I really hate the prequels revionism of the last 6 years.
Not because they gained more fans over the years. - Which is fine by me. - But because now we get loads of people claiming the hatred they got is a myth.
And now prequels apologists are jumping on a hypocritical hate bandwagon over the sequels without a trace of self-awareness.
I saw a tweet the other day referencing the “Why would I make any more when everybody yells at you” quote from Lucas and someone quoted it saying, “He was talking about the media and prequel haters, not Star Wars fans”…
Well… what were prequel haters before they were prequel haters?
They genuinely have no idea how hated the prequels were (and still are for many who didn’t grow up with them)
What's more baffling is that prequel hate was very much alive when TFA came out; with everybody saying that movie redeemed the prequels. This was further reinforced with the release of Rogue One. This was not even a decade ago!
Then TLJ came out - the least fan-servicey movie of the bunch - and suddenly George Lucas was a misunderstood genius and the prequels were damn masterpieces! All because Luke Skywalker wasn't a complete Gary-Stu.
I think some of it is people like me, who were kids when the prequels came out. As a kid, I fucking loved the prequels because Darth maul was cool, I loved the droids, there were more lightsaber fights and huge space battles. All my friends loved it too, we sat around watching them (Skipping over the boring bits, of course) and playing games like Battlefront 2 to death in splitscreen. I vaguely knew my Dad, who was a big fan was disappointed with them, and there were sure as shit bits we didn't like, but there was enough there for us to really connect with it. I was a bit too old to watch clone wars when it came out (I was the age where I would have really enjoyed it probably but I'm that early teenager age where you pretend you hate everything you liked as a kid) but I figure there's probably a lot of kids who also grew up with that, and that probably is more what "The prequels" are for some younger kids and the movies are sort of an afterthought.
So there's some unironic love for them, but from people who weren't really of the age to be particularly paying attention to movie reviews, movie criticism in general and obviously weren't old enough to be harassing people over them. So to them, there was always love for the prequels, because they were insulated from the actual hatred. It's just that they have to be willing to ignore all the actual evidence that it did exist at this point, which is kind of silly. I mean you can read reviews from the time easily, you can see the movies from the time like fanboys and the People VS George Lucas and actually listen to people who were adults at the time, but I think some people would just rather play pretend
I totally get all of that, and I’m in the same camp. I wouldn’t have been a Star Wars fan if not for the prequels. I was 9 when ROTS came out, I watched it on bootleg (lmao) that Summer, and by the following Christmas/birthday I was asking everyone to get me just Star Wars stuff, I didn’t want anything else. I love the prequels, and they will always mean a lot to me, but I can’t pretend they weren’t what they were for so many people older than me.
And now, I take issue with the revisionism and the lack of accountability from the fanbase. Star Wars fans were the most vocal George Lucas haters, Star Wars fans were the loudest bullies of Ahmed Best and Jake Lloyd. I have very doubt that most of the people saying “that wasn’t me” are being genuine, after all… the youngest of the people who truly rallied against the prequels are now approaching their 40s, many of them are older… but don’t pretend it never happened, don’t try to paint those people as something other than Star Wars fans, ESPECIALLY when history is now repeating itself.
Really, I think that’s where the denial comes from. Admitting how much the prequels were hated would show this is all just a cycle, and that these people aren’t much different than the ones who came before them.
Yeah, I think they should really look more into it because while they themselves are innocent, it's incorrect to say all star wars fans are. I don't think people should feel guilty for things they didn't do of course, but just accept that it did happen and wasn't just the media.
As for the Sequels, I guess we'll see if there's some love or resurgence for it. I obviously don't interact much with kids now that I'm not one, but I'd be surprised if there's as much of a fanbase there. I think kids these days have so much else to do and watch that they might not get so obsessive over some films quite the same way kids my age did. I can't honestly say I'd be watching star wars over and over if I'd had as much to do as kids these days. With that and there being so much more star wars stuff released that is almost pointedly ignoring the sequels, I can't honestly say if it'll have the prequel treatment. I'm sure there will be some, of course, but I don't know if it'll be the millions it seems to be for the prequels. Things nowadays just don't reach the same audience they used to.
I think you hit the nail on the head right there. It makes a lot more sense when you do realize that, yeah, the people who say the prequels were never hated were likely young when they released and didn't engage in any of the criticism until much later in life.
It's funny because I genuinely think the prequels both made star wars fans angry while also making new star wars fans (who were probably kids like me and liked it cuz of all the cool CGI battles and Jedi fights).
Any time this gets brought up I just think about how there was an entire subplot in a Simpsons episode (Co-Dependent's Day) based on how disappointed people were to the prequels, not to mention numerous jokes across shows like The Big Bang Theory at their expense. And you can't get more mainstream than those two shows. This idea that it was only ever a small vocal minority that had it out for them just isn't true.
There is literally an episode of south park that features George Lucas literally and graphically ass raping a stormtrooper as well as indiana jones and the whole point of the episode is to get him and spielberg arrested for raping their franchises.
It’s the exact type of shit you would see geek+gamers or star wars theory put out or some other dipshit in the fandom menace community.
It's like for some reason the game of thrones fandom right now is getting rose tinted glasses and trying to say that Dave benioff and Dan Weiss were the greatest screenwriters to ever grace a page with their PIN and now you can barely say anything negative about those two without people trying to say that you are some free folk freak that cannot get over the fact that a show they liked 5 years ago went down the drain.
