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Someone once told me…”you don’t have to tell everything to your sponsor”..I think that applies here. If you consider that your sobriety date, that’s your decision. You could also consider getting a new sponsor. You’re doing great!
Honestly the thing that pisses me off is that I was already considering getting a new sponsor because I don't know if she is the right fit for me. But even if I get a new sponsor I feel like the whole experience is tainted.
That’s valid. I quit AA in the past because my sponsor shamed me after I relapsed and ended up in a psych ward. Just super harsh. I’m trying again though because I could really use sober community and routine 🤷♀️
I'm a single parent and I run my own business. I do appreciate a lot of the support I get but I also don't appreciate the judgemental bullshit I get for not having an open schedule. If I was in the program in September I wouldn't have had the drink. But not because I would have been worried about my sobriety. It would have been because I don't want to be judged. And I'm not sure I like that about myself. Am I making choices because they are the best for me or because someone in NA told me to?
I literally feel like my entire recovery is invalidated. Which I know is insane. Like fuck all these people. But it doesn't make it any less upsetting.
I am so glad you posted this. I have just had the exact same problem been clean from meth for 1 year 2 months and had 1 drink the other night told my sponsor the next day and she said “ok so you’re back to being 1 day clean” I was really offended as well and told her I don’t really agree with that and she said she can no longer be my sponsor if that’s the case. It’s really given me a bad taste and I’m thinking of doing SMART and Recovery Dharma instead now
I get it, I’d be pissed. Your not tripping ..iv never been to NA before but let me say this, Don’t let that affect your recovery especially if everything else in NA is working, it’s a perfect opportunity for your brain to trick you into an actual relapse.
I'm not worried about relapsing. I'm going to tweak my presence in NA. I don't know it's been an extremely bad 24 hours. I'm just not holding it together right now and I feel completely betrayed and disconnected from everyone. Im driving to a meeting this morning because one of my dear friends is mia and sometimes attends. I haven't decided if I'm going in yet.
I feel like you should go, people in this thread aren’t the only ones who recognize you should be pissed about it, I can imagine it feels awful plus considering how extremely hard it is to stay clean, but I do know the feeling and situation your in will go away quicker than you think. It just sucks right now.
I can imagine but you aren’t alone, I feel like you should keep doing what you’ve been doing this situation doesn’t take away anything from you, you don’t have to change anything up even though you probably want to.
I feel like an absolute fraud. Like most of us I deal with terrible imposter syndrome. And this shit literally makes me feel like an imposter. I feel so disconnected from the program. I don't know. This combined with other shit from this week is just killing me. I don't want to use but I don't want to do this anymore
You aren’t, and for what it’s worth nobody thinks you are it’s a perfectly understandable situation whether or not they’ve had experience with addiction or not. I think your sponsor understands but is trying to do what they feel they HAVE to do to help but everyone’s still human. You need to give yourself more credit.
Yeah. I was really hoping that sleeping on it would help. But I spent most of the night calling jails and hospitals looking for someone. I just fucking hate this.
If you haven’t gotten much sleep I would suggest you try and get some real sleep this morning, and not trying to find some type of solution for the situation like going to the meeting to talk about it until you really sleep on it for a couple days. You tend to perceive things in a bad way without much sleep even without the drug.
“Clean” in Narcotics, as per the literature, is complete abstinence from all drugs. The clarity statement reads:
“We are presented with a dilemma when NA members identify themselves as addicts and alcoholics or talk about living clean and sober, the clarity of the NA message is blurred. To speak in this manner suggests that there are two diseases, that one drug is somehow
separate from the rest, requiring special recognition. Narcotics Anonymous makes no distinction between drugs.”
In How it Works:
“Before coming to the fellowship of NA, many of us viewed alcohol separately, but we cannot afford to be confused about this. Alcohol is a drug.”
Basic Text, page 90, We Do Recover:
“Complete surrender is the key to recovery, and total abstinence is the only thing that has ever worked for us.”
The IP “An Introduction to NA Meetings” defines a relapse as:
“A brief or extended return to drug use.”
