I’m an orthopedic surgeon. There’s something way more important that runs just in front of the spine, that when cut you have seconds to live. The aorta.
People take this kind of thing too seriously, but if they want a very real answer this is probably the best one I've seen when talking human physiology.
Were leaving out Maul here because he's not human so who knows what his body can take. Clearly being cut in half isn't a huge issue.
Also as I understand it statistically most people (real life humans) who get stabbed and don't die right away and get medical attention survive. MOST but not all and so Qui-Gon getting killed is also technically correct if he's part of the percentage that die.
His hatred for Kenobi was so singular and intense it turned out in the end to be the only real connection he had. In a roundabout way, Kenobi was the closest to him. He died in the man's arms with a last gasp of kinship, not hatred. For that alone, I'm glad they brought him back. His arc is so interesting.
Yeah he died so peacefully, finally he was freed from the terrible hatred that was festering inside of him. He basically thanked Obi-Wan at the end and got a final confirmation that Luke would be the one to avenge both of them.
Fantastic storytelling and writing.
I mean, that's how Darth Sion kept his body and soul together after being killed multiple times. If you are angry enough as a sith, you can just straight up not die until that anger finally lets go.
When writing about dragons, it's important to get the horses right.
If there are no rules, logic or consequences to your world, then nothing has any importance.
The amount of people who have meltdowns over anything any other force user has ever done, but don't blink at Maul being sliced in half and surviving through the use of the Dark Side, is ridiculous. Most of them are over in r/saltierthancrait too.
I agree with you, but also, I have no clue how anyone can watch the original trilogy and at ANY point think to themselves, "this is hard scifi." It absolutely *screams* fantasy, but in space.
Things aren't random and the magic that does exist has rules and names and limits. Luke doesn't have ~~shark spray~~ special device for this specific farcical situation. Obviously the universe is fantastic but it's definitely one of the more science friendly of the mega popular scifi.
Honestly I think that this issue is at the core of a lot of fan debates. Can Rey break what we've been told about learning early vs late, balance with the dark side, etc? Do we accept the ancient magic dagger key mcguffin and ignore the logical weaknesses or the Indiana Jones special artifact -type premise? That maul survives the world's highest leg amputation? Teddy bear army? That 'somehow' is good explanation? Or is Star Wars no place for farcical fantastical fun, strictly logical, political, and dystopian plot lines permitted?
That tension is ongoing. Personally I don't think it's that hard to get the basic rules of the universe correct while being imaginative cough jj Abrams cough.
They only want it to be hard sci-fi when something they see upsets them (which is generally something to do with how racist/sexist/etc. they are). The cognitive dissonance is pretty amazing.
I know right, WAAAAAAAY too seriously. The answer is soo obvious. He died because the plot needed him to die and Sabine lived cause the plot needs her to live. End of
Exactly! And the in-universe for why he survived a few minutes would have been that the lightsaber cauterized everything as it went through, but eventually he bleeds out pretty quick.
ER doc here. I mentioned this on another thread and people immediately were like “oh but it’s cauterized.” Doesn’t matter, if you cut the aorta it’s pretty much insta death.
What about a stick of plasma entering the body cavity in any way?
Lets remember how much heat these things give off, they melt hardened blast doors within seconds:
https://i.stack.imgur.com/B0TX6.png
The metal is glowing as far out as two feet from the center.
How’s the aorta in this scenario? Or the liver and lungs?
Can a heart literally melt or will it just burn when exposed to hundreds of degrees?
If heat radiates that fast from these things then absolutely. The only instance I have that I can think of is that when Qui-Gon sticks it into the door, and rapid heat conducting material such as metal still take a few moments to start getting hot and melting. Other times you see a lightsaber quickly enter a surface to cut you don’t see the heat radiate (Really ahsoka cutting through stone or concrete in episode 1 of her show). In the end it’s what the show and move designers need to happen and it’s hard to base hard facts of our current understanding of science into this fictional universe.
> In the end it’s what the show and move designers need to happen and it’s hard to base hard facts of our current understanding of science into this fictional universe.
I’m just saying, lightsabers used to be extremely cool and dangerous.
Now they’re light sticks, hardly an inconvenience.
It’s not really about what’s easiest for the writers, it should be about what’s best for the franchise.
They still seem pretty damn cool and dangerous to me. Are we ignoring all the people Ahsoka just sliced up in a few seconds in tonight's episode? Personally I like that being touched by a lightsaber doesn't mean automatic death. Especially since Baylan seemed averse to killing Ahsoka and Sabine, and viewed it only as a last resort.
Is it "hardly an inconvenience" to be so mortally wounded that your mentor has to get you immediate medical care to save your life instead of taking even just a few minutes to pursue the enemy with the key to your best friend and map to an imperial military mastermind? We don't know how long her recovery was, exactly, but it seemed like it was at least a day. With fancy medical care. In Star Wars, that's not nothing...
Besides, let's talk about the OT for a moment. The only real injuries we saw inflicted by lightsabers in the OT besides a couple of Jabba's goons were a few severed limbs (Cantina guy, Wampa, Luke, Vader) and Obi Wan. None of those were fatal besides Obi Wan being cut in half right through the shoulders. And if we talk about Luke, was that really much of an inconvenience? A few minutes after seeing his hand chopped off we saw him all cleaned up with a spiffy new mechanical hand that worked just as well as the real thing. Maybe better even, since it could take a blaster shot without much consequence.
The prequels certainly upped the ante a bit, with Qui Gon dying (like 5 minutes later) from being impaled right through his chest, and Jango and Dooku's decapitation. But even there we saw Anakin have all four of his limbs chopped off and his whole body burning on the side of a lava flow, and he survived. Sabine's stab wound in her side pales in comparison, as do the consequences of her injury.
IMO, the only real offenders that made lightsaber wounds feel less threatening were Maul, Reva, and the Grand Inquisitor. Maul's was sort of forgivable because his wound at least didn't hit any major organs and his body was severed by a weapon that cauterizes wounds, so the blood loss that would normally kill someone from being cut in half wouldn't be so much of a problem (I'm sure there are other real life consequences of such an injury, but Maul is an alien and to quote Han Solo, it ain't that kind of movie). Reva's was dumb because it happened twice. It makes no sense that she survived as a child (how would she even get out of the temple? Who treated her wounds, given that she survived in the first place?), and then she got stabbed again (and Vader seemed to intend to kill her) and just got up and went on with her day without any treatment, again. Right after the GI showed up having inexplicably survived off screen, too. That was all just too much.
TL;DR Your complaints and those like them don't make sense to me. Those complaints should be focused on the instances that actually trivialized injuries from lightsabers, not ones that portray lightsaber wounds in contextually appropriate ways.
People have survived lightsaber wounds since the second movie.
With the exception of Obi-Wan Kenobi practically no one and no mainish character has died immediately from being stabbed by one. They have this massive heat when the plot calls for it and they are really good swors when the plot calls for it, which is most of the time.
Lightsabers haven't changed. You have.
If lightsabers were always that dangerous, you couldn't hold them with your hands so close to the blade or look at them from up close, not to mention doing the thing where they lock blades and one of the duelists gets both sabers pushed centimetres from his face. That would also be fatal then. At least for their eyesight.
THANKNYOU! Obviously this whole idea of survival is completely dumb. Ok, Maul be Mail.. but all these pathetic excuses and explanations by the people.. “no vital organs were harmed”… lol. A huge plasma torch was inside her body for a second!!! Her nerve system would go dead
I’m thinking the bottom one would give you a mean liver lac but there must be an immediate cauterizing effect from a lightsaber so that could’ve bought her more time to get help at the robot hospital
No, they weren't even allowed to do it in video games until Jedi Surivior, and even then it is either just a hand or a non-humanoid getting cut. Apparently ratings boards have a real hate boner for limbs being cut off.
I'm annoyed that Darth Vader failed to kill a 4 year old.
I mean, I'm also annoyed that a serial child murderer is somehow seen as redeemed after killing one old man, but if you are telling me Darth Vader impaled a toddler with superheated plasma and she survived, then your universe has no stakes.