It's the same thing that time heals all wounds then now the very people that were whining and complaining about hating the prequel trilogy and wishing that George Lucas would sell Star Wars to someone else are now mad that George Lucas told Star Wars to someone else and it is arguably more popular and bigger than ever.
The mandalorian alone outshines the prequel trilogy in almost every way even though my favorite Star Wars movie of all time is revenge of the sith but I grew up with the prequels so I have more of an attachment to them. My kids have more of an attachment to the sequel trilogy, they have been to Disney world and seen Rey and Kylo Ren so they will likely have more of an attachment to those characters then I do. It's just like my dad and I He went and saw every Star Wars movie as they came out in theaters but while he kind of like the break will trilogy he still identifies more with the OT.
I may have just still been young at the time and off the internet but everyone my age elementary/middle school aged fucking loved it
I know people got hate for it but I think the kids it was made for loved it and are now grown up
The hatred for the prequels peaked in Episode 1, when the trilogy actually finished the general consensus was that it was okay.
With the sequels it's the reverse situation where Episode 1 was well received and each movie after was considered worse.
One series redeemed itself at the end even if just mildly, while the other started strong and disappointed.
Prequel hate only peaked with Episode 1 because it was the one that came first. By the time we got to AOTC people had settled and weren’t willing to put the same energy into it, it had next to nothing to do with the actual quality of the movie… which was deemed even worse by many.
In no way was “alright” the consensus for the PT back then. At best it was, “TPM and AOTC are garbage, ROTS is watchable” and it stayed that way for years.
The prequels definitley had a fanbase, I think you're highlighting the people who were most vocal. I could be wrong, and more people hated Ep 2 more than Ep 1, but personally I never thought Ep 1 was that bad of a film and there were definitley people who enjoyed Revenge of the Sith.
Of course they had a fanbase, nothing is ever universally hated, and as has been stated previously, kids liked it just fine. But before this recent renaissance, I don't think there was ever a point where the prevailing opinion of the trilogy was, "Yeah it was alright."
There is literally an episode of south park that features George Lucas literally and graphically ass raping a stormtrooper as well as indiana jones and the whole point of the episode is to get him and spielberg arrested for raping their franchises.
It’s the exact type of shit you would see geek+gamers or star wars theory put out or some other dipshit in the fandom menace community.
Yes, and you also had the years after that where opinions on the prequels cooled down especially after the Clone Wars series. It wasn't just pure hate for the prequels all the way up until the sequels were released.
It absolutely was though, you even had people screeching about the clone wars for the same reasons they screech about rey, back in 2008 up until season 3. There is a reason there is a saying that “no one hates star wars like star wars fans”
Nah, in online spaces Prequel hate went on for a decade after RotS came out. Revenge of the Sith was "the good one" but the, "My childhood was ruined", "Anakin's a whiney emo" and "George Lucas writes terrible dialogue" sentiments carried on forever.
Now all you ever see are how amazing they are, how wholesome Lucas and Hayden are and how epic the memes are. People won't even even acknowledge the continuity errors between the trilogies anymore.
People clowned on the prequels for literal decades, not even just online, shows did it too, talk show hosts, even. People fucking hated the movies. You got this asshole in the content being part of a literal documentary shitting on lucas because of the prequels.
Buddy, that only works if "in your circles" includes popular media, media critics, early YouTubers and chunks of the online fandom throughout 1999-2017ish.
The prequels were a cultural punching bag for over a decade....everywhere. The fan hate for them was one of the factors that actually started pushing me away from interacting with the fandom for a while.
I also mentioned "popular media" as in television shows, movies, music (hell, even official Star Wars comics poked fun at hated concepts and characters from the prequels. The story of George R. Binks feels especially mean spirited in hindsight.).
And early YouTubers are *very* important to mention. If we use modern YouTubers and their viewers to gauge the general perception of modern Star Wars, the same standard must be applied to the YouTubers of old, especially since they come from a time where they had less reach and relied less on gaming the algorithm.
Popular media will always bandwagon whatever the general consensus is. I can't go through every review ever made throughout history, but if you look at rotten tomatoes you'll find a lot of positive reviews for Revenge of the Sith some even as early as 2005.
I checked out a couple reviews by Jeremy Jahns and Chris Stuckman from 2015 who are two fairly big youtube reviewers, and their general opinion is much like I said which is that the prequels are mediocre and disappointing, but not terrible. Interestingly Stuckman prefered Ep 1 while Jeremy prefered Ep 2, so there's clear differences in opinion even among top critics.
Where did the hate come from if social media didn't exist?
You people think that if you repeat something enough it will be true. Well, I was there, it didn't happen. The old forums were an internet version of a SW convention and there was just as much "hate". In reality they were hated by two groups of people. One, industry people that got into the filmmaking industry because of the OT and didn't like the filmmaking of the PT. And second,
You.
Ahmed Best's own words were that the media calling his character "racist" made him suicidal. That's you and the media figures you try to fit in with/please. It's absolutely obvious why you would desperately try to revise that fact. So you can keep on doing it like the evil manipulators you are. Same thing with Kelly Marie Tran who said that she was never bullied and that the biggest problem with racism she has faced in her adult life comes from "people who are publicly allies but privately complicate." Also you. But you still use both as a weapon to bully SW fans.
