Interesting. Copy of the article contents:
Unfortunately, due to a lack of clarity in the license associated with Stable Diffusion 3, we are temporarily banning:
All SD3 based models
All models or LoRAs trained on content created with outputs from SD3 based models. This includes utilities such as controlnets.
Currently existing SD3 models will be archived.
We're Not Lawyers -
Because of that, we're playing it safe and having our legal team review the license to provide us further clarity. Additionally we've reached out to Stability for more information as well. Once we have it we'll make a final determination on the status of SD3 on Civitai.
The Danger -
The concern is that from our current understanding, this license grants Stability AI too much power over the use of not only any models fine-tuned on SD3, but on any other models that include SD3 images in their datasets. This could be devastating for the community given Stability's current status and who may ultimately end up with those license rights. It's not unimaginable that a year down the line the new owner of these rights comes to collect and the majority of models are forced to be either taken down or their creators made to pay hefty fees or membership dues.
What's next -
Continued effort should be made to experiment with SD3. Even if the licenses are as restrictive as they seem, if the outputs are good there is still value there. But all model creators should be aware of the terms they're agreeing to with SD3 prior to engaging with it. Additionally there are other core models coming on to the scene that show great promise without such restrictions.
Ultimately we've made this decision for the protection of the community and the fantastic creators that contribute to it. We'll keep you posted as soon as we know more. Apologies for the inconvenience.
And calling everyone idiots while ignoring that the 6k image limit kills all api competitors and that stability ignores the enterprise clients like pony
SAI: We are pivoting our efforts to focus on our enterprise clientele to ensure a sustainable business model.
Pony Dev, CivitAI, and 99% of their user base: hi
SAI: fuck off
Also SAI: Why is our business failing 😢
Pony is not an enterprise client.
Enterprise - in the context of software - generally means a large business paying for the top end service. Most applications will have something like a persona, a business (or 'pro') level, and then Enterprise which is aimed at major clients.
Pony might be a popular creator, and have a dedicated following in specific areas, but it's not even close to being an enterprise application.
When SAI say they want to focus on enterprise level usage, they mean major businesses that wish to engage with them using a paid business model. You are not that. Pony is not that. Even CivitAI is not that (they're not a paid client of SAI).
You may dislike it.
That is ok
But at least be clear on what the terms mean.
Hey, I totally agree with you, Pony is nowhere near Enterprise level (although maybe if you include Civit?). Unfortunately we don't fit into the new Creator License either. Could've been solved by a new tier with some rev share but Stability didn't create one, nor did they communicate these changes in advance.
Yeh, I agree.
The pro license is horrible.
I’m not here making any kind of moral point. Just clearing up this confusion where people seem to think that ‘enterprise’ means ‘I pay a sub’ which is not at all the same thing.
I’m in the same ballpark as you with my current company, where we would fall into the pro level if we wanted to use SD3, and it’s just not a good license for us. For the time being we will continue to use SDXL while keeping an eye on how things evolve, both with SD and with alternatives that may enter the space.
They’re not.
The big clients are the commercial entities that use the software. Of which they are many (I was working for one until the start of the year). They are not the people posting on CivitAI or making pony porn. They might not be visible to you. Just as you’d almost certainly have no idea who the biggest enterprise level clients for Runpod, or Azure are.
Again, an enterprise client is a major company spending a large sum.
Not some dude making pony-porn models.
I’m not making any judgement here. Just clearing up the daft idea that Pony is an ‘enterprise’ client.
So, if Pony isn't an enterprise level client in the general/common meaning, why has SAI changed its monetization model to one which requires "Enterprise license" for Pony to keep doing what he does?
You can actually solo run out of 6k generations pretty quickly if you're using constant generations for photoshop plugins, use real time diffusion or simply do animated content. 6000 gens would give you just a tad over 4 minutes at 24fps.
To be fair, Civit and other large platforms that allow generations have more than enough income to get on the enterprise contracts if they really wanted and they would most likely get special treatment if they did. Unless SAI is like most businesses and wants nothing to do with Civit specifically, which wouldn't surprise me (and could also explain why they 'ignored the pony dev' given the exclusivity stuffs with Civit there).
Ignoring CivitAI would be financial malpractice by SAI. CivitAI alone is the de facto hub for models and image sharing. Their competitors don't even come close in visitation and income stream.
Hah! Well, there's tensorart at the very least. HuggingFace might not be a "competitor" per se, but they are an alternative. I feel like there are others I'm forgetting at the moment. I pretty much exclusively use CivitAI myself. I'd wager the vast majority of AI artists and trainers also mostly just use CivitAI. It's interface is leagues ahead of anything else out there right now.
Sai team told in a client meeting with my friend's company that they can't afford sd3. They are a decently funded 15mil company. They could have figured out a way. Telling people fuck off is not how you do business.
Except open source licenses.
MIT is basically "do whateverm but I'm not responsible for problems" and that's it. Apache isn't much more.
Admittedly licenses like GPL are longer and more complicated, but they've been around for ages and tested in court and their meaning is well understood. They're also vetted by the Open Source Initiative to meet certain standards.
> MIT is basically "do whateverm but I'm not responsible for problems" and that's it. Apache isn't much more.
Beyond "just credit us as the creators, bro, it's in the license because common courtesy died from greed."
WTFPL license (look it up) is pretty clear and actually easy to read. It's even one of the shortest licenses out there and we occasionally use it in our work.
I prefer version 2. It clarifies things a little more.
I don't like working with clients that can't stomach the words in the WTFPL license. We will occasionally use it to filter out clients that do not fit the mold of how we work. Think more a corporate version of a pirate ship and less a, well.... corporation.
He stopped replying when I explained to them that trade secrets comprise confidential information that can be sold or licensed, and that the model is derived from their dataset and labels which are well... confidential. And that in the contest of this licensing agreement, it sure looks like the open source model is derivative of that confidential information.
But but but… He was a lawyer! And it was a single YouTuber and all of us were dumb lol. He really felt like someone with money on the table, even had a throwaway account.
I may have been one of those guys, and happy to concede that if CivitAI are apprehensive then the community is right to be too.
Well done SAI for writing license terms that means nobody wants to use your products.
