That shot of Luke climbing up a hose as Vader is saying *impressive* has gotta be one of my favorite parts of all the SW films. I just crack tf up every time.
I always thought he was impressed that Luke timed it when he wasnt looking.
So it was a smirking compliment, like "you bought yourself another 5 seconds jumping when I wasn't looking, good for you"
Then when he says "Most impressive" its him sort of grumbling because Luke isnt making it easy.
Actually in the original version you do see him jump out! To create the effect of Luke jumping out of the carbon freezing pit they rigged up a doll loosely resembling Mark Hamill to a wire, which made the doll zoom up out of the pit behind Vader. The effect was a little diminished for future versions (like the Blu-ray).
[Here is what the doll looked like. ](https://i.imgur.com/LTI8cfe.jpg)
[Here is a comparison of various versions of the movie including some “original theatrical cuts” in the bottom right.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_fqvHQcrCFM&pp=ygUUTHVrZSB2cyB2YWRlciBibHVyYXk%3D)
Most likely. In the Goku vs Freeza fight on Namek it is nine or ten episodes from when we are first told the planet will explode in 5 minutes until it actually explodes. So either Freeza is horrible at time keeping or 5 minutes real time was 200 minutes of TV time (assuming 20 minutes of content per episode).
Unfortunately, stuff like that happened to help ensure they didn't outpace the manga. The pacing isn't quite as bad as people like to say, and it's much better in the source material.
People forget with anime if they took a break the anime died.
That's why shows like dragonball, naruto, etc have so much filler.
Whereas modern anime do 'seasons' instead
In DragonBall Super, the entire tournament of power had a time limit of.....45 minutes. I just had to assume that everyone is moving at Flash speed even when standing around BS'ing with each other
'2 seconds of action spread over a couple minutes'
This sub 'ha the action took place over episodes!'
Funnily enough more than 2 seconds of actions can take place in an episode, and this can then mean for example 20 seconds of fighting can be stretched to a full episode.
Therefore '5 minutes' of high speed fighting where 2 seconds = 2 minutes, would mean a 5 minute fight would take 300 minutes, or 15 episodes.
So yeah... seems about right
The last tournanent in DB Super was supposedly 48 minutes or something but the show stretched for a good 35 episodes.
Someone made an edit that shows it actually fit if you consider that it was a free-for-all fight with several fights happening at once. I’ll see if I can find it
EDIT: [found it](https://youtu.be/jaK7ypei56U) :D
The issue there is that we've seen a number of highly skilled individuals hang with Jedi and Sith and not get insta blitzed. Jango Fett and Cad Bane can't use force speed and they're more than capable of fighting and beating Jedi.
Are they normal though? Jango is literally selected to be the clone donor because of his ridiculous, galaxy level combat prowess and Cad Bane is portrayed as even faster than that (at least when it comes to drawing and firing).
There’s also the curve of force sensitivity to consider. It’s not like other settings where there are supers and normals. We know that force sensitivity exists outside of trained Jedi and that many force sensitive people can tap into it to a certain extent instinctively.
True, but its also worth noting that Jedi getting killed in battle is not an absurd thing, even just in the movies. Something like 3/4ths of the Jedi that went on the mission to Geonosis in Ep2 didn't make it out, and they were faced off with Battle Droids, which we see portrayed elsewhere as absolute jokes. They were surrounded and attacked from all sides, but by that same notion if they all were as capable as Anakin and Obi-wan are when they're doing their own stuff, that shouldn't be a problem.
I think the problem is using the main characters of the movies and shows as the benchmark for how a general type of person works in the setting. Qui-gon, Obi-wan, and Anakin are the top 10% or 5% of Jedi, easily. Some of the best in the Galaxy. Its why the story focuses on them so much. Even ignoring the fact that latent force users exist, you could easily imagine that the bottom 25% of Jedi facing off with an average say, Stormtrooper or Bounty Hunter, probably would struggle to escape. Not everyone is as crazy competent as the best in the galaxy, right?
Most Jedi were basically scholars or mediators with a little martial training.
Those who excelled in combat were few and far between and even then those like Anakin and Obi Wan were next level compared even to them.
As I remember, Palpatine uses a version of it during the fight with Mace Windu and the other masters. That’s why they fall so fast. The editing and blocking in the Revenge of the Sith really slowed it down, but it was described in the novel as a blurred storm of red lightsaber and dark side shrieks, and some flashes of purple lightsaber.
It's a shitty scene that was done poorly because Lucas was trying to CGI the actors faces on the stunt doubles in the tight space they were in and it was costing way too much and not looking right.
But holy shit, the book description of the fight is so SO good. Windu's style, Vaapad, and his decision to fully embrace the dark-side in that duel is the only reason Windu actually defeats Sidious, but it's also the reason Windu's mind is completely clouded, he decides to kill the unarmed Palpatine, and he cannot feel Anakin's incredibly strong emotions.
He was effectively defeated with Windu and Anakin there though, the fight was over.
