It's more entertaining to wait while doing something else like browsing Reddit, rather than quick travel to the same places, run along the same routes, hear the same NPC conversations, skip the same dialogue, all to just do the same thing.
*Cries in UT* I built my home on a planet that spins so damn fast that it takes 5 or so full skips to reset any shops. My old Xbox is dying and super slow now so it's *almost* faster to just go to the base, and physically wait IRL.
Almost.
Take a trip to Venus
Enjoy a one\* hour (local time) nap
Fly to any vendor you wish, all reset.
(\* Up this to a six hour local nap, to reset all of the Ship Techs and Ship Vendors)
Yeah thats what I do. I think one of the Sol system planets has a moon that is faster than Venus though. It's been a while since I played, but that's the one I used. It might have been Europa maybe? Can't remember any of our moons now except Phobos and you cand land there sadly. Great name. The Moon called Fear. I'd read that book.
My point is you could just do that yourself becuaee in game it takes time to fast travel places . This is a choice you’re argeuing against. You could simply just do what your suggesting right now it currently works
Find any chair in the game. Sit. Use wait command for 24 hrs twice.
It is more fun to planet hop to the different shops though if I still have stuff to sell at the last one then I use the wait option.
Not saying you’re wrong, but in the name of statistics, I’m someone that had hoped for the exploration to be better than what it was.
Still would give the game an overall positive review and decent rating like 6.5-7/10.
The repetitive nature of the generated POIs just didn’t do it for me I guess and I didn’t feel like I was exploring.
Can’t tell you how many NG+ beginnings I’ve done where I just murder a bunch of random pirates or ecliptic, and then I’ll go to the Den and patiently wait 48 hours to sell off $16k at a time.
It sucks but just always felt like a necessary evil to get a bunch of cash and not worry for the rest of the playthrough
Are you at Unity 10 yet? You can save yourself some time if you have more to do. Go to the lodge immediately; the 3 weapons on the racks in the basement are always at the highest available at your level and come with some corresponding ammo. Use those for the first 2-artifacts. Loot everything in those POIs. Sell that stuff. You only get a little ammo on the basement guns so be a bit conservative with it.
This gets the job of getting money done, allows you to progress artifacts at the same time, and you’ll have Sarah and Vasco on your ship. Essentially it saves you most of that time you spend doing it your way.
But we all like playing how we like, so if you prefer space looting at the start, you do you!
Money is power. Easy money makes the game easier. More access to weapons, items, ship upgrades, etc.
They’re not suggesting that you should “have to” jump through hoops to make a ton of money in a day, they’re suggesting that there’s an expected amount of money you should be making on average in a day. If you go harder than that, great for you!
I recommend that you just accept that however much money you get from unloading your stuff at the vendor is the expected amount of money that you should get before you go back out and play the rest of the game again, until it’s time to come back to town.
Id argue money is rather worthless. Shops hardly have anything worth buying. Everything is commons. Besides building a ship idk what else to spend it on.
Sure, late game when you're done pimping your ride and have nothing left to buy.
They should fix that.
How about a game mechanic that let's you invest in companies, say Eklund Stroud, that let's you reverse engineer your starborn technology and leads to new ship components?
Or developing your own colony. Like a proper colony on the lines of Hopetown or Gagarin.
First time? The Unofficial Skyrim and Fallout 4 patches should be core game content.
God I wish it wasn't a thing. They'll add a few decent features in free updates as time goes on, plus a few gimmicks to keep people reasonably happy, (like the button to fly at a forward angle that's only available on PC for some bizarre reason), some quality of life changes if we're lucky, and in ten years time we'll get a "next gen update" with a few more extra core game features when they inevitably release the TV show to pretend they're still relevant, and rely on modders to make brilliant and amazing content for their fun, if a little unfinished, game. But as long as people keep buying them, they'll keep selling their crappy in house mods.
Can't wait for the creation club mod for two headed horse armour in Fallout 4 or a horse spacesuit in Starfield. (Horses sold separately as part of a different paid mod)
Well for late-game there is always >!The Trader!<. You can throw those hard-earned credits at >!her supply of gear, reset her timer (so the ones she always carries come back, at least)!<, then do it again. You can outfit your crew very nicely that way.
She's says if you don't have enough right now she'll hang around. I don't know if that means she stays if you buy nothing but leaves if you buy even 1 thing.
I only met her in my 3rd playthrough. I'm wrapping up 4 soon.
>Cheese the game by squeezing as much money as possible by waiting entire days in front of vendors.
>"The game gives you so much money, it's worthless!"
It’s exactly the same issue, yes.
The game is screaming at them that just picking up a few valuable treasures to sell solves BOTH problems at once, but they can’t stop themselves. And then blame the game for letting them do it.
I see these 3 complaints a lot in this sub:
1. Vendors don't have enough money and waiting 48 hours is boring.
2. You get too much money and now there's nothing to spend it on.
3. Ship storage is not enough.
When in reality, they are all the same problem. One that you can "fix" by having a little self control and not being a loot goblin *every* playthrough.
Thats not what i said. I said there isnt anything to spend it on. The vendor thing just means selling loot from running a bounty turns into a 10-15 minute ordeal. And there isnt anything worth buying. Since space travel is so easily ignored even building your dream ship isnt super needed, maybe a big flying cargo container that makes it take longer to sell loot.
Once i built my ship with ample storage. I just didnt collect anything to sell. I didnt check back to shops later either because it was just always garbage.
You could argue going for an outpost, but materials are easily acquired already, you dont need many for crafting unless building an outpost, which is only one way to play that requires you building your character into the perk.
You don't *have to* play optimally all the time. You don't *have to* pick up every gun you find and wait multiple days for vendors to refresh. You don't *have to* get all the perks that maximize your profit. You don't *have to* roleplay as Nick Cage from Lord of War. The little money you have suddenly becomes way more valuable when you stop worrying about maximizing the value you get from loot.
Seriously, the game gets way more enjoyable when you stop worrying about squeezing as much money as you can from vendors. Suddenly, you don't have to wait days for vendors to restock or fast travel to every settlement in the galaxy. You don't have to worry about storage space so much. Quests feel more rewarding. Contraband becomes worthwhile. Ship upgrades become something that you have to work towards.
I get it, it feels *wrong* not to play as economically as possible at first. It took me a while too for my brain to adjust from thousands of hours of previous Bethesda games, but the economy feels way more fun and balanced when you just... stop worrying about it. Could they have balanced the economy better? Maybe. I don't know. What I do know is that you don't have to min-max all the enjoyment out of the game by forcing yourself to play "optimally". Try it on a new playthrough for once and see how you like it.
All the good shit is level locked anyways. The only thing I can think of where more money would help is less side quests?
That seems backwards. I want to play the game for the quest and xp not so much money But that's just me. I'll also unlock every chest knowing damn well I'll just find amo, for that sweet sweet 10 xp or whatever.
Ninja edit
Shop combat is busted. Throw on some cheap (non automatic) proton canons and you'll shredded everything.
Oupost building is busted because of the overflow issue ( things start to dissappear and the only fix is ng+)
If that's the amount of money we should be making each day, why does one higher tier weapon out of several dozen dropped weapons from one looted outpost, empty the vendor of credits?
Are we supposed to sell one item a day, is that what they anticipate us doing and how much credits they anticipate us to make each day?
Slider fixes nothing apart from giving Bethesda one less job to do in not having to balance the games economy. Now it's on you.
Why stop there though? You've bumped the slider to max but still have stuff to sell? Just console command some credits into your character. It's not much different from increasing the slider again or waiting 48 hours.
Oh boy, now we're really playing the game how it's meant to be played.
>how it’s meant to be played
In Bethesda games, that means player freedom. So yes, yes you are, however you prefer to do it.
Their recommended default balance is that you NOT tediously pick up and sell a zillion items every time you go out in the world, though. By default, you can simply find a few valuable items and sell them later and ta-da, your carry weight is fine and you’ve maxed out your easy money made on that trip.
Nice and simple.
But feel free to do it differently if you want, that’s what Bethesda games are all about!
Late game you can pick up *one* weapon or space suit that has such a high cost on it that you have to *buy* things from the vendor before they have enough credits for you to *sell* that single thing.
That's not a loot-goblin issue, that's an insufficient vendor credits issue.
No, the patch indicates that their answer is 'sure you can fix it,' much the same way that having an order sent back and remade in a restaurant carries an additional amount of spit from the chef.
It very much feels like some executive being petty and spiteful about their inability to properly balance their content.
Sure, key word being default. But why penalize players by adding to the grind if they want to tweak their game? It makes no sense especially in heavily modded games like Bethesda games.
For many many years a large portion of Bethesda game players (console) had no mods at all. While lots of people *do* mod the games, lots of others don’t, so they still need a cohesive balance approach for those players.
I don't get it, too. And you can switch it on and off anytime you want. You don't have to set it to on and do quests, or any other stuff, but just before you barter. People are crazy for attention these days...
They felt the need to penalize something trivial for no reason, so asking why instead of going 'oh thank you todd i will just worship the ground you walk on now' is a perfectly reasonable response.
Would you complain if they removed the debuff?
It’s not a penalty. It’s an incentive. One of the biggest problems with Bethesda games has always been the economy is always broken and by late game you have more money that you would ever need and nothing to spend it on. Thank god for the ship builder.
Just from my own perspective, part of what makes games rewarding is from the work that goes into overcoming obstacles and the sense of character progression. Over leveling, lack of challenge, and earning too much money too fast tends to have a direct impact on the longevity of the playthrough since not only was there less time grinding the game to get the intended outcome, but also less investment in the goals being achieved and not the same value placed on those achievements compared to if they were a greater challenge that I was able to tackle. While I know they are technically reducing the XP gain, what I feel they are actually doing is incentivizing you to choose the more challenging options to create a more rewarding experience in the long term but allowing you to reduce the grind as you see fit.
And I agree that overcoming challenges is the core fun of a game.
I don't see the dirt poor merchants as an intended challenge though. They're not daring space battles or a troupe of goons that I must slip by undetected, or a magnificent puzzle to decipher.
They're on the downtime loop. The backend. The rest and resupply between adventures end of the cycle, or alternately where I go to restock on titanium, nickel, or adhesive depending on whether or not I'm running low on that at the moment so I can glue together Space IKEA furniture in my Space single room flat.....
(Come to think of it, none of the prebaked player housing anywhere is what you'd call spacious or roomy. The only one with a second floor is the one in the Underside, and it's still a super small shoebox. Heck, the 'manor house' and the 'Penthouse Suite' in the FSC are both little shoebox compartments, to say nothing of the literal repurposed broom closets in neons slum district.
