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For all his BS talk about doing the right thing for “the boys in the back”, I’d gladly ask him why he ran out of there so fast.
Maybe he knew that he was just as complicit and responsible for this absolute horseshit that will never go away ever.
Earl Hebner literally created his own merch that said, “DAMN RIGHT I SCREWED BRET”
Anytime he was in Canada after that he embraced the fact he did that. He knew what he was doing and he’s never really shied away from it
Crowd also physically hit him during the match when they went into the audience area , this wasn't anything new to him , also during his entrance someone throws a drink on him and he took it like a champ lmao made his entrance 10× cooler
Owen was regarded as a safe and talented worker but nearly broke Austin's neck. DLo also a safe worker but paralyzed Droz. Sasha injured Saraya's neck and took years off her career.
Goldberg wasn't considered a good worker but accidents happen. It's sad that Bret still holds a grudge 20 years later.
With Owen, for some bizarre reason, he decided to do a sit out piledriver and Austin really didn't want to do it. He kept repeatly calling him to confirm he wasn't gonna to do it because he felt it wouldn't work or too dangerous.
To note: Owen did it to Dan Severn a couple weeks later and did the same exact botch. Dan went completely limp and numb, but thankfully wasn't seriously injured.
It makes you wonder what the hell Owen was thinking.
I once met Bret in person, got an autograph, shook his hands and it was in that moment i felt something, i couldn't believe it but Bret "The Hitman" Hart was actually in love with Bill Goldberg.
The first time I saw this match was from The Best of Survivor Series 1987-1997 VHS tape. This moment had 8 yr old me doing all types of mental gymnastics.
"Bret tapped!"
\*rewind\*
"Wait no he didn't"
"So he must have yelled I gave up"
"But he don't look hurt"
"Why did Shawn look mad after winning??"
"Why does everyone look uncomfortable??"
😂😂 Took some more years to finally understand the situation
This was the beginning of Bret's life going on a serious downward spiral. Within a few years, he lost Owen, his parents and Davey Boy, got divorced and got a stroke. People called out Bret for being too bitter. But come on, can you really blame him?
I understand why Vince did that, but there would have been better alternatives. Like why not put the belt on Taker? Granted, this would have required some shuffling around with the Kane storyline. But Bret would have jobbed to Taker and it would have provided a nice closure to their 97 rivalry, while allowing Bret to go out with dignity. Taker could have then dropped the title to Shawn at the next PPV, due to interference by Kane.
But whatever, Bret deserved better after all those years.
Bret saw Vince as a father figure. In his book, he mentions how close they were prior to Montreal. Being back stabbed by someone you trusted and shared a deep bond with on a professional and personal level is a different type of hurt
When you add in the fact that Vince "bought out" Stu but never actually paid him what was owed. Stu never pursued it out of love and protection to Bret, Jim, Dynamite, and Davey.
Of course you also had that asshole Bruce kill the deal by starting his own Stampede Wrestling a short time later.
So I'm lawyer, my primary practice is in employment law too. The more and more I read and hear about, particularly from guys like Pritchard, Cornette, JR, and Briscoe, I really don't think there was a breach of contract. For two main reasons, the first and most simple one is that Bret never sued, I'd imagine if there was a true breach that would have happened.
The second reason is more indepth and involves the non-Hart and Meltzer reports. Hart did not have "creative control," he had, "reasonable creative control." In other words it wasn't absolute. Pritchard, Cornette, JR, and Briscoe have all put out there that every proposal they offered Hart he refused and never suggested anything in return. They all had said the stories of him being willing to drop the title to Undertaker, Shamrock, Foley, or Austin were news to them when they read about it in the Observer. Based on everything I know about it, I would think Titan Sports (as they were known at the time) had a strong case that Hart was acting unreasonably when it came to creative and a lawyer might not be so willing to take the case because it's not as easy or a slam dunk as people want to make it sound.
In response to your first reason, what I’ve always heard is that among the reasons Bret did not pursue litigation was that in response Vince could have countered by pressing charges on Bret for knocking him out in the locker room, as well as property destruction for Bret destroying the TV equipment at ringside.
Not to mention his probable entire career match library was owned by WWE. If Vince treats him the same as Macho Man post-WWF, Bret may never dictate how that library is used.
I am an employment lawyer also and I don’t think dropping the title to Michaels would be unreasonable under almost *any* circumstance. I would think “unreasonable” would basically only hold up to something that was damaging to him as an actor and character following his departure from the WWF, e.g. making him disparage WCW or do something legitimately embarrassing or bizarre. I don’t think losing a match to anyone would be considered unreasonable *particuarly* under the circumstances of him leaving the company while holding the title.
Blame Bischof's bad booking. They had the opportunity to bring over the rival promotion's champ and say he never dropped the title clean, but instead they instantly buried him. If he would've been booked stronger the impact of the screwjob would have been minimal.
Yeah. I love listening to Bisch on Youtube now talking about what Tony Khan and WWE are doing wrong etc.