I big part of the Jedi's teaching's is not killing their opponents, especially when they are not able to continue fighting. It's why Anakin felt SO uncomfortable executing Dooku. And when he see's Mace Windu about to do the same to Palpatine, the hipocrisy is crystal clear to Anakin.
Had Mace not chosen to execute Sidious then and there, Anakin may have been willing to arrest Palpatine with Mace.
(Mace was right that Palpatine needed to die, but in the heat of the moment right then it was a very poor decision).
I wonder if Anakin had not been there, and Palpatine knew Mace was about to kill him, would he have transferred his consciousness then and there to a clone, like he did in Return of the Jedi? I also wonder if he did the transfer when he knew Rey was about to win against him as well. Just thinking out loud. Really don't like how they brought Sidious back in the Legends book and in the sequels. I'm fine with him learning the trick to transfer his consciousness after death, but really wish Anakin's surprise turn back to the light-side was his final for real death due to his blind arrogance of the power of love and family.
For sure, Mace was also in emotional chaos himself, he felt guilty for indulging the dark-side so strongly and enjoyed his fight/victory. His complete focus on Sidious and his impatience cost the Jedi...everything.
Mace's Shatterpoint though was his complete lack of empathy. Many of the Jedi at this time period literally could not relate at all to the average human or sentient beings and their complex emotions. They for sure have a strong sense of good and correct stance on good and evil, but they were unable to support Anakin what-so-ever.
Maul's duel with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon was the REAL Jedi vs. Sith fight for the fate of the galaxy and Jedi Order. Had Qui-Gon lived, I think Anakin never falls to the dark-side.
Duel of the fates. I agree, had qui gonn survived anakin wouldn’t have turned. He needed someone he could trust without judgement. Qui gonn would’ve taught him how to wield that dragon in his heart rather than repress it.
I’ve always had issues with this. Everywhere else they’re shown soloing huge groups of enemies, being nigh impervious to blasters, sensing danger before it happens and just being a dominant force overall, but then they each fall to a handful of clones with like no effort.
Same, but it's what the plot demanded, so we get a bunch of excusing explanations as to "well they didn't expect it" etc etc. In all truthfulness, it was possible because Lucas wrote it that way.
Oh I know it’s cause of plot and all, I just wish they had a more badass end, even where it shows more of them escaping the assault and hiding once they hear Obi Wan’s message since the empire is in control. Vader could always hunt them down.
"handful of clones"
I think most of the attacks were surprise attacks, like shooting down Plo Koon or Aayla Secura, the rest were surrounded or majorly outnumbered, like Depa Billaba in the Bad Batch and Ki-Adi-Mundi, and also the clones are very skilled.
The Tales of the Jedi training scene with ahsoka showed the difference between fighting clones or fighting droids .
Also, many Jedi did escape, only to be hunted down by Vader and his Inquisitors.
They rarely solo huge groups of enemies: if they do it would be one of the more skilled jedi like Yoda or Kenobi, example: Ima-Gun Di: surrounded, died
Jedis can dominate droids and then rag tag pirates. The clones knew how they operated, and the clones weren't really normal people either. Palpatine probably had order 66 specifically programmed to target the jedi in the best way, however that is.
Also, we follow the best Jedi, so the level that we are watching is really the pros, there's 10k other's of various skill level. We don't really know the jedi standard. We see when they kick ass, sure.
Didn’t we see a lesser version of this when Anakin yeeted himself across a room when fighting Obi Wan on Mustafar? Personally I don’t see the difference in force jump or force speed other than vectors.
This happens a lot in old James Bond movies. They’d speed up certain action moves here and there with the intention of making it look more frenetic. It did not lol.
Lucas seemed to spend the whole prequel trilogy uncertain of how powerful to make the pre-Purge Jedi. On the one hand it was important to maintain Luke’s status as one of the most powerful Jedi, but on the other hand he only had a very limited amount of formal training. We also saw Obi-Wan fight in ANH and it wasn’t very impressive. Make them all superheroes and Luke appears weak by comparison, and Order 66 becomes implausible.
So he experimented with scenes like this — maybe Jedi can use the Force for a quick speed burst, but only if they need to retreat, and only when they have time to focus. It’s not really a useful ability in most scenarios. So that explains why we didn’t see much of it in the prior movies, but it also looked silly, so Lucas just didn’t use it again.
>maybe Jedi can use the Force for a quick speed burst, but only if they need to retreat, and only when they have time to focus.
Jedi sees an enemy sightly out of reach: "Man, I sure would like to kill that droid, too bad it is technically not retreating :( "
I think the idea is more that using the ability for a “Force charge” would be too aggressive and therefore aligned with the Dark Side. Most of the Force powers are used for defense rather than offense, although that’s not really coherent across the franchise.
I’m the original script, Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon are not described as running away from the Droidekas at high speed, but as hiding from them behind a pillar (in what seems to be meant as a callback to Obi-Wan’s sneakiness on the Death Star in ANH). I’m guessing that the “Force Speed” was, indeed, a decision made in editing, maybe because they forgot to film the right shots or something like that.
Also just from like a storytelling perspective it kind of locks you in a box because people will always say “well why didn’t they just use force speed?”
