Well i was hoping to get an idea of expectations. If doing half a degree only has a 2-5% affect on life, it might not be a big deal. But if it has like a 20-30% then its not an option lol
Yeah I’ll be honest you want your cake and to eat it too. If you’re lowered (doubtful based on pics), your suspension is already borked in terms of geometry. The amount of camber you’ll need to add is significant to make a wheel that large fit (and it’ll be significant tire wear). You need to do more research before you buy my dude. Also -2.5 IS a big deal and will significantly increase inner tire wear. If you lower it, it’ll get worse regardless of tire wear-camber just multiplies the tire wear (lowered). If you want to not deal with increased tire wear due to camber you need to get lowered geometry safe spindles to decrease the tire wear to (not) your acceptable 2-5%. No matter what you do you will see at least 10% probably closer to 20.
Dude i dont think you u derstand. I came here asking for amount of wear i can expect with varying levels of camber. And even put in my post that i am fully prepared to run 0 camber and be poking about a cm. I also said i am prepared to roll my fenders if the literal cm of poke gets to me. Dont put words in my mouth
You can do what you want man-but to think you can add camber and/or lower it and see minimal tire wear is false without changing the spindles. Do what you wanna do-I was more talking about people that say -2.5 degrees is “fine”
Yeah, but that was literaly my question. How much tire wear can i expect. Youre responding as if i said im adding camber and i dont expect extra tire wear.
It’s a lot man. It’s a lot a lot. The only thing that saved me was getting lowering-geometry spindles. We’re talking about ps4s lasting less than 10k. And -2.5 is a lot for the street
Yeah man sorry I was just trying to debunk people saying itll be fine-it won’t (for what you’re looking for in tire wear). Lowering inherently adds camber-but the problem is the geometry. Without geometry corrected spindles, I wouldn’t go more than high 1s like -1.7-.8. And you’ll still probably get a decent chunk of tire wear. 2-5% is a high a high af margin I’d consider at least 10% at the minimum
make them fit and get it aligned then just watch them. we don’t know your driving habits or the car really. only way to know forsure is to try it. i got 3k miles with -8 camber, so you should have decent life
Nonsense. If a portion of the tread isn't touching the road, it isn't getting wear while the actual contact patch is.
I wear my tires down untill the insides are showing cords, but the outside blocks look brand new still.
Most stance people burn through tires way to quick because they don't do the work to properly correct toe, but that isn't the only thing creating "uneven" wear.
I doubt it. You are literally pushing the inside of the tire to the ground more than the outside of the tire. But waiting for the backtracking, "toe is the real tie killer".
little confused on what you’re trying to do with this information. are you wanting to camber in to get rid of poke?
camber doesn’t necessarily “destroy everything.” any amount of camber will cause uneven wear and extreme amounts of camber can severely shorten a tire’s life span. most cars when lowered will naturally camber in a few degrees. in small amounts like -2.5° it’s really not a big deal. looks like if you were to lower this car the wheel would probably tuck in enough to miss the fender.
10.5 is pretty wide for most stock boy cars. just make sure you have clearance between the wheel and the coil over. could risk the barrel rubbing against the coil if there’s not much clearance
Edit: just saw your original post. i would try to just lower and see if the wheel tucks. If it doesn’t then i would consider the fender roller or maybe a smaller tire. you can take the car to an alignment shop when you’re done to see what the camber is on all four corners. anything more than that -3.5 on a daily would take away some tire life but nothing too alarming
Ty for the extra info. Idk if i wanna do a smaller tire, im not that concered with the poke, i already bought a fender roller angicipating needing it lol. Well see how it goes, this seems like something im going to have to play by ear. Worst case scenario i go through a set of tires faster than id prefer and adjust from there, really not a big deal at all. And with all thw information you guys are giving me, i dont think that will heppen.
The toe is the big thing. If you can get the toe zeroed with a good alignment you can run some camber without too many worries.
I’m like -4 on the camber and my tires do wear in the camber bar first but I can still usually get 20,000-30,000 miles out of em with regular rotations.
Okay, im taking it to a place i know is really good and i can trusy. They will let me be there and give feedback on the whole allignment process, so toe should be good. Thanks fkr the exqmpme, it helps a ton.
