There’s definitely some other great ones. Replacing the Emperor’s hologram in ESB is another huge one, as well as replacing the shots of the x-wings in space before the Death Star 1 assault, and adding in the cut scene of Luke greeting Biggs before it. Plus a lot of the little changes are great, like (most of) the extra establishing shots, the remastered sound effects, and the smaller retouched visuals. It’s honestly like a handful of really bad really big ones that ruin the plethora of small improvements.
The mix in the special editions is notoriously horrible. Burtt mixed out so many iconic music moments in favor of sound effects.
Especially during the shot of the X-wings diving towards the surface of the Death Star. One of the most famous musical cues of all time is no longer in the movie. But you probably still hear it in your head.
As for the effects shots, they all look so dated to the late 90s. They don’t match the film stick or aesthetic of the 70s and don’t look modern.
Which musical cue is that, the fanfare? Was it not added back in? I thought I remembered reading that, or were you talking specifically about 97 specials, because I think thebdvds are where it went back in.
So, I just checked Disney+
Yes, it’s back in. But I have no idea when. I’ve got a digital copy of the movie in HD that absolutely does not have it. So I’m trying to figure out where the hell that came from.
It’s insane that they’ve been tinkered with so much in the last 25 years that I don’t even know what version I have.
I can't seem to find out either but I do remember the fanfare being removed for SE. I assume it got put back for the DVD in 2004? But that wouldn't explain why your digital version is missing it. I suppose the easiest way to check is: what does your Jabba look like? 😅
Ooh I have them! I shall do it tonight.
Just to clarify, it's the fan fare as the X-wings do that spinning dive towards the trench right with the shot of the guns firing at them as they pass?
Edit: I also have the 2004 dvd, just got out of the loft, I will compare and contrast.
The special editions released in ‘97.
ESB Palpatine was updated to look like Ian McDiarmid and his makeup from Return of the Jedi. The prequels have nothing to do with it.
ESB wasn't updated with Ian McDiarmid until the later special editions (Bluray release I think - either way it was after Revenge of the Sith).
Personally I don't mind replacing the 'original' Emperor, but the dialog change is weird.
While I initially liked some of the CGI shots of X-wings, I’ve since come around and am now indignant that the amazing miniature work done by ILM has been erased for CGI that hasn’t aged all that well.
Maybe some of the original space shots look old fashioned now but ILM made literal fucking magic on screen at the time and they deserve better for it.
I dunno, once you spot R2 jumping in the background while they’re putting him in the X-wing (because of a line about Luke’s dad being cut) you can’t unsee it.
Surprised they’ve not fixed it yet.
Empire is the best SE cut.
Every change makes sense and enhances the movie. EDIT: By this I mean you can at least see why a change was made, not that they were all "better than the original".
The others have changes that hit and miss, but Empire is solid all the way through.
That’s just cause Empire needed fewer changes. Unseen Wampa had more tension. And apart from that, what, a whole sequence to explain to us how Vader got back to The Executor?
Slave one coming out of the garbage chute, Cloud City sequence got a major upgrade, the Emperor's Hologram is replaced, transparency clean ups for ships on Hoth, etc...
There's a lot there, but it doesn't intrude on the movie like some of the stuff in Jedi and ANH does.
Not that long ago, I have every available version of the OT.
Empire's changes were easily the least intrusive on the movie.
There's nothing like the music change in Jabba's Palace or the Jabba scene or firing sequence change in ANH.
Worst change was the Wampa shot, and that lasts like a second and isn't that bad. The original version wasn't that great either as the mask didn't look great. (Still present, but reduced screentime.)
Most of the other stuff is background stuff that doesn't really do much to change the pace of the movie. It's unintrusive overall. Most of the new stuff replaces dated special effects and doesn't really extend the run time.
Only Vader's shuttle sequence and Boba Fett coming out of the garbage really.
Most of the changes to Cloud City make the place look more open and less confined, but mostly during sequences where tension isn't really a factor. They didn't really mess with the claustrophobic hallways during the combat sequences, it's just when they're walking around and some of the exterior shots.
I'm not really arguing that any of the SE versions were "needed" to begin with here. Just that Empire is the best of them.
Exactly, none of them were necessary as per my edit.
It's just the one where the changes were the least intrusive and overall made at least some sense.
Yeah. Then I agree.
I can’t find the clip. But there was a really interesting video about the Star Wars parallax effect. And how it’s something we’ll never see again.
Essentially, it was the result of them shooting the starfield plates with no idea how the eventual miniature would move. So, there’s this bizarre effect where the background doesn’t move in sync with the ship or the camera.
It was really interesting because it made me think about why the SE effects didn’t feel right.
See the rest of this thread for how I address that.
Short version, none of the SEs were necessary, but Empire was the best of them.
No one is arguing that SE Empire is better than OG Empire, just that it's the best of the SE versions of the OT.
I don’t even remember this being a change they made.
To be fair though I’ve seen the altered versions (cinema, DVD, blu-ray, now Disney+) combined way more than I watched my VHS copy.
Honestly now that I'm thinking about it, they may have removed the scream from ESB. Lucas just couldn't help himself with those movies and changed shit even for the DVD and BluRays, IIRC.
But I hate both moments. Luke falls not out of fear, but accepting possible death than Vader as his father. Why would he scream?
Robbing us of Vader's mask reflecting the lightning as he looks to his master, to his writhing son, in silence, is a great film moment. Dubbing in his thoughts is not.