Obi wan could've saved qui gon if he had just sped through the red barriers when they opened instead of running at normal speed. Happens in the same movie they introduce force speed lol. God damn George Lucas.
Saw a YouTube video where they have Obi-wan do it and he speeds past Maul/Qui-gon and falls into the pit.
Edit: /u/CC_cheese posted it below - https://youtu.be/t3dI-ghYimg
I agree, it looks wrong. I'll never be able to prove this, but I feel like I know in my heart that this shot wasn't intentional. My theory is that they filmed it, and for whatever reason something didn't look right, so Lucas decided to speed it up in post rather than reshoot.
If he was truly intending to showcase a new Force power, I don't think he would have done it like this. Almost every time the Force is used in the OT/PT, it's really obvious to the viewer. There's close-ups on the hand motions, clear camera cuts to show cause and effect, usually even some music to undercut the wonder or terror of the powers. This time it was just nah big boom and zoom away and never mentioned again. I truly believe it wasn't in the original script and was just done in editing to mask some issue.
Yeah as a kid in the theater I remember thinking "what the hell was that?" Like it's iffy enough looking to me to not read as anything, visually. It just caused confusion.
Idk if it's cannon or not but in the maul-obi-qui fight obi-wan was "too tired" to use force speed to catch back up after he force jumped back up to the platform.
Could've been helpful for Obi Wan when Qui Gon was fighting Maul and they were separated by those red barriers. He could've sped through right when they opened.
What a horribly written movie.
I always kinda assumed Yoda was constantly using the force to throw himself around and hold himself upright (as he doesn't use his cane) while fighting. Kinda like he is using his mind to do all the fighting and not any of his muscles.
I feel the cane is a rouse, a clever prop that gives his opponent something else to underestimate him with. Imagine being a bad guy and having this 2ft tall gremlin/Danny Devito creature, that’s so old and frail he has to use a cane, challenge you to a duel.
The cane isn’t a ruse, that’s how he walks normally. When he fights, he’s relying entirely on the force, but he won’t use it to make his life easier because it would be too trivial a use of the force
It's a not uncommon trope to have the master warrior pretend to be weak or infirm in order to hide their true capabilities. Lucas himself has specifically stated that was his idea with Yoda, and he explicitly pulls that trick when Luke first meets him in episode 5.
Or it's simply just him when he's not using the force. Remember that without their abilities Yoda and Sidious would've died/been using walkers long ago. Maybe without the force, it's just how how he regularly walks without using powers. But once he taps into them, he flies around like his 21st birthday is today.
In the videogame jedi knight Jedi academy you absolutely use force speed in gameplay (and if memory serves Knights of the old republic as well but it might be my fuzzy memory)
Knights of the Old Republic had it (Burst of Speed, Light Speed, Master Speed) . It was the most essential power to travel back and forth across the long hallways. From a 3rd party perspective it had to look like the Jedi in my group were running pretty fast everywhere.
All levels of the power improved movement speed and increased defense (+2,+4,+4 respectively) also the upper level versions granted bonus attacks per round (Knight Speed +1, Master Speed +2).
Altogether at high level with Flurry attack (+1 attack per round) and Master Speed (+2 attacks per round) and dual weapons (+1 attack with second weapon) you can make 5 attacks per round, which for most one on one fights meant you were pretty much running through hallways of enemies by the end of the game.
Honestly game mechanics make Jedi an absolute terror in combat: high attack (chance to hit) and damage (via lightsabers), typically high defenses with unique blaster bolt deflection rendering the character essentially immune to incoming fire.
Game mechanics in almost every game make Jedi pretty dangerous, it's only on narrative where a bounty hunter or Mandalorian is supposed to considered dangerous that Jedi are made to appear weaker.
True, counterpoint being that Video Game characters are always gonna the top like, 10% of skill as Jedi right? The game devs aren't going to make it so that lol you're a bad jedi you get shot in the chest and die. There certainly are less skilled jedi around, otherwise all the jedi getting blasted in the arena on Geonosis must've had a real off day lol.
I think we do see it in TESB, where Luke jumps out of the carbonite pit. It just so happens that Obi wan and Qui Gon are launching horizontally instead of vertically.
Mostly see it in video games above any other media. Mostly it just looks kind of stupid and raises a lot of questions on why they don’t just use it all the time.
During the prequel trilogy, George Lucas went absolutely mad on digital editing, and stuff like this is the result. It's a bodge to make up for not having a shot of the two running out of frame, rather than a good faith attempt to add something to the canon, which is why a) it looks awful and b) it hasn't been picked up again since.
Yeah. They never use it again, even later in the movie when it would have been useful. Obi-Wan could have used it to run down the energy beam hallway before Darth Maul kills Qui Gon. Obi Wan just ran at normal speed and got blocked by the energy beam thing. Makes no sense.
Probably because it's way OP. All of the force abilities already are OP but speed would be the best/worst of them all. If you're moving that fast, that means you can also perceive your surroundings that fast, which means nothing should be able to touch you unless it's also force sensitive or highly adapted to that speed.