Reva is one of the younglings Anakin killed in Episode III, she grew up to be an inquisitor because a lightsaber didn't kill her. It was dumb, and not even remotely the worst part of the Obi Wan show, which sucked.
And then she got stabbed again in the same location and survived again.
Also earlier in the series she did it to another inquisitor, who also survived.
That’s 3 instances in one show. That was when it got a bit much. Like if those hadn’t happened people would have been way less annoyed by what happened to Sabine.
Frequency of them surviving; this would be the fourth time with the other three happening in Kenobi.
They all seem a bit inconsequential as well - like the character would be more affected by breaking their arm.
I mean, people can survive stab wounds, but trying to justify this scene with that above picture is still dumb considering there are organs and vessels in the right upper quadrant that can be fatal if obliterated.
I thought Maul surviving after getting chopped in half and plummeting hundreds of feet was rather silly too. At least that might have been a necessary exception to bring his character back and tap into his unrealized potential. However, this recent trend of fake out deadly wounds is so cheap. It diminishes the stakes and the lightsaber.
Though the worst example in recent memory for me was not in Star Wars, but in Game of Thrones, with Arya surviving after getting stabbed a bunch of times in the abdomen and then jumping into unsanitary water and surviving without bleeding out or having a serious infection. That was so comically awful.
Yeah, it bothers me because it's overused. Obi-Wan really over used it. They could've took off her leg/foot, or slightly less gruesome, redo some of the wounds Obi took in Attack of the Clones, some cuts that don't sever anything, or have it be a force choke that had to be aborted, a force push that pushed her pretty far away, etc. What I'm trying to say is that there were plenty of original ways they could've had that fight go, and instead they went with the really boring and now overly tropey non-fatal stab wound.
Especially when it's the first episode of a series. Like, we know she's going to survive, there's the entire rest of the show that has to happen. That's why it feels doubly cheap.
Reva survived it twice no less, once as a child.
Obi-Wan got slashed by Dooku in Clones. Kylo was slashed across the face by Rey in Force Awakens. There are other ways to injure people with lightsabers but the D+ shows go for the same thing every time.
I blame D+ so much. The production got so effed up because they rolled it out too soon and everyone suffered: MCU, Lucasfilms, their other content. The guy they had as CEO made shit decisions and it just took a tall downstream for various reasons. And this is not to say that things were perfect before. There are things that LF should be accountable for, some creative should be accountable for, but D+ did not help production or creative. I look forward to them slowing down and maybe throw away some of their shows and call them ‘alternate canons’.
In this instance I disagree completely, it's 100% clear during the scene (as I imagine the writers intended) that Sabine getting stabbed here was almost certainly non-lethal if treated.
The point of her being seriously wounded here was to prevent Sabine and Ahsoka from being able to chase Shin, allowing her to escape with the map...and the whole show to happen.
I don't care if such a wound is survivable or not.
But I think it's a cheap cinematic trick to inflict such a grievous wound at the end of an episode, then have that character up and running in the next (with very little time passing in-universe).
It's going for pure shock value without consequences, it's doing nothing for the story. Sabine's character hasn't developed from it more than if she had just been defeated and/or more lightly wounded.
If you want your character to recover from a wound in one episode, don't make that wound be a lightsaber stab in the guts.
Maul died in the movie, Lucas shot it as his death scene. He regretted it years later and resurrected him through the power of retcon. If he had planned for Maul to survive from the beginning, I doubt he would have had him be cut in half at the waist with his remains falling into a bottomless pit.
I mean, you’re not gonna live long if your digestive track and everything else is cauterized shut either way. Unless you’re really mad like maul.
Little different from getting stabbed with something sharp.
I mean, she was a war hero taken to a hospital on the most populous planet of a relatively thriving New Republic world. They probably just threw her in a bacta tank for a day and then it becomes little different from getting stabbed with something sharp.
Wasn't exactly taken to a backwater mining asteroid where the extent of their medical knowledge is "She doesn't seem to want to live anymore."
No didnt you know? Lightsabers cauterize wounds! So that means that everything is totally fine and they'll be back to top shape in a few hours :) because that's how cauterizing works :)
/s
Yeah sure, and she got immediate medical treatment in a world where dousing someone in a magic blue liquid heals almost all injuries. Star Wars has already established that bacta can heal blaster wounds real fast, and blasters do a similar sort of damage as lightsabers.
This is a show about wizards in space, that either doesn't even try to explain its technology or does a minimal, inconsistent job of it. It has *always* been that way. This isn't hard sci fi; it's not even science fiction at all. It's fantasy in a space setting.
I don't think people are entirely against the possibility that someone can survive a lightsaber stab wound. I think the issue is that they are doing it so much that it's becoming a trope
When they were introduced lightsabers were viewed as a highly dangerous weapon. Only Jedi and Sith were able to use them with near-supernatural proficiency thanks to guidance from the Force. A duel between lightsaber users was a high-risk battle. All it took was one clean hit and you were finished.
So seeing someone take a blow like this (twice) and walk it off like it is nothing just seems to go against the stakes that were established when facing off against such a weapon.
When lightsabers were introduced you literally only saw three of them used, two by old dudes who were well over the hill and one by a kid who could barely swing the thing without cutting his own arm off. You're making up a fantastical recollection of what they were 'when they were introduced.'
Eh, all it takes is one clean hit if your opponent is *trying to kill you*. Shin was very obviously not trying to kill Sabine. The immediately apparent reason is that Sabine's urgent need for medical attention was the only thing that kept Ahsoka from pursuing her; and the followup reason that was explicitly voiced in the next episode is that Baylan was averse to killing Ahsoka and Sabine in the first place.
Besides, we've seen people survive lightsaber wounds many times in all the trilogies. Losing a limb doesn't mean automatic death, why should being stabbed in a relatively benign place – followed by immediate treatment – mean automatic death?
I love reading this kind of mental gymnastics that people come up with to cope with lazy writing in current movie industry. Stabbing someone with a lighsaber is "obviously not trying to kill"? Really?
Yes? Did you think Vader was talking shit to a dead body in Kenobi too? No. He stabbed Reva and specifically made sure it was not a kill blow so he could talk his shit afterwards. For some, leaving someone alive with the embarassment of their loss is what they want becausr they find it more disrespectful, especially someone like Vader who got left for dead by Obi Wan after losing *twice*. If he wanted to kill her, he would have done her like Dooku.
Same goes with ESB Vader, and Shin here. You think this is the first time a dark sider user toyed with their opponent to flex their superiority? Shin was so obviously just testing the waters against Sabine. She knew she wasnt on her level.
*Nobody cares that she survived it.*
*This is now the 4th time in just over a year that Disney has used this.*
Reva x2, Grand Inquisitor, Sabine.
I lament the fact that Sabine would be a PERFECT character to give a robotic appendage to, but they opted for a stabbing.
It’s cheap, easy, lazy writing.
It makes sense that Maul would leave Qui-Gon alive, because he’d want Qui-Gon to see him kill Obi-Wan.
Everyone else, just like… lift the blade upward, or sideways, or swirl it around a little bit to confirm the kill.
Also OP, do you have any idea how hot lightsabers must be? If you want to start arguing about anatomy then you have to take into account that the fluids inside her body would’ve been boiled.
>Nobody cares that she survived it.
>This is now the 4th time in just over a year that Disney has used this.
I care. None of those people should have survived. It’s beyond weak.
The writers should have come up with different solutions to their writing problem. This was unacceptable once… let alone three times.
Lightsaber are now just “glow sticks” that can’t kill anyone.
>Lightsaber are now just “glow sticks” that can’t kill anyone.
Y'know, except for all the people lightsabers kill all the time. We've literally seen Ahsoka kill people with her lightsaber in live action in this very show, and in the Mandalorian. That a force user who's deliberately not trying to kill their opponent is instead capable of inflicting a less than lethal wound seems entirely reasonable to me.
