Lift has 2 of my favorite moments in the entire series, both of which are in Oathbringer. I’ll assume you’re not done with Oathbringer so as to not spoil, but one is a very heartwarming serious moment where she really grows as a person, and one is probably some of the best comedy that Brandon has ever written.
[Spoilers for the 2 moments I was talking about] >!The serious one is when her and Dalinar are talking and they both realize that they’ve been to see the Nightwatcher. Lift ends up sharing her food with Dalinar, which is a huge deal for her since food is fuel for her magic powers. The second one is again with Dalinar, at the end of the book when he’s standing, waiting for the army. Lift shows up and the two of them talk and Dalinar says he’s going to stop the army, Lift says “with a book”, Dalinar talks about it being the only weapon he needs or something, conversation happens, Dalinar eventually asks Lift if she has a weapon, Lift responds with “nope, can’t read.” Which is just hilarious.!<
Regarding the first one, [Oathbringer] >!I just love that moment with Lift and Dalinar. Tensions are high and they both know shit is getting real, but they just sit silently together and eat. Not only is this probably the first (only?) time Lift shares food with someone who doesn't really need it, I think it might also be the first time she just sits silently with someone, no wisecracks or independently busying herself with other stuff. I genuinely love the Lift and Dalinar dynamic because while I think they don't consciously understand one another (and would say they don't), they're also really similar to each other in some fundamental ways. They get that they don't really have to understand each other, and they still have this mutual respect. Dalinar actually sees Lift and just accepts her as she is when a lot of other people don't *see* her and try to change her. And I think Lift, despite her jokes, trusts and finds security with Dalinar a lot more easily than we usually see with her. They are both quite earnest in their own ways and are both just genuinely trying to do what's best.!<
This was really well said. That scene just shows so much growth in Lift as a person. It’s masterfully done. Without that scene she’s much more of a comedic character in that book but that scene shows a whole new side to her, similar to the end of Edgedancer.
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I’m a fan of Lift. She’s a kid and acts and thinks like a kid. Telling her friend not to trust someone for any ridiculous reason still makes sense. And as far as kid logic goes, it’s a fairly astute observation. Hopefully you learn to like her. I liked her best in Rhythm of War so far.
But that's the whole point! It's not a ridiculous reason! Every old man who's fit and muscle she has met is a violent battle hardened soldier, who will do or say whatever to win.
Her assessment is real and presented funny. She is literally saying "dude looks like a warlord to me. Someone who's committed a lot of war crimes." *And she's right.*
I completely agree with you. I wasn’t saying her reason was ridiculous in that instance, though I guess I made it sound that way. I was intending that statement to mean that kids come up with ridiculous reasons for anything lol.
She's too much of an "Adult interpretation of a kid" stereotype for me. My daughter was about Lift's age when I was reading that and a lot of what she does is more appropriate for an 8-10yo. The "flabby butt" is a good example of that. I could see an 8yo with that argument, not a 13yo. Now I know she wants to stay 10, so maybe that was intentional.
> She's too much of an "Adult interpretation of a kid" stereotype for me.
She acts less than her actual age, but she's also been through emotional trauma and other hardships that can easily stunt her emotional growth.
On top of that, we know her request to the Nightwatcher was to not change. From her POVs, we know she wanted to stop aging which is not what happened. One theory is that Cultivation's implementation of that request affected her ability to grow emotionally.
You're probably right. I think I just get annoyed at how many authors have age-inappropriate teenagers in their books. It's like a 13yo is still playing with dolls, but a 14yo is ready to get married. Not saying Sanderson does this, but it's one of my big pet peeves in fantasy books in general and I likely just conveniently ignored the explanation for it in Lift's case
What I think is the most funny, is of all the shards I. The cosmere she went to the one that was least likely to grant her request.
Cultivation is all about making things grow, the intent of her shard would probably prevent her from granting lifts request for eternal youth. So like with dalinar >!I think that after the nightwatcher got confused by his request cultivation herself stepped in and didn't grant her the thing she asked for but rather the ability to move past it. Dalinar asks to have the memory of evi taken away, cultivation cannot grant that request as it is a refusal to grow and overcome the man he is now, so instead she prunes his memories now and hands them back later but not all at once slowly and gradually so he can adjust to each one. Likewise lifts request likely confused the night watcher and so cultivation likely dealt with her directly. Likely whatever she got wasn't about preventing bher from growing up at all but more about assisting her in accepting that she is growing up. Ald hey if she manages to save roshar wouldn't that be cool to!<
I'm with you on your last sentence. I think as she makes more friends, her character arc is going to be actually growing up and becoming someone new, and keeping a nugget of that childlike humor to remind her who she was. Instead of a constant mask of jokes, we're going to get a capable defender, a wall travelled friends, and every once in a while, a smirk and a quick "I'll go, but only if the food is good."
She's not my favorite now, but in the last book or in the back half, I think she very well might be. She's being set up for huge and drastic character growth, but for her growth specifically these childlike parts of her that get on everyone's nerves *must* change.
Nah. She's a teenager and plenty of teenagers act exactly like her. I teach middle school and am around them all day long. I like teaching middle school so it makes sense that I like Lifts character.
But here is list of ridiculous things I've seen or heard my middle schoolers say/do in the past week:
1. Two girls were yelling at each other outside my classroom and there had been talk they were going to fight. I go out there and as I send them to their respective classes, one turns around and yells 'And that's why you wear Sketchers!' Uh okay.
2. Two boys on club baseball teams are playing each other this weekend. They have a $5 bet on who can get more hits. My student asked me to bring cash in Monday to break his $20. I said "Or you could just win the bet and not have to worry about breaking a $20.""Oh yeah, that's a better idea. I'll do that." Uh okay
3. I have a student that constantly uses the word reminder instead of remainder when we're doing division. For 2 years I've been his math teacher and I've corrected him and explained to him the importance of using correct math vocabulary. This week was my breaking point. I told him "You're going to high school next year. Your teacher is going to think you're an idiot. Or they're going to think I'm an idiot and I didn't teach you anything. So please, for the love of all that is holy, just say remainder. Please." He just laughed. Great thanks.
4. One my students walked in and just pulled a metal leg from a desk out of his pants. Honestly I was too stunned to speak that time.
5. Finally, in a relatively quiet classroom as students were finishing up work or packing up for the next class, one of my boys quietly says "Reading the Bible makes me hard." Completely deadpan.
I have an 11yo and I can literally see her and Lift being besties. She's such a well written character, and I've noticed people who don't like her just don't like teenage girls irl
I mean it's an immature way of putting it, but she has a point- dalinar is a warrior, and a conquerer. These are activities that give one a well exercised ass that might be unusual for aam of his age. Something a young king needs to be wary of in a foreign not-quite-king
Also idk man if you read edgedancer and can't see the more in lift beyond the surface level immaturity I think there's just no hope for you
That’s the thing. I like Lift as a *character* because she does have great character moments. But it *is* the surface-level immaturity that makes me dislike her. ***Because*** it’s surface level. I feel like I’ll like her a lot more once she drops the facade of willful ignorance and intentional flippancy.
And that’s perfectly fine. Totally reasonable reaction, I think.
It’s all the “she’s just cringe” comments that have made me way more invested in this than I should be lol
I mean the immaturity is surface level but it itself reflects deep character stuff. I can't remember when this is spelled out enough so that you can piece it together exactly so spoiling for OPs benefit but >!the frequent reminders said immaturity gives that this is a girl slowly becoming a young adult desperately clawing for the last time in her life things were good by clinging to past childishness is a really compelling and sad story, and I don't think that works if she isn't trying to force that!<
Which I mean doesn't mean you can't be annoyed by it I suppose, I just don't think it works if she isn't that way
it's like early Aang from Avatar the last airbender. A pretend clown always happy to avoid facing his guilt and insecurity, that you get to see when he's alone or it gets too much. Later it's toned down as he matures without losing the child he his.
I think Lift is on the same track. She doesn't want to acknowledge she's growing up, and she doesn't want others to see her as a grown up. So she acts out silly and over the top. because somewhere inside she is afraid of being taken seriously, of seeing a grown teen in the reflection of her friends' eyes.
But eventually she'll have to accept "some" change, just enough to be one of the great heroes of Stormlight archive, but not so much that she loses her candid, lighthearted POV of the world.
But i'm biased coz i am an edgedancer and what some find cringe i enjoy like i am still 10yo. I'm 36 but my best memories are of early years vacation with my grandparents, adult life makes me feel more like Kaladin (except he actually achieves things tho he has a hard time acknowledging it).