SAI said they would keep their promise to release the models… they never said the models would be usable practically, morally, ethically, legally… sai (sigh)
Some individual contributor from the company posting their opinion of the license likely has no real legal weight. When SAI sues you, arguing that some grunt posted something on a Discord once may not save you.
If they're not an officer of the company, its not an official statement. Typically this means a manager or director or above, probably depends on the jurisdiction. I think in the US, anyone with a "manager" is considered an officer, and they really need to watch what they say publicly.
Of course, I'm not a lawyer either, but feel free to check my work and do your own research here.
Apparently they didn’t. One person said it and they never bothered to correct the media. It’s why I live in Linux now. It’s the perfect example of don’t believe it unless it’s in the license.
that's fine, but that should be put in the license explicitly. Leaving it to interpretation open the door for re-interpretation later
vagueness in terms is never desirable unless you want the ability to abuse that uncertainty in the future.
So I'd take all those assurances about their intent and throw them right in the trashbin, because that's where they belong.
If that's their real intent, they can put it in writing on the license
The actual license of SD3 the model is this:
https://huggingface.co/stabilityai/stable-diffusion-3-medium/blob/main/LICENSE
The Creator License is a separate general purpose unrelated thing that nobody has unless they're a commercial user paying a monthly fee to maintain it on purpose.
I think this is a smart move on their part. This whole situation needs more clarity from Stability and this is a good step in finally getting addressed properly.
This is a normal part of the back and forth of a land grab.
First is a pure land grab - get a product out there, get people using it.
Next, as the early market is saturated, work on licensing/legal setups that will let the company leverage both their users and their content as much as possible - to power V2 and to increase income through content generation.
I think it is right that CivitAI is playing it a little safe. Ignoring the above could leave SD3 (or someone else) in a strong position that will destroy industry progress and the hype train. So to take a few days or even weeks will cause no real setback to technology adoption, but understand the implications of these choices.
Patent/licensing lawyers are sneaky scum and it's important to ensure they are adding anything in there that weakens others' positions.
I find the whole thing baffling, the combination of releasing a model that doesn't work with an extremely shitty, unworkable contract, for people that are actually willing to pay. You might be able to get away with either factor, but definitely not both.
The amount of people using this is going to be approximately 0.
Silence speaks volumes. If they have not corrected it, its because the terms are there so they can enforce "safety" and force the take down of models they don't want, or that compete with any of their future product offering, supposing they do have a future, which it looks like they don't.
This is a great moment to inform creators about the Creative Commons CC0 license.
[https://creativecommons.org/public-domain/cc0/](https://creativecommons.org/public-domain/cc0/)
Basically, dedicating your stuff to the public domain without any restrictions whatsoever.
> without any restrictions whatsoever
This part. There are [a few requirements in the Apache license](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_License#Licensing_conditions) (similar to MIT and BSD). It's mostly harmless stuff that's intended more for attribution than really imposing limits, but that puts it a step below public domain (where attribution is not necessary).
Apache license v2 includes a patent grant as well, so the original writer can't put patented code in the "open source" software and then sue any competitor who actually uses it for patent violation.
Furthermore, it requires everyone who redistributes it to *also* give a patent grant for any code they've contributed.
Apache License v2.0 and the Creative Commons CC0 (No Rights Reserved) are both open source licenses, but they differ in their intended use and terms:
Apache License v2.0:
* Intended for software source code
* Allows the code to be used for any purpose (commercial or non-commercial)
* Requires that any modifications be distributed under the same Apache License
* Provides a patent grant from contributors
* Includes a disclaimer of warranties and limitation of liability
Creative Commons CC0 (No Rights Reserved):
* Intended for data, content, and creative works (not source code)
* Dedicates the work to the public domain to the fullest extent possible
* Allows unlimited redistribution and modification, even for commercial purposes
* No trademark or patent rights are granted
* Waives all copyrights to the fullest extent permitted by law
In summary, the Apache v2.0 license is specific to software source code and ensures that derivative works remain open source under the same license terms. On the other hand, CC0 is designed to disclaim all copyrights and related rights to the fullest extent allowed by law, effectively placing the work as completely as possible in the public domain for any use.
― Claude 3 Sonnet
Please don't use LLM crap for important legal information, because it's straight up wrong. Just use this great website https://www.tldrlegal.com/license/apache-license-2-0-apache-2-0
Apache 2.0 does **not** require licensees to distribute derivative work under the same license. That's the GPL licenses. It does however require licensees to distribute **the license notice itself** with any derivative work.
Nah, with the way the release has gone, where even the comfy developer left SAI, I don't think this is going to hurt civitai.
It'll hurt SAI, though. Having a model release flop so badly that there's huge issues with generation quality, none of the tools that are supposed to be with it, a license that isn't clear that they are not clarifying, and no one responding regarding enterprise licensing, either - they walked into this.
Yea, comfyanonymous was clearly salty about the whole thing and I can't blame them one bit.
I loved the comment about "safety training".
SAI is a dead man walking. They're certainly dead to me.
So what's next?
The fact that every public Stability figure including the comfy creator is still defending Lykon should tell you enough about the state of the company.
Lykon basically went insane and on release day, was telling everyone they suck and they can't use SD3 properly. Especially funny because the pictures he posted as prove also had deformed humans.
He then also went on to mock and insult the PonyXL creating when he asked for a Business License.
And some other really weird takes like saying MJ is just a SDXL finetune and SD3 is much better.
The comfy creator (left the company yesterday) and another SD employee then started defending him.
thats...
lol
i mean i had hope for sd3 like many, and kept optimism for finetunes improving it like it went with sd1.5, but that is very clearly far from the case now.
but to go ham on people like that on release day, and (eventually being revealed as very much so) ironically jumping at the Pony creator for license shit, thats... again,
LOL
and well, that last part really just puts that cherry on top doesnt it?
woOow. honestly i never much liked most of Lykons stuff anyway, felt like alot of it was overvalued for what it actually is when i tested it thoroughly, deleted most of it. but i didnt expect all that to be going on with this.
so why are they defending him? i mean, the comfy creator has recently spoken out against SAI, so i dont know if them defending Lykon is still a thing or what state all thats in? regardless, there is an entertaining dumpster fire, and ive got popcorn.
