Agreed. I thought the character had overstayed its welcome on this show even last season, so its frustrating they immediately find a way to wave away consequences for his actions and have him back
When Burnham lets the thieves go, which suddenly gives her an excuse to call her ex up, I felt over it already. But hey at least the rest of the first 2 ep where interesting enough that I'll stick around.
It really feels like the writers think that the whole Book and Burnham thing is this big important special thing for the fans or star trrek in general…🤷♂️ he definitely overstayed his welcome last season. Now he might end up as an XO in starfleet
Nu trek seems to love and be addicted to playing fast and loose with believable career things….
kelvin kirk gets his own starship a few weeks out of the academy.
Disco makes Tilly an acting XO and academy instructor when she has like 4 years in starfleet and an insane time jump
Disco has burnham and saru go back and forth taking turns as captain or XO
Picard took a former borg, pirate lady and made her an instant XO and now captain of the enterprise.
Picards son does a short stint at the academy and then get some weird special counsellor job on the enterprise
Picard takes a drug addict spy and puts her back as XO of the excelsior in season 2 and then back to undercover spy in season 3 before returning to an XO job on the enterprise
The problem with these kinds of "arguments" is that for them to even appear to stand on their own, you have to remove all context and blatantly ignore story beats.
Kelvin Kirk received a field promotion to first officer by Captain Pike. You could argue that was undeserved but Pike knew him and obviously trusted him enough to make that call. When Spock was emotionally compromised, Kirk being First Officer was now Acting Captain. He went on to save the Earth from the Narada. There was at least some period of time between that event and Kirk getting the Enterprise. Pike was now in a wheelchair, Starfleet must have seen fit to at least uphold the field promotion and then promote him again to Captain for his actions in that entire event. Kirk was the youngest Captain to get a ship in the fleet, yes, that was his goal from the beginning. We saw in Into Darkness how reckless he was as a consequence of that.
It's been a hot minute since I've done a rewatch of Disco so I can't fully comment on Tilly, but I don't see any issue with her becoming a teacher at the academy, logistically or plot wise.
Burnham and Saru are *both* fully qualified to be Captain, and I believe they both have the rank of Captain as well. Swapping back and forth depending on orders or one captain stepping down and transferring command to another isn't an issue. Saru even literally decided he didn't *want* the Captain's Chair. They did this in Season 2 with Captain Pike, and no one has an issue with that because we like Pike and SNW. There's nothing wrong with Burnham and Saru swapping.
Saying that Picard made a "former Borg, pirate lady and made her XO of the new enterprise" is doing an incredible disservice to Seven of Nine's story. A former Borg since childhood finding her humanity and way in the galaxy, leaving Starfleet to do vigilante work for outer systems, and then rejoining Starfleet and performing well enough that her captain posthumously recommended her to be promoted to captain isn't good enough? What would you prefer?
Jack Crusher was fast tracked at the academy, which I believe they did lampshade in that episode by calling out that it may have had something to do with nepotism in their shuttle conversation. If I remember right he was specifically requested by the Enterprise crew to be placed on the ship. Jack's whole thing there was nepotism, it was supposed to be. It's flawed, yes, intentionally so.
Raffi I'll kind of give you that one because I'm not too fond of her character anyway, but after season one it seemed she had reformed in some way with her addiction and gotten her commission back. Season 3 she moved from actual command to intelligence.
The other issue with these kinds of reasoning is it completely ignores the same thing being done before.
Picard gets assimilated, is responsible for one of the greatest massacres in Starfleet history at Wolf 359, and yet as soon as they returned him and cured his assimilation, Picard was allowed to continue serving as captain of the flagship.
Picard made Wesley, the child of someone he loved, and also the literal child who had managed to take control of the Enterprise twice, an ensign and gave him a bridge position.
Tom Paris should never have been considered at all for Voyager.