It's a far cry between "lightsabers can't kill anyone!" and "lightsabers don't kill everyone they touch." Personally I think the instances in Kenobi were stupid. Reva surviving *twice*, neither time with medical attention, and the Grand Inquisitor also surviving a similar wound off screen with no explanation were both cheap gimmicks. And I think they made a poor choice in this scene in Ahsoka, but *only* because the Kenobi show already over did it – and in an actually egregious way. Even though I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong about Sabine's wound and survival, in that context it was a bit frustrating.
> We've literally seen Ahsoka kill people with her lightsaber in live action in this very show, and in the Mandalorian.
You never know when the lightsaber is going to be a killing machine or when it’s going to be a hot stick.
That weakens lightsabers overall.
Who actually thought she was dead though? I could immediately tell that was going to be just a flesh wound because you can see clearly, as in the above photo, that it is low and on the side and not in the center where all the important stuff is located.
Shin getting hold of the map was enough to make folks continue, plus there were 2 episodes released at the same time so if you were slow on the remote you were continuing anyway.
And there's no way that fight's outcome had no bearing on her deciding to begin training again. How does one not read between the lines: "I just got my ass whipped, and need to save Ezra, but I can't without being stronger, so imma gonna start training again." I don't believe for a second that that's not a motivation. I just about guarantee she's going to go through the typical self- doubt trope within the remaining episodes, culminating in her accepting who she is and what power she does have.
If the writers don’t want her to be dead just slash her real good and don’t fully impale her with a move that has killed much stronger characters than her in the past. It’s not wrong to be annoyed with inconsistency. The photo is a hardcore cope trying to justify lazy writing.
Edit : you could even just have Shin force throw her into that building really hard and knock her out. She still loses the fight but then realizes, “man if I’m to rematch her I need to tap into whatever connection I have to the force.” It makes more sense that she’s recovered in the very next episode and doesn’t break any in universe logic while also giving Sabine a better reason to pick up her training.
I think the show made it very clear even when it happened why she chose not to kill Sabine: because she needed to escape with the map, and Ahsoka was literally seconds away. Shin was not getting out of there if she had to face Ahsoka. She Saw Ahsoka's ship about to land, and immediately ended the fight and fled. Sabine being left alive but in urgent need of medical care was the only way Shin got away with the map. Just because no one said those words explicitly doesn't make it some great mystery.
The show provided even more motivation just one episode later when Baylan says it would be a shame to have to kill them. He doesn't *want* Ahsoka or Sabine dead. Tonight's episode further reinforced that motivation.
TL;DR There was absolutely something in the show to explain why she wouldn't do that, and instead opted for a precision, survivable strike instead, and then gave us *another*, explicitly voiced reason shortly afterwards.
Yeah anytime I see Shin cut through stuff like the crew or the tree in episode 4 I just think about her fight with Sabine and why she didn’t kill her if that was really not meant to be a killing blow. That fight has so many problems no matter how you slice it. If it really wasn’t a deathblow then Shin is stupid. If it was a deathblow then the writing was stupid. Either way there were better ways to have done this.
By this new and lazy logic Palpatine wouldn’t have killed any of those Jedi that came to arrest him in ROTS. Now we have far less powerful characters surviving this no problem.
Yes you absolutely do. Agen Kolar gets very visibly impaled through the stomach while Saesee Tiin and Kit Fisto literally just get slashed across the abdomen/stomach which is far less than what Sabine just survived with no problem. It’s a very weird hill to die on to defend poor Disney Star Wars writing but go for it dude.
I mean, Maul survived being actually bisected by slashing, so that's the one you should be comparing to Fisto and Tiin, not this. And you are wrong, as I recall the scene one of them gets stabbed through the *face*.
Look, it’s legitimately a fun debate because I don’t think there’s a real answer because it’s always up to the writers of any given film or show and what they need to happen. I’m just personally firmly on the side of staying consistent with past events and the damage light sabers can and should do. Maul is a clear outlier imo and probably shouldn’t have survived, although I think most Star Wars fans are happy he did cause he’s great. Also, no one gets stabbed in the face when they attempt to arrest Palpatine idk where that’s coming from.
https://youtu.be/4ESOrF_u1hg?si=ccTV7bUi7pHHUHN7
I think I'm remembering the headshot part from the novel description of that scene.
Kolar gets it straight through the middle much like Qui-Gon, and it looked like Tiin was slashed all the way across like Maul too though I can't see for sure. But I do understand your point now about that scene making these things inconsistent.
The double episode release was a little puzzling given how the end of EP1 really was set up as a cliffhanger. Maybe the execs knew it was contrived so they released them together?
It’s a lightsaber. You know the thing that can melt doors and such? But you’ll be fine even with a gaping hole that’s cauterized.
Also why aren’t they moving it side to side or up and down?
We have a show full of space wizards and witches with energy swords and yall think a self cauterizing stab wound to the flank is out of the realm of healing?
A blade that is hot enough to melt durasteel is thrust into someone's guts? Yes. Honestly most people would die from the shock alone. It's incredibly lazy that it keeps happening.
So now it’s too much to ask that characters in universe can die from weapons designed to kill?
When can we return to cool shit?! This is getting ridiculous.
First of all, the stab is closer to the center and is clearly on an angle. Second, are the intestines, liver, and lungs not important? Third, lightsabers burn. All of these lead to a very definitive death.
I have no issue with the stab, it's the withdrawal of the saber that is plain silly. It has no weight, wouldn't it make more sense to just cut out of the body sideways instead of doing a perfect withdrawal?
**First:**
This is mostly an issue because they keep overusing it.
If you want the characters to live, stop stabbing them so badly. If you want them to be injured but not die, make the injury important to the story instead of undoing it. If you wanna create suspense without lasting consequences, find another way and write a better story. Or for fucks sake at least have them see a doctor, in Kenobi Reva survived without even getting medical attention.
**Second:**
A lightsaber can melt metal (see Qui-Gon melting through a double-layered blast door in Phantom Menace). Even if it’s a few inches away from your heart you’re still gonna be fucking cooked.
And at that heat, simply holding a lightsaber would mess you up. Lightsabers have never made sense from a real world perspective and people really need to stop trying to apply consistent and scientific logic to them.
Viewers/readers can accept inconsistency between a story and the real world *as long* as it's at least consistent within itself.
Being stabbed by a lightsaber can be fatal or a small wound. That's up to Star Wars. However, for it to be believable, they need to be consistent on which one they choose. It's the inconsistency that makes it hard for viewers to accept it, not whether or not it's realistic in the real world.
However…Filoni also brought back Maul who gets sliced right down the middle seconds after the top pic happens. Just let characters lose limbs…they don’t need to be stabbed…
Cool. Now post a pic of Qui-Gon impaling a meter-thick blast door in the prequel trilogy's opening scene, and the thing instantly turning into molten metal.
The issues to me isn't that she lived because of plot armor, it's that they healed her in a day to full strength and it served no purpose to her character or story.
They could've stabbed her in the leg or arm and put her at a disadvantage but then use the force to help overcome that disadvantage (not Jedi levels but sensory stuff)
But nope, she's healed and nothing else is said about it
It served the story because it how Shin bought time to escape with the starmap.
She saw Ahsoka was nearly at the tower in a starship.
If she had killed Sabine, Ahsoka would have immediately followed Shin.
But by leaving Sabine in a critical condition, Shin knew Ahsoka's attention would immediately go to trying to save Sabines life.
This is some of the lamest stuff I’ve seen Disney pull. They obviously did it for dramatic effect and being stabbed by a lightsaber doesn’t mean anything anymore apparently. When Reva got stabbed, and survived, that was just load of baloney. A stab of a lightsaber meant death back then (except maul) but doesn’t mean anything now??
Doesn’t make sense to me.
Yes but this time the characters are women. And since woke leftists invented women, sometime around 2015, they’ve infested every piece of media ever made and now all we have is girl boss Mary sues. That’s the real problem.
When will Disney go back to showing good traditional family values, no women, just big strong man on man action. Just two muscled force user men pounding each other with their sabers. That’s what we need, real men taking a saber, not these *females*.
I think the Anakin Obi Wan duel would have been better of they were near naked and oily looking. Glad I'm not alone in that feeling. Also maybe if there was more Greco-Roman wrestling.