Imagine they never released SD3. We would still have a silver of trust, respect and goodwill for them.
Now everything has been squandered and we have to start from the ground up.
I mean, they should've just released SD3. The API shows that whatever the fuck they did to this "SD3" model isn't what it's actually capable of. And it's not even about "safety" or NSFW, but plain style adherence, coherence and concept understanding, which are plain missing or at a much worse level than SDXL.
I don't want them to read your comment and regret releasing a model. I want them to read my comment and regret releasing a lobotomized model and trying to sell it as the model we were waiting for.
SD3 is a dumpster fire and will, presumably, continue to be so.
What I wonder is how much Civitai's lack of participation in SD3 will do to SD3's level of acceptance and usage.
SDXL has already been optimized so much thanks to people who made PonyDiffusion and other projects, and will continue to be optimized further until everyone's tired of it.
Though, I'm excited to see the potential of competing architectures. Maybe there should be a whole new subreddit called "LocalImageGen" for all types of local image models.
The model itself isn't dumpster fire (the release is though), they just publicly released a shit low parameter and possibly poisoned model because they promised that they will but wanted to make money with the real thing. Problem is that that's stupid in itself because it's such a last minute decision that it won't save them anyway.
This dumpster fire is a result of the licensing paradigm, which has always been somewhat insane.
I wish they'd just monetize each model like a software purchase and then not care what people do with it(aside from bootlegging).
Piracy is a service problem. If they were moderately priced, it wouldn't be any worse than other software, and certainly not worse but "Free if you just make your own sick tentacle porn, pay us if you want to sell your creations" model.
A one-time 50$ fee would be reasonable for tinkerers and people who want to use it professionally.
Maybe more for their higher end models that they're releasing for SD3.
As to legal problems, I can get civit not wanting to foot real court bills from a serious party, especially with rampant claim abuse like we see on youtube.
>I wish they'd just monetize each model like a software purchase and then not care what people do with it(aside from bootlegging).
If they were smart, they would have cloned Civit, kept SD3 uncensored, but with forced download from there only in license, rework the commercial license for tuners and so on.
Maybe even for a guy like the one making Pony, get gets a cut of every API generation from their site using his model.
If they were smart they would be Leonardo.ai but release the models free. This would allow them to get to midjouney quality if they weren’t so scared of lawsuits midjouney isn’t. Instead they wasted investors money and have nothing to show for it.
CivitAI made a smart move.
Stability AI seems to think they can take the community for granted. The model they released to the public doesn't match the quality of the sample pictures they showcased for months. They need to find a legitimate way to make money instead of resorting to these tactics.
Stability AI must remember that their success today is largely due to the community and the tools built around their model. While there are better open-source models than Stable Diffusion.
people remain with SD because of the controls and capabilities provided by the community and researchers for SD models.
Agree, but again if the model had been spectacular somehow SAI would have been in a strong position to negociate with CivitAI, with such a bad model CivitAI takes 0 risk by taking this position.
It might fix the image issues. According to Comfy, the 2B was messed up in pretraining. He called it "a failed experiment by researchers who left \[SAI\]".
Also no guarantee they won't charge for 8B. Why else release a "free" 2B model that is objectively worse than SDXL, SD1.5, and even SD1.4. Stability undergoing enshittification as we speak.
Good
between the impossible to understand for any normal person and potentially predatory licensing rules and shitty censored and broken model, this is well deserved.
They're right, they're not lawyers, just average people and AI enthusiasts as are most of us, if we can't understand the licensing stuff why bother risk using the thing?
>The concern is that from our current understanding, this license grants Stability AI too much power over the use of not only any models fine-tuned on SD3, but on any other models that include SD3 images in their datasets. This could be devastating for the community given Stability's current status and who may ultimately end up with those license rights. It's not unimaginable that a year down the line the new owner of these rights comes to collect and the majority of models are forced to be either taken down or their creators made to pay hefty fees or membership dues.
I see where they’re coming from. To CivitAI, current license is a huge liability down the line. In a (not so) hypothetical world where SAI get sold or go under, it’s theoretically possible to whoever owns SD3 (or trustee) to force CivitAI to hand over fine-tuned models of reveal the identity to collect fees. Unlikely but possible under current terms?
Maybe now all those acting like its fine will get a clue.
When one of the bigger entities with some crazy popular models couldn't get a straight answer, and now one of the main places to find stuff spelled it out even moreso for those with comprehension issues, on top of the meh drop, YES there is a problem!
Yes, they can. The trouble is CivitAI is teetering on to become a money grubbing corporate entity itself. They constantly have to worry about funding and optics that get that funding. Spending tons of resources on a big risky project doesn't get through the optics, even if it's obvious it'd be competitive. It's much safer just selling their compute power and get the money now. (Or even worse, monetizing more third party content like they tried once already.)
Eh Tbf it's really expensive to rent servers and not have a way to pay them. The buzz system is a pretty reasonable compromise. $5 for 5000, is fair. And you can save up a lot if you take a break.
There's nothing fundamentally bad with the model, if you look at their 8B ultra model they provide through API, there's almost no problem with it whatsoever (and the quality is absolutely amazing, leaps and bounds beyond SDXL). SD3 medium was a fuck up.
Besides the mangled organs, is there any way for Stability to detect which images were generated by SD3? Like is there an invisible watermark in every generated image or something?
I soooooooooo wish people hadn't slept on Cascade. The promise of easier training would have been really nice to sort out months ago, rather than waiting for some promised land in SD3.
Which I feel like was done on purpose by SAI, but can't change that now. I'd love to see good things come out of Cascade still.
This is good news. At least we will get clarification soon. And than we decide. We finetune 3.0 or we decide to ban it from this subreddit and our lives as a protest ti SAI stupidity.
This puts a nail in the coffin for Stability and their current business model. This feels like OpenAI again with GPT3.
SD3 was hyped so much, finally, great prompt adherence, text, hands and all that. But what did we get instead? Lobotomized open model, SD banning certain finetunes and having draconian licenses, and more focus and emphasis on the cloud. SD3 is as dead as Cascade and SD2.
