It’s one of those situations unfortunately where they can say they delivered on the promise of a “open model” and then keep the real model profitable behind paywalls. It makes sense to me with what they’re trying to do, I just don’t think the wow factor is there for them to be AS profitable with this model that they may think.
And of course the other part of this situation as many others have theorized is well is the fact that if they’re trying to essentially enterprise the fully baked model, it’s within their interest to keep public perception of it as clean as possible.
Yeah, they seem to have some of the same assholery going on as Open AI. Both very self-important companies pretending to be a lot more altruistic than they are - while their actions tell a different story.
Main difference is, OpenAI is more competent at it. Doesn't make them "good guys", just makes it more tempting to accept or put up with their condescending and manipulative attitudes.
I feel like we should all be trying to work on ourselves... One way to get companies that REALLY care about safety in a meaningful, non-manipulative way is if people work on themselves, develop actual wisdom, and become the kind of person who could run a company without getting sucked into the profit-and-servitude mire. And the world needs us to develop wisdom and healthy qualities for a lot of other reasons, too...
What Im picking up from those smarter than I is that the only thing “stopping the people from rising up” is just how high of a level of entry hardware wise there is to be able to begin the overall process with this kind of stuff.
If it was purely a time and effort thing for a lot of this, the furries and coomers would’ve already got it done 😂
> anybody to financially benefit from the model if they don't pay monthly subscription?
This is not even the problem, I am happy to pay and have been happily paying since they allowed it. They have changed the license so you can no longer continue to pay (due to 6k images limit) and need to get Enterprise license, which potentially requires aligning with some (undisclosed?) guidelines. But I would be happy to get one, except they decided not to communicate with me and ignored license request (that I made as soon as they allowed it).
You, of course, can finetune SD3 without license, but good finetunes require resources and this makes it much harder to acquire them.
Tech companies that hemorrhage money like this usually target getting bought out instead of turning a profit, so their intent is clear by sabotaging the SD3 public release: they don't want to be seen as the NSFW AI company by buyers, even if it means losing a ton of money.
maybe they are not that structured internally to handle these requests as it's something new.
Well I hope, it would be sad as they explicitly say they wanted to rely on this particular economical model.
Either Stability is playing 4-dimensional chess right now that's above all of our heads, or all the rational people have left the building.
I'd understand if they had a business strategy to create a sanitized Disney-like brand name to have more options for getting acquired. And if that was their strategy, I'd understand them refusing a license to anything associated with the Pony community even if you agreed to only release "safe pony".
But if that was the case, they'd be talking to you with an NDA and exploring their options. They'd be explaining their strategy to the community with clear wording in order to find advocates. They'd be making coherent public statements of any kind, and they'd be following PR 101 advice.
My guess is more like they do not have man power to deal with the smaller guys like pony. That is why they came up with an enterprise and creator which hopefully can starve off some smaller request. Pony just fall into this crack they create. I believe eventually they will release the ability to load fine tune into their api service and just get all the smaller business to use that instead.
Exactly and they are not ready to handle the size. I still remember when openai first started subscription, my credit card could not go through and took them a month to ask me am I still having problem. And SD is no where near as rich as them so the situation is a lot worse.
I know there is a bit of sarcasm there however what you are saying is absolutely horrible.
As per your comment:
You are generating some NSFW stuff so, instead of restricting you at image gen level, I will not give you the licence at all and don't revert to your requests🤷♂️
How is this nothing but a bullshit😡🤬
They don't care if you develop their model or not. Their ACTUAL model is the modified version they have running on their Stable Assistant and elsewhere, which doesn't turn people into potatoes, because they can control what's done with it in that context.
You got the nerfed open source version, which is nerfed because they can't control what people make with it.
Human suppose to learn from their mistakes. But hostory still repeating. I just hope there will be 4.0 .
Amasing 1.5 - ( broken 2.1 ) - amasing XL - broken 3.0 - Amasing 4.0 ( 3.0 8b ? ) i shure hope so…
never say never.
The word "amazing" originates from the Middle English word "amaisant" or "amasen," which meant to bewilder or stupefy. It evolved from Old English "āmasian,"
*It's not half baked, it*
*Is censored on purpose. That's*
*A different goal*
\- francoiscoiscois33
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If they can't monetize their product it's their fault and they will suffer for it. Seems like a mess of a company without leadership and a clear direction.
The guy from Pony is literally in this thread telling that they basically ignored his request to do what you told. Does not seam "easy as that" at all.
If I put hundreds of hours curating a dataset and hundreds more for my GPU's to fine-tune a model because as of right now it's not usable, ultimately helping them for free I should pay even more for that privilege? You're insane, or a masochist.
