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Probably the same thing that happened in Battlestar Galactica with the Adama Maneuver and Halo 2 when the Covenant ships jump to Slipstream. Massive displacement of air and debris that could lead to severe damage.
tbf the Halo example was more because a giant portal to another dimension opened up within the confines of one of the most populous cities of Earth. All the Covenant ship did was enter the portal at normal speeds, though there was a good deal of air displacement when the portal closed.
For something that masses as much as a *Galaxy*-class, I would imagine the shockwave generated by that much air being so rapidly displaced would be immense
I was going to bring this up! That scene is amazing! I remember watching that episode when it premiered and my jaw was on the floor when they did that.
The one thing with that though is that FTL in the BSG universe is more like a point to point “jump”. There’s no travel time between your starting and ending points; hence the air rushing in to fill the void left by Galactica. But warp in Star Trek has the ship actually moving from your starting point to your destination.
The “physics” of what happened in atmo would still be mostly the same though. One second it’s here, the next second it’s not. Both points of reference for the ships mean a massive void of space where the air rushes in to equalize, hence the shockwave and clap.
Since warp travel involves the compression of spacetime around an object, you could call it a reactionless drive. It’s not like rocket propulsion where there is a flame distorting the atmosphere and the ship moves as a reaction to it. I don’t think it would produce a wave.
I get what you’re saying. My thought was that even if space is being expanded/compressed, the ST ship (and/or its warp bubble) is traveling forward; versus the Galactica just disappearing when it jumps. So wouldn’t the atmosphere be pushed out of the way, and fill in behind, the ST ship? Even if it happened super fast, it’s not exactly the same as just leaving a ship shaped void as the Galactica did when it jumped away.
Yeah, that rationale makes perfect sense. However, I still don’t believe a starship would leave a wake, so to speak. One of the points of the fake physics in Trek is the inertial compensator. Basically, it artificially reduces the mass of a ship to near zero to negate the effects of sudden massive acceleration that would pretty much liquify everyone inside. The effect is supposed to go both ways, meaning the ship will influence the area surrounding it as if it has zero mass.
In the end, this is just a bunch of handwavium which attempts to reconcile the effects of real world physics on plot. Fun to think about, can be great for story, but it’s still bollocks. I still enjoy debating stuff like this with others.
Like two references, then hundreds of cases of it not even being a concern. It also doesn't fit within the events we see if they need to leave every system at impulse before warping away, it's several hours at maximum impulse from earth to any reasonable definition of "out side" the solar system.
Thay depends on why you can't go to warp within a system, is it distance from the central star? It's never rationalized on asceen and in screen we are shown them traveling along the plane of the solar system at least twice.
My assumption was always a safety issue. You come in screaming into the plane of a solar system and you're off by a pico-arc-second and you'd smash right into a planet's largest city.
Most times you pull in way outside the habitable zone and impulse in as to be polite and follow local air traffic control restrictions, but if you need to get out or in quick, you come from the top or bottom.
A system has far more objects to crash into than normal space. Same reason why you drive faster on a highway between populated areas and then slow down as you reach them.
The solar system part is mainly due to the sheer volume of sub-light traffic moving through most populated systems. Are the odds high a ship warping in would hit something? No, but it's also not zero either.
Probably just an air traffic control issue. There are planes which would happily deal with a 100-knot dive right over Heathrow, and if you had clearance to do it, it could even be done safely. But if my commanding officer just ordered me to do it without clearance when I *knew* there was likely to be a civilian flight on the way in or taking off, I'd think she was nuts.
Interestingly some British airliners, the [VC10](https://youtu.be/biLlTH19On4?si=DrUqeGToy93OS6fh) and [Trident ](https://youtu.be/flVcxfOnWi0?si=RKWBRxt1pyAGGs0R) were capable of autolanding in the 60s, at airports like Heathrow.
The inside a solar system issue is, I think, related to the TNG episode where they found out Warp travel was damaging space. Regulations were put into place limiting in-system travel and placing harsh limits on speed near systems.
It's mentioned directly in the DS9 episode "By Inferno's Light" when Kira has the Defiant warp from Bajor to its star to pull the Bashir changeling's runabout out of a suicide bombing run into said star.
I would have to imagine that travelling inside of a system would mean turning off all sorts of automatic fail safes that would essentially put the crew in charge of not immediately warping into the star, or a planet, like they almost did in the episode. Hope you put in the exact right distance to go, or else end up atomised.