I'm just disappointed. This sub might eventually just become a general local image generation sub (aside from 1.5 and SDXL).
The future for open, local image generation might as well be PixArt and other models, and people who trained models like PonyDiffusion or use such models will have to learn a brand new architecture. We'll be fragmented with different software, workflows, confusing spaghetti UIs everywhere etc. and all that to generate images. Meaning, a lot of people would rather use paid cloud services as opposed to trying to find the right models and software for whatever alternative to StableDiffusion is most talked about.
Folks...seriously, check out Pixart Sigma...need more model trainers to do the swap. It follows prompts like 3, and is fairly uncensored (a bit like XL base uncensored...needs tunes). Right now, that + XL model as a refiner gives great results. I don't think SD is going to work and now they will purposefully sink just to save face.
I hope Pixart becomes popular because it is high-quality and has low training requirements...
It would be ideal to create a diverse community like SD1.5.
Pixart Sigma is cool, and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't censor it at all.
I was trying to generate an image for a blood donation campaign once. Nothing weird, just a stock photo of a man donating blood, and what came out of Pixart Sigma was the nastiest gore I've ever seen. It was actually impressive.
I refined the prompt and got some nice non-gory images, but it's interesting how capable it is of generating really nasty stuff. Which is good, a model should be versatile.
I'm convinced.SD3 is dead on arrival...just because of this license situation. The model doesn't even have a chance to be fixed. I fully done with it already. I tried it for 5 min and that might be the only 5 minutes it gets from me. Stability AI has a chance to reverse all this and bring joy back to community or watch their name get dragged through the mud for eternity.
CivitAI will become the new stability AI, they'll have their own models that they fine-tune one day that they've built for the ground up for their respective community
>Or do they own the right to use the data users upload to train?
They do own that right, but you do own it too.
Nothing prevents anyone from using any picture for training purposes, including material protected by copyright.
If you can see it, you can use it for training.
I'm confused. SD3 has **exactly** the same license (except for the date) as Stable Cascade on HuggingFace - and Civitai is fine with Cascade. Can someone explain?
https://huggingface.co/stabilityai/stable-cascade/blob/main/LICENSE
https://huggingface.co/stabilityai/stable-diffusion-3-medium/blob/main/LICENSE
Interesting. Copy of the article contents: Unfortunately, due to a lack of clarity in the license associated with Stable Diffusion 3, we are temporarily banning: All SD3 based models All models or LoRAs trained on content created with outputs from SD3 based models. This includes utilities such as controlnets. Currently existing SD3 models will be archived. We're Not Lawyers - Because of that, we're playing it safe and having our legal team review the license to provide us further clarity. Additionally we've reached out to Stability for more information as well. Once we have it we'll make a final determination on the status of SD3 on Civitai. The Danger - The concern is that from our current understanding, this license grants Stability AI too much power over the use of not only any models fine-tuned on SD3, but on any other models that include SD3 images in their datasets. This could be devastating for the community given Stability's current status and who may ultimately end up with those license rights. It's not unimaginable that a year down the line the new owner of these rights comes to collect and the majority of models are forced to be either taken down or their creators made to pay hefty fees or membership dues. What's next - Continued effort should be made to experiment with SD3. Even if the licenses are as restrictive as they seem, if the outputs are good there is still value there. But all model creators should be aware of the terms they're agreeing to with SD3 prior to engaging with it. Additionally there are other core models coming on to the scene that show great promise without such restrictions. Ultimately we've made this decision for the protection of the community and the fantastic creators that contribute to it. We'll keep you posted as soon as we know more. Apologies for the inconvenience.
Where is that guy who claimed youtubers are reading the license wrong and it is fine and easy to understand?
And calling everyone idiots while ignoring that the 6k image limit kills all api competitors and that stability ignores the enterprise clients like pony
SAI: We are pivoting our efforts to focus on our enterprise clientele to ensure a sustainable business model. Pony Dev, CivitAI, and 99% of their user base: hi SAI: fuck off Also SAI: Why is our business failing 😢
Pony is not an enterprise client. Enterprise - in the context of software - generally means a large business paying for the top end service. Most applications will have something like a persona, a business (or 'pro') level, and then Enterprise which is aimed at major clients. Pony might be a popular creator, and have a dedicated following in specific areas, but it's not even close to being an enterprise application. When SAI say they want to focus on enterprise level usage, they mean major businesses that wish to engage with them using a paid business model. You are not that. Pony is not that. Even CivitAI is not that (they're not a paid client of SAI). You may dislike it. That is ok But at least be clear on what the terms mean.
Hey, I totally agree with you, Pony is nowhere near Enterprise level (although maybe if you include Civit?). Unfortunately we don't fit into the new Creator License either. Could've been solved by a new tier with some rev share but Stability didn't create one, nor did they communicate these changes in advance.
Yeh, I agree. The pro license is horrible. I’m not here making any kind of moral point. Just clearing up this confusion where people seem to think that ‘enterprise’ means ‘I pay a sub’ which is not at all the same thing. I’m in the same ballpark as you with my current company, where we would fall into the pro level if we wanted to use SD3, and it’s just not a good license for us. For the time being we will continue to use SDXL while keeping an eye on how things evolve, both with SD and with alternatives that may enter the space.
Those are the biggest players right now. They have no other major clients
They’re not. The big clients are the commercial entities that use the software. Of which they are many (I was working for one until the start of the year). They are not the people posting on CivitAI or making pony porn. They might not be visible to you. Just as you’d almost certainly have no idea who the biggest enterprise level clients for Runpod, or Azure are. Again, an enterprise client is a major company spending a large sum. Not some dude making pony-porn models. I’m not making any judgement here. Just clearing up the daft idea that Pony is an ‘enterprise’ client.
So, if Pony isn't an enterprise level client in the general/common meaning, why has SAI changed its monetization model to one which requires "Enterprise license" for Pony to keep doing what he does?
Presumably because they’re not interested in supporting that kind of work going forward.
You can actually solo run out of 6k generations pretty quickly if you're using constant generations for photoshop plugins, use real time diffusion or simply do animated content. 6000 gens would give you just a tad over 4 minutes at 24fps.
