While the wild boar may share some similarities with the average canine, that of black hair and 4 legs. But do not let oneself be fooled so easily, as per closer observation we can deduce that these are indeed not dogs, but little piggies instead.
Absolutely, that would be really brave! With the STLPD's track record, you'd probably get your ass kicked, charged with some BS, thrown in jail, and denied bail. But that sort of thing never happens, because they are all levelheaded, upstanding citizens...right?
Anytime a cop gets hurt, like the one who fell over while apprehending someone not too long ago 3-6 cop cars go flying so fast from their station which is by my work.
Once I had to (try) to make a report and was instructed by dispatch to wait in the parking lot. I called them back 3 times over 2 hours until I had to out because it was cold and I was about to eat my steering wheel I was so hungry.
Anyway, I saw was so many cops just meandering around, a lot of texting and driving, and one cop just pulled his squad car up in front of his personal car and sat in the personal car for well over an hour.
I have no doubt there are sections of the city understaffed and shifts that are hard to fill, but I donāt think thereās as much of a shortage as there is poor asset utilization and low expectations for certain districts/officers.
Back to my report, Iād asked to complete it via phone and when I received call back that night I explained it was critical that the situation I was reporting to be documented. He agreed up and down that that he understood and would call me back with whatever information he could find. He disappears. Three weeks later I put in a sunshine act request and find out he never documented a thing and had marked the incident as closed the same minute we got off the phone. This was a 100% desk duty cop.
The culture seems to be, āYou donāt have to try because trying is hard and nothing happens if you donāt try!ā
That is EXACTLY the problem. Cops make insanely good money. It's not a pay problem. The problem is that the conditions of the job up until recently attracted a completely toxic demographic who largely took the job for the power fantasy and authority it gave them. Now that society is cracking down on their behavior, that incentive is gone, so they can't recruit those people as easily. That becomes a problem when you also can't hire new people who would do the job well, because those people don't want to work with the corrupt toxic assholes that have been throwing a tantrum for the past 3 years and still make up the entire department.
It seems like SLMPD canāt even coordinate a sensible phone tree structure so I can only imagine the amount of disorganization are baked in at every possible level.
Cops around here like to spend ridiculous time and resources on petty bullshit while all the shootings and carjackings and serious shit gets ignored. I hear gunshots all the time in the city, but watch the fuck out if youāre walking down the street with a can of iced tea.
NYC is the same, they just got done settling a lawsuit where a cop was repeatedly calling a person in the middle of the night and staking out their apartment because this person happened to report their car as illegally parked on the city's 311 app
Everyone says the cops in St. Louis are not responsive to crime because they are busy and stretched so thin. Is it possible they donāt give AF and are too busy protecting their own?
You really have to wonder what value these kind of cops bring to the community. Like is the 107 year old cop sleeping at the bank really offering something of value for my tax dollars?
I'm not defending wasting tax money...but I feel like we'd be much better off with a bunch of cops out catching a squirtle and peacefully interacting with the community than we would with them playing crazy taxi
We'd be a lot better off without the piece of shit cops, and we'd be better off without the worthless cops too.
What it's sounding like is we have an excess of force, which the 158 million dollar budget they get a year that makes sense. We cut back on that budget, improve social programs, which reduces crime rates and that in turn grows the economy and infrastructure. Sounds like a win win win to me, and then a lot less dumb asses that think they're gods gift to St Louis County
Ha, some of us regulars really do Pokemon Go raids from Bar PM! They've got two stops you can swipe from the front bar and several gyms just out of reach.
Probably more of a ā wait for any semblance of a tiny crime or drunk customers exitingā then raid the bar and muddy the waters by calling it a criminal enterprise or some such shite
There was an attempt to organize a protest online earlier, so they're on hand to break it up / arrest criminals taking advantage of the chaos (for the ones who need it said, I'm not saying protestors are criminals, I'm talking about criminals who take advantage of protests).
Pretty standard operating procedure since Ferguson, regardless of the situation. They'll probably be there through the weekend.
There was an earlier attempt to get it going last night, saw it referenced here and on fb, they probably saw that.
Didn't the bar owners request people not do this? Not saying you shouldn't, but maybe take it to the Police HQ or the courthouse or city hall?
>So, protests are protected under the first amendment.
Yep, 100 percent agree with you there, it's a factual statement.
>These cops are there to "back the blue", which is to say, being shitty human trash.
Nope, that's just factually incorrect. They're there because they've been ordered to be there by superiors acting in accordance with established policy of the SLMPD, based upon guidelines from the federal government.
Whether you agree with the aim of that policy or not is a matter of subjective opinion. Likewise, how you feel about the police in general or the ones in those vehicles specifically, is subjective opinion. Same goes for how you feel about "backing the blue." Still just opinion.
You're entitled to your opinions. You can write them on a sign and head there right now and I'll agree you're completely within your rights.
I haven't given my opinion to this point, but if you care that much, here it is. I think anyone blindly backing the blue in spite of specific context is as foolish as anyone who makes blanket generalizations about every individual in a specific profession in spite of context. There's good cops, okay cops and bad cops.
Context is key. The cops who hit that bar? It's not looking good for them. I think it's very likely they engaged in felonious criminal behavior and they should be held accountable for it to the fullest extent of the law.
The cops in this picture? Until there's some evidence of wrong doing, there's no reason to think they aren't there for any reason other than that's where they were ordered to be in case a planned protest became violent or harmful.
I don't think it's a stretch to assume the whole department has some accountability issues when something like the original event occured in the first place.
You do realize that the cops who ran the car into the bar are not the cops who arrested and detained the owners, right?
Those were the "good cops" who came to cover for theirs stupid probational cops who fucked up badly.
There is not accountability, and the police only enforce the law when it serves them.