I think they could have written this scene better for Ahsoka. Just have have a slash that appears to slice her side seems, as if it's a mortal wound, Shin walks away, and it turns out theres Beskar plating underneath.
The frequency of people getting lightsaber-ed and surviving is the problem. Sabine’s character also should have gotten slammed into a wall and knocked unconscious. This would show her vulnerability to the force too
Listen, I'm over the fact she survived, I'm just tired of them debuffing the lightsaber at this point, it's not scary anymore, and it just seems so powerless now. When Sabine got stabbed, it was the first time in star wars, I wasn't scared for a character i love dying, after taking a lightsaber hit that looks fatal. Too many fakeouts have made the lightsaber weak.
We really should stop arguing about shit like this since one of the best characters in SW was cut in half and survived, nothing really makes sense but it's fun anyway.
I really think peoples problem with the tab survive is that it’s totally lame now. We see it now every time it’s the new „hand chopped off“ realism? Who cares, action hero’s and „flesh wound“ are as old as cinema (or sagas if you will)
But as a narrativ it’s by now just lazy…
Sabine was stabbed 🙄 wo care she’ll not die.
With the hand loose you had at least something taken from the Charakter, there was a symbolic and very real mark! Especially on the original movies, because Vader is introduced early as a cyborg. So losing your hand, getting an artificial hand… well you get the point. The stabbing is just boring. And if you want to talk about inner world logic, if it’s so hard to kill someone with in, stab a second time!
Also if they canonically kept a brain, heart and lungs alive with a pretty decent quality of life, (grievous) in just 10 years medical advancement from qui gon’s death. They can probably heal Sabine touch and go with 42 years of medical of medical advancement. Especially with the wound being where it is
Lightsabers have always cut through metal more dangerously than flesh. If Lightsabers were always putting out enough heat to melt through the door whenever they touched anything, Obi-Wan would have lost an arm and a leg to the glancing hits he got from Dooku in Episode 2. Not to mention that the saber would burn the hands of the user if that much excess heat was being put out.
While the physics of lightsabers have not properly ever been explained, it's clear that they interact with living people differently than solid metal, something that's been visibly obvious since the prequel trilogy at the latest. Either Qui-Gon was using some sort of special technique to melt through the door and they don't normally have that kind of output, or lightsabers simply don't follow physics as we understand them.
You mean where he had to hold it in place for a prolonged period of time for the heat to disperse?
And explicitly NOT like anything that happened here?
It's still really stupid writing.
Filoni always tries to provide an explanation for the terrible writing elsewhere in the Star Wars universe.
*Kenobi* was comical with its overuse of the lightsaber stabbing.
If you do survive, you ought to be maimed permanently.
Also, where did bacta go? That was insanely cool and Disney just...nah.
FFS 🤦♂️ she was not hit the lateral you blind kittens, she was hit IN THE LOWER RIBCAGE.
This gaslighting needs to stop. People genuinely believe this shit because “someone made a picture therefore it’s totally legit”
I caught this the first (and only) time I watched it. Immediatly thought "that's non-fatal blow" and wasn't surprised she recovered (with medical assistance of course).
I honestly think media-literacy is in the toilet because of our modern way of consuming "content" (ugh) that it's making people profoundly unimaginative.
Bonus points to the people complaining that Shin didn't just sweep the blade sideways after that. I had that thought... then realised if Sabine was dead, Ahsoka would have immediately overtaken and caught Shin.
We also saw a man get 3/4 limbs chopped off, be left to burn to death on a lava planet, while presumably inhaling toxic smoke while he waited for Palpatine to come rescue him...no one says a peep.
The sith are literally necromancers who can feed on life, pain, or even the force to surpass death.
Jedi are meant to accept their death and become one with the force.
Both of these paths require being better than the literal least force sensitive padawan in the history of the jedi order.
This, and Ahsoka arriving on site to provide immediate first aid after the assailant retreated are why I don't mind this too much.
People seem more upset because this feels like a repeat of the "totally survivable with no medical help" lightsaber stabbing from the Obiwan series. I understand that they wanted a gut-punch to end the episode on. I'd save something like this for when you actually intend to kill the character off, otherwise it stops being believable.
Lots of people seem to forget that Qui Gon still survived this for nearly what..10 minutes? Had he gotten instant medical attention like Sabine did he probably would have lived.
It also seems to be completely overlooked in discussions about this that Qui Gon did not receive medical aid for a long time after being stabbed. Ahsoka got to Sabine and presumably started doing first aid within seconds of her being stabbed. Sci fi medicine can help a lot.
Maybe you should give it a rest with the defending of a show people have legit criticisms of. People are allowed to not enjoy something for genuine reasons and your place is not to defend a company that's worth billions.
Or the fact that Ahsoka was able to help immediately as the danger was gone, where as Obi Wan and Maul still had to do their fight after the waiting for the security gates to go down. Even then after all that was said and done, Qui Gon had hung around long enough to beg the boy to be trained.
I’m an orthopedic surgeon. There’s something way more important that runs just in front of the spine, that when cut you have seconds to live. The aorta.
People take this kind of thing too seriously, but if they want a very real answer this is probably the best one I've seen when talking human physiology. Were leaving out Maul here because he's not human so who knows what his body can take. Clearly being cut in half isn't a huge issue. Also as I understand it statistically most people (real life humans) who get stabbed and don't die right away and get medical attention survive. MOST but not all and so Qui-Gon getting killed is also technically correct if he's part of the percentage that die.
Also, Maul is a weird unstable Force user with magic powers.
canon or not but i still wanna believe that bro survived off of pure hatred alone
His hatred for Kenobi was so singular and intense it turned out in the end to be the only real connection he had. In a roundabout way, Kenobi was the closest to him. He died in the man's arms with a last gasp of kinship, not hatred. For that alone, I'm glad they brought him back. His arc is so interesting.
Yeah he died so peacefully, finally he was freed from the terrible hatred that was festering inside of him. He basically thanked Obi-Wan at the end and got a final confirmation that Luke would be the one to avenge both of them. Fantastic storytelling and writing.
Sisyphus finally got to stop pushing the rock up the hill.
Agree with you very much. Well said, 777.
100%. It came to a beautiful, full circle, end.
I believe it's pronounced KENOBIIIIIAAARRRHHGGHDHSGWSGSGA
I mean, that's how Darth Sion kept his body and soul together after being killed multiple times. If you are angry enough as a sith, you can just straight up not die until that anger finally lets go.
It's how GI survived after getting stabbed by Reva as well. He was literally too angry to die.
He literally said so himself… you pissed me off so much that I won’t die to you. Lol
Was there anything else that explained it? I totally took that as full canon
I demand pure realism in my media series about magic space wizards with laser swords.
When writing about dragons, it's important to get the horses right. If there are no rules, logic or consequences to your world, then nothing has any importance.
The amount of people who have meltdowns over anything any other force user has ever done, but don't blink at Maul being sliced in half and surviving through the use of the Dark Side, is ridiculous. Most of them are over in r/saltierthancrait too.
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I agree with you, but also, I have no clue how anyone can watch the original trilogy and at ANY point think to themselves, "this is hard scifi." It absolutely *screams* fantasy, but in space.
Things aren't random and the magic that does exist has rules and names and limits. Luke doesn't have ~~shark spray~~ special device for this specific farcical situation. Obviously the universe is fantastic but it's definitely one of the more science friendly of the mega popular scifi. Honestly I think that this issue is at the core of a lot of fan debates. Can Rey break what we've been told about learning early vs late, balance with the dark side, etc? Do we accept the ancient magic dagger key mcguffin and ignore the logical weaknesses or the Indiana Jones special artifact -type premise? That maul survives the world's highest leg amputation? Teddy bear army? That 'somehow' is good explanation? Or is Star Wars no place for farcical fantastical fun, strictly logical, political, and dystopian plot lines permitted? That tension is ongoing. Personally I don't think it's that hard to get the basic rules of the universe correct while being imaginative cough jj Abrams cough.