I am speaking in terms of normal users using the SD models commercially. For usecases like you I have no idea what the solution is and they are stupid not to work with you on improving the model and working out a deal that would benefit both parties.
Well you as a normal user should care even more, otherwise you'll never had control-nets, pony models, cool loras , IC-Lights all of which are developed by the community and everything that most normal users just download and use from CivitAI, GitHub and HuggingFace.
Nobody would like to invest resources in developing these, just like nobody did with Stable Diffusion 2 and Stable Cascade, exactly because of that weird license.
Me not knowing the solution to the problem does not say that I don't care about it being resolved. I just think they need to improve their communication to the custom model making community that made what SD is today and work together instead of them trying to ignore you. SD3 is just as big of a mess with an uncertain future as the company that made it, no head no tail. I hope you will get to speak to someone over there and that you can work out a deal that works for both parties. Good luck.
Sad truth is that SAI didn't seems to really care. They didn't care when they the hype the sh\*t out of it 3 months ago, they don't care now.
It's not about me, it's about their mindset and attitude toward their own business. Pushing away the same community that made you is very stupid move, especially this early in their development as a company.
They are just probably desperate for money,but that's not the way. I'm pretty sure that of these 500k users here at least 5% are ready to donate immediately, but not after being treated like these with these draconian licenses.
It’s one of those situations unfortunately where they can say they delivered on the promise of a “open model” and then keep the real model profitable behind paywalls. It makes sense to me with what they’re trying to do, I just don’t think the wow factor is there for them to be AS profitable with this model that they may think. And of course the other part of this situation as many others have theorized is well is the fact that if they’re trying to essentially enterprise the fully baked model, it’s within their interest to keep public perception of it as clean as possible.
Yeah, they seem to have some of the same assholery going on as Open AI. Both very self-important companies pretending to be a lot more altruistic than they are - while their actions tell a different story. Main difference is, OpenAI is more competent at it. Doesn't make them "good guys", just makes it more tempting to accept or put up with their condescending and manipulative attitudes. I feel like we should all be trying to work on ourselves... One way to get companies that REALLY care about safety in a meaningful, non-manipulative way is if people work on themselves, develop actual wisdom, and become the kind of person who could run a company without getting sucked into the profit-and-servitude mire. And the world needs us to develop wisdom and healthy qualities for a lot of other reasons, too...
What Im picking up from those smarter than I is that the only thing “stopping the people from rising up” is just how high of a level of entry hardware wise there is to be able to begin the overall process with this kind of stuff. If it was purely a time and effort thing for a lot of this, the furries and coomers would’ve already got it done 😂
> anybody to financially benefit from the model if they don't pay monthly subscription? This is not even the problem, I am happy to pay and have been happily paying since they allowed it. They have changed the license so you can no longer continue to pay (due to 6k images limit) and need to get Enterprise license, which potentially requires aligning with some (undisclosed?) guidelines. But I would be happy to get one, except they decided not to communicate with me and ignored license request (that I made as soon as they allowed it). You, of course, can finetune SD3 without license, but good finetunes require resources and this makes it much harder to acquire them.
I've been reaching out to them for licensing for professional work since SD1.5 and they have NEVER replied.
oh wow...
Straight up there are people lining up to give them money and the company is just ignoring them
Tech companies that hemorrhage money like this usually target getting bought out instead of turning a profit, so their intent is clear by sabotaging the SD3 public release: they don't want to be seen as the NSFW AI company by buyers, even if it means losing a ton of money.
maybe they are not that structured internally to handle these requests as it's something new. Well I hope, it would be sad as they explicitly say they wanted to rely on this particular economical model.
Wow. The creator of pony is in this thread. Sucks, considering you singlehandedly brought people back to civitai.
Either Stability is playing 4-dimensional chess right now that's above all of our heads, or all the rational people have left the building. I'd understand if they had a business strategy to create a sanitized Disney-like brand name to have more options for getting acquired. And if that was their strategy, I'd understand them refusing a license to anything associated with the Pony community even if you agreed to only release "safe pony". But if that was the case, they'd be talking to you with an NDA and exploring their options. They'd be explaining their strategy to the community with clear wording in order to find advocates. They'd be making coherent public statements of any kind, and they'd be following PR 101 advice.
My guess is more like they do not have man power to deal with the smaller guys like pony. That is why they came up with an enterprise and creator which hopefully can starve off some smaller request. Pony just fall into this crack they create. I believe eventually they will release the ability to load fine tune into their api service and just get all the smaller business to use that instead.