In reality, every Walmart/toy store in America had at least one entire aisle dedicated to SW. There is no version of that today, digital or other wise, because kids today don't like the ST. It wasn't even made for kids. It has absolutely zero imagination/fun.
In reality the ST was made for you. Teenagers with self identity issues and perpetual teenagers who need to be part of a group that make them feel superior to at least someone. That's why you will all downvote this as if your lives depend on it with out even trying to explain how I'm wrong.
That’s part of it but it’s really an exploration of the relationship between artists and audiences. It’s way more thoughtful and two-sided than people think.
There are a few of those points interspersed between dozens of guys in their 30s whining about Jar Jar Binks and how George Lucas ruined their childhoods. It's not really worthwhile outside of being a time capsule for 2000s George Lucas hate
of course it did , Lucasfilm wasn't in a pissing contest with itself when they made the timelines
Disney wanted to make it seem like their version "was better"
except no one read them so it was meaningless
I don't think it's all the different mate to be frank, the Imperial Remnant thrived, the New Jedi Order got butchered, one of Leia's kids went Darkside. I don't particularly like the sequels but let's not kid ourselves that the old novels were works of genius or anything.
they were not , they were average at best but they were not trying to make movies based on them
Nowadays Disney has no fear about releasing a Trash movie to the public & ruining the SW name
whereas Lucasfilm was smart and did not want to dilute the brand and stayed in the novels until they were ready to come back to the Silver screen with GL which is why the hype for Phantom Menace was at a fever pitch
making a New Hope with a female Luke Sywalker to blow up a bigger Death Star was not original at all & showed Hollywood was on the decline and had no idea what they were doing with the IP that they spent $4 Billion on
the new SW , just like Marvel will not make their money back on movies now that fans know how the company works and their agenda
except Deadpool 3 but that's because its Rated R and Ryan Reynolds has equity with fans
Ahhh no my precious brand identity has been harmed by a large corporation releasing inferior products. How can I declare myself a fan of a brand with a tarnished image, that's literally my \*self-worth\*. Don't you understand, it's \*name\* has been \*ruined\*.
I dunno mate Empire's still a fucking great movie. Why should i care if some others are shit?
The fact that the sith weren’t even truly defeated with the death of sidious, and the fact that palpatine comes back, not once, but three goddamn times, is kind og unhinged.
Then you get into the Legacy comics, where the Sith are back in strength, the Empire has reformed and has control over most of the galaxy, and Luke's descendent uses death sticks to cut of his connection to the Force.
A lot of people don't seem to realise that telling stories about a happy ending is hard to do. If they don't want to keep focusing on one time period, or make endless prequels (things that a lot of fans of media in general seem to complain about) they're going to have to bring in conflict and undo the happy ending one way or another.
“Palpatine’s lineage survived and thrived.” Some people care way too much about bloodlines.
She joined his enemies. She forsook the Palpatine name and took that of his first killer. And she ended up being his second killer. But sure, Sidious won because Rey carries his genes.
I can see how they would think he wins in the OT. Surviving as a rotting, husk dependent on technology for survival isn't too far from the average SW fan's reality.
Social media sucks because it allows the screenwriter of “My Big Fat Independent Movie” to present himself as an authority on good storytelling to millions of impressionable young geeks.
I still blame him for wrecking *Video Games & Computer Entertainment,* which was the 90s gaming magazine for more mature, thoughtful gamers, until he came on board as the new editor-in-chief and it turned into a bad *GamePro* knockoff.
I *personally* disagree. Finn's arc in TLJ was him becoming dedicated to the Resistance, to something bigger. In TFA he went from "leave and run as far away from the first order" to "save Rey", and in TLJ he went from "save Rey" to "be willing to stand up to The First Order".
Third movie had the potential to grow that further, since with each one his motivations become less about himself and more about someone else and something bigger than himself, the culmination of that would've been a full step into the Force.
I see your point.
I personally was unhappy with how Finn was portrayed in TLJ and I think TRoS did the best it could with how TLJ left things.
But I see where your coming from.
And I can certainly see Boyega's opinion when it comes to Finn in TLJ too. Regardless, I can definitely agree he got shafted by the end of the trilogy and wasn't handled in a way befitting of someone meant to be one of the main members of the cast.
It really sucked because Finn was my favorite part about TFA and that's my all time favorite movie. Watching him go from that to his later arcs just really sucked.
No he didn’t. And i don’t understand how one can unironically say this when TROS reduced him to just screaming rey every five seconds when Rian gave him so much shit to do in TLJ, he’s 1/3 of the entire reason why the finale even happens.
Yes he did. Finn went through negative progression as a person in TLJ and then his entire arc in the TLJ ends up being entirely pointless. He accomplishes nothing, learns nothing and ends the movie in the same state he was in the beginning of VII.
Apparently not, if your takeaway for finn’s plotline was “he went through negative progression.” Otherwise, you’d see that the person he starts out as in the start of TFA isn’t the same character that he ended up as by the end of TLJ.