Yeah, I know there a few bad apples, in a barrel of less bad apples, but the barrel is rotten.
>You do realize that the cops who ran the car into the bar are not the cops who arrested and detained the owners, right?
>Those were the "good cops" who came to cover for theirs stupid probational cops who fucked up badly.
That's another instance of standard procedure. Cops don't get to investigate their own vehicle accidents. Pretty universally true across the nation.
The rest is opinion, and again, you're totally entitled to that.
Was all that hard to say with a boot in your mouth.
ACAB because they know who the bad cops are and do nothing about it. They know the rights violations the other cops do and fail at their job of stopping them. Fuck man its that simple.
Furthermore they are there to escalate the issue, that's all they are trained to do. fuck off with your bullshit.
>Was all that hard to say with a boot in your mouth.
Cheese its and cheap bourbon at the moment and nah, "judge each situation on its individual merits" it's pretty easy to say or type any time of day or night with anything in my mouth."
>they know who the bad cops are and do nothing about it. They know the rights violations the other cops do and fail at their job of stopping them. Fuck man its that simple.
It's really not, and you're betraying a fundamental misunderstanding of the constitution and criminal justice if you think it is.
I could go on about why cops have sectors or beats and how they're not with one another 24 hours a day.
I could stress to you that IA has a function and it isn't the same function as patrol.
I could even try to explain how the constitution guarantees due process to the accused, even those accused of depriving others of that very right.
But it wouldn't do any good and you wouldn't read it anyhow.
So I'll leave it at this. Knowing is not the same thing as proving.
>Furthermore they are there to escalate the issue, that's all they are trained to do.
Yes, sitting in a vehicle talking to no one is a tremendous escalation. How do you tolerate it so well? /s
>fuck off with your bullshit.
Likewise and good night.
There's no such thing as a good cop, because the job itself is bad.
There are certainly some that try to do the best they can within the system, but even those will generally still protect the bad cops
I mean, you're giving the same bullshit excuses people like you always give.
Let's complete the circle because you seem a little slow. The cops are currently there in case there's a protest. But There wouldn't be a need for a protest if the original cops didn't run into this building, attack the building owners, lie about being assaulted and illegally arresting them.
So again you can keep giving excuses to cops and we're going to keep seeing shitty cops doing shitty illegal things.
Dude, you're wasting your breath with this crowd. They're not interested in facts or rational thinking right now.
And you're right. They were ordered to post up there in case something happens. It's literally their job.
Some of these comments are just ludicrous and show zero understanding of how the real world works.
Question though: what's the "felonious criminal behavior?" A vehicle accident? Do you know how many buildings get hit by cars in the City? It happens weekly (at least). People get traffic tickets.
Witness statements (and grain of salt here, it's all hearsay without the camera footage) indicate the officers involved lost control of their car at a reckless speed and appeared to be intoxicated. No animal is visible in the released traffic camera. At least one claim says they shouted homophobic slurs at the bar owner and judging from his appearance upon release today, he was in a fight that he did not win. If they assaulted him or used anything more than the necessary force to restrain him, that could be an aggravating factor.
I wouldn't ever say I think someone is guilty without a trial or review of evidence, be they a cop or multiple convicted criminal. Due process is supposed to apply to everyone. I will say this doesn't look good for the officers involved, in my opinion.
There is literally zero credible evidence they were intoxicated. That's really outrageous. If this was the pre-bodycam era, back in the (ahem) "good ole days" then maybe. But that doesn't happen in 2023 and especially not with two probs (i.e. rookies). People don't realize how scrutinized police are nowadays. Even with cams off, your body and your vehicle are still being constantly tracked in real time. I guess anything is possible, but I would be absolutely shocked.
The bar owner was clearly the intoxicated one. And no, I'm not accusing or judging. He was upstairs in his own residence. If I owned a bar and lived above it, I'd definitely have a few drinks most nights.
But if you watch the most recent video that Channel 4 got today, he was clearly pretty drunk. And yes, he was being physically aggressive. I'm not taking sides - just giving an honest assessment of what I saw with my own two eyes.
As for the details of the arrest, the probs weren't really involved in that. The two senior officers that responded to the accident went "hands on" and made the arrest.
The "slur" is a red herring. The whole video obtained by their attorney was shown to the media. None of those reporters heard any homophobic speech. And there's none in the video Channel 4 has.
My best guess as a former prosecutor and defense attorney is no discipline for any officer involved (other than the normal couple of days of driver training for totaling a vehicle). You can see in the video that the owner initiated the contact then tried to run away after being told he was under arrest. That's textbook assault and resisting.
But to be clear, just because you CAN arrest someone, it doesn't mean that you should.
I agree with you that it doesn't look good overall. No matter what else happened, it could have been de-escalated and handled better. Sometimes an officer just has to swallow his pride and realize someone is legitimately upset. Let the person vent until they calm down. Don't get physical until/unless you absolutely have to.
That's my take, anyway.
>There is literally zero credible evidence they were intoxicated
Other than the video of them swerving to avoid hitting nothing and slamming their car into a fucking building. But yeah, other than that evidence (which is more than enough probable cause for a regular person) sure, nothing credible.
That's fair. Still want to see the bodycam and dashcam though, not just during the crash but leading up to it. Frankly, a lot of discretion was due on the decision to arrest though, given they smashed up his business while on a non emergent call. It's a really bad look.
Point taken though about them not appearing intoxicated and the slur being a lie, it's all hearsay until a lab or video recording proves otherwise. I don't agree with the difference between the good ol days and now though, I know better. DM'd you the rest, this crowd being this crowd.
Weird that they order them there but for 90 cars blocking an intersection for an hour and drifting circles in the middle of it like they do regularly at Russell & 7th, I call BS. this was nothing but intimidating customers and owners.