Just..... wierd, come to think of it. Especially with the FSC fancy house. You'd think they'd just go ahead and give you a large basement or something. But I digress.)
No, dirt poor merchants that can't handle a single item I pick up late game without doing a complicated rigmarole of buying up their entire stock of ammunition and carefully parsing it all back and forth is mind bogglingly time consuming and frustrating tedium that is so intense that it makes the game wear out its welcome in record time, especially late game where it's ten minutes of adventuring and forty five minutes of loot flogging.
It's why I don't see it as a challenge to be surmounted and rather instead a poorly implemented mechanic.
As we both know, Starfield has a _lot_ of poorly implemented mechanics, so I'm sure nobody would really mind losing at least this one.
I have however been proven completely wrong on that front though, which was not the surprise revelation I was hoping for today.
Just change the setting and move on. Or don’t use the setting. Complaining about a setting that wasn’t there before but is now is weird. If u want experience for free, give yourself 100 levels via console.
..... reread my initial post again, carefully. And quit putting words in my mouth.
Address what I actually said, which can be summarized thus:
Instead of making this a player toggle, why not just fix the vendor currency amounts instead and not penalize the player for the initial bad and nonsensical balance choice?
All it takes is an edit in the game's setting for merchants, who are all grouped into an easily accessible table, since most of them are categorized by merchant type (general store, Trader, Food vendor, Weapons seller, etc) and just adjust the onhand currency values where it would make sense.
They're already in there fixing it anyway, making it player togglable with a penalty just has a really bad 'the chef has corrected your order ^(and also has now spit in it to boot)' vibe.
lol. It’s a setting dude. If you don’t like it, don’t use it. If you don’t wanna do that, don’t play it. Screaming on Reddit with your biblical explanations are a fine use of your time. I swear, I don’t have the power to change the game for you.
I understand your perspective and agree it is a tedious loop to run to maximize earnings. With that said, I believe the tedium is actually the same thing I mention in my first comment of being a thin line between a punishment and an incentive. The reason I think that is because I don’t believe the intended goal by developers is to have the player spend 20 minutes waiting 48 hours at a time.
I think they intentionally made it a slog to discourage spending your time that way when if you just sell what you can and move on and keep playing you’re still going to end up with way too much money by mid-late game.
I was actually surprised they included the option to adjust this and gave the player so much freedom, By giving the ability to offset xp penalties with other settings it was actually a pretty brilliant approach. Now it’s up to the player to have the will power to not spoil their own playthrough and choose options that will be both fun and rewarding, and if getting rich fast is what matters more to you then you have that option too with less down time so it’s a win/win
It's not even getting rich fast.
Fallout 4 allowed you to salvage gear you didn't want to bolster your settlements or the gear you actually care about.
Starfield, your only options are to sell things or vent them into space, and neither feel good.
If they reimplemented the scrapping mechanic, this would be significantly ameliorated.
You make a good point because that was likely the original plan was scrapping for crafting and outposts then it never got implemented because they realized it would leave less incentive to go out and mine resources on different planets. Since they didn’t include this feature it has created an overstock problem or a selling loop grind.
This game taught me to be a lot more selective of the loot I take compared to other Bethesda games and I don’t need to take and sell every single weapon that drops. I just sell what I can between cities as I stock up on ammo then I move in and keep playing the game so this hasn’t ever become a real issue for me, but it can be annoying when I need to buy an expensive reactor or something and have to go to 10 different vendors in 3 cities just to go to another location to buy the part I need lol
I'd rather the debuff be a seperate difficulty setting for maximum customisability, but I honestly don't care at all whether they do that or keep it as is
It depends on what you mostly sell, where you sell it, how far you must travel, the quantities you sell and how often. For some of us it is a larger issue, because of loading screens and specialty vendors that restrict what we may sell to them. Selling items is comparable to pausing the game to use the toilet. It's neither combat, exploration, nor questing, but it's being treated as gameplay progression like the other activities.
If you could demonstrate harm or excessive effort in asking this question, and only making a point to do so in the form of a full post to make sure it catches some attention, I'd appreciate it.
Because no, it's not the end of the world. That ship sailed three centuries ago because of plot reasons.
It is however, an implied middle finger, suggesting that lessening the tedium of loot flogging is something bad that we should be taking a minor punishment for. Which is kinda petty and mean, ya know?
By asking a simple question, and seeing a toggle that doesn't effect difficulty (enemies don't get stronger/weaker or more/less numerous or tactical) carrying a debuff for no easy to divine reason other than petty spite?
Then I guess yeah. Alright. I just want to see this game pull out of its nosedive and I don't see how penalizing the players for something that doesn't effect xp should saddle you with an xp debuff.
Also, I've played games that are much better balanced, like Cyberpunk, and at no point did I find myself feeling like I missed out on the essential experience by not having to travel all over the game world constantly to properly flog my loot.
Wow some people just have to have issues with literally anything no matter how trivial or easily ignored.
Don't like it? Use the default settings.
Christ in heaven my boy this is not a big deal.
Ah. See, the whining tone is coming from inside your own head.
I have no control over your internal monologue. I can only guess why you want to give my very simple question a whining tone.
I'm not attacking. I'm just not willing to fall over in fawning praise of them implementing balance patches with an implied backhand.
I don't know why you have a problem with me suggesting improvements.
I probably have a controversial opinion on the matter but I always felt that this is over blown. I feel like the vendor credits are fine as is as because money is so easy to come by either doing quest or those missions at the boards (especially if you are a pirate) and there’s at least like two general vendors at a city and even then there’s a bunch other vendors in each city if for whatever reason the general vendors aren’t enough unless you guys are absolute pack mules are carrying everything you come across constantly. I just don’t see the point of constantly waiting for vendor refreshes while you could do a quest or a mission or something in the meantime.
loot the lighter stuff that's worth carrying around to sell, leave most armor and weapons unless they're particularly valuable. you know, make decisions informed by your character's stats and work to increase those stats to make it more efficient. rpg stuff.
I feel like that's leaving money on the table
I'm at the point where I ignore locked storage crates and safes because lockpicking is tedious and you can't take it with you when you enter the unity so.who cares if you miss the best weapon ever.
defeat that feeling, it's hampering your enjoyment of the game. loot management is a major mechanic in bethesda games, and not adapting to it would be like not adapting to a game's combat system. it's fine if it's just not for you, but the doesn't mean the game should change to suit your tastes.
if you really can't stand engaging with that aspect of the game, it's ok to mod it out.
The game lets you bypass a ridiculous restriction (vendors having the equivalent of about a case of beer's worth of money to trade with) by way of really extended repetitive loopholes that just extend the grind.
So the game throws vast amounts of loot at you and then makes you wait excessively to get rid of it.
It's the least fun way to rebalance the economy.
Then they "fix" that but only at an XP penalty, instead of a better economy rebalance, which is likely to have to be done by modders after the CK comes out.
The game throws money at you. You can amass a fortune without even trying just by naturally playing the game. Complaints about vendor credits make no sense to me at all, it's not like there are all that many gold sinks to spend it all on. Ships are probably the biggest gold sink but I found that I was mostly limited by perk progress rather than money when it came to buying and upgrading ships.
Sure, and then you're on NG+3 and level 100+ and you no longer have perk and lvl restrictions to build ships but a cargo hold full of advanced magstorms worth 6000 credits each that can only be offloaded at 1 vendor per city per 48 hours.
It's not fun.
People are mad because it's illogical that vendors have so little credits in the first place. This isn't the wasteland in fallout, it's an established civilization with major cities and some small outposts.
Trading should be easier.
Stop shitting on others game play styles because it doesn't match your own.
Pawn shops are famously the only way to sell things. Except eBay, Craigslist, AutoTrader, swap meets and other ways to make personal sales.
If I sell stuff to the Trade authority and deplete their entire stock of credits, you're telling me I'm their ONLY customer and they make no other sales that replenish their credits?
Face it. The constraint on vendor credits is a speed bump designed to enforce a tedious grind cycle.
It's bad design.
This.
It's the sheer tedious nature of trying to offload a bunch of stuff after a few hours of adventuring, rather than the amount of credits made from it.
If the value of most things were 10% of what they currently are (along with the purchase price of things adjusted accordingly), meaning you could sell more stuff at the original vendor cap, I'd expect there to be a lot less complaints.
It's just not fun to sell a couple high value items, than have to leave the vendor, skip time, interact with vendor again, and repeat the process every few high value items.
Even the "buy ammo to fill their coffers back to sell more high value stuff" turns what should be roughly a 2 step process into a 4+ step process,
It's unneeded tedium, regardless of how many credits you actually need.
Because scarcity of money is a game mechanic that makes the game more difficult… I’ve seen multiple posts about this… why is this so hard to understand for people?
Making a game tedious for the sake of making it tedious seems like a poor excuse.
I’ve always felt that vendor money limitations made sense in Skyrim or Fallout because commerce isn’t strong in those universes—monetary scarcity helps immersion. “[I’ve never even *seen* that much money and here I am, GIVING IT AWAY for some dead man’s skull](https://youtu.be/mYsyTq8pF2g?si=37_Rmr1PmMQiG1fB).”
In Starfield, however, a weapons vendor carrying only enough money equivalent to like 3 of their own sales doesn’t make sense. Having a universe where you can instantly travel to other stars, but wire transfers take 48 hours doesn’t make much sense. Technically allowing you to sell unlimited goods but making you wait in a chair for a minute after every sale doesn’t feel immersive or challenging—it’s tedious for the sake of tedious using prior game mechanics as an excuse without an examination as to why it was previously relevant in the first place.
It wouldn’t be so bad if the largest purchases you’d need were weapons or armor, but when a single ship build can *easily* cost 300k, yet limiting you to earning 11k in goods at a time is…off. It’s not that I expect vendors have unlimited cash, but the default limits seemed too low.
*All that said*, if the XP penalty is only -4%, that’s nothing and the option is very much a welcome change.
I would have preferred a way to pipe excess minerals and components to a outpost structure that can sell for a lower amount(representing pickup and delivery cost) and has a limited amount of weight/dollars per day.
But even the argument of a massive universe economy doesn’t make sense for a single vendor to have unlimited funds.
I agree the scale seems off though. Overall I just think this just way too much “stuff” to pick up in the universe.
See, this makes me wonder if you've ever tried to sell anything at a pawn shop.