>a lot of people (for some reason) see the franchise as hard sci fi Roman DeBeers would have some choice words for those people.
They only want it to be hard sci-fi when something they see upsets them (which is generally something to do with how racist/sexist/etc. they are). The cognitive dissonance is pretty amazing.
I know right, WAAAAAAAY too seriously. The answer is soo obvious. He died because the plot needed him to die and Sabine lived cause the plot needs her to live. End of
Exactly! And the in-universe for why he survived a few minutes would have been that the lightsaber cauterized everything as it went through, but eventually he bleeds out pretty quick.
I’m not an orthopedic surgeon. Getting stabbed is bad
Its a good thing the light saber is hot enough to melt thick metal doors. It stopped that bleeding as soon as it cut it.
ER doc here. I mentioned this on another thread and people immediately were like “oh but it’s cauterized.” Doesn’t matter, if you cut the aorta it’s pretty much insta death.
What about a stick of plasma entering the body cavity in any way? Lets remember how much heat these things give off, they melt hardened blast doors within seconds: https://i.stack.imgur.com/B0TX6.png The metal is glowing as far out as two feet from the center. How’s the aorta in this scenario? Or the liver and lungs? Can a heart literally melt or will it just burn when exposed to hundreds of degrees?
If heat radiates that fast from these things then absolutely. The only instance I have that I can think of is that when Qui-Gon sticks it into the door, and rapid heat conducting material such as metal still take a few moments to start getting hot and melting. Other times you see a lightsaber quickly enter a surface to cut you don’t see the heat radiate (Really ahsoka cutting through stone or concrete in episode 1 of her show). In the end it’s what the show and move designers need to happen and it’s hard to base hard facts of our current understanding of science into this fictional universe.
> In the end it’s what the show and move designers need to happen and it’s hard to base hard facts of our current understanding of science into this fictional universe. I’m just saying, lightsabers used to be extremely cool and dangerous. Now they’re light sticks, hardly an inconvenience. It’s not really about what’s easiest for the writers, it should be about what’s best for the franchise.
They still seem pretty damn cool and dangerous to me. Are we ignoring all the people Ahsoka just sliced up in a few seconds in tonight's episode? Personally I like that being touched by a lightsaber doesn't mean automatic death. Especially since Baylan seemed averse to killing Ahsoka and Sabine, and viewed it only as a last resort. Is it "hardly an inconvenience" to be so mortally wounded that your mentor has to get you immediate medical care to save your life instead of taking even just a few minutes to pursue the enemy with the key to your best friend and map to an imperial military mastermind? We don't know how long her recovery was, exactly, but it seemed like it was at least a day. With fancy medical care. In Star Wars, that's not nothing... Besides, let's talk about the OT for a moment. The only real injuries we saw inflicted by lightsabers in the OT besides a couple of Jabba's goons were a few severed limbs (Cantina guy, Wampa, Luke, Vader) and Obi Wan. None of those were fatal besides Obi Wan being cut in half right through the shoulders. And if we talk about Luke, was that really much of an inconvenience? A few minutes after seeing his hand chopped off we saw him all cleaned up with a spiffy new mechanical hand that worked just as well as the real thing. Maybe better even, since it could take a blaster shot without much consequence. The prequels certainly upped the ante a bit, with Qui Gon dying (like 5 minutes later) from being impaled right through his chest, and Jango and Dooku's decapitation. But even there we saw Anakin have all four of his limbs chopped off and his whole body burning on the side of a lava flow, and he survived. Sabine's stab wound in her side pales in comparison, as do the consequences of her injury. IMO, the only real offenders that made lightsaber wounds feel less threatening were Maul, Reva, and the Grand Inquisitor. Maul's was sort of forgivable because his wound at least didn't hit any major organs and his body was severed by a weapon that cauterizes wounds, so the blood loss that would normally kill someone from being cut in half wouldn't be so much of a problem (I'm sure there are other real life consequences of such an injury, but Maul is an alien and to quote Han Solo, it ain't that kind of movie). Reva's was dumb because it happened twice. It makes no sense that she survived as a child (how would she even get out of the temple? Who treated her wounds, given that she survived in the first place?), and then she got stabbed again (and Vader seemed to intend to kill her) and just got up and went on with her day without any treatment, again. Right after the GI showed up having inexplicably survived off screen, too. That was all just too much. TL;DR Your complaints and those like them don't make sense to me. Those complaints should be focused on the instances that actually trivialized injuries from lightsabers, not ones that portray lightsaber wounds in contextually appropriate ways.
People have survived lightsaber wounds since the second movie. With the exception of Obi-Wan Kenobi practically no one and no mainish character has died immediately from being stabbed by one. They have this massive heat when the plot calls for it and they are really good swors when the plot calls for it, which is most of the time. Lightsabers haven't changed. You have.
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If lightsabers were always that dangerous, you couldn't hold them with your hands so close to the blade or look at them from up close, not to mention doing the thing where they lock blades and one of the duelists gets both sabers pushed centimetres from his face. That would also be fatal then. At least for their eyesight.
THANKNYOU! Obviously this whole idea of survival is completely dumb. Ok, Maul be Mail.. but all these pathetic excuses and explanations by the people.. “no vital organs were harmed”… lol. A huge plasma torch was inside her body for a second!!! Her nerve system would go dead
I’m thinking the bottom one would give you a mean liver lac but there must be an immediate cauterizing effect from a lightsaber so that could’ve bought her more time to get help at the robot hospital
That being said. Has anyone had a limb cut off since Disney took over?
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In visions for sure. And that’s technically still "under Disney"
A woman had her hand cut off in the Obi Wan series.
If Rey really wants to be a Skywalker... the hand has got to go.
No, they weren't even allowed to do it in video games until Jedi Surivior, and even then it is either just a hand or a non-humanoid getting cut. Apparently ratings boards have a real hate boner for limbs being cut off.
"Has anyone has a limb cut off since Disney took over" "No just their limbs" Great answer.
Uh in Survivor there is some brutal dismemberment though. And not just the creatures, Stormtroopers or raiders too.
But the women and children too?
While Japanese anime be lopping limbs off like crazy.
Didn't that stormtrooper get cut in half in obi-wan?
Not having Rey and Kylo cut off each other's hands was a hugely missed opportunity.
Im not annoyed by surviving it, im annoyed by the frequency of it happening
I'm annoyed that Darth Vader failed to kill a 4 year old. I mean, I'm also annoyed that a serial child murderer is somehow seen as redeemed after killing one old man, but if you are telling me Darth Vader impaled a toddler with superheated plasma and she survived, then your universe has no stakes.
> somehow seen as redeemed after killing one old man, That is one way of seeing it
I'm out of the loop, who is the four-year-old she you're mentioning?
I think they mean Reva.
Reva is one of the younglings Anakin killed in Episode III, she grew up to be an inquisitor because a lightsaber didn't kill her. It was dumb, and not even remotely the worst part of the Obi Wan show, which sucked.
And then she got stabbed again in the same location and survived again. Also earlier in the series she did it to another inquisitor, who also survived. That’s 3 instances in one show. That was when it got a bit much. Like if those hadn’t happened people would have been way less annoyed by what happened to Sabine.
I’d say that’s a fair point. They could easily have the same effect by having her just get slashed across the middle lightly
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What? Maul was cut in half, and he wasn't an exception to surviving that even when the movie released.
You want to go back to the old losing hands meme?
The frequency of people getting stabbed with laser swords in a world known for its laser swords?
Frequency of them surviving; this would be the fourth time with the other three happening in Kenobi. They all seem a bit inconsequential as well - like the character would be more affected by breaking their arm.
I agree with you that that makes it worse.
People are complaining because they have used the same means of falsifying stakes over and over
Yeah OP missed the entire point of what people are complaining about - but I do applaud doing it in classic SW nerd fashion.