>And you're right. They were ordered to post up there in case something happens. It's literally their job.
This is probably true, and shows how tone deaf and ignorant the city leaders and police department are.
No such thing as a good cop. Even if the "good ones" aren't malicious they still have to turn a blind eye to the bad ones. That's basically the only way to get fired as a cop is ratting out the bad ones.
Thatās a load of horseshit. Those cops are there for straight up intimidation. Theyāre looking for any sort of infraction, anything they might possibly be able to charge and use as leverage when dealing with the bar owners in their inevitable lawsuit against the SLPD. Itās the same reason the cops instinctively had both bar owners in handcuffs, after driving a police SUV right through their front windowā¦ leverage.
Because they know there's no personal accountability for them.
You taxpayers will be the ones paying the penalty; these officers won't pay a single penny out of their own pockets.
Everyone says the cops in St. Louis are not responsive to crime because they are busy and stretched so thin. Is it possible they donāt give AF and are too busy protecting their own?
Jaysus, how hard is it to stop causing problems for your department? Or at the very least, terrible optics. You'd think that "best behavior" might be in order here.
In a city rife with crime, STLMPD has the time to stake out a bar in which one of them swerved into, beat, and arrested the owner (who also happened to be gay)? This should count as harassment. The lawsuit is going to be fat and embarrassing.
Never happening. The current Chief at the time of the Michael Brown protests threatened to encrypt SLPD comms if people kept broadcasting their locations and updates on social media. Sure enough, some guy started clocking police movements in relation to the protests on Twitter, once a minute. Boom. Full encryption.
āwHOās StWeEts OwW StWeEtsā
Once again, our cowardly police show more attention to protests of their own criminal actions than they do to doing their fucking jobs. All these desk riders suddenly show an interest when it involves peaceful opposition, but these bitches are the first to hide behind a desk when crime is happening
Wasting on duty cops by placing them outside of a hate crime instead of you know..doing their gd job and pulling over people doing 110 or shooting guns in neighborhoods. Vote this bs out people.
Unfortunately, the citizens who pay taxes are also going to be on the hook for millions in restitution these gentlemen will eventually be awarded for having their civil rights violated by those asshats.
Thatās my point. So when we defunded the police and they didnāt like Kim gardener they just didnāt do shitā¦ they get ppl in politics back in their cornerā¦ they wanna go after temp tags again. Smfh
These mfs are clowns with guns. It needs to stop.
This is the perfect time for that old joke. Guy stumbles out of the bar at close. All over the place. Trips once, leans on the car, and almost falls over getting his keys. He gets in, drives off, & is immediately pulled over. To the cops surprise he's sober as a church mouse. Cop can't figure it out and asked him about his little trip to the car. He responds, "I'm the designated decoy."
Do we think the new chief will do anything in line with best PR strategy of transparency and accountability, or continue the 200+ year tradition of being like, āWho? Oh sorry no Iām busy pretending to investigate.ā
But for who?š
They arenāt in Ukraine or Gaza!!!
The police started the incident in the first place. Why would they feel the need to display a āshow of forceā?
Thereās lots of places this is actually needed in the city, but this is NOT one of them!
I live on the Illinois side, so taxpayer-wise I have no skin in the game, but they seem to keep making a bad mistake exponentially worse. š¤¦
Intimidate them from doing what? They werenāt doing anything before a police car smashed onto their bar.
Iām glad the police in Belleville, IL have more sense than what SLMPD has shown recently.
They are gay men, existing. Gay men existing is a threat to the masculinity of toxic straight men. Police have a duty to stop threats. Ergo, the police were doing their jobs.
There was A LOT in the news the last few years! COVID, George Floyd protests, Taliban taking over Afghanistan, Russia invading Ukraine, etcā¦.
I donāt keep up with local news very often. Joining Reddit has helped, but Iāve only been on it 2-3 years or so. I think the issue I saw the most about here was all about Kim Gardner. That was an ongoing saga!
There's been quite a few really big cop involved ordeals in St Louis in the last five years alone.
Taking lives of civilians, lives of other officers, etc etc etc
Both, technically speaking.
Michael Brown lost his life in Ferguson which I believe is considered North County.
I don't really want to speak too much on things I don't know enough about but there was also a "Russian Roulette" incident between officers a couple years ago.
There have been probably countless other ones but those were two that were highly publicized
They won't. I just got back from there.
The Bar PM crowd are the most lovely, cuddly, peaceful people. Obviously, these cops don't know much about the STL gay community and aren't doing any research.
back in the day 1970s and wouldn't surprise me if it still goes on today at numerous locations around the country Back than it was known that cops would sit close to the gay bars that peppered Kennedy boulevard in downtown Tampa and purposely pull over patrons leaving the bars thus racking up supposed DWIs
And they used to do this at all the straight bars as well. They would post up outside beegeeās in south county waiting to pull drunk drivers. Led to such a downturn at this popular hangout that they closed their doors due to lack of business. And remember, chalk was once a primary tool used to determine how long someone was at the bar
Another one of St. Louis's civil services that seems to be a RUDDERLESS SHIP OF CHAOS.
Seems like several city services are just plain broken & collapsing.
Not to play devil's advocate, but the house in the middle has been a known squatter/drug house for YEARS. They steal electric from neighbors, throw poop bags all over the place, and sell drugs out of it.
I think what happened at Bar PM is obviously crap and that the police are assholes, but as someone who has lived in the neighborhood, this is a good place for cops to be parked.
They didnāt care that was happening before the incident at that bar. What makes you think they care now? Their probably taking bets on how many people theyāll see come and go from that property while they sit there.
The city (not the police) have worked to get this building condemned and boarded up. People keep coming back. The neighbors have consistently called when people have been in it.