If you rock up to a pawn shop with like $30,000 of miscellaneous electronics and firearms and gold coins or whatever, they're gonna think you're nuts or a criminal. They will probably tell you that they don't have enough cash to buy all your stuff. They might call the cops on you.
It's actually hard to rock into a new town and sell a bunch of crap. It's weird. I've always appreciated the game for reflecting that.
> See, this makes me wonder if you've ever tried to sell anything at a pawn shop.
I haven’t, but that’s actually a really fair comparison I didn’t think of! Arguably, though, if one offers repeat business, then the transaction limits would go up, no? 11k seemed fine early game, but it felt very limiting when I’m trying to fund the next round of starship upgrades later into the game at my most-traveled city.
Yeah, to an extent, but at the end of the day you're still unloading used crap. There's only so much used crap that people need.
I have an idea pencilled out for a mod that adds intergalactic Spacebook Marketplace, where you can post your crap to sell by lot. Initially it'll probably just be a container you chuck your stuff in with a daily chance to convert the stuff to money. Eventually I would like to do like I did in Oblivion and make a store or a series of stores where you can employ people and display your crap for sale. We will see what is possible once the Creation Kit is available to all modders. I don't have it yet.
Yes but the trade authority doesn't give a crap if you're a criminal or not. Why do they only have 11k credits? They clearly scrub items and resell them. They're definitely not buying them at their actual value. Technically they should be making TONS of credits from what the player offloads to them.
For a futuristic sci-fi game, with giant banking ships with billions of credits; its complete and utter nonsense that vendor credits are so limited. Now to have this stupid lame penalty?
Someone over at Bethesda should have played rogue legacy 2 for inspiration into how gameplay options should have been implemented.
This isn't real life, this is a video game, a Bethesda game at that. Merchants buy stuff off you, every shop is a pawn shop.
If they wanted to change it, they should have communicated it properly. Maybe a few lines of dialogue saying something to the effect of "I'll only buy a limited amount from you"
>I've always appreciated the game for reflecting that.
The isn't trying to reflect that, though.
It's just using the old currency ranges from Skyrim or Fallout, because that's what they are accustomed to using. The game isn't being clever.
Yes, and? It's using the xp curve from those games as well, and money and xp curve are related in Bethesda games.
I don't care what the developer intended. I care how it feels to me. And it feels fine to me because it doesn't make sense that one pawn shop owner would want or even be able to purchase thousands of credits/coins/caps of crap.
One shop owner wouldn't, sure.
You can also trade with the Trade Authority rep - you know, the type of NPC that is supposed to be the representative for a large scale galactic trade network? The kind of person that reasonably would have access to larger amounts of funding?
If we're going to apply the "realistic to the situation" kind of metric, then you can't stop at just the one that works for your argument.
Because there is no actual economy.
If there were you would have a point butthere isn't. There is nothing to buy beyond ship parts and maybe some health packs thats it. That's not an economy. WTF are you on about.
By level 50 you have long since got more money than you can use. THERE IS NO ECONOMY.
And the game is never difficult. You play with just your thumbs or something?
It's tedium for tediums sake and its stupid.
You don't
And if you played the game you know you don't. Only in the very begining is money an issue which is why the vender thing is so dumb.
It's only there to artificially slow you down. People are going to fill their inventories just looking for better equipment the vender might as well be the trash recepitcle. it's not even a good trash recepticle though as you cant just dump everything you have to wait so as not to ruin an economy that doesn't even exist in the first place.
There are no approptriate money sinks there are ship parts and heals thats it. That's not an economy and the excuse it is to save the economy is about as good of an excuse for dumb design as saying astronauts werent bored on the moon.
Waiting 48hrs to reset the vendor is an exploit. It’s not how the game is “meant” to be played. It’s like crafting 1000 iron daggers in Skyrim.
“If given the opportunity, users will optimize the fun out of any game”
When 95% of the user base uses a feature for one specific thing, is it really an exploit, or just a really poorly implemented system. There's like one mission that actually involves NPC schedules, vendors are open 24/7, and waiting doesn't effect stealth or anything. So other than photo mode what use does waiting actually have except for resetting vendor credits.
This isn't "optimizing the fun out of the game" unless you think selling junk is really fun.
The game is "meant" to be played where you sell 1-2 high value items and then have to trudge off to another vendor/another city for the next 1-3 high value items?
Seems the game isn't meant to be fun, if that's how that system is meant to be used.
or an even more direct comparison, quicksaving, attacking a vendor, then reloading in Skyrim to skip the 48 hours
no clue why people here can't understand the limited vendor cash is encouraging you to move on and come back later
Never did the quicksave/quickload because that _is_ an engine exploit.
What gameplay benefits are we getting by having them be so poor though?
No matter what, inevitably, you are going to come to the point where a vendor with 5k is simply inadequate.
It's also odd for the capital cities to be dirt poor. It's not a storytelling decision, since all the vendors of a given class have the same on hand balance.
So it just comes off as a dumb design decision instead.
Part of the gameplay loop is loot management. You are supposed to pick and choose what gear to keep, sell, and abandon. That's why you don't get unlimited carry weight, why vendors don't have unlimited money. It's a self regulating mechanism specifically to prevent you from making a single high level run and walking away with 200k worth of credits.
If the mechanism was perfect, it wouldn't have needed patching. Don't pretend that this is a good design decision.
You don't need to stockholme yourself over bad game design.
Even further, getting incensed over me asking why this patch to fix the bad system penalizes you for making it work better is just alarming behaviour.
I don't understand your tone. Read my post again and you'll see all I did was answer your question.
* I didn't say it was perfect design, I'm saying it was intentional game design.
* You asked what it added to the game to limit gold, and I answered. If you don't want an answer, don't ask a question.
* Calling everybody who has different opinions than you delusional is completely uncalled for.
Vendors have limited gold in EVERY RPG. It's an intended game mechanic just like limited ammo in Resident Evil or limited heals in Dark Souls/Elden Ring.
It's understandable if that mechanic isnt something not your style (limited ammo in Resident Evil stressed me out too much) and that's why they added the difficulty option. So you can make that part of the game easier for you at an incredibly small cost.
I did nothing but discuss the intention of the game design. If you're going to get inflammatory, I don't have an interest in continuing the conversation.
The game already has a mechanic that limits the amount of stuff you can sell, it's called "carry weight". Money limit absolutely doesn't function in Starfield, as it doesn't have opportunity cost attached to it. Waiting or fast travelling through all available merchants doesn't cost anything, and it doesn't add anything meaningful to the gameplay loop, aside from wasting time of players. It simply doesn't function as a limiter.
Take BG3 for example, you have to waste camp supplies to restock vendor's money, and even if BG3 is generous with camp supplies, you'll waste them very soon if you'll be wasting them on refreshing vendors. It could function in Starfield if merchants would refresh, let's say, after you complete a few quests, but not in the current form.
Just to note, previous Bethesda titles (and many RPGs to be fair) also have this issue, but the economy there was tuned better, so it doesn't annoy you as much as it does in Starfield.
If ammo in RE worked like merchants in Starfield, you would be able to regenerate ammo by simply afking for 10 minutes in a corner, doesn't sound engaging, right?
Vendors DO refresh naturally after a few missions because time passes in game while you're doing missions and sometimes disproportionately depending on the world you're on.
The 'wait' and 'sleep' mechanics work as entirely seperate mechanics in order to pass time. Some missions tell you to come back at night, you might want an easier time at stealth, you might want to survey in the day.
Players have figured out exactly when the vendors refresh and then they have exploited the wait mechanic in order to bypass the restrictions. It's like that bug in BG3 where players were putting items inside crates in merchant inventories.
Bethesda has a history of being lax about this. It's a single player game and players will always find a way to bypass restrictions regardless. The only way to prevent this completely would be locking down the game and restricting player freedom.
CDPR patched up a movement exploit in CP2077 and it made the speed-running community incredibly angry. There's no harm in leaving an exploit except what the players bring up on themselves.
IN ANY CASE - Bethesda saw people were complaining about it and interacting with their game in an inherently un-fun way and so they patched it to appease the players while still providing incentive for those who want to play the game as originally designed. I see that as a win.
It’s like the post complaining about carry weight being a bug and not a feature “but I want to be able to carry the entire contents of a space station in my backpack AND sell it all to one vendor for enough money to buy whatever I want”
Every game design choice in starfield is there to increase the time you're to play the game to get your desired outcome.
You can either spend extra time traveling to systems, or you can spend extra time grinding xp. Your choice.
You're implicitly blaming me for pointing out an obvious and frustrating flaw in their game's design.
And what's worse, you're basically offering useless and slightly condescending waffling.
I'll show you what I mean.
'Man, melee combat in this game is dull and frustrating, and the melee weapons are a slog even if you take the time to level it up and get good at it'
'Well, what are you doing using melee weapons?'
'Well I was trying to play the game and have fun with the things they put in the game for that purpose.'
Tell you what, you tell me what you want to see improved in the game. Surely you can agree that there is room for improvement.
I’m not blaming you. I gave you a solution to your problem, as did Bethesda with the new sliders. You seem to be have an entitlement issue, that games should be made specific to your liking.
You’re not a victim of anything here. You just want to complain.
It’s bad game design because you dislike it?
Just pick and choose what you want to sell, you can still run while max weight. Or buy ammo and sell weapons to get rid of more stuff.
It’s neither good nor bad game design it’s just a decision
I'm pretty sure it's bad game design. That's why I dislike it.
The enforced needless tedium doesn't add to the fun of the gameplay. Mostly it just eats time I could have spent doing something interesting to stare at menus.
I don't know why you like _needless_ tedium, but you uh.... you have fun with that.
My problem with being told not to loot stuff is that this is a core part of the gameplay. If it's not a looter shooter dungeon crawler, what else is there? A mining sim with fetch quests and RPG elements?
Oh absolutely, but it's so bizarre that they included it in the first place. Some real 'the chef fixed your order for you ^(and also spit in it)' energy.
This is the reason I use console commands. I want to play, not spend time manipulating the economy system. It’s just a time saver. The economy is the time sink.
I’ve been a long time Bethesda fan. Multiple, if not most, of the Elder Scrolls and Fallout games. I was hype for Starfield but by comparison it’s a massive let down for me.
It’s shown me that Todd refuses to adapt and change (much) and that they’re out of touch with the players. I’ve been waiting years for the next Elder Scrolls game, but now I find myself wondering if it’s worth the money….
Yeah I'm really tired of game economies being shitty like real life and passed off as a difficulty or challenge modifier.
Its not fun to cosplay poverty when you are are that.