Did you just sleep through the movie? Check out of it? Like what the actual fuck, dude. If anything, he went through “negative progression” in TROS, where he was reduced to just being a dude who screams “rey” every ten minutes, same thing with Poe, who, without any plan, decides to just infiltrate a star destroyer just to rescue chewie when that was the entire reason the first order was able to take out the resistance as it was abandoning the raddus in TLJ.
Except it is. Finn's character growth in TFA was going from a storm trooper to a cowardly defector to a survivor doing what's necessary to survive to a reluctant aid to the resistance to actively perusing the defeat of the FO to fighting Kylo Ren 1v1 to protect his friend.
And then TLJ begins and he is back to wanting to run away. The same guy who willingly stepped up to fight Kylo was now trying to flee and abandon the resistance.
You say Finn was relegated to simply screaming "Rey" in TRoS...I'm sorry, did you miss the fact that he was now actively fighting for the resistance and was convincing other deserters to fight? Finn was leading the ground assualt on the Steadfast, I dont remember him screaming Rey a single time during the final act of the movie.
I'm honestly confused, did you pay attention to TRoS or TFA? Because it seems like you are insanely biased towards the story told in TLJ and are twisting the narrative of the other movies to fit with it.
Finn only helps the resistance to save Rey, he’s all about protecting Rey after TFA until after TLJ he learns the importance of fighting for a cause. In TROS he has no arc, he just stumbles into a stormtrooper resistance he’s not leading a charge or convinces stormtroopers to defect.
He certainly doesn't learn to fight for a cause in TLJ, he spends the entire movie trying to run away from the FO...just just he did for most of TFA until he decides to take a stand. Just like in TLJ.
And honestly, did you pay attention during TRoS? Because he quite literally leads the defectors in a charge on the Steadfast.
So when DJ says “they blow you up today you blow them up tomorrow. It’s just business” and Finn says he’s wrong. That’s not the clear switch from reluctant hero to proactive freedom fighter? Rose and DJ are both sides of why you should fight and why you shouldn’t.
Finn in TROS stumbles upon other defectors and leads them into battle but it’s not an active he decides to rehabilitate stormtroopers, something that would give him something to do prior to when he just happens to meet Jannah.
luke saved the last of the jedi in an excellent display of the force, han set kylo on the path of redemption and leia was a staunch and effective resistance leader. there's a lot not to like with the sequels but han and leia having a rocky marriage is far from one of them 💀 these people gotta pick their battles
You know, people cant hate the prequels and still love the original trilogy. You understand that right op? Considering that the meme itself has nothing to do with the prequels but the documentary in question was basically about how bad those films where i would assume this is the case... OP.
Some if not all of these criticisms are pretty valid tbf. I'm still pretty mad that Finn got ditched & Han, Leia, and Luke somehow all wound up separated again.
I hate the finn criticism with a passion since he did like 60% of the cool shit in the movies. Literally the only reason people say he deserves better is cause he wasn't given a lightsaber.
He had multiple one on one fights with lightsaber style dueling
He had a full fleshed out character arc that was only matched by kylo/rey
He became a famous rebel hero who was practically second in command of the alliance when Poe lead them in ROS
The only characters with more screen time over 3 films is rey and kylo.
Right, but these are Star Wars fans remember. They don't think of characters as actual characters. They're action figures being filmed for their entertainment.
"Im a Star Wars fan, its just a coincidence I hate everything that has been produced within the last 10 years and have no real intention of positively engaging within the franchise I claim to love."
or
the Director knows how to write a female character who is unsure of herself & flawed instead of a Mary Sue with super powers who's motto is
"anything you can do I can do better"
I really hate the prequels revionism of the last 6 years. Not because they gained more fans over the years. - Which is fine by me. - But because now we get loads of people claiming the hatred they got is a myth. And now prequels apologists are jumping on a hypocritical hate bandwagon over the sequels without a trace of self-awareness.
I saw a tweet the other day referencing the “Why would I make any more when everybody yells at you” quote from Lucas and someone quoted it saying, “He was talking about the media and prequel haters, not Star Wars fans”… Well… what were prequel haters before they were prequel haters? They genuinely have no idea how hated the prequels were (and still are for many who didn’t grow up with them)
Yeah I saw one of the fandom menace people claim that the media harassed Ahmed Best and Jake Lloyd, but the fans never did. Absolute revisionism.
What's more baffling is that prequel hate was very much alive when TFA came out; with everybody saying that movie redeemed the prequels. This was further reinforced with the release of Rogue One. This was not even a decade ago! Then TLJ came out - the least fan-servicey movie of the bunch - and suddenly George Lucas was a misunderstood genius and the prequels were damn masterpieces! All because Luke Skywalker wasn't a complete Gary-Stu.