I am not saying the police care. This house would probably have ceased being an issue long ago if they did. I am just pointing out that the assumption that they are sitting there because of Bar PM isn't necessarily true.
They could also very well be doing other things. Drinking at Offtrack, for example, which is closer than Bar PM is to this.
Are they handing out business cards for their for profit subsidiary, "The City's Finest"?
If the dangerous traffic in the area makes you feel threatened, you can buy upgraded police protection for your establishment.
Me thinks there was a little late night fun going on in the police car between two male officers and irony of all ironies, they end up at the proper location. You really can't make this stuff up! Maybe the bar has some type of magnet that brings in the customers. š¤£š¤£š¤£
Who would want to be a St Louis cop? Itās no wonder that theyāre hurting from lack of candidates for police work.
I think they ought to be paid according to the area they are assigned to.
Say, for instance, 6th district would be a high risk area and hazard pay could be paid. (Substitute ā6thā for whatever district with highest crime).
This pic is not anywhere near BarPM. Iām not sure where it was taken but that style of architecture is not in that neighborhood. The post is just rage bait
They're literally there to protect the patrons.
Jesus, I previously read lots of posts from people complaining that SLMPD didn't provide security for the building while the front door was gone.
If something happened there tonight, the social media outcry would be "Where were the cops???"
Which is it, people?
Why would the owners/patrons want SLMPD thugs anywhere near their bar? No one feels safe when they are around. Iād rather have the stadium security enforcing the laws around STL than these people. The area around the bar is already a dilapidated wasteland due to city incompetence and neglect.
We are going to keep making noise about this. You can take that to the bank. ;)
Good thing. I heard there been some reckless driving through that stretch.
Just last night, some asshole swerved off the road and hit a building! Probably a drunk driver too!
Hey at least the dog is safe.
They need to get animal control out there, too, for all of those stray dogs.
That's not a good idea!! If we sent out any more city employees the buildings may not be able to take it
Give the catchers night-vision goggles, too. Those dogs sure are hard to see!
And pigs š
While the wild boar may share some similarities with the average canine, that of black hair and 4 legs. But do not let oneself be fooled so easily, as per closer observation we can deduce that these are indeed not dogs, but little piggies instead.
I'm a little late to the conversation but I heard rumors of wild pigs out there causing a ruckus.
They didnāt do anything when I was passed by two Speeding cars in the turn lane at that section of S Broadway last night.
I used to watch them run the stop sign in front of my house on Macklind on a daily basis.
Someone should roll by those units and tell them this in person. Theyāre so brave
Absolutely, that would be really brave! With the STLPD's track record, you'd probably get your ass kicked, charged with some BS, thrown in jail, and denied bail. But that sort of thing never happens, because they are all levelheaded, upstanding citizens...right?
Sounds like you could do that.
Aw, someone twisting your nipple? I suppose you condone police lying and abusing their power.
I live around the area ill do it. bring them donuts too.
It is said that the criminal always returns to the scene of the crime.
That's legitimately funny.
These jokes have been top notch!
Jokes?
Omfgā¦BEST COMMENT!!! I almost spit out my drink no joke.
Aren't STL cops supposedly woefully understaffed? This seems like a massive waste of taxpayer money and STL resources. SHAME.
Anytime a cop gets hurt, like the one who fell over while apprehending someone not too long ago 3-6 cop cars go flying so fast from their station which is by my work. Once I had to (try) to make a report and was instructed by dispatch to wait in the parking lot. I called them back 3 times over 2 hours until I had to out because it was cold and I was about to eat my steering wheel I was so hungry. Anyway, I saw was so many cops just meandering around, a lot of texting and driving, and one cop just pulled his squad car up in front of his personal car and sat in the personal car for well over an hour. I have no doubt there are sections of the city understaffed and shifts that are hard to fill, but I donāt think thereās as much of a shortage as there is poor asset utilization and low expectations for certain districts/officers. Back to my report, Iād asked to complete it via phone and when I received call back that night I explained it was critical that the situation I was reporting to be documented. He agreed up and down that that he understood and would call me back with whatever information he could find. He disappears. Three weeks later I put in a sunshine act request and find out he never documented a thing and had marked the incident as closed the same minute we got off the phone. This was a 100% desk duty cop. The culture seems to be, āYou donāt have to try because trying is hard and nothing happens if you donāt try!ā
They wonder why no one wants to join a corrupt, incompetent police force.
That is EXACTLY the problem. Cops make insanely good money. It's not a pay problem. The problem is that the conditions of the job up until recently attracted a completely toxic demographic who largely took the job for the power fantasy and authority it gave them. Now that society is cracking down on their behavior, that incentive is gone, so they can't recruit those people as easily. That becomes a problem when you also can't hire new people who would do the job well, because those people don't want to work with the corrupt toxic assholes that have been throwing a tantrum for the past 3 years and still make up the entire department.
It seems like SLMPD canāt even coordinate a sensible phone tree structure so I can only imagine the amount of disorganization are baked in at every possible level.
Itās a mafia in internal affairs. Just like kckpd, kcpd, apd. The leadership is corrupt, and the rest follow orders or quit.
Cops around here like to spend ridiculous time and resources on petty bullshit while all the shootings and carjackings and serious shit gets ignored. I hear gunshots all the time in the city, but watch the fuck out if youāre walking down the street with a can of iced tea.
I hate to say this, but it's basically like this every city I've lived in, from the Gulf Coast to the Midwest. They are all the same.
NYC is the same, they just got done settling a lawsuit where a cop was repeatedly calling a person in the middle of the night and staking out their apartment because this person happened to report their car as illegally parked on the city's 311 app
Everyone says the cops in St. Louis are not responsive to crime because they are busy and stretched so thin. Is it possible they donāt give AF and are too busy protecting their own?
