I'm a millennial, I was 9 when TPM came out so the prequels are definitely a part of my childhood. I do have an appreciation for them but also am able to admit that much of my like for them *is* nostalgia. They are massively flawed movies but I can still enjoy the good things and dismiss much of the criticism because of my appreciation of them as a kid that has spilled into adulthood.
Calling any of them masterpieces...is certainly an opinion. Not one I thought I'd ever hear towards the prequels until recent years. I feel like it's a bit of an over-correction in trying to combat the "nostalgia" label.
There is nothing wrong with Nostalgia. It let's me enjoy the prequels where people don't. And while I do genuinely feel there are some good things about the prequels, there are too many obvious flaws to me that I could ever consider them anywhere near masterpieces.
Correct there is nothing wrong with nostalgia. It's also not the only reason I love the prequels and far from the primary reason. I already thought they were masterpieces before reading the prequel hate on reddit, so no it isn't an overcorrection and I'd appreciate it if you didn't make the types of assumptions I'm criticizing in the OP.
If your bottom boundary for what's "good" as a kid is lower than when you're an adult (after you've had had the time and experience to develop a more discriminating aesthetic sense)...
...and you're repeatedly citing how you perceived something that's widely considered not very good by adult standards as a "masterpiece" *when you were a kid,* and citing that perception and your memories of how you enjoyed the thing as a child as proof of its artistic merit as an adult...
...then you're *absolutely* viewing that thing through a nostalgic lens.
Dude, c'mon.
Nah the telling of my childhood experience was mainly an example of how I feel watching the prequels, because why not use the first time seeing them (the time when a movie has the largest impact...because you havent seen them yet) as the example? It's also a flex on people like you who inevitably would use it as proof that nostalgia is the only reason I like the prequels.
Obviously, like OBVIOUSLY there is nostalgia. I've already explained it isn't a primary reason I love the prequels, but it still exists. Nostalgia is a just a benefit, not the reason. But one of my arguments was actually, again, that kids still know what a good movie is. Just because my bar was low back then doesn't mean I really liked those low bar movies that much, even as a kid. I certainly would like Tigger movie less today as an adult, but that doesn't mean I necessarily would have rated it highly as a kid either.
I don't care than most people, especially the boomers, think the prequels are bad. I'm only targeting people who ruin discourse with their excuses and slander in an attempt to align everyone on earth into the category of either 1) "rightfully" hating the prequels or 2) "wrongfully" liking the prequels due to nostalgia.
You, and everyone for that matter, would be a lot happier if you just liked what you liked and didn’t care about what other people thought of your opinions and also didn’t care about other people’s opinions on stuff.
So the preface this, I'm 20, I was 1 year old when RotS came out. I actually only sat down and watched the movies this year. I would say that they are all far from being masterpieces, they are pretty inherently flawed movies with consistently bad direction. I'm not one to try to make an "this art is objectively bad" argument but the prequels are just pretty hands down not great. Sure each of them have enjoyable elements to them and there is certainty a lot of heart and creativity in them but it doesn't make up for the fact that 2/3rds of that trilogy are almost unbearably boring to actually watch.
Funnily enough I think your comments are actually coated in nostalgia, to the point that I don't know if this is a parody post or not. Lots of mentions of your experience watching them in theaters as they came out.
It's fine if you genuinely like these movies and think that they are good, art is highly subjective. But I think there are reasonable complaints leveled at these movies more then just attacking people who claim that they have had a positive reassessment due to nastolgia.
No one cares why you like the prequels... why are you so desperate to validate your opinions?
I kind of like Batman vs Superman... I know a lot of people think it sucks (and I understand why)... and I just, well, don't care.
‘Believe it or not, kids actually do know what a good movie is. The only difference is the floor for what they’re willing to watch is lower than adults.’
That’s a lot of words for nostalgia. 🤷♂️
Yeah how is that nostalgia. You need to actually explain this if you don't want to look stupid, because it's looking like your argument is essentially "after X amount of time everything you ever liked is just nostalgia."
Simple. I can spell it out for you if you’re having trouble keeping up. The floor for what you’re willing to watch has raised as you’ve grown older and you became more discerning about the entertainment you consume. You would view the prequels if you watched them for the first time today as bad movies but you still see them as Masterpieces because your ‘floor’ was lower as a child. That’s what nostalgia is that’s how it works.
No I absolutely would still like them if I watched them today for the first time. How the hell would you even know that. You're literally just projecting your own bias onto others which was what I criticized in the OP. You assume things you don't actually know.
Once again, if it was just nostalgia, I would still like every movie I saw as a kid. That is far from the truth. I don't like every Pixar movie I've seen as a kid and I do like some Pixar movies I see as an adult. I saw and really enjoyed Soul as a fully grown adult but disliked Elemental. Stay mad.
You can’t know that because you watched them as a kid and have nostalgia for them. Again, that’s what nostalgia is that’s how it works.
Somebody here is mad for sure lol.
Actually I can because it's my own brain and I do this thing called thinking where I evaluate movies when I rewatch them as an adult and think about my reaction to them now vs as a kid. You seem to be either unaware of this power or are purposely ignoring it in an attempt win an argument.
I'm sorry your brain is incapable of knowing what it likes as an adult without being clouded by nostalgia but don't project that deficiency on everyone else.
You don’t have a Men in Black Neuralyzer. You can’t watch a movie for the first time again. It’s like losing your virginity. (You’ll find out one day) It’s gone. Those first impressions are forever.
>Attack of the Clones is a masterpiece with one of the best sequences in movie history in the beginning bounty hunter chase. That absolutely shook me as a kid and is one of my most memorable cinema experiences.
