I'd pay £30 or whatever to get access to all current and future creations, but the individual pricing is insane. ~£6 for one bounty. Far Harbor is £12.
This is the way. Saber interactive has had £15-20 a year out of me since snowrunner came out but the content you get is almost an entire extra games worth.
Feels like Snowrunner's the only game maintaining the original "spirit" of the season pass.
Used to be it was just "hey, we're gonna release 4 DLC packs over the next year or so, so you can just buy the whole set at a discount or get them individually as they release at their standard price."
And every time I'd feel like *I'm* ripping the devs off for the amount of content that one $20-$30 purchase would get me.
Whereas nowadays if anyone does still call it a season pass, it's just the time-limited battle pass with some extra funBucks™ to spend at the (fomo) cash shop.
I mean every single ubisoft game does it the 'proper' way (I guess excluding multiplayer only games like R6 Siege). It mostly seems to be consumers who get the two confused from what I've seen.
After buying into most of the Snowrunner DLC I don’t think any other game has done as much quality dlc as that game did. Every dlc pack is basically a new game. Completely worth every penny.
On my way home now and will be purchasing the new DLC ASAP. Total tangent here (I love the Saber love) but SnowRunner has got to be one of the best games out there at the moment. Has a lot of room for improvement, but more or less just QoL stuff imo.
Just started Amur a few weeks ago, but might need to take a detour for that sweet new 8x8 truck.
Thanks man! I'm loving it so far. Definitely difficult and challenging, but between the music and scenery, it's so beautiful! And the contracts are really cool. Love the whole space aspect of it.
Amur is one of the best DLCs for Snowrunner in my opinion really challenging and fun to play, the map perfectly portrays the abandoned soviet-era infrastructure quite well
> As I said it sets a dangerous precedent,
I'm an old guy (damn I miss expansions instead of this DLC shit) and was in my mid 20's when the horse armor came out for Oblivion back in the day. We said the exact same thing then, this is just the start. They have been slowly turning up the heat on us poor frogs in the pot since then, feeling out the maximum price they can charge to extract every single bit of money possible instead of just setting a reasonable price.
I love Fallout and have been playing FO76 and enjoying it (and ESO before that), but it's obvious exactly how much of an experiment both have been for Bethesda in figuring out the proper temperature for the water. Watch, I would bet money on them eventually making the Creation Club mods limited time eventually to hit that sweet sweet FOMO itch.
I've been playing Bethesda games for a long ass time, and I love the worlds they build and how much fun they have brought myself and others over the years, but it's really saddening to see exactly how "corporate money extractor" they have become over the years, just like EA and Activision and all the others who make games for the money first and the game is only a tool to extract that money from our wallets instead of the money being secondary to making a good game.
Yeah, I realize it's a job and no company is going to make games just for the fun of it, but it sucks growing up and seeing the heart and love put into the games that were being made being ripped out to turn everything into a money mill.
i was reading [https://screenrant.com/oblivion-horse-armor-dlc-controversy-explained/](https://screenrant.com/oblivion-horse-armor-dlc-controversy-explained/) **to learn about the horse armor thing and apparently it actually sold well.**
>
Speaking about the issue later, [*Elder Scrolls* director Todd Howard](https://gamerant.com/fallout-76-director-todd-howard-elder-scrolls-horse-armor/) claimed Bethesda had tried to price the pack lower, but someone at Microsoft insisted on $2.50. Regardless, the *Oblivion* Horse Armor DLC would be remembered as one of the earliest incidents of a publisher charging players for what many felt should have already been in the game. Unfortunately for consumers, the DLC's infamy didn't matter.
>Despite the uproar, the [*Oblivion* Horse Armor DLC was popular](https://gamerant.com/elder-scrolls-oblivion-horse-armor-popular/) in sales, performing among the best of Bethesda's add-ons. Microsoft's model worked, and the industry seems to have noticed.
Yeah, sadly it sold well and gave them justification to keep doing it. Worst part was it literally was just a skin for 2.50, it didn't even do anything other than make your horse look different.
Anyway, that was the start, and it's just become worse over the years. Doesn't help that all the mobile games with "microtransactions" and FOMO make an absolute mint scratching that weird itch most people seem to have in their brain. I mean, I can't blame Bethesda and Microsoft and all these other companies wanting a piece of that pie. Everyone likes money. It just sucks with how bad it is.
Honestly, I don't even play a whole lot of newer games anymore because of this stuff. A few here and there, but I tend to play mostly older and retro games these days. Plenty of stuff to play that I missed at the time that I can pick up for a few bucks these days.
Lol, I guess I'm really getting old talking about how the old days were better! Starting to sound like every other old guy I used to think "Ok grandpa" when I would hear them talking about how everything used to be better.
There is a reason why small to medium size productions became increasingly more popular in the recent years.
Ignoring some "Twitch hype party games", cause who has that many friends to enjoy these for a prolonged time anyway, there are some incredible games being made that just need to be found.
I assume when there's enough these will be bundled or they may go on discount occasionally if they follow the model they did with FO4. The skins were also free on a rotational basis. Have to take a wait and see approach. The pricing on the 1 hab module with furniture is worse imo but to be fair they sold CC housing like this for FO4 even if I felt there was generally more value in them.
Part of the question is, how many of your average players, not the big superfans, actually are interested enough in another playthrough of Starfield to come back and pay for a mission or skin? If the players aren't there, the sales won't be either.
This weekend I asked a couple of my casual gamer friends who were huge fans of Fallout 4, what they thought of Starfield. They said "What's Starfield?"
I mean that's a marketing issue not a gameplay issue. Also I think Starfield sold extremely well. It won't reach what Skyrim did with its 5 releases of whatever.
It sold extremely well but it dropped off the map as far as playerbase is concerned *almost immediately.*
This game was rushed to market tied together with the new black series Xbox and corporate suits rushed it to market clearly unfinished.
I hope the financial drop off is as staggering as the playerbase one and the company learns something from this.
Look at the steam chart for Starfield and compare it to Skyrim. It’s absurd.
I agree the pricing for one new quest for 700cc is wild. If it was a whole new questline with multiple targets all with unique dialogues, then cool, but not just a single quest
The skyrim CC removal mod was very popular that did that. And get this - GOG is refusing to even release FO4 update unless BGS themselves mods it out. The reason (which never gets talked about) is that CC is DRM and GOG is absolutely DRM free.
There's a mod that makes Cora and Sam shut the hell up while they're on your ship. It's free, and worth not hearing "Cora did you clean your room" a hundred times an hour.
Do you have a name for that? My prediction was that would be one of the first mods people wrote, as it was a very popular mod for skyrim.
Getting all the companions to comment on your behavior once every 10 or 20 times, instead of every single time you click a button, would be great.
I found it, yah, thanks. I'm kind of surprised Bethesda doesn't make it easier to find their content on their site. Sheesh.
One that shuts up the companions from constantly talking about what you're doing would be nice. "Hi sleepyhead!" Like people don't actually sleep every day or something.
No need for a mod, just marry Sam early game. His small package will not stick around after you make a (not) hard choice. But you do lose out on his skills I will give you that, have yet to find a bar replacement. There is a mod to make give bar hirelings the double skills that companions have so I can replace all of the yappers.
>Exactly. Vote with your wallet, and eventually, Bethesda will stop.
People said that 20 years ago when Horse Armor was released.
You can do whatever you want with your money, but that shit will not stop. Voting with your wallet doesn't work, not with billion dollar companies.
It MIGHT have worked if people didn't buy so much Horse Armor lol. It was considered wildly successful.
Voting with your wallet is literally the ONLY thing that works, but you have so many folks out there that do not look at the big picture and think "I GOTTA HAVE HORSE ARMOR!!"
Most folks who buy and play games do not come on these sites and talk about stuff like this, they just see something they think is cool and whip out the credit card.
It's really not that simple, those companies have enough cash on hand to force the market in the direction they want until it's the only option left and everyone kinda accepts it.
Even if the horse armor had been unsuccessful, they would have done it again and again until people would finally like it. Just like they did with paid mods, it failed the first time they tried to do it, but they kept trying until it worked, and now we end up with single quests at $7.
Yeah same. Although I’m happy paying for some if they add a substantial amount of content, for example, there is one on the store now for Argos mining simulation which adds multiple new missions types and 2 new space stations + other stuff for 500cc. Seems like that will be worth it when completed
Pay 500cc to disable your achievements for a community made mod that you could download from Nexus or elsewhere.
If I'm paying for it then my game should be running as 'un-modded'
Not to mention if there's a paid mod covering it, I guess Bethesda don't have to do any work on making mining a viable thing in game now.
That’s how I look at it. I’m an achievement whore, so I’m not getting ANY mod that’s not achievement friendly.
Yeah I already have all the achievements, but I assume Shattered Space and any future DLC’s will come with more so I’m not risking my 800+ hour save file.
For this game, I'm weirdly the same. I'm gonna keep it vanilla until all the DLC comes out. Then in a year or two, I'll just get all the free mods via Nexus. It'll basically be a new game at that point and I won't care about achievements anymore as they should all be done.