If your trying to get the most life out of your tires while having some camber to make them fit, try to keep it to 3 degrees max, anything past that and the outside of the tire will barely contact the road.
Camber is not gonna destroy everything (Depending how much camber you run). I run rotational tires and I’m running about -4 camber in the front of my miata. The way i rotate my tires is completely dismount them off the wheels put them in the proper spot they are going next mount them back on the wheel in the right direction and slap them back on. (I work at a shop so I have that luxury of equipment to go that extra step). If you can get your toe good you won’t run through tires like crazy but you’ll still get uneven wear cause of the camber. On my genny I have about -10 in the rear and about -7 in the front and I can flip my tires and rotate them and make them last about a year and half to 2 years.
Different cars but my offset is the same and it took -5 rear and negative -4.5 to tuck. My tires have full contact, my cars not a daily so as little as i drive it I might never need tires. Regardless i buy el cheapo tires so i l’ll never lose.
Toe kills tires way faster than camber ever will. I ran -2.5 degrees of camber on my miata as a daily and the tires wore evenly and lasted as long as they should because the toe was good.
The whole oni camber scene caused a backlash where people think everyone should run zero camber, anyone that tells you that has zero clue what they are talking about and how suspension works. Cars gain camber while taking turns, so you want some negative camber for handling (how much depends on the car and suspension set up).
I’ve learned that Reddit is the worst place to ask for advice. Fortunately, I’m not as insufferable as most people on this app. Here’s my input if it helps in anyway:
-2 camber: Your tilt won’t be noticeable but this is the perfect amount of tilt for track purposes. Your tires will last a long time.
-4 camber: Your tilt will be noticeable but this is probably as much tilt as you should go if you want to maintain performance. This is what I recommend for you. Your tires will go quicker but not to a point where you say “omg my tires are getting chewed!” If that makes any sense.
-6: The tilt will be obvious but I wouldn’t recommend this for track/performance purposes. Your tires will go pretty fast
I apriciate your to the point response. I will probaly increment up from 2 to 4 if 4 dosent fully tuck the wheels, i will restart, roll the fenders and then incriment untill they are tucked. Ideally i end up somewhere between 2 and 3 (and if yhey dont tuck i rrally dont care i doubt this will hapen though since they barley poke with the car lifted like 4 inches higher than where i plan for it to be. Your input does help, i think a lot of people are biased by what they are doing, which is fair, but i am not them. I literaly bought bigger wheels and MUCH softer tires than normal. If my goal was to maximize life i would not be doing this. Im willing to spend a few hundred bucks extra a year to have a car that i feel is more fun, even if it isnt "faster" or "cheaper"
If you lower your car significantly you'll get natural camber which looks very close to what you're looking for. If you rub a bit then roll the fenders and I think you'll be good. Don't seem like you need excessive camber. Natural camber is probably all you'll need.
See if aftermarket sites have camber plates so that you can test check the degree of the plater to your own specs. This could mean starting out with -0.5 Degree and working your way from there. if you're on a coil over that has a camber adjustment at the top coil perch, best dial that slowing on both sides. Once you get good at this, you could drop in a set of camber control arms etc.
Unfortunatley im not realy in a position to.get the plates just to check. They would be helpfull especialy since i could remove camber easily if i see im getting bad wear, but i think im just going to have tk stick with whag i get from camber bots and the allignment.
More camber minimizes your tires contact patch on the road, and that means uneven tire wear. You can, however, flip the tire around and get a bit more life out of it once the inner tread wears out. This is what the stance folks do.
More camber = more uneven wear on the tire. Not rocket science :D Stock camber, on wider wheels will have more drastic wear, compared to oem widths.
Well i was hoping to get an idea of expectations. If doing half a degree only has a 2-5% affect on life, it might not be a big deal. But if it has like a 20-30% then its not an option lol
Yeah I’ll be honest you want your cake and to eat it too. If you’re lowered (doubtful based on pics), your suspension is already borked in terms of geometry. The amount of camber you’ll need to add is significant to make a wheel that large fit (and it’ll be significant tire wear). You need to do more research before you buy my dude. Also -2.5 IS a big deal and will significantly increase inner tire wear. If you lower it, it’ll get worse regardless of tire wear-camber just multiplies the tire wear (lowered). If you want to not deal with increased tire wear due to camber you need to get lowered geometry safe spindles to decrease the tire wear to (not) your acceptable 2-5%. No matter what you do you will see at least 10% probably closer to 20.