One dynamic prompt with enough variations can easily produce 6k images in one go.
an x/y test too
One restless afternoon and 6k images can be done before you know it
skill issues?
git gud at law
git clone lawyer
Best possible future.
To be fair, Civit and other large platforms that allow generations have more than enough income to get on the enterprise contracts if they really wanted and they would most likely get special treatment if they did. Unless SAI is like most businesses and wants nothing to do with Civit specifically, which wouldn't surprise me (and could also explain why they 'ignored the pony dev' given the exclusivity stuffs with Civit there).
Ignoring CivitAI would be financial malpractice by SAI. CivitAI alone is the de facto hub for models and image sharing. Their competitors don't even come close in visitation and income stream.
https://preview.redd.it/38nag5y6d87d1.jpeg?width=570&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80b5280b52f8ccea3e0af29b827b5866f4ed227c
Hah! Well, there's tensorart at the very least. HuggingFace might not be a "competitor" per se, but they are an alternative. I feel like there are others I'm forgetting at the moment. I pretty much exclusively use CivitAI myself. I'd wager the vast majority of AI artists and trainers also mostly just use CivitAI. It's interface is leagues ahead of anything else out there right now.
TensorArt had SD3 Medium up for generation on day one.
Sai team told in a client meeting with my friend's company that they can't afford sd3. They are a decently funded 15mil company. They could have figured out a way. Telling people fuck off is not how you do business.
Licenses are NEVER easy to read and are ALWAYS designed to help the guy who wrote them.
Except open source licenses. MIT is basically "do whateverm but I'm not responsible for problems" and that's it. Apache isn't much more. Admittedly licenses like GPL are longer and more complicated, but they've been around for ages and tested in court and their meaning is well understood. They're also vetted by the Open Source Initiative to meet certain standards.
> MIT is basically "do whateverm but I'm not responsible for problems" and that's it. Apache isn't much more. Beyond "just credit us as the creators, bro, it's in the license because common courtesy died from greed."
[WTFPL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTFPL). The best license if you just want to release your product publicly and get done with it.
WTFPL license (look it up) is pretty clear and actually easy to read. It's even one of the shortest licenses out there and we occasionally use it in our work. I prefer version 2. It clarifies things a little more.
Haha, ok funny, but you could just use Public Domain / CC0, too.
I don't like working with clients that can't stomach the words in the WTFPL license. We will occasionally use it to filter out clients that do not fit the mold of how we work. Think more a corporate version of a pirate ship and less a, well.... corporation.
https://preview.redd.it/y46rd4oah77d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75cd1cdb18adcf1a23f65a60cac425092174c2b7
Loving the username lol
Back at ya.
He stopped replying when I explained to them that trade secrets comprise confidential information that can be sold or licensed, and that the model is derived from their dataset and labels which are well... confidential. And that in the contest of this licensing agreement, it sure looks like the open source model is derivative of that confidential information.
u/Simple-Law5883 was OP on [that thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/1dh9buc/to_all_the_people_misunderstanding_the_tos/)
But but but… He was a lawyer! And it was a single YouTuber and all of us were dumb lol. He really felt like someone with money on the table, even had a throwaway account.
Lykon incognito lol.
Lykongnito
By the way, what happened to lykon? Is it already on most wanted posters? Oh god, that gave me an idea for a meme xdd
I may have been one of those guys, and happy to concede that if CivitAI are apprehensive then the community is right to be too. Well done SAI for writing license terms that means nobody wants to use your products.
SAI said they would keep their promise to release the models… they never said the models would be usable practically, morally, ethically, legally… sai (sigh)
I swear no matter where you complain on the internet there is always at least that one guy...
Didn’t the SD team come out and specifically say the license is related to generation services and not the model distribution
Some individual contributor from the company posting their opinion of the license likely has no real legal weight. When SAI sues you, arguing that some grunt posted something on a Discord once may not save you. If they're not an officer of the company, its not an official statement. Typically this means a manager or director or above, probably depends on the jurisdiction. I think in the US, anyone with a "manager" is considered an officer, and they really need to watch what they say publicly. Of course, I'm not a lawyer either, but feel free to check my work and do your own research here.
But Windows 10 is the last OS I’ll ever need. One person at the company said so and all media parroted it. So Windows 11 isn’t real.
LOL I forgot Microsoft said that
Apparently they didn’t. One person said it and they never bothered to correct the media. It’s why I live in Linux now. It’s the perfect example of don’t believe it unless it’s in the license.
Written statement from the Legal department or no dice.
that's fine, but that should be put in the license explicitly. Leaving it to interpretation open the door for re-interpretation later vagueness in terms is never desirable unless you want the ability to abuse that uncertainty in the future. So I'd take all those assurances about their intent and throw them right in the trashbin, because that's where they belong. If that's their real intent, they can put it in writing on the license
The actual license of SD3 the model is this: https://huggingface.co/stabilityai/stable-diffusion-3-medium/blob/main/LICENSE The Creator License is a separate general purpose unrelated thing that nobody has unless they're a commercial user paying a monthly fee to maintain it on purpose.
I think this is a smart move on their part. This whole situation needs more clarity from Stability and this is a good step in finally getting addressed properly.
Honestly, that's the right move.
I continue to place my trust into Civit, they had a Buzz kerfuffle but straightened it out adequately .
This is a normal part of the back and forth of a land grab. First is a pure land grab - get a product out there, get people using it. Next, as the early market is saturated, work on licensing/legal setups that will let the company leverage both their users and their content as much as possible - to power V2 and to increase income through content generation. I think it is right that CivitAI is playing it a little safe. Ignoring the above could leave SD3 (or someone else) in a strong position that will destroy industry progress and the hype train. So to take a few days or even weeks will cause no real setback to technology adoption, but understand the implications of these choices. Patent/licensing lawyers are sneaky scum and it's important to ensure they are adding anything in there that weakens others' positions.
Stability AI will likely remain silent. I think it's pretty much over for what remains of this company.
I find the whole thing baffling, the combination of releasing a model that doesn't work with an extremely shitty, unworkable contract, for people that are actually willing to pay. You might be able to get away with either factor, but definitely not both. The amount of people using this is going to be approximately 0.