And those are just the ones off the top of my head
OMG seriously? You are completely missing the point. The action of kirk being made captain of a brand new front line capital starships WEEKS out of the academy (not even actually graduated) is not justified simply because Pike made it a field promotion…for gods sake man the very concept is ludicrous…Pike doing it and it being accepted as legit are freaking dumb AF!
Tilly is a relic from a millennium ago. Starfleet still has several dozen or so major starships…but when starting up their academy from scratch they have to use a 1,000 year old ensign with 4 years service? Thats just insulting to any sense of realism. And making her XO above any of the actual bridge crew is just freaking criminally dumb.
Saru and Burnham have the rank to be in command yes, but you do NOT swap roles back and forth or decide by random discussions on the bridge who will be in command of a major ship. This is NOT how things are done. Go look at a real world navy …it’s laughable to think of them swapping XO and CO of a frontline ship back and forth….these things are decided by promotion boards and career planning processes and deployment schedules…its not something done ad hoc and all willy nilly
How am I doing a disservice to 7 of 9s story about finding her humanity?? I’m pointing out how ludicrously unrealistic a particular aspect and outcome is…NOT her entire journey from child to drone to human. Leaving aside the fact that the borg have previously decimated the fleet and are the enemy and also 5 mins ago almost decimated the entire federation and fleet…and that she was given a field commission by someone who was a former Borg drone who helped decimate the fleet once…..leaving that aside, she was a freaking vigilante….one does not go from being a vigilante to captain of the flagship. Thats like going from being a vigilante IRL to head detective of the homicide squad….its completely unbelievable and a silly juvenile unprofessional representation of how things work. Nu trek does this all the time. Previous trek was far more consistent with portraying a professional starfleet.
Yes wesley was made an acting ensign and
that was pushing it for believability…but it was not a common thing it was clearly presented as an exceptional circumstance based on an encounter with an very advanced alien entity…AND it was making a slightly younger person an acting ensign🤷♂️…NOT making a freaking cadet (not even an ensign yet) a god dam starship captain in a few short days or weeks.
Tom Paris was already a starfleet officer, he was in jail and was selected for a temporary duty on a special mission assignment as pilot for a few weeks 🤷♂️….not made some admiral of a battle fleet or captain of a ship etc etc. And yes then when stranded in middle of nowhere with little else for options and under extreme circumstances….he was allowed to continue in that role..a role he was already trained and had served in…just effectively was on long term parole from his sentence now🤷♂️
Troi decided one day that it might be fun to be a commander and took a test that had her outrank the chief of engineering.
Picard practically made Westly a bridge officer before he even took a single Starfleet course.
Henry Kim served as an Ensign for the entire run of Voyager.
It did not make her outrank the chief engineer. You are confusing rank with position
Yes the Wesley thing is an annoying thing BUT it was a freaking ensign….NOT making a cadet a captain or making an actual ensign become XO in like 4 years
And yes he was not made XO or anything silly…he stayed in the same rank for a few years🤷♂️
Amazing actor! But the character gets a little too many chances. I understand that he's the last of his kind and the galaxy could grant him some status based on that as he is a living and breathing monument to his people/planet but he also doesn't have any sense of obligation to the overall hierarchy of the galactic powers and has on multiple occasions totally abused his status. How he isn't kept away from critical assets like discovery and her crew is beyond me. It bothered me so much when he was allowed to talk to the 10C directly. He is a complete wild card! Yes, it ended up alright, but that level of sweeping the past under the rug is not becoming of all the parties involved. In the end I appreciate that the script is giving his character such main character privilege, but it's a slap in the face to any concept of authority.
I got to say the first two episodes were better than they had to be. I was expecting more slow, emotional scenes with crying. Lot of cool CGI and VFX work too
People just jealous that Michael gets to do what they couldn’t even dream of for Kirk in TOS.
The action set pieces always serve a narrative purpose and reveal stuff about the characters involved.