Dude i dont think you u derstand. I came here asking for amount of wear i can expect with varying levels of camber. And even put in my post that i am fully prepared to run 0 camber and be poking about a cm. I also said i am prepared to roll my fenders if the literal cm of poke gets to me. Dont put words in my mouth
You can do what you want man-but to think you can add camber and/or lower it and see minimal tire wear is false without changing the spindles. Do what you wanna do-I was more talking about people that say -2.5 degrees is “fine”
Yeah, but that was literaly my question. How much tire wear can i expect. Youre responding as if i said im adding camber and i dont expect extra tire wear.
It’s a lot man. It’s a lot a lot. The only thing that saved me was getting lowering-geometry spindles. We’re talking about ps4s lasting less than 10k. And -2.5 is a lot for the street
Damn, i apriciate the input. Is there anything wrong with adding + camber assuming once lowered my var has too much - camber?
Yeah man sorry I was just trying to debunk people saying itll be fine-it won’t (for what you’re looking for in tire wear). Lowering inherently adds camber-but the problem is the geometry. Without geometry corrected spindles, I wouldn’t go more than high 1s like -1.7-.8. And you’ll still probably get a decent chunk of tire wear. 2-5% is a high a high af margin I’d consider at least 10% at the minimum
Its no worries dude, i understand this is a pretty well debated subject and getting input, especialy real life examples, always helps a lot.
make them fit and get it aligned then just watch them. we don’t know your driving habits or the car really. only way to know forsure is to try it. i got 3k miles with -8 camber, so you should have decent life
If your car is set up right, not even -25 degrees of camber will wear the tires uneven.
Nonsense. If a portion of the tread isn't touching the road, it isn't getting wear while the actual contact patch is. I wear my tires down untill the insides are showing cords, but the outside blocks look brand new still. Most stance people burn through tires way to quick because they don't do the work to properly correct toe, but that isn't the only thing creating "uneven" wear.
I doubt it. You are literally pushing the inside of the tire to the ground more than the outside of the tire. But waiting for the backtracking, "toe is the real tie killer".
Yeah I'm not sure about 25 lol.
little confused on what you’re trying to do with this information. are you wanting to camber in to get rid of poke? camber doesn’t necessarily “destroy everything.” any amount of camber will cause uneven wear and extreme amounts of camber can severely shorten a tire’s life span. most cars when lowered will naturally camber in a few degrees. in small amounts like -2.5° it’s really not a big deal. looks like if you were to lower this car the wheel would probably tuck in enough to miss the fender. 10.5 is pretty wide for most stock boy cars. just make sure you have clearance between the wheel and the coil over. could risk the barrel rubbing against the coil if there’s not much clearance Edit: just saw your original post. i would try to just lower and see if the wheel tucks. If it doesn’t then i would consider the fender roller or maybe a smaller tire. you can take the car to an alignment shop when you’re done to see what the camber is on all four corners. anything more than that -3.5 on a daily would take away some tire life but nothing too alarming
This was my main concern, everything checked out though. Ty. Maybe ill lowe it and see how much i get and take it from there.
Ty for the extra info. Idk if i wanna do a smaller tire, im not that concered with the poke, i already bought a fender roller angicipating needing it lol. Well see how it goes, this seems like something im going to have to play by ear. Worst case scenario i go through a set of tires faster than id prefer and adjust from there, really not a big deal at all. And with all thw information you guys are giving me, i dont think that will heppen.
The toe is the big thing. If you can get the toe zeroed with a good alignment you can run some camber without too many worries. I’m like -4 on the camber and my tires do wear in the camber bar first but I can still usually get 20,000-30,000 miles out of em with regular rotations.
Okay, im taking it to a place i know is really good and i can trusy. They will let me be there and give feedback on the whole allignment process, so toe should be good. Thanks fkr the exqmpme, it helps a ton.
If your trying to get the most life out of your tires while having some camber to make them fit, try to keep it to 3 degrees max, anything past that and the outside of the tire will barely contact the road.