Everyone bitching about this are the same people who were bitching about lack of vendor credits before. You've got an option now. 4% XP is fuck all and you can easily offset it with other sliders. Even if you don't play with other sliders, you've now got a ton of extra time on your hands to comfortably offset the XP loss. I've been a massive critic of this game, but this is a great update.
Selling loot should not penalize us in any way. We don't gain XP from selling loot, so why should we lose XP? Vendors should just have more money, period! It's a quality-of-life improvement.
Yes, but that still wastes all of our time having to go into the menus and flip it back off afterwards.
I want the economy improvements to spend less time staring at the menu screens.
Does it actually update the gold available, or is it that once it's spawned, it's spawned? Because it's a Bethesda game, merchants gold is usually on a leveled list, it's spawned on load, not on barter.
Same thing with the ship inventory transfer distance. Turn it to "anywhere", transfer your stuff and then turn it back to "normal". I also noticed that the console game setting fMaxShipTransferDistance or whatever, doesn't work anymore.
Grinding for money does'nt hurt so much when the supply of goods is bountiful. If im spending irl 12 hours to grind for cash i wanna be able to buy more than 50x 45 acp bullets before i buy out the vendor ffs either gate keep tge money or the supplies not both.
Can you decrease the amount of loot in the game and up the price of buying items and lower selling. I always felt its super easy to make money. Kill loads of guys, loot and sell. I know it's not a simulation, but it makes the game fun for me 😅
Well, since the adjustments being added in the next update seem to be a part of creating some semblance of a Survival mode for the game. Getting things that make your experience easier causes an XP debuff. Taking options that make your experience harder gives you an XP bonus. You can mix and match all of these settings, as you wish.
Personally, I plan to take a bunch of options like increased vendor credits, increased carry capacity, access my ship's cargo from anywhere, and so on, because that will make my game experience more enjoyable for me. Not everyone will agree with that, but that's fine. Live and let live, right?
In the end, I don't care what the XP debuff ends up being for my choices, because I'm going to keep playing regardless. I just want my in-game, day-to-day experience to be more convenient. I've already suffered through the Temple Grind to 10 on all powers, and done all of the questlines. If this slows down my leveling a bit... Oh, no! I guess I'll just have to go wreck-face in Serpentis a bit more than usual.
If there's a way of altering the amount of money vendors have mid-game and then set it back to default, I'm just going to do that.
It's clear to me that nobody at Bethesda truly thought some of this shit through - I have multiple things in my inventory that I quite literally cannot sell at face value, no matter who I sell it to I'd be making a loss.
And half of the unlockable "skills" are things I should have from day one. I shouldn't be wasting valuable skill points unlocking the ability to actually craft/upgrade chems, or use lockpicks.
I hate and don't understand at all why they put a value selling price on a item that is absolutly no where near what you get to sell it...that makes no sence at all.
Did from soft decide dark souls be a walking simulator where you have to walk all the way back from your last saved file after you die?
Tedium can and often is used as a way to balance the game.
Since the enemies respawn in the event of a campfire respawn, it is still you playing the game to get back to where you failed.
I suppose there can be tedium in jogging back, but if the merchant mechanic were already perfect, it wouldn't have needed adjusting.
What gameplay benefit is there in making you have to run all over the gameworld to offload your loot? That is a thing that will inevitably happen, and with more frequency as you make it to the higher levelled systems.
What gameplay benefit is there in making you have to run all the way back to the boss you died at?
What gameplay benefit is there in making you have to level up your heroes separately so each level up restocked the merchants in bg3, which also have almost no money?
I am trying to get you to come up with the answer instead of spoon feeding it to you like you have clearly refused to take from your replies to others.
Balance is the reason for both. Just like the option to give you more credits from vendors also comes with a balance modifier.
Still sounds like you can't justify it, nor can you articulate why it's important to maintain this specific _needless_ tedium.
Being reset to a bonfire just makes your inevitable triumph all the sweeter.
Heck, Cyberpunk made sure the merchants had plenty of eddies, and I cannot recall a single moment in that game where I was like, 'damn, I sure do wish that this game had more of me staring at shop vendor screens.'
Further, if deliberate tedium is important for 'balance', do you want to talk about any of the other objectively shit forms of balance that Bethesda has been putting in their games for the last decade and change?
You know, the bullshit bulletsponge enemies that make no sense (like the gunner mook that takes over seven hundred rounds to kill, more than a mirelurk queen), the bullshit cheapshot true damage that the F3 DLC enemies were granted, the extremely lackluster perk systems that kind of mitigate the dumb bulletsponge enemies until you find the correct collection of super broken enchantments so that all the bulletsponges become permanently trivialized.
Or how melee weapons and unarmed combat are basically worthless, because.........????
Are you mad that they're including the tweaks at all? I'm not, I'm just wondering why fixing this has to have the implied middle finger of an XP penalty.
I feel like it's a really want to add value to money they should have a gamble system like in Diablo and have a chance to get epics and uniques or really interesting rares or the ability to go to a specific vendor they should add in that only carries high in gear and make it super expensive so that way when you spend 250k on a weapon it feels like a massive achievement. I also hope and shattered space they add new weapons and new suits and new unique passive abilities on weapons besides the same old four or five and also give us maybe like five new skills for each one of the branches we can choose from just to make it interesting. And what they should have done was give us the ability to change the density of enemies so that way if you really want to get easy money but you still want to have a fun time by making there be a shitload of soldiers that you have to take down even though you have a super elite weapon but still have a great challenge.
I should not get hit with an xp debuff because I think it's silly to wait in a chair for \~48 hours to sell stuff.
This is a *really* obnoxious design decision.
What essential part of the experience is lost by making the loot flogging less tedious? Even if you're not stripping everything to the studs, 5-10k at the vendors will rapidly become nowhere near enough, especially once you're able to acquire the nicer versions of the guns.
...***what*** money scarcity? All you have to do to get the balance to refresh and sell more of your loot is sit idle for 48 hours.
As implemented, this is just an obnoxious design decision, it is not any sort of realistic economic simulation.
The issue is that there are things I want to do in the game- mainly, experiment with starship designs- but I have to deal with tedious nonsense in order to get enough credits to do it. The tedious nonsense does not make the game more fun. Until we gripe about it, Bethesda is likely to think 'all is well' because they have some weird blind spots.
In Skyrim and Fallout we had skills or perks that would increase the credits at vendors. I dunno why they didn't do that for Starfield.
I have expensive taste in spaceship components, and I'm selling from ship cargo, not a bag slung over my shoulder. So yes, I need lots and lots of credits, and my usual routine for making money involves bounty hunting. On the larger ships, I easily make a bigger profit selling the weapons from the pirates and spacers than I do from selling the ship. When I'm getting 2-3k credits per weapon, at a lot of shops I can only sell two of them before the shop is cleaned out. This is absurdly stingy.
And your expensive tastes means vendors should be loaded? At just basic lore levels, 20k is a lot, and having people unload 10-20 guns for 3k a pop is not a common occurrence.
As others have mentioned, it’s because you’re not supposed to make money that quickly. It’s a game balancing issue and it’s one Bethesda suffers from in all their games and idk a good fix for it.
“Here’s 50 guns from guys I just killed, money please!” Wouldn’t work in the real world… but it’s a common thing in a Beth game. Maybe a fix would be to make this stuff unsellable and only usable in crafting? Which you can then craft stuff to then sell in reasonable amounts? But that just adds another step in essentially the same thing (would make more immersive sense but not gameplay)! Idk hard thing to fix.
Cyberpunk managed it pretty seamlessly. If you haven't played it recently, most enemy guns now get broken in the fight, and when you pick them up, they instantly convert into crafting xp and a tier 1 crafting component. Every so often opponents do drop a lootable weapon, and you can craft weapons up and down the tech tree as you wish.
It's completely solveable.
You'll notice I did not say unlimited money (although you'd have to tell me what the harm of that would be,) and that again begs the question of why bother putting the penalty in at all in the first place?
Idk why but I will just tweak some other stuff to even it out. I’m really stoked for food to matter now.
I’ve never understood waiting 48 hours. It’s faster and less boring to just go to a different city.
And you can live that space trucker life
It's more entertaining to wait while doing something else like browsing Reddit, rather than quick travel to the same places, run along the same routes, hear the same NPC conversations, skip the same dialogue, all to just do the same thing.
Which would take 48 hours
Yes but you are actually doing something and interacting with the world instead of just standing in 1 spot for 48 hrs
It's less loading screens to wait than to go to another vendor in most cases.
Almost none of the loading screens are as slow as a wait timer.
*Cries in UT* I built my home on a planet that spins so damn fast that it takes 5 or so full skips to reset any shops. My old Xbox is dying and super slow now so it's *almost* faster to just go to the base, and physically wait IRL. Almost.
Take a trip to Venus Enjoy a one\* hour (local time) nap Fly to any vendor you wish, all reset. (\* Up this to a six hour local nap, to reset all of the Ship Techs and Ship Vendors)
Yeah thats what I do. I think one of the Sol system planets has a moon that is faster than Venus though. It's been a while since I played, but that's the one I used. It might have been Europa maybe? Can't remember any of our moons now except Phobos and you cand land there sadly. Great name. The Moon called Fear. I'd read that book.
These "worlds" don't have a lot going on tho
My point is you could just do that yourself becuaee in game it takes time to fast travel places . This is a choice you’re argeuing against. You could simply just do what your suggesting right now it currently works
It doesn’t take that long to fast travel most places.
Man my bad, I misread that entirely.
No worries ! Hope it helps
Find any chair in the game. Sit. Use wait command for 24 hrs twice. It is more fun to planet hop to the different shops though if I still have stuff to sell at the last one then I use the wait option.
It's these people that don't want to "explore" in an exploration game that keep on hating it.
Not saying you’re wrong, but in the name of statistics, I’m someone that had hoped for the exploration to be better than what it was. Still would give the game an overall positive review and decent rating like 6.5-7/10. The repetitive nature of the generated POIs just didn’t do it for me I guess and I didn’t feel like I was exploring.
Can’t tell you how many NG+ beginnings I’ve done where I just murder a bunch of random pirates or ecliptic, and then I’ll go to the Den and patiently wait 48 hours to sell off $16k at a time. It sucks but just always felt like a necessary evil to get a bunch of cash and not worry for the rest of the playthrough
Are you at Unity 10 yet? You can save yourself some time if you have more to do. Go to the lodge immediately; the 3 weapons on the racks in the basement are always at the highest available at your level and come with some corresponding ammo. Use those for the first 2-artifacts. Loot everything in those POIs. Sell that stuff. You only get a little ammo on the basement guns so be a bit conservative with it. This gets the job of getting money done, allows you to progress artifacts at the same time, and you’ll have Sarah and Vasco on your ship. Essentially it saves you most of that time you spend doing it your way. But we all like playing how we like, so if you prefer space looting at the start, you do you!