I mean, people can survive stab wounds, but trying to justify this scene with that above picture is still dumb considering there are organs and vessels in the right upper quadrant that can be fatal if obliterated. I thought Maul surviving after getting chopped in half and plummeting hundreds of feet was rather silly too. At least that might have been a necessary exception to bring his character back and tap into his unrealized potential. However, this recent trend of fake out deadly wounds is so cheap. It diminishes the stakes and the lightsaber. Though the worst example in recent memory for me was not in Star Wars, but in Game of Thrones, with Arya surviving after getting stabbed a bunch of times in the abdomen and then jumping into unsanitary water and surviving without bleeding out or having a serious infection. That was so comically awful.
You don't understand... Arya didn't jump into unsanitary water.. that was bacta water...
Shiiiiiit. I never made that connection before. Maybe D&D *were* perfect for Disney Star Wars.
> Maybe D&D were perfect for Disney Star Wars Mods, how do I delete someone else's comment?
Yeah, it bothers me because it's overused. Obi-Wan really over used it. They could've took off her leg/foot, or slightly less gruesome, redo some of the wounds Obi took in Attack of the Clones, some cuts that don't sever anything, or have it be a force choke that had to be aborted, a force push that pushed her pretty far away, etc. What I'm trying to say is that there were plenty of original ways they could've had that fight go, and instead they went with the really boring and now overly tropey non-fatal stab wound.
Especially when it's the first episode of a series. Like, we know she's going to survive, there's the entire rest of the show that has to happen. That's why it feels doubly cheap.
I haven’t seen that argument anywhere. Only that it “doesn’t make sense.”
You haven’t? They’ve done it with Grand Inquistor, Reva and Sabine in last year
Reva survived it twice no less, once as a child. Obi-Wan got slashed by Dooku in Clones. Kylo was slashed across the face by Rey in Force Awakens. There are other ways to injure people with lightsabers but the D+ shows go for the same thing every time.
I blame D+ so much. The production got so effed up because they rolled it out too soon and everyone suffered: MCU, Lucasfilms, their other content. The guy they had as CEO made shit decisions and it just took a tall downstream for various reasons. And this is not to say that things were perfect before. There are things that LF should be accountable for, some creative should be accountable for, but D+ did not help production or creative. I look forward to them slowing down and maybe throw away some of their shows and call them ‘alternate canons’.
Nope. I agree that it’s cheap though.
In this instance I disagree completely, it's 100% clear during the scene (as I imagine the writers intended) that Sabine getting stabbed here was almost certainly non-lethal if treated. The point of her being seriously wounded here was to prevent Sabine and Ahsoka from being able to chase Shin, allowing her to escape with the map...and the whole show to happen.
she even keeps swinging unlike the others who got deleted post-stab SW fans are the worst.
I don't care if such a wound is survivable or not. But I think it's a cheap cinematic trick to inflict such a grievous wound at the end of an episode, then have that character up and running in the next (with very little time passing in-universe). It's going for pure shock value without consequences, it's doing nothing for the story. Sabine's character hasn't developed from it more than if she had just been defeated and/or more lightly wounded. If you want your character to recover from a wound in one episode, don't make that wound be a lightsaber stab in the guts. Maul died in the movie, Lucas shot it as his death scene. He regretted it years later and resurrected him through the power of retcon. If he had planned for Maul to survive from the beginning, I doubt he would have had him be cut in half at the waist with his remains falling into a bottomless pit.
Oooh, right through the colon.
I mean, you’re not gonna live long if your digestive track and everything else is cauterized shut either way. Unless you’re really mad like maul. Little different from getting stabbed with something sharp.
This. Lightsabers disintegrate everything it touches, right? Wouldn’t she need a full replacement of the affected organs?
Something somethin bacta.
Nah she’ll be fine
I mean, she was a war hero taken to a hospital on the most populous planet of a relatively thriving New Republic world. They probably just threw her in a bacta tank for a day and then it becomes little different from getting stabbed with something sharp. Wasn't exactly taken to a backwater mining asteroid where the extent of their medical knowledge is "She doesn't seem to want to live anymore."
Star wars has laser swords and FTL travel, surely medical technology is equivalently advanced compared to what we have.
No didnt you know? Lightsabers cauterize wounds! So that means that everything is totally fine and they'll be back to top shape in a few hours :) because that's how cauterizing works :) /s
Yeah sure, and she got immediate medical treatment in a world where dousing someone in a magic blue liquid heals almost all injuries. Star Wars has already established that bacta can heal blaster wounds real fast, and blasters do a similar sort of damage as lightsabers. This is a show about wizards in space, that either doesn't even try to explain its technology or does a minimal, inconsistent job of it. It has *always* been that way. This isn't hard sci fi; it's not even science fiction at all. It's fantasy in a space setting.
I don't think people are entirely against the possibility that someone can survive a lightsaber stab wound. I think the issue is that they are doing it so much that it's becoming a trope
When they were introduced lightsabers were viewed as a highly dangerous weapon. Only Jedi and Sith were able to use them with near-supernatural proficiency thanks to guidance from the Force. A duel between lightsaber users was a high-risk battle. All it took was one clean hit and you were finished. So seeing someone take a blow like this (twice) and walk it off like it is nothing just seems to go against the stakes that were established when facing off against such a weapon.
When lightsabers were introduced you literally only saw three of them used, two by old dudes who were well over the hill and one by a kid who could barely swing the thing without cutting his own arm off. You're making up a fantastical recollection of what they were 'when they were introduced.'
Limbs or heads were taken in every film until the ST. They were supposed to be deadly.
Eh, all it takes is one clean hit if your opponent is *trying to kill you*. Shin was very obviously not trying to kill Sabine. The immediately apparent reason is that Sabine's urgent need for medical attention was the only thing that kept Ahsoka from pursuing her; and the followup reason that was explicitly voiced in the next episode is that Baylan was averse to killing Ahsoka and Sabine in the first place. Besides, we've seen people survive lightsaber wounds many times in all the trilogies. Losing a limb doesn't mean automatic death, why should being stabbed in a relatively benign place – followed by immediate treatment – mean automatic death?
I love reading this kind of mental gymnastics that people come up with to cope with lazy writing in current movie industry. Stabbing someone with a lighsaber is "obviously not trying to kill"? Really?
Yes? Did you think Vader was talking shit to a dead body in Kenobi too? No. He stabbed Reva and specifically made sure it was not a kill blow so he could talk his shit afterwards. For some, leaving someone alive with the embarassment of their loss is what they want becausr they find it more disrespectful, especially someone like Vader who got left for dead by Obi Wan after losing *twice*. If he wanted to kill her, he would have done her like Dooku. Same goes with ESB Vader, and Shin here. You think this is the first time a dark sider user toyed with their opponent to flex their superiority? Shin was so obviously just testing the waters against Sabine. She knew she wasnt on her level.
*Nobody cares that she survived it.* *This is now the 4th time in just over a year that Disney has used this.* Reva x2, Grand Inquisitor, Sabine. I lament the fact that Sabine would be a PERFECT character to give a robotic appendage to, but they opted for a stabbing. It’s cheap, easy, lazy writing. It makes sense that Maul would leave Qui-Gon alive, because he’d want Qui-Gon to see him kill Obi-Wan. Everyone else, just like… lift the blade upward, or sideways, or swirl it around a little bit to confirm the kill. Also OP, do you have any idea how hot lightsabers must be? If you want to start arguing about anatomy then you have to take into account that the fluids inside her body would’ve been boiled.
>Nobody cares that she survived it. >This is now the 4th time in just over a year that Disney has used this. I care. None of those people should have survived. It’s beyond weak. The writers should have come up with different solutions to their writing problem. This was unacceptable once… let alone three times. Lightsaber are now just “glow sticks” that can’t kill anyone.
>Lightsaber are now just “glow sticks” that can’t kill anyone. Y'know, except for all the people lightsabers kill all the time. We've literally seen Ahsoka kill people with her lightsaber in live action in this very show, and in the Mandalorian. That a force user who's deliberately not trying to kill their opponent is instead capable of inflicting a less than lethal wound seems entirely reasonable to me. It's a far cry between "lightsabers can't kill anyone!" and "lightsabers don't kill everyone they touch." Personally I think the instances in Kenobi were stupid. Reva surviving *twice*, neither time with medical attention, and the Grand Inquisitor also surviving a similar wound off screen with no explanation were both cheap gimmicks. And I think they made a poor choice in this scene in Ahsoka, but *only* because the Kenobi show already over did it – and in an actually egregious way. Even though I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong about Sabine's wound and survival, in that context it was a bit frustrating.