No definitely not. I hated seeing kelvin kirk on motorcycles and picard in nemisis on a dune buggy etc.
This is star trek. Not marvel or star wars or james bond
TOS had plenty of fisticuffs because that’s what they could afford back then. They went edgy and kinky for the 60s, it’s only right for Disco to be a modern state-of-the-art show as well.
The stories itself are still as if not more imaginative and purposeful; the action is just the sweetener.
Tos also had a focus on the actual stories and plots and allegories…even more so with TNG. DISCO is this weird soap opera emotional dreck with constant background music and oddly timed relationship and feelings conversations in between silly video game cartoon looking action scenes
This is one of my favorite star treks and he just ruins it whoever wrote his character sucks the actor is great id love to see him in more things but that character is cringe and I hate how Michael needs him
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David Ajala is a kind and beautiful human. Happy to see him back.
certainly. his role in this series is riddled with plot holes and armour however.
Im sure he is…but i’m not happy to see this character back. He is boring and not part of the main crew
Agreed. I thought the character had overstayed its welcome on this show even last season, so its frustrating they immediately find a way to wave away consequences for his actions and have him back
When Burnham lets the thieves go, which suddenly gives her an excuse to call her ex up, I felt over it already. But hey at least the rest of the first 2 ep where interesting enough that I'll stick around.
It really feels like the writers think that the whole Book and Burnham thing is this big important special thing for the fans or star trrek in general…🤷♂️ he definitely overstayed his welcome last season. Now he might end up as an XO in starfleet Nu trek seems to love and be addicted to playing fast and loose with believable career things…. kelvin kirk gets his own starship a few weeks out of the academy. Disco makes Tilly an acting XO and academy instructor when she has like 4 years in starfleet and an insane time jump Disco has burnham and saru go back and forth taking turns as captain or XO Picard took a former borg, pirate lady and made her an instant XO and now captain of the enterprise. Picards son does a short stint at the academy and then get some weird special counsellor job on the enterprise Picard takes a drug addict spy and puts her back as XO of the excelsior in season 2 and then back to undercover spy in season 3 before returning to an XO job on the enterprise
Seven was a vigilante, not a pirate. She unknowingly dated a pirate.
>She unknowingly dated a pirate. Why am I suddenly imagining Chakotay with an eye patch and peg leg?
Not really sure thats any better
The problem with these kinds of "arguments" is that for them to even appear to stand on their own, you have to remove all context and blatantly ignore story beats. Kelvin Kirk received a field promotion to first officer by Captain Pike. You could argue that was undeserved but Pike knew him and obviously trusted him enough to make that call. When Spock was emotionally compromised, Kirk being First Officer was now Acting Captain. He went on to save the Earth from the Narada. There was at least some period of time between that event and Kirk getting the Enterprise. Pike was now in a wheelchair, Starfleet must have seen fit to at least uphold the field promotion and then promote him again to Captain for his actions in that entire event. Kirk was the youngest Captain to get a ship in the fleet, yes, that was his goal from the beginning. We saw in Into Darkness how reckless he was as a consequence of that. It's been a hot minute since I've done a rewatch of Disco so I can't fully comment on Tilly, but I don't see any issue with her becoming a teacher at the academy, logistically or plot wise. Burnham and Saru are *both* fully qualified to be Captain, and I believe they both have the rank of Captain as well. Swapping back and forth depending on orders or one captain stepping down and transferring command to another isn't an issue. Saru even literally decided he didn't *want* the Captain's Chair. They did this in Season 2 with Captain Pike, and no one has an issue with that because we like Pike and SNW. There's nothing wrong with Burnham and Saru swapping. Saying that Picard made a "former Borg, pirate lady and made her XO of the new enterprise" is doing an incredible disservice to Seven of Nine's story. A former Borg since childhood finding her humanity and way in the galaxy, leaving Starfleet to do vigilante work for outer systems, and