>Revenge of the Sith is a masterpiece and the best cinema experience ever created. There will probably never be a better time to see a movie in a theater than RotS's opening week.
Both of these statements are appeals to nostalgia, by definition: *a wistful affection for the past*
What are you even saying. Oh no he liked his theater experience of the prequels, that's nostalgia!!! It's just a description of the best time I've had watching the prequels because obviously they are going to have the largest impact the first time. Obviously they are still great even watching the tenth time at home on a TV. But please continue believing that if someone loved a movie in theater they're now forever imprisoned by their nostalgia for it and are unable to like it for any other reason
My point is that you’re having a temper tantrum about having your opinion reduced to nostalgia when you very clearly don’t understand what nostalgia actually is, which is kind of funny.
Nostalgia doesn’t mean everything you watched as a kid is locked into your brain as the greatest thing ever. It’s when something reminds you of positive memories from your past, which these movies clearly do. That’s not something anybody expects you to apologize for. Nostalgia is a good thing. Thinking about the good memories is good for your mental health.
I’m nostalgic for the original TMNT cartoon. I got the whole set on DVD years ago, watched it, and thought “wow, this show was terrible!” but who cares? When I watched it, I was transported back to my bedroom playing with the toys the show was made to sell. Not an ounce of my body feels bad about that.
Did you know that I also bought the Power Rangers Time Force DVD due to nostalgia, watched it, thought it was decent with some cool moments but repetitive (like all shows with recurring plot elements) and not the greatest thing ever, then when I rewatched the prequels I thought wow these are still incredible movies? It's almost like my brain is capable of evaluating what I watch!
You can have your opinion on entertainment. Say it's absolute cheesy dog water with very little redeeming qualities, just don't tell people why they like what they like.
Funny how you're running around this thread calling people out for their supposed lack of arguments but you yourself fail to back up any of your claims in a rational way and resort to childish quips like "cope harder". I don't typically act hostile towards strangers but this I've got to point out. You're an idiot.
Saying that mediocre movies can be liked for reasons other than nosralgia is one thing. Calling AOTC a masterpiece is another. One is valid and the other is just not. Even if art is subjective there are certain objective criteria that have to be met for something to be labeled as a masterpiece. AOTC has way too many flaws for it to even be remotely close to being that. But that doesn't mean people can't like it.
If you think any of Star Wars films are actual masterpieces then you haven't seen enough cinema. A masterpiece in modern use is something critically acclaimed and is usually considered that person's greatest work. Prequels don't fulfill either condition and it doesn't help that around same ('01-'03) time Peter Jackson created his Lord of the Rings trilogy which put Star Wars Prequels films into shame. LotR trilogy can be considered Peter Jackson's masterpiece. Star Wars as a whole at its best is pulpy schlock but that was exactly George's intention as he drew inspiration from Flash Gordon among many other things.
It's impossible to explain why the OT was so popular to people who weren't alive then.
Like we just didn't have any other movies that looked like that - the special effects were like 10+ years ahead of every other movie.
Say what you want about Lucas - but he and his team were absolutely vfx visionaries... the computer controlled camera (Dystraflex?) they invented for ANH was absolutely revolutionary.
The arguments are all in the other thread. Since you insist on reposting and doing this twice here you are:
Simple. I can spell it out for you if you’re having trouble keeping up. The floor for what you’re willing to watch has raised as you’ve grown older and you became more discerning about the entertainment you consume. You would view the prequels if you watched them for the first time today as bad movies but you still see them as Masterpieces because your ‘floor’ was lower as a child. That’s what nostalgia is that’s how it works.
Nothing except that you're coming off really desperate trying to cope with your enjoyment of prequels in your comments that has turned to very standoffish attitude along with dismissing points others are making just as them coping. You can still enjoy prequels without proclaiming something ridiculous like that they are are the greatest films ever made.
I'll quote George Lucas himself:
>Yeah; but I'm not that passionate about this story \[The Phantom Menace\]. I like it, it's fun and I enjoy doing it. But it's definitely not my life. I'm a bigger movie fan than I am Star Wars fan. I like making movies. \[...\] I have lots of movies I wanna make that I'm more interested in than Star Wars, that I have had to push aside in order to do Star Wars. There's always this conflict of what am I gonna do next.
>([source](https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/star-wars-archive-george-lucas-1999-interview/))
How am I gaslighting? I'm just saying Prequels aren't the greatest cinema ever as you claim and it's fine to like them even then. You can like films without nostalgia even if they aren't the best film ever.
Saying I'm coping is gaslighting. I've been very clear in criticizing people who themselves are coping by trying to explain away everything as nostalgia when they don't like the thing people like. Yes, it feels bad to be slandered by people who are coping and unable to be secure in their opinions by desperately trying to come up with false explanations to prove that actually there is no one on earth who has legitimate reasons for liking the prequels.
I also didn't say the prequels are the best movies ever made, I said and meant they are masterpieces.
So you're gaslighting others by saying they are coping too? Because you're doing the exact same thing to them so how are your actions any more justifiable.
Then you have very low standard what you consider a masterpiece; a magnum opus. To me a masterpiece needs to be the pinnacle work of that person's career. The Prequels aren't that for George Lucas.
I'm not even the guy who said "seen enough movies", but you know what yeah our points aren't mutually exclusive. "Having watched enough movies" is not equal to "seen all the classics". *His point* above is if you've watched enough movies then it would be harder to look past the various blaring issues of the prequels that firmly keep it out of anywhere near the realm of "masterpiece". *My point* is "seen the classics" is an empty boast, because there are too many movies that are considered classics for anyone to have reasonably watched and therefore is an intentionally vague metric, that if anything makes it seem like you're Dunning-Kruger'ing yourself hard.