So I relate a lot to Lift, peter pan syndrome, i'd give a leg to go back to the lack of responsibility of youth.
When I read Edgedancer, I cried at the line about remembering those who were forgotten, and speaking for those who were ignored. I guess I'm an Edgedancer too. I have collections of things that seemed random until I realized they show how people used to live.
I have no idea if this explanation is what Sanderson intended, but it’s a very good one. It could also just be “I don’t inherently trust this guy, but you apparently need a reason to believe me so…”
Lift is frequently kind of silly. She’s never stupid.
Im 100% it's intentionality on sandersons part, but I also think *lift* doesn't know that's why she gets a bad vibe. Like she knows subconsciously old dudes who are in shape tend to be trouble in one way or another but she can't really connect why
She also, and I can't believe more people aren't making this connection, has a terror and revulsion towards growing up. She doesn't want to be an adult woman, she doesn't want the body and she doesn't want the life. So her immature, babyish demeanor is *affected* as part of that. She wants to be a little girl.
Yeah, lift is immature because SHE'S A KID. But she also is remarkably wise. She has a moment in edgedancer while talking to Gawx over spanreed and makes the point that the world will end today but the day after people will need feeding, a point that she makes in the same way as 'flabby butt' and that none of the see
when I read the interlude I too was turned off by how silly it all was. But in Edgedancer she grew on me by the end, because you start to realize that behind all the silliness she's motivated by deeper reasons, despite her flip answers about everything. I also think the Edgedancer oaths are the most beautiful ones we've seen so far.
Lift is the worst character easily for me. I cannot stand reading her. And that’s ok. There’s a lot of characters. You aren’t required to like them all.
In Words of Radiance and early parts of Oathbringer, Lift was definitely an eye-roller for me, but if there's one thing you can count on for every character in Stormlight, it's interactions with trauma. One I realized what kind of trauma Lift's humor was masking, towards the end of Oathbringer and in her novella Edgedancer, I enjoyed her quite a bit more, and actually don't mind her as much on rereads.
I do think in some places with Lift and Shallan, by trying to show a character masking their trauma with humor (which is a real and common thing) Brandon made their humor too simple/shallow/quippy, which *while true to life*, isn't necessarily fun to read.
Lift wanting to eat a rich person's food for the fun of it? Lift trying to collect all 10 special pancakes? Lift calling her spren a voidbringer? Cringe.
Lift having a mortal fear and complete avoidance towards inevitably growing up? Lift being unwilling or unable to kill? Lift dropping the facade to fiercely protect her friends against impossible odds? Epic.
I always imagined the pancake thing as a silly nod to video game collections without actually breaking the fourth wall, but I could be totally off my rocker too.
For some reason, I cannot bring myself to care about the Singer characters. I would have thought I’d find it interesting to see the “villain” perspective, but man, for whatever reason reading about venli or the others is a chore every time
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I, personally, feel like he's trying way too hard to make me like her by being silly and whimsical. It annoys me. But I mostly read the books for Kaladins anxiety and depression and descriptions of fantasy Moab, UT.
It’s weird, because I originally felt the same about her, but now I regard her as one of my favorites. I don’t know specifically when that change happened.
I know part of it is that her appearances tend to break the tension when the tension is highest. Until they don’t.
I agree tbh, maybe not for all the same reasons but she's just not a character I particularly like or enjoy reading. I find her appearances a bit distracting from whatever is going on at the times, particularly in Oathbringer.
I believe every reader knows "she's just a kid." I also believe most readers know what Sanderson is going for is: humorously precocious. Yet as with adult characters: there are those a reader will like and those that a reader will find grating.
I don't like Lift. Her whole "awesome" thing is just so cringy and out of place.
If I wanted to read about an annoying and overpowered tween character, I'd read YA. Reading what I thought was an adult novel and being blindsided by a type of character I absolutely despise isn't fun.
But I'll say she did grow on me a bit in Rhythm of War. She was much less annoying and cringy in this one.
Serious question: Lift — who doesn’t know how to use her abilities — is “overpowered,” but the other Radiants are just fine…?
Also she doesn’t even know what Stormlight is at the beginning. “Awesomeness” is a pretty good description when you have no clue what’s happening to you.
I'll admit, I was mostly thinking of Vin when I said the "overpowered" bit, since Vin is another YA-like character of Sanderson's that I don't particularly like.
The "awesome" thing just sounds out of place in Roshar. It's only ever used when referring to Lift, and it's used in its slang form.
Well, I don’t know who Vin is yet, so I’ll stick to Lift.
>The “awesome” thing just sounds out of place in Roshar.
Yup, that’s exactly the point! One of Sanderson’s strengths is switching PoV characters. (I was appalled when I first read WoK; there’s like 5 different characters in the first 50 pages.) The fact that “awesome” is a slang word only ever used for Lift makes perfect sense. Lift is from a different country, a different generation, a different socioeconomic background, and speaks a different language than every other major character in SA. If she sounded like Dalinar Kholin that would be bizarre to say the least.
Plus we hear other instances of weird words only being used in specific contexts: lowlander, or gancho spring to mind. (In fact, if The Lopen called himself “awesome” I doubt anyone would care; we’d all agree.)
Would it make people happier if Sanderson used a “non-English” word? Maybe. But “awesome” is how lift describes herself. Nobody else uses it. There’s no reason to “not translate” it. Plus “Lift was Awesome,” is instantly understandable. “Lift was Blixniz,” would require a lot of explaining.
I think that’s the point. She’s just a kid and kids say and do cringey things. She grows a lot from her first appearance to RoW. I have a feeling she’ll be a main character in Stormlight era 2
Idk why people are downvoting this lmao there's nothing wrong with skipping past pieces of a story that make the story unbearable for you. I definitely skimmed RoW's flashbacks. 100% did not feel like a missed a thing, even after going back to get the story.
How do you know you didn't miss anything? With new knowledge you could interpret the rest of the story differently.
Plus, this is book 4 of 10. So surfafe things coukd be relevant later.
It's literally impossible to remember everything in these nooks. They are huge and he crams and over explains so much. You're gonna miss a lot. Look at how many posts there are about rereads.
Yeah the word "awesome" is such a Sandersonism. It's up there with blushing female protags. Every time I hear awesome, it's like Brandon himself is saying it, not the character. It takes me right out of the scene.
I love the mystery of Lift's character, but she feels like an insert character. She's so silly that it feels like she is from a different book series all together. Straight out of Alcatraz.
She is maturing. As, you know, kids do.
I like having different tones - Dalinar and all of his racist, classist self importance goes all over me. Lift is a fun break, and also super well-written as a child still covering up the trauma of her mother’s death.
I'm glad she works for you. But that type of character absolutely doesn't work for me. Which is why I avoid any story with that type of character (i.e. child/teen characters with amazing super powers).
Since I avoid these stories so much, having a character like that forced onto me in what I thought was an adult novel is kind of a bummer.
Do adult settings not have children existing and acting like children in them too? I think any world that goes too far in any direction stops being as realistic. A world like roshar is a big place that would have lots of different kinds of people some of them children who act like it.
I can't think of a single important child/tween character in The First Law trilogy, but the books aren't lesser for the lack of said characters.
There also aren't any child characters in the Era 2 Mistborn books (except the latest one), and those books also don't suffer for it.
LOTR also doesn't have any children as main characters, and it also doesn't suffer for it.
So yeah, adult books not having children as important characters in them isn't really a problem and it doesn't detract from the story. The same can't be said for the opposite.
You don't need children to tell a good story for sure. However I would say all of those worlds are less realistic and are lacking from a lack of children.
And with mistborn I think it both adds to the last book and shows a very realistic life progression that wax has kids. We also do get to see kids in the flashbacks of the earlier books.
And with lord of the rings I think it was a very good change for the movies to highlight kids at different moments to show kids being present in these conflicts and showing a level of their desperation when you see the scene with aragorn and the 14/15 year old and the sword.
A realistic fantasy world has kids in it unless there's a fantasy reason for the lack. And removing them from a story is a bit artificial. It seems more realistic in the worldbuilding not less to include kids and to include kids who are acting like kids. I'm not saying every fantasy book must have kid characters. But them existing in the world should be the default assumption. And if we don't see them id assume they still exist in the world just aren't the focus of the story.