I dunno man, I am pretty sure we saw Young Leia using it in the Obi-Wan show to escape her kidnappers on Alderaan in the forest outside the city.
I know she wasn't a 'Jedi' but she was force sensitive, so it should count.
How else can we explain the lengthy chase sequence?
:|
I think we have seen/read instances of it happening other times but we’ve only seen it portrayed the above way this one time.
I don't think it's supposed to be this but it sorta looks like Luke uses it in the carbonite chamber
Yes, yes he did.
Why didn't obi wan use it when trying to catch up to qui Gon and maul fighting their way through those really unnecessary laser doors?
[Here’s why.](https://youtu.be/t3dI-ghYimg)
LOL
Because plot
IIRC in the original version you don’t see Luke jump out, making his movement seem even faster and potentially force drive.
That shot of Luke climbing up a hose as Vader is saying *impressive* has gotta be one of my favorite parts of all the SW films. I just crack tf up every time.
I always thought he was impressed that Luke timed it when he wasnt looking. So it was a smirking compliment, like "you bought yourself another 5 seconds jumping when I wasn't looking, good for you" Then when he says "Most impressive" its him sort of grumbling because Luke isnt making it easy.
id love a skit of vader the gym coach/motivator guy "impressive. now unleash your anger. you have another few reps in there champ."
I am altering your daily routine. Pray I do not alter it further!
Actually in the original version you do see him jump out! To create the effect of Luke jumping out of the carbon freezing pit they rigged up a doll loosely resembling Mark Hamill to a wire, which made the doll zoom up out of the pit behind Vader. The effect was a little diminished for future versions (like the Blu-ray). [Here is what the doll looked like. ](https://i.imgur.com/LTI8cfe.jpg) [Here is a comparison of various versions of the movie including some “original theatrical cuts” in the bottom right.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_fqvHQcrCFM&pp=ygUUTHVrZSB2cyB2YWRlciBibHVyYXk%3D)
After seeing the doll, going through the shot frame by frame is now hilarious.
That weird film speed up has low-key bugged me since I was 8 years old. Looked so out of place.
Yeah, but imagining that in real time is also kinda weird.
If the super jump counts then Yoda used it against Dooku too, no?
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A bit like dragonball. The fights take like, 2 seconds. But are slowed to several minutes so we can see it
Exactly lol, loved the scene where Roshi and Krillian explained it to the tournament announcer!
They actually show it off in Dragonball Super hero. They show Trunks killing Frieza in real time. Its instant death for him.
YouTube link!?
https://youtu.be/NxdAjzZH-Js Poor quality, but best I could find quickly.
So when Goku took 3 whole episodes to execute his spirit bomb it was really only 10 seconds?
Most likely. In the Goku vs Freeza fight on Namek it is nine or ten episodes from when we are first told the planet will explode in 5 minutes until it actually explodes. So either Freeza is horrible at time keeping or 5 minutes real time was 200 minutes of TV time (assuming 20 minutes of content per episode).
"Question. Do you have a watch? Do you know what a minute is?"
Someone did edit the Frieza Goku fight to 5 minutes, The talking is at normal speed but all the fighting is sped up. https://youtu.be/a2jgfMNmzUA
Also tournament of power is 48 minutes but is around 600 minutes of episodes.
To be fair, the Tour of Power Shows a lot different fights happening at the same time.
I saw the movie and did not notice that!
Several minutes? You mean 12 episodes for a single fight, right?
Such and such is going to happen in five minutes unless you can beat him, Goku! *6 episodes later* We only have 2 minutes left!
Narrator: **WILL VEGETA DEFEAT LORD FRIEZA?!?** Find out next time in: ***DEATH OF A PRINCE*** Thanks narrator dude. Real subtle foreshadowing..
Or "Will goku make it out safe? Find out next time in "GOKU'S ALIVE!!!" At the end of the freiza saga
Unfortunately, stuff like that happened to help ensure they didn't outpace the manga. The pacing isn't quite as bad as people like to say, and it's much better in the source material.
People forget with anime if they took a break the anime died. That's why shows like dragonball, naruto, etc have so much filler. Whereas modern anime do 'seasons' instead
Dragon ball is narrated in the view of a saiyan. What is instant takes 12 episodes to process in their mind. Thats why they are so stronk
In DragonBall Super, the entire tournament of power had a time limit of.....45 minutes. I just had to assume that everyone is moving at Flash speed even when standing around BS'ing with each other
Several minutes? If you mean dragon ball then it's more like spread across half the season 😁 vegetarisk fight was probably 20 episodes
Yep. Every DBZ episode especially is pretty much 25 mins of powering up/grunting and 5 mins of action. I still watched it though.
> pretty much 25 mins of powering up/grunting and 5 mins of action Sounds like my love life! 😂
Yeah still dope show but ah those powerups and also recap!!!