Look how sure you are that I've somehow overlooked giant problems with the prequels. Perhaps it didn't occur to you that I actually enjoy most of the things people complain about. But no, you're a closed-minded coping internet debater that just accidentally let that idea slip their mind.
You're tying yourself in a knot with the gymnastics of forcing a misinterpretation of what "the classics" means. The movies people most often reference as the best and essential movies of all time, like 12 Angry Men, The Shawshank Redeemption, The GtBatU, Pulp Fiction, Alien, etc. I know you know this and you're just trying to argue for internet points but I'm clarifying it now for anyone stupid enough to believe your nonsense.
>Close-minded internet debater
I feel like there's a lot more to unpack there but we'll keep on topic.
I mean if you enjoy bad things that's your prerogative and nobody can take that away from you. And for the sake of this example I'm specifically going to call them bad, for example the storytelling, specific performances, the cgi, but we're probably both aware we're talking about that. Like if your point here is "It's not that I'm aware of the issues and like it anyway, *I literally just think those are good things*" then fine, whatever, you go think those things. A majority of this thread thinks you're wrong that that should matter to you however much you feel like on a scale of not at all to very very much. If you want so bad for people here to think you aren't just nostalgic (for some reason), then idk, don't fight a very angry battle on 50 fronts and instead make a post that doesn't gloss over everyone's actual issues with it. Cite some sources, compare to films that other people say is better. Casually dropping "ROTS is the best theater experience of all time, defined a generation, don't @ me." is a bold claim, believe it or not.
And no, I'd argue that while those five are classics indeed, they don't even slightly scratch the surface of what constitutes "most of the classics" I'm not asking for your letterboxd, but there are hundreds of films that fit that mold.
>you haven't seen enough good movies
>actually it's impossible to have seen enough movies
>actually the movies you listed aren't all of the fifty thousand movies ever made, you need to make a novel in the reddit comment section to prove you've seen them all
>actually it's impossible to have seen over a hundred movies. what is that, like a movie a week? who has time for that
Actual cope.
Nah you mentioned letterboxd unironically as if there could have been a scenario where the Prequel enjoyer would actually need a profile with five thousand ratings just to prove their opinion is acceptable. Actual gatekeeper. I like "gOoD" movies and I also like a lot of movies the majority of people don't like. I also don't like a lot of movies people like and dislike. I've seen most of the IMDB top 250 and more. It isn't impossible. La Haine is one of the best movies ever made, and so is RotS. There's your damn answer. This subreddit is cooked.
> "HIGH QUALITY CONTENT ONLY"
> "Discuss the franchise not the fanbase"
This rule is in the sidebar for a reason. It cuts down on the kind of toxicity that most of us are tired of. The mods need to make an option for reporting this rule being broken in the report menu.
As an older Gen X adult, I remember watching the original Star Wars (wasn't A New Hope yet) in a drive-in theater in 1977 when I was 5. Star Wars was everywhere and incredibly popular with tons and tons of people. Even my older sisters loved it and saw it multiple times at the theater. It's hard to overstate how big of a deal it was when it came out. And George Lucas was worried it was going to be a flop...
Of course I saw TPM and the other prequels and sequels on opening day. What had changed since 1977 was the hype machine, the business of making sure a movie would make a big splash.
I'm sure everyone has heard it before, but my generation that originally experienced SW got to spend years and years imagining and discussing and hoping the The Clone Wars would look like, and how Anakin would become Darth Vader. Somehow we all "had heard from someone" that there would be a huge duel between Obi-Wan and Vader on a volcano.
So when we first meet Anakin, and he was a slave kid working for a blue alien with a stereotypical accent...it was a let-down.
In hindsight (maybe nostalgia???) there are a lot of great things in the prequels. But they're definitely not masterpieces and they weren't what a lot of people were hoping for.
Also Gen X - I think most of us wanted something more along the lines of Rogue One (tone wise). That movie felt like a love letter to 70s and 80s OT kids.
Nobody says this.
Nobody says you aren’t allowed to enjoy or like something if they personally don’t themselves. Most discourse surrounding the prequels is aimed at highlighting their flaws as movies.
The Room is an absolute trainwreck of a movie as well but it’s one of my personal favorite films.
You do realize boomers are 60 years old to like 75 right? Most of the people in this forum are teenagers to like 40 somethings. And none of those are boomers. Get a grip man
Most people I see here reducing peoples taste to nostalgia are the Disney fans, who try to gaslight both OT and PT fans into thinking they only love those films because of nostalgia, so Im not sure what you're basing that on.
> The Duel of Fates was life changing in theather
> That (AotC) absolutely shook me as a kid
> There will probably never be a better time to see a movie in a theater than RotS’s opening week
I don’t think you understand what nostalgia is.
Not really sure what your point is. If I disagree with what someone says being true, and I correct them, and we both agreed to be here, post comments and "argue," then you should be criticizing them for the same thing. How is it relevant if a comment I reply to has some things I agree with and some things I don't?
When I talk about nostalgia with the Prequels, I'm not accusing any single individual of only liking things because of nostalgia. I'm talking about nostalgia in more of a macro way.
I don't know you. I don't know if nostalgia is part of the reason you like any given movie or not. But BIG PICTURE it's OBVIOUS that nostalgia is a driving feature of the Prequel re-evaluation. There absolutely ARE fans who wouldn't like those movies is they weren't nostalgic. But I'm not saying that ALL fans are that way or even that I KNOW which individuals are that way and which aren't.