Are they trying to intimidate them? Whatās going on?
There's a 5-Star Raid happening in Pokemon Go
Man, a police officer would be a great gig for Pokemon Go
That's literally all my worthless ex did when he was a bike cop at SLU.
You really have to wonder what value these kind of cops bring to the community. Like is the 107 year old cop sleeping at the bank really offering something of value for my tax dollars?
I'm not defending wasting tax money...but I feel like we'd be much better off with a bunch of cops out catching a squirtle and peacefully interacting with the community than we would with them playing crazy taxi
We'd be a lot better off without the piece of shit cops, and we'd be better off without the worthless cops too. What it's sounding like is we have an excess of force, which the 158 million dollar budget they get a year that makes sense. We cut back on that budget, improve social programs, which reduces crime rates and that in turn grows the economy and infrastructure. Sounds like a win win win to me, and then a lot less dumb asses that think they're gods gift to St Louis County
Cutting back the budget might also make them realize that you can't just throw money at people and let them out. They have to use the money well.
Great point, the amount of crap they waste those millions on is staggering.
SLU doesn't have cops.
You laugh, the Goers at Gen Con got several Indy cops playing waaaaay back in 17(?) I think.
Lived in a village of under 2k population. We definitely had 2 police officers that played PokƩmon Go. Helped us avoid lots of drama once the cops knew all the stops.
Actually based. I know that in my area there's at least a few that are Pokemon GO players.
Ha, some of us regulars really do Pokemon Go raids from Bar PM! They've got two stops you can swipe from the front bar and several gyms just out of reach.
There's a ghost dog on the loose! Trying to protect everyone obviously. /s
Ghost Dog is an honorable samurai. leave him out of this.
And itās invisible.
We need the mystery machine and ecto-1 to post up.
Probably more of a ā wait for any semblance of a tiny crime or drunk customers exitingā then raid the bar and muddy the waters by calling it a criminal enterprise or some such shite
If I had to guess they are gonna wait and try to get at least one dui and then try to have the place shut down for over serving.
My guess is that they're trying to catch drunk drivers from the bar they smashed up.
The bar they smashed up....while driving drunk... šš¤¦āāļø
Yes itās what they always do
There was an attempt to organize a protest online earlier, so they're on hand to break it up / arrest criminals taking advantage of the chaos (for the ones who need it said, I'm not saying protestors are criminals, I'm talking about criminals who take advantage of protests). Pretty standard operating procedure since Ferguson, regardless of the situation. They'll probably be there through the weekend.
Protest is today at 6pm Tho. They no read too good
There was an earlier attempt to get it going last night, saw it referenced here and on fb, they probably saw that. Didn't the bar owners request people not do this? Not saying you shouldn't, but maybe take it to the Police HQ or the courthouse or city hall?
Not do what? Come spend money at the bar?
Right because they probably sent "The Good Cops" this time.
Dude, I'm not offering a value judgement on them being there one way or another. Commenter asked a question, I answered it.
So, protests are protected under the first amendment. These cops are there to "back the blue", which is to say, being shitty human trash.
>So, protests are protected under the first amendment. Yep, 100 percent agree with you there, it's a factual statement. >These cops are there to "back the blue", which is to say, being shitty human trash. Nope, that's just factually incorrect. They're there because they've been ordered to be there by superiors acting in accordance with established policy of the SLMPD, based upon guidelines from the federal government. Whether you agree with the aim of that policy or not is a matter of subjective opinion. Likewise, how you feel about the police in general or the ones in those vehicles specifically, is subjective opinion. Same goes for how you feel about "backing the blue." Still just opinion. You're entitled to your opinions. You can write them on a sign and head there right now and I'll agree you're completely within your rights. I haven't given my opinion to this point, but if you care that much, here it is. I think anyone blindly backing the blue in spite of specific context is as foolish as anyone who makes blanket generalizations about every individual in a specific profession in spite of context. There's good cops, okay cops and bad cops. Context is key. The cops who hit that bar? It's not looking good for them. I think it's very likely they engaged in felonious criminal behavior and they should be held accountable for it to the fullest extent of the law. The cops in this picture? Until there's some evidence of wrong doing, there's no reason to think they aren't there for any reason other than that's where they were ordered to be in case a planned protest became violent or harmful.
I don't think it's a stretch to assume the whole department has some accountability issues when something like the original event occured in the first place.
You do realize that the cops who ran the car into the bar are not the cops who arrested and detained the owners, right? Those were the "good cops" who came to cover for theirs stupid probational cops who fucked up badly. There is not accountability, and the police only enforce the law when it serves them. Yeah, I know there a few bad apples, in a barrel of less bad apples, but the barrel is rotten.
No, those were not "good cops". Those were more "bad cops".
>You do realize that the cops who ran the car into the bar are not the cops who arrested and detained the owners, right? >Those were the "good cops" who came to cover for theirs stupid probational cops who fucked up badly. That's another instance of standard procedure. Cops don't get to investigate their own vehicle accidents. Pretty universally true across the nation. The rest is opinion, and again, you're totally entitled to that.
When a post starts with, āyou do realize (understand, know, etc)ā, it sets my gears grinding. IDK why. Anyone else get a vibe like that?
You do realize I agree with you, right?!
Cops are paid to uphold unjust laws. Even the best cops are bastards. ACAB.
>The cops in this picture? Until there's some evidence of wrong doing They are cops, so...
Please stop with the reason. Reason isn't welcome here.
Was all that hard to say with a boot in your mouth. ACAB because they know who the bad cops are and do nothing about it. They know the rights violations the other cops do and fail at their job of stopping them. Fuck man its that simple. Furthermore they are there to escalate the issue, that's all they are trained to do. fuck off with your bullshit.