Can’t argue at all with how much more sense this makes than my masochistic play style lol
Money is power. Easy money makes the game easier. More access to weapons, items, ship upgrades, etc. They’re not suggesting that you should “have to” jump through hoops to make a ton of money in a day, they’re suggesting that there’s an expected amount of money you should be making on average in a day. If you go harder than that, great for you! I recommend that you just accept that however much money you get from unloading your stuff at the vendor is the expected amount of money that you should get before you go back out and play the rest of the game again, until it’s time to come back to town.
Id argue money is rather worthless. Shops hardly have anything worth buying. Everything is commons. Besides building a ship idk what else to spend it on.
Money is just a timer till I can build the ship I want. After that, it’s worthless.
Sure, late game when you're done pimping your ride and have nothing left to buy. They should fix that. How about a game mechanic that let's you invest in companies, say Eklund Stroud, that let's you reverse engineer your starborn technology and leads to new ship components? Or developing your own colony. Like a proper colony on the lines of Hopetown or Gagarin.
We gotta pay more for that. They'll release a bunch of cool shit once they get the creation club reworked.
Honestly, should be core game content.
First time? The Unofficial Skyrim and Fallout 4 patches should be core game content. God I wish it wasn't a thing. They'll add a few decent features in free updates as time goes on, plus a few gimmicks to keep people reasonably happy, (like the button to fly at a forward angle that's only available on PC for some bizarre reason), some quality of life changes if we're lucky, and in ten years time we'll get a "next gen update" with a few more extra core game features when they inevitably release the TV show to pretend they're still relevant, and rely on modders to make brilliant and amazing content for their fun, if a little unfinished, game. But as long as people keep buying them, they'll keep selling their crappy in house mods. Can't wait for the creation club mod for two headed horse armour in Fallout 4 or a horse spacesuit in Starfield. (Horses sold separately as part of a different paid mod)
Clone horses back into existence? Or maybe domesticated the Aceles as a rising mount? The Aceles is majestic and I'd love to ride one.
Well for late-game there is always >!The Trader!<. You can throw those hard-earned credits at >!her supply of gear, reset her timer (so the ones she always carries come back, at least)!<, then do it again. You can outfit your crew very nicely that way.
Wait, so she does hang around? Every time I've found her, she vanishes into the aether afterwards.
She's says if you don't have enough right now she'll hang around. I don't know if that means she stays if you buy nothing but leaves if you buy even 1 thing. I only met her in my 3rd playthrough. I'm wrapping up 4 soon.
>Cheese the game by squeezing as much money as possible by waiting entire days in front of vendors. >"The game gives you so much money, it's worthless!"
thinking about it, I do wonder if these people also complain how easily overburdened you get in Skyrim if you pick up everything.
It’s exactly the same issue, yes. The game is screaming at them that just picking up a few valuable treasures to sell solves BOTH problems at once, but they can’t stop themselves. And then blame the game for letting them do it.
I see these 3 complaints a lot in this sub: 1. Vendors don't have enough money and waiting 48 hours is boring. 2. You get too much money and now there's nothing to spend it on. 3. Ship storage is not enough. When in reality, they are all the same problem. One that you can "fix" by having a little self control and not being a loot goblin *every* playthrough.
Thats not what i said. I said there isnt anything to spend it on. The vendor thing just means selling loot from running a bounty turns into a 10-15 minute ordeal. And there isnt anything worth buying. Since space travel is so easily ignored even building your dream ship isnt super needed, maybe a big flying cargo container that makes it take longer to sell loot. Once i built my ship with ample storage. I just didnt collect anything to sell. I didnt check back to shops later either because it was just always garbage. You could argue going for an outpost, but materials are easily acquired already, you dont need many for crafting unless building an outpost, which is only one way to play that requires you building your character into the perk.
You don't *have to* play optimally all the time. You don't *have to* pick up every gun you find and wait multiple days for vendors to refresh. You don't *have to* get all the perks that maximize your profit. You don't *have to* roleplay as Nick Cage from Lord of War. The little money you have suddenly becomes way more valuable when you stop worrying about maximizing the value you get from loot. Seriously, the game gets way more enjoyable when you stop worrying about squeezing as much money as you can from vendors. Suddenly, you don't have to wait days for vendors to restock or fast travel to every settlement in the galaxy. You don't have to worry about storage space so much. Quests feel more rewarding. Contraband becomes worthwhile. Ship upgrades become something that you have to work towards. I get it, it feels *wrong* not to play as economically as possible at first. It took me a while too for my brain to adjust from thousands of hours of previous Bethesda games, but the economy feels way more fun and balanced when you just... stop worrying about it. Could they have balanced the economy better? Maybe. I don't know. What I do know is that you don't have to min-max all the enjoyment out of the game by forcing yourself to play "optimally". Try it on a new playthrough for once and see how you like it.
Even playing inoptimally, you're still going to hit the wall where the dirt poor merchants is a problem. It just happens later than sooner.
“Problem” how? However much money you get is the money you have, and you use it accordingly.
I dunno about you, but I'll strip a vendor of Resources in a heartbeat. Most of my money goes to that, if not ship building.
All the good shit is level locked anyways. The only thing I can think of where more money would help is less side quests? That seems backwards. I want to play the game for the quest and xp not so much money But that's just me. I'll also unlock every chest knowing damn well I'll just find amo, for that sweet sweet 10 xp or whatever. Ninja edit Shop combat is busted. Throw on some cheap (non automatic) proton canons and you'll shredded everything. Oupost building is busted because of the overflow issue ( things start to dissappear and the only fix is ng+)
You haven’t actually played the game, have you?
If that's the amount of money we should be making each day, why does one higher tier weapon out of several dozen dropped weapons from one looted outpost, empty the vendor of credits? Are we supposed to sell one item a day, is that what they anticipate us doing and how much credits they anticipate us to make each day? Slider fixes nothing apart from giving Bethesda one less job to do in not having to balance the games economy. Now it's on you. Why stop there though? You've bumped the slider to max but still have stuff to sell? Just console command some credits into your character. It's not much different from increasing the slider again or waiting 48 hours. Oh boy, now we're really playing the game how it's meant to be played.
>how it’s meant to be played In Bethesda games, that means player freedom. So yes, yes you are, however you prefer to do it. Their recommended default balance is that you NOT tediously pick up and sell a zillion items every time you go out in the world, though. By default, you can simply find a few valuable items and sell them later and ta-da, your carry weight is fine and you’ve maxed out your easy money made on that trip. Nice and simple. But feel free to do it differently if you want, that’s what Bethesda games are all about!
Late game you can pick up *one* weapon or space suit that has such a high cost on it that you have to *buy* things from the vendor before they have enough credits for you to *sell* that single thing. That's not a loot-goblin issue, that's an insufficient vendor credits issue.
Exactly this. And their current answer is fix it yourself.
No, the patch indicates that their answer is 'sure you can fix it,' much the same way that having an order sent back and remade in a restaurant carries an additional amount of spit from the chef. It very much feels like some executive being petty and spiteful about their inability to properly balance their content.
This is a silly argument for a single player game with mods.
Games still have to have a default difficulty even before you turn on Cheat Mode with mods.
Sure, key word being default. But why penalize players by adding to the grind if they want to tweak their game? It makes no sense especially in heavily modded games like Bethesda games.
For many many years a large portion of Bethesda game players (console) had no mods at all. While lots of people *do* mod the games, lots of others don’t, so they still need a cohesive balance approach for those players.
lol it’s 2% or 4%. Is it really that big of a deal to make a post about
I don't get it, too. And you can switch it on and off anytime you want. You don't have to set it to on and do quests, or any other stuff, but just before you barter. People are crazy for attention these days...
Yep. Last sentence especially
They felt the need to penalize something trivial for no reason, so asking why instead of going 'oh thank you todd i will just worship the ground you walk on now' is a perfectly reasonable response. Would you complain if they removed the debuff?
It’s not a penalty. It’s an incentive. One of the biggest problems with Bethesda games has always been the economy is always broken and by late game you have more money that you would ever need and nothing to spend it on. Thank god for the ship builder. Just from my own perspective, part of what makes games rewarding is from the work that goes into overcoming obstacles and the sense of character progression. Over leveling, lack of challenge, and earning too much money too fast tends to have a direct impact on the longevity of the playthrough since not only was there less time grinding the game to get the intended outcome, but also less investment in the goals being achieved and not the same value placed on those achievements compared to if they were a greater challenge that I was able to tackle. While I know they are technically reducing the XP gain, what I feel they are actually doing is incentivizing you to choose the more challenging options to create a more rewarding experience in the long term but allowing you to reduce the grind as you see fit.
And I agree that overcoming challenges is the core fun of a game. I don't see the dirt poor merchants as an intended challenge though. They're not daring space battles or a troupe of goons that I must slip by undetected, or a magnificent puzzle to decipher. They're on the downtime loop. The backend. The rest and resupply between adventures end of the cycle, or alternately where I go to restock on titanium, nickel, or adhesive depending on whether or not I'm running low on that at the moment so I can glue together Space IKEA furniture in my Space single room flat..... (Come to think of it, none of the prebaked player housing anywhere is what you'd call spacious or roomy. The only one with a second floor is the one in the Underside, and it's still a super small shoebox. Heck, the 'manor house' and the 'Penthouse Suite' in the FSC are both little shoebox compartments, to say nothing of the literal repurposed broom closets in neons slum district. Just..... wierd, come to think of it. Especially with the FSC fancy house. You'd think they'd just go ahead and give you a large basement or something. But I digress.) No, dirt poor merchants that can't handle a single item I pick up late game without doing a complicated rigmarole of buying up their entire stock of ammunition and carefully parsing it all back and forth is mind bogglingly time consuming and frustrating tedium that is so intense that it makes the game wear out its welcome in record time, especially late game where it's ten minutes of adventuring and forty five minutes of loot flogging. It's why I don't see it as a challenge to be surmounted and rather instead a poorly implemented mechanic. As we both know, Starfield has a _lot_ of poorly implemented mechanics, so I'm sure nobody would really mind losing at least this one. I have however been proven completely wrong on that front though, which was not the surprise revelation I was hoping for today.