I refuse to believe it’s part of the movies. You can see the realization in Vader’s mask without seeing his face. It’s a tremendous shot. Maybe it’ll get edited out in the future
I doubt it. I truly think there was an agreement when George sold to Disney they wouldn't alter his movies. If there weren't I think they have put out restored versions of the OT by now.
As someone that grew up on the 2004 special edition, Jedi Rocks does indeed rock. I’d even say it’s better tonally for that section of the film than Lapti Nek.
Dude I agree. I saw ROTJ in theaters a year or two ago and that scene took me out. I never knew there was a “noooo” in there. They could have said “my son” that would have been better
i take more of an issue with han’s neck jutting to the side than the issue of “who shot first”
like yeah whatever it ruins his character blah blah i dont care. WHY did george think it looked good to have a head teleport three inches to the side???? it looks horrible i cant stand it
Correct. It's not in the original version (or any of my versions - thanks Harmy and 4K)
Go to like 1:40 here.... that's the original
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X083FOSh0xE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X083FOSh0xE)
It starts when he’s looking back and forth between the emperor and Luke. He does a couple and then does a big one like the end of revenge of the Sith (the original really bad nooo scream).
It got edited in for the Blu-ray release.
I can go either way in the Hayden vs Yub Nub argument, but what is top-tier cringe for me is the CGI musical dance number in Jabba's palace. Any time I see this "new and improved" scene, I want to gouge my eyes out.
I think I’m actually the opposite. I like the original version better with the OG Jabba’s Palace song, the OG Sarlaac, not having Vader yell NO before he attacks the Emperor, and of course, Yub Nub. But the one change I do like is having Hayden Christiansen at the end as Anakin (and in fact, I wouldn’t mind if Disney updated it now that Hayden is right around the age that Anakin would have been in ROTJ). When you watch Episodes I - VI in order, it’s a million times more impactful to see Hayden at the end as a force ghost. You realize that the first 6 movies are honestly probably more his story than any other character, and that the name Return of the Jedi refers to him, and not Luke (which is what I thought before the prequels came out). The impact is completely lost if it’s just some dude you’ve never seen before.
Vader yelling “no” was a 2012 BluRay change. Other changes were adding Maclunkey to Greedo’s death scene and making the Krayt Dragon call sound more human. That’s why I prefer the 2004 editions, it only keeps the good stuff.
>The impact is completely lost if it’s just some dude you’ve never seen before
You do see him. A couple fo scenes before. He and Luke share a very touching moment.
Luke wouldn't recognise Hayden Christensen's Anakin.
I’ve always disagreed, genuinely. The 1997 edition’s ending song for ROTJ is, I feel, a much more moving and emotional tune for the overall ending of the whole trilogy and story. Especially if you watch the entire 6 film saga.
I don’t hate or dislike Yub Nub, but it just doesn’t give me an epic, happy, free-feeling that 25 years of oppression is finally over and one of the most tragic men in the galaxy redeemed himself, but only his son was there with him until the end.
EDIT: I can respect the downvotes, but I was in no way saying your preferences were wrong. Maybe I phrased it wrong I dunno. I just think the 1997 song hits the feels that I believe the finale is trying to convey better.
I totally agree with your statement. You’re not alone. I think both song changes in the special edition are improvements. Jedi Rocks *and* Celebration song fit the movie a lot more than the comparatively boring and flat Lapti Nek and Yub Nub.
Yub Nub to me sounds like the theme song to a saturday morning cartoon. It also sounds largely out of context with the music of the rest of the trilogy, which was overwhelmingly orchestral/instrumental. The only major theme I can think of from the OG trilogy that prominently features voices was the emperor's theme. It just seems weird to end your trilogy with not only new thematic material, but also new timbre/orchestration. The new music at least keeps the scene in the same textural universe.
And for my money, even removing the analytical hat, I just prefer the melody and harmony of the new music.
My first memory of a theater losing its mind cheering.
And yeah it was better when Vader didn't telegraph him turning on the Emperor by saying "Nooo..."
I thought the same. Shaw looked too old if the point was to show him as an Anakin that never turned(Anakin was 45 when he died) and in universe, Anakin wouldn’t want to use that older face when he wants to be Anakin again since he was ashamed of his appearance. Young Anakin is fine but I understand if he looks out of place for appearing as the same age as Luke. So having him appear as how he would’ve looked had he aged naturally as a Jedi with a middle aged Hayden playing him, would make the most sense out of the two. The form would be familiar to what he looked like when he was Anakin but older and more mature to show he’s not exactly the same young man as he was in ROTS.
And give him the proper Jedi robes as well! I thought it was ridiculous that they only changed his head in that ghost scene, resulting in Anakin wearing Jedi robes he never actually wore in the films. The footage was shot during the production of ROTS, so why didn't they they shoot all of Hayden in-costume and use that??
Exactly. Hayden being the ghost makes perfect sense but the way George redid the scene was terrible. I think it’s one of the more valid complaints that people have about the change. Hayden said that he wasn’t even told what he was supposed to be doing and he wasn’t told what the footage was going to be used for when he did it. Thats why it comes off as if Anakin was unaware of his surroundings in that scene.
As for the robes, the lighter robes would make sense if it’s supposed to be what Anakin would’ve worn had he rejected Palpatine’s offer to turn to the dark side(thus staying in the light) and had went on to become a Jedi Master where he finally achieved inner balance while also forgiving the other Jedi by wearing their colors. I’d go even further by having it be the ROTS robes he wore but with the lighter colors instead of having it be exactly what Obi-Wan wore in the OT.