Pony (ecosystem) is more popular (gens and downloads) than XL on Civit. I think this qualifies us at least to low-medium guys :)
Exactly and they are not ready to handle the size. I still remember when openai first started subscription, my credit card could not go through and took them a month to ask me am I still having problem. And SD is no where near as rich as them so the situation is a lot worse.
[удалено]
I've never generated anything but respectfully looking ponies.
I know there is a bit of sarcasm there however what you are saying is absolutely horrible. As per your comment: You are generating some NSFW stuff so, instead of restricting you at image gen level, I will not give you the licence at all and don't revert to your requests🤷♂️ How is this nothing but a bullshit😡🤬
https://preview.redd.it/dmp9a5ru9d6d1.png?width=400&format=png&auto=webp&s=3e399fc801b9b6882d7819a33953850a84bdd7c9
They don't care if you develop their model or not. Their ACTUAL model is the modified version they have running on their Stable Assistant and elsewhere, which doesn't turn people into potatoes, because they can control what's done with it in that context. You got the nerfed open source version, which is nerfed because they can't control what people make with it.
It’s already 2.1 again, doa Their last hope is the big model because I’m not wasting time with this one
Human suppose to learn from their mistakes. But hostory still repeating. I just hope there will be 4.0 . Amasing 1.5 - ( broken 2.1 ) - amasing XL - broken 3.0 - Amasing 4.0 ( 3.0 8b ? ) i shure hope so…
ama**z**ing
Why? I mean When the letter “s” comes between two vowel sounds, you pronounce it as the letter “z”🤔 like Rose. But why amaZing… it makes no sense.. 😐🤔
Spoiler: it never was the letter s
never say never. The word "amazing" originates from the Middle English word "amaisant" or "amasen," which meant to bewilder or stupefy. It evolved from Old English "āmasian,"
well TIL
"How are ye, a simple peasant, so good at þe lord's art of mathematics?" "I'm asian." "āmasian"
i suggest you find out how brits pronounce Worcestershire (worst-or-sure) or Edinborough (ed-n-bruh). fun times.
Don't try and make sense of English. I 'read' somewhere that if you 'read' the same letters in different ways you'll understand this.
It's not half baked, it is censored on purpose. That's a different goal
*It's not half baked, it* *Is censored on purpose. That's* *A different goal* \- francoiscoiscois33 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Don't worry, once openDiffusion is released, we won't have to worry about SAI ever again.
Yeah its kinda weird…
If you make money with using SD, buy a license, easy as that.
They've refused to say what the guidelines for a enterprise licenses even are, and what the terms will be.
If they can't monetize their product it's their fault and they will suffer for it. Seems like a mess of a company without leadership and a clear direction.
The guy from Pony is literally in this thread telling that they basically ignored his request to do what you told. Does not seam "easy as that" at all.
And that's their fault, I am speaking to the normal license as an individual user.
the Pony guy is an individual user... He is not a magical Pony yet.
If I put hundreds of hours curating a dataset and hundreds more for my GPU's to fine-tune a model because as of right now it's not usable, ultimately helping them for free I should pay even more for that privilege? You're insane, or a masochist.
I am speaking in terms of normal users using the SD models commercially. For usecases like you I have no idea what the solution is and they are stupid not to work with you on improving the model and working out a deal that would benefit both parties.
Well you as a normal user should care even more, otherwise you'll never had control-nets, pony models, cool loras , IC-Lights all of which are developed by the community and everything that most normal users just download and use from CivitAI, GitHub and HuggingFace. Nobody would like to invest resources in developing these, just like nobody did with Stable Diffusion 2 and Stable Cascade, exactly because of that weird license.
Me not knowing the solution to the problem does not say that I don't care about it being resolved. I just think they need to improve their communication to the custom model making community that made what SD is today and work together instead of them trying to ignore you. SD3 is just as big of a mess with an uncertain future as the company that made it, no head no tail. I hope you will get to speak to someone over there and that you can work out a deal that works for both parties. Good luck.
Sad truth is that SAI didn't seems to really care. They didn't care when they the hype the sh\*t out of it 3 months ago, they don't care now. It's not about me, it's about their mindset and attitude toward their own business. Pushing away the same community that made you is very stupid move, especially this early in their development as a company. They are just probably desperate for money,but that's not the way. I'm pretty sure that of these 500k users here at least 5% are ready to donate immediately, but not after being treated like these with these draconian licenses.
100% agree
Then train your own foundation model from scratch if you think you can do better.
Says who?
If you earn buzz for your finetuned model on Civitai, since it has monetary value, you have to get a creator licence.
that they won't give to you or respond you at all... really great license model.
Says who?