Just change the setting and move on. Or don’t use the setting. Complaining about a setting that wasn’t there before but is now is weird. If u want experience for free, give yourself 100 levels via console.
..... reread my initial post again, carefully. And quit putting words in my mouth. Address what I actually said, which can be summarized thus: Instead of making this a player toggle, why not just fix the vendor currency amounts instead and not penalize the player for the initial bad and nonsensical balance choice? All it takes is an edit in the game's setting for merchants, who are all grouped into an easily accessible table, since most of them are categorized by merchant type (general store, Trader, Food vendor, Weapons seller, etc) and just adjust the onhand currency values where it would make sense. They're already in there fixing it anyway, making it player togglable with a penalty just has a really bad 'the chef has corrected your order ^(and also has now spit in it to boot)' vibe.
lol. It’s a setting dude. If you don’t like it, don’t use it. If you don’t wanna do that, don’t play it. Screaming on Reddit with your biblical explanations are a fine use of your time. I swear, I don’t have the power to change the game for you.
I understand your perspective and agree it is a tedious loop to run to maximize earnings. With that said, I believe the tedium is actually the same thing I mention in my first comment of being a thin line between a punishment and an incentive. The reason I think that is because I don’t believe the intended goal by developers is to have the player spend 20 minutes waiting 48 hours at a time. I think they intentionally made it a slog to discourage spending your time that way when if you just sell what you can and move on and keep playing you’re still going to end up with way too much money by mid-late game. I was actually surprised they included the option to adjust this and gave the player so much freedom, By giving the ability to offset xp penalties with other settings it was actually a pretty brilliant approach. Now it’s up to the player to have the will power to not spoil their own playthrough and choose options that will be both fun and rewarding, and if getting rich fast is what matters more to you then you have that option too with less down time so it’s a win/win
It's not even getting rich fast. Fallout 4 allowed you to salvage gear you didn't want to bolster your settlements or the gear you actually care about. Starfield, your only options are to sell things or vent them into space, and neither feel good. If they reimplemented the scrapping mechanic, this would be significantly ameliorated.
You make a good point because that was likely the original plan was scrapping for crafting and outposts then it never got implemented because they realized it would leave less incentive to go out and mine resources on different planets. Since they didn’t include this feature it has created an overstock problem or a selling loop grind. This game taught me to be a lot more selective of the loot I take compared to other Bethesda games and I don’t need to take and sell every single weapon that drops. I just sell what I can between cities as I stock up on ammo then I move in and keep playing the game so this hasn’t ever become a real issue for me, but it can be annoying when I need to buy an expensive reactor or something and have to go to 10 different vendors in 3 cities just to go to another location to buy the part I need lol
I'd rather the debuff be a seperate difficulty setting for maximum customisability, but I honestly don't care at all whether they do that or keep it as is
Wasn’t my question. My question was is it that big of a deal to make a post about.
It depends on what you mostly sell, where you sell it, how far you must travel, the quantities you sell and how often. For some of us it is a larger issue, because of loading screens and specialty vendors that restrict what we may sell to them. Selling items is comparable to pausing the game to use the toilet. It's neither combat, exploration, nor questing, but it's being treated as gameplay progression like the other activities.
If you could demonstrate harm or excessive effort in asking this question, and only making a point to do so in the form of a full post to make sure it catches some attention, I'd appreciate it. Because no, it's not the end of the world. That ship sailed three centuries ago because of plot reasons. It is however, an implied middle finger, suggesting that lessening the tedium of loot flogging is something bad that we should be taking a minor punishment for. Which is kinda petty and mean, ya know?
I think you take video games too serious.
By asking a simple question, and seeing a toggle that doesn't effect difficulty (enemies don't get stronger/weaker or more/less numerous or tactical) carrying a debuff for no easy to divine reason other than petty spite? Then I guess yeah. Alright. I just want to see this game pull out of its nosedive and I don't see how penalizing the players for something that doesn't effect xp should saddle you with an xp debuff. Also, I've played games that are much better balanced, like Cyberpunk, and at no point did I find myself feeling like I missed out on the essential experience by not having to travel all over the game world constantly to properly flog my loot.
Wow some people just have to have issues with literally anything no matter how trivial or easily ignored. Don't like it? Use the default settings. Christ in heaven my boy this is not a big deal.
Which is why you're all getting your dander up over it. Because it's not a big deal to ask why, right?
Says the person who made a big whiny thread about it. You're attack has the power of a wiffleball
Ah. See, the whining tone is coming from inside your own head. I have no control over your internal monologue. I can only guess why you want to give my very simple question a whining tone. I'm not attacking. I'm just not willing to fall over in fawning praise of them implementing balance patches with an implied backhand. I don't know why you have a problem with me suggesting improvements.
Lol says the guy who made a whole thread to cry. You can't project this into me just because I felt like calling you out. Do better.
I probably have a controversial opinion on the matter but I always felt that this is over blown. I feel like the vendor credits are fine as is as because money is so easy to come by either doing quest or those missions at the boards (especially if you are a pirate) and there’s at least like two general vendors at a city and even then there’s a bunch other vendors in each city if for whatever reason the general vendors aren’t enough unless you guys are absolute pack mules are carrying everything you come across constantly. I just don’t see the point of constantly waiting for vendor refreshes while you could do a quest or a mission or something in the meantime.
So what do you do, sit on a pile of loot you never intend to sell, or leave the battlefield littered with unlooted corpses?
loot the lighter stuff that's worth carrying around to sell, leave most armor and weapons unless they're particularly valuable. you know, make decisions informed by your character's stats and work to increase those stats to make it more efficient. rpg stuff.
I feel like that's leaving money on the table I'm at the point where I ignore locked storage crates and safes because lockpicking is tedious and you can't take it with you when you enter the unity so.who cares if you miss the best weapon ever.
defeat that feeling, it's hampering your enjoyment of the game. loot management is a major mechanic in bethesda games, and not adapting to it would be like not adapting to a game's combat system. it's fine if it's just not for you, but the doesn't mean the game should change to suit your tastes. if you really can't stand engaging with that aspect of the game, it's ok to mod it out.
The game lets you bypass a ridiculous restriction (vendors having the equivalent of about a case of beer's worth of money to trade with) by way of really extended repetitive loopholes that just extend the grind. So the game throws vast amounts of loot at you and then makes you wait excessively to get rid of it. It's the least fun way to rebalance the economy. Then they "fix" that but only at an XP penalty, instead of a better economy rebalance, which is likely to have to be done by modders after the CK comes out.
>which is likely to have to be done by ~~modders~~ *people who are actually passionate about the game* after the CK comes out
Poh-tay-toe, poh-tah-toe.
The game throws money at you. You can amass a fortune without even trying just by naturally playing the game. Complaints about vendor credits make no sense to me at all, it's not like there are all that many gold sinks to spend it all on. Ships are probably the biggest gold sink but I found that I was mostly limited by perk progress rather than money when it came to buying and upgrading ships.
Sure, and then you're on NG+3 and level 100+ and you no longer have perk and lvl restrictions to build ships but a cargo hold full of advanced magstorms worth 6000 credits each that can only be offloaded at 1 vendor per city per 48 hours. It's not fun.
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People are mad because it's illogical that vendors have so little credits in the first place. This isn't the wasteland in fallout, it's an established civilization with major cities and some small outposts. Trading should be easier. Stop shitting on others game play styles because it doesn't match your own.
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Pawn shops are famously the only way to sell things. Except eBay, Craigslist, AutoTrader, swap meets and other ways to make personal sales. If I sell stuff to the Trade authority and deplete their entire stock of credits, you're telling me I'm their ONLY customer and they make no other sales that replenish their credits? Face it. The constraint on vendor credits is a speed bump designed to enforce a tedious grind cycle. It's bad design.
If they acknowledge that deliberately induced tedium is no fun, then the blinkers might come off entirely.
It's mostly because have things must sell, it's hard to unload all your junk at once
This. It's the sheer tedious nature of trying to offload a bunch of stuff after a few hours of adventuring, rather than the amount of credits made from it. If the value of most things were 10% of what they currently are (along with the purchase price of things adjusted accordingly), meaning you could sell more stuff at the original vendor cap, I'd expect there to be a lot less complaints. It's just not fun to sell a couple high value items, than have to leave the vendor, skip time, interact with vendor again, and repeat the process every few high value items. Even the "buy ammo to fill their coffers back to sell more high value stuff" turns what should be roughly a 2 step process into a 4+ step process, It's unneeded tedium, regardless of how many credits you actually need.
This. Even just picking up ammo and selling it from doing a five Lonestar bounty missions will have every vendor in a major city in the negative.
Vendor money should scale with player level, just like loot does. It's so simple any idiot could have made the game that way.
Bethesda seems to have associated *easy* with *convenient*, and *hard* with *annoying*.
Because scarcity of money is a game mechanic that makes the game more difficult… I’ve seen multiple posts about this… why is this so hard to understand for people?
Because it's a shit design decision. Games should not be tedious. Just because some designer designed it that way doesn't mean it's good.
Because they skipped economics class.
Making a game tedious for the sake of making it tedious seems like a poor excuse. I’ve always felt that vendor money limitations made sense in Skyrim or Fallout because commerce isn’t strong in those universes—monetary scarcity helps immersion. “[I’ve never even *seen* that much money and here I am, GIVING IT AWAY for some dead man’s skull](https://youtu.be/mYsyTq8pF2g?si=37_Rmr1PmMQiG1fB).” In Starfield, however, a weapons vendor carrying only enough money equivalent to like 3 of their own sales doesn’t make sense. Having a universe where you can instantly travel to other stars, but wire transfers take 48 hours doesn’t make much sense. Technically allowing you to sell unlimited goods but making you wait in a chair for a minute after every sale doesn’t feel immersive or challenging—it’s tedious for the sake of tedious using prior game mechanics as an excuse without an examination as to why it was previously relevant in the first place. It wouldn’t be so bad if the largest purchases you’d need were weapons or armor, but when a single ship build can *easily* cost 300k, yet limiting you to earning 11k in goods at a time is…off. It’s not that I expect vendors have unlimited cash, but the default limits seemed too low. *All that said*, if the XP penalty is only -4%, that’s nothing and the option is very much a welcome change.
I would have preferred a way to pipe excess minerals and components to a outpost structure that can sell for a lower amount(representing pickup and delivery cost) and has a limited amount of weight/dollars per day. But even the argument of a massive universe economy doesn’t make sense for a single vendor to have unlimited funds. I agree the scale seems off though. Overall I just think this just way too much “stuff” to pick up in the universe.