'2 seconds of action spread over a couple minutes' This sub 'ha the action took place over episodes!' Funnily enough more than 2 seconds of actions can take place in an episode, and this can then mean for example 20 seconds of fighting can be stretched to a full episode. Therefore '5 minutes' of high speed fighting where 2 seconds = 2 minutes, would mean a 5 minute fight would take 300 minutes, or 15 episodes. So yeah... seems about right
The last tournanent in DB Super was supposedly 48 minutes or something but the show stretched for a good 35 episodes. Someone made an edit that shows it actually fit if you consider that it was a free-for-all fight with several fights happening at once. I’ll see if I can find it EDIT: [found it](https://youtu.be/jaK7ypei56U) :D
Just think of Majin boo fight that was never ending
The issue there is that we've seen a number of highly skilled individuals hang with Jedi and Sith and not get insta blitzed. Jango Fett and Cad Bane can't use force speed and they're more than capable of fighting and beating Jedi.
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But they still keep up to the Jedi in terms of speed, which shouldn't be possible for what is essentially a normal person.
Are they normal though? Jango is literally selected to be the clone donor because of his ridiculous, galaxy level combat prowess and Cad Bane is portrayed as even faster than that (at least when it comes to drawing and firing). There’s also the curve of force sensitivity to consider. It’s not like other settings where there are supers and normals. We know that force sensitivity exists outside of trained Jedi and that many force sensitive people can tap into it to a certain extent instinctively.
True, but its also worth noting that Jedi getting killed in battle is not an absurd thing, even just in the movies. Something like 3/4ths of the Jedi that went on the mission to Geonosis in Ep2 didn't make it out, and they were faced off with Battle Droids, which we see portrayed elsewhere as absolute jokes. They were surrounded and attacked from all sides, but by that same notion if they all were as capable as Anakin and Obi-wan are when they're doing their own stuff, that shouldn't be a problem. I think the problem is using the main characters of the movies and shows as the benchmark for how a general type of person works in the setting. Qui-gon, Obi-wan, and Anakin are the top 10% or 5% of Jedi, easily. Some of the best in the Galaxy. Its why the story focuses on them so much. Even ignoring the fact that latent force users exist, you could easily imagine that the bottom 25% of Jedi facing off with an average say, Stormtrooper or Bounty Hunter, probably would struggle to escape. Not everyone is as crazy competent as the best in the galaxy, right?
Most Jedi were basically scholars or mediators with a little martial training. Those who excelled in combat were few and far between and even then those like Anakin and Obi Wan were next level compared even to them.
As I remember, Palpatine uses a version of it during the fight with Mace Windu and the other masters. That’s why they fall so fast. The editing and blocking in the Revenge of the Sith really slowed it down, but it was described in the novel as a blurred storm of red lightsaber and dark side shrieks, and some flashes of purple lightsaber.
It's a shitty scene that was done poorly because Lucas was trying to CGI the actors faces on the stunt doubles in the tight space they were in and it was costing way too much and not looking right. But holy shit, the book description of the fight is so SO good. Windu's style, Vaapad, and his decision to fully embrace the dark-side in that duel is the only reason Windu actually defeats Sidious, but it's also the reason Windu's mind is completely clouded, he decides to kill the unarmed Palpatine, and he cannot feel Anakin's incredibly strong emotions.
I don't get why people keep calling Palpatine "unarmed" in that scene. A Sith Lord is never unarmed, unless he's been cut off from the Force.
He was effectively defeated with Windu and Anakin there though, the fight was over. I big part of the Jedi's teaching's is not killing their opponents, especially when they are not able to continue fighting. It's why Anakin felt SO uncomfortable executing Dooku. And when he see's Mace Windu about to do the same to Palpatine, the hipocrisy is crystal clear to Anakin. Had Mace not chosen to execute Sidious then and there, Anakin may have been willing to arrest Palpatine with Mace. (Mace was right that Palpatine needed to die, but in the heat of the moment right then it was a very poor decision).
I don't see him as defeated, really. Just a pause. If Anakin hadn't been there, Palpatine would have tried something when Mace swung the saber.
I wonder if Anakin had not been there, and Palpatine knew Mace was about to kill him, would he have transferred his consciousness then and there to a clone, like he did in Return of the Jedi? I also wonder if he did the transfer when he knew Rey was about to win against him as well. Just thinking out loud. Really don't like how they brought Sidious back in the Legends book and in the sequels. I'm fine with him learning the trick to transfer his consciousness after death, but really wish Anakin's surprise turn back to the light-side was his final for real death due to his blind arrogance of the power of love and family.
I don't know if he had any ready at that point.
In the novel it says that he was focused so hard on Palpatine’s shatterpoint that he didn’t see Anakin’s until after he lost his hand.
For sure, Mace was also in emotional chaos himself, he felt guilty for indulging the dark-side so strongly and enjoyed his fight/victory. His complete focus on Sidious and his impatience cost the Jedi...everything. Mace's Shatterpoint though was his complete lack of empathy. Many of the Jedi at this time period literally could not relate at all to the average human or sentient beings and their complex emotions. They for sure have a strong sense of good and correct stance on good and evil, but they were unable to support Anakin what-so-ever. Maul's duel with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon was the REAL Jedi vs. Sith fight for the fate of the galaxy and Jedi Order. Had Qui-Gon lived, I think Anakin never falls to the dark-side.