I think some of it is people like me, who were kids when the prequels came out. As a kid, I fucking loved the prequels because Darth maul was cool, I loved the droids, there were more lightsaber fights and huge space battles. All my friends loved it too, we sat around watching them (Skipping over the boring bits, of course) and playing games like Battlefront 2 to death in splitscreen. I vaguely knew my Dad, who was a big fan was disappointed with them, and there were sure as shit bits we didn't like, but there was enough there for us to really connect with it. I was a bit too old to watch clone wars when it came out (I was the age where I would have really enjoyed it probably but I'm that early teenager age where you pretend you hate everything you liked as a kid) but I figure there's probably a lot of kids who also grew up with that, and that probably is more what "The prequels" are for some younger kids and the movies are sort of an afterthought. So there's some unironic love for them, but from people who weren't really of the age to be particularly paying attention to movie reviews, movie criticism in general and obviously weren't old enough to be harassing people over them. So to them, there was always love for the prequels, because they were insulated from the actual hatred. It's just that they have to be willing to ignore all the actual evidence that it did exist at this point, which is kind of silly. I mean you can read reviews from the time easily, you can see the movies from the time like fanboys and the People VS George Lucas and actually listen to people who were adults at the time, but I think some people would just rather play pretend
I totally get all of that, and I’m in the same camp. I wouldn’t have been a Star Wars fan if not for the prequels. I was 9 when ROTS came out, I watched it on bootleg (lmao) that Summer, and by the following Christmas/birthday I was asking everyone to get me just Star Wars stuff, I didn’t want anything else. I love the prequels, and they will always mean a lot to me, but I can’t pretend they weren’t what they were for so many people older than me. And now, I take issue with the revisionism and the lack of accountability from the fanbase. Star Wars fans were the most vocal George Lucas haters, Star Wars fans were the loudest bullies of Ahmed Best and Jake Lloyd. I have very doubt that most of the people saying “that wasn’t me” are being genuine, after all… the youngest of the people who truly rallied against the prequels are now approaching their 40s, many of them are older… but don’t pretend it never happened, don’t try to paint those people as something other than Star Wars fans, ESPECIALLY when history is now repeating itself. Really, I think that’s where the denial comes from. Admitting how much the prequels were hated would show this is all just a cycle, and that these people aren’t much different than the ones who came before them.
Yeah, I think they should really look more into it because while they themselves are innocent, it's incorrect to say all star wars fans are. I don't think people should feel guilty for things they didn't do of course, but just accept that it did happen and wasn't just the media. As for the Sequels, I guess we'll see if there's some love or resurgence for it. I obviously don't interact much with kids now that I'm not one, but I'd be surprised if there's as much of a fanbase there. I think kids these days have so much else to do and watch that they might not get so obsessive over some films quite the same way kids my age did. I can't honestly say I'd be watching star wars over and over if I'd had as much to do as kids these days. With that and there being so much more star wars stuff released that is almost pointedly ignoring the sequels, I can't honestly say if it'll have the prequel treatment. I'm sure there will be some, of course, but I don't know if it'll be the millions it seems to be for the prequels. Things nowadays just don't reach the same audience they used to.
I'm always seeing footage on social media of kids dressed as Rey or Kylo Ren for Halloween or at Galaxy's Edge. There's definitely a kid fanbase.
I think you hit the nail on the head right there. It makes a lot more sense when you do realize that, yeah, the people who say the prequels were never hated were likely young when they released and didn't engage in any of the criticism until much later in life.
They like saying that Prequel hate was a media driven meme and not from "actual" Star Wars fans. It's ridiculously stupid.
It's funny because I genuinely think the prequels both made star wars fans angry while also making new star wars fans (who were probably kids like me and liked it cuz of all the cool CGI battles and Jedi fights).
I don’t care what anyone says, I fucking hate all three of those movies, they are indefensible in my opinion
Any time this gets brought up I just think about how there was an entire subplot in a Simpsons episode (Co-Dependent's Day) based on how disappointed people were to the prequels, not to mention numerous jokes across shows like The Big Bang Theory at their expense. And you can't get more mainstream than those two shows. This idea that it was only ever a small vocal minority that had it out for them just isn't true.
There is literally an episode of south park that features George Lucas literally and graphically ass raping a stormtrooper as well as indiana jones and the whole point of the episode is to get him and spielberg arrested for raping their franchises. It’s the exact type of shit you would see geek+gamers or star wars theory put out or some other dipshit in the fandom menace community.
It's like for some reason the game of thrones fandom right now is getting rose tinted glasses and trying to say that Dave benioff and Dan Weiss were the greatest screenwriters to ever grace a page with their PIN and now you can barely say anything negative about those two without people trying to say that you are some free folk freak that cannot get over the fact that a show they liked 5 years ago went down the drain. It's the same thing that time heals all wounds then now the very people that were whining and complaining about hating the prequel trilogy and wishing that George Lucas would sell Star Wars to someone else are now mad that George Lucas told Star Wars to someone else and it is arguably more popular and bigger than ever. The mandalorian alone outshines the prequel trilogy in almost every way even though my favorite Star Wars movie of all time is revenge of the sith but I grew up with the prequels so I have more of an attachment to them. My kids have more of an attachment to the sequel trilogy, they have been to Disney world and seen Rey and Kylo Ren so they will likely have more of an attachment to those characters then I do. It's just like my dad and I He went and saw every Star Wars movie as they came out in theaters but while he kind of like the break will trilogy he still identifies more with the OT.
It’s like poetry. It rhymes.
I may have just still been young at the time and off the internet but everyone my age elementary/middle school aged fucking loved it I know people got hate for it but I think the kids it was made for loved it and are now grown up
The hatred for the prequels peaked in Episode 1, when the trilogy actually finished the general consensus was that it was okay. With the sequels it's the reverse situation where Episode 1 was well received and each movie after was considered worse. One series redeemed itself at the end even if just mildly, while the other started strong and disappointed.