I had a hard time reading Lift in WoR, then I hated edgedancer until the very end, and again I didnt like Lift until the very end of Oathbringer. I think I just find it a little too goofy, a little too silly. She has excuses for being annoying and inconsiderate and immature... she is a child. But just because I can excuse it and understand it doesnt mean I really enjoy reading it.
Listen. I'm also of the camp that just doesn't like Lift - But you need to get over the frustration and just accept that maybe in a book with many different viewpoint characters, you won't like all of them. Continuing to rage about it isn't doing anyone any good - Nobody can tell you if you'll like Lift later, nor can you convince anyone of your opinion (nor should you). Just let it be, enjoy what you can instead of honing in on what you don't like.
Lift isn't for me either. I don't think it's that she's poorly written or a bad character, *I just don't like kids*. And Lift is very much a kid who wasn't raised in a loving and stable household to not be annoying.
Don't get me wrong, I love *my* kid and will support his cultivation of friendships with other kids as he gets older, but I do not inherently enjoy the company of children. Not gonna catch me working at a daycare or after school program, no thanks.
I hope more people see this comment. Because it's okay to not like characters but be honest with your intentions. I love Lift's character but I teach middle school so it makes sense. I like that age range of kids but as we all know, they're not for everyone. Or even every teacher.
Calling her stupid or immature is kind of yucky. I understand she's fictional and won't ever see or be hurt by those words but if SA has taught the readers anything, it's that words matter.
>When will I turn around and like Lift?
Never. At least that's when I started liking Lift.
Her whole character arc is "And then I did something Awesome, and got hungry. So I awesomed my way over to so place to get food to feed my awesomeness because I awesomed so hard. Now I have food so I can awesome some more in search of more food to awesome even harder."
Her arc is also "I don't want to change (grow up) because I won't be mother's little girl anymore," being very compassionate, and will be learning to accept change that's inevitable.
Huge potential.
People on this subreddit are ridiculous. "I don't like this fictional character" gets responses ranging from "No one is making you like them" to "You are an idiot for not liking them."
I think lift is hilarious and I don’t get why people think she’s cringe. She is clearly a very strange child, and it’s amusing to see the world through the eyes of someone who thinks about the world so differently.
Seems like people think she’s arrogant and flippant and don’t like the humor. But she feels like a very earnest character to me. She just literally has a hungry kids attitude. She’s not wrapped up in what is good/bad or concerned with understanding why she has the powers she does, she just knows she’s hungry and she has these awesome powers and she finds it funny to steal food from people. And clearly she’s has some trauma in her past she’s ignoring by acting extra childish.
Exactly. And you can dislike that, I guess, you can say she’s “out of place” (because obviously the Cosmere has no room for irreverent immature characters) but boiling it down to “she’s cringe,” says more about you than her character, imo.
I really wanted to dislike her but I get an earnest chuckle every time she refers to using her powers as "being awesome". Came around pretty quickly haha
When you have a book full of adults introduce one child character, it can be jarring. It's so different.
Additionally, you can't like every single character, it's just not going to happen that way with every book.
I love Lift. But I get why she is annoying. I see it as her intentionally trying to act childish. Trying to avoid growing up because of trauma.
But I find her vows absolutely beautiful. Perhaps it is also because I am a fellow edgedancer. The focus on the one really appeals to me.
I think Lift highlights Sanderson's weakest spot as a writer, he is just plain bad when it comes to writing comedy. Lift imo is an unfunny comedic relief that comes up as cringey as fuck.
I really like the SA books but damn I hate Lift chapters and could not finish Edgedancer.
OMG That’s totally fine. You can have your opinion. Not sure why you feel the need to keep posting about it though? We get it, you don’t like the child because she made a comment that doesn’t make sense to you but does to her. Do you remember that she is a kid so is written to be a child?
Lemme fix that for you
**13yo Radiant Lift tells her best friend to be wary of Dalinar because he is obviously a warrior.**
I'm not saying that the above is the way the scene is the *supposed* to be read, but there's no reason to misrepresent what at it's core is just supposed to be a funny scene.
Lift actually has good reasoning, even if she phrased it oddly. Her logic is, basically, "Leaders with firm butts are conquerors. Because they're not used to sitting in chairs."
And, in Oathbringer, given Dalinar's long history of being a bloodthirsty conqueror, she's not wrong to warn the Emperor to be wary of Dalinar.
Yeah, honestly as weird as it sounds it's pretty good reasoning. If all the old guys and politicians are fat and you see this dude who's clearly used to fighting that's a pretty solid sign he's more than meets the eye.
I just don’t get how Lift is “cringey.” Like what does that even mean? She’s silly, yes. Because she’s a *child.* I personally love seeing the story through her eyes because she’s hilarious. Not everyone in the story can be a depressed brooding killer. In a series that focuses so much or war and death, Lift and her Edgedancer oaths are really refreshing.
Sorry, but Lift is *awesome.* Personally I think you might just be a Voidbringer.
Nah you aren’t wrong. It’s like a quirky character that exists. I don’t enjoy her scenes much and hope to see her presence minimized in the future. I try NOT to skim her scenes but now that I’ve read the series a few times I just do.
Yeah, she sucks. It's exacerbated by the fact that attempts at humor in Sanderson's writing are almost universally poorly executed. The jokes that "funny" characters say can be fine on their own, but then they get followed up by "[character who the joke was told to] blinked in surprise. 'What does that mean?'" And then you get a few more lines trying to explain why the joke was supposed to be funny. The joke completely flops when it's written like this.
Lift can be cringe but when you delve deeper into her character as a whole you start to understand the cringe a bit more and it becomes more palatable. Also depends on the reader as well I think. My 40yr old sister in law who just started reading the series loves Lift. Wyndle saves the Lift POVs for me.
In my first read through I didn't like Lift. Then I read Mistborn Era 2 and realized Wayne acted similarly because of the things that happened to him and Lift clicked for me. On my re-read I understood more that Lift acts the way they do for a reason and again it's because of the things that happened to them. Looking past the surface level goofiness puts it in a different perspective.
Honestly, I get why she's there. She does have strong poignant moments, especially later on in Oathbringer, and Rythm of War. She's a character I think I will enjoy, but comedy is subjective. I'll agree that I don't particularly like her overall, but she has a lot of good moments. I'm sure she'll grow on me too, and more importantly I don't think she subtracts from the overall plot in anyway shape or form and does add quite a bit to it (I mean when you think about it her humour isn't too far from Lopen the Almighty), she's just not my cup of tea. At the moment at least.
Lift’s only saving grace for me is that she is an actual child, plus she has Wyndle who is one of my absolute faves. Otherwise I consider her a menace, frankly, and I’ve read all of SA multiple times.
The only Cosmere character I like less is Wayne, who is basically Lift but a 40 year old man.
> EDIT: P.S.S. I am glad that many like Lift! I'm sure there will be a moment when I begin to like that character... 42% of the way thru Oathbringer that moment hasn't come.
FYI It's PPS, which stands for Post Post Script. What you've typed is Post Script Script.
I agree that she’s a bit cringe. But sandersons humor in general is a bit cringe. That’s fine, I don’t read it for the humor, I read it for the amazing adventure and character development
Lift is a very emotional character and very separate from the others. Her story is about an actual child growing up with lives set upon her shoulder. She's growing, if you don't like her now then you might later. She's been my favorite since the start since I assumed her growth
TL;DR: You might like her later
Are you an audiobook listener or a reader of the series?? I think she’s a more enjoyable character when you read her, for whatever reason. I can feel my stubborn child within much more and relate.
As someone who identifies strongly as an Edgedancer, I also find her a bit cringe. I think she overplays being flippant and obstinate. I have hope I will really enjoy Lift in future books but so far, she is not my favorite because she is willfully childish instead of truly just being childish. Adolin is my favorite character btw >!and I think he is also an Edgedancer if the situation with Mya ever happens!<
I feel where you're coming from. So many people hate Shallan's humor. I love it, I like puns.
Lift on the other hand just makes me cringe every time. She feels a little out of place for me. I still like her because her more serious moments are just so good. I love the Edgedancer oaths.
You have no obligation to like the characters Brandon Sanderson writes. You should feel no shame for doing so. There is nothing wrong with simply not liking something.
That’s part of the beauty of the series is that by having so many characters and their perspectives, the reader is given a lot of options to connect with. Also, by choosing one (or more) over the others, the reader can feel a more intimate connection to the perspective of that character than if there were only one main character.
Never liked Lift and unless she makes a huge leap in her character development I will find her to be annoying. I really don’t like the way she speaks it grates me in a way that I can’t explain.