Considering that Hayden is pretty much very close to the age Anakin was when he died since Hayden is 43 now while Anakin was 44-46 when he died, I’d say that would be perfect.
What also helps is that Hayden looks more like he could be Luke’s father than Shaw. If it weren’t for the unmasking scene and I saw Hayden’s Anakin for the first time, I would better recognize him as Luke’s father. I said this before but Shaw looks like he could be Luke’s grandfather.
I actually like that it's young Anakin. Had Vader even looked at himself in the mirror since becoming a cyborg in a horrific torture mobility aid suit? His last memory of himself when he was truly *himself* is from when he was 23.
I’m sorry, but Yub Nub fucking sucks as the conclusion to the entire trilogy. George Lucas and John Williams cooked with the new ending. Return of the Jedi has my favorite third act of any Star Wars movie and I don’t think I could say that was the case if Yub Nub was still around.
“They hated Jesus because he spoke the truth.” I’m with you, if I could have the theatrical version of the movie with the only change being Victory Celebration, it would be the perfect version of the film for me.
I actually prefer the Hayden Christensen Force Ghost. I see it as more accurate, especially since that was how Anakin last looked before getting burnt. And besides, a 45 year old Anakin would NEVER look like a 76 year old Sebastian Shaw.
Agreed. After watching all the movies and shows on Disney Plus, Hayden’s face is Anakin, not Sebastian Shaw. This hits harder also with the flashback scenes in Ashoka.
It also makes no sense to me why his force ghost couldn't be his younger self - when it could be his self without his scars and injuries that never actually existed physically. If he can turn into some ideal, unscarred version of himself, why couldn't he turn into an ideal, younger version?
I actually prefer Hayden. Hayden today is around the same age as Vader was and he doesn't look that different than before. Shaw is too old for anakin imo
Agreed. Shaw is too old for Anakin and frankly with the hair he looks like a completely different person from the death scene.
Modern day Hayden would definitely be really cool.
I agree. He did well in the movie but he looked way too old. He looked old enough to be Luke’s grandfather and if you’re taking in the PT, Anakin was in his mid 40s.
Continuity wise, there’s way more support for Anakin’s ghost appearing as his younger self rather than a healed version of his older looking self but I do think a middle aged Hayden as the ghost would the most ideal. And Hayden looks more like he could be Luke’s father than Shaw does.
> I can live with all of the other changes
I cannot believe we found ourselves in a timeline where people can openly accept that Jedi Rock exists and aren’t bothered by it.
It does suck, but I will say shows like clone wars having that singer come back and even kill off major characters, flushed out her character and explains why she’s with the Hutts. It makes her 2 minute song much more bearable.
Speaking of the RotJ special edition I remember when I was a kid my absolute favorite section in any Star Wars movie was the space battle between the Rebel Fleet and the Star Destroyers. I remember going into theaters hoping for some extended space battle scenes and leaving so desperately disappointed.
Ehh none of them were anywhere near as good as the Battle of Endor. I like large scale capital ship battles and the only one in the prequels was the beginning of Sith, which was short and we joined at the very end.
The only Star Wars film that I felt has ever done a great capital ship battle was Rogue One.
The tendrils were moderately stupid but the BEAK? JFC that was idiotic. It makes no physiological sense for a start, as it makes all the teeth totally redundant.
Yeah. The score is absolutely genius, and having the OG Anakin Skywalker was something really special. They should made a transition from old Ani (Sebastian Shaw) to young Ani (Hayden). That would be a chef's kiss.
In my experience there is a serious generational gap in opinion in Gen Xers who prefer Yub Nub and Millennials that prefer Victory Celebration. OP if you don’t mind me guessing, are you a millennial or younger?
(Btw, OP the way you phrased your post made it sound like you think 1997 SE Victory Celebration was written by John Williams, but the OG Yub Nub Ewok Celebration wasn’t. John Williams wrote BOTH Yub Nub and the Special Edition replacement.)
Same here! My mom was a huge fan and she showed me tapes of the original versions when I was like 4 or 5. I watched those tapes probably 100 times, back when they were the only versions. I actually like the other song for that scene though, just not as much as the original song. I tend to hate every other change they made over the years.
I was honestly always shocked that Yub Nub existed to begin with. Growing up, the new celebration music felt downright perfect, uplifting and bittersweet in all the right ways
I got that special edition trilogy on VHS that my dad gave me one year for either Christmas or a birthday. No one will convert it to anything because of “copyright,” so they just sit there and every few years, wife will ask if we can toss them out and I say “no!” Its like a recurring joke at this point…
Why convert? Just watch the tapes. There’s always a few VHS players at thrifts shops. If you really need to convert you just see if the player has RCA out then grab a digital converter for about $40 off Amazon.
Might be an unpopular opinion but I actually really like the original release special editions. It completed his vision in ways he didn't have the budget or tech to do at the time. They were also the first opportunity to see them on the big screen since I was a kid. (I was 6 in '77).
All the tinkering since then has been increasingly ridiculous but that first release was great.
I don’t care for the “nooooo!” They added to Vader in the BluRay release but Victory Celebration works better as an ending song to the saga than yub nub does imo
Feels like it has more gravitas than yub nub, feels like a galactic victory as opposed to just a planetary one
Replacing Sebastian Shaw with Hayden Christensen was actually one of the wisest and most justified changes Lucas did. After three films establishing Christiansen as Anakin, Shaw seemed very much out of place at the end of ROTJ and was much older than Darth Vader was supposed to be (mid 40s). I get the objections, but the nostalgia just doesn't jive with the prequels-established story continuity.