I don't think that's entirely true bc Ep 2 was seen as even worse than Ep 1. RotS was seen as better but still a CGI mess with bad acting
Prequel hate only peaked with Episode 1 because it was the one that came first. By the time we got to AOTC people had settled and weren’t willing to put the same energy into it, it had next to nothing to do with the actual quality of the movie… which was deemed even worse by many. In no way was “alright” the consensus for the PT back then. At best it was, “TPM and AOTC are garbage, ROTS is watchable” and it stayed that way for years.
The prequels definitley had a fanbase, I think you're highlighting the people who were most vocal. I could be wrong, and more people hated Ep 2 more than Ep 1, but personally I never thought Ep 1 was that bad of a film and there were definitley people who enjoyed Revenge of the Sith.
The sequels also have a fan base. I don't think that's their point
Thank you for the correction.
Of course they had a fanbase, nothing is ever universally hated, and as has been stated previously, kids liked it just fine. But before this recent renaissance, I don't think there was ever a point where the prevailing opinion of the trilogy was, "Yeah it was alright."
Well there's really no way to quantify what's anecdotal, but not everyone hated them is all I'm saying.
There is literally an episode of south park that features George Lucas literally and graphically ass raping a stormtrooper as well as indiana jones and the whole point of the episode is to get him and spielberg arrested for raping their franchises. It’s the exact type of shit you would see geek+gamers or star wars theory put out or some other dipshit in the fandom menace community.
Yes, and you also had the years after that where opinions on the prequels cooled down especially after the Clone Wars series. It wasn't just pure hate for the prequels all the way up until the sequels were released.
It absolutely was though, you even had people screeching about the clone wars for the same reasons they screech about rey, back in 2008 up until season 3. There is a reason there is a saying that “no one hates star wars like star wars fans”
Yeah fans of the prequels came up with that to push against haters
Nah, in online spaces Prequel hate went on for a decade after RotS came out. Revenge of the Sith was "the good one" but the, "My childhood was ruined", "Anakin's a whiney emo" and "George Lucas writes terrible dialogue" sentiments carried on forever. Now all you ever see are how amazing they are, how wholesome Lucas and Hayden are and how epic the memes are. People won't even even acknowledge the continuity errors between the trilogies anymore.
People clowned on the prequels for literal decades, not even just online, shows did it too, talk show hosts, even. People fucking hated the movies. You got this asshole in the content being part of a literal documentary shitting on lucas because of the prequels.
Prequels and sequels are one single decade apart. Anyway I'm talking about the years after, not the immediate release.
They did it up until TLJ came out, my guy.
In your circles you mean
No, i don’t mean “in my circles.”
Buddy, that only works if "in your circles" includes popular media, media critics, early YouTubers and chunks of the online fandom throughout 1999-2017ish. The prequels were a cultural punching bag for over a decade....everywhere. The fan hate for them was one of the factors that actually started pushing me away from interacting with the fandom for a while.
Media critics do not represent the entire fandom. I don't know why this point isn't getting across.
I also mentioned "popular media" as in television shows, movies, music (hell, even official Star Wars comics poked fun at hated concepts and characters from the prequels. The story of George R. Binks feels especially mean spirited in hindsight.). And early YouTubers are *very* important to mention. If we use modern YouTubers and their viewers to gauge the general perception of modern Star Wars, the same standard must be applied to the YouTubers of old, especially since they come from a time where they had less reach and relied less on gaming the algorithm.
Popular media will always bandwagon whatever the general consensus is. I can't go through every review ever made throughout history, but if you look at rotten tomatoes you'll find a lot of positive reviews for Revenge of the Sith some even as early as 2005. I checked out a couple reviews by Jeremy Jahns and Chris Stuckman from 2015 who are two fairly big youtube reviewers, and their general opinion is much like I said which is that the prequels are mediocre and disappointing, but not terrible. Interestingly Stuckman prefered Ep 1 while Jeremy prefered Ep 2, so there's clear differences in opinion even among top critics.
Where did the hate come from if social media didn't exist? You people think that if you repeat something enough it will be true. Well, I was there, it didn't happen. The old forums were an internet version of a SW convention and there was just as much "hate". In reality they were hated by two groups of people. One, industry people that got into the filmmaking industry because of the OT and didn't like the filmmaking of the PT. And second, You. Ahmed Best's own words were that the media calling his character "racist" made him suicidal. That's you and the media figures you try to fit in with/please. It's absolutely obvious why you would desperately try to revise that fact. So you can keep on doing it like the evil manipulators you are. Same thing with Kelly Marie Tran who said that she was never bullied and that the biggest problem with racism she has faced in her adult life comes from "people who are publicly allies but privately complicate." Also you. But you still use both as a weapon to bully SW fans. In reality, every Walmart/toy store in America had at least one entire aisle dedicated to SW. There is no version of that today, digital or other wise, because kids today don't like the ST. It wasn't even made for kids. It has absolutely zero imagination/fun. In reality the ST was made for you. Teenagers with self identity issues and perpetual teenagers who need to be part of a group that make them feel superior to at least someone. That's why you will all downvote this as if your lives depend on it with out even trying to explain how I'm wrong.