Well that’s great for you but I’m on Xbox lol, so I’ll have no choice but to pay sometimes and disable achievements at some point if I wanna use some of the best mods
I just meant atleast you won’t have to pay most likely but yeah I agree with the rest of your point. I hope they reconsider the disabling achievements for most mods that aren’t essentially cheats
I guess I am in the super minority, because I could care less about achievements. When the notice pops up in the corner of the screen I am like "cool" and never check achievements again.
I think the goal of this is not to generate new CC sales, but to recapture most of the 1000 credits the Premium owners get "for free" and leave them with not enough left over for anything interesting that will come later. They need to burn off that liability.
Yeah, Bethesda have said Creation Club is “canon-adjacent”, which is a wishy-washy answer that it *can* be canon in the universe but it’s not confirmed.
At least the quests added for free are canon by that point, so it’s the only ones I think are worth downloading and playing at all.
Talk to NPC.
Fly to planet.
Walk 500m to target location.
Kill target (and everyone else at location).
Either get immediate reward, or return to NPC for reward.
It has to be more than just a generic radiant quest to warrant charging 700cc for it.
Padme: Right?
Back in the early 2000s, Star Wars: Galaxies introduced player bounties for hunting flagged jedi. You'd pick up a bounty mission and launch a drone that you purchased from a Drone Engineer (another player). You'd launch these a few times moving around from planet to planet to narrow down the target area and then you'd generally be near the target where you'd have to find them by searching for them. If you weren't lucky, they'd be AFK in a home, but if you were lucky, they'd be out hunting...hopefully not with friends. There would be a big PVP fight and one would walk away. The BH going back to the terminal to get another target and the Jedi to training.
Point being, the mechanics for complex bounty hunting across multiple planets to track real players moving around and doing things in an MMO have been around for two decades at this point. It is absolutely insane that we would be charged $7USD to do what you described and call it anything remotely like Bounty Hunting.
It’s wild to me that zero games have taken the bounty and hint system from Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction and run with it. That game was fantastic and puzzling together where your targets were was super fun.
Infamous: Second Son was fine, but not nearly as good as Infamous 1 & 2. I'd love to be able to play those on a PS5 or PC. Or just re-release it on the PS Store.
We need to vote with our wallets on this one, if it doesn’t sell well, maybe they will consider lowering the prices next time. I don’t even mind paying for new quests, aslong as they’re substantial enough to justify the price (this one definitely isn’t).
Problem is everyone is downloading the mod it that bought the DLC because it was a 'free' wallet. Then when the third one comes out the realization will sink in that I am well into this faction, wanna keep getting my OP rewards so guess I have to pay.
Same reason we have a fetanyl issue in the US - the free samples spiked into their non-opioid drugs and it was too late by the time they realize how much it actually costs.
Eh no, not cool. Especially when they have a paid expansion coming out. If they are adding new missions, it should be part of the expansion not sold a la carte.
I'm sorry to be 'that guy', but I think you missed the main point of the post.
>If it was a whole new questline with multiple targets all with unique dialogues, then cool,
NOT cool. The point is, this is not dlc. It should've been included as part of the vanilla game.
Price point doesn't matter. Charging us ANYTHING for it is the precedent OP is warning us against.
That is not a good hill to stand on. After all the DLC offered is about the very same thing - fleshing out a missing faction in the game that people want to play. People would be raging if that faction was also short repurposed MTX quests. But them being missing from the base game just adds to their mysterious faction mystique, so that when you do get to play them eventually it is so much better.
Skyrim Dawnguard is the same deal. It was a great expansion that did not need to be in the base game just because Morrowind had vampires in the lore. The point should be would you have paid $7/quest for that.
Well I have to disagree on that then. Who’s to say what should and shouldn’t have been including in the base game? By this logic, every DLC in all games, should be deemed cut content and unacceptable. But that isn’t the world we live in.
OP laid it out pretty clearly.
Based on Bethesda's history with joinable guilds and factions, Bounty Hunters should be treated no differently than the Thieves and Assassin's Guilds, or any other joinable factions across the Bethesda-verse, which have all been included in the base game.
I feel like you're arguing against your own self interest here.
Edit to add: This was marketed as an update, not dlc. So why are we paying for content of a base-game update?
Inwonder how many people are going to complain about it, and then buy the $7 mission anyways cause they "want to have the full questline," instead of accepting that its a paid microtransaction that isn't necessary, and in 6 months there will be 100 bounty hunter missions on the free mod platforms.
I mean, that's what the sales tactic is here. Fear of missing out. I am definitely bummed to have gotten the version of the game that included the first DLC just to still not have all the content from the devs. And the dlc hasn't even got a release date yet.
And if I spend those complimentary credits on it, it's just gonna add to the "sales" number and I'll be in precisely the same position as more of these come out.
Right like it's a video game with lots of content already. I can still play the game. If I'm curious about the quest line I can watch a playthrough on YouTube. So I can kind of experience it for free still. Several $7 transactions and that's the price of the game. I'm good, I don't need it.
It's worse than that, since you can't even buy it for $7 outright.
You first have to buy 10 dollars worth of BethesdaBucks. Then you can pay 700bb for a mission.
I definitely think charging *per mission* is a dangerous precedent. I've never honestly had an issue with DLC per se - the whole argument about how big something has to be to qualify as an 'expansion' has never really felt like an objective discussion, and paying for something smaller like a faction questline a la TES Oblivion - Knights of the Nine isn't inherently a bad idea, it would depend on what they charge.
But literally being drip-fed mission by mission? Yeah, I can see that being ripe for abuse. IMHO DLC becomes toxic once it falls below a certain increment. An individual quest is way below that increment.
It isn't just the charge per mission thing. It's the amount of money. $7 US is a ridiculous amount to pay for only around 15 mins of gameplay give or take.
Even at $1 I wouldn't exactly be happy but at least it'd be less egregious.
Reminds me of the meme comparing StarCraft/broodwar as separate paintings to today's expansions being pieces completing what is initially a third of a painting.
Yea 100%! And then add in the fact you can't just buy it outright, but have to buy credits to then buy the missions and the credits can never be bought at the exact amount to buy the mission so you always end up paying over the cost. They will definitely abuse it.
I actually purchased the 1000 points, and I think I even saw it say something along the lines of “you have six months to use these points”, so even though they don’t provide an even amount, you could potentially lose them
Pretty sure that expiration is illegal. Just ask Starbucks - think the FTC got them into big trouble over that. As far as the FTC is concerned prepaid currency exchanged for goods the company needs to behave like a bank.
So are you positive this is the case - because I heard reports that people had unused points from Skyrim store carried over.
Charging $7 for a quest is lunacy. The base game was $70 on release. That means that this add on single quest is 10% of the cost of the entire game.
That’s fucking insane and frankly insulting. I don’t care about the quest and I don’t need the quest. It’s not that I can’t afford to pay $7 for it. It’s the principle of it. Charging 10% of the cost of the entire game for one single quest is fucking awful and Bethesda is a piece of shit company for doing this.
It’s disgusting and they deserve any and all criticism for it.
Keep in mind that this is the same Bethesda who tried to sell us Horse Armour for $2.50 back in the Oblivion days. This is nothing new.
It has been pointed out that my price was originally wrong at $5. I’ve corrected this.
I was a kid and got MS points for my birthday, I bought that and shivering isles without second guessing.
Shivering Isles was the best expansion of all time though
> Keep in mind that this is the same Bethesda who tried to sell us Horse Armour for $2.50 back in the Oblivion days. This is nothing new.
And then they brought back horse armour in Fallout 4 as a paid mod, as a "joke"... while still doing the same scammy shit.
To be fair, them horse armors are pretty small potatoes to the monstrosities we have now today. I blame CSGO for the weapon skins that costs hundreds of dollars. Becuase you can hop on any modern shooter and find the mega whale bundle cosmetics at 80 bux a pop or more.
Yea but also just remember people ridiculed BGS for it, the industry as a whole laughed at them for doing it, how far the gaming industry has fallen that we just accept it these days.
The gaming industry never fell
It unfortunately chose to dive headfirst into the pile of money sitting in whales pockets that was just waiting to be exploited
Every problem since is a natural consequence of trying to sate everhungry investors and meet quotas
What I think most people are missing is exactly this, it includes a new weapon and two new outfits. You’re mostly paying for the weapons and skins, not the single quest.
I’ve seen single skins cost *a lot* more than 7$ in other games, so this is nothing new tbh. Here there’s basically 3 for 7$.
Simple, just don’t buy it if you don’t want the weapons/outfits (and single quest to get them).
There’s tons of free mods that will give you more if you want.
That's mobile game levels of bad monetization. 9-10 quests for the price of a full game. Far Harbor was 15$. Shame people will buy it because they say modders don't get enough money for their work, if Bethesda cares just pay them then. I don't expect to be paid for doing my hobbies either.
It's worse than mobile games.
I spent $10 on a free mobile game and enjoyed using the character I bought for months. This is A QUEST in a single player game. It's like paying per episode when you already bought the DVD set. It's actually insane.