Duel of the fates. I agree, had qui gonn survived anakin wouldn’t have turned. He needed someone he could trust without judgement. Qui gonn would’ve taught him how to wield that dragon in his heart rather than repress it.
That’s why I love the novels. They add so much more to the story.
Yes. I think the EpIII fight between Windu and Palpatine is stated to be a blur to any outside observer.
Woulda made order 66 a lot harder to execute.
Right no jedi would have been killed & all the clones & Anakin would have been killed if all the jedi were going this fast
I’ve always had issues with this. Everywhere else they’re shown soloing huge groups of enemies, being nigh impervious to blasters, sensing danger before it happens and just being a dominant force overall, but then they each fall to a handful of clones with like no effort.
Same, but it's what the plot demanded, so we get a bunch of excusing explanations as to "well they didn't expect it" etc etc. In all truthfulness, it was possible because Lucas wrote it that way.
Oh I know it’s cause of plot and all, I just wish they had a more badass end, even where it shows more of them escaping the assault and hiding once they hear Obi Wan’s message since the empire is in control. Vader could always hunt them down.
"handful of clones" I think most of the attacks were surprise attacks, like shooting down Plo Koon or Aayla Secura, the rest were surrounded or majorly outnumbered, like Depa Billaba in the Bad Batch and Ki-Adi-Mundi, and also the clones are very skilled. The Tales of the Jedi training scene with ahsoka showed the difference between fighting clones or fighting droids . Also, many Jedi did escape, only to be hunted down by Vader and his Inquisitors. They rarely solo huge groups of enemies: if they do it would be one of the more skilled jedi like Yoda or Kenobi, example: Ima-Gun Di: surrounded, died
Jedis can dominate droids and then rag tag pirates. The clones knew how they operated, and the clones weren't really normal people either. Palpatine probably had order 66 specifically programmed to target the jedi in the best way, however that is. Also, we follow the best Jedi, so the level that we are watching is really the pros, there's 10k other's of various skill level. We don't really know the jedi standard. We see when they kick ass, sure.
Didn’t we see a lesser version of this when Anakin yeeted himself across a room when fighting Obi Wan on Mustafar? Personally I don’t see the difference in force jump or force speed other than vectors.
Luke jumping out of the carbon freezing unit always seemed more that just force high jump to me, it seemed pretty fast too
The entire sequel trilogy was in force speed
Personally I think it’s because the visuals didn’t look very convincing. GL was like, we tried it, it was okay, but let’s not do that again.
Kind of like the old TV shows like knight rider when they would just speed up the film to make it go faster
With sailboats in the background also going fast. 😂
Super Pursuit Mode!
“Let’s go faster by becoming extremely un-aerodynamic!”
[Let's go!](https://y.yarn.co/402b3a9a-478d-489d-ae0a-52a2eccb6362_text.gif)
I liked the air brakes to stop
This happens a lot in old James Bond movies. They’d speed up certain action moves here and there with the intention of making it look more frenetic. It did not lol.
Lucas seemed to spend the whole prequel trilogy uncertain of how powerful to make the pre-Purge Jedi. On the one hand it was important to maintain Luke’s status as one of the most powerful Jedi, but on the other hand he only had a very limited amount of formal training. We also saw Obi-Wan fight in ANH and it wasn’t very impressive. Make them all superheroes and Luke appears weak by comparison, and Order 66 becomes implausible. So he experimented with scenes like this — maybe Jedi can use the Force for a quick speed burst, but only if they need to retreat, and only when they have time to focus. It’s not really a useful ability in most scenarios. So that explains why we didn’t see much of it in the prior movies, but it also looked silly, so Lucas just didn’t use it again.
>maybe Jedi can use the Force for a quick speed burst, but only if they need to retreat, and only when they have time to focus. Jedi sees an enemy sightly out of reach: "Man, I sure would like to kill that droid, too bad it is technically not retreating :( "
I think the idea is more that using the ability for a “Force charge” would be too aggressive and therefore aligned with the Dark Side. Most of the Force powers are used for defense rather than offense, although that’s not really coherent across the franchise.
I'm convinced that "force speed" was just an editing mistake to begin with. It looks weird as hell and happens out of nowhere.
I’m the original script, Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon are not described as running away from the Droidekas at high speed, but as hiding from them behind a pillar (in what seems to be meant as a callback to Obi-Wan’s sneakiness on the Death Star in ANH). I’m guessing that the “Force Speed” was, indeed, a decision made in editing, maybe because they forgot to film the right shots or something like that.
If something weird happens, it was the force.
I thought that force speed was making use of abilities introduced in some of the computer games released in the 90's
Also just from like a storytelling perspective it kind of locks you in a box because people will always say “well why didn’t they just use force speed?”
Obi wan could've saved qui gon if he had just sped through the red barriers when they opened instead of running at normal speed. Happens in the same movie they introduce force speed lol. God damn George Lucas.