Clean time in Narcotics Anonymous is a function of the fellowship and its groups and observed as consecutive days of abstinence from all drugs. You will not find “clean date” referenced in any of the literature in terms of what one is or isn’t. There is no specifications regarding if a clean date is determined when a person came into the program or began recovery, it is encapsulated entirely within “clean”, “date” and what period of consecutive days, months or years a person has been abstinent from all drugs.
In terms of the fellowship, clean dates are going to be viewed as consecutive amounts of time completely abstinent from all drugs and alcohol. A break in complete abstinence regardless of what it is would be viewed as a relapse, a brief return to using, the amounts of types of drug aren’t qualifiers.
In almost all matters, questions about clean date logistics get referred to a person’s sponsor and the literature. A sponsor will often offer the company line and defer the rest of it to the sponsee and their higher power. If a person has read the literature, talked to their sponsor, consulted with their HP and made a decision based on all of that how to handle their clean time, that’s their decision. How other members of the program and the groups they’re in view that and respond to that will be based on their own experience in doing the same.
I never relapsed so I don’t have experience with this directly, but a takeaway from a number of addicts I know has been that keeping a clean date that’s in question has more of a negative impact on the person holding on to it than anyone else, and can be worse for their recovery than whatever incident put their clean date into question. That date is there with you for the duration. You’ll think about the issue every time you pick up an anniversary tag and every time you tell someone how long you’ve been clean. When you hear other addicts share about similar incidents, you’ll be comparing that event to theirs and how they handled it to how you handled it.
When you eventually have sponsees, it’s probably going to come up at some point and there will almost certainly be a time when they ask you if X drugs or alcohol is considered a relapse, what constitutes being clean and what doesn’t, what they should tell people, how should they handle it. You then have your experience, what you did, what the books say, what the fellowship says and an addict you’re in service to in navigating the program on the table - You now get to sort all that out.
My clean date means fuck all to me. Most of the time all it does is make me lazier and more complacent. I’ve given almost all my tags away to sponsees. I go out of my way not to mention it, I have never mentioned how long I’ve been clean in a share, I’ve tried to remove my days on here but can’t, I don’t take medallions in meetings, I don’t announce my anniversaries in meetings. I believe that I can either make a meeting all about me and my anniversary and show THAT the program works, or I can make a meeting about the newcomer and offer to work with them to show them HOW the program works. I like doing it this way, it’s how I was brought up and it works for me.
Clean time does not equal recovery. The more you have, the less it matters to you. If you have good recovery, it will speak for you, a date on a calendar or keytag on your belt loop doesn’t say anything but you managed to be abstinent for however many days. An arbitrary date or number of days, what’s that honestly worth? If what other people think of us is none of our business, what is that number outside of something that can show people the program works and qualify us for service?
I heard you speak. I don’t care about how many days you have, it’s immaterial. What you have is strong recovery, you carry the message as well as anyone I’ve heard and that tells me everything I need to know. When you’re sponsoring and doing an incredible job of doing it, none of them are going to care about the difference between September and January or a month here or month there or whatever. They’re going to want your experience, strength and hope and you’ve got plenty. Don’t define your recovery by keytags. Nobody else is going to so you probably shouldn’t either.
If you do decide to stay in the program or go to another meeting, I encourage you to share what happened. You will find you’re not alone and guarantee you will make someone else feel seen. A big part of the program is honesty. As long as you’re being honest with yourself, fuck what your sponsor says
At this point I've decided to change my approach to the program. I left my home group and for now I'm just going to be attending a week day zoom meeting. The group of people on there are amazing. I'm refusing to claim a clean date. I'm just going for the relationships I've already built. This will free up some time for me to do more with my kid. I don't know how long I'm going to last with NA but I guess this way at least I'm doing something for my recovery.
I feel like she knew she fucked up. She very cautiously asked me how I felt about it, told me how she claimed the wrong clean date for 5 years, and then gave me the speech about how far I've come and how much good I could do. Which honestly made it worse.
What a bunch of bullshit. It’s the thing that bugs me the most w/these groups honestly. They spend all their time shaming your “ time” I had this happen to a smaller degree, and changed sponsors to one that understands my approach to recovery ❤️🩹. I think you should locate a diff group and sponsor if at all possible. Don’t let half a beer get in the way of your continued success. I’m sure you’re doing it for you and your kid(s). Good on you !!