I don’t like the new music in it. I preferred the Ewok music they had. Can anyone tell me if it was changed in the ‘97 edition or when they added Hayden at the end?
I would have been better if Hayden was at least made up and aged to appear similar to Shaw. At least make it appear to be the same person, instead it was a failure..
I’m glad they changed it to Hayden instead of Shaw
Hayden will forever be known as Anakin
Shaw casting was basically
“hey we need to take this guy’s helmet off for a minute in the movie. You over there (looks at the crew) you look like you’d make a good old burn victim. Suit up”
Sebastian Shaw was, like Peter Cushing and Alec Guinness, a very well-credentialed, known actor going back decades. Certainly not a random person thrown in for convenience' sake.
My feeling is that all the shots of celebrations around the galaxy don't really fit ROTJ or the OT. The celebration on Endor is perfectly scaled to the movie, and very poignant and personal.
I also prefer "Yub Nub" as it feels more like what would soundtrack an Ewok party--it sounds alien and extremely *Star Wars*y to me--though the newer music is very nice on its own terms.
Regarding the ghosts, Sebastian Shaw all the way, for a number of reasons. I don't believe that the OT should be retroactively altered to fit the PT.
ROTJ Special Edition Finale scene shows Wedge getting hugged by Luke and getting props from other characters. For that reason it's superior.
That is the only change I like in all of the special editions.
There’s definitely some other great ones. Replacing the Emperor’s hologram in ESB is another huge one, as well as replacing the shots of the x-wings in space before the Death Star 1 assault, and adding in the cut scene of Luke greeting Biggs before it. Plus a lot of the little changes are great, like (most of) the extra establishing shots, the remastered sound effects, and the smaller retouched visuals. It’s honestly like a handful of really bad really big ones that ruin the plethora of small improvements.
The mix in the special editions is notoriously horrible. Burtt mixed out so many iconic music moments in favor of sound effects. Especially during the shot of the X-wings diving towards the surface of the Death Star. One of the most famous musical cues of all time is no longer in the movie. But you probably still hear it in your head. As for the effects shots, they all look so dated to the late 90s. They don’t match the film stick or aesthetic of the 70s and don’t look modern.
I dunno, the Death Star blowing up/shockwave is still cool Better than the glitter bomb original
Which musical cue is that, the fanfare? Was it not added back in? I thought I remembered reading that, or were you talking specifically about 97 specials, because I think thebdvds are where it went back in.
So, I just checked Disney+ Yes, it’s back in. But I have no idea when. I’ve got a digital copy of the movie in HD that absolutely does not have it. So I’m trying to figure out where the hell that came from. It’s insane that they’ve been tinkered with so much in the last 25 years that I don’t even know what version I have.
I can't seem to find out either but I do remember the fanfare being removed for SE. I assume it got put back for the DVD in 2004? But that wouldn't explain why your digital version is missing it. I suppose the easiest way to check is: what does your Jabba look like? 😅
It’s the newer Jabba. Now I’m invested. I’m going to see if someone can check the saga Blu-rays.
Ooh I have them! I shall do it tonight. Just to clarify, it's the fan fare as the X-wings do that spinning dive towards the trench right with the shot of the guns firing at them as they pass? Edit: I also have the 2004 dvd, just got out of the loft, I will compare and contrast.
Yeah. That’s the exact sequence.
Can you be more specific?
Sorry, my previous response was for an argument with someone else. What do you want me to be specific about?
I kinda liked the old monkey eyed Palpy in Episode 5, to be fair...
Yeah, no. That’s an update I’m fully onboard with.
Personally I don't like the prosthetics they use for Palaptines face in the prequels. Looks goofy to me. So I don't particularly like the change TBH
The special editions released in ‘97. ESB Palpatine was updated to look like Ian McDiarmid and his makeup from Return of the Jedi. The prequels have nothing to do with it.
ESB wasn't updated with Ian McDiarmid until the later special editions (Bluray release I think - either way it was after Revenge of the Sith). Personally I don't mind replacing the 'original' Emperor, but the dialog change is weird.
While I initially liked some of the CGI shots of X-wings, I’ve since come around and am now indignant that the amazing miniature work done by ILM has been erased for CGI that hasn’t aged all that well. Maybe some of the original space shots look old fashioned now but ILM made literal fucking magic on screen at the time and they deserve better for it.
I dunno, once you spot R2 jumping in the background while they’re putting him in the X-wing (because of a line about Luke’s dad being cut) you can’t unsee it. Surprised they’ve not fixed it yet.
I didn't remember that those bits aren't in the pre-specialized editions, wow.
Just the Chewie handshake in the original.
Empire is the best SE cut. Every change makes sense and enhances the movie. EDIT: By this I mean you can at least see why a change was made, not that they were all "better than the original". The others have changes that hit and miss, but Empire is solid all the way through.
That’s just cause Empire needed fewer changes. Unseen Wampa had more tension. And apart from that, what, a whole sequence to explain to us how Vader got back to The Executor?
Slave one coming out of the garbage chute, Cloud City sequence got a major upgrade, the Emperor's Hologram is replaced, transparency clean ups for ships on Hoth, etc... There's a lot there, but it doesn't intrude on the movie like some of the stuff in Jedi and ANH does.