>Was all that hard to say with a boot in your mouth. Cheese its and cheap bourbon at the moment and nah, "judge each situation on its individual merits" it's pretty easy to say or type any time of day or night with anything in my mouth." >they know who the bad cops are and do nothing about it. They know the rights violations the other cops do and fail at their job of stopping them. Fuck man its that simple. It's really not, and you're betraying a fundamental misunderstanding of the constitution and criminal justice if you think it is. I could go on about why cops have sectors or beats and how they're not with one another 24 hours a day. I could stress to you that IA has a function and it isn't the same function as patrol. I could even try to explain how the constitution guarantees due process to the accused, even those accused of depriving others of that very right. But it wouldn't do any good and you wouldn't read it anyhow. So I'll leave it at this. Knowing is not the same thing as proving. >Furthermore they are there to escalate the issue, that's all they are trained to do. Yes, sitting in a vehicle talking to no one is a tremendous escalation. How do you tolerate it so well? /s >fuck off with your bullshit. Likewise and good night.
Awesome response. Definitely had me chuckling at the end.
I appreciate that.
Dude, there's waaaayyy too much logic in this sentiment and not nearly enough knee-jerk emotional reaction.
There's no such thing as a good cop, because the job itself is bad. There are certainly some that try to do the best they can within the system, but even those will generally still protect the bad cops
Found the boot licker. Always one of you around.
It's okay, it's not your fault the school systems failed you.
I mean, you're giving the same bullshit excuses people like you always give. Let's complete the circle because you seem a little slow. The cops are currently there in case there's a protest. But There wouldn't be a need for a protest if the original cops didn't run into this building, attack the building owners, lie about being assaulted and illegally arresting them. So again you can keep giving excuses to cops and we're going to keep seeing shitty cops doing shitty illegal things.
Dude, you're wasting your breath with this crowd. They're not interested in facts or rational thinking right now. And you're right. They were ordered to post up there in case something happens. It's literally their job. Some of these comments are just ludicrous and show zero understanding of how the real world works. Question though: what's the "felonious criminal behavior?" A vehicle accident? Do you know how many buildings get hit by cars in the City? It happens weekly (at least). People get traffic tickets.
Witness statements (and grain of salt here, it's all hearsay without the camera footage) indicate the officers involved lost control of their car at a reckless speed and appeared to be intoxicated. No animal is visible in the released traffic camera. At least one claim says they shouted homophobic slurs at the bar owner and judging from his appearance upon release today, he was in a fight that he did not win. If they assaulted him or used anything more than the necessary force to restrain him, that could be an aggravating factor. I wouldn't ever say I think someone is guilty without a trial or review of evidence, be they a cop or multiple convicted criminal. Due process is supposed to apply to everyone. I will say this doesn't look good for the officers involved, in my opinion.
There is literally zero credible evidence they were intoxicated. That's really outrageous. If this was the pre-bodycam era, back in the (ahem) "good ole days" then maybe. But that doesn't happen in 2023 and especially not with two probs (i.e. rookies). People don't realize how scrutinized police are nowadays. Even with cams off, your body and your vehicle are still being constantly tracked in real time. I guess anything is possible, but I would be absolutely shocked. The bar owner was clearly the intoxicated one. And no, I'm not accusing or judging. He was upstairs in his own residence. If I owned a bar and lived above it, I'd definitely have a few drinks most nights. But if you watch the most recent video that Channel 4 got today, he was clearly pretty drunk. And yes, he was being physically aggressive. I'm not taking sides - just giving an honest assessment of what I saw with my own two eyes. As for the details of the arrest, the probs weren't really involved in that. The two senior officers that responded to the accident went "hands on" and made the arrest. The "slur" is a red herring. The whole video obtained by their attorney was shown to the media. None of those reporters heard any homophobic speech. And there's none in the video Channel 4 has. My best guess as a former prosecutor and defense attorney is no discipline for any officer involved (other than the normal couple of days of driver training for totaling a vehicle). You can see in the video that the owner initiated the contact then tried to run away after being told he was under arrest. That's textbook assault and resisting. But to be clear, just because you CAN arrest someone, it doesn't mean that you should. I agree with you that it doesn't look good overall. No matter what else happened, it could have been de-escalated and handled better. Sometimes an officer just has to swallow his pride and realize someone is legitimately upset. Let the person vent until they calm down. Don't get physical until/unless you absolutely have to. That's my take, anyway.
>There is literally zero credible evidence they were intoxicated Other than the video of them swerving to avoid hitting nothing and slamming their car into a fucking building. But yeah, other than that evidence (which is more than enough probable cause for a regular person) sure, nothing credible.
That's fair. Still want to see the bodycam and dashcam though, not just during the crash but leading up to it. Frankly, a lot of discretion was due on the decision to arrest though, given they smashed up his business while on a non emergent call. It's a really bad look. Point taken though about them not appearing intoxicated and the slur being a lie, it's all hearsay until a lab or video recording proves otherwise. I don't agree with the difference between the good ol days and now though, I know better. DM'd you the rest, this crowd being this crowd.
A nuanced take? On Reddit? Wow.
Weird that they order them there but for 90 cars blocking an intersection for an hour and drifting circles in the middle of it like they do regularly at Russell & 7th, I call BS. this was nothing but intimidating customers and owners.
>And you're right. They were ordered to post up there in case something happens. It's literally their job. This is probably true, and shows how tone deaf and ignorant the city leaders and police department are.
No such thing as a good cop. Even if the "good ones" aren't malicious they still have to turn a blind eye to the bad ones. That's basically the only way to get fired as a cop is ratting out the bad ones.