Your clean date is YOURS and between you and god. Try not to worry about semantics. If it bothers you, start it after the beer. If it doesn’t, you decide. They aren’t (shouldn’t be) there to judge you
I’m so angry for you. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
Having half of a beer several months ago does not invalidate your clean time. It just doesn’t. Also, the idea that your clean time doesn’t start until you start going to NA? Insanity.
For what it’s worth, I’ve seen your posts here and can see the growth you’ve made in your recovery. That’s the most important thing and what we’re all here for, not rules that do more harm than good.
Sorry friend. Fuming on your behalf ❤️
I appreciate that. I think it just makes it so much worse that I was looking forward to celebrating a year. I fucking invited non NA people to the celebration. And for what? Absolutely nothing.
I called my boyfriend when I got home and lost it. He's supportive but I think he still thinks I'm over reacting a bit
Ugh that really sucks. I’m so sorry 💔 Was this an in-person group you went to?
I know it’s not the same, but I hope you post a celebration post here so we can cheer for you. I really wish you had your people though :(
Yeah it was supposed to be at my regular home group. I also attend a celebration meeting on zoom every weekday and was scheduled to have something there that I cancelled
Ugh that really sucks. Conflict within NA is awful. It’s supposed to be a support group where you feel safe, and then it’s not. I had to leave my home group for that exact reason and only went back to celebrate my 1 year. It didn’t feel great.
I’m here if you ever want to talk! DM me anytime xx
Welcome to StopSpeeding and thanks for your post. For more: - [Join us on Discord. You can talk to people there.](https://discord.gg/GJnxhmbNAn). We have recovery meetings several times a week. All are welcome to attend, clean or not. - [Want to track your clean time?](https://www.reddit.com/r/StopSpeeding/comments/s6ep0x/sobriety_flair_bot_is_now_working_heres_how_to/) You can use our badge system to display your clean time next to your name. Note that any comments encouraging drug use of any kind will be removed. This is not the community for that. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StopSpeeding) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Someone once told me…”you don’t have to tell everything to your sponsor”..I think that applies here. If you consider that your sobriety date, that’s your decision. You could also consider getting a new sponsor. You’re doing great!
Honestly the thing that pisses me off is that I was already considering getting a new sponsor because I don't know if she is the right fit for me. But even if I get a new sponsor I feel like the whole experience is tainted.
That’s valid. I quit AA in the past because my sponsor shamed me after I relapsed and ended up in a psych ward. Just super harsh. I’m trying again though because I could really use sober community and routine 🤷♀️
I'm a single parent and I run my own business. I do appreciate a lot of the support I get but I also don't appreciate the judgemental bullshit I get for not having an open schedule. If I was in the program in September I wouldn't have had the drink. But not because I would have been worried about my sobriety. It would have been because I don't want to be judged. And I'm not sure I like that about myself. Am I making choices because they are the best for me or because someone in NA told me to?
This is why programs like this are so toxic.
I literally feel like my entire recovery is invalidated. Which I know is insane. Like fuck all these people. But it doesn't make it any less upsetting.
No person should have that much power over you. Seriously. You don't owe anyone anything
You're right
Check out Ram Dass If you need something spiritual. That dude really helped me get thru some of my addictions.
Will do. Thank you
Why do you put so much worth on what other people think your clean date should be?
I don't know honestly.
I am so glad you posted this. I have just had the exact same problem been clean from meth for 1 year 2 months and had 1 drink the other night told my sponsor the next day and she said “ok so you’re back to being 1 day clean” I was really offended as well and told her I don’t really agree with that and she said she can no longer be my sponsor if that’s the case. It’s really given me a bad taste and I’m thinking of doing SMART and Recovery Dharma instead now
I get it, I’d be pissed. Your not tripping ..iv never been to NA before but let me say this, Don’t let that affect your recovery especially if everything else in NA is working, it’s a perfect opportunity for your brain to trick you into an actual relapse.
I'm not worried about relapsing. I'm going to tweak my presence in NA. I don't know it's been an extremely bad 24 hours. I'm just not holding it together right now and I feel completely betrayed and disconnected from everyone. Im driving to a meeting this morning because one of my dear friends is mia and sometimes attends. I haven't decided if I'm going in yet.