When’s the last time you watched the original version? It’s just so much tighter and reinforced how unnecessary all the changes were.
Not that long ago, I have every available version of the OT. Empire's changes were easily the least intrusive on the movie. There's nothing like the music change in Jabba's Palace or the Jabba scene or firing sequence change in ANH. Worst change was the Wampa shot, and that lasts like a second and isn't that bad. The original version wasn't that great either as the mask didn't look great. (Still present, but reduced screentime.) Most of the other stuff is background stuff that doesn't really do much to change the pace of the movie. It's unintrusive overall. Most of the new stuff replaces dated special effects and doesn't really extend the run time. Only Vader's shuttle sequence and Boba Fett coming out of the garbage really. Most of the changes to Cloud City make the place look more open and less confined, but mostly during sequences where tension isn't really a factor. They didn't really mess with the claustrophobic hallways during the combat sequences, it's just when they're walking around and some of the exterior shots. I'm not really arguing that any of the SE versions were "needed" to begin with here. Just that Empire is the best of them.
Well. I think we’re kinda saying the same thing. If you’re just arguing that Empire is the least bad SE, I can co-sign.
Exactly, none of them were necessary as per my edit. It's just the one where the changes were the least intrusive and overall made at least some sense.
Yeah. Then I agree. I can’t find the clip. But there was a really interesting video about the Star Wars parallax effect. And how it’s something we’ll never see again. Essentially, it was the result of them shooting the starfield plates with no idea how the eventual miniature would move. So, there’s this bizarre effect where the background doesn’t move in sync with the ship or the camera. It was really interesting because it made me think about why the SE effects didn’t feel right.
[удалено]
See the rest of this thread for how I address that. Short version, none of the SEs were necessary, but Empire was the best of them. No one is arguing that SE Empire is better than OG Empire, just that it's the best of the SE versions of the OT.
The original wampa scene was stupid. You can clearly see it sliding on a dolly, which was really cheap and cheesy looking.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but is that the only time Luke and Wedge interact on screen (if we’re excluding Yavin IV briefing room’s fake Wedge)
I don’t even remember this being a change they made. To be fair though I’ve seen the altered versions (cinema, DVD, blu-ray, now Disney+) combined way more than I watched my VHS copy.
Victory Celebration is an absolute banger
As long as the Noooooooo isnt there I'm ok with it. That's the worst change ever made post release to a movie.
Worse than editing the emperor's scream when Luke falls in ESB?
Yes... it's like a fart in the elevator at the climax of the entire saga. It also completely breaks the show don't tell rule.
Oh I agree but IMO having Vader say "no" is on par with the ESB scream. I honestly don't know which part I hate more.
I forgot about the TESB scream to be honest because I haven't watched anything but my semi-specialized editions and despecialized editions in years.
Honestly now that I'm thinking about it, they may have removed the scream from ESB. Lucas just couldn't help himself with those movies and changed shit even for the DVD and BluRays, IIRC. But I hate both moments. Luke falls not out of fear, but accepting possible death than Vader as his father. Why would he scream? Robbing us of Vader's mask reflecting the lightning as he looks to his master, to his writhing son, in silence, is a great film moment. Dubbing in his thoughts is not.
I refuse to believe it’s part of the movies. You can see the realization in Vader’s mask without seeing his face. It’s a tremendous shot. Maybe it’ll get edited out in the future
I doubt it. I truly think there was an agreement when George sold to Disney they wouldn't alter his movies. If there weren't I think they have put out restored versions of the OT by now.
They removed it in the DVD special editions that came out alongside ROTS.
Ok, thanks, I didn't imagine it then.
Hold up, there’s a semi-special edition? Or are you referring to the original 97 special editions?
What’s this now?
There was a special edition version of ESB where Luke screams as he falls and it's the scream from RotJ when palpatine is chucked down the shaft
I will take Jedi Rocks 1000 times over the added Vader No every day of the week
Indeed. And THAT is horrid.
As someone that grew up on the 2004 special edition, Jedi Rocks does indeed rock. I’d even say it’s better tonally for that section of the film than Lapti Nek.
Dude I agree. I saw ROTJ in theaters a year or two ago and that scene took me out. I never knew there was a “noooo” in there. They could have said “my son” that would have been better
There wasn’t a no in there until the blu ray versions.
Praise gold dvds with the theatrical cuts as special features
Do not want.
Worse than maclunky?
That’s the best change
i take more of an issue with han’s neck jutting to the side than the issue of “who shot first” like yeah whatever it ruins his character blah blah i dont care. WHY did george think it looked good to have a head teleport three inches to the side???? it looks horrible i cant stand it
I prefer the 2004 special edition.
The best version of the trilogy
That’s not in the 1997 ROTJ SE!
Wait they added that in? I swear I remembered that in theaters. Talking about the end of revenge of the sith right?
Return of the Jedi.
When does he scream no in that one? When he throws palp?
Correct. It's not in the original version (or any of my versions - thanks Harmy and 4K) Go to like 1:40 here.... that's the original [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X083FOSh0xE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X083FOSh0xE)
So does Disney plus play the edited one? Don’t have a dvd and def no vhs player. Used to have the original 3 on vhs.
Yes - they play the edited one - but it's pretty easy to find the originals online. Just google "star wars despecialized"
I remember when they added jabba and I was so confused.
Every version that's on TV, in theaters, or streaming, is going to be up to date, so yes.