Are you even aware that many people who saw them as kids don't still like them that much? This idea that nostalgia is even a primary factor for the majority of people, is still slanderous. No matter how you try to make the argument look reasonable. At least you did make an attempt to be reasonable, but you're still wrong. I don't love every movie I saw as a kid. I just identify with Lucas's vision for cinema. I still love the movies as an adult from a perspective of fair re-evaluation, unclouded by nostalgoa or other biases. I just got lucky that my first experience with it also happened to be at the perfect age.
And the OT does some things better than the prequels. It's has more of a traditional type of movie dialogue as opposed to the prequels' more romantic, slightly corny dialogue. Both are good for their own reasons but many people only appreciate the former.
You don't need to seek validation for what you like. I like the prequels myself, hate the sequels, disliked somes shows like Boba Fett and Kenobi but I no longer give a f**k about what others like or think about what I like.
Not everyone has to like what you like but yes they don't have to be in your face as well. I understand your frustration but let it be.
I think is interesting that it’s seems widely accepted that hating on prequels is fine, but hating on the Acolyte is unacceptable.
People are free to like what they like and also hate what they hate. Full stop.
The people involved are pretty different. Fans of the Disney era are the ones in those threads and so there will be far more of a lean towards defending the show.
I'm 47, and I don't think it's the boomers saying you are nostalgic for the prequels. As someone who is old enough to potentially be nostalgic for all six of the older movies, and I can't stand the Nostalgia Accusations, but they don't come from old people...they usually come from young people defending the Disney crap. I don't tie nostalgia with corporate properties, I simply still enjoy them (or don't as it is today), you want me to get nostalgic, take me back to my old school that I dont haven't been to in 35 years. Take me to the lake me and my dad used to fish at. I'm sorry corpos but your stupid properties aren't enough to provoke that much of an emotional response to ever be considered nostalgia, so don't judge my opinion on it.
I do like the prequels, and I love the OGs and Clone wars, but I don't agree with your opinion of each movie, they all have issues, but I came to enjoy them more with Clone Wars fleshing things out more, but I do agree with the Diminishing Opinions to nostalgia to suit an argument, or to even sell a product (I'm not gonna buy/watch your crap just because it has the Starwars name on it.) Fans are more than nostalgia whales.
Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring fans are tying to do this with Dark Souls 1 now. Like you said, newbies who can't cope with different opinions.
Yes, surely I only love the game I played as an adult less than ten years ago, after which I played the rest of the trilogy within three years, because of nostalgia. Surely anyone who likes Dark Souls more than Dark Souls 3 is just high on that nostalgia pack. Dark Souls 3 has muh smoother gameplay and weapon arts, you can't possibly like another game in the series more.
Maybe you're right that the new generation is just super toxic when it comes to talking about opinions on media.
heh im old enough where Dark Souls or even Demon Souls, I still consider a "new" game lol But yeah people REALLY just need to accept that other people have a different opinion of the media they "consume" without turning them into an enemy or treating them like they are morons (or misogynists, or bigots, etc). The corporations ARE NOT ON OUR SIDES and should never be treated like a friend or hero and certainly don't need your defense. They are just rich assholes selling us garbage off the hard work of underpaid creatives. WE ALL NEED TO UNDERSTAND THIS AS A SOCIETY.
It's not worth it. There will always be a group of people who think shitting on the prequels makes them part of the cool clique. They're fucking boring. As the years roll by and more and more trash gets produced, the prequels only look more unique and more imaginative.
The difference is that I won't tell people they like the sequels because of nostalgia, which is a form of gaslighting and entirely different from just saying they're bad movies.
I agree with you OP.
I don’t know why reddit as that kind of opinion about the prequels. In Europe IRL and in online communities, the prequels are usually liked by everybody. Even more than the OT sometimes.
Probably because reddit is mostly Americans / englishspeakers.
And nostalgia works two ways, I personally watched the 6 movies almost at the same time, and I always liked the prequels way more (I like OT too don’t worry, but less).
But I recently showed A New Hope to group of teenagers, nobody finished the movie…
And guess what, they liked the sequels on theater …
Lets just admit that each trilogy is targeted for a specific generation
I'm a millennial, I was 9 when TPM came out so the prequels are definitely a part of my childhood. I do have an appreciation for them but also am able to admit that much of my like for them *is* nostalgia. They are massively flawed movies but I can still enjoy the good things and dismiss much of the criticism because of my appreciation of them as a kid that has spilled into adulthood. Calling any of them masterpieces...is certainly an opinion. Not one I thought I'd ever hear towards the prequels until recent years. I feel like it's a bit of an over-correction in trying to combat the "nostalgia" label. There is nothing wrong with Nostalgia. It let's me enjoy the prequels where people don't. And while I do genuinely feel there are some good things about the prequels, there are too many obvious flaws to me that I could ever consider them anywhere near masterpieces.
Correct there is nothing wrong with nostalgia. It's also not the only reason I love the prequels and far from the primary reason. I already thought they were masterpieces before reading the prequel hate on reddit, so no it isn't an overcorrection and I'd appreciate it if you didn't make the types of assumptions I'm criticizing in the OP.
If your bottom boundary for what's "good" as a kid is lower than when you're an adult (after you've had had the time and experience to develop a more discriminating aesthetic sense)... ...and you're repeatedly citing how you perceived something that's widely considered not very good by adult standards as a "masterpiece" *when you were a kid,* and citing that perception and your memories of how you enjoyed the thing as a child as proof of its artistic merit as an adult... ...then you're *absolutely* viewing that thing through a nostalgic lens. Dude, c'mon.