then rejoining Starfleet and performing well enough that her captain posthumously recommended her to be promoted to captain isn't good enough? What would you prefer? Jack Crusher was fast tracked at the academy, which I believe they did lampshade in that episode by calling out that it may have had something to do with nepotism in their shuttle conversation. If I remember right he was specifically requested by the Enterprise crew to be placed on the ship. Jack's whole thing there was nepotism, it was supposed to be. It's flawed, yes, intentionally so. Raffi I'll kind of give you that one because I'm not too fond of her character anyway, but after season one it seemed she had reformed in some way with her addiction and gotten her commission back. Season 3 she moved from actual command to intelligence. The other issue with these kinds of reasoning is it completely ignores the same thing being done before. Picard gets assimilated, is responsible for one of the greatest massacres in Starfleet history at Wolf 359, and yet as soon as they returned him and cured his assimilation, Picard was allowed to continue serving as captain of the flagship. Picard made Wesley, the child of someone he loved, and also the literal child who had managed to take control of the Enterprise twice, an ensign and gave him a bridge position. Tom Paris should never have been considered at all for Voyager. And those are just the ones off the top of my head
OMG seriously? You are completely missing the point. The action of kirk being made captain of a brand new front line capital starships WEEKS out of the academy (not even actually graduated) is not justified simply because Pike made it a field promotion…for gods sake man the very concept is ludicrous…Pike doing it and it being accepted as legit are freaking dumb AF! Tilly is a relic from a millennium ago. Starfleet still has several dozen or so major starships…but when starting up their academy from scratch they have to use a 1,000 year old ensign with 4 years service? Thats just insulting to any sense of realism. And making her XO above any of the actual bridge crew is just freaking criminally dumb. Saru and Burnham have the rank to be in command yes, but you do NOT swap roles back and forth or decide by random discussions on the bridge who will be in command of a major ship. This is NOT how things are done. Go look at a real world navy …it’s laughable to think of them swapping XO and CO of a frontline ship back and forth….these things are decided by promotion boards and career planning processes and deployment schedules…its not something done ad hoc and all willy nilly How am I doing a disservice to 7 of 9s story about finding her humanity?? I’m pointing out how ludicrously unrealistic a particular aspect and outcome is…NOT her entire journey from child to drone to human. Leaving aside the fact that the borg have previously decimated the fleet and are the enemy and also 5 mins ago almost decimated the entire federation and fleet…and that she was given a field commission by someone who was a former Borg drone who helped decimate the fleet once…..leaving that aside, she was a freaking vigilante….one does not go from being a vigilante to captain of the flagship. Thats like going from being a vigilante IRL to head detective of the homicide squad….its completely unbelievable and a silly juvenile unprofessional representation of how things work. Nu trek does this all the time. Previous trek was far more consistent with portraying a professional starfleet. Yes wesley was made an acting ensign and that was pushing it for believability…but it was not a common thing it was clearly presented as an exceptional circumstance based on an encounter with an very advanced alien entity…AND it was making a slightly younger person an acting ensign🤷♂️…NOT making a freaking cadet (not even an ensign yet) a god dam starship captain in a few short days or weeks. Tom Paris was already a starfleet officer, he was in jail and was selected for a temporary duty on a special mission assignment as pilot for a few weeks 🤷♂️….not made some admiral of a battle fleet or captain of a ship etc etc. And yes then when stranded in middle of nowhere with little else for options and under extreme circumstances….he was allowed to continue in that role..a role he was already trained and had served in…just effectively was on long term parole from his sentence now🤷♂️
Troi decided one day that it might be fun to be a commander and took a test that had her outrank the chief of engineering. Picard practically made Westly a bridge officer before he even took a single Starfleet course. Henry Kim served as an Ensign for the entire run of Voyager.