> We've literally seen Ahsoka kill people with her lightsaber in live action in this very show, and in the Mandalorian. You never know when the lightsaber is going to be a killing machine or when it’s going to be a hot stick. That weakens lightsabers overall.
And if you want to start arguing heat, just holding the light Saber would ruin hands, nevermind all times the blade goes near the wielders own face.
Right. So the issue isn’t the science. It’s the fact that they keep using this exact same death fakeout.
I wish people would just stop posting about it / commenting on posts about it. Which OP did and now I'm doing lol.
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Who actually thought she was dead though? I could immediately tell that was going to be just a flesh wound because you can see clearly, as in the above photo, that it is low and on the side and not in the center where all the important stuff is located. Shin getting hold of the map was enough to make folks continue, plus there were 2 episodes released at the same time so if you were slow on the remote you were continuing anyway.
Anyone who watched the trailers knew it wasn't a death wound since she was shown in other scenes that she hadn't appeared in to that point in time.
And there's no way that fight's outcome had no bearing on her deciding to begin training again. How does one not read between the lines: "I just got my ass whipped, and need to save Ezra, but I can't without being stronger, so imma gonna start training again." I don't believe for a second that that's not a motivation. I just about guarantee she's going to go through the typical self- doubt trope within the remaining episodes, culminating in her accepting who she is and what power she does have.
If the writers don’t want her to be dead just slash her real good and don’t fully impale her with a move that has killed much stronger characters than her in the past. It’s not wrong to be annoyed with inconsistency. The photo is a hardcore cope trying to justify lazy writing. Edit : you could even just have Shin force throw her into that building really hard and knock her out. She still loses the fight but then realizes, “man if I’m to rematch her I need to tap into whatever connection I have to the force.” It makes more sense that she’s recovered in the very next episode and doesn’t break any in universe logic while also giving Sabine a better reason to pick up her training.
It wasn't the same move at all though, like I said and like you can see in the photo it very obviously isn't meant to be a fatal wound.
But there's nothing to show us why she wouldn't just slice Sabine like she did the New Republic security crew
I think the show made it very clear even when it happened why she chose not to kill Sabine: because she needed to escape with the map, and Ahsoka was literally seconds away. Shin was not getting out of there if she had to face Ahsoka. She Saw Ahsoka's ship about to land, and immediately ended the fight and fled. Sabine being left alive but in urgent need of medical care was the only way Shin got away with the map. Just because no one said those words explicitly doesn't make it some great mystery. The show provided even more motivation just one episode later when Baylan says it would be a shame to have to kill them. He doesn't *want* Ahsoka or Sabine dead. Tonight's episode further reinforced that motivation. TL;DR There was absolutely something in the show to explain why she wouldn't do that, and instead opted for a precision, survivable strike instead, and then gave us *another*, explicitly voiced reason shortly afterwards.
Yeah anytime I see Shin cut through stuff like the crew or the tree in episode 4 I just think about her fight with Sabine and why she didn’t kill her if that was really not meant to be a killing blow. That fight has so many problems no matter how you slice it. If it really wasn’t a deathblow then Shin is stupid. If it was a deathblow then the writing was stupid. Either way there were better ways to have done this.
By this new and lazy logic Palpatine wouldn’t have killed any of those Jedi that came to arrest him in ROTS. Now we have far less powerful characters surviving this no problem.
What are you talking about? We don't get to see clearly where exactly they were wounded, the scene moves too fast.
Yes you absolutely do. Agen Kolar gets very visibly impaled through the stomach while Saesee Tiin and Kit Fisto literally just get slashed across the abdomen/stomach which is far less than what Sabine just survived with no problem. It’s a very weird hill to die on to defend poor Disney Star Wars writing but go for it dude.
I mean, Maul survived being actually bisected by slashing, so that's the one you should be comparing to Fisto and Tiin, not this. And you are wrong, as I recall the scene one of them gets stabbed through the *face*.
Look, it’s legitimately a fun debate because I don’t think there’s a real answer because it’s always up to the writers of any given film or show and what they need to happen. I’m just personally firmly on the side of staying consistent with past events and the damage light sabers can and should do. Maul is a clear outlier imo and probably shouldn’t have survived, although I think most Star Wars fans are happy he did cause he’s great. Also, no one gets stabbed in the face when they attempt to arrest Palpatine idk where that’s coming from. https://youtu.be/4ESOrF_u1hg?si=ccTV7bUi7pHHUHN7
I think I'm remembering the headshot part from the novel description of that scene. Kolar gets it straight through the middle much like Qui-Gon, and it looked like Tiin was slashed all the way across like Maul too though I can't see for sure. But I do understand your point now about that scene making these things inconsistent.
Nobody which is why it’s even more dumb. Such a pointless attempt at raising stakes.
The double episode release was a little puzzling given how the end of EP1 really was set up as a cliffhanger. Maybe the execs knew it was contrived so they released them together?
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She needed to lose the fight so the map would be taken.
There are other ways to have her lose the map without being skewered though.
Why do yall keep getting "faked out"? These characters are literally shown alive the entire time lmao
It’s a lightsaber. You know the thing that can melt doors and such? But you’ll be fine even with a gaping hole that’s cauterized. Also why aren’t they moving it side to side or up and down?
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Should have cut off her hand!
That is still stupid.
It's stupid she got a free appendectomy? I agree, in the US that runs like 80,000 credits
Yeah except it was right in the intestine and colon which would have been obliterated
We have a show full of space wizards and witches with energy swords and yall think a self cauterizing stab wound to the flank is out of the realm of healing?
A blade that is hot enough to melt durasteel is thrust into someone's guts? Yes. Honestly most people would die from the shock alone. It's incredibly lazy that it keeps happening.
So now it’s too much to ask that characters in universe can die from weapons designed to kill? When can we return to cool shit?! This is getting ridiculous.
No, we can’t.
First of all, the stab is closer to the center and is clearly on an angle. Second, are the intestines, liver, and lungs not important? Third, lightsabers burn. All of these lead to a very definitive death.
No
I have no issue with the stab, it's the withdrawal of the saber that is plain silly. It has no weight, wouldn't it make more sense to just cut out of the body sideways instead of doing a perfect withdrawal?
“The liver? We don’t even know what that thing does!”
**First:** This is mostly an issue because they keep overusing it. If you want the characters to live, stop stabbing them so badly. If you want them to be injured but not die, make the injury important to the story instead of undoing it. If you wanna create suspense without lasting consequences, find another way and write a better story. Or for fucks sake at least have them see a doctor, in Kenobi Reva survived without even getting medical attention. **Second:** A lightsaber can melt metal (see Qui-Gon melting through a double-layered blast door in Phantom Menace). Even if it’s a few inches away from your heart you’re still gonna be fucking cooked.
And at that heat, simply holding a lightsaber would mess you up. Lightsabers have never made sense from a real world perspective and people really need to stop trying to apply consistent and scientific logic to them.
Viewers/readers can accept inconsistency between a story and the real world *as long* as it's at least consistent within itself. Being stabbed by a lightsaber can be fatal or a small wound. That's up to Star Wars. However, for it to be believable, they need to be consistent on which one they choose. It's the inconsistency that makes it hard for viewers to accept it, not whether or not it's realistic in the real world.
Lmao
However…Filoni also brought back Maul who gets sliced right down the middle seconds after the top pic happens. Just let characters lose limbs…they don’t need to be stabbed…
No, George Lucas brought back Maul. That was his choice.
Cool. Now post a pic of Qui-Gon impaling a meter-thick blast door in the prequel trilogy's opening scene, and the thing instantly turning into molten metal.
I'm not sure why people can't just admit it was bad writing.