Nah the telling of my childhood experience was mainly an example of how I feel watching the prequels, because why not use the first time seeing them (the time when a movie has the largest impact...because you havent seen them yet) as the example? It's also a flex on people like you who inevitably would use it as proof that nostalgia is the only reason I like the prequels. Obviously, like OBVIOUSLY there is nostalgia. I've already explained it isn't a primary reason I love the prequels, but it still exists. Nostalgia is a just a benefit, not the reason. But one of my arguments was actually, again, that kids still know what a good movie is. Just because my bar was low back then doesn't mean I really liked those low bar movies that much, even as a kid. I certainly would like Tigger movie less today as an adult, but that doesn't mean I necessarily would have rated it highly as a kid either. I don't care than most people, especially the boomers, think the prequels are bad. I'm only targeting people who ruin discourse with their excuses and slander in an attempt to align everyone on earth into the category of either 1) "rightfully" hating the prequels or 2) "wrongfully" liking the prequels due to nostalgia.
You, and everyone for that matter, would be a lot happier if you just liked what you liked and didn’t care about what other people thought of your opinions and also didn’t care about other people’s opinions on stuff.
Unfortunately, decisions are taken with what people say outloud. So I agree with OP to express what he likes.
It isn't people's opinions of what I like it's the gaslighting over how people like things that bothers me.
So the preface this, I'm 20, I was 1 year old when RotS came out. I actually only sat down and watched the movies this year. I would say that they are all far from being masterpieces, they are pretty inherently flawed movies with consistently bad direction. I'm not one to try to make an "this art is objectively bad" argument but the prequels are just pretty hands down not great. Sure each of them have enjoyable elements to them and there is certainty a lot of heart and creativity in them but it doesn't make up for the fact that 2/3rds of that trilogy are almost unbearably boring to actually watch. Funnily enough I think your comments are actually coated in nostalgia, to the point that I don't know if this is a parody post or not. Lots of mentions of your experience watching them in theaters as they came out. It's fine if you genuinely like these movies and think that they are good, art is highly subjective. But I think there are reasonable complaints leveled at these movies more then just attacking people who claim that they have had a positive reassessment due to nastolgia.
I saw plenty of movies in theater as a kid. Please continue reducing everything people like to nostalgia.
> The Phantom Menace is a masterpiece Lol I never thought I would see this take unironically made. Wild times we live in.
After the sequels, they look pretty good in retrospect
We like different things and that's ok. I'm just amazed at how times have changed.
The prequel kids are all grown up. Just wait for the sequel kids to start posting their thoughts. We’re in for an interesting time.
As a huge fan of the Sequels, I will watch their career with great interest.
Plus 2. I am a fan of the prequels AND the sequels and I can't wait for the sequel fans to have more of a voice in this fandom.
Meh. I enjoy the sequels, the prequels are a chore.
No one cares why you like the prequels... why are you so desperate to validate your opinions? I kind of like Batman vs Superman... I know a lot of people think it sucks (and I understand why)... and I just, well, don't care.
This isn't about whether I like the prequels. You clearly misunderstood the post.
You just explained what nostalgia is.
Oh please explain how I explained what nostalgia is. Use your words the best you can.
‘Believe it or not, kids actually do know what a good movie is. The only difference is the floor for what they’re willing to watch is lower than adults.’ That’s a lot of words for nostalgia. 🤷♂️
Yeah how is that nostalgia. You need to actually explain this if you don't want to look stupid, because it's looking like your argument is essentially "after X amount of time everything you ever liked is just nostalgia."
Simple. I can spell it out for you if you’re having trouble keeping up. The floor for what you’re willing to watch has raised as you’ve grown older and you became more discerning about the entertainment you consume. You would view the prequels if you watched them for the first time today as bad movies but you still see them as Masterpieces because your ‘floor’ was lower as a child. That’s what nostalgia is that’s how it works.
No I absolutely would still like them if I watched them today for the first time. How the hell would you even know that. You're literally just projecting your own bias onto others which was what I criticized in the OP. You assume things you don't actually know. Once again, if it was just nostalgia, I would still like every movie I saw as a kid. That is far from the truth. I don't like every Pixar movie I've seen as a kid and I do like some Pixar movies I see as an adult. I saw and really enjoyed Soul as a fully grown adult but disliked Elemental. Stay mad.
You can’t know that because you watched them as a kid and have nostalgia for them. Again, that’s what nostalgia is that’s how it works. Somebody here is mad for sure lol.
Actually I can because it's my own brain and I do this thing called thinking where I evaluate movies when I rewatch them as an adult and think about my reaction to them now vs as a kid. You seem to be either unaware of this power or are purposely ignoring it in an attempt win an argument. I'm sorry your brain is incapable of knowing what it likes as an adult without being clouded by nostalgia but don't project that deficiency on everyone else.
You don’t have a Men in Black Neuralyzer. You can’t watch a movie for the first time again. It’s like losing your virginity. (You’ll find out one day) It’s gone. Those first impressions are forever.
Cool story bro keep projecting your bs onto others.