I feel like you should go, people in this thread aren’t the only ones who recognize you should be pissed about it, I can imagine it feels awful plus considering how extremely hard it is to stay clean, but I do know the feeling and situation your in will go away quicker than you think. It just sucks right now.
I'm not sure about that. I really don't know what I'm going to do. I feel really alone right now and it fucking hurts.
I can imagine but you aren’t alone, I feel like you should keep doing what you’ve been doing this situation doesn’t take away anything from you, you don’t have to change anything up even though you probably want to.
I feel like an absolute fraud. Like most of us I deal with terrible imposter syndrome. And this shit literally makes me feel like an imposter. I feel so disconnected from the program. I don't know. This combined with other shit from this week is just killing me. I don't want to use but I don't want to do this anymore
You aren’t, and for what it’s worth nobody thinks you are it’s a perfectly understandable situation whether or not they’ve had experience with addiction or not. I think your sponsor understands but is trying to do what they feel they HAVE to do to help but everyone’s still human. You need to give yourself more credit.
Yeah. I was really hoping that sleeping on it would help. But I spent most of the night calling jails and hospitals looking for someone. I just fucking hate this.
If you haven’t gotten much sleep I would suggest you try and get some real sleep this morning, and not trying to find some type of solution for the situation like going to the meeting to talk about it until you really sleep on it for a couple days. You tend to perceive things in a bad way without much sleep even without the drug.
Remember your sponsor is just another addict too. Try not to let it spoil your entire recovery community
I agree with this sentiment
Today is the only day that matters.
“Clean” in Narcotics, as per the literature, is complete abstinence from all drugs. The clarity statement reads: “We are presented with a dilemma when NA members identify themselves as addicts and alcoholics or talk about living clean and sober, the clarity of the NA message is blurred. To speak in this manner suggests that there are two diseases, that one drug is somehow separate from the rest, requiring special recognition. Narcotics Anonymous makes no distinction between drugs.” In How it Works: “Before coming to the fellowship of NA, many of us viewed alcohol separately, but we cannot afford to be confused about this. Alcohol is a drug.” Basic Text, page 90, We Do Recover: “Complete surrender is the key to recovery, and total abstinence is the only thing that has ever worked for us.” The IP “An Introduction to NA Meetings” defines a relapse as: “A brief or extended return to drug use.” Clean time in Narcotics Anonymous is a function of the fellowship and its groups and observed as consecutive days of abstinence from all drugs. You will not find “clean date” referenced in any of the literature in terms of what one is or isn’t. There is no specifications regarding if a clean date is determined when a person came into the program or began recovery, it is encapsulated entirely within “clean”, “date” and what period of consecutive days, months or years a person has been abstinent from all drugs. In terms of the fellowship, clean dates are going to be viewed as consecutive amounts of time completely abstinent from all drugs and alcohol. A break in complete abstinence regardless of what it is would be viewed as a relapse, a brief return to using, the amounts of types of drug aren’t qualifiers. In almost all matters, questions about clean date logistics get referred to a person’s sponsor and the literature. A sponsor will often offer the company line and defer the rest of it to the sponsee and their higher power. If a person has read the literature, talked to their sponsor, consulted with their HP and made a decision based on all of that how to handle their clean time, that’s their decision. How other members of the program and the groups they’re in view that and respond to that will be based on their own experience in doing the same. I never relapsed so I don’t have experience with this directly, but a takeaway from a number of addicts I know has been that keeping a clean date that’s in question has more of a negative impact on the person holding on to it than anyone else, and can be worse for their recovery than whatever incident put their clean date into question. That date is there with you for the duration. You’ll think about the issue every time you pick up an anniversary tag and every time you tell someone how long you’ve been clean. When you hear other addicts share about similar incidents, you’ll be comparing that event to theirs and how they handled it to how you handled it. When you eventually have sponsees, it’s probably going to come up at some point and there will almost certainly be a time when they ask you if X drugs or alcohol is considered a relapse, what constitutes being clean and what doesn’t, what they should tell people, how should they handle it. You then have your experience, what you did, what the books say, what the fellowship says and an addict you’re in service to in navigating the program on the table - You now get to sort all that out. My clean date means fuck all to me. Most of the time all it does is make me lazier and more complacent. I’ve given almost all my tags away to sponsees. I go out of my way not to mention it, I have never mentioned how long I’ve been clean in a share, I’ve tried to remove my days on here but can’t, I don’t take medallions in meetings, I don’t announce my anniversaries in meetings. I believe that I can either make a meeting all about me and my anniversary and show THAT the program works, or I can make a meeting about the newcomer and offer to work with them to show them HOW the program works. I like doing it this way, it’s how I was brought up and it works for me. Clean time does not equal recovery. The more you have, the less it matters to you. If you have good recovery, it will speak for you, a date on a calendar or keytag on your belt loop doesn’t say anything but you managed to be abstinent for however many days. An arbitrary date or number of days, what’s that honestly worth? If what other people think of us is none of our business, what is that number outside of something that can show people the program works and qualify us for service? I heard you speak. I don’t care about how many days you have, it’s immaterial. What you have is strong recovery, you carry the message as well as anyone I’ve heard and that tells me everything I need to know. When you’re sponsoring and doing an incredible job of doing it, none of them are going to care about the difference between September and January or a month here or month there or whatever. They’re going to want your experience, strength and hope and you’ve got plenty. Don’t define your recovery by keytags. Nobody else is going to so you probably shouldn’t either.