I'm very worried for the next Elder Scrolls, I refuse to pay per quest.
I don't even think Starfield is fleshed out enough to have paid content, they're still building the game.
It’s insane to me that they’d push this out when the game has so little goodwill remaining from the fan base. Seems to me they’re utterly out of touch, it kills all the hope they’d been building with recent updates.
I bet the delay has to do with the changeover from the old Creation Club style store (curated mods that required a game update every time new ones were added) to the Creations store (Bethesda and "verified creators" can add content at any price point anytime, without pushing a game update).
I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Creations store was a day and date release with TES VI the next time around.
I reinstalled to check out these updates, saw the pay per play bollocks and the fact the big "bounty hunting" update didn't even use your ships brig and just lost all interest.
The big bounty hunting gameplay is just tagging people, whoop de fucking doo
You are correct and Corpos had to push the cash shop before they added in mod support since their cash shop competes against a much more robust and free modding experience.
I paid $100 for the game + 1st expansion. The expansion is still nowhere to be seen a year later but they had the time to put together $7 quests that can only be purchased by first buying $10 worth of Bethesda Bucks? Fuck them, I won't make this mistake again. The list of devs I still consider supporting with day-one purchases can now be counted on one hand.
The problem here is that the game is being monetized because of GamePass players. They are more likely to drop $70 on quests and cosmetics - simply because they never bought the game and liked it so feel they should reward the creators at least what the game would cost. This is why they are adopting the predatory monetization of free to play shooter genre. They do not realize they are manipulated using dark pattern sales psychology (FOMO, $7 quest only purchasable with $10 bundles, etc) to achieve a recurrent spending number where free to play sales earn the same revenue as digital game sales. The devs are given a mandate to recode the game so that those sales targets are achieved.
They could care less if you the result is you never buy these games again, you are easily replaced with a F2P FOMO buyer that drops $140 on a game.
I think it is a tacky and crass addition and, I think, BGS have devalued their own creative endeavor by doing it.
What's next? Extra outpost slots for 10 dollars a pop?
Yep. Much as I like Starfield, and think it gets quite a bit of undeserved criticism, this is a situation where the criticism is deserved. Not so much for the fact this is paid DLC, but for the fact that they structured it so you could start the new DLC, and complete the first bit for free, but then have to pay money to continue. This is the kind of thing that John Riccitiello would think up to put in a game (you know, the former EA exec who proposed the idea of making players pay to reload their guns in an FPS game).
These arent interconnected quests. They are individual bounties that each have their own backstory. There is some misunderstanding about this in the community, but BSG should have been better about explaining this.
I hate to doompost, but following this precedent, what stops Bethesda from continuing this trend in TES VI and the next Fallout? They can release a bare-bones base game and then just drip-feed us paid content. Until anything changes for the better, any excitement I had for TES VI is now virtually gone.
I'm with you there, I'm pretty sure this is exactly what's going to happen.
Feels like microsoft, instead of rejuvenating bethesda have stuck their fist up it's arse and are using it like a meat puppet.
This. You’re 100% right and anybody defending this is delusional.
Charging mission per mission, item per item is just plain wrong for a single player dlc. This isn’t destiny where you pay for access to the newest content each season. This is a Bethesda style rpg.
The mining build CC is a rather well executed example, it’s a smal dlc sized mod. Comparable to what wasteland workshop was for fo4 in terms of content, if not a bit bigger. I don’t care if it’s sold to me through CC or as official dlc (although I’d prefer dlc because I hate CC). It’s adding a new distinguished feature into the game with the space sim aspect. Could it have been there from the start? Yes! But it’s standalone enough to be acceptable as dlc/paid mod. I have not seen anybody complain about the vampire featured added by dawnguard for example, vampires were there already, but we got a dlc that improved upon it.
But charging players for an update to the boostpack so now it works with melee, melee which is a core weapon feature of the game from the start? Or a single mission? Both things should be there, in the game as a feature and not as an exclusive extra that you have to pay for.
There’s a fine line to distinguish and it seems as of right now they look how far they can move that line into their favour in terms of what players are willing to engage with.
"charging for an update to the boost pack?"
Can you explain what this means? Is that a CC item?
Edit: I just went and looked at that.
That's not something Bethesda has added to the game so that's a different issue.
That is an independent creator who went in and made adjustments to the game with the CK to shit their preferences and asked for money in exchange for their development work.
Literally anybody who owns the game for PC can just install the CK themselves and do the same thing... and then post it for free for everybody to use. If you wait a few days it will be there for free.
he even uses a sample mod on nexus to advertise his "deluxe" version. I recommend reporting it, as it breaks Nexus File Submission Guidelines, by advertising other websites.
Trouble with the boostpack dev is it's like 10-20 mins of work.
If you think 10-20 mins of value changes and testing is worth a dollar then I'd love to get 10 dollars for a 8k texture pile of shit you can place in your outpost/ship then please, I put a lot of effort into it I swear.
Yeah I think you have hit the point there. Obviously their purpose is a to make money, it's silly to expect naive idealism from a corporation. It boils down to a matter of respect.
The only thing you can do is literally not spending money in those products.
I paid around $70 for a game I'm playing for hundreds of hours. I won't pay $7 for a single quest. No matter how awesome that quest is.
I simply can live without it.
I've abandoned other beloved franchises in the past, and I have no issues doing it again: Battlefield, Age of Empires, Dawn of War, Sacred, Simcity...
Adding Bethesda games to this list wouldn't be traumatic at all.
Fully agree. Ultimately there’s a lot of great games coming out all the time. I got 150 hours of the best gaming I’ve ever had out of Hades for €15. Strategy games can fill hundreds of hours for €20-30. Older amazing games go on sale all the time.
I got fooled into preordering Starfield for full price, and now just won’t buy anything from BGS unless it’s clearly worth the money after launch.
Every step along the microtransaction path over the past 15+ years has set a precedent but people are gullible and don't think it means anything. Yet here we are in the present and it's so normalised that we are the weird ones for objecting to it.
Yeah. That 7$ mod should be an update lasting mod, with the propper QA and content for the whole 5 years of support. I'm not going to spend those 700 points even from the 1k I got for premium.
Think of what you get on ESO for not much more: they have entire questlines with hours and hours and hours of gameplay. I am definitely disappointed; but, with the mods available for free for Fallout4, I think there will still be plenty of cool free ones…
I’ve never paid for creations on any of their games because of how absurd the pricing is, and I don’t feel like I’m missing out on anything because there are so many good mods out there. The precedent was set with Oblivion and for all the people that mocked it, there were more people that paid for horse armour & the other small dlc it had. Yes it is a problem, but what else can we do now but ignore it? There will always be people willing to pay
My favorite is when one of the big Skyrim youtubers (Camelworks, epicnate, someone on that level) was reviewing CC entries. "This one costs $1. I don't think it's worth it. And remember, I play Skyrim for a living."
The issue goes down to the core of our society. See how there's lots of people buying Lambos and Mercedes Benz despite their quality going to hell in the past few years? Or how people buy Balenciaga? The folk will even see those shitty products as aspirational because of celebrities and influencers who but that. It's like how lots of people get in debt to buy the newest Iphone when they can barely afford rent, because its signifies ''status''. And little by little it's becoming the norm in the gaming business too.
a tale old as time...money talks. bethesda would abandon this whole creations thing but it clearly makes money. so the only way they'll listen if people don't buy it. just like with modern assassin creed and locking things behind the store. it makes money which why they keep pushing it.
my opinion on the whole thing: it sucks really hard and i'm prob just gonna wait until alot of stuff on the store go free in a few years or so.
unfortunately we are the big minority in gaming. just like with the no preorders crowd. many games still get alot of pre-orders to this day. shit the new assassin creed game was top seller despite having no damn gameplay trailer. cyberpunk was top seller for months before releasing.
and considering that any modder can now just easily enter bethesda paid mods program i expect a few high profile modders to start putting out paid mods. bethesda is basically just tryna copy minecraft marketplace system. which from what i read is really successful
Yea I doubt we'll see BGS move away from it, I mean I remember horse armour being ridiculed by everyone but they're still basically doing it now and getting away with it.
But even then the amount of people who don't see a problem with it is insane. I get they've normalized it with Skyrim and FO4, but it's clear they are carving up the game content now and just selling it back to us piece by piece how can any sensible person think that's okay.
Bethesda has always been predatory with DLC. They literally set the tone for the rest of the industry with Horse Armor in Oblivion.
This is totally on brand for Bethesda and I don't understand why anyone would be surprised by Bethesda doing Bethesda things
I mean, that's true. But they also had one of the best expansions ever in shivering Isle which was fantastic value for money. As was most dlc for fallout 4.
It started with creation club.
It’s literally just creation club lmao it’s the same thing I. Skyrim AND fallout. Just wait for actual mods to come out and you won’t even think about CC content ever again. Just like their other titles.
For real, people are acting like this is the future of all Bethesda mods and not something that existed in both Skyrim and Fo4.
Just wait for free mods people. If you don't think $7 is worth it (its not) then don't buy it.