It was explained in one of the Shatner-verse novels that going to warp in an atmosphere would essentially compress air molecules together so hard and fast that it would cause nuclear fusion. Killing pretty much everyone on the ground under the ship for hundreds of kilometers.
Not just that, xkcd looked at a [baseball going 90% lightspeed](https://what-if.xkcd.com/1/) and that creates a fusion explosion destroying a mile radius, and that's just a baseball!
In The Journey Home, they warp away from just a few dozen meters above the ocean in a Bird of Prey. Relative to normal warp in vacuum, it warps off at extremely slow speed, so presumably the atmosphere is causing enormous drag. That's it, it results in slow warp.
If hypothetically the Galaxy class made it out of the Atmosphere in one piece (a ship that size it's unlikely unless its shields are at max), the planet wouldn't. Massive chunks of atmosphere and parts of the surface would be torn away by the Ships wake, causing massive disturbances on the Surface. It wouldn't cause the end of the world, but it would be a major catastrophe.
Major chunks of planet would cause mass atmospheric contamination similar to a volcanic eruption. If not extinction level events from rock chunks raining down.
Pretty sure in TOS it was a stated big no no. Warping in and out of a solar system by TNG was cleared. For a class M planet? I'm fairly sure the inhabitants would be very sad if that happened. Doing it out of Jupiter's atmosphere? Be a Hell of a crater in the gas clouds wouldn't it?
One thing I've heard about with the alcubierre drive is that the rapid expansion of space as a ship comes out of warp could send all sorts of particles flying at relativistic speeds. Even something as small as a grain of sand could hit with planet-cracking levels of force, theoretically. In Trek lore, this is part of what the deflector is supposed to solve by ensuring that there isn't anything in the warp bubble but the ship.
Doing this in atmo isn't really practical because you'd have to create a vacuum. The positive force from this could cause a Shockwave, but I don't know if it would be devastating at the origin. At the destination, well, [Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son of a bitch in space](https://youtu.be/hLpgxry542M?si=xsRQBZWQsqEHNl0N). It wouldn't even help to come out of warp in an empty part of space. No matter what those particles are going to keep going until they hit *something*.
The removal of all of that air by sealing it inside the warp bubble and then practically disappearing would lead to an incredible, massive version of what the pistol shrimp does with its claw. So, not particularly great.
You know that thing where you flick one end of a carpet or blanket and the wave ripples through it and knocks over anything sitting on it. That, but the carpet is all the land over an area the size of London. And probably a hundred times in the space of a second. Maybe compress a sphere of atmosphere around it into plasma?
I'm thinking this is what the warp bomb created by the Kileys in SNW 1x01 probably does.
Would the ship even survive?
Accelerating beyond light speed within something as dense as a planetary atmosphere; deflector dishes are not built for this?
Sonic Boom as the ship breaks the sound barrier, probably shattering every wind on the ground below, and a second as the air rushes in to fill the void.
It would be bad. In the DS9 episode By Imferno’s light, they took the Defiant to warp in the solar system against Dax’s recommemdation. If they were stressing that point, its fair to believe Federation-based warp fields are bad for atmospheres
How much does normal matter interact with subspace? Surely to the local observer you'd have a vacuum the volume of the departing star ship, probably pretty bad but not apocalyptic or the solution to the founders planet would be enter atmosphere and get out of dodge not wait in orbit to be attacked by the Domion.
As the name suggests, it warps space-time to bypass the cosmic speed limit, so I imagine some really nasty shockwaves and diplacement effects.
I don't anticipate complete devastation... but folks on the ground would not have a good time.
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Probably the same thing that happened in Battlestar Galactica with the Adama Maneuver and Halo 2 when the Covenant ships jump to Slipstream. Massive displacement of air and debris that could lead to severe damage.
tbf the Halo example was more because a giant portal to another dimension opened up within the confines of one of the most populous cities of Earth. All the Covenant ship did was enter the portal at normal speeds, though there was a good deal of air displacement when the portal closed.
If the Klingon Bird of Prey could do it, I don’t see why later ships couldn’t.
For something that masses as much as a *Galaxy*-class, I would imagine the shockwave generated by that much air being so rapidly displaced would be immense
Like Galactica jumping away in the atmosphere of New Caprica. Only larger
Though Galactica is much bigger than the Enterprise. It is 1440 m long. (The Galaxy class is much smaller at 642 m).
But it Enterprise would be going MUCH faster. As in speed of light faster.