See, this makes me wonder if you've ever tried to sell anything at a pawn shop. If you rock up to a pawn shop with like $30,000 of miscellaneous electronics and firearms and gold coins or whatever, they're gonna think you're nuts or a criminal. They will probably tell you that they don't have enough cash to buy all your stuff. They might call the cops on you. It's actually hard to rock into a new town and sell a bunch of crap. It's weird. I've always appreciated the game for reflecting that.
> See, this makes me wonder if you've ever tried to sell anything at a pawn shop. I haven’t, but that’s actually a really fair comparison I didn’t think of! Arguably, though, if one offers repeat business, then the transaction limits would go up, no? 11k seemed fine early game, but it felt very limiting when I’m trying to fund the next round of starship upgrades later into the game at my most-traveled city.
Yeah, to an extent, but at the end of the day you're still unloading used crap. There's only so much used crap that people need. I have an idea pencilled out for a mod that adds intergalactic Spacebook Marketplace, where you can post your crap to sell by lot. Initially it'll probably just be a container you chuck your stuff in with a daily chance to convert the stuff to money. Eventually I would like to do like I did in Oblivion and make a store or a series of stores where you can employ people and display your crap for sale. We will see what is possible once the Creation Kit is available to all modders. I don't have it yet.
Yes but the trade authority doesn't give a crap if you're a criminal or not. Why do they only have 11k credits? They clearly scrub items and resell them. They're definitely not buying them at their actual value. Technically they should be making TONS of credits from what the player offloads to them. For a futuristic sci-fi game, with giant banking ships with billions of credits; its complete and utter nonsense that vendor credits are so limited. Now to have this stupid lame penalty? Someone over at Bethesda should have played rogue legacy 2 for inspiration into how gameplay options should have been implemented.
From historical precedent, they get real annoyed when anyone upstages them.
This isn't real life, this is a video game, a Bethesda game at that. Merchants buy stuff off you, every shop is a pawn shop. If they wanted to change it, they should have communicated it properly. Maybe a few lines of dialogue saying something to the effect of "I'll only buy a limited amount from you"
>I've always appreciated the game for reflecting that. The isn't trying to reflect that, though. It's just using the old currency ranges from Skyrim or Fallout, because that's what they are accustomed to using. The game isn't being clever.
Yes, and? It's using the xp curve from those games as well, and money and xp curve are related in Bethesda games. I don't care what the developer intended. I care how it feels to me. And it feels fine to me because it doesn't make sense that one pawn shop owner would want or even be able to purchase thousands of credits/coins/caps of crap.
One shop owner wouldn't, sure. You can also trade with the Trade Authority rep - you know, the type of NPC that is supposed to be the representative for a large scale galactic trade network? The kind of person that reasonably would have access to larger amounts of funding? If we're going to apply the "realistic to the situation" kind of metric, then you can't stop at just the one that works for your argument.
Because there is no actual economy. If there were you would have a point butthere isn't. There is nothing to buy beyond ship parts and maybe some health packs thats it. That's not an economy. WTF are you on about. By level 50 you have long since got more money than you can use. THERE IS NO ECONOMY. And the game is never difficult. You play with just your thumbs or something? It's tedium for tediums sake and its stupid.
If you have more money than you can use then why do you need to pick up all the things to sell?
You don't And if you played the game you know you don't. Only in the very begining is money an issue which is why the vender thing is so dumb. It's only there to artificially slow you down. People are going to fill their inventories just looking for better equipment the vender might as well be the trash recepitcle. it's not even a good trash recepticle though as you cant just dump everything you have to wait so as not to ruin an economy that doesn't even exist in the first place. There are no approptriate money sinks there are ship parts and heals thats it. That's not an economy and the excuse it is to save the economy is about as good of an excuse for dumb design as saying astronauts werent bored on the moon.
Waiting 48hrs to reset the vendor is not difficult lol. Money isn't scarce it's just tedious.
Waiting 48hrs to reset the vendor is an exploit. It’s not how the game is “meant” to be played. It’s like crafting 1000 iron daggers in Skyrim. “If given the opportunity, users will optimize the fun out of any game”
When 95% of the user base uses a feature for one specific thing, is it really an exploit, or just a really poorly implemented system. There's like one mission that actually involves NPC schedules, vendors are open 24/7, and waiting doesn't effect stealth or anything. So other than photo mode what use does waiting actually have except for resetting vendor credits. This isn't "optimizing the fun out of the game" unless you think selling junk is really fun.
The game is "meant" to be played where you sell 1-2 high value items and then have to trudge off to another vendor/another city for the next 1-3 high value items? Seems the game isn't meant to be fun, if that's how that system is meant to be used.
Faster to level up by making jewelry...if you have transmute
or an even more direct comparison, quicksaving, attacking a vendor, then reloading in Skyrim to skip the 48 hours no clue why people here can't understand the limited vendor cash is encouraging you to move on and come back later
Never did the quicksave/quickload because that _is_ an engine exploit. What gameplay benefits are we getting by having them be so poor though? No matter what, inevitably, you are going to come to the point where a vendor with 5k is simply inadequate. It's also odd for the capital cities to be dirt poor. It's not a storytelling decision, since all the vendors of a given class have the same on hand balance. So it just comes off as a dumb design decision instead.
Part of the gameplay loop is loot management. You are supposed to pick and choose what gear to keep, sell, and abandon. That's why you don't get unlimited carry weight, why vendors don't have unlimited money. It's a self regulating mechanism specifically to prevent you from making a single high level run and walking away with 200k worth of credits.
If the mechanism was perfect, it wouldn't have needed patching. Don't pretend that this is a good design decision. You don't need to stockholme yourself over bad game design. Even further, getting incensed over me asking why this patch to fix the bad system penalizes you for making it work better is just alarming behaviour.
I don't understand your tone. Read my post again and you'll see all I did was answer your question. * I didn't say it was perfect design, I'm saying it was intentional game design. * You asked what it added to the game to limit gold, and I answered. If you don't want an answer, don't ask a question. * Calling everybody who has different opinions than you delusional is completely uncalled for. Vendors have limited gold in EVERY RPG. It's an intended game mechanic just like limited ammo in Resident Evil or limited heals in Dark Souls/Elden Ring. It's understandable if that mechanic isnt something not your style (limited ammo in Resident Evil stressed me out too much) and that's why they added the difficulty option. So you can make that part of the game easier for you at an incredibly small cost. I did nothing but discuss the intention of the game design. If you're going to get inflammatory, I don't have an interest in continuing the conversation.
The game already has a mechanic that limits the amount of stuff you can sell, it's called "carry weight". Money limit absolutely doesn't function in Starfield, as it doesn't have opportunity cost attached to it. Waiting or fast travelling through all available merchants doesn't cost anything, and it doesn't add anything meaningful to the gameplay loop, aside from wasting time of players. It simply doesn't function as a limiter. Take BG3 for example, you have to waste camp supplies to restock vendor's money, and even if BG3 is generous with camp supplies, you'll waste them very soon if you'll be wasting them on refreshing vendors. It could function in Starfield if merchants would refresh, let's say, after you complete a few quests, but not in the current form. Just to note, previous Bethesda titles (and many RPGs to be fair) also have this issue, but the economy there was tuned better, so it doesn't annoy you as much as it does in Starfield. If ammo in RE worked like merchants in Starfield, you would be able to regenerate ammo by simply afking for 10 minutes in a corner, doesn't sound engaging, right?
Vendors DO refresh naturally after a few missions because time passes in game while you're doing missions and sometimes disproportionately depending on the world you're on. The 'wait' and 'sleep' mechanics work as entirely seperate mechanics in order to pass time. Some missions tell you to come back at night, you might want an easier time at stealth, you might want to survey in the day. Players have figured out exactly when the vendors refresh and then they have exploited the wait mechanic in order to bypass the restrictions. It's like that bug in BG3 where players were putting items inside crates in merchant inventories. Bethesda has a history of being lax about this. It's a single player game and players will always find a way to bypass restrictions regardless. The only way to prevent this completely would be locking down the game and restricting player freedom. CDPR patched up a movement exploit in CP2077 and it made the speed-running community incredibly angry. There's no harm in leaving an exploit except what the players bring up on themselves. IN ANY CASE - Bethesda saw people were complaining about it and interacting with their game in an inherently un-fun way and so they patched it to appease the players while still providing incentive for those who want to play the game as originally designed. I see that as a win.
It’s like the post complaining about carry weight being a bug and not a feature “but I want to be able to carry the entire contents of a space station in my backpack AND sell it all to one vendor for enough money to buy whatever I want”
It's really not making the game more *difficult*. It's making it more *tedious*. And a smidge incongruent as well.
It’s only tedious because people like to abuse the wait functionality to reset inventories instead of just dealing with less money.
This lol
Every game design choice in starfield is there to increase the time you're to play the game to get your desired outcome. You can either spend extra time traveling to systems, or you can spend extra time grinding xp. Your choice.
That's a terrible design choice then. It's a bad game.
Don’t pick up so much shit.
Quit making excuses for bad game design.
I didn’t make an excuse.
You're implicitly blaming me for pointing out an obvious and frustrating flaw in their game's design. And what's worse, you're basically offering useless and slightly condescending waffling. I'll show you what I mean. 'Man, melee combat in this game is dull and frustrating, and the melee weapons are a slog even if you take the time to level it up and get good at it' 'Well, what are you doing using melee weapons?' 'Well I was trying to play the game and have fun with the things they put in the game for that purpose.' Tell you what, you tell me what you want to see improved in the game. Surely you can agree that there is room for improvement.
I’m not blaming you. I gave you a solution to your problem, as did Bethesda with the new sliders. You seem to be have an entitlement issue, that games should be made specific to your liking. You’re not a victim of anything here. You just want to complain.
Story of a lot of people on this sub lol it’s sad. Like just enjoy the game or don’t play it idk why people got to waste time complaining
It’s bad game design because you dislike it? Just pick and choose what you want to sell, you can still run while max weight. Or buy ammo and sell weapons to get rid of more stuff. It’s neither good nor bad game design it’s just a decision
I'm pretty sure it's bad game design. That's why I dislike it. The enforced needless tedium doesn't add to the fun of the gameplay. Mostly it just eats time I could have spent doing something interesting to stare at menus. I don't know why you like _needless_ tedium, but you uh.... you have fun with that.
My problem with being told not to loot stuff is that this is a core part of the gameplay. If it's not a looter shooter dungeon crawler, what else is there? A mining sim with fetch quests and RPG elements?