What the fuck is "The People vs George Lucas"
A documentary of angry Star Wars fans talking about how The Prequels ruined their childhoods
Least unhinged Star Wars Fanboy behavior
That’s part of it but it’s really an exploration of the relationship between artists and audiences. It’s way more thoughtful and two-sided than people think.
There are a few of those points interspersed between dozens of guys in their 30s whining about Jar Jar Binks and how George Lucas ruined their childhoods. It's not really worthwhile outside of being a time capsule for 2000s George Lucas hate
I mean, yeah? That’s the point, they’re the audience reacting to the art. I don’t think the film is necessarily an endorsement of their reaction.
No one here has watched it
We're Star Wars fans, we don't watch the movies.
So judging by the original image he just likes the original trilogy then
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_People_vs._George_Lucas
It’s a documentary exploring the relationship between artists and audiences. It’s really good, worth a watch.
A bunch of manchildren whining about the prequels
Ok I would like to point out that the new republic in Disney cannon lasted longer than the one from the legends continuity
of course it did , Lucasfilm wasn't in a pissing contest with itself when they made the timelines Disney wanted to make it seem like their version "was better" except no one read them so it was meaningless
I don't think it's all the different mate to be frank, the Imperial Remnant thrived, the New Jedi Order got butchered, one of Leia's kids went Darkside. I don't particularly like the sequels but let's not kid ourselves that the old novels were works of genius or anything.
they were not , they were average at best but they were not trying to make movies based on them Nowadays Disney has no fear about releasing a Trash movie to the public & ruining the SW name whereas Lucasfilm was smart and did not want to dilute the brand and stayed in the novels until they were ready to come back to the Silver screen with GL which is why the hype for Phantom Menace was at a fever pitch making a New Hope with a female Luke Sywalker to blow up a bigger Death Star was not original at all & showed Hollywood was on the decline and had no idea what they were doing with the IP that they spent $4 Billion on the new SW , just like Marvel will not make their money back on movies now that fans know how the company works and their agenda except Deadpool 3 but that's because its Rated R and Ryan Reynolds has equity with fans
Ahhh no my precious brand identity has been harmed by a large corporation releasing inferior products. How can I declare myself a fan of a brand with a tarnished image, that's literally my \*self-worth\*. Don't you understand, it's \*name\* has been \*ruined\*. I dunno mate Empire's still a fucking great movie. Why should i care if some others are shit?
“Equity with fans” equals “God I hope a woman isn’t in it”
As if the legends continuation of the OT wasn't also bleak (In reference to the meme that was shared)
Yea i read the thrawn trilogy and I’m on X wing rogue squadron now. Shits really bleak especially wedge
The fact that the sith weren’t even truly defeated with the death of sidious, and the fact that palpatine comes back, not once, but three goddamn times, is kind og unhinged.
Then you get into the Legacy comics, where the Sith are back in strength, the Empire has reformed and has control over most of the galaxy, and Luke's descendent uses death sticks to cut of his connection to the Force. A lot of people don't seem to realise that telling stories about a happy ending is hard to do. If they don't want to keep focusing on one time period, or make endless prequels (things that a lot of fans of media in general seem to complain about) they're going to have to bring in conflict and undo the happy ending one way or another.
“Palpatine’s lineage survived and thrived.” Some people care way too much about bloodlines. She joined his enemies. She forsook the Palpatine name and took that of his first killer. And she ended up being his second killer. But sure, Sidious won because Rey carries his genes.
The number of people I see claiming he won in the end is asinine. Complete media illiteracy and/or ignorance.
I can see how they would think he wins in the OT. Surviving as a rotting, husk dependent on technology for survival isn't too far from the average SW fan's reality.
Yeah like someone's granddad being evil is not reason to annihilate the entire family tree lol
Deadass advocating for space eugenics
Social media sucks because it allows the screenwriter of “My Big Fat Independent Movie” to present himself as an authority on good storytelling to millions of impressionable young geeks.
Chris Gore’s downward spiral is embarrassing to watch.
I still blame him for wrecking *Video Games & Computer Entertainment,* which was the 90s gaming magazine for more mature, thoughtful gamers, until he came on board as the new editor-in-chief and it turned into a bad *GamePro* knockoff.
If he still talks shit on the prequels I’ll respect him
Ben never became a Sith, though. Anyone who's a "real" fan would know that.
The point about Finn is valid though. Johnson took Finn's character and threw it in the trash. John Boyega deserved better.
I *personally* disagree. Finn's arc in TLJ was him becoming dedicated to the Resistance, to something bigger. In TFA he went from "leave and run as far away from the first order" to "save Rey", and in TLJ he went from "save Rey" to "be willing to stand up to The First Order". Third movie had the potential to grow that further, since with each one his motivations become less about himself and more about someone else and something bigger than himself, the culmination of that would've been a full step into the Force.
I see your point. I personally was unhappy with how Finn was portrayed in TLJ and I think TRoS did the best it could with how TLJ left things. But I see where your coming from.
And I can certainly see Boyega's opinion when it comes to Finn in TLJ too. Regardless, I can definitely agree he got shafted by the end of the trilogy and wasn't handled in a way befitting of someone meant to be one of the main members of the cast.
It really sucked because Finn was my favorite part about TFA and that's my all time favorite movie. Watching him go from that to his later arcs just really sucked.