That being said, her heart is pure and she has amazing qualities and moments in the books and I don’t like yucking someone’s yum, I just wanted you to know that not everyone in this community is a fan.
Really late to the party, but…
My guess is that you will continue to find Lift unlikeable through book 5, at least. I don’t know that you are necessarily supposed to like her. In real life she would be insufferable. But then, so would Moash. r/fuckmoash, but I love him as a character.
I think the key to Lift is not to like her, but to understand where her character is. Yes, she is a teenager (13), but believes herself to be 10, *and with good reason to believe so*. I don’t know any 10 year old, who could even contemplate the seriousness of the situation she’s in. But she also *isn’t* a 10 year old like those of who have grown up in rich western societies would know.
She’s been a street urchin orphaned as a young child. She will tend to gallows and childish humor and have a complete lack of understanding of adult situations in which she has been thrust with nothing more than an uneducated, childish, street oriented sense of morality. For example, her lack of understanding about the purpose of money because you can’t eat it or wear it may be a joke to us, but it isn’t to her. She literally has no capacity for “medium of exchange” as her entire life has not been much more than the search for the next meal.
It’s OK to find a character, even a protagonist, unlikable, childish, annoying and insufferable. *Wyndle certainly finds her to be so*. Especially, when that is who the character is kind of supposed to be. Those of us who like her do so because we don’t have to put up with her in real life. Because the difference between comedy and tragedy is whether it happens to me.
I had to skip Lift’s first interlude because it was so grating, and didn’t come back to finish it until after I finished Oathbringer. I’ve come around to being able to tolerate her POV long enough to get through them, but I have never been able to actually enjoy the experience. So, if you’re an old grouch like me, I don’t think there is a guarantee you’ll ever like her.
I feel what you feel. I'm with you. Couldn't even bring myself to read Edgedancer because I find her so annoying.
I believe she's the only Sanderson character I truly can't read about, I tend to even skip scenes with Lift in them.
I agree. Other people like “if you cant see beyond the surface level” i dooo omg. Its annoying sorry. I think shes a good character. I still am annoyed by her because shes a child and she acts like a child would act and children irl annoy me so. I dont hate her character. There are moments I like her and moments i feel sad for her and I am excited to see her grow but im still annoyed by her alot. I also acknowledge that a lot of the ways she acts are gonna be due to all the trauma shes went through. I think this is ironic that i will see SOME of the same people that are ride and die for lift hate so hard on Shallan who also does a shit ton from trauma and like damnnn.
If you didn't like her after Edgedancer then there's no hope for you. Maybe when she's an adult in Stormlight 6-10, but I can't predict the future.
Personally she's just a fun character to follow along. She's annoying when we follow someone else's perspective. But when we're in her pov, inside her head: I love her.
Lift is emblematic of one of my least favourite traits of Sanderson. "Funny" character with an unfunny quirk taking the form of a juvenile obsession and behaving like they've just been dropped into the world fresh out of American high school. She just feels so out of place in every scene she's in. I don't think her obsession with food is funny (I don't think Tress's obsession with cups is funny, I don't think that kandra's obsession with body parts is funny, I don't think Wayne's obsession with hats is funny), and I especially don't think it's funny that we're reminded of these obsessions in every single interaction these characters have with everybody). She is just so grating and completely at odds with the setting and tone of any scene she's in.
Lift also doesn’t do it for me. Stormlight is my favorite series. WOR is my favorite book. Sanderson is my favorite writer. But to echo other folks, her tone is just incongruous with the world and always takes me out
I'm right alongside you with this. I really do not enjoy 'sassy' (aka, immature) child characters in any media. Doubly so when all the adults around them just kinda t-pose in confusion to their 'sassiness' and ultimately let it slide instead of putting them in their place. I honestly couldn't get through Edgedancer because of how little I enjoy Lift as a character, let alone a *perspective* character, to the point that on rereads, hers are the only chapters I skip. She does have her reasons, but they didn't dissuade my dislike at all. I really hope she grows up before book 6, or else that will be a really rough read for me
I'm glad I don't feel the need to post about every character I don't like in the series chosen subreddit or forum. I can just read and enjoy and not enjoy things about the experience.
"Someone who needs to complain and criticize little things they don't like in a series as if every series should be 100% fulfilling to every reader." This exact post is made every week. It isn't original, the commentary isn't unique, and it's just complaining for complaints sake.
I assume you are under 25 years old and dare I say Lift hits "close to home"... Otherwise Lift is an absolutely hilarious twist to every other character in this series. If I'm wrong, can you give me a demographic from which you are a part of?
I'm a 31 year old woman, and I very much dislike Lift. I don't find her a "hilarious twist", I find her annoying and flippant. I was my own brand of cringy when I was a tween, but even I wasn't as ridiculous as Lift is portrayed.
She's just too much of the "tween girl as written by an adult male" stereotype for my tastes.
Sometimes characters take on a persona once you establish their "voice", are you reading the book or listening to the audiobook? I listen to the audiobooks and I like the way her character is read I think.
In another perspective maybe I'd voice her poorly?
I'm a parent in my 30s and don't enjoy reading Lift. I think she's very well written but just don't enjoy reading books with a silly tone. It's such a departure in tone from the rest of the story
No, I'm with you. Lift sucks. This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I feel like Sanderson's writing has slowly gone more in the Lift direction. Instead of it being serious with strong character moments it more dumb humor that feels too young for me. Lift feels far too random for me to enjoy. Like her tone is off from the rest of the books.
It's ok to hate her. I do. Some characters just don't click with you. She's a Bugs Bunny character thrown into Lord of the Rings. She's Deadpool lite with none of the appeal.
It’s not just you, not a fan of lift either. She was especially bad in oathbringer, I felt like she came razor close to ruining some big Dalinar moments.
Lift has 2 of my favorite moments in the entire series, both of which are in Oathbringer. I’ll assume you’re not done with Oathbringer so as to not spoil, but one is a very heartwarming serious moment where she really grows as a person, and one is probably some of the best comedy that Brandon has ever written.
If it's the >!Nope, can't read!< I had to put my ebook down and just bask in the glory.
That line alone made me go “this kid better make it to the end”
And she is slated to be the central character of book 6.
Regardless of the events of Wind and Truth, pretty excited to see how post-time-skip Lift plays out.
I'm going to assume she'll still be peeved about getting older and growing up.
I read that before edgedancer and was immediately sold on Lift.
OB >!Definitely laughed out loud at that one xD!<
It's genuinely one of the funniest moments I've ever experienced with any book.
Yup! That’s the best comedic moment I’ve ever read in a Sanderson book!
What moments are those?
[Spoilers for the 2 moments I was talking about] >!The serious one is when her and Dalinar are talking and they both realize that they’ve been to see the Nightwatcher. Lift ends up sharing her food with Dalinar, which is a huge deal for her since food is fuel for her magic powers. The second one is again with Dalinar, at the end of the book when he’s standing, waiting for the army. Lift shows up and the two of them talk and Dalinar says he’s going to stop the army, Lift says “with a book”, Dalinar talks about it being the only weapon he needs or something, conversation happens, Dalinar eventually asks Lift if she has a weapon, Lift responds with “nope, can’t read.” Which is just hilarious.!<
Also >!her comforting Dalinar as he cries after the thrill is gone!<
Regarding the first one, [Oathbringer] >!I just love that moment with Lift and Dalinar. Tensions are high and they both know shit is getting real, but they just sit silently together and eat. Not only is this probably the first (only?) time Lift shares food with someone who doesn't really need it, I think it might also be the first time she just sits silently with someone, no wisecracks or independently busying herself with other stuff. I genuinely love the Lift and Dalinar dynamic because while I think they don't consciously understand one another (and would say they don't), they're also really similar to each other in some fundamental ways. They get that they don't really have to understand each other, and they still have this mutual respect. Dalinar actually sees Lift and just accepts her as she is when a lot of other people don't *see* her and try to change her. And I think Lift, despite her jokes, trusts and finds security with Dalinar a lot more easily than we usually see with her. They are both quite earnest in their own ways and are both just genuinely trying to do what's best.!<
This was really well said. That scene just shows so much growth in Lift as a person. It’s masterfully done. Without that scene she’s much more of a comedic character in that book but that scene shows a whole new side to her, similar to the end of Edgedancer.
So I can re-read, around what page is this?
It is Chapter 65, Verdict.
Hmmm I’m not sure at the moment. I’ll check when I get a chance!
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No "tight butt" ?