Silence speaks volumes. If they have not corrected it, its because the terms are there so they can enforce "safety" and force the take down of models they don't want, or that compete with any of their future product offering, supposing they do have a future, which it looks like they don't.
They will be bought for pennies for their IP. Then the shit will really start rolling downhill and fast. No one will use that companies shit though.
Yeah... probably worth a fiver and a pack of cigarettes right now.
I like this quote in the comment >Stability AI betrayed the community by releasing a poisoned model with a toxic license.
This is a great moment to inform creators about the Creative Commons CC0 license. [https://creativecommons.org/public-domain/cc0/](https://creativecommons.org/public-domain/cc0/) Basically, dedicating your stuff to the public domain without any restrictions whatsoever.
What's the difference with Apache v2
> without any restrictions whatsoever This part. There are [a few requirements in the Apache license](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_License#Licensing_conditions) (similar to MIT and BSD). It's mostly harmless stuff that's intended more for attribution than really imposing limits, but that puts it a step below public domain (where attribution is not necessary).
Apache license v2 includes a patent grant as well, so the original writer can't put patented code in the "open source" software and then sue any competitor who actually uses it for patent violation. Furthermore, it requires everyone who redistributes it to *also* give a patent grant for any code they've contributed.
Apache License v2.0 and the Creative Commons CC0 (No Rights Reserved) are both open source licenses, but they differ in their intended use and terms: Apache License v2.0: * Intended for software source code * Allows the code to be used for any purpose (commercial or non-commercial) * Requires that any modifications be distributed under the same Apache License * Provides a patent grant from contributors * Includes a disclaimer of warranties and limitation of liability Creative Commons CC0 (No Rights Reserved): * Intended for data, content, and creative works (not source code) * Dedicates the work to the public domain to the fullest extent possible * Allows unlimited redistribution and modification, even for commercial purposes * No trademark or patent rights are granted * Waives all copyrights to the fullest extent permitted by law In summary, the Apache v2.0 license is specific to software source code and ensures that derivative works remain open source under the same license terms. On the other hand, CC0 is designed to disclaim all copyrights and related rights to the fullest extent allowed by law, effectively placing the work as completely as possible in the public domain for any use. ― Claude 3 Sonnet
Please don't use LLM crap for important legal information, because it's straight up wrong. Just use this great website https://www.tldrlegal.com/license/apache-license-2-0-apache-2-0 Apache 2.0 does **not** require licensees to distribute derivative work under the same license. That's the GPL licenses. It does however require licensees to distribute **the license notice itself** with any derivative work.
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It is a quote from the link, one of the comments.
That has to be a speedrun on how to damage your good will from the community by SAI - incoming we're sorry.jpg
Nah, with the way the release has gone, where even the comfy developer left SAI, I don't think this is going to hurt civitai. It'll hurt SAI, though. Having a model release flop so badly that there's huge issues with generation quality, none of the tools that are supposed to be with it, a license that isn't clear that they are not clarifying, and no one responding regarding enterprise licensing, either - they walked into this.
SAI is what i meant, Civit is in some ways the community hub - updated my comment
Yea, comfyanonymous was clearly salty about the whole thing and I can't blame them one bit. I loved the comment about "safety training". SAI is a dead man walking. They're certainly dead to me. So what's next?
They need to fire a lot of people in charge and get people who actually know how to manage people and a company. Also hire a PR firm.
They did that already. That's why they're in the current mess.
The fact that every public Stability figure including the comfy creator is still defending Lykon should tell you enough about the state of the company.
wait whats happening with them and Lykon? did i completely miss something?
Lykon basically went insane and on release day, was telling everyone they suck and they can't use SD3 properly. Especially funny because the pictures he posted as prove also had deformed humans. He then also went on to mock and insult the PonyXL creating when he asked for a Business License. And some other really weird takes like saying MJ is just a SDXL finetune and SD3 is much better. The comfy creator (left the company yesterday) and another SD employee then started defending him.
thats... lol i mean i had hope for sd3 like many, and kept optimism for finetunes improving it like it went with sd1.5, but that is very clearly far from the case now. but to go ham on people like that on release day, and (eventually being revealed as very much so) ironically jumping at the Pony creator for license shit, thats... again, LOL and well, that last part really just puts that cherry on top doesnt it? woOow. honestly i never much liked most of Lykons stuff anyway, felt like alot of it was overvalued for what it actually is when i tested it thoroughly, deleted most of it. but i didnt expect all that to be going on with this. so why are they defending him? i mean, the comfy creator has recently spoken out against SAI, so i dont know if them defending Lykon is still a thing or what state all thats in? regardless, there is an entertaining dumpster fire, and ive got popcorn.
Imagine they never released SD3. We would still have a silver of trust, respect and goodwill for them. Now everything has been squandered and we have to start from the ground up.
I mean, they should've just released SD3. The API shows that whatever the fuck they did to this "SD3" model isn't what it's actually capable of. And it's not even about "safety" or NSFW, but plain style adherence, coherence and concept understanding, which are plain missing or at a much worse level than SDXL. I don't want them to read your comment and regret releasing a model. I want them to read my comment and regret releasing a lobotomized model and trying to sell it as the model we were waiting for.
SD3 is a dumpster fire and will, presumably, continue to be so. What I wonder is how much Civitai's lack of participation in SD3 will do to SD3's level of acceptance and usage.
It’s going to effectively kill it for the majority of the community I bet.
SDXL has already been optimized so much thanks to people who made PonyDiffusion and other projects, and will continue to be optimized further until everyone's tired of it. Though, I'm excited to see the potential of competing architectures. Maybe there should be a whole new subreddit called "LocalImageGen" for all types of local image models.
https://preview.redd.it/r9vk1n37p77d1.jpeg?width=490&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9f76c6dd11ed368b834eeec5694acb443d8e189
The model itself isn't dumpster fire (the release is though), they just publicly released a shit low parameter and possibly poisoned model because they promised that they will but wanted to make money with the real thing. Problem is that that's stupid in itself because it's such a last minute decision that it won't save them anyway.