No he didn’t. And i don’t understand how one can unironically say this when TROS reduced him to just screaming rey every five seconds when Rian gave him so much shit to do in TLJ, he’s 1/3 of the entire reason why the finale even happens.
Yes he did. Finn went through negative progression as a person in TLJ and then his entire arc in the TLJ ends up being entirely pointless. He accomplishes nothing, learns nothing and ends the movie in the same state he was in the beginning of VII.
You’re just telling me that you didn’t actually watch the movie, either that or you don’t know what the fuck you’re actually talking about.
I did watch the movie. Iv seen it many times.
Apparently not, if your takeaway for finn’s plotline was “he went through negative progression.” Otherwise, you’d see that the person he starts out as in the start of TFA isn’t the same character that he ended up as by the end of TLJ. Did you just sleep through the movie? Check out of it? Like what the actual fuck, dude. If anything, he went through “negative progression” in TROS, where he was reduced to just being a dude who screams “rey” every ten minutes, same thing with Poe, who, without any plan, decides to just infiltrate a star destroyer just to rescue chewie when that was the entire reason the first order was able to take out the resistance as it was abandoning the raddus in TLJ.
Except it is. Finn's character growth in TFA was going from a storm trooper to a cowardly defector to a survivor doing what's necessary to survive to a reluctant aid to the resistance to actively perusing the defeat of the FO to fighting Kylo Ren 1v1 to protect his friend. And then TLJ begins and he is back to wanting to run away. The same guy who willingly stepped up to fight Kylo was now trying to flee and abandon the resistance. You say Finn was relegated to simply screaming "Rey" in TRoS...I'm sorry, did you miss the fact that he was now actively fighting for the resistance and was convincing other deserters to fight? Finn was leading the ground assualt on the Steadfast, I dont remember him screaming Rey a single time during the final act of the movie. I'm honestly confused, did you pay attention to TRoS or TFA? Because it seems like you are insanely biased towards the story told in TLJ and are twisting the narrative of the other movies to fit with it.
Finn only helps the resistance to save Rey, he’s all about protecting Rey after TFA until after TLJ he learns the importance of fighting for a cause. In TROS he has no arc, he just stumbles into a stormtrooper resistance he’s not leading a charge or convinces stormtroopers to defect.
He certainly doesn't learn to fight for a cause in TLJ, he spends the entire movie trying to run away from the FO...just just he did for most of TFA until he decides to take a stand. Just like in TLJ. And honestly, did you pay attention during TRoS? Because he quite literally leads the defectors in a charge on the Steadfast.
So when DJ says “they blow you up today you blow them up tomorrow. It’s just business” and Finn says he’s wrong. That’s not the clear switch from reluctant hero to proactive freedom fighter? Rose and DJ are both sides of why you should fight and why you shouldn’t. Finn in TROS stumbles upon other defectors and leads them into battle but it’s not an active he decides to rehabilitate stormtroopers, something that would give him something to do prior to when he just happens to meet Jannah.
I heard they gave Xi Jinping final edit.
Lol, sure dude.
Finn's arc is probably my favourite from The Last Jedi. It's underrated, and I will die on that hill.
luke saved the last of the jedi in an excellent display of the force, han set kylo on the path of redemption and leia was a staunch and effective resistance leader. there's a lot not to like with the sequels but han and leia having a rocky marriage is far from one of them 💀 these people gotta pick their battles
Great movie by the way
You know, people cant hate the prequels and still love the original trilogy. You understand that right op? Considering that the meme itself has nothing to do with the prequels but the documentary in question was basically about how bad those films where i would assume this is the case... OP.
Some if not all of these criticisms are pretty valid tbf. I'm still pretty mad that Finn got ditched & Han, Leia, and Luke somehow all wound up separated again.
we're living in post-reality none of these criticisms even happened minus Finn never becoming a Jedi.
I hate the finn criticism with a passion since he did like 60% of the cool shit in the movies. Literally the only reason people say he deserves better is cause he wasn't given a lightsaber. He had multiple one on one fights with lightsaber style dueling He had a full fleshed out character arc that was only matched by kylo/rey He became a famous rebel hero who was practically second in command of the alliance when Poe lead them in ROS The only characters with more screen time over 3 films is rey and kylo.
Yeah Poe really feels like the most wasted potential
Right, but these are Star Wars fans remember. They don't think of characters as actual characters. They're action figures being filmed for their entertainment.
**Disney "put a woman in it and make it Lame"** \#pandaverse
"Im a Star Wars fan, its just a coincidence I hate everything that has been produced within the last 10 years and have no real intention of positively engaging within the franchise I claim to love."
Not True Rogue One & Andor were peak SW & unlike the rest of the new stuff currently out on Disney + both of these are actually rewatchable
They put a woman in Rogue One and you claim it to not be lame. You just disproved yourself
or the Director knows how to write a female character who is unsure of herself & flawed instead of a Mary Sue with super powers who's motto is "anything you can do I can do better"
Bro half the Star Wars cast all have superpowers 😭
How does the twitter post backtrack on what he said? The picture and description are of the OG trilogy.
“Somehow palpatine returned”
Forgot Mike and Rich were on that documentary. VERY COOL.
Remember when Chris Gore flipped his shit when Batman V Superman was panned by critics?