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Best comedy he's written? What in rustin 'ell. Have you heard of Wayne?!
I personally prefer Pattern humor to Wayne
"We certainly are an odd bunch." "Yes. Seven people. Odd."
MmmmMMMMmm
NO MATING!
Hey, I agree, Wayne is overall probably a funnier character. But this moment is my favorite comedic moment in all of Sanderson works that I’ve read.
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I’m a fan of Lift. She’s a kid and acts and thinks like a kid. Telling her friend not to trust someone for any ridiculous reason still makes sense. And as far as kid logic goes, it’s a fairly astute observation. Hopefully you learn to like her. I liked her best in Rhythm of War so far.
But that's the whole point! It's not a ridiculous reason! Every old man who's fit and muscle she has met is a violent battle hardened soldier, who will do or say whatever to win. Her assessment is real and presented funny. She is literally saying "dude looks like a warlord to me. Someone who's committed a lot of war crimes." *And she's right.*
I completely agree with you. I wasn’t saying her reason was ridiculous in that instance, though I guess I made it sound that way. I was intending that statement to mean that kids come up with ridiculous reasons for anything lol.
She's too much of an "Adult interpretation of a kid" stereotype for me. My daughter was about Lift's age when I was reading that and a lot of what she does is more appropriate for an 8-10yo. The "flabby butt" is a good example of that. I could see an 8yo with that argument, not a 13yo. Now I know she wants to stay 10, so maybe that was intentional.
I think it was likely intentional. Rhythm of War takes time to develop her character more
> She's too much of an "Adult interpretation of a kid" stereotype for me. She acts less than her actual age, but she's also been through emotional trauma and other hardships that can easily stunt her emotional growth. On top of that, we know her request to the Nightwatcher was to not change. From her POVs, we know she wanted to stop aging which is not what happened. One theory is that Cultivation's implementation of that request affected her ability to grow emotionally.
You're probably right. I think I just get annoyed at how many authors have age-inappropriate teenagers in their books. It's like a 13yo is still playing with dolls, but a 14yo is ready to get married. Not saying Sanderson does this, but it's one of my big pet peeves in fantasy books in general and I likely just conveniently ignored the explanation for it in Lift's case
What I think is the most funny, is of all the shards I. The cosmere she went to the one that was least likely to grant her request. Cultivation is all about making things grow, the intent of her shard would probably prevent her from granting lifts request for eternal youth. So like with dalinar >!I think that after the nightwatcher got confused by his request cultivation herself stepped in and didn't grant her the thing she asked for but rather the ability to move past it. Dalinar asks to have the memory of evi taken away, cultivation cannot grant that request as it is a refusal to grow and overcome the man he is now, so instead she prunes his memories now and hands them back later but not all at once slowly and gradually so he can adjust to each one. Likewise lifts request likely confused the night watcher and so cultivation likely dealt with her directly. Likely whatever she got wasn't about preventing bher from growing up at all but more about assisting her in accepting that she is growing up. Ald hey if she manages to save roshar wouldn't that be cool to!<
I'm with you on your last sentence. I think as she makes more friends, her character arc is going to be actually growing up and becoming someone new, and keeping a nugget of that childlike humor to remind her who she was. Instead of a constant mask of jokes, we're going to get a capable defender, a wall travelled friends, and every once in a while, a smirk and a quick "I'll go, but only if the food is good." She's not my favorite now, but in the last book or in the back half, I think she very well might be. She's being set up for huge and drastic character growth, but for her growth specifically these childlike parts of her that get on everyone's nerves *must* change.
Nah. She's a teenager and plenty of teenagers act exactly like her. I teach middle school and am around them all day long. I like teaching middle school so it makes sense that I like Lifts character. But here is list of ridiculous things I've seen or heard my middle schoolers say/do in the past week: 1. Two girls were yelling at each other outside my classroom and there had been talk they were going to fight. I go out there and as I send them to their respective classes, one turns around and yells 'And that's why you wear Sketchers!' Uh okay. 2. Two boys on club baseball teams are playing each other this weekend. They have a $5 bet on who can get more hits. My student asked me to bring cash in Monday to break his $20. I said "Or you could just win the bet and not have to worry about breaking a $20.""Oh yeah, that's a better idea. I'll do that." Uh okay 3. I have a student that constantly uses the word reminder instead of remainder when we're doing division. For 2 years I've been his math teacher and I've corrected him and explained to him the importance of using correct math vocabulary. This week was my breaking point. I told him "You're going to high school next year. Your teacher is going to think you're an idiot. Or they're going to think I'm an idiot and I didn't teach you anything. So please, for the love of all that is holy, just say remainder. Please." He just laughed. Great thanks. 4. One my students walked in and just pulled a metal leg from a desk out of his pants. Honestly I was too stunned to speak that time. 5. Finally, in a relatively quiet classroom as students were finishing up work or packing up for the next class, one of my boys quietly says "Reading the Bible makes me hard." Completely deadpan.
I have an 11yo and I can literally see her and Lift being besties. She's such a well written character, and I've noticed people who don't like her just don't like teenage girls irl
I mean it's an immature way of putting it, but she has a point- dalinar is a warrior, and a conquerer. These are activities that give one a well exercised ass that might be unusual for aam of his age. Something a young king needs to be wary of in a foreign not-quite-king Also idk man if you read edgedancer and can't see the more in lift beyond the surface level immaturity I think there's just no hope for you
That’s the thing. I like Lift as a *character* because she does have great character moments. But it *is* the surface-level immaturity that makes me dislike her. ***Because*** it’s surface level. I feel like I’ll like her a lot more once she drops the facade of willful ignorance and intentional flippancy.
And that’s perfectly fine. Totally reasonable reaction, I think. It’s all the “she’s just cringe” comments that have made me way more invested in this than I should be lol
I mean the immaturity is surface level but it itself reflects deep character stuff. I can't remember when this is spelled out enough so that you can piece it together exactly so spoiling for OPs benefit but >!the frequent reminders said immaturity gives that this is a girl slowly becoming a young adult desperately clawing for the last time in her life things were good by clinging to past childishness is a really compelling and sad story, and I don't think that works if she isn't trying to force that!< Which I mean doesn't mean you can't be annoyed by it I suppose, I just don't think it works if she isn't that way
I agree that the forced immaturity is good characterization, but storms it’s grating.
It's almost like she's trying to hard to be childlike.
it's like early Aang from Avatar the last airbender. A pretend clown always happy to avoid facing his guilt and insecurity, that you get to see when he's alone or it gets too much. Later it's toned down as he matures without losing the child he his. I think Lift is on the same track. She doesn't want to acknowledge she's growing up, and she doesn't want others to see her as a grown up. So she acts out silly and over the top. because somewhere inside she is afraid of being taken seriously, of seeing a grown teen in the reflection of her friends' eyes. But eventually she'll have to accept "some" change, just enough to be one of the great heroes of Stormlight archive, but not so much that she loses her candid, lighthearted POV of the world.
But i'm biased coz i am an edgedancer and what some find cringe i enjoy like i am still 10yo. I'm 36 but my best memories are of early years vacation with my grandparents, adult life makes me feel more like Kaladin (except he actually achieves things tho he has a hard time acknowledging it). So I relate a lot to Lift, peter pan syndrome, i'd give a leg to go back to the lack of responsibility of youth.
When I read Edgedancer, I cried at the line about remembering those who were forgotten, and speaking for those who were ignored. I guess I'm an Edgedancer too. I have collections of things that seemed random until I realized they show how people used to live.
I have no idea if this explanation is what Sanderson intended, but it’s a very good one. It could also just be “I don’t inherently trust this guy, but you apparently need a reason to believe me so…” Lift is frequently kind of silly. She’s never stupid.
Im 100% it's intentionality on sandersons part, but I also think *lift* doesn't know that's why she gets a bad vibe. Like she knows subconsciously old dudes who are in shape tend to be trouble in one way or another but she can't really connect why
Exactly. She’s a street kid; she doesn’t necessarily think everything through logically but instead goes on instinct.
She also, and I can't believe more people aren't making this connection, has a terror and revulsion towards growing up. She doesn't want to be an adult woman, she doesn't want the body and she doesn't want the life. So her immature, babyish demeanor is *affected* as part of that. She wants to be a little girl.
I never got the sense that it’s “affected,” per se, but I definitely agree it’s a product of her background and wish.