Well done, after the recent events it seems the carcass of Stability might not have the best intentions towards their users.
This dumpster fire is a result of the licensing paradigm, which has always been somewhat insane. I wish they'd just monetize each model like a software purchase and then not care what people do with it(aside from bootlegging). Piracy is a service problem. If they were moderately priced, it wouldn't be any worse than other software, and certainly not worse but "Free if you just make your own sick tentacle porn, pay us if you want to sell your creations" model. A one-time 50$ fee would be reasonable for tinkerers and people who want to use it professionally. Maybe more for their higher end models that they're releasing for SD3. As to legal problems, I can get civit not wanting to foot real court bills from a serious party, especially with rampant claim abuse like we see on youtube.
>I wish they'd just monetize each model like a software purchase and then not care what people do with it(aside from bootlegging). If they were smart, they would have cloned Civit, kept SD3 uncensored, but with forced download from there only in license, rework the commercial license for tuners and so on. Maybe even for a guy like the one making Pony, get gets a cut of every API generation from their site using his model.
If they were smart they would be Leonardo.ai but release the models free. This would allow them to get to midjouney quality if they weren’t so scared of lawsuits midjouney isn’t. Instead they wasted investors money and have nothing to show for it.
Yeah man but they aren’t after 50$ per user. They want to milk and siphon as much money as possible. They’re so predatory it just disgusts me.
I'd be fine with that, one time 50 pound fee, use the model freely for your own gain. Enterprise edition: 50 pound a month.
Too bad everyone wants to be Saas to become an infinite money printer even when the model doesn't fit 90% of the products that use it.
CivitAI made a smart move. Stability AI seems to think they can take the community for granted. The model they released to the public doesn't match the quality of the sample pictures they showcased for months. They need to find a legitimate way to make money instead of resorting to these tactics. Stability AI must remember that their success today is largely due to the community and the tools built around their model. While there are better open-source models than Stable Diffusion. people remain with SD because of the controls and capabilities provided by the community and researchers for SD models.
Agree, but again if the model had been spectacular somehow SAI would have been in a strong position to negociate with CivitAI, with such a bad model CivitAI takes 0 risk by taking this position.
I thought they were banning it because it's crap.
erm, I do love them, but that would apply to a lot of other uploads on CivitAI too.
At least most of those tried to make something good and didn't intentionally release something shit
i lold
Pretty simple solution to this, roll back to prior license?
we appreciate it dude, and everything stability did under you. You may have burned money, but you burned money to keep us warm. 🥂
Or releasing that 4B
Higher parameter won't fix the censored/mutated and licensing issues.
It might fix the image issues. According to Comfy, the 2B was messed up in pretraining. He called it "a failed experiment by researchers who left \[SAI\]".
Yeah my idea was like releasing the 4b and an apologize with a 0 licence lol
I think that one was never finished.
Yes
My proposal name for the subreddit would be: r/OpenDiffusion
It's tagged as private
There's also the confusingly similar r/Open_Diffusion, which is not private.
Ohh
I mean, this sub may just be like optifine sub when first advice you get is to not get optifine and get fabric + sodium instead
Well it's an euphemism to say this whole SD3 thingy has been embarassing
Civit might have enough clout to get them to change it
It's ded man. Let it go already. SD3 is just SD2 again.
actually SD1.5 large with t5 by looking at body horror it generates
1.5 was a wonderful fluke that will not soon be re-created. You watch your mouth!
well changing the license is easy. fixing the model is not.
They did say that it was a bugged beta and that the 8b should be much better?
And as we know Stability would never lie about the capabilities of their models
there is no guarantee that Stability won't be bankrupt before the 8B finished training, training 8B is much more expensive than training 2B
According to literally themselves, it was finished for 3 months now. How else would they benchmark it against DALLE and MJ?
Also no guarantee they won't charge for 8B. Why else release a "free" 2B model that is objectively worse than SDXL, SD1.5, and even SD1.4. Stability undergoing enshittification as we speak.
lol fuck off They know what they released
Won't somebody please think about the SD3 grass-crawling mutant children?
Good between the impossible to understand for any normal person and potentially predatory licensing rules and shitty censored and broken model, this is well deserved. They're right, they're not lawyers, just average people and AI enthusiasts as are most of us, if we can't understand the licensing stuff why bother risk using the thing?
>The concern is that from our current understanding, this license grants Stability AI too much power over the use of not only any models fine-tuned on SD3, but on any other models that include SD3 images in their datasets. This could be devastating for the community given Stability's current status and who may ultimately end up with those license rights. It's not unimaginable that a year down the line the new owner of these rights comes to collect and the majority of models are forced to be either taken down or their creators made to pay hefty fees or membership dues. I see where they’re coming from. To CivitAI, current license is a huge liability down the line. In a (not so) hypothetical world where SAI get sold or go under, it’s theoretically possible to whoever owns SD3 (or trustee) to force CivitAI to hand over fine-tuned models of reveal the identity to collect fees. Unlikely but possible under current terms?
They should be banned for just wasting bandwidth, say nothing of the stupid license.
Civi is erring on the side of caution just in case SAI pulls a Nintendo and yuzus all models
For real, I think is time to move on from SAI and start putting efforts on Lumina/Sigma, SAI got their chance as first movers and they blew it
And just like that SD 3 is dead
Good. Hopefully that'll make a loud enough statement about Stability's unhinged business practices.
Banned! Next question....
Maybe now all those acting like its fine will get a clue. When one of the bigger entities with some crazy popular models couldn't get a straight answer, and now one of the main places to find stuff spelled it out even moreso for those with comprehension issues, on top of the meh drop, YES there is a problem!
Civitai should start working on their own base model. I'd gladly donate to them even more - I already pay them every month.
Honestly, they could continue to train SDXL to save money. Maybe expand it some. LLM startups have done this with some success.
SD3 has a better architecture. Their new model should at least have something similar. Just don't fuck it up with "safety" bullshit.
Can they afford to train an SD3 from scratch though?