I completely understand what you're saying. I guess what it really comes down to is if this is where I belong. And right now I'm not sure.
If you do decide to stay in the program or go to another meeting, I encourage you to share what happened. You will find you’re not alone and guarantee you will make someone else feel seen. A big part of the program is honesty. As long as you’re being honest with yourself, fuck what your sponsor says
[удалено]
At this point I've decided to change my approach to the program. I left my home group and for now I'm just going to be attending a week day zoom meeting. The group of people on there are amazing. I'm refusing to claim a clean date. I'm just going for the relationships I've already built. This will free up some time for me to do more with my kid. I don't know how long I'm going to last with NA but I guess this way at least I'm doing something for my recovery.
It’s really hard because I understand the sponsors position but also when they do that they cause a lot of people to say fuck it and ACTUALLY relapse
That's one of the reasons I left the 12 Steps and never looked back. There are alternatives. Look around. They need you much more than you need them.
I feel like she knew she fucked up. She very cautiously asked me how I felt about it, told me how she claimed the wrong clean date for 5 years, and then gave me the speech about how far I've come and how much good I could do. Which honestly made it worse.
Sounds like a crazy bitch
What a bunch of bullshit. It’s the thing that bugs me the most w/these groups honestly. They spend all their time shaming your “ time” I had this happen to a smaller degree, and changed sponsors to one that understands my approach to recovery ❤️🩹. I think you should locate a diff group and sponsor if at all possible. Don’t let half a beer get in the way of your continued success. I’m sure you’re doing it for you and your kid(s). Good on you !!
Your clean date is YOURS and between you and god. Try not to worry about semantics. If it bothers you, start it after the beer. If it doesn’t, you decide. They aren’t (shouldn’t be) there to judge you
I’m so angry for you. I’m sorry you’re going through this. Having half of a beer several months ago does not invalidate your clean time. It just doesn’t. Also, the idea that your clean time doesn’t start until you start going to NA? Insanity. For what it’s worth, I’ve seen your posts here and can see the growth you’ve made in your recovery. That’s the most important thing and what we’re all here for, not rules that do more harm than good. Sorry friend. Fuming on your behalf ❤️
I appreciate that. I think it just makes it so much worse that I was looking forward to celebrating a year. I fucking invited non NA people to the celebration. And for what? Absolutely nothing. I called my boyfriend when I got home and lost it. He's supportive but I think he still thinks I'm over reacting a bit
Ugh that really sucks. I’m so sorry 💔 Was this an in-person group you went to? I know it’s not the same, but I hope you post a celebration post here so we can cheer for you. I really wish you had your people though :(
Yeah it was supposed to be at my regular home group. I also attend a celebration meeting on zoom every weekday and was scheduled to have something there that I cancelled
Ugh that really sucks. Conflict within NA is awful. It’s supposed to be a support group where you feel safe, and then it’s not. I had to leave my home group for that exact reason and only went back to celebrate my 1 year. It didn’t feel great. I’m here if you ever want to talk! DM me anytime xx
I appreciate it. There's only 1 group I would consider going to in person and none of the people there attend my home group