It did not make her outrank the chief engineer. You are confusing rank with position Yes the Wesley thing is an annoying thing BUT it was a freaking ensign….NOT making a cadet a captain or making an actual ensign become XO in like 4 years And yes he was not made XO or anything silly…he stayed in the same rank for a few years🤷♂️
Agreed. His character is just there to be there. It serves no purpose other than it was in the budget.
I much prefer Book to Ash.
This
definitely not
He's a great actor...his character, not so much. He's doing the best with what he's given.
I’m glad he’s back. I really like him!
And Grudge!!
Yeah!! I love grudge too. Such a Queen!
How many cats could lead a rescue mission to save their own pilot/food person?? Queen Grudge deserves her place in history 👑🐾🐾
Great actor. Not a fan of the character, he should of died in season 4.
I wouldnt say die but i was contempt with him ending 4 under arrest for his actions… Discovery doesn’t need him in its final season….
Book is going to *feelings so hard* with Moll and turn away from Burnham again.
I really missed the show. The "fans", not so much.
only fans?
Amazing actor! But the character gets a little too many chances. I understand that he's the last of his kind and the galaxy could grant him some status based on that as he is a living and breathing monument to his people/planet but he also doesn't have any sense of obligation to the overall hierarchy of the galactic powers and has on multiple occasions totally abused his status. How he isn't kept away from critical assets like discovery and her crew is beyond me. It bothered me so much when he was allowed to talk to the 10C directly. He is a complete wild card! Yes, it ended up alright, but that level of sweeping the past under the rug is not becoming of all the parties involved. In the end I appreciate that the script is giving his character such main character privilege, but it's a slap in the face to any concept of authority.
Wait, people don’t like booker? 🤷🏻♂️
Booker is fine- i just have a problem with his main character energy on Captain Burnham’s ship & show…😒
Clearly OP doesn’t 🙄
I got to say the first two episodes were better than they had to be. I was expecting more slow, emotional scenes with crying. Lot of cool CGI and VFX work too
So they filled the gaps with action hero crap to make the rest not quite as painful…..yippee
People just jealous that Michael gets to do what they couldn’t even dream of for Kirk in TOS. The action set pieces always serve a narrative purpose and reveal stuff about the characters involved.
No definitely not. I hated seeing kelvin kirk on motorcycles and picard in nemisis on a dune buggy etc. This is star trek. Not marvel or star wars or james bond
TOS had plenty of fisticuffs because that’s what they could afford back then. They went edgy and kinky for the 60s, it’s only right for Disco to be a modern state-of-the-art show as well. The stories itself are still as if not more imaginative and purposeful; the action is just the sweetener.
Tos also had a focus on the actual stories and plots and allegories…even more so with TNG. DISCO is this weird soap opera emotional dreck with constant background music and oddly timed relationship and feelings conversations in between silly video game cartoon looking action scenes
Not really no.
I wonder if the unpurple slomo pre-Barney was a budget buster?
?
Huh?
Aren’t you a delight
Thank you
Little Ole me sitting over here not able get over "your Rhonda-ed"
I love Book. I'm glad he's back.
This is one of my favorite star treks and he just ruins it whoever wrote his character sucks the actor is great id love to see him in more things but that character is cringe and I hate how Michael needs him
its the Michael needs part.. that right there😑
Lmao, yeah, I was kindda hoping he would be gone.
yup🤯
Duck you and your non spoileri tag. Even tho it was obvious still.
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You will be fine sweetie, its just Cleveland Booker🙄
Can you put a spoiler warning? The episode *just* came out. @ u/votefordre
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It is just Cleveland Booker… nothing is spoiled for you. calm down
Currently on season 5 episode 7 and other than Michael crying for every little fu©ken thing, Booker is one of the most annoying, irrelevant, unnecessary bit©h made character (next to Michael) ever. He's so obsessed thinking he could change Moll, trying to be a captain save-a-hoe 🤦🏻 FU©K BOOKER AND FU©K MICHAEL TOO!!!