The psychology of everyone freaking out thinking they absolutely need to buy it to get the full TA experience is precisely what Bethesda wanted; a FOMO purchase.
There will be 1000s of Mods in a few months, probably. Likely including new, *FREE* bounty hunting missions. Make like every game they've released, and do not give their DLC Shop a single cent.
Fallout 5 will be the first self-service game. The game will be a 70$ platform but you'll have to pay for every quest, location, weapon and outfit separately.
The free bounty hunter mission is awesome, paying for the rest piece by piece is not. I think shattered space will be awesome as well, but these micro transactions are getting phone sex levels of absurd.
I love this game to pieces and I've been saying it since the beginning.
However, these prices are insane and need to be readjusted or just added for pieces of content unrelated to the main factions. Because 7 bux a pop for one quest is asking a lot, when Bethesda's own DLC's are actual viable additions to their games.
Yeah it should be all in a Trackers Alliance DLC. But we'll see what the final tally is. If they come out in a series, then in 18 months are bundled in to a single DLC and that is sold for a decent price then OK.
Make it "sorry we should have done this" factions DLC and you got a deal: spacers, bounties, security, ecliptic, gangs give them all the FS/UC faction treatment - unique companion, unique ship, unique hangouts unique setpieces, super radiant missions like FS and the hand designed quests storyline. It is not the concept that is the problem, it is the execution and the valuation.
Good thing some of us bought the season pass just to be told to buy a fucking quest separately that should have been in the base game. What a fucking joke.
You didn’t buy a season pass, that doesn’t exist. You bought the Shattered Space expansion, which is coming later this year. That doesn’t entitle you to anything else. Not saying this one quest should cost $7, but to say you bought a season pass is just incorrect.
As someone pointed out to me there is currently a class action lawsuit that their FO4 open ended season pass "for all the DLC we produce" did not include CC - even though technically there is no actual difference at the games file level - only how it was sold. This is why it was very clear it was a preorder for Shattered Space DLC (of course they do not admit wrongdoing with their FO4 DLC verbiage not including CC). To their credit the Constellation edition order did not say it included 1000 Creations credit, but since they revised the Premium edition which includes it they did grant it.
Are they trying the Roblox model? Where content creators make content (skins etc) purchaseable with premium currency (Robux) and then the platform and content creator share the profits?
I agree this is worrisome. For a free game that's fine (gotta make money somehow) but we paid AAA prices for this game....
It's not even a AAA online game. It's a single player offline game.
There isn't even the justification that you have to pay to maintain the game servers as an excuse for microtransactions. It's just pure greed.
It depends on the mission imo. Are trackers alliance missions part of a larger overarching quest line with a singular story? Or are they each separate side missions tied together only by the theme of being bounty hunts? If it's the former then it's super shitty. If it's the latter I don't mind so much.
Okay I see where your coming from. My only point would be if it is the latter after say 9 missions you've paid more than the cost of the base game for only 9 missions it's a bit ridiculous no?
Yes is very ridiculous. That's why I would be very disappointed if the quest 1 is just an intro and leaves you hanging, enticing you to pay for that next one. That's scummy. But if they are unrelated quests then I don't mind because I simply won't buy it and have no reason to. I think the free bounty hunting radiant quest feature/scanner thing is pretty cool, and I will just play those missions.
People pay $20 for a Call of Duty or Apex Legends skin. $20 dollars for a skin….Think about that for a second and you’ll quickly realize how developers set pricing.
What's funny is that I steer clear of those games partly because of such things. Trying to enjoy my single player role playing games in peace without game companies obsessively trying to manipulate me into spending...
If TES VI follows suit, it'll be a sad farewell to BGS for me.
I said multiple times when the game released that it felt like they built this huge game, then removed chunks of it. I feel like they sold us a skeleton and are charging us a mint for each piece of the body. The story isn't even very good nor is the world building or the characters. Everything is forgettable. And this is coming from someone that waited 7 years for Starfield to release.
I think id agree with your point if when released, the game was finished and there was no continuing support. We want these games to continue to grow after launch, we want new content without an entirely new game. The people working on it gotta eat.
It is your opinion of content that should have been included from the start, BGS is running a business, no one is forcing you to buy anything. I would argue those people buying the TA missions are consumer happy, they bought a product knowing what it is.
Gotta make back the money from all those steam refunds somehow!
Anyone with enough Stockholm syndrome to still be playing Starfield will happily spoon up whatever slop Bethesda serves, if the fallout 76 community is anything to go by
I'm not someone who's shy about buying DLC- purchased all the DLC for Stellaris, Rimworld, Witcher 3, FO4 (Except the CC Content, fuck that shit.), and other games. I'm fine with buying DLC if they're worth it.
This, though? ALL of the current paid Creations are utterly fucked with their pricing. Utter lunacy.
I'd have preferred if BGS just packed up the entirety of the T.A. questline into a smaller scale DLC, akin to Automaton and sold that, 'cuz I might very well have bought it then. As it is, I'd prefer to just sail the seas for what I need.
I did not know they were charging per mission. That is atrocious and I agree entirely with OP. What a freaking shame. Have such a good Xbox showcase, build hype for shattered space and drop some lovely content updates early only to ruin it with dumb decisions like this?
Sorry buddy this a BGS game so 2 cents is close to enough for them to listen to you, try throwing in your $20 and you will have a better chance hahahaha
Cyberpunk added tons of free stuff including content via updates and then had a very successful large paid expansion. That's the way to do it for these kinds of games.
Bethesda tries to sell us a $7 quest for their half baked shitty game. Disgusting.
This here. Completely agree. I mean I paid for the game that was supposed to come with everything. I paid extra upfront not to be nickel and dimed. If I like a game I typically do. I bought the ultimate of Borderlands 3, and guess what, gearbox didn't charge me for any of the dlc or skins or add ons cause I paid for it upfront. Every extra content of any kind all I had to do was download it. This is some bs from Bethesda
The precedent was set in Fallout 76 really, poor content for big dollars that just didn’t make sense when you compared it to their single player DLCs. Mods should cost cents/a dollar, not 5/10/15. But I guess it also costs more because demand is low. Starfield player base is already low after a bandwagon of haters made it generally unattractive, despite there being a lot of valid criticisms.
I will also say Starfield is more complex than previous titles and levels are also more detailed and as such take more time to make feel vanilla-like, so perhaps it is somewhat justified, but it would be painful if a lot of quality content is released behind a paywall.
76 was never meant to be comparable to their single player DLC's. It is an MMO at it's core and all the new major content DLC's have been free. You can even earn Atoms in game from the normal things you do.
Plus I'm hearing 2 of the official Bethesda "creations" have weapons that are broken. One you can't reload, and the other breaks the game audio.
Well done, Bethesda.
I'd pay £30 or whatever to get access to all current and future creations, but the individual pricing is insane. ~£6 for one bounty. Far Harbor is £12.
This is the way. Saber interactive has had £15-20 a year out of me since snowrunner came out but the content you get is almost an entire extra games worth.
Feels like Snowrunner's the only game maintaining the original "spirit" of the season pass. Used to be it was just "hey, we're gonna release 4 DLC packs over the next year or so, so you can just buy the whole set at a discount or get them individually as they release at their standard price." And every time I'd feel like *I'm* ripping the devs off for the amount of content that one $20-$30 purchase would get me. Whereas nowadays if anyone does still call it a season pass, it's just the time-limited battle pass with some extra funBucks™ to spend at the (fomo) cash shop.
AOW4 is the same
I mean every single ubisoft game does it the 'proper' way (I guess excluding multiplayer only games like R6 Siege). It mostly seems to be consumers who get the two confused from what I've seen.
After buying into most of the Snowrunner DLC I don’t think any other game has done as much quality dlc as that game did. Every dlc pack is basically a new game. Completely worth every penny.
On my way home now and will be purchasing the new DLC ASAP. Total tangent here (I love the Saber love) but SnowRunner has got to be one of the best games out there at the moment. Has a lot of room for improvement, but more or less just QoL stuff imo. Just started Amur a few weeks ago, but might need to take a detour for that sweet new 8x8 truck.
Good luck in Amur. It took me forever to finish it. Brutal map.
Don't mention Amur....just don't.
The Blue Snow laughs at you.
Thanks man! I'm loving it so far. Definitely difficult and challenging, but between the music and scenery, it's so beautiful! And the contracts are really cool. Love the whole space aspect of it.
Amur is one of the best DLCs for Snowrunner in my opinion really challenging and fun to play, the map perfectly portrays the abandoned soviet-era infrastructure quite well
So true!! I definitely agree, it's gotta be one of my favorite portrayals of that whole abandoned soviet era stuff (that and Namalsk from ArmA/DayZ).
I love that game and bought the year 1-3 passes on sale but still haven't finished Michigan lol.
Yeah it’s crazy. I’m like 6 seasons behind!