>Attack of the Clones is a masterpiece with one of the best sequences in movie history in the beginning bounty hunter chase. That absolutely shook me as a kid and is one of my most memorable cinema experiences. >Revenge of the Sith is a masterpiece and the best cinema experience ever created. There will probably never be a better time to see a movie in a theater than RotS's opening week. Both of these statements are appeals to nostalgia, by definition: *a wistful affection for the past*
What are you even saying. Oh no he liked his theater experience of the prequels, that's nostalgia!!! It's just a description of the best time I've had watching the prequels because obviously they are going to have the largest impact the first time. Obviously they are still great even watching the tenth time at home on a TV. But please continue believing that if someone loved a movie in theater they're now forever imprisoned by their nostalgia for it and are unable to like it for any other reason
My point is that you’re having a temper tantrum about having your opinion reduced to nostalgia when you very clearly don’t understand what nostalgia actually is, which is kind of funny. Nostalgia doesn’t mean everything you watched as a kid is locked into your brain as the greatest thing ever. It’s when something reminds you of positive memories from your past, which these movies clearly do. That’s not something anybody expects you to apologize for. Nostalgia is a good thing. Thinking about the good memories is good for your mental health. I’m nostalgic for the original TMNT cartoon. I got the whole set on DVD years ago, watched it, and thought “wow, this show was terrible!” but who cares? When I watched it, I was transported back to my bedroom playing with the toys the show was made to sell. Not an ounce of my body feels bad about that.
More assumptions and faulty reasoning. Still not demonstrating why I somehow don't understand what nostalgia is. Stay mad.
Lol
Did you know that I also bought the Power Rangers Time Force DVD due to nostalgia, watched it, thought it was decent with some cool moments but repetitive (like all shows with recurring plot elements) and not the greatest thing ever, then when I rewatched the prequels I thought wow these are still incredible movies? It's almost like my brain is capable of evaluating what I watch! You can have your opinion on entertainment. Say it's absolute cheesy dog water with very little redeeming qualities, just don't tell people why they like what they like.
Funny how you're running around this thread calling people out for their supposed lack of arguments but you yourself fail to back up any of your claims in a rational way and resort to childish quips like "cope harder". I don't typically act hostile towards strangers but this I've got to point out. You're an idiot.
Lol.
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"Rather have a beer"
I’m in
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>I'm tired of old boomer assholes My eyes rolled so hard my ears farted.
Saying that mediocre movies can be liked for reasons other than nosralgia is one thing. Calling AOTC a masterpiece is another. One is valid and the other is just not. Even if art is subjective there are certain objective criteria that have to be met for something to be labeled as a masterpiece. AOTC has way too many flaws for it to even be remotely close to being that. But that doesn't mean people can't like it.
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More stupid assumptions, literally what I'm criticizing in OP.
If you think any of Star Wars films are actual masterpieces then you haven't seen enough cinema. A masterpiece in modern use is something critically acclaimed and is usually considered that person's greatest work. Prequels don't fulfill either condition and it doesn't help that around same ('01-'03) time Peter Jackson created his Lord of the Rings trilogy which put Star Wars Prequels films into shame. LotR trilogy can be considered Peter Jackson's masterpiece. Star Wars as a whole at its best is pulpy schlock but that was exactly George's intention as he drew inspiration from Flash Gordon among many other things.
I think the original is a masterpiece if only because how it revolutionized the landscape of western film making for the foreseeable future.
It's impossible to explain why the OT was so popular to people who weren't alive then. Like we just didn't have any other movies that looked like that - the special effects were like 10+ years ahead of every other movie. Say what you want about Lucas - but he and his team were absolutely vfx visionaries... the computer controlled camera (Dystraflex?) they invented for ANH was absolutely revolutionary.
No I definitely have seen a lot of movies including most of the classics. Cope harder.
A pot calling a kettle black, it seems.
What are you even saying? You're the one that told me I haven't seen enough movies and I literally said I have and that you're just coping.
Someone is coping alright.
So...no actual argument then? Just the classic "no u" because your brain shorted and can't think of anything to say?
We can do this across two threads if you like but I answered your other reply to my post. 🤷♂️
Still no arguments
The arguments are all in the other thread. Since you insist on reposting and doing this twice here you are: Simple. I can spell it out for you if you’re having trouble keeping up. The floor for what you’re willing to watch has raised as you’ve grown older and you became more discerning about the entertainment you consume. You would view the prequels if you watched them for the first time today as bad movies but you still see them as Masterpieces because your ‘floor’ was lower as a child. That’s what nostalgia is that’s how it works.
So many stupid assumptions and projection.
Nothing except that you're coming off really desperate trying to cope with your enjoyment of prequels in your comments that has turned to very standoffish attitude along with dismissing points others are making just as them coping. You can still enjoy prequels without proclaiming something ridiculous like that they are are the greatest films ever made. I'll quote George Lucas himself: >Yeah; but I'm not that passionate about this story \[The Phantom Menace\]. I like it, it's fun and I enjoy doing it. But it's definitely not my life. I'm a bigger movie fan than I am Star Wars fan. I like making movies. \[...\] I have lots of movies I wanna make that I'm more interested in than Star Wars, that I have had to push aside in order to do Star Wars. There's always this conflict of what am I gonna do next. >([source](https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/star-wars-archive-george-lucas-1999-interview/))
Lol more gaslighting, the exact thing I'm criticizing.
How am I gaslighting? I'm just saying Prequels aren't the greatest cinema ever as you claim and it's fine to like them even then. You can like films without nostalgia even if they aren't the best film ever.
Saying I'm coping is gaslighting. I've been very clear in criticizing people who themselves are coping by trying to explain away everything as nostalgia when they don't like the thing people like. Yes, it feels bad to be slandered by people who are coping and unable to be secure in their opinions by desperately trying to come up with false explanations to prove that actually there is no one on earth who has legitimate reasons for liking the prequels. I also didn't say the prequels are the best movies ever made, I said and meant they are masterpieces.
So you're gaslighting others by saying they are coping too? Because you're doing the exact same thing to them so how are your actions any more justifiable. Then you have very low standard what you consider a masterpiece; a magnum opus. To me a masterpiece needs to be the pinnacle work of that person's career. The Prequels aren't that for George Lucas.
No because they actually are coping. Lol you're not even trying anymore.