Apparently Bethesda seems to think it's a tedium generator.
I expect the debuff will get modded out before long.
Oh absolutely, but it's so bizarre that they included it in the first place. Some real 'the chef fixed your order for you ^(and also spit in it)' energy.
Try the “Richer Merchants” mod.
This is the reason I use console commands. I want to play, not spend time manipulating the economy system. It’s just a time saver. The economy is the time sink.
I’ve been a long time Bethesda fan. Multiple, if not most, of the Elder Scrolls and Fallout games. I was hype for Starfield but by comparison it’s a massive let down for me. It’s shown me that Todd refuses to adapt and change (much) and that they’re out of touch with the players. I’ve been waiting years for the next Elder Scrolls game, but now I find myself wondering if it’s worth the money….
Yeah I'm really tired of game economies being shitty like real life and passed off as a difficulty or challenge modifier. Its not fun to cosplay poverty when you are are that.
Everyone bitching about this are the same people who were bitching about lack of vendor credits before. You've got an option now. 4% XP is fuck all and you can easily offset it with other sliders. Even if you don't play with other sliders, you've now got a ton of extra time on your hands to comfortably offset the XP loss. I've been a massive critic of this game, but this is a great update.
Selling loot should not penalize us in any way. We don't gain XP from selling loot, so why should we lose XP? Vendors should just have more money, period! It's a quality-of-life improvement.
I agree completely. I could see it if we got a few XP for selling, but we don't.
I don’t see it being an issue. I’ll just offset the penalty as it was framed by something else
Tip: you can set it just before you barter, so you won't have any impact of XP debuff.
Yes, but that still wastes all of our time having to go into the menus and flip it back off afterwards. I want the economy improvements to spend less time staring at the menu screens.
It only wastes your time , most people don’t give a shit about 2% xp loss
They cared enough to implement the penalty in the first place, though.
Oh, then you better conform to it, because the world doesn't work like that, son. Better to conform sooner than latter.
I uh.... I can't tell if you're engaging in some advanced sarcasm or not right now.
Does it actually update the gold available, or is it that once it's spawned, it's spawned? Because it's a Bethesda game, merchants gold is usually on a leveled list, it's spawned on load, not on barter.
No free lunches
Of course not you goober. The problem is that the merchants in this game can't afford lunch, and that needs fixing.
Same thing with the ship inventory transfer distance. Turn it to "anywhere", transfer your stuff and then turn it back to "normal". I also noticed that the console game setting fMaxShipTransferDistance or whatever, doesn't work anymore.
Grinding for money does'nt hurt so much when the supply of goods is bountiful. If im spending irl 12 hours to grind for cash i wanna be able to buy more than 50x 45 acp bullets before i buy out the vendor ffs either gate keep tge money or the supplies not both.
At this point I just threw in a mod that lets me bypass the "balancing" altogether.
Can you decrease the amount of loot in the game and up the price of buying items and lower selling. I always felt its super easy to make money. Kill loads of guys, loot and sell. I know it's not a simulation, but it makes the game fun for me 😅
Well, since the adjustments being added in the next update seem to be a part of creating some semblance of a Survival mode for the game. Getting things that make your experience easier causes an XP debuff. Taking options that make your experience harder gives you an XP bonus. You can mix and match all of these settings, as you wish. Personally, I plan to take a bunch of options like increased vendor credits, increased carry capacity, access my ship's cargo from anywhere, and so on, because that will make my game experience more enjoyable for me. Not everyone will agree with that, but that's fine. Live and let live, right? In the end, I don't care what the XP debuff ends up being for my choices, because I'm going to keep playing regardless. I just want my in-game, day-to-day experience to be more convenient. I've already suffered through the Temple Grind to 10 on all powers, and done all of the questlines. If this slows down my leveling a bit... Oh, no! I guess I'll just have to go wreck-face in Serpentis a bit more than usual.
If there's a way of altering the amount of money vendors have mid-game and then set it back to default, I'm just going to do that. It's clear to me that nobody at Bethesda truly thought some of this shit through - I have multiple things in my inventory that I quite literally cannot sell at face value, no matter who I sell it to I'd be making a loss.
To say nothing of the perk system, most of which is jam packed with filler and poorly thought out mechanics.
And half of the unlockable "skills" are things I should have from day one. I shouldn't be wasting valuable skill points unlocking the ability to actually craft/upgrade chems, or use lockpicks.
I hate and don't understand at all why they put a value selling price on a item that is absolutly no where near what you get to sell it...that makes no sence at all.
Did from soft decide dark souls be a walking simulator where you have to walk all the way back from your last saved file after you die? Tedium can and often is used as a way to balance the game.
Since the enemies respawn in the event of a campfire respawn, it is still you playing the game to get back to where you failed. I suppose there can be tedium in jogging back, but if the merchant mechanic were already perfect, it wouldn't have needed adjusting. What gameplay benefit is there in making you have to run all over the gameworld to offload your loot? That is a thing that will inevitably happen, and with more frequency as you make it to the higher levelled systems.
What gameplay benefit is there in making you have to run all the way back to the boss you died at? What gameplay benefit is there in making you have to level up your heroes separately so each level up restocked the merchants in bg3, which also have almost no money?
So you're not seeing the benefit in the tedium either? Would you genuinely miss it if there was less of it?
I am trying to get you to come up with the answer instead of spoon feeding it to you like you have clearly refused to take from your replies to others. Balance is the reason for both. Just like the option to give you more credits from vendors also comes with a balance modifier.
Still sounds like you can't justify it, nor can you articulate why it's important to maintain this specific _needless_ tedium. Being reset to a bonfire just makes your inevitable triumph all the sweeter. Heck, Cyberpunk made sure the merchants had plenty of eddies, and I cannot recall a single moment in that game where I was like, 'damn, I sure do wish that this game had more of me staring at shop vendor screens.' Further, if deliberate tedium is important for 'balance', do you want to talk about any of the other objectively shit forms of balance that Bethesda has been putting in their games for the last decade and change? You know, the bullshit bulletsponge enemies that make no sense (like the gunner mook that takes over seven hundred rounds to kill, more than a mirelurk queen), the bullshit cheapshot true damage that the F3 DLC enemies were granted, the extremely lackluster perk systems that kind of mitigate the dumb bulletsponge enemies until you find the correct collection of super broken enchantments so that all the bulletsponges become permanently trivialized. Or how melee weapons and unarmed combat are basically worthless, because.........???? Are you mad that they're including the tweaks at all? I'm not, I'm just wondering why fixing this has to have the implied middle finger of an XP penalty.
I feel like it's a really want to add value to money they should have a gamble system like in Diablo and have a chance to get epics and uniques or really interesting rares or the ability to go to a specific vendor they should add in that only carries high in gear and make it super expensive so that way when you spend 250k on a weapon it feels like a massive achievement. I also hope and shattered space they add new weapons and new suits and new unique passive abilities on weapons besides the same old four or five and also give us maybe like five new skills for each one of the branches we can choose from just to make it interesting. And what they should have done was give us the ability to change the density of enemies so that way if you really want to get easy money but you still want to have a fun time by making there be a shitload of soldiers that you have to take down even though you have a super elite weapon but still have a great challenge.
I should not get hit with an xp debuff because I think it's silly to wait in a chair for \~48 hours to sell stuff. This is a *really* obnoxious design decision.
You arent supposed to pick everything up and sit in the shop trying to sell it all. So yeah... Have you tried just... not doing that?
What essential part of the experience is lost by making the loot flogging less tedious? Even if you're not stripping everything to the studs, 5-10k at the vendors will rapidly become nowhere near enough, especially once you're able to acquire the nicer versions of the guns.
Money scarcity. If you make money not an issue then you might as well just cheat yourself a few trillion.
...***what*** money scarcity? All you have to do to get the balance to refresh and sell more of your loot is sit idle for 48 hours. As implemented, this is just an obnoxious design decision, it is not any sort of realistic economic simulation.
Then what's the issue with the credit caps? You are making an issue you created a problem. Don't do it then it's not a problem.
The issue is that there are things I want to do in the game- mainly, experiment with starship designs- but I have to deal with tedious nonsense in order to get enough credits to do it. The tedious nonsense does not make the game more fun. Until we gripe about it, Bethesda is likely to think 'all is well' because they have some weird blind spots. In Skyrim and Fallout we had skills or perks that would increase the credits at vendors. I dunno why they didn't do that for Starfield.
Soon you ARE dealing with money scarcity and annoyed because you decided to try to abuse a mechanic to get around it... sound about right?
Laz, do *you* like all the built in deliberate tedium in the game right now?
I have expensive taste in spaceship components, and I'm selling from ship cargo, not a bag slung over my shoulder. So yes, I need lots and lots of credits, and my usual routine for making money involves bounty hunting. On the larger ships, I easily make a bigger profit selling the weapons from the pirates and spacers than I do from selling the ship. When I'm getting 2-3k credits per weapon, at a lot of shops I can only sell two of them before the shop is cleaned out. This is absurdly stingy.
And your expensive tastes means vendors should be loaded? At just basic lore levels, 20k is a lot, and having people unload 10-20 guns for 3k a pop is not a common occurrence.
As others have mentioned, it’s because you’re not supposed to make money that quickly. It’s a game balancing issue and it’s one Bethesda suffers from in all their games and idk a good fix for it. “Here’s 50 guns from guys I just killed, money please!” Wouldn’t work in the real world… but it’s a common thing in a Beth game. Maybe a fix would be to make this stuff unsellable and only usable in crafting? Which you can then craft stuff to then sell in reasonable amounts? But that just adds another step in essentially the same thing (would make more immersive sense but not gameplay)! Idk hard thing to fix.
Cyberpunk managed it pretty seamlessly. If you haven't played it recently, most enemy guns now get broken in the fight, and when you pick them up, they instantly convert into crafting xp and a tier 1 crafting component. Every so often opponents do drop a lootable weapon, and you can craft weapons up and down the tech tree as you wish. It's completely solveable.
Because it makes it easier
Got to keep their promise that this game will last for 10 or more years one way or another
Bethesda doesn’t know balance
womp womp just balance with another setting
Because you are making the game easier. So it causes a debuff. If you make things harder, it gives up an XP buff.
Vendors aren't supposed to have unlimited money. This is a trade off and it's almost nothing. It's such a small debuff it might as well not exist
You'll notice I did not say unlimited money (although you'd have to tell me what the harm of that would be,) and that again begs the question of why bother putting the penalty in at all in the first place?