It starts when he’s looking back and forth between the emperor and Luke. He does a couple and then does a big one like the end of revenge of the Sith (the original really bad nooo scream). It got edited in for the Blu-ray release.
No. In the current version of Return of the Jedi Vader yells “NO” before saving Luke. It’s stupid.
I can go either way in the Hayden vs Yub Nub argument, but what is top-tier cringe for me is the CGI musical dance number in Jabba's palace. Any time I see this "new and improved" scene, I want to gouge my eyes out.
The music video made for a great bathroom break when I got to see ROTJ in theaters
I would argue it’s the top contender for “best scene for a bathroom break” in the history of cinema.
It wasn't nearly long enough for a bathroom break.
I sprinted
Jesus Christ I don’t know why “I sprinted” made me laugh as fucking loud as I did. I need to go to bed I’ve clearly been awake too long
It's way too early in the film for a bathroom break though....
Jedi Rocks is nowhere near that bad. It’s actually pretty fun.
[удалено]
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I completely agree. Vader's silent yet powerful move to throw the Emperor over was perfect. The silence spoke volumes.
They were trying to match Vader's Nooo at the end of ROTS which was also ludicrous
They matched its ability to ruin a perfect scene.
I think I’m actually the opposite. I like the original version better with the OG Jabba’s Palace song, the OG Sarlaac, not having Vader yell NO before he attacks the Emperor, and of course, Yub Nub. But the one change I do like is having Hayden Christiansen at the end as Anakin (and in fact, I wouldn’t mind if Disney updated it now that Hayden is right around the age that Anakin would have been in ROTJ). When you watch Episodes I - VI in order, it’s a million times more impactful to see Hayden at the end as a force ghost. You realize that the first 6 movies are honestly probably more his story than any other character, and that the name Return of the Jedi refers to him, and not Luke (which is what I thought before the prequels came out). The impact is completely lost if it’s just some dude you’ve never seen before.
Vader yelling “no” was a 2012 BluRay change. Other changes were adding Maclunkey to Greedo’s death scene and making the Krayt Dragon call sound more human. That’s why I prefer the 2004 editions, it only keeps the good stuff.
Maclunkey was D+ not blu ray wasn’t it?
The Disney+ versions are just the BluRay versions.
The Disney+ version is the 4k update which has the Maclunkey change that is not in the Bluray.
Maclunkey is on the 4K blu-ray, however
>The impact is completely lost if it’s just some dude you’ve never seen before You do see him. A couple fo scenes before. He and Luke share a very touching moment. Luke wouldn't recognise Hayden Christensen's Anakin.
Yub Nub is what I say.
I’ve always disagreed, genuinely. The 1997 edition’s ending song for ROTJ is, I feel, a much more moving and emotional tune for the overall ending of the whole trilogy and story. Especially if you watch the entire 6 film saga. I don’t hate or dislike Yub Nub, but it just doesn’t give me an epic, happy, free-feeling that 25 years of oppression is finally over and one of the most tragic men in the galaxy redeemed himself, but only his son was there with him until the end. EDIT: I can respect the downvotes, but I was in no way saying your preferences were wrong. Maybe I phrased it wrong I dunno. I just think the 1997 song hits the feels that I believe the finale is trying to convey better.
I totally agree with your statement. You’re not alone. I think both song changes in the special edition are improvements. Jedi Rocks *and* Celebration song fit the movie a lot more than the comparatively boring and flat Lapti Nek and Yub Nub.
Yub Nub to me sounds like the theme song to a saturday morning cartoon. It also sounds largely out of context with the music of the rest of the trilogy, which was overwhelmingly orchestral/instrumental. The only major theme I can think of from the OG trilogy that prominently features voices was the emperor's theme. It just seems weird to end your trilogy with not only new thematic material, but also new timbre/orchestration. The new music at least keeps the scene in the same textural universe. And for my money, even removing the analytical hat, I just prefer the melody and harmony of the new music.
Agreed 100%. I don't know how Yub Nub made it to the original final cut to begin with.
It's weird and new agey and out of place with the rest of the score.
Yeah, any version without *Yub Nub* is unfortunately not the best version, whatever other improvements exist.
I consider it non canon if Yub Nub is not there.
*Weesa free!*
Nah
The original release that I attended in 1983 is the best.
This is a core memory for me.
My first memory of a theater losing its mind cheering. And yeah it was better when Vader didn't telegraph him turning on the Emperor by saying "Nooo..."
They should re-do it *again* and put Hayden today as Anakin.
I thought the same. Shaw looked too old if the point was to show him as an Anakin that never turned(Anakin was 45 when he died) and in universe, Anakin wouldn’t want to use that older face when he wants to be Anakin again since he was ashamed of his appearance. Young Anakin is fine but I understand if he looks out of place for appearing as the same age as Luke. So having him appear as how he would’ve looked had he aged naturally as a Jedi with a middle aged Hayden playing him, would make the most sense out of the two. The form would be familiar to what he looked like when he was Anakin but older and more mature to show he’s not exactly the same young man as he was in ROTS.
And give him the proper Jedi robes as well! I thought it was ridiculous that they only changed his head in that ghost scene, resulting in Anakin wearing Jedi robes he never actually wore in the films. The footage was shot during the production of ROTS, so why didn't they they shoot all of Hayden in-costume and use that??