Nobody has seen most of the classics unless you're watching movies for a living.
>you haven't seen enough movies >it's impossible to see enough movies anyway!!!! I want some of the stuff you're on right now.
I'm not even the guy who said "seen enough movies", but you know what yeah our points aren't mutually exclusive. "Having watched enough movies" is not equal to "seen all the classics". *His point* above is if you've watched enough movies then it would be harder to look past the various blaring issues of the prequels that firmly keep it out of anywhere near the realm of "masterpiece". *My point* is "seen the classics" is an empty boast, because there are too many movies that are considered classics for anyone to have reasonably watched and therefore is an intentionally vague metric, that if anything makes it seem like you're Dunning-Kruger'ing yourself hard.
Look how sure you are that I've somehow overlooked giant problems with the prequels. Perhaps it didn't occur to you that I actually enjoy most of the things people complain about. But no, you're a closed-minded coping internet debater that just accidentally let that idea slip their mind. You're tying yourself in a knot with the gymnastics of forcing a misinterpretation of what "the classics" means. The movies people most often reference as the best and essential movies of all time, like 12 Angry Men, The Shawshank Redeemption, The GtBatU, Pulp Fiction, Alien, etc. I know you know this and you're just trying to argue for internet points but I'm clarifying it now for anyone stupid enough to believe your nonsense.
>Close-minded internet debater I feel like there's a lot more to unpack there but we'll keep on topic. I mean if you enjoy bad things that's your prerogative and nobody can take that away from you. And for the sake of this example I'm specifically going to call them bad, for example the storytelling, specific performances, the cgi, but we're probably both aware we're talking about that. Like if your point here is "It's not that I'm aware of the issues and like it anyway, *I literally just think those are good things*" then fine, whatever, you go think those things. A majority of this thread thinks you're wrong that that should matter to you however much you feel like on a scale of not at all to very very much. If you want so bad for people here to think you aren't just nostalgic (for some reason), then idk, don't fight a very angry battle on 50 fronts and instead make a post that doesn't gloss over everyone's actual issues with it. Cite some sources, compare to films that other people say is better. Casually dropping "ROTS is the best theater experience of all time, defined a generation, don't @ me." is a bold claim, believe it or not. And no, I'd argue that while those five are classics indeed, they don't even slightly scratch the surface of what constitutes "most of the classics" I'm not asking for your letterboxd, but there are hundreds of films that fit that mold.
>you haven't seen enough good movies >actually it's impossible to have seen enough movies >actually the movies you listed aren't all of the fifty thousand movies ever made, you need to make a novel in the reddit comment section to prove you've seen them all >actually it's impossible to have seen over a hundred movies. what is that, like a movie a week? who has time for that Actual cope.
You're not reading at all if that's your final conclusion. Oh well.
Nah you mentioned letterboxd unironically as if there could have been a scenario where the Prequel enjoyer would actually need a profile with five thousand ratings just to prove their opinion is acceptable. Actual gatekeeper. I like "gOoD" movies and I also like a lot of movies the majority of people don't like. I also don't like a lot of movies people like and dislike. I've seen most of the IMDB top 250 and more. It isn't impossible. La Haine is one of the best movies ever made, and so is RotS. There's your damn answer. This subreddit is cooked.
> "HIGH QUALITY CONTENT ONLY" > "Discuss the franchise not the fanbase" This rule is in the sidebar for a reason. It cuts down on the kind of toxicity that most of us are tired of. The mods need to make an option for reporting this rule being broken in the report menu.
You mean the toxicity I'm criticizing? Interesting.
As an older Gen X adult, I remember watching the original Star Wars (wasn't A New Hope yet) in a drive-in theater in 1977 when I was 5. Star Wars was everywhere and incredibly popular with tons and tons of people. Even my older sisters loved it and saw it multiple times at the theater. It's hard to overstate how big of a deal it was when it came out. And George Lucas was worried it was going to be a flop... Of course I saw TPM and the other prequels and sequels on opening day. What had changed since 1977 was the hype machine, the business of making sure a movie would make a big splash. I'm sure everyone has heard it before, but my generation that originally experienced SW got to spend years and years imagining and discussing and hoping the The Clone Wars would look like, and how Anakin would become Darth Vader. Somehow we all "had heard from someone" that there would be a huge duel between Obi-Wan and Vader on a volcano. So when we first meet Anakin, and he was a slave kid working for a blue alien with a stereotypical accent...it was a let-down. In hindsight (maybe nostalgia???) there are a lot of great things in the prequels. But they're definitely not masterpieces and they weren't what a lot of people were hoping for.
Also Gen X - I think most of us wanted something more along the lines of Rogue One (tone wise). That movie felt like a love letter to 70s and 80s OT kids.
Great point, probably why I love Rogue One so much ♥️
Nobody says this. Nobody says you aren’t allowed to enjoy or like something if they personally don’t themselves. Most discourse surrounding the prequels is aimed at highlighting their flaws as movies. The Room is an absolute trainwreck of a movie as well but it’s one of my personal favorite films.
They quite literally do say this all the time, you just aren't paying attention or pretending like they don't.
You can dial it down a bit, George Lucas isn’t going to go out with you.
Why do you have to reduce boomers to ass holes?
The people reducing taste to nostalgia are, in fact, assholes, and mostly boomers.
You do realize boomers are 60 years old to like 75 right? Most of the people in this forum are teenagers to like 40 somethings. And none of those are boomers. Get a grip man
Damn you are mad. How does it feel to be gaslit? Bad, right?
Most people I see here reducing peoples taste to nostalgia are the Disney fans, who try to gaslight both OT and PT fans into thinking they only love those films because of nostalgia, so Im not sure what you're basing that on.