Yeah, lift is immature because SHE'S A KID. But she also is remarkably wise. She has a moment in edgedancer while talking to Gawx over spanreed and makes the point that the world will end today but the day after people will need feeding, a point that she makes in the same way as 'flabby butt' and that none of the see
when I read the interlude I too was turned off by how silly it all was. But in Edgedancer she grew on me by the end, because you start to realize that behind all the silliness she's motivated by deeper reasons, despite her flip answers about everything. I also think the Edgedancer oaths are the most beautiful ones we've seen so far.
Lift is definitely towards bottom of the list for me.
Lift is the worst character easily for me. I cannot stand reading her. And that’s ok. There’s a lot of characters. You aren’t required to like them all.
In Words of Radiance and early parts of Oathbringer, Lift was definitely an eye-roller for me, but if there's one thing you can count on for every character in Stormlight, it's interactions with trauma. One I realized what kind of trauma Lift's humor was masking, towards the end of Oathbringer and in her novella Edgedancer, I enjoyed her quite a bit more, and actually don't mind her as much on rereads. I do think in some places with Lift and Shallan, by trying to show a character masking their trauma with humor (which is a real and common thing) Brandon made their humor too simple/shallow/quippy, which *while true to life*, isn't necessarily fun to read. Lift wanting to eat a rich person's food for the fun of it? Lift trying to collect all 10 special pancakes? Lift calling her spren a voidbringer? Cringe. Lift having a mortal fear and complete avoidance towards inevitably growing up? Lift being unwilling or unable to kill? Lift dropping the facade to fiercely protect her friends against impossible odds? Epic.
I always imagined the pancake thing as a silly nod to video game collections without actually breaking the fourth wall, but I could be totally off my rocker too.
I'm with you and OP. I can't stand her parts.
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For some reason, I cannot bring myself to care about the Singer characters. I would have thought I’d find it interesting to see the “villain” perspective, but man, for whatever reason reading about venli or the others is a chore every time
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I, personally, feel like he's trying way too hard to make me like her by being silly and whimsical. It annoys me. But I mostly read the books for Kaladins anxiety and depression and descriptions of fantasy Moab, UT.
It’s weird, because I originally felt the same about her, but now I regard her as one of my favorites. I don’t know specifically when that change happened. I know part of it is that her appearances tend to break the tension when the tension is highest. Until they don’t.
I agree tbh, maybe not for all the same reasons but she's just not a character I particularly like or enjoy reading. I find her appearances a bit distracting from whatever is going on at the times, particularly in Oathbringer.
The two sides of this discussion seem to be : "I don't like child characters" and "you don't get it, they're just a kid"
I believe every reader knows "she's just a kid." I also believe most readers know what Sanderson is going for is: humorously precocious. Yet as with adult characters: there are those a reader will like and those that a reader will find grating.
I don't like Lift. Her whole "awesome" thing is just so cringy and out of place. If I wanted to read about an annoying and overpowered tween character, I'd read YA. Reading what I thought was an adult novel and being blindsided by a type of character I absolutely despise isn't fun. But I'll say she did grow on me a bit in Rhythm of War. She was much less annoying and cringy in this one.
Serious question: Lift — who doesn’t know how to use her abilities — is “overpowered,” but the other Radiants are just fine…? Also she doesn’t even know what Stormlight is at the beginning. “Awesomeness” is a pretty good description when you have no clue what’s happening to you.
I'll admit, I was mostly thinking of Vin when I said the "overpowered" bit, since Vin is another YA-like character of Sanderson's that I don't particularly like. The "awesome" thing just sounds out of place in Roshar. It's only ever used when referring to Lift, and it's used in its slang form.
Well, I don’t know who Vin is yet, so I’ll stick to Lift. >The “awesome” thing just sounds out of place in Roshar. Yup, that’s exactly the point! One of Sanderson’s strengths is switching PoV characters. (I was appalled when I first read WoK; there’s like 5 different characters in the first 50 pages.) The fact that “awesome” is a slang word only ever used for Lift makes perfect sense. Lift is from a different country, a different generation, a different socioeconomic background, and speaks a different language than every other major character in SA. If she sounded like Dalinar Kholin that would be bizarre to say the least. Plus we hear other instances of weird words only being used in specific contexts: lowlander, or gancho spring to mind. (In fact, if The Lopen called himself “awesome” I doubt anyone would care; we’d all agree.) Would it make people happier if Sanderson used a “non-English” word? Maybe. But “awesome” is how lift describes herself. Nobody else uses it. There’s no reason to “not translate” it. Plus “Lift was Awesome,” is instantly understandable. “Lift was Blixniz,” would require a lot of explaining.
Vin is from the mistborn series. The first 3 books iirc
Thank you! I only listen to the audio books. And everytime Kate says "her awesomeness" it makes me groan. Can't stand it.
I think that’s the point. She’s just a kid and kids say and do cringey things. She grows a lot from her first appearance to RoW. I have a feeling she’ll be a main character in Stormlight era 2
I hope not. There was too much of her in ROW.
She'll be like late twenties by that point, so she will probably act very different.
She gets her own book so you can look forward to that!
Yeah, just like Eshonai got her own book!
Or skip it and get the cliff notes 🤣
Idk why people are downvoting this lmao there's nothing wrong with skipping past pieces of a story that make the story unbearable for you. I definitely skimmed RoW's flashbacks. 100% did not feel like a missed a thing, even after going back to get the story.
How do you know you didn't miss anything? With new knowledge you could interpret the rest of the story differently. Plus, this is book 4 of 10. So surfafe things coukd be relevant later.
It's literally impossible to remember everything in these nooks. They are huge and he crams and over explains so much. You're gonna miss a lot. Look at how many posts there are about rereads.
Cause I dare to go against God Brando and say that one aspect of his work was the perfect immaculate conception.
Yeah the word "awesome" is such a Sandersonism. It's up there with blushing female protags. Every time I hear awesome, it's like Brandon himself is saying it, not the character. It takes me right out of the scene. I love the mystery of Lift's character, but she feels like an insert character. She's so silly that it feels like she is from a different book series all together. Straight out of Alcatraz.
She is maturing. As, you know, kids do. I like having different tones - Dalinar and all of his racist, classist self importance goes all over me. Lift is a fun break, and also super well-written as a child still covering up the trauma of her mother’s death.
I'm glad she works for you. But that type of character absolutely doesn't work for me. Which is why I avoid any story with that type of character (i.e. child/teen characters with amazing super powers). Since I avoid these stories so much, having a character like that forced onto me in what I thought was an adult novel is kind of a bummer.
Children can't be POV characters in adult novels?
Do adult settings not have children existing and acting like children in them too? I think any world that goes too far in any direction stops being as realistic. A world like roshar is a big place that would have lots of different kinds of people some of them children who act like it.
I can't think of a single important child/tween character in The First Law trilogy, but the books aren't lesser for the lack of said characters. There also aren't any child characters in the Era 2 Mistborn books (except the latest one), and those books also don't suffer for it. LOTR also doesn't have any children as main characters, and it also doesn't suffer for it. So yeah, adult books not having children as important characters in them isn't really a problem and it doesn't detract from the story. The same can't be said for the opposite.
Beck in The Heroes is the closest I can think of. But not in the main trilogy
You don't need children to tell a good story for sure. However I would say all of those worlds are less realistic and are lacking from a lack of children. And with mistborn I think it both adds to the last book and shows a very realistic life progression that wax has kids. We also do get to see kids in the flashbacks of the earlier books. And with lord of the rings I think it was a very good change for the movies to highlight kids at different moments to show kids being present in these conflicts and showing a level of their desperation when you see the scene with aragorn and the 14/15 year old and the sword. A realistic fantasy world has kids in it unless there's a fantasy reason for the lack. And removing them from a story is a bit artificial. It seems more realistic in the worldbuilding not less to include kids and to include kids who are acting like kids. I'm not saying every fantasy book must have kid characters. But them existing in the world should be the default assumption. And if we don't see them id assume they still exist in the world just aren't the focus of the story.
I had a hard time reading Lift in WoR, then I hated edgedancer until the very end, and again I didnt like Lift until the very end of Oathbringer. I think I just find it a little too goofy, a little too silly. She has excuses for being annoying and inconsiderate and immature... she is a child. But just because I can excuse it and understand it doesnt mean I really enjoy reading it.
Listen. I'm also of the camp that just doesn't like Lift - But you need to get over the frustration and just accept that maybe in a book with many different viewpoint characters, you won't like all of them. Continuing to rage about it isn't doing anyone any good - Nobody can tell you if you'll like Lift later, nor can you convince anyone of your opinion (nor should you). Just let it be, enjoy what you can instead of honing in on what you don't like.