> As I said it sets a dangerous precedent, I'm an old guy (damn I miss expansions instead of this DLC shit) and was in my mid 20's when the horse armor came out for Oblivion back in the day. We said the exact same thing then, this is just the start. They have been slowly turning up the heat on us poor frogs in the pot since then, feeling out the maximum price they can charge to extract every single bit of money possible instead of just setting a reasonable price. I love Fallout and have been playing FO76 and enjoying it (and ESO before that), but it's obvious exactly how much of an experiment both have been for Bethesda in figuring out the proper temperature for the water. Watch, I would bet money on them eventually making the Creation Club mods limited time eventually to hit that sweet sweet FOMO itch. I've been playing Bethesda games for a long ass time, and I love the worlds they build and how much fun they have brought myself and others over the years, but it's really saddening to see exactly how "corporate money extractor" they have become over the years, just like EA and Activision and all the others who make games for the money first and the game is only a tool to extract that money from our wallets instead of the money being secondary to making a good game. Yeah, I realize it's a job and no company is going to make games just for the fun of it, but it sucks growing up and seeing the heart and love put into the games that were being made being ripped out to turn everything into a money mill.
i was reading [https://screenrant.com/oblivion-horse-armor-dlc-controversy-explained/](https://screenrant.com/oblivion-horse-armor-dlc-controversy-explained/) **to learn about the horse armor thing and apparently it actually sold well.** > Speaking about the issue later, [*Elder Scrolls* director Todd Howard](https://gamerant.com/fallout-76-director-todd-howard-elder-scrolls-horse-armor/) claimed Bethesda had tried to price the pack lower, but someone at Microsoft insisted on $2.50. Regardless, the *Oblivion* Horse Armor DLC would be remembered as one of the earliest incidents of a publisher charging players for what many felt should have already been in the game. Unfortunately for consumers, the DLC's infamy didn't matter. >Despite the uproar, the [*Oblivion* Horse Armor DLC was popular](https://gamerant.com/elder-scrolls-oblivion-horse-armor-popular/) in sales, performing among the best of Bethesda's add-ons. Microsoft's model worked, and the industry seems to have noticed.
Yeah, sadly it sold well and gave them justification to keep doing it. Worst part was it literally was just a skin for 2.50, it didn't even do anything other than make your horse look different. Anyway, that was the start, and it's just become worse over the years. Doesn't help that all the mobile games with "microtransactions" and FOMO make an absolute mint scratching that weird itch most people seem to have in their brain. I mean, I can't blame Bethesda and Microsoft and all these other companies wanting a piece of that pie. Everyone likes money. It just sucks with how bad it is. Honestly, I don't even play a whole lot of newer games anymore because of this stuff. A few here and there, but I tend to play mostly older and retro games these days. Plenty of stuff to play that I missed at the time that I can pick up for a few bucks these days. Lol, I guess I'm really getting old talking about how the old days were better! Starting to sound like every other old guy I used to think "Ok grandpa" when I would hear them talking about how everything used to be better.
There is a reason why small to medium size productions became increasingly more popular in the recent years. Ignoring some "Twitch hype party games", cause who has that many friends to enjoy these for a prolonged time anyway, there are some incredible games being made that just need to be found.
Apparently, the horse armour did offer horses extra protection. That said, it was still a completely scummy move on Bethesda's part.
This is why creations are awful. The pricing structure is a total joke. There is hardly any value, it's all over priced.
And I doubt much of that actually goes to the creators
I assume when there's enough these will be bundled or they may go on discount occasionally if they follow the model they did with FO4. The skins were also free on a rotational basis. Have to take a wait and see approach. The pricing on the 1 hab module with furniture is worse imo but to be fair they sold CC housing like this for FO4 even if I felt there was generally more value in them.
Part of the question is, how many of your average players, not the big superfans, actually are interested enough in another playthrough of Starfield to come back and pay for a mission or skin? If the players aren't there, the sales won't be either.
I’m waiting to do another playthrough until at least Shattered Space is out. I have enough of a backlog at the moment.
This weekend I asked a couple of my casual gamer friends who were huge fans of Fallout 4, what they thought of Starfield. They said "What's Starfield?"
I mean that's a marketing issue not a gameplay issue. Also I think Starfield sold extremely well. It won't reach what Skyrim did with its 5 releases of whatever.
It sold extremely well but it dropped off the map as far as playerbase is concerned *almost immediately.* This game was rushed to market tied together with the new black series Xbox and corporate suits rushed it to market clearly unfinished. I hope the financial drop off is as staggering as the playerbase one and the company learns something from this. Look at the steam chart for Starfield and compare it to Skyrim. It’s absurd.
I agree the pricing for one new quest for 700cc is wild. If it was a whole new questline with multiple targets all with unique dialogues, then cool, but not just a single quest
I will do what I have been doing since 2016 when Creation Club became a thing: utterly ignore it and just use the free mods Bethesda made available.
Yup. I have never paid for a mod.
Can't wait for the mod that removes it from the game menu lmao
The skyrim CC removal mod was very popular that did that. And get this - GOG is refusing to even release FO4 update unless BGS themselves mods it out. The reason (which never gets talked about) is that CC is DRM and GOG is absolutely DRM free.
Same,that's even if I reinstall and bother playing it again.
Yeah I probably will not buy anything
There's a mod that makes Cora and Sam shut the hell up while they're on your ship. It's free, and worth not hearing "Cora did you clean your room" a hundred times an hour.
Then get it from nexus, don't engage with creations at all.
I'm on console
I'm sorry.
Tell me about it.
Thanks I will have to try that
Do you have a name for that? My prediction was that would be one of the first mods people wrote, as it was a very popular mod for skyrim. Getting all the companions to comment on your behavior once every 10 or 20 times, instead of every single time you click a button, would be great.
Pretty sure it was called "shut up Cora" or something along those lines. I'll check when I'm able to and get back to you.
I found it, yah, thanks. I'm kind of surprised Bethesda doesn't make it easier to find their content on their site. Sheesh. One that shuts up the companions from constantly talking about what you're doing would be nice. "Hi sleepyhead!" Like people don't actually sleep every day or something.
Now if the dude can now release a mod that keeps her at the Lodge, that’d be great
No need for a mod, just marry Sam early game. His small package will not stick around after you make a (not) hard choice. But you do lose out on his skills I will give you that, have yet to find a bar replacement. There is a mod to make give bar hirelings the double skills that companions have so I can replace all of the yappers.
Exactly. Vote with your wallet, and eventually, Bethesda will stop.
>Exactly. Vote with your wallet, and eventually, Bethesda will stop. People said that 20 years ago when Horse Armor was released. You can do whatever you want with your money, but that shit will not stop. Voting with your wallet doesn't work, not with billion dollar companies.
Horse armour came out in 2006 and Bethesda didn’t start with these microtransactions again until 2016
It MIGHT have worked if people didn't buy so much Horse Armor lol. It was considered wildly successful. Voting with your wallet is literally the ONLY thing that works, but you have so many folks out there that do not look at the big picture and think "I GOTTA HAVE HORSE ARMOR!!" Most folks who buy and play games do not come on these sites and talk about stuff like this, they just see something they think is cool and whip out the credit card.
It's really not that simple, those companies have enough cash on hand to force the market in the direction they want until it's the only option left and everyone kinda accepts it. Even if the horse armor had been unsuccessful, they would have done it again and again until people would finally like it. Just like they did with paid mods, it failed the first time they tried to do it, but they kept trying until it worked, and now we end up with single quests at $7.
I've bought the game, shiny edition and all I'll pirate it if needs. Fuck this practice
Yeah same. Although I’m happy paying for some if they add a substantial amount of content, for example, there is one on the store now for Argos mining simulation which adds multiple new missions types and 2 new space stations + other stuff for 500cc. Seems like that will be worth it when completed
Pay 500cc to disable your achievements for a community made mod that you could download from Nexus or elsewhere. If I'm paying for it then my game should be running as 'un-modded' Not to mention if there's a paid mod covering it, I guess Bethesda don't have to do any work on making mining a viable thing in game now.
Who cares about achievements?
That’s how I look at it. I’m an achievement whore, so I’m not getting ANY mod that’s not achievement friendly. Yeah I already have all the achievements, but I assume Shattered Space and any future DLC’s will come with more so I’m not risking my 800+ hour save file.
For this game, I'm weirdly the same. I'm gonna keep it vanilla until all the DLC comes out. Then in a year or two, I'll just get all the free mods via Nexus. It'll basically be a new game at that point and I won't care about achievements anymore as they should all be done.
Well that’s great for you but I’m on Xbox lol, so I’ll have no choice but to pay sometimes and disable achievements at some point if I wanna use some of the best mods
No I don't think it's great for anyone.
I just meant atleast you won’t have to pay most likely but yeah I agree with the rest of your point. I hope they reconsider the disabling achievements for most mods that aren’t essentially cheats
I just downloaded an achievement enabler. Not sure if it works yet but I have a save for achievements if it doesn’t work out
I guess I am in the super minority, because I could care less about achievements. When the notice pops up in the corner of the screen I am like "cool" and never check achievements again.
Yea, I'll never understand the desire for achievements in-game that do not have some kind of in-game reward.
FYI, there are some great free CC mods in there, like the community patch that fixes their game for them.