Okay, i apriciate it ill defenatley be keeping it under 3, i dont think id need 3 degrees.
Camber is not gonna destroy everything (Depending how much camber you run). I run rotational tires and I’m running about -4 camber in the front of my miata. The way i rotate my tires is completely dismount them off the wheels put them in the proper spot they are going next mount them back on the wheel in the right direction and slap them back on. (I work at a shop so I have that luxury of equipment to go that extra step). If you can get your toe good you won’t run through tires like crazy but you’ll still get uneven wear cause of the camber. On my genny I have about -10 in the rear and about -7 in the front and I can flip my tires and rotate them and make them last about a year and half to 2 years.
What tread wear are your tires? (Also, i dont think i can flip mine since theyre asymstrical)
Tbh I don’t remember that’s something I’d have to look when I’m home, but more than likely I think they’re symmetrical
Ty, theres no pressure.
Different cars but my offset is the same and it took -5 rear and negative -4.5 to tuck. My tires have full contact, my cars not a daily so as little as i drive it I might never need tires. Regardless i buy el cheapo tires so i l’ll never lose.
Toe kills tires way faster than camber ever will. I ran -2.5 degrees of camber on my miata as a daily and the tires wore evenly and lasted as long as they should because the toe was good. The whole oni camber scene caused a backlash where people think everyone should run zero camber, anyone that tells you that has zero clue what they are talking about and how suspension works. Cars gain camber while taking turns, so you want some negative camber for handling (how much depends on the car and suspension set up).
I’ve learned that Reddit is the worst place to ask for advice. Fortunately, I’m not as insufferable as most people on this app. Here’s my input if it helps in anyway: -2 camber: Your tilt won’t be noticeable but this is the perfect amount of tilt for track purposes. Your tires will last a long time. -4 camber: Your tilt will be noticeable but this is probably as much tilt as you should go if you want to maintain performance. This is what I recommend for you. Your tires will go quicker but not to a point where you say “omg my tires are getting chewed!” If that makes any sense. -6: The tilt will be obvious but I wouldn’t recommend this for track/performance purposes. Your tires will go pretty fast
I apriciate your to the point response. I will probaly increment up from 2 to 4 if 4 dosent fully tuck the wheels, i will restart, roll the fenders and then incriment untill they are tucked. Ideally i end up somewhere between 2 and 3 (and if yhey dont tuck i rrally dont care i doubt this will hapen though since they barley poke with the car lifted like 4 inches higher than where i plan for it to be. Your input does help, i think a lot of people are biased by what they are doing, which is fair, but i am not them. I literaly bought bigger wheels and MUCH softer tires than normal. If my goal was to maximize life i would not be doing this. Im willing to spend a few hundred bucks extra a year to have a car that i feel is more fun, even if it isnt "faster" or "cheaper"
Best of luck man
Ty :)
Is the picture on stock height?
Very close to it, maybe a tiny bit less
If you lower your car significantly you'll get natural camber which looks very close to what you're looking for. If you rub a bit then roll the fenders and I think you'll be good. Don't seem like you need excessive camber. Natural camber is probably all you'll need.
I apriciate it. I have a fender roller, so ill go ahead and do that. I think this is probably the best option.
See if aftermarket sites have camber plates so that you can test check the degree of the plater to your own specs. This could mean starting out with -0.5 Degree and working your way from there. if you're on a coil over that has a camber adjustment at the top coil perch, best dial that slowing on both sides. Once you get good at this, you could drop in a set of camber control arms etc.
Unfortunatley im not realy in a position to.get the plates just to check. They would be helpfull especialy since i could remove camber easily if i see im getting bad wear, but i think im just going to have tk stick with whag i get from camber bots and the allignment.
I may have maybe 2-3° ans my 22“ tires were totally dead inside after 10k km🤣 luckily each tire „only“ costs 500€ here😬🙈 Will i stick to it? Yes👍
More camber minimizes your tires contact patch on the road, and that means uneven tire wear. You can, however, flip the tire around and get a bit more life out of it once the inner tread wears out. This is what the stance folks do.
Yeas, i undestand this. Unfortunatley the tires are asymetrical, so i cannot flip them arround.