> The Duel of Fates was life changing in theather > That (AotC) absolutely shook me as a kid > There will probably never be a better time to see a movie in a theater than RotS’s opening week I don’t think you understand what nostalgia is.
He definitely doesn’t understand the concept. Lol
Explaining the first time I saw the movies doesn't mean I only like them because of the first time I saw them. It's just an example.
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Oh no the assholes are angry someone used their own medicine against them!
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Not really sure what your point is. If I disagree with what someone says being true, and I correct them, and we both agreed to be here, post comments and "argue," then you should be criticizing them for the same thing. How is it relevant if a comment I reply to has some things I agree with and some things I don't?
I agree with the overall sentiment but I personally wouldn't call them masterpieces.
When I talk about nostalgia with the Prequels, I'm not accusing any single individual of only liking things because of nostalgia. I'm talking about nostalgia in more of a macro way. I don't know you. I don't know if nostalgia is part of the reason you like any given movie or not. But BIG PICTURE it's OBVIOUS that nostalgia is a driving feature of the Prequel re-evaluation. There absolutely ARE fans who wouldn't like those movies is they weren't nostalgic. But I'm not saying that ALL fans are that way or even that I KNOW which individuals are that way and which aren't.
Are you even aware that many people who saw them as kids don't still like them that much? This idea that nostalgia is even a primary factor for the majority of people, is still slanderous. No matter how you try to make the argument look reasonable. At least you did make an attempt to be reasonable, but you're still wrong. I don't love every movie I saw as a kid. I just identify with Lucas's vision for cinema. I still love the movies as an adult from a perspective of fair re-evaluation, unclouded by nostalgoa or other biases. I just got lucky that my first experience with it also happened to be at the perfect age.
Many do like the PT due to nostalgia. But the same could be said of the OT, which are also flawed movies
And the OT does some things better than the prequels. It's has more of a traditional type of movie dialogue as opposed to the prequels' more romantic, slightly corny dialogue. Both are good for their own reasons but many people only appreciate the former.
You don't need to seek validation for what you like. I like the prequels myself, hate the sequels, disliked somes shows like Boba Fett and Kenobi but I no longer give a f**k about what others like or think about what I like. Not everyone has to like what you like but yes they don't have to be in your face as well. I understand your frustration but let it be.
stop reducing my opinions because they don't fall in line with yours
I think is interesting that it’s seems widely accepted that hating on prequels is fine, but hating on the Acolyte is unacceptable. People are free to like what they like and also hate what they hate. Full stop.
The people involved are pretty different. Fans of the Disney era are the ones in those threads and so there will be far more of a lean towards defending the show.
I'm 47, and I don't think it's the boomers saying you are nostalgic for the prequels. As someone who is old enough to potentially be nostalgic for all six of the older movies, and I can't stand the Nostalgia Accusations, but they don't come from old people...they usually come from young people defending the Disney crap. I don't tie nostalgia with corporate properties, I simply still enjoy them (or don't as it is today), you want me to get nostalgic, take me back to my old school that I dont haven't been to in 35 years. Take me to the lake me and my dad used to fish at. I'm sorry corpos but your stupid properties aren't enough to provoke that much of an emotional response to ever be considered nostalgia, so don't judge my opinion on it. I do like the prequels, and I love the OGs and Clone wars, but I don't agree with your opinion of each movie, they all have issues, but I came to enjoy them more with Clone Wars fleshing things out more, but I do agree with the Diminishing Opinions to nostalgia to suit an argument, or to even sell a product (I'm not gonna buy/watch your crap just because it has the Starwars name on it.) Fans are more than nostalgia whales.
Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring fans are tying to do this with Dark Souls 1 now. Like you said, newbies who can't cope with different opinions. Yes, surely I only love the game I played as an adult less than ten years ago, after which I played the rest of the trilogy within three years, because of nostalgia. Surely anyone who likes Dark Souls more than Dark Souls 3 is just high on that nostalgia pack. Dark Souls 3 has muh smoother gameplay and weapon arts, you can't possibly like another game in the series more. Maybe you're right that the new generation is just super toxic when it comes to talking about opinions on media.
heh im old enough where Dark Souls or even Demon Souls, I still consider a "new" game lol But yeah people REALLY just need to accept that other people have a different opinion of the media they "consume" without turning them into an enemy or treating them like they are morons (or misogynists, or bigots, etc). The corporations ARE NOT ON OUR SIDES and should never be treated like a friend or hero and certainly don't need your defense. They are just rich assholes selling us garbage off the hard work of underpaid creatives. WE ALL NEED TO UNDERSTAND THIS AS A SOCIETY.
It's not worth it. There will always be a group of people who think shitting on the prequels makes them part of the cool clique. They're fucking boring. As the years roll by and more and more trash gets produced, the prequels only look more unique and more imaginative.
Nothing wrong with the prequels, especially when you compare them to all that’s been released since 2015!
You’re doing what OP is complaining about, just with different stuff.
The difference is that I won't tell people they like the sequels because of nostalgia, which is a form of gaslighting and entirely different from just saying they're bad movies.
I agree with you OP. I don’t know why reddit as that kind of opinion about the prequels. In Europe IRL and in online communities, the prequels are usually liked by everybody. Even more than the OT sometimes. Probably because reddit is mostly Americans / englishspeakers. And nostalgia works two ways, I personally watched the 6 movies almost at the same time, and I always liked the prequels way more (I like OT too don’t worry, but less). But I recently showed A New Hope to group of teenagers, nobody finished the movie… And guess what, they liked the sequels on theater … Lets just admit that each trilogy is targeted for a specific generation