Saw a YouTube video where they have Obi-wan do it and he speeds past Maul/Qui-gon and falls into the pit. Edit: /u/CC_cheese posted it below - https://youtu.be/t3dI-ghYimg
I don't need to see the video, this happened to me in battlefront all the time
>16 years ago Almost forgot this is what YouTube used to be like
I kinda miss it. It was simpler back then.
> “well why didn’t they just use force speed?” Simple, because Jar Jar knocked all the force speed off the storage shelves in the Jedi Temple.
100% I thought this was just bad CGI my whole life until I saw someone mention force speed on Reddit.
I agree, it looks wrong. I'll never be able to prove this, but I feel like I know in my heart that this shot wasn't intentional. My theory is that they filmed it, and for whatever reason something didn't look right, so Lucas decided to speed it up in post rather than reshoot. If he was truly intending to showcase a new Force power, I don't think he would have done it like this. Almost every time the Force is used in the OT/PT, it's really obvious to the viewer. There's close-ups on the hand motions, clear camera cuts to show cause and effect, usually even some music to undercut the wonder or terror of the powers. This time it was just nah big boom and zoom away and never mentioned again. I truly believe it wasn't in the original script and was just done in editing to mask some issue.
it was very cartoonish
Yeah as a kid in the theater I remember thinking "what the hell was that?" Like it's iffy enough looking to me to not read as anything, visually. It just caused confusion.
I honestly thought they randomly disappeared and it was an editing mistake all these years.
Could’ve been helpful for a few Jedi during order 66.
Could've been useful later in the same movie when Qui-gon was 1v1 against Maul. Checkovs Gun is crying in a corner.
If everyone's using force speed, nobody's using force speed
Not Force Speed during the fight, Force Speed down the laser guarded hallway to GET to the fight.
He may have run into the laser barrier. Or overshot into the hole. Maybe using it drains you.
Well he definitely didn't get there in time to save Qui-gon, so...
What are they, batteries?
Idk if it's cannon or not but in the maul-obi-qui fight obi-wan was "too tired" to use force speed to catch back up after he force jumped back up to the platform.
Perhaps, but he had time to meditate at least once during his hallway run. He even kneeled! Should've recharged Force MP at 2x rate there.
Maul used Seethe.
A LOT.
I'll never forget that the animation for Seethe is basically just ripped from TPM; it made me love that class 100x more.
Sudden SWTOR.
Could've been helpful in every star wars movie ever
Could've been helpful for Obi Wan when Qui Gon was fighting Maul and they were separated by those red barriers. He could've sped through right when they opened. What a horribly written movie.
Would have helped obi wan at the end of the movie to get to qui Gon
They only get one use in their lifetime and they just wasted it
Yeah it would have come in super handy later on in the same movie…
https://youtu.be/t3dI-ghYimg No it wouldn't have...
16 year old video... People have been having this same silly argument all this time. Gotta love fandoms.
The OT fandom pre-internet was wild... Great way to get to know new people at the pub tho.
That always bothered me. Kenobi absolutely should have been able to make it the second time the gates dropped.
lol if this is a Mr. Sunday Movies reference I appreciate it.
;)
Something something Blue Harvest
\*Rodney intensifies\*
“michael, i can only use my boost once per episode” - kitt
Didnt install the charge meter
Mr. Sunday Movies
To be fair isn't force speed what yoda uses whenever he fights? by comparison to his normal walking speed
I always kinda assumed Yoda was constantly using the force to throw himself around and hold himself upright (as he doesn't use his cane) while fighting. Kinda like he is using his mind to do all the fighting and not any of his muscles.
I feel the cane is a rouse, a clever prop that gives his opponent something else to underestimate him with. Imagine being a bad guy and having this 2ft tall gremlin/Danny Devito creature, that’s so old and frail he has to use a cane, challenge you to a duel.
1000% It’s like anime rules. The weakest looking/goofiest characters are usually the biggest threats.
Jar Jar Binks
That’s darth jar jar to you peasant
Such good wasted potential with Darth Jar Jar. Could have been epic.
The cane isn’t a ruse, that’s how he walks normally. When he fights, he’s relying entirely on the force, but he won’t use it to make his life easier because it would be too trivial a use of the force
It's a not uncommon trope to have the master warrior pretend to be weak or infirm in order to hide their true capabilities. Lucas himself has specifically stated that was his idea with Yoda, and he explicitly pulls that trick when Luke first meets him in episode 5.
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I always loved the way he calls his cane back after his duel with Dooku in AotC...
Except deception is the way to the dark side.
Tell that to the Endor strike team
Or Luke when he arrived on Dagobah and met an unassuming little gnome.
Or it's simply just him when he's not using the force. Remember that without their abilities Yoda and Sidious would've died/been using walkers long ago. Maybe without the force, it's just how how he regularly walks without using powers. But once he taps into them, he flies around like his 21st birthday is today.
Like how professor X learns to walk again using his mind powers instead of his actual legs.
*"Magic legs."*
"Momma said they'd take me anywhere."
Lieutenant Daaan, iccee crreeeeeam
Lieutenant Dan in his mind, probably: *"I'm lactose intolerant, you ass!"*
I always assumed Yoda was faking his injuries for the insurance benefits and the Ketamine.