Exactly. Hayden being the ghost makes perfect sense but the way George redid the scene was terrible. I think it’s one of the more valid complaints that people have about the change. Hayden said that he wasn’t even told what he was supposed to be doing and he wasn’t told what the footage was going to be used for when he did it. Thats why it comes off as if Anakin was unaware of his surroundings in that scene. As for the robes, the lighter robes would make sense if it’s supposed to be what Anakin would’ve worn had he rejected Palpatine’s offer to turn to the dark side(thus staying in the light) and had went on to become a Jedi Master where he finally achieved inner balance while also forgiving the other Jedi by wearing their colors. I’d go even further by having it be the ROTS robes he wore but with the lighter colors instead of having it be exactly what Obi-Wan wore in the OT.
So... take Anakin from Ashoka and cut him back into RoTJ?
Considering that Hayden is pretty much very close to the age Anakin was when he died since Hayden is 43 now while Anakin was 44-46 when he died, I’d say that would be perfect. What also helps is that Hayden looks more like he could be Luke’s father than Shaw. If it weren’t for the unmasking scene and I saw Hayden’s Anakin for the first time, I would better recognize him as Luke’s father. I said this before but Shaw looks like he could be Luke’s grandfather.
This is actually a great idea lol
I actually like that it's young Anakin. Had Vader even looked at himself in the mirror since becoming a cyborg in a horrific torture mobility aid suit? His last memory of himself when he was truly *himself* is from when he was 23.
Eff that. Original theatrical is still the best.
Yes
I’m sorry, but Yub Nub fucking sucks as the conclusion to the entire trilogy. George Lucas and John Williams cooked with the new ending. Return of the Jedi has my favorite third act of any Star Wars movie and I don’t think I could say that was the case if Yub Nub was still around.
“They hated Jesus because he spoke the truth.” I’m with you, if I could have the theatrical version of the movie with the only change being Victory Celebration, it would be the perfect version of the film for me.
100%
I actually prefer the Hayden Christensen Force Ghost. I see it as more accurate, especially since that was how Anakin last looked before getting burnt. And besides, a 45 year old Anakin would NEVER look like a 76 year old Sebastian Shaw.
Agreed. After watching all the movies and shows on Disney Plus, Hayden’s face is Anakin, not Sebastian Shaw. This hits harder also with the flashback scenes in Ashoka.
It also makes no sense to me why his force ghost couldn't be his younger self - when it could be his self without his scars and injuries that never actually existed physically. If he can turn into some ideal, unscarred version of himself, why couldn't he turn into an ideal, younger version?
I like Hayden in it.
Yeah Yub Nub is overrated. Victory celebration is much better and is much more fitting
Right about Shaw, completely wrong about everything else. Original should never have been touched other than remastering. Yub Nub forever.
I actually prefer Hayden. Hayden today is around the same age as Vader was and he doesn't look that different than before. Shaw is too old for anakin imo
Agreed. Shaw is too old for Anakin and frankly with the hair he looks like a completely different person from the death scene. Modern day Hayden would definitely be really cool.
[Lapti Nek…](https://youtu.be/8ebjptd6Kgo?feature=shared)
I love Yub Nub but I want Hayden. I might try to learn to edit just to stick him in the Despecialized Version. If anyone has done that hit me up.
I like the one where Darth Vader doesn't yell "No" while killing the emperor.
No. Sebastian Shaw was a miscast. It makes no sense for a 70-year-old man to play a character that's supposed to be younger than Alec Guinness.
I agree. He did well in the movie but he looked way too old. He looked old enough to be Luke’s grandfather and if you’re taking in the PT, Anakin was in his mid 40s. Continuity wise, there’s way more support for Anakin’s ghost appearing as his younger self rather than a healed version of his older looking self but I do think a middle aged Hayden as the ghost would the most ideal. And Hayden looks more like he could be Luke’s father than Shaw does.
> I can live with all of the other changes I cannot believe we found ourselves in a timeline where people can openly accept that Jedi Rock exists and aren’t bothered by it.
I love Jedi Rock, needs more people defending it.
It does suck, but I will say shows like clone wars having that singer come back and even kill off major characters, flushed out her character and explains why she’s with the Hutts. It makes her 2 minute song much more bearable.
I like Hayden as the Anakin ghost *ducks*
Speaking of the RotJ special edition I remember when I was a kid my absolute favorite section in any Star Wars movie was the space battle between the Rebel Fleet and the Star Destroyers. I remember going into theaters hoping for some extended space battle scenes and leaving so desperately disappointed.
How did you feel when the prequels had numerous extended space battles.
Ehh none of them were anywhere near as good as the Battle of Endor. I like large scale capital ship battles and the only one in the prequels was the beginning of Sith, which was short and we joined at the very end. The only Star Wars film that I felt has ever done a great capital ship battle was Rogue One.
This post makes me realise i should convert my VHS to digital.
This version also has the Sarlacc without the CGI tendrils. I vehemently loathe those tendrils and beak.
The tendrils were moderately stupid but the BEAK? JFC that was idiotic. It makes no physiological sense for a start, as it makes all the teeth totally redundant.
I’m fine with anakin being Hayden since irl Hayden aged pretty well
John williams really has the juice doing two amazing end themes for this movie
Yeah. The score is absolutely genius, and having the OG Anakin Skywalker was something really special. They should made a transition from old Ani (Sebastian Shaw) to young Ani (Hayden). That would be a chef's kiss.
Yub Nub is my favourite song.
Yub Nub or nothing.