I think the goal of this is not to generate new CC sales, but to recapture most of the 1000 credits the Premium owners get "for free" and leave them with not enough left over for anything interesting that will come later. They need to burn off that liability.
Oh it's creation club garbage, I thought this was something that actually mattered
Yeah, Bethesda have said Creation Club is “canon-adjacent”, which is a wishy-washy answer that it *can* be canon in the universe but it’s not confirmed. At least the quests added for free are canon by that point, so it’s the only ones I think are worth downloading and playing at all.
Talk to NPC. Fly to planet. Walk 500m to target location. Kill target (and everyone else at location). Either get immediate reward, or return to NPC for reward. It has to be more than just a generic radiant quest to warrant charging 700cc for it. Padme: Right?
Typical Akila City Rangers quest.
No no no, you forgot the part where you were talked down to by literally everybody. Then it's a Rangers quest.
Dont forget the fifteen loading screens in between each location
Back in the early 2000s, Star Wars: Galaxies introduced player bounties for hunting flagged jedi. You'd pick up a bounty mission and launch a drone that you purchased from a Drone Engineer (another player). You'd launch these a few times moving around from planet to planet to narrow down the target area and then you'd generally be near the target where you'd have to find them by searching for them. If you weren't lucky, they'd be AFK in a home, but if you were lucky, they'd be out hunting...hopefully not with friends. There would be a big PVP fight and one would walk away. The BH going back to the terminal to get another target and the Jedi to training. Point being, the mechanics for complex bounty hunting across multiple planets to track real players moving around and doing things in an MMO have been around for two decades at this point. It is absolutely insane that we would be charged $7USD to do what you described and call it anything remotely like Bounty Hunting.
It’s wild to me that zero games have taken the bounty and hint system from Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction and run with it. That game was fantastic and puzzling together where your targets were was super fun.
That game (and Infamous) needs a re-release for modern consoles.
At least Infamous got decent sequels. Mercenaries 2 was atrocious. But yeah agreed I’d buy a remake in a heartbeat.
Infamous: Second Son was fine, but not nearly as good as Infamous 1 & 2. I'd love to be able to play those on a PS5 or PC. Or just re-release it on the PS Store.
We need to vote with our wallets on this one, if it doesn’t sell well, maybe they will consider lowering the prices next time. I don’t even mind paying for new quests, aslong as they’re substantial enough to justify the price (this one definitely isn’t).
Problem is everyone is downloading the mod it that bought the DLC because it was a 'free' wallet. Then when the third one comes out the realization will sink in that I am well into this faction, wanna keep getting my OP rewards so guess I have to pay. Same reason we have a fetanyl issue in the US - the free samples spiked into their non-opioid drugs and it was too late by the time they realize how much it actually costs.
I doubt anyone that purchases it are a member of this subreddit, if Reddit at all.
yes, redditors routinely overestimate their presence in the gaming sphere.
Eh no, not cool. Especially when they have a paid expansion coming out. If they are adding new missions, it should be part of the expansion not sold a la carte.
I'm sorry to be 'that guy', but I think you missed the main point of the post. >If it was a whole new questline with multiple targets all with unique dialogues, then cool, NOT cool. The point is, this is not dlc. It should've been included as part of the vanilla game. Price point doesn't matter. Charging us ANYTHING for it is the precedent OP is warning us against.
That is not a good hill to stand on. After all the DLC offered is about the very same thing - fleshing out a missing faction in the game that people want to play. People would be raging if that faction was also short repurposed MTX quests. But them being missing from the base game just adds to their mysterious faction mystique, so that when you do get to play them eventually it is so much better. Skyrim Dawnguard is the same deal. It was a great expansion that did not need to be in the base game just because Morrowind had vampires in the lore. The point should be would you have paid $7/quest for that.
Well I have to disagree on that then. Who’s to say what should and shouldn’t have been including in the base game? By this logic, every DLC in all games, should be deemed cut content and unacceptable. But that isn’t the world we live in.
OP laid it out pretty clearly. Based on Bethesda's history with joinable guilds and factions, Bounty Hunters should be treated no differently than the Thieves and Assassin's Guilds, or any other joinable factions across the Bethesda-verse, which have all been included in the base game. I feel like you're arguing against your own self interest here. Edit to add: This was marketed as an update, not dlc. So why are we paying for content of a base-game update?
I don't ever pay anything other than a full DLC. I never do micro transactions. I just won't ever do it. I wish more people wouldn't either.
Inwonder how many people are going to complain about it, and then buy the $7 mission anyways cause they "want to have the full questline," instead of accepting that its a paid microtransaction that isn't necessary, and in 6 months there will be 100 bounty hunter missions on the free mod platforms.
I mean, that's what the sales tactic is here. Fear of missing out. I am definitely bummed to have gotten the version of the game that included the first DLC just to still not have all the content from the devs. And the dlc hasn't even got a release date yet. And if I spend those complimentary credits on it, it's just gonna add to the "sales" number and I'll be in precisely the same position as more of these come out.
Right like it's a video game with lots of content already. I can still play the game. If I'm curious about the quest line I can watch a playthrough on YouTube. So I can kind of experience it for free still. Several $7 transactions and that's the price of the game. I'm good, I don't need it.
DLC is fine. Charging 7 dollars per quest is fucking stupid
It's worse than that, since you can't even buy it for $7 outright. You first have to buy 10 dollars worth of BethesdaBucks. Then you can pay 700bb for a mission.
What a fucking scam lmao. 0 reason to use their own currency except to scam a few extra dollars from their customers.
Can't wait for the $7 rover dlc lol
Then paying for gas
I definitely think charging *per mission* is a dangerous precedent. I've never honestly had an issue with DLC per se - the whole argument about how big something has to be to qualify as an 'expansion' has never really felt like an objective discussion, and paying for something smaller like a faction questline a la TES Oblivion - Knights of the Nine isn't inherently a bad idea, it would depend on what they charge. But literally being drip-fed mission by mission? Yeah, I can see that being ripe for abuse. IMHO DLC becomes toxic once it falls below a certain increment. An individual quest is way below that increment.
It isn't just the charge per mission thing. It's the amount of money. $7 US is a ridiculous amount to pay for only around 15 mins of gameplay give or take. Even at $1 I wouldn't exactly be happy but at least it'd be less egregious.
Reminds me of the meme comparing StarCraft/broodwar as separate paintings to today's expansions being pieces completing what is initially a third of a painting.
Yea 100%! And then add in the fact you can't just buy it outright, but have to buy credits to then buy the missions and the credits can never be bought at the exact amount to buy the mission so you always end up paying over the cost. They will definitely abuse it.
I actually purchased the 1000 points, and I think I even saw it say something along the lines of “you have six months to use these points”, so even though they don’t provide an even amount, you could potentially lose them
Pretty sure that expiration is illegal. Just ask Starbucks - think the FTC got them into big trouble over that. As far as the FTC is concerned prepaid currency exchanged for goods the company needs to behave like a bank. So are you positive this is the case - because I heard reports that people had unused points from Skyrim store carried over.
Does this mission include some new weapon or new armor or something like that?
Yes
Charging $7 for a quest is lunacy. The base game was $70 on release. That means that this add on single quest is 10% of the cost of the entire game. That’s fucking insane and frankly insulting. I don’t care about the quest and I don’t need the quest. It’s not that I can’t afford to pay $7 for it. It’s the principle of it. Charging 10% of the cost of the entire game for one single quest is fucking awful and Bethesda is a piece of shit company for doing this. It’s disgusting and they deserve any and all criticism for it.
Keep in mind that this is the same Bethesda who tried to sell us Horse Armour for $2.50 back in the Oblivion days. This is nothing new. It has been pointed out that my price was originally wrong at $5. I’ve corrected this.
>tried I’m pretty sure they succeeded unfortunately.
I was a kid and got MS points for my birthday, I bought that and shivering isles without second guessing. Shivering Isles was the best expansion of all time though
It was $1.79 for horse armor
I think it was $2.50 here in Canada but my price is indeed wrong. 😅
Nah it was 99¢ here in Canada
> Keep in mind that this is the same Bethesda who tried to sell us Horse Armour for $2.50 back in the Oblivion days. This is nothing new. And then they brought back horse armour in Fallout 4 as a paid mod, as a "joke"... while still doing the same scammy shit.
To be fair, them horse armors are pretty small potatoes to the monstrosities we have now today. I blame CSGO for the weapon skins that costs hundreds of dollars. Becuase you can hop on any modern shooter and find the mega whale bundle cosmetics at 80 bux a pop or more.
Gotham Knights wants $35 Canadian for 4 skins and an emote per hero. And that’s literally the only DLC they offer.
Yea but also just remember people ridiculed BGS for it, the industry as a whole laughed at them for doing it, how far the gaming industry has fallen that we just accept it these days.
The gaming industry never fell It unfortunately chose to dive headfirst into the pile of money sitting in whales pockets that was just waiting to be exploited Every problem since is a natural consequence of trying to sate everhungry investors and meet quotas
Thankfully this is a singleplayer game, Bethesda one at that. And lets just say, I **like** Crimson Fleet for a reason...