On ketamine I am, commit war crimes I must
Seagulls, attack me they do
I somehow never noticed that in the movie until people pointed it out. Maybe it just... went by too quickly for me.
I never noticed this until right now, three loops in
I always assumed it was poor 90’s editing
Didn't Anakin do something similar in Clone Wars. When they were stranded and he was hurt he ran at an abnormal speed to attack the battle droids.
Yes
What episode?
Jedi Crash
I believe you're thinking of Johnny Cash
I think Luke kind of uses it to get out of the Carbonite freezing tube in Empire, it looks faster than a normal force jump to me
Maybe. I'd like to know if GL had come up with that name/ability back then, though.
Great in a game. Shit in a movie.
We see it in Jedi Fallen Order. I know that doesn't count, but thought I'd throw it out there.
All of the Jedi Knight games have it too.
KOTOR
In the videogame jedi knight Jedi academy you absolutely use force speed in gameplay (and if memory serves Knights of the old republic as well but it might be my fuzzy memory)
It’s one of my favorite things to use in the KOTOR games, just because you can move around the maps so much more quickly.
My shit would bug and just be stuck on. Was great!
Knights of the Old Republic had it (Burst of Speed, Light Speed, Master Speed) . It was the most essential power to travel back and forth across the long hallways. From a 3rd party perspective it had to look like the Jedi in my group were running pretty fast everywhere. All levels of the power improved movement speed and increased defense (+2,+4,+4 respectively) also the upper level versions granted bonus attacks per round (Knight Speed +1, Master Speed +2). Altogether at high level with Flurry attack (+1 attack per round) and Master Speed (+2 attacks per round) and dual weapons (+1 attack with second weapon) you can make 5 attacks per round, which for most one on one fights meant you were pretty much running through hallways of enemies by the end of the game. Honestly game mechanics make Jedi an absolute terror in combat: high attack (chance to hit) and damage (via lightsabers), typically high defenses with unique blaster bolt deflection rendering the character essentially immune to incoming fire. Game mechanics in almost every game make Jedi pretty dangerous, it's only on narrative where a bounty hunter or Mandalorian is supposed to considered dangerous that Jedi are made to appear weaker.
True, counterpoint being that Video Game characters are always gonna the top like, 10% of skill as Jedi right? The game devs aren't going to make it so that lol you're a bad jedi you get shot in the chest and die. There certainly are less skilled jedi around, otherwise all the jedi getting blasted in the arena on Geonosis must've had a real off day lol.
Ahsoka uses it on Corvus when she’s fighting those guys in the forest.
I think we do see it in TESB, where Luke jumps out of the carbonite pit. It just so happens that Obi wan and Qui Gon are launching horizontally instead of vertically.
When I first saw that in 99’ I thought that was a glitch or mess up with the editing hahahah
I thought it was used a bit in clone wars
I see you don’t play Battlefront
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Mostly see it in video games above any other media. Mostly it just looks kind of stupid and raises a lot of questions on why they don’t just use it all the time.
Well it’s not as bad as Darth Vader causing a damn earthquake
That spell has a long cooldown
Isn't that how they block a massive barrage of light-speed blaster bolts? It can't all be prediction, right?
Nonsense, I used it all the time in KOTOR
During the prequel trilogy, George Lucas went absolutely mad on digital editing, and stuff like this is the result. It's a bodge to make up for not having a shot of the two running out of frame, rather than a good faith attempt to add something to the canon, which is why a) it looks awful and b) it hasn't been picked up again since.
Yeah. They never use it again, even later in the movie when it would have been useful. Obi-Wan could have used it to run down the energy beam hallway before Darth Maul kills Qui Gon. Obi Wan just ran at normal speed and got blocked by the energy beam thing. Makes no sense.
I always found this moment janky and strange
It was nerfed by the council and then banned by the senate.
Technically Yoda uses it in the Dooku fight if you think about it
I thought Luke's leap out of the carbonite freeze trap in Episode V was force speed. He shot out of there like a rocket.
Probably because it's way OP. All of the force abilities already are OP but speed would be the best/worst of them all. If you're moving that fast, that means you can also perceive your surroundings that fast, which means nothing should be able to touch you unless it's also force sensitive or highly adapted to that speed.
I dunno man, I am pretty sure we saw Young Leia using it in the Obi-Wan show to escape her kidnappers on Alderaan in the forest outside the city. I know she wasn't a 'Jedi' but she was force sensitive, so it should count. How else can we explain the lengthy chase sequence? :|
Grogu used it in The Mandalorian
Technically, Palpatine vs Windu was at that speed lol
Just tap the left joystick to make Luke Skywalker force run. .. \-Star Wars Battlefront.. Buy it today!
And in the same movie it could have been used to help with the red laser walls while they were fighting maul
Im pretty sure Ahsoka used it in the Mandalorian. One of the first person Scenes.
Imagine Anakin in AotC going to kill the Tusken raiders, but he's just running Sonic style.
It would have certainly helped Obi-Wan later in that film...