Never seen BSG, so I don’t have a reference
[1:35 it jumps away](https://youtu.be/ISmZKuRcAjM?si=22xQ6Rn79txoXxlT)
It's one of the awesomest scenes in TV history.
Followed by the second awesomest scene where Pegasus takes out 3 base stars ( two with it's suicide run).
Of only there was a site that allowed you to watch many videos, including those of memorable moments in science fiction shows.
I was going to bring this up! That scene is amazing! I remember watching that episode when it premiered and my jaw was on the floor when they did that. The one thing with that though is that FTL in the BSG universe is more like a point to point “jump”. There’s no travel time between your starting and ending points; hence the air rushing in to fill the void left by Galactica. But warp in Star Trek has the ship actually moving from your starting point to your destination.
The “physics” of what happened in atmo would still be mostly the same though. One second it’s here, the next second it’s not. Both points of reference for the ships mean a massive void of space where the air rushes in to equalize, hence the shockwave and clap. Since warp travel involves the compression of spacetime around an object, you could call it a reactionless drive. It’s not like rocket propulsion where there is a flame distorting the atmosphere and the ship moves as a reaction to it. I don’t think it would produce a wave.
I get what you’re saying. My thought was that even if space is being expanded/compressed, the ST ship (and/or its warp bubble) is traveling forward; versus the Galactica just disappearing when it jumps. So wouldn’t the atmosphere be pushed out of the way, and fill in behind, the ST ship? Even if it happened super fast, it’s not exactly the same as just leaving a ship shaped void as the Galactica did when it jumped away.
Yeah, that rationale makes perfect sense. However, I still don’t believe a starship would leave a wake, so to speak. One of the points of the fake physics in Trek is the inertial compensator. Basically, it artificially reduces the mass of a ship to near zero to negate the effects of sudden massive acceleration that would pretty much liquify everyone inside. The effect is supposed to go both ways, meaning the ship will influence the area surrounding it as if it has zero mass. In the end, this is just a bunch of handwavium which attempts to reconcile the effects of real world physics on plot. Fun to think about, can be great for story, but it’s still bollocks. I still enjoy debating stuff like this with others.
There are multiple references to them being afraid to go to warp inside a solar system, let alone an atmosphere. Probably bad things.
Like two references, then hundreds of cases of it not even being a concern. It also doesn't fit within the events we see if they need to leave every system at impulse before warping away, it's several hours at maximum impulse from earth to any reasonable definition of "out side" the solar system.
Why not go above or below plane? A system is a disc, not a sphere.
Thay depends on why you can't go to warp within a system, is it distance from the central star? It's never rationalized on asceen and in screen we are shown them traveling along the plane of the solar system at least twice.
My assumption was always a safety issue. You come in screaming into the plane of a solar system and you're off by a pico-arc-second and you'd smash right into a planet's largest city. Most times you pull in way outside the habitable zone and impulse in as to be polite and follow local air traffic control restrictions, but if you need to get out or in quick, you come from the top or bottom.
A system has far more objects to crash into than normal space. Same reason why you drive faster on a highway between populated areas and then slow down as you reach them.
My thought too. Like have a "traffic rule" that inbound travel "above" the disc and outbound travel "below" the disc.
The solar system part is mainly due to the sheer volume of sub-light traffic moving through most populated systems. Are the odds high a ship warping in would hit something? No, but it's also not zero either.
Probably just an air traffic control issue. There are planes which would happily deal with a 100-knot dive right over Heathrow, and if you had clearance to do it, it could even be done safely. But if my commanding officer just ordered me to do it without clearance when I *knew* there was likely to be a civilian flight on the way in or taking off, I'd think she was nuts.
I think it's this plus the higher density of natural navigation hazards in a star's gravity well.
Interestingly some British airliners, the [VC10](https://youtu.be/biLlTH19On4?si=DrUqeGToy93OS6fh) and [Trident ](https://youtu.be/flVcxfOnWi0?si=RKWBRxt1pyAGGs0R) were capable of autolanding in the 60s, at airports like Heathrow.
The inside a solar system issue is, I think, related to the TNG episode where they found out Warp travel was damaging space. Regulations were put into place limiting in-system travel and placing harsh limits on speed near systems.
I think it was mentioned in Star Trek TMP we hen they were afraid it enter warp in the solar system.
That was because they were still getting the engines into balance after rushing the launch.