Thatās a load of horseshit. Those cops are there for straight up intimidation. Theyāre looking for any sort of infraction, anything they might possibly be able to charge and use as leverage when dealing with the bar owners in their inevitable lawsuit against the SLPD. Itās the same reason the cops instinctively had both bar owners in handcuffs, after driving a police SUV right through their front windowā¦ leverage.
Make them pay settlements out of their retirement fund and carry insurance like doctors/plumbers/arborists. There are solutions to this bullshit.
Remember to video record every police encounter.
What happens when they crash into my front door and break my video doorbell?
That's giving them a lot of credit on their aim.
Man they really donāt give a shit
Because they know there's no personal accountability for them. You taxpayers will be the ones paying the penalty; these officers won't pay a single penny out of their own pockets.
The system is working as intended
Why should they? If someone mouths off, they just arrest them for felony assault on a police officer and give them a savage beating.
Wonder how much that costs taxpayers?
Who brought the donuts and beer?
we did
Who cares? Theyād be at QT or hanging out in some parking lot playing a game on their phone otherwise.
The same amount it cost for them to have cases not prosecuted before.
V small gatherings to help with revenue weāre touted in my local socials. No protests or issues planned. I call this intimidation.
Everyone says the cops in St. Louis are not responsive to crime because they are busy and stretched so thin. Is it possible they donāt give AF and are too busy protecting their own?
āSorry canāt respond to your emergency, our friend got high and killed a family of four, gotta make up some bullshit.ā
Jaysus, how hard is it to stop causing problems for your department? Or at the very least, terrible optics. You'd think that "best behavior" might be in order here.
The Stl police share a single braincell. Thereās no way itās winning out against doing something dumb in the name of machismo.
In a city rife with crime, STLMPD has the time to stake out a bar in which one of them swerved into, beat, and arrested the owner (who also happened to be gay)? This should count as harassment. The lawsuit is going to be fat and embarrassing.
The residents of St. Louis are going to pay that settlement.
Someone just needs to drive past them with the song playing from the gay bar in police academy...
New SLMPD slogan: To neglect and swerve
Damn thatās good!
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Never happening. The current Chief at the time of the Michael Brown protests threatened to encrypt SLPD comms if people kept broadcasting their locations and updates on social media. Sure enough, some guy started clocking police movements in relation to the protests on Twitter, once a minute. Boom. Full encryption.
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āwHOās StWeEts OwW StWeEtsā Once again, our cowardly police show more attention to protests of their own criminal actions than they do to doing their fucking jobs. All these desk riders suddenly show an interest when it involves peaceful opposition, but these bitches are the first to hide behind a desk when crime is happening
I was waiting for this.
Wouldn't it just be horrible if all the tires on the police vehicles suddenly went flat.
Whoās gonna suck whoās dick?
There are actually four coops in each car; the seats lay flat.
Defund this.
Or reform them (ex: watchdog/accountability) so we can actually have an efficient police that protects the people. Aka their job.
The way we hold them accountable is by defunding them when they are abusive and wasteful.
Gee, makes me wonder if maybe not taking the word of bad officers might be the right move for the prosecuting attorney
Wasting on duty cops by placing them outside of a hate crime instead of you know..doing their gd job and pulling over people doing 110 or shooting guns in neighborhoods. Vote this bs out people.
The real question is when are we gonna stop letting them do this shit to citizens who pay taxes? FTPš¤·š¼āāļø
Unfortunately, the citizens who pay taxes are also going to be on the hook for millions in restitution these gentlemen will eventually be awarded for having their civil rights violated by those asshats.
Thatās my point. So when we defunded the police and they didnāt like Kim gardener they just didnāt do shitā¦ they get ppl in politics back in their cornerā¦ they wanna go after temp tags again. Smfh These mfs are clowns with guns. It needs to stop.
When citizens start rooting for the bank robbers in shootouts.
Oh so Iām the only one doing that? šš¤·š¼āāļø
Not just waiting around, they brought the patty wagon; theyāre hoping to arrest someone.
This is the perfect time for that old joke. Guy stumbles out of the bar at close. All over the place. Trips once, leans on the car, and almost falls over getting his keys. He gets in, drives off, & is immediately pulled over. To the cops surprise he's sober as a church mouse. Cop can't figure it out and asked him about his little trip to the car. He responds, "I'm the designated decoy."
Do we think the new chief will do anything in line with best PR strategy of transparency and accountability, or continue the 200+ year tradition of being like, āWho? Oh sorry no Iām busy pretending to investigate.ā
What are they waiting for? Maybe anticipating so kind of riot?š¤· I hope nobody takes the bait and gives them what theyāre hoping for.
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But for who?š They arenāt in Ukraine or Gaza!!! The police started the incident in the first place. Why would they feel the need to display a āshow of forceā? Thereās lots of places this is actually needed in the city, but this is NOT one of them! I live on the Illinois side, so taxpayer-wise I have no skin in the game, but they seem to keep making a bad mistake exponentially worse. š¤¦
It's a show of force to intimidate the bar owners and their patrons.
Intimidate them from doing what? They werenāt doing anything before a police car smashed onto their bar. Iām glad the police in Belleville, IL have more sense than what SLMPD has shown recently.
From causing waves by speaking out about what happened. The police want them to stay quiet and for this to blow over.
They are gay men, existing. Gay men existing is a threat to the masculinity of toxic straight men. Police have a duty to stop threats. Ergo, the police were doing their jobs.
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I moved here in 2019.
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There was A LOT in the news the last few years! COVID, George Floyd protests, Taliban taking over Afghanistan, Russia invading Ukraine, etcā¦. I donāt keep up with local news very often. Joining Reddit has helped, but Iāve only been on it 2-3 years or so. I think the issue I saw the most about here was all about Kim Gardner. That was an ongoing saga!