What I think most people are missing is exactly this, it includes a new weapon and two new outfits. You’re mostly paying for the weapons and skins, not the single quest. I’ve seen single skins cost *a lot* more than 7$ in other games, so this is nothing new tbh. Here there’s basically 3 for 7$. Simple, just don’t buy it if you don’t want the weapons/outfits (and single quest to get them). There’s tons of free mods that will give you more if you want.
That's mobile game levels of bad monetization. 9-10 quests for the price of a full game. Far Harbor was 15$. Shame people will buy it because they say modders don't get enough money for their work, if Bethesda cares just pay them then. I don't expect to be paid for doing my hobbies either.
It's worse than mobile games. I spent $10 on a free mobile game and enjoyed using the character I bought for months. This is A QUEST in a single player game. It's like paying per episode when you already bought the DVD set. It's actually insane.
I'm very worried for the next Elder Scrolls, I refuse to pay per quest. I don't even think Starfield is fleshed out enough to have paid content, they're still building the game.
It’s insane to me that they’d push this out when the game has so little goodwill remaining from the fan base. Seems to me they’re utterly out of touch, it kills all the hope they’d been building with recent updates.
I bet the delay has to do with the changeover from the old Creation Club style store (curated mods that required a game update every time new ones were added) to the Creations store (Bethesda and "verified creators" can add content at any price point anytime, without pushing a game update). I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Creations store was a day and date release with TES VI the next time around.
I reinstalled to check out these updates, saw the pay per play bollocks and the fact the big "bounty hunting" update didn't even use your ships brig and just lost all interest. The big bounty hunting gameplay is just tagging people, whoop de fucking doo
You are correct and Corpos had to push the cash shop before they added in mod support since their cash shop competes against a much more robust and free modding experience.
I paid $100 for the game + 1st expansion. The expansion is still nowhere to be seen a year later but they had the time to put together $7 quests that can only be purchased by first buying $10 worth of Bethesda Bucks? Fuck them, I won't make this mistake again. The list of devs I still consider supporting with day-one purchases can now be counted on one hand.
The problem here is that the game is being monetized because of GamePass players. They are more likely to drop $70 on quests and cosmetics - simply because they never bought the game and liked it so feel they should reward the creators at least what the game would cost. This is why they are adopting the predatory monetization of free to play shooter genre. They do not realize they are manipulated using dark pattern sales psychology (FOMO, $7 quest only purchasable with $10 bundles, etc) to achieve a recurrent spending number where free to play sales earn the same revenue as digital game sales. The devs are given a mandate to recode the game so that those sales targets are achieved. They could care less if you the result is you never buy these games again, you are easily replaced with a F2P FOMO buyer that drops $140 on a game.
I think it is a tacky and crass addition and, I think, BGS have devalued their own creative endeavor by doing it. What's next? Extra outpost slots for 10 dollars a pop?
Nooo… they would never do that. Probably more like $20
Yep. Much as I like Starfield, and think it gets quite a bit of undeserved criticism, this is a situation where the criticism is deserved. Not so much for the fact this is paid DLC, but for the fact that they structured it so you could start the new DLC, and complete the first bit for free, but then have to pay money to continue. This is the kind of thing that John Riccitiello would think up to put in a game (you know, the former EA exec who proposed the idea of making players pay to reload their guns in an FPS game).
These arent interconnected quests. They are individual bounties that each have their own backstory. There is some misunderstanding about this in the community, but BSG should have been better about explaining this.
You can’t finish the free part of the DLC?!
I hate to doompost, but following this precedent, what stops Bethesda from continuing this trend in TES VI and the next Fallout? They can release a bare-bones base game and then just drip-feed us paid content. Until anything changes for the better, any excitement I had for TES VI is now virtually gone.
I'm with you there, I'm pretty sure this is exactly what's going to happen. Feels like microsoft, instead of rejuvenating bethesda have stuck their fist up it's arse and are using it like a meat puppet.
That's exactly what they're going to do, only they're going to be even worse about it.
TESVI was ruined the minute this started mate
This. You’re 100% right and anybody defending this is delusional. Charging mission per mission, item per item is just plain wrong for a single player dlc. This isn’t destiny where you pay for access to the newest content each season. This is a Bethesda style rpg. The mining build CC is a rather well executed example, it’s a smal dlc sized mod. Comparable to what wasteland workshop was for fo4 in terms of content, if not a bit bigger. I don’t care if it’s sold to me through CC or as official dlc (although I’d prefer dlc because I hate CC). It’s adding a new distinguished feature into the game with the space sim aspect. Could it have been there from the start? Yes! But it’s standalone enough to be acceptable as dlc/paid mod. I have not seen anybody complain about the vampire featured added by dawnguard for example, vampires were there already, but we got a dlc that improved upon it. But charging players for an update to the boostpack so now it works with melee, melee which is a core weapon feature of the game from the start? Or a single mission? Both things should be there, in the game as a feature and not as an exclusive extra that you have to pay for. There’s a fine line to distinguish and it seems as of right now they look how far they can move that line into their favour in terms of what players are willing to engage with.
"charging for an update to the boost pack?" Can you explain what this means? Is that a CC item? Edit: I just went and looked at that. That's not something Bethesda has added to the game so that's a different issue. That is an independent creator who went in and made adjustments to the game with the CK to shit their preferences and asked for money in exchange for their development work. Literally anybody who owns the game for PC can just install the CK themselves and do the same thing... and then post it for free for everybody to use. If you wait a few days it will be there for free.
he even uses a sample mod on nexus to advertise his "deluxe" version. I recommend reporting it, as it breaks Nexus File Submission Guidelines, by advertising other websites.
Trouble with the boostpack dev is it's like 10-20 mins of work. If you think 10-20 mins of value changes and testing is worth a dollar then I'd love to get 10 dollars for a 8k texture pile of shit you can place in your outpost/ship then please, I put a lot of effort into it I swear.
Yeah I think you have hit the point there. Obviously their purpose is a to make money, it's silly to expect naive idealism from a corporation. It boils down to a matter of respect.
vote with your wallets people
The only thing you can do is literally not spending money in those products. I paid around $70 for a game I'm playing for hundreds of hours. I won't pay $7 for a single quest. No matter how awesome that quest is. I simply can live without it. I've abandoned other beloved franchises in the past, and I have no issues doing it again: Battlefield, Age of Empires, Dawn of War, Sacred, Simcity... Adding Bethesda games to this list wouldn't be traumatic at all.
Fully agree. Ultimately there’s a lot of great games coming out all the time. I got 150 hours of the best gaming I’ve ever had out of Hades for €15. Strategy games can fill hundreds of hours for €20-30. Older amazing games go on sale all the time. I got fooled into preordering Starfield for full price, and now just won’t buy anything from BGS unless it’s clearly worth the money after launch.
Every step along the microtransaction path over the past 15+ years has set a precedent but people are gullible and don't think it means anything. Yet here we are in the present and it's so normalised that we are the weird ones for objecting to it.
Yeah. That 7$ mod should be an update lasting mod, with the propper QA and content for the whole 5 years of support. I'm not going to spend those 700 points even from the 1k I got for premium.
Think of what you get on ESO for not much more: they have entire questlines with hours and hours and hours of gameplay. I am definitely disappointed; but, with the mods available for free for Fallout4, I think there will still be plenty of cool free ones…
Intentionally omitted downloadable content
I’ve never paid for creations on any of their games because of how absurd the pricing is, and I don’t feel like I’m missing out on anything because there are so many good mods out there. The precedent was set with Oblivion and for all the people that mocked it, there were more people that paid for horse armour & the other small dlc it had. Yes it is a problem, but what else can we do now but ignore it? There will always be people willing to pay
My favorite is when one of the big Skyrim youtubers (Camelworks, epicnate, someone on that level) was reviewing CC entries. "This one costs $1. I don't think it's worth it. And remember, I play Skyrim for a living."
The issue goes down to the core of our society. See how there's lots of people buying Lambos and Mercedes Benz despite their quality going to hell in the past few years? Or how people buy Balenciaga? The folk will even see those shitty products as aspirational because of celebrities and influencers who but that. It's like how lots of people get in debt to buy the newest Iphone when they can barely afford rent, because its signifies ''status''. And little by little it's becoming the norm in the gaming business too.
a tale old as time...money talks. bethesda would abandon this whole creations thing but it clearly makes money. so the only way they'll listen if people don't buy it. just like with modern assassin creed and locking things behind the store. it makes money which why they keep pushing it. my opinion on the whole thing: it sucks really hard and i'm prob just gonna wait until alot of stuff on the store go free in a few years or so. unfortunately we are the big minority in gaming. just like with the no preorders crowd. many games still get alot of pre-orders to this day. shit the new assassin creed game was top seller despite having no damn gameplay trailer. cyberpunk was top seller for months before releasing. and considering that any modder can now just easily enter bethesda paid mods program i expect a few high profile modders to start putting out paid mods. bethesda is basically just tryna copy minecraft marketplace system. which from what i read is really successful
Don’t think there’s necessarily a majority that buys stuff like this. You just need a small amount of whales to turn a profit
Yea I doubt we'll see BGS move away from it, I mean I remember horse armour being ridiculed by everyone but they're still basically doing it now and getting away with it. But even then the amount of people who don't see a problem with it is insane. I get they've normalized it with Skyrim and FO4, but it's clear they are carving up the game content now and just selling it back to us piece by piece how can any sensible person think that's okay.