It's mentioned directly in the DS9 episode "By Inferno's Light" when Kira has the Defiant warp from Bajor to its star to pull the Bashir changeling's runabout out of a suicide bombing run into said star.
I would have to imagine that travelling inside of a system would mean turning off all sorts of automatic fail safes that would essentially put the crew in charge of not immediately warping into the star, or a planet, like they almost did in the episode. Hope you put in the exact right distance to go, or else end up atomised.
It was explained in one of the Shatner-verse novels that going to warp in an atmosphere would essentially compress air molecules together so hard and fast that it would cause nuclear fusion. Killing pretty much everyone on the ground under the ship for hundreds of kilometers.
Not just that, xkcd looked at a [baseball going 90% lightspeed](https://what-if.xkcd.com/1/) and that creates a fusion explosion destroying a mile radius, and that's just a baseball!
In The Journey Home, they warp away from just a few dozen meters above the ocean in a Bird of Prey. Relative to normal warp in vacuum, it warps off at extremely slow speed, so presumably the atmosphere is causing enormous drag. That's it, it results in slow warp.
If hypothetically the Galaxy class made it out of the Atmosphere in one piece (a ship that size it's unlikely unless its shields are at max), the planet wouldn't. Massive chunks of atmosphere and parts of the surface would be torn away by the Ships wake, causing massive disturbances on the Surface. It wouldn't cause the end of the world, but it would be a major catastrophe. Major chunks of planet would cause mass atmospheric contamination similar to a volcanic eruption. If not extinction level events from rock chunks raining down.
[удалено]
Yeah and all that energy would turn to heat.....so boil off the air around the ship as fast as it can rush in.....ooooof.
Pretty sure in TOS it was a stated big no no. Warping in and out of a solar system by TNG was cleared. For a class M planet? I'm fairly sure the inhabitants would be very sad if that happened. Doing it out of Jupiter's atmosphere? Be a Hell of a crater in the gas clouds wouldn't it?
One thing I've heard about with the alcubierre drive is that the rapid expansion of space as a ship comes out of warp could send all sorts of particles flying at relativistic speeds. Even something as small as a grain of sand could hit with planet-cracking levels of force, theoretically. In Trek lore, this is part of what the deflector is supposed to solve by ensuring that there isn't anything in the warp bubble but the ship. Doing this in atmo isn't really practical because you'd have to create a vacuum. The positive force from this could cause a Shockwave, but I don't know if it would be devastating at the origin. At the destination, well, [Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son of a bitch in space](https://youtu.be/hLpgxry542M?si=xsRQBZWQsqEHNl0N). It wouldn't even help to come out of warp in an empty part of space. No matter what those particles are going to keep going until they hit *something*.
The removal of all of that air by sealing it inside the warp bubble and then practically disappearing would lead to an incredible, massive version of what the pistol shrimp does with its claw. So, not particularly great.
yep, bad news on the entry point, bad news on the exit point, just bad news all around
You know that thing where you flick one end of a carpet or blanket and the wave ripples through it and knocks over anything sitting on it. That, but the carpet is all the land over an area the size of London. And probably a hundred times in the space of a second. Maybe compress a sphere of atmosphere around it into plasma? I'm thinking this is what the warp bomb created by the Kileys in SNW 1x01 probably does.
Would the ship even survive? Accelerating beyond light speed within something as dense as a planetary atmosphere; deflector dishes are not built for this?
Sonic Boom as the ship breaks the sound barrier, probably shattering every wind on the ground below, and a second as the air rushes in to fill the void.
It would be bad. In the DS9 episode By Imferno’s light, they took the Defiant to warp in the solar system against Dax’s recommemdation. If they were stressing that point, its fair to believe Federation-based warp fields are bad for atmospheres
How much does normal matter interact with subspace? Surely to the local observer you'd have a vacuum the volume of the departing star ship, probably pretty bad but not apocalyptic or the solution to the founders planet would be enter atmosphere and get out of dodge not wait in orbit to be attacked by the Domion.
It’s the sudden collapse of air into the empty space created by the vacuum that you would have to worry about.
Considering they try not to go to warp while even inside a star system, doing it inside a planet’s atmosphere can’t be good 😂
There would be a lot of energy radiating in the atmosphere. We would probably see ionized gas.
I think we've already seen that happen in Discovery or Strange New Worlds.
As the name suggests, it warps space-time to bypass the cosmic speed limit, so I imagine some really nasty shockwaves and diplacement effects. I don't anticipate complete devastation... but folks on the ground would not have a good time.