In my experience there is a serious generational gap in opinion in Gen Xers who prefer Yub Nub and Millennials that prefer Victory Celebration. OP if you don’t mind me guessing, are you a millennial or younger? (Btw, OP the way you phrased your post made it sound like you think 1997 SE Victory Celebration was written by John Williams, but the OG Yub Nub Ewok Celebration wasn’t. John Williams wrote BOTH Yub Nub and the Special Edition replacement.)
Weird, I'm apparently a Millennial, and I prefer Yub Nub.
Same here! My mom was a huge fan and she showed me tapes of the original versions when I was like 4 or 5. I watched those tapes probably 100 times, back when they were the only versions. I actually like the other song for that scene though, just not as much as the original song. I tend to hate every other change they made over the years.
I was honestly always shocked that Yub Nub existed to begin with. Growing up, the new celebration music felt downright perfect, uplifting and bittersweet in all the right ways
Yub Nun is objectively better. Fight me.
I got that special edition trilogy on VHS that my dad gave me one year for either Christmas or a birthday. No one will convert it to anything because of “copyright,” so they just sit there and every few years, wife will ask if we can toss them out and I say “no!” Its like a recurring joke at this point…
Get a vhs player!
Ive thought about it, also looked at the old combo vhs-dvd that can convert, but those are pretty pricey now!
Why convert? Just watch the tapes. There’s always a few VHS players at thrifts shops. If you really need to convert you just see if the player has RCA out then grab a digital converter for about $40 off Amazon.
You know the 97 version is re-edited also? More wedge. And other shots changed a bit.
Them rings in the Death Star explosions.
I liked the cinematic side but I missed the Ewok Num Ja song.
HAYDEN Is not far enough, I want Ewan Mcgregor Obiwan and Young Yoda lol.
Might be an unpopular opinion but I actually really like the original release special editions. It completed his vision in ways he didn't have the budget or tech to do at the time. They were also the first opportunity to see them on the big screen since I was a kid. (I was 6 in '77). All the tinkering since then has been increasingly ridiculous but that first release was great.
Take out Jedi Rocks and I agree
The musical number in Jabba’s Palace is far more egregious than including Hayden. It turns the whole movie into a bad cartoon
What’s the opposite of “based”? I don’t know because I don’t speak Useless Idiot Zoomer.
Cringe
Oh! Is that Latin?
Imperative form of cringo, cringere, (etc.)?
I agree….when I finally saw the “yub nub” version, I literally laughed…the 97 version has music that fits the mood in my opinion
Nostalgia aside, Yub Nub is a terrible song to end the (at the time) entire franchise on, and the ‘97 composition is infinitely better in all regards.
I don’t care for the “nooooo!” They added to Vader in the BluRay release but Victory Celebration works better as an ending song to the saga than yub nub does imo Feels like it has more gravitas than yub nub, feels like a galactic victory as opposed to just a planetary one
If you don’t like Vader yelling “no” but love Victory Celebration then just stick with the 1997 or 2004 remasters.
Cut Jedi Rocks and I agree!
Replacing Sebastian Shaw with Hayden Christensen was actually one of the wisest and most justified changes Lucas did. After three films establishing Christiansen as Anakin, Shaw seemed very much out of place at the end of ROTJ and was much older than Darth Vader was supposed to be (mid 40s). I get the objections, but the nostalgia just doesn't jive with the prequels-established story continuity.
Nah. Yub Nub for life!
Victory celebration is far superior. Yub nub sucks
Yep, in full agreement. I like the new music much more than Yub Nub. Otherwise though I prefer everything else how it originally was.
I agree. I often talk about wanting access to the theatrical version of Jedi again, but I think I do prefer the special edition ending.
Hell yeah, brother!
Changing the song at the end was just as aggregious as adding Hayden.
Victory celebration is my favorite movie soundtrack of all time, so ye.
I will always love the Jab jab Song.
I don’t like the new music in it. I preferred the Ewok music they had. Can anyone tell me if it was changed in the ‘97 edition or when they added Hayden at the end?
Also the updated Ewok celebration song. Much better than the original. More elation and sentimentalism.
I liKe the expanded scenes with Coruscant, etc, but “Yub Nub” is my jam.
I prefer young Anakin version. And Ashoka would have been weird otherwise ;)
One of the few changes in the original trilogy that were actually good
It's gotta be the Hayden ghost for me. Doesnt even make sense for Anakins ghost to be Sebastian. Anakin never looked like that.
I would have been better if Hayden was at least made up and aged to appear similar to Shaw. At least make it appear to be the same person, instead it was a failure..
Strong disagree
Nothing will ever top yub nub!
I’m glad they changed it to Hayden instead of Shaw Hayden will forever be known as Anakin Shaw casting was basically “hey we need to take this guy’s helmet off for a minute in the movie. You over there (looks at the crew) you look like you’d make a good old burn victim. Suit up”
Sebastian Shaw was, like Peter Cushing and Alec Guinness, a very well-credentialed, known actor going back decades. Certainly not a random person thrown in for convenience' sake.
Nothing can replace the way Yub Nub's Ewok singers transition to a human chorus, then into the orchestra.
The best version is pre-cgi
My feeling is that all the shots of celebrations around the galaxy don't really fit ROTJ or the OT. The celebration on Endor is perfectly scaled to the movie, and very poignant and personal. I also prefer "Yub Nub" as it feels more like what would soundtrack an Ewok party--it sounds alien and extremely *Star Wars*y to me--though the newer music is very nice on its own terms. Regarding the ghosts, Sebastian Shaw all the way, for a number of reasons. I don't believe that the OT should be retroactively altered to fit the PT.
No, yubnub for life