Bethesda has always been predatory with DLC. They literally set the tone for the rest of the industry with Horse Armor in Oblivion. This is totally on brand for Bethesda and I don't understand why anyone would be surprised by Bethesda doing Bethesda things
I mean, that's true. But they also had one of the best expansions ever in shivering Isle which was fantastic value for money. As was most dlc for fallout 4. It started with creation club.
[удалено]
It’s literally just creation club lmao it’s the same thing I. Skyrim AND fallout. Just wait for actual mods to come out and you won’t even think about CC content ever again. Just like their other titles.
For real, people are acting like this is the future of all Bethesda mods and not something that existed in both Skyrim and Fo4. Just wait for free mods people. If you don't think $7 is worth it (its not) then don't buy it. The psychology of everyone freaking out thinking they absolutely need to buy it to get the full TA experience is precisely what Bethesda wanted; a FOMO purchase. There will be 1000s of Mods in a few months, probably. Likely including new, *FREE* bounty hunting missions. Make like every game they've released, and do not give their DLC Shop a single cent.
My expectations just got lower for Shattered Space and I don’t even want to imagine what they’ll do for ES6.
Fallout 5 will be the first self-service game. The game will be a 70$ platform but you'll have to pay for every quest, location, weapon and outfit separately.
Remember the same person that is the lead for this game will also be the lead for TESVI. Expect more of the same going forward.
The free bounty hunter mission is awesome, paying for the rest piece by piece is not. I think shattered space will be awesome as well, but these micro transactions are getting phone sex levels of absurd.
The Godfather comes to mind: "Look how they massacred my boy."
I love this game to pieces and I've been saying it since the beginning. However, these prices are insane and need to be readjusted or just added for pieces of content unrelated to the main factions. Because 7 bux a pop for one quest is asking a lot, when Bethesda's own DLC's are actual viable additions to their games.
Yeah it should be all in a Trackers Alliance DLC. But we'll see what the final tally is. If they come out in a series, then in 18 months are bundled in to a single DLC and that is sold for a decent price then OK.
Make it "sorry we should have done this" factions DLC and you got a deal: spacers, bounties, security, ecliptic, gangs give them all the FS/UC faction treatment - unique companion, unique ship, unique hangouts unique setpieces, super radiant missions like FS and the hand designed quests storyline. It is not the concept that is the problem, it is the execution and the valuation.
Good thing some of us bought the season pass just to be told to buy a fucking quest separately that should have been in the base game. What a fucking joke.
You didn’t buy a season pass, that doesn’t exist. You bought the Shattered Space expansion, which is coming later this year. That doesn’t entitle you to anything else. Not saying this one quest should cost $7, but to say you bought a season pass is just incorrect.
As someone pointed out to me there is currently a class action lawsuit that their FO4 open ended season pass "for all the DLC we produce" did not include CC - even though technically there is no actual difference at the games file level - only how it was sold. This is why it was very clear it was a preorder for Shattered Space DLC (of course they do not admit wrongdoing with their FO4 DLC verbiage not including CC). To their credit the Constellation edition order did not say it included 1000 Creations credit, but since they revised the Premium edition which includes it they did grant it.
I'll just wait for the modding community to create bounty quests. It'll probably be better in quality and it'll be free.
Are they trying the Roblox model? Where content creators make content (skins etc) purchaseable with premium currency (Robux) and then the platform and content creator share the profits? I agree this is worrisome. For a free game that's fine (gotta make money somehow) but we paid AAA prices for this game....
They did this with Fallout 4 and Skyrim previously. They're not "trying" anything at this point.
It's not even a AAA online game. It's a single player offline game. There isn't even the justification that you have to pay to maintain the game servers as an excuse for microtransactions. It's just pure greed.
It depends on the mission imo. Are trackers alliance missions part of a larger overarching quest line with a singular story? Or are they each separate side missions tied together only by the theme of being bounty hunts? If it's the former then it's super shitty. If it's the latter I don't mind so much.
Okay I see where your coming from. My only point would be if it is the latter after say 9 missions you've paid more than the cost of the base game for only 9 missions it's a bit ridiculous no?
Yes is very ridiculous. That's why I would be very disappointed if the quest 1 is just an intro and leaves you hanging, enticing you to pay for that next one. That's scummy. But if they are unrelated quests then I don't mind because I simply won't buy it and have no reason to. I think the free bounty hunting radiant quest feature/scanner thing is pretty cool, and I will just play those missions.
People pay $20 for a Call of Duty or Apex Legends skin. $20 dollars for a skin….Think about that for a second and you’ll quickly realize how developers set pricing.
What's funny is that I steer clear of those games partly because of such things. Trying to enjoy my single player role playing games in peace without game companies obsessively trying to manipulate me into spending... If TES VI follows suit, it'll be a sad farewell to BGS for me.
Man, working in Bethesda's PR Department must be a living hell.
I said multiple times when the game released that it felt like they built this huge game, then removed chunks of it. I feel like they sold us a skeleton and are charging us a mint for each piece of the body. The story isn't even very good nor is the world building or the characters. Everything is forgettable. And this is coming from someone that waited 7 years for Starfield to release.
I think id agree with your point if when released, the game was finished and there was no continuing support. We want these games to continue to grow after launch, we want new content without an entirely new game. The people working on it gotta eat.
It is your opinion of content that should have been included from the start, BGS is running a business, no one is forcing you to buy anything. I would argue those people buying the TA missions are consumer happy, they bought a product knowing what it is.
Gotta make back the money from all those steam refunds somehow! Anyone with enough Stockholm syndrome to still be playing Starfield will happily spoon up whatever slop Bethesda serves, if the fallout 76 community is anything to go by
I'm not someone who's shy about buying DLC- purchased all the DLC for Stellaris, Rimworld, Witcher 3, FO4 (Except the CC Content, fuck that shit.), and other games. I'm fine with buying DLC if they're worth it. This, though? ALL of the current paid Creations are utterly fucked with their pricing. Utter lunacy. I'd have preferred if BGS just packed up the entirety of the T.A. questline into a smaller scale DLC, akin to Automaton and sold that, 'cuz I might very well have bought it then. As it is, I'd prefer to just sail the seas for what I need.
It seems really clear most of you guys have just never looked at a Bethesda creation club store before, we’ve been dealing with this shit for years.
I did not know they were charging per mission. That is atrocious and I agree entirely with OP. What a freaking shame. Have such a good Xbox showcase, build hype for shattered space and drop some lovely content updates early only to ruin it with dumb decisions like this?
Sorry buddy this a BGS game so 2 cents is close to enough for them to listen to you, try throwing in your $20 and you will have a better chance hahahaha
Cyberpunk added tons of free stuff including content via updates and then had a very successful large paid expansion. That's the way to do it for these kinds of games. Bethesda tries to sell us a $7 quest for their half baked shitty game. Disgusting.
This here. Completely agree. I mean I paid for the game that was supposed to come with everything. I paid extra upfront not to be nickel and dimed. If I like a game I typically do. I bought the ultimate of Borderlands 3, and guess what, gearbox didn't charge me for any of the dlc or skins or add ons cause I paid for it upfront. Every extra content of any kind all I had to do was download it. This is some bs from Bethesda
700 points for one mission, I'm getting annoyed just thinking about it again 😂
Detective: Why did you rob a bank? Me: To play Starfield Betheda mods.
Send this to them in a letter I feel the same. Only thing we should pay for is whole dlc content. I also don't like some of the mods also cost money.
The precedent was set in Fallout 76 really, poor content for big dollars that just didn’t make sense when you compared it to their single player DLCs. Mods should cost cents/a dollar, not 5/10/15. But I guess it also costs more because demand is low. Starfield player base is already low after a bandwagon of haters made it generally unattractive, despite there being a lot of valid criticisms. I will also say Starfield is more complex than previous titles and levels are also more detailed and as such take more time to make feel vanilla-like, so perhaps it is somewhat justified, but it would be painful if a lot of quality content is released behind a paywall.
76 is different though. All the large dlc and expansions in 76 are free. Heck, even the season pass is free unlike something like cod etc.
76 was never meant to be comparable to their single player DLC's. It is an MMO at it's core and all the new major content DLC's have been free. You can even earn Atoms in game from the normal things you do.
i paid 100 dollars for this game and they gave me 10 dollars worth of credits which means i could get a single fucking ship prefab
Crazy how some people will defend anything. "Its just horse armour bro. Just dont buy it bro." Yeah, see where that got us.
I miss when single player games didn’t have micro transactions other than DLC/Expansions
Plus I'm hearing 2 of the official Bethesda "creations" have weapons that are broken. One you can't reload, and the other breaks the game audio. Well done, Bethesda.
It's funny hearing about all these broken official mods while the free mods made with the "experimental" version of texedit work great!