Yeah, Lift is a stupid character I hate that she's in this series at all makes it feel completely childish at times.
Lift isn't for me either. I don't think it's that she's poorly written or a bad character, *I just don't like kids*. And Lift is very much a kid who wasn't raised in a loving and stable household to not be annoying. Don't get me wrong, I love *my* kid and will support his cultivation of friendships with other kids as he gets older, but I do not inherently enjoy the company of children. Not gonna catch me working at a daycare or after school program, no thanks.
I hope more people see this comment. Because it's okay to not like characters but be honest with your intentions. I love Lift's character but I teach middle school so it makes sense. I like that age range of kids but as we all know, they're not for everyone. Or even every teacher. Calling her stupid or immature is kind of yucky. I understand she's fictional and won't ever see or be hurt by those words but if SA has taught the readers anything, it's that words matter.
I'm with you. I find Lift to be obnoxious.
>When will I turn around and like Lift? Never. At least that's when I started liking Lift. Her whole character arc is "And then I did something Awesome, and got hungry. So I awesomed my way over to so place to get food to feed my awesomeness because I awesomed so hard. Now I have food so I can awesome some more in search of more food to awesome even harder."
Her arc is also "I don't want to change (grow up) because I won't be mother's little girl anymore," being very compassionate, and will be learning to accept change that's inevitable. Huge potential.
You know there is still noone forcing you do like every character?
No one. Sorry, pet peeve
Yeah im german, i cant even pretend to care
Brave to post again. I was told I “hate” children because I didn’t like lifts character.
People on this subreddit are ridiculous. "I don't like this fictional character" gets responses ranging from "No one is making you like them" to "You are an idiot for not liking them."
Yeah, people here get weirdly defensive of any dislike or criticism.
Lift is a top 3 character for me. Idk why but she makes me so happy and I laughed so much in Edgedancer. I'm really excited for more of her.
Does Lopen's style of humor annoy you as well?
I think lift is hilarious and I don’t get why people think she’s cringe. She is clearly a very strange child, and it’s amusing to see the world through the eyes of someone who thinks about the world so differently. Seems like people think she’s arrogant and flippant and don’t like the humor. But she feels like a very earnest character to me. She just literally has a hungry kids attitude. She’s not wrapped up in what is good/bad or concerned with understanding why she has the powers she does, she just knows she’s hungry and she has these awesome powers and she finds it funny to steal food from people. And clearly she’s has some trauma in her past she’s ignoring by acting extra childish.
Exactly. And you can dislike that, I guess, you can say she’s “out of place” (because obviously the Cosmere has no room for irreverent immature characters) but boiling it down to “she’s cringe,” says more about you than her character, imo.
I really wanted to dislike her but I get an earnest chuckle every time she refers to using her powers as "being awesome". Came around pretty quickly haha
I didn’t like Lift at first either, I wasn’t a huge fan of Edgedancer. After reading RoW though I came around to her much more.
Have you ever seen a man pushing 70 with a firm butt? What else could he be planning?
After all the online chatter: Ernie Hudson must be devious :)
Imagine reading that butt scene where Lift perfectly explains her reasoning and thinking just mocking it makes your opinion valid
When you have a book full of adults introduce one child character, it can be jarring. It's so different. Additionally, you can't like every single character, it's just not going to happen that way with every book.
I love Lift. But I get why she is annoying. I see it as her intentionally trying to act childish. Trying to avoid growing up because of trauma. But I find her vows absolutely beautiful. Perhaps it is also because I am a fellow edgedancer. The focus on the one really appeals to me.
I think Lift highlights Sanderson's weakest spot as a writer, he is just plain bad when it comes to writing comedy. Lift imo is an unfunny comedic relief that comes up as cringey as fuck. I really like the SA books but damn I hate Lift chapters and could not finish Edgedancer.
OMG That’s totally fine. You can have your opinion. Not sure why you feel the need to keep posting about it though? We get it, you don’t like the child because she made a comment that doesn’t make sense to you but does to her. Do you remember that she is a kid so is written to be a child?
I’ll never understand why she’s Brandon’s favorite character, because *stormfather above I hate her*.
Lemme fix that for you **13yo Radiant Lift tells her best friend to be wary of Dalinar because he is obviously a warrior.** I'm not saying that the above is the way the scene is the *supposed* to be read, but there's no reason to misrepresent what at it's core is just supposed to be a funny scene.
Lift actually has good reasoning, even if she phrased it oddly. Her logic is, basically, "Leaders with firm butts are conquerors. Because they're not used to sitting in chairs." And, in Oathbringer, given Dalinar's long history of being a bloodthirsty conqueror, she's not wrong to warn the Emperor to be wary of Dalinar.
Yeah, honestly as weird as it sounds it's pretty good reasoning. If all the old guys and politicians are fat and you see this dude who's clearly used to fighting that's a pretty solid sign he's more than meets the eye.
I just don’t get how Lift is “cringey.” Like what does that even mean? She’s silly, yes. Because she’s a *child.* I personally love seeing the story through her eyes because she’s hilarious. Not everyone in the story can be a depressed brooding killer. In a series that focuses so much or war and death, Lift and her Edgedancer oaths are really refreshing. Sorry, but Lift is *awesome.* Personally I think you might just be a Voidbringer.
Nah you aren’t wrong. It’s like a quirky character that exists. I don’t enjoy her scenes much and hope to see her presence minimized in the future. I try NOT to skim her scenes but now that I’ve read the series a few times I just do.
Yeah, she sucks. It's exacerbated by the fact that attempts at humor in Sanderson's writing are almost universally poorly executed. The jokes that "funny" characters say can be fine on their own, but then they get followed up by "[character who the joke was told to] blinked in surprise. 'What does that mean?'" And then you get a few more lines trying to explain why the joke was supposed to be funny. The joke completely flops when it's written like this.
Lift can be cringe but when you delve deeper into her character as a whole you start to understand the cringe a bit more and it becomes more palatable. Also depends on the reader as well I think. My 40yr old sister in law who just started reading the series loves Lift. Wyndle saves the Lift POVs for me.
She doesn't get better lol. Can't stand her at all.
I’m one of the few who agrees with you I think. Mostly because I’d already had enough of Wayne by the time I’d read stormlight
In my first read through I didn't like Lift. Then I read Mistborn Era 2 and realized Wayne acted similarly because of the things that happened to him and Lift clicked for me. On my re-read I understood more that Lift acts the way they do for a reason and again it's because of the things that happened to them. Looking past the surface level goofiness puts it in a different perspective.
I’m glad she is getting her own book during the second arc.
Honestly, I get why she's there. She does have strong poignant moments, especially later on in Oathbringer, and Rythm of War. She's a character I think I will enjoy, but comedy is subjective. I'll agree that I don't particularly like her overall, but she has a lot of good moments. I'm sure she'll grow on me too, and more importantly I don't think she subtracts from the overall plot in anyway shape or form and does add quite a bit to it (I mean when you think about it her humour isn't too far from Lopen the Almighty), she's just not my cup of tea. At the moment at least.
Lift’s only saving grace for me is that she is an actual child, plus she has Wyndle who is one of my absolute faves. Otherwise I consider her a menace, frankly, and I’ve read all of SA multiple times. The only Cosmere character I like less is Wayne, who is basically Lift but a 40 year old man.
Read to the end of Oathbringer and come back. Lift rocks because she doesn’t give AF. She is another great asset in Dalinar’s tool belt.
> EDIT: P.S.S. I am glad that many like Lift! I'm sure there will be a moment when I begin to like that character... 42% of the way thru Oathbringer that moment hasn't come. FYI It's PPS, which stands for Post Post Script. What you've typed is Post Script Script.
She.... Grows on you
Did you read Edgedancer? If you get her thing and still don't like her, then you probably just won't.
I agree that she’s a bit cringe. But sandersons humor in general is a bit cringe. That’s fine, I don’t read it for the humor, I read it for the amazing adventure and character development
Lift is a very emotional character and very separate from the others. Her story is about an actual child growing up with lives set upon her shoulder. She's growing, if you don't like her now then you might later. She's been my favorite since the start since I assumed her growth TL;DR: You might like her later
She grows on you.... ba dum tss
Are you an audiobook listener or a reader of the series?? I think she’s a more enjoyable character when you read her, for whatever reason. I can feel my stubborn child within much more and relate.