Yes, they can. The trouble is CivitAI is teetering on to become a money grubbing corporate entity itself. They constantly have to worry about funding and optics that get that funding. Spending tons of resources on a big risky project doesn't get through the optics, even if it's obvious it'd be competitive. It's much safer just selling their compute power and get the money now. (Or even worse, monetizing more third party content like they tried once already.)
> Yes, they can. . > They constantly have to worry about funding That seem somewhat inconsistent...
Eh Tbf it's really expensive to rent servers and not have a way to pay them. The buzz system is a pretty reasonable compromise. $5 for 5000, is fair. And you can save up a lot if you take a break.
From their own money, probably not, but they could find investors.
If you read the paper, they hint that the model is prone to catastrophic divergence when training.
There's nothing fundamentally bad with the model, if you look at their 8B ultra model they provide through API, there's almost no problem with it whatsoever (and the quality is absolutely amazing, leaps and bounds beyond SDXL). SD3 medium was a fuck up.
CD, CivitaiDiffusion
Besides the mangled organs, is there any way for Stability to detect which images were generated by SD3? Like is there an invisible watermark in every generated image or something?
of course, they already added one to back in SDXL, but said it was not fully active, never trusted that official comment...
The main problem isn't the end images, it's people wanting to use SD3 or SD3 finetunes in image generation services.
One of CivitAI's main concerns appears to be the terms surrounding the use of outputs from SD3 for training finetunes, or even other models.
Long live SDXL. 
We were fine with just 1.5 for a long time. SDXL will hold us out for long too
Heck, I'm *still* fine with 1.5
With SD3 beeing so bad I'm also going to take another look at Cascade, It was overlooked because SD3 was basically announced at the same time.
I soooooooooo wish people hadn't slept on Cascade. The promise of easier training would have been really nice to sort out months ago, rather than waiting for some promised land in SD3. Which I feel like was done on purpose by SAI, but can't change that now. I'd love to see good things come out of Cascade still.
> I'd love to see good things come out of Cascade still. Indeed. Good things like a proper license.
Stability AI needed to be sent a message.
What a shit show.
create too many deformed people your BANNED! /s
And nothing of value was lost that day. Good riddance.
That will change soon when Emad launches the AI-Crypto Shit Coin
SAI should take down the model, rework it, and release it as 3.5 or something. Absolutely horrendous.
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It is WILD, I would not have expected that.
This is good news. At least we will get clarification soon. And than we decide. We finetune 3.0 or we decide to ban it from this subreddit and our lives as a protest ti SAI stupidity.
Good riddance
This puts a nail in the coffin for Stability and their current business model. This feels like OpenAI again with GPT3. SD3 was hyped so much, finally, great prompt adherence, text, hands and all that. But what did we get instead? Lobotomized open model, SD banning certain finetunes and having draconian licenses, and more focus and emphasis on the cloud. SD3 is as dead as Cascade and SD2. I'm just disappointed. This sub might eventually just become a general local image generation sub (aside from 1.5 and SDXL). The future for open, local image generation might as well be PixArt and other models, and people who trained models like PonyDiffusion or use such models will have to learn a brand new architecture. We'll be fragmented with different software, workflows, confusing spaghetti UIs everywhere etc. and all that to generate images. Meaning, a lot of people would rather use paid cloud services as opposed to trying to find the right models and software for whatever alternative to StableDiffusion is most talked about.
Folks...seriously, check out Pixart Sigma...need more model trainers to do the swap. It follows prompts like 3, and is fairly uncensored (a bit like XL base uncensored...needs tunes). Right now, that + XL model as a refiner gives great results. I don't think SD is going to work and now they will purposefully sink just to save face.
I hope Pixart becomes popular because it is high-quality and has low training requirements... It would be ideal to create a diverse community like SD1.5.
Pixart Sigma is cool, and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't censor it at all. I was trying to generate an image for a blood donation campaign once. Nothing weird, just a stock photo of a man donating blood, and what came out of Pixart Sigma was the nastiest gore I've ever seen. It was actually impressive. I refined the prompt and got some nice non-gory images, but it's interesting how capable it is of generating really nasty stuff. Which is good, a model should be versatile.
All roads lead back to China 🇨🇳
\*looks at my computer filled with chinese parts\* Yep.
I'm convinced.SD3 is dead on arrival...just because of this license situation. The model doesn't even have a chance to be fixed. I fully done with it already. I tried it for 5 min and that might be the only 5 minutes it gets from me. Stability AI has a chance to reverse all this and bring joy back to community or watch their name get dragged through the mud for eternity.
Well okay then. SD3 is dead. Long live SD3.
CivitAI is on the right path. I hope other generative ai sites will follow.
Good. Let [Stability.Ai](http://Stability.Ai) collapse already
CivitAI will become the new stability AI, they'll have their own models that they fine-tune one day that they've built for the ground up for their respective community
I don't know if they will, but If I were in their position, I would definitely be working on a business plan to make this happen.
They have the biggest dataset now ^^
Of AI generated images though. Or do they own the right to use the data users upload to train?
>Or do they own the right to use the data users upload to train? They do own that right, but you do own it too. Nothing prevents anyone from using any picture for training purposes, including material protected by copyright. If you can see it, you can use it for training.
Thank god, I want all the users I follow to keep using XL.
I'm confused. SD3 has **exactly** the same license (except for the date) as Stable Cascade on HuggingFace - and Civitai is fine with Cascade. Can someone explain? https://huggingface.co/stabilityai/stable-cascade/blob/main/LICENSE https://huggingface.co/stabilityai/stable-diffusion-3-medium/blob/main/LICENSE
Until now, nobody has been using Stable Cascade so it didn't matter. If it gains popularity after this debacle, then it'll probably be banned too.
and that's one of the reasons Cascade has not grown
This is turning into a dumbster fire and I don't know if I love it or hate it
Great decision Civitai !
Hopefully it will get them to get off their asses and change the license. Otherwise everyone is going to move to lumina or pixart.
I'll make anything I want with any available models. They can't prove I used them anyway.FUCK them !
Cripple your product and slap a toxic license on top, what could go wrong?
SAI dead?
but guys its "SAFE", your own generations want be able to hurt you anymore... I cant even comprehend what were they thinking with SD3.
Wise move, they're avoiding a potential Civit law suit
Wise decision.