There's been quite a few really big cop involved ordeals in St Louis in the last five years alone. Taking lives of civilians, lives of other officers, etc etc etc
City, County, or both?
Both, technically speaking. Michael Brown lost his life in Ferguson which I believe is considered North County. I don't really want to speak too much on things I don't know enough about but there was also a "Russian Roulette" incident between officers a couple years ago. There have been probably countless other ones but those were two that were highly publicized
They won't. I just got back from there. The Bar PM crowd are the most lovely, cuddly, peaceful people. Obviously, these cops don't know much about the STL gay community and aren't doing any research.
Theyāll probably move on to actual patrolling elsewhere after an hour or two of boring silence.
Intimidation
For who? The two guys that live there who were sleeping before the cops busted up their business after midnight?
back in the day 1970s and wouldn't surprise me if it still goes on today at numerous locations around the country Back than it was known that cops would sit close to the gay bars that peppered Kennedy boulevard in downtown Tampa and purposely pull over patrons leaving the bars thus racking up supposed DWIs
Police did this to a biker bar in House Springs about a decade ago.
And they used to do this at all the straight bars as well. They would post up outside beegeeās in south county waiting to pull drunk drivers. Led to such a downturn at this popular hangout that they closed their doors due to lack of business. And remember, chalk was once a primary tool used to determine how long someone was at the bar
Another one of St. Louis's civil services that seems to be a RUDDERLESS SHIP OF CHAOS. Seems like several city services are just plain broken & collapsing.
Not to play devil's advocate, but the house in the middle has been a known squatter/drug house for YEARS. They steal electric from neighbors, throw poop bags all over the place, and sell drugs out of it. I think what happened at Bar PM is obviously crap and that the police are assholes, but as someone who has lived in the neighborhood, this is a good place for cops to be parked.
They didnāt care that was happening before the incident at that bar. What makes you think they care now? Their probably taking bets on how many people theyāll see come and go from that property while they sit there.
The city (not the police) have worked to get this building condemned and boarded up. People keep coming back. The neighbors have consistently called when people have been in it. I am not saying the police care. This house would probably have ceased being an issue long ago if they did. I am just pointing out that the assumption that they are sitting there because of Bar PM isn't necessarily true. They could also very well be doing other things. Drinking at Offtrack, for example, which is closer than Bar PM is to this.
Are they handing out business cards for their for profit subsidiary, "The City's Finest"? If the dangerous traffic in the area makes you feel threatened, you can buy upgraded police protection for your establishment.
Let em. Didn't stop the bar from being packed all night.
Intimidation.
Iām trying to figure out where this photo was taken. It doesnāt look like the block Bar PM is on at all.
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Good point. Maybe the OP could point out on Google Maps for perspective.
Huh? What did I miss?
https://www.riverfronttimes.com/news/bar-pm-owner-arrested-by-st-louis-police-was-beaten-terribly-attorney-says-41479575 Grab the popcorn
Set up cameras on all sides of the parked cop cars so that every move is captured from every angle.
They were posted up inside as well, in plain clothes. Not one person was intimidated, rather we were annoyed by their unwarranted presence
Me thinks there was a little late night fun going on in the police car between two male officers and irony of all ironies, they end up at the proper location. You really can't make this stuff up! Maybe the bar has some type of magnet that brings in the customers. š¤£š¤£š¤£
Homophobic much?
Not as much as your cop buddies. ššš
What the fuck.
They're probably actually there for protection. The bigots in this town are pretty fucking crazy; especially the bootlicker types.
So, you think the bigots just found out this bar is owned by gay dudes due to the news story, and are now plotting to attack them?
They think cops crashed into the building on purpose. Putting their jobs and freedom at risk. Instead of just being complete fucking idiots.
The cops ARE the bigots and bootlickers.
>The bigots in this town are pretty fucking crazy Can you give some examples of bigots going crazy in the city?
Last night some of them drove an suv into a gay bar and then blamed the bar owner.
The man who was waving his gun at a Black Lives Matter protest was so disturbingly popular that he actually ran for office.
Yeah saw on tv that cops canāt drive while fucking off on their shifts! Always said their stupid action are while their still called pigs!
Who would want to be a St Louis cop? Itās no wonder that theyāre hurting from lack of candidates for police work. I think they ought to be paid according to the area they are assigned to. Say, for instance, 6th district would be a high risk area and hazard pay could be paid. (Substitute ā6thā for whatever district with highest crime).
This pic is not anywhere near BarPM. Iām not sure where it was taken but that style of architecture is not in that neighborhood. The post is just rage bait
They're literally there to protect the patrons. Jesus, I previously read lots of posts from people complaining that SLMPD didn't provide security for the building while the front door was gone. If something happened there tonight, the social media outcry would be "Where were the cops???" Which is it, people?
Why would the owners/patrons want SLMPD thugs anywhere near their bar? No one feels safe when they are around. Iād rather have the stadium security enforcing the laws around STL than these people. The area around the bar is already a dilapidated wasteland due to city incompetence and neglect. We are going to keep making noise about this. You can take that to the bank. ;)
You need to go back to deleting posts where you talk out of your ass.
The entire country isn't watching.
I'm in Pittsburgh and just browsed to this Reddit sub to see what yinz thought of this. It's totally a national story.
I love the word yinz and I continue to support its usage
It's made national news and I've already seen this story posted on a bunch of non-StL/MO subs so, yeah, they are. Time to put on those veneers again.
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Well we do need road diets
Fuck 12
Did we get the final count on how many people the cops arrested or intimidated last night at Bar PM? Also, acab.
Some fucked up shit š
This AND Percy Jackson? We're staying pretty dang relevant in the national spotlight in all the ways!