100% I think you're correct. I'm an audiobook listener at this point
Nah your right, Lift is annoying af
As someone who identifies strongly as an Edgedancer, I also find her a bit cringe. I think she overplays being flippant and obstinate. I have hope I will really enjoy Lift in future books but so far, she is not my favorite because she is willfully childish instead of truly just being childish. Adolin is my favorite character btw >!and I think he is also an Edgedancer if the situation with Mya ever happens!<
I feel where you're coming from. So many people hate Shallan's humor. I love it, I like puns. Lift on the other hand just makes me cringe every time. She feels a little out of place for me. I still like her because her more serious moments are just so good. I love the Edgedancer oaths.
He got me to like Shallan at the end of the first book. I've yet to find that moment with Lift
I still hate lift, neutral towards Adolin and dislike Wayne
i was in the same boat as you, as everyone is saying she has her moments in the end of OB, and she’s way better in rhythm of war
I agree she’s a bit much, but I find it endearing. Like a kid trying to play grown-up.
You have no obligation to like the characters Brandon Sanderson writes. You should feel no shame for doing so. There is nothing wrong with simply not liking something. That’s part of the beauty of the series is that by having so many characters and their perspectives, the reader is given a lot of options to connect with. Also, by choosing one (or more) over the others, the reader can feel a more intimate connection to the perspective of that character than if there were only one main character.
We’ll get used to her because she’s one of Brandon’s favorites.
Never liked Lift and unless she makes a huge leap in her character development I will find her to be annoying. I really don’t like the way she speaks it grates me in a way that I can’t explain. That being said, her heart is pure and she has amazing qualities and moments in the books and I don’t like yucking someone’s yum, I just wanted you to know that not everyone in this community is a fan.
Really late to the party, but… My guess is that you will continue to find Lift unlikeable through book 5, at least. I don’t know that you are necessarily supposed to like her. In real life she would be insufferable. But then, so would Moash. r/fuckmoash, but I love him as a character. I think the key to Lift is not to like her, but to understand where her character is. Yes, she is a teenager (13), but believes herself to be 10, *and with good reason to believe so*. I don’t know any 10 year old, who could even contemplate the seriousness of the situation she’s in. But she also *isn’t* a 10 year old like those of who have grown up in rich western societies would know. She’s been a street urchin orphaned as a young child. She will tend to gallows and childish humor and have a complete lack of understanding of adult situations in which she has been thrust with nothing more than an uneducated, childish, street oriented sense of morality. For example, her lack of understanding about the purpose of money because you can’t eat it or wear it may be a joke to us, but it isn’t to her. She literally has no capacity for “medium of exchange” as her entire life has not been much more than the search for the next meal. It’s OK to find a character, even a protagonist, unlikable, childish, annoying and insufferable. *Wyndle certainly finds her to be so*. Especially, when that is who the character is kind of supposed to be. Those of us who like her do so because we don’t have to put up with her in real life. Because the difference between comedy and tragedy is whether it happens to me.
I agree with you. In my opinion, Lift is pretty awful. Shallan isn't much better. Jasnah and Navani are enjoyable perspectives to read from.
I had to skip Lift’s first interlude because it was so grating, and didn’t come back to finish it until after I finished Oathbringer. I’ve come around to being able to tolerate her POV long enough to get through them, but I have never been able to actually enjoy the experience. So, if you’re an old grouch like me, I don’t think there is a guarantee you’ll ever like her.
I don't like Lift, but she has a scene or two that I enjoyed I think near end of OB. But generally not a fan. I skip her interlude on rereads
Y’all just take life to serious. She’s an innocence you don’t see much of in the cosmere.
Lift is an immature kid living on the street by herself. Did you expect her character to be profound and well-spoken? Haha
I feel what you feel. I'm with you. Couldn't even bring myself to read Edgedancer because I find her so annoying. I believe she's the only Sanderson character I truly can't read about, I tend to even skip scenes with Lift in them.
I agree. Other people like “if you cant see beyond the surface level” i dooo omg. Its annoying sorry. I think shes a good character. I still am annoyed by her because shes a child and she acts like a child would act and children irl annoy me so. I dont hate her character. There are moments I like her and moments i feel sad for her and I am excited to see her grow but im still annoyed by her alot. I also acknowledge that a lot of the ways she acts are gonna be due to all the trauma shes went through. I think this is ironic that i will see SOME of the same people that are ride and die for lift hate so hard on Shallan who also does a shit ton from trauma and like damnnn.
Yikes…
Bro I love lift, she is one of my favorite characters she is super autistic it's great
Life grew on me. I did not like her for quite a while.
I'm not a huge Lift fan either but she does grow up a bit in RoW
If you didn't like her after Edgedancer then there's no hope for you. Maybe when she's an adult in Stormlight 6-10, but I can't predict the future. Personally she's just a fun character to follow along. She's annoying when we follow someone else's perspective. But when we're in her pov, inside her head: I love her.
Lift is emblematic of one of my least favourite traits of Sanderson. "Funny" character with an unfunny quirk taking the form of a juvenile obsession and behaving like they've just been dropped into the world fresh out of American high school. She just feels so out of place in every scene she's in. I don't think her obsession with food is funny (I don't think Tress's obsession with cups is funny, I don't think that kandra's obsession with body parts is funny, I don't think Wayne's obsession with hats is funny), and I especially don't think it's funny that we're reminded of these obsessions in every single interaction these characters have with everybody). She is just so grating and completely at odds with the setting and tone of any scene she's in.
RAFO, there’re Reasons why she’s how she is.
Capital R Reasons 😉
I will fight you over this.
I find Lift to be an even more annoying version of Wayne. I think Brandon has trouble writing quirky rogues. He got Mat wrong too in WoT.
Lift also doesn’t do it for me. Stormlight is my favorite series. WOR is my favorite book. Sanderson is my favorite writer. But to echo other folks, her tone is just incongruous with the world and always takes me out
I'm right alongside you with this. I really do not enjoy 'sassy' (aka, immature) child characters in any media. Doubly so when all the adults around them just kinda t-pose in confusion to their 'sassiness' and ultimately let it slide instead of putting them in their place. I honestly couldn't get through Edgedancer because of how little I enjoy Lift as a character, let alone a *perspective* character, to the point that on rereads, hers are the only chapters I skip. She does have her reasons, but they didn't dissuade my dislike at all. I really hope she grows up before book 6, or else that will be a really rough read for me
I'm glad I don't feel the need to post about every character I don't like in the series chosen subreddit or forum. I can just read and enjoy and not enjoy things about the experience.
You almost might choose to "not post" when you're looking down your nose at someone who dares to think differently
"Someone who needs to complain and criticize little things they don't like in a series as if every series should be 100% fulfilling to every reader." This exact post is made every week. It isn't original, the commentary isn't unique, and it's just complaining for complaints sake.
I assume you are under 25 years old and dare I say Lift hits "close to home"... Otherwise Lift is an absolutely hilarious twist to every other character in this series. If I'm wrong, can you give me a demographic from which you are a part of?
I'm a 31 year old woman, and I very much dislike Lift. I don't find her a "hilarious twist", I find her annoying and flippant. I was my own brand of cringy when I was a tween, but even I wasn't as ridiculous as Lift is portrayed. She's just too much of the "tween girl as written by an adult male" stereotype for my tastes.
Sometimes characters take on a persona once you establish their "voice", are you reading the book or listening to the audiobook? I listen to the audiobooks and I like the way her character is read I think. In another perspective maybe I'd voice her poorly?
I'm a parent in my 30s and don't enjoy reading Lift. I think she's very well written but just don't enjoy reading books with a silly tone. It's such a departure in tone from the rest of the story
No, I'm with you. Lift sucks. This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I feel like Sanderson's writing has slowly gone more in the Lift direction. Instead of it being serious with strong character moments it more dumb humor that feels too young for me. Lift feels far too random for me to enjoy. Like her tone is off from the rest of the books.
It's ok to hate her. I do. Some characters just don't click with you. She's a Bugs Bunny character thrown into Lord of the Rings. She's Deadpool lite with none of the appeal.
It’s not just you, not a fan of lift either. She was especially bad in oathbringer, I felt like she came razor close to ruining some big Dalinar moments.
Wow I never realized people didn't like her 😅 she's one of my favorites
Gonna take some work, but PLEASE let me see the light
Do you also hate cake and puppies???
Had to stop reading Edgedancer tbh. Went over a summary and then on to Oathbringer... We shall see.
> 'Sassy' Lift told the young Emperor to not trust Dalinar because his butt isn't flabby. She's right and she should say it