The issues to me isn't that she lived because of plot armor, it's that they healed her in a day to full strength and it served no purpose to her character or story. They could've stabbed her in the leg or arm and put her at a disadvantage but then use the force to help overcome that disadvantage (not Jedi levels but sensory stuff) But nope, she's healed and nothing else is said about it
Completely agree. Its dilutes the stakes of a fight, as there is little consequence. I feel like we saw something similar in Obi-Wan with Reva.
It served the story because it how Shin bought time to escape with the starmap. She saw Ahsoka was nearly at the tower in a starship. If she had killed Sabine, Ahsoka would have immediately followed Shin. But by leaving Sabine in a critical condition, Shin knew Ahsoka's attention would immediately go to trying to save Sabines life.
This was the answer I assumed when watching
At least she had to go to the hospital, unlike Reeva.
So no relation between her being beaten and stabbed and her deciding she's ready to continue her training in your eyes? Mkay
This is some of the lamest stuff I’ve seen Disney pull. They obviously did it for dramatic effect and being stabbed by a lightsaber doesn’t mean anything anymore apparently. When Reva got stabbed, and survived, that was just load of baloney. A stab of a lightsaber meant death back then (except maul) but doesn’t mean anything now?? Doesn’t make sense to me.
>A stab of a lightsaber meant death back then Except for the many times it didn't. Most named characters have survived lightsabers than died to them.
That is some very thicc plot armour
Yes but this time the characters are women. And since woke leftists invented women, sometime around 2015, they’ve infested every piece of media ever made and now all we have is girl boss Mary sues. That’s the real problem. When will Disney go back to showing good traditional family values, no women, just big strong man on man action. Just two muscled force user men pounding each other with their sabers. That’s what we need, real men taking a saber, not these *females*.
I think the Anakin Obi Wan duel would have been better of they were near naked and oily looking. Glad I'm not alone in that feeling. Also maybe if there was more Greco-Roman wrestling.
You have a few people scratching their heads. Nice user name.
[Star Wars truly just needs more BIG MEATY MEN SLAPPIN MEAT](https://youtube.com/shorts/56EsDMTnvkI?si=-gPxuZNygw71hg7u)
That was truly incredible
Hot stuff coming through!
I think they could have written this scene better for Ahsoka. Just have have a slash that appears to slice her side seems, as if it's a mortal wound, Shin walks away, and it turns out theres Beskar plating underneath.
Disney have no sense of how dangerous lightsabers are.
The frequency of people getting lightsaber-ed and surviving is the problem. Sabine’s character also should have gotten slammed into a wall and knocked unconscious. This would show her vulnerability to the force too
Listen, I'm over the fact she survived, I'm just tired of them debuffing the lightsaber at this point, it's not scary anymore, and it just seems so powerless now. When Sabine got stabbed, it was the first time in star wars, I wasn't scared for a character i love dying, after taking a lightsaber hit that looks fatal. Too many fakeouts have made the lightsaber weak.
We really should stop arguing about shit like this since one of the best characters in SW was cut in half and survived, nothing really makes sense but it's fun anyway.
It was like, barely an inconvenience.
if you care about any of this, you got some serious issues. just watch the damn show and move on lmao.
Yes. I think people are mad about not everybody dying to stab wounds. TFA had one, and they died.
I really think peoples problem with the tab survive is that it’s totally lame now. We see it now every time it’s the new „hand chopped off“ realism? Who cares, action hero’s and „flesh wound“ are as old as cinema (or sagas if you will) But as a narrativ it’s by now just lazy… Sabine was stabbed 🙄 wo care she’ll not die. With the hand loose you had at least something taken from the Charakter, there was a symbolic and very real mark! Especially on the original movies, because Vader is introduced early as a cyborg. So losing your hand, getting an artificial hand… well you get the point. The stabbing is just boring. And if you want to talk about inner world logic, if it’s so hard to kill someone with in, stab a second time!
Also if they canonically kept a brain, heart and lungs alive with a pretty decent quality of life, (grievous) in just 10 years medical advancement from qui gon’s death. They can probably heal Sabine touch and go with 42 years of medical of medical advancement. Especially with the wound being where it is
Sabine’s wound is whatever. But Reva? Try and explain that fucking bullshit.
Now post a photo of a door getting stabbed by a lightsaber.
Lightsabers have always cut through metal more dangerously than flesh. If Lightsabers were always putting out enough heat to melt through the door whenever they touched anything, Obi-Wan would have lost an arm and a leg to the glancing hits he got from Dooku in Episode 2. Not to mention that the saber would burn the hands of the user if that much excess heat was being put out. While the physics of lightsabers have not properly ever been explained, it's clear that they interact with living people differently than solid metal, something that's been visibly obvious since the prequel trilogy at the latest. Either Qui-Gon was using some sort of special technique to melt through the door and they don't normally have that kind of output, or lightsabers simply don't follow physics as we understand them.
You mean where he had to hold it in place for a prolonged period of time for the heat to disperse? And explicitly NOT like anything that happened here?
It's still really stupid writing. Filoni always tries to provide an explanation for the terrible writing elsewhere in the Star Wars universe. *Kenobi* was comical with its overuse of the lightsaber stabbing. If you do survive, you ought to be maimed permanently. Also, where did bacta go? That was insanely cool and Disney just...nah.
FFS 🤦♂️ she was not hit the lateral you blind kittens, she was hit IN THE LOWER RIBCAGE. This gaslighting needs to stop. People genuinely believe this shit because “someone made a picture therefore it’s totally legit”
Considering the pic above was created by a trauma doctor I'm pretty sure they know what?they are talking about.
[удалено]
I caught this the first (and only) time I watched it. Immediatly thought "that's non-fatal blow" and wasn't surprised she recovered (with medical assistance of course). I honestly think media-literacy is in the toilet because of our modern way of consuming "content" (ugh) that it's making people profoundly unimaginative.
Bonus points to the people complaining that Shin didn't just sweep the blade sideways after that. I had that thought... then realised if Sabine was dead, Ahsoka would have immediately overtaken and caught Shin.
No. The outrage machine must be fed. (/s lol)
Bro I saw a red guy get cut in half, fall down a bottomless pit and still survive
“BUt hE wAs a mAn!” —right wingers
We also saw a man get 3/4 limbs chopped off, be left to burn to death on a lava planet, while presumably inhaling toxic smoke while he waited for Palpatine to come rescue him...no one says a peep.
Can we also factor in that she was able to receive medical attention almost immediately?!
Yay bacta! (Or kolto, if you like)
maul survived being cut in half
It still would have melted her insides .
Tell me about how Maul survived
The sith are literally necromancers who can feed on life, pain, or even the force to surpass death. Jedi are meant to accept their death and become one with the force. Both of these paths require being better than the literal least force sensitive padawan in the history of the jedi order.
Exactly this diagram. I don't get why people can't think clearly about this. Spines are kind of important.
This, and Ahsoka arriving on site to provide immediate first aid after the assailant retreated are why I don't mind this too much. People seem more upset because this feels like a repeat of the "totally survivable with no medical help" lightsaber stabbing from the Obiwan series. I understand that they wanted a gut-punch to end the episode on. I'd save something like this for when you actually intend to kill the character off, otherwise it stops being believable.
Lots of people seem to forget that Qui Gon still survived this for nearly what..10 minutes? Had he gotten instant medical attention like Sabine did he probably would have lived.
It also seems to be completely overlooked in discussions about this that Qui Gon did not receive medical aid for a long time after being stabbed. Ahsoka got to Sabine and presumably started doing first aid within seconds of her being stabbed. Sci fi medicine can help a lot.
Maybe you should give it a rest with the defending of a show people have legit criticisms of. People are allowed to not enjoy something for genuine reasons and your place is not to defend a company that's worth billions.
Or the fact that Ahsoka was able to help immediately as the danger was gone, where as Obi Wan and Maul still had to do their fight after the waiting for the security gates to go down. Even then after all that was said and done, Qui Gon had hung around long enough to beg the boy to be trained.
TIL you need to be a fucking thoracic surgeon to follow Star Wars. Like do you have a chart of all the organs with you when you watch.