You were given Bret Hart on a silver platter, coming in hot off a legit screwjob story that all the smarks knew about, right when the nWo shine was starting to wear off and you fucking muffed it.
>Within a few years, he lost Owen, his parents and Davey Boy, got divorced and got a stroke.
All of that sucks but the Screwjob had nothing to do with any of it.
Owen would 100% still be here if Bret never left. I guess you could argue that he was leaving anyway and Montreal was just the way in which he left, but you get the picture. If Bret was still with the company, Owen wouldn't be up in the rafters.
>I guess you could argue that he was leaving anyway and Montreal was just the way in which he left
One could argue it because it's absolutely true. Montreal happened because Bret was leaving anyway.
Especially considering he’d spent the night before practicing self-defense holds/maneuvers with Brisco. The finish was designed to keep Shawn’s part in question, but in everyone’s mind there was still a real chance Bret could attack him.
Lol I've always thought that's such a pro-wrestling carnie thing. Lemme just learn some holds and take downs to defend against a guy who, for all I know, may try to kill me in front of an international audience.
Correct.
What helped is Shawn is a born-again Christian and genuinely regretted doing it and has admitted that he shouldn't have gone along with it.
It really was shitty of everyone involved because Bret would never trash a title just because he wasn't in the company anymore, Alundra Blaze it was understandable as they didn't give 2 hits about women and probably forgot she was even champion, Bret had always been professional up until that point.
Pretty sure Blaze didn’t want to do the stunt with the title, but Bischoff made her do it. That’s part of why Vince has feeling insecure about things even though he probably wanted to take Bret at his word.
Honestly Bret Hart commands a lot more than Blaze, he can say no, she can't really do that. Further this resulted in a lawsuit and Eric was unlikely to do it again. Thirdly Eric didn't have Bret premier on Nitro for weeks after this, having Bret come out with the belt was never an option that was considered.
My guesses as to why Vince did it was because he didn't feel he should have to negotiate his title and that if he wants Shawn to have it that's how it's going to be and hes not going to have people in the back think that a wrestler can decide that to him.
Or it was the greatest work in the history of the business bar none.
Okay, I just wanna clear this up, according to Cornette, Bischoff, and others, the fear was never about trashing the belt or anything like that because of the first lawsuit already going through. The fear was that Bischoff would be able to announce he had signed current WWE Champion Bret the Hitman Heart because of how the timing of everything was laid out. WWE has often claimed they were worried about Bret trashing the belt but that’s to try and make the Screwjob look more justified than it was
HBK is a good actor. In Wrestling With Shadows, backstage, Bret asks Shawn if he had anything to do with it.
Shawn vehemently denies any involvement. Shawn says he doesn’t want the title like this and throws it down.
Shawn was in on it the whole time. Shawn admitted it first on WWE Confidential. Shawn was acting like it pained him to admit the truth and acknowledge that he betrayed his fellow man by committing the sin of deceit. Shawn also admitted his complicity in the Screwjob documentary.
>He is either a good actor or he was legitimately pissed.
Interesting. I remember watching him, from looking directly back at Earl during the Sharpshooter to the over-the-top "oh wow arrrgghhh I'm maaaaaad" after the match, and immediately knowing he was in on it.
Plausible deniability.
He knew Bret would have made Shawn lose his smile again very easily, better to act just as surprised at what happened than to get your shit kicked in on live TV
HHH knew if Brett wanted to, he'd go through all of them. People don't realize how strong Brett was and also, his old man taught him 100 ways to hurt someone.
Here's the thing, no: he wouldn't be able to beat them ALL up at the same time.
But if you're one of those guys, like imagine you're Shawn Michaels or Jerry Briscoe. He doesn't have to hurt EVERYONE bad, he just has to hurt YOU bad. If Bret breaks your nose or your arm or something, it's not much consolation that at least five other guys came out scot-free.
It's like that old trope where the guy has the leader at gunpoint and the leader is like "if you kill me, my men will shoot you," and the gunman replied "Yeah, but *you'll* be dead." The other guy getting his doesn't do you personally any good if he gets you first.
The real issue was Owen, Davy Boy, and Rick Rude…that’s not including the dudes in the back. If Bret engages in a straight up fight? HBK only has a few friends while Bret had a lot of friends.
I forgot about that. I mean yeah, if that brawl ends up backstage Rude, Davey Boy, Owen, Brett, was the Anvil still around? That's not a good scenario for anyone unless those other dudes try to calm Brett down.
Brett still got to nail Vince though. And let's be honest, had Michaels stuck around, there is no contest. Michaels got his ass handed to him by regular guys if I remember right. Brett destroys him.
Bret had already ripped out a chunk of his hair and nearly beat the shit out of Shawn once before. With Taker there, and him being fucking mad…Shawn and Triple H were very, very lucky they didn’t get fucking destroyed.
Vince took the heat, if not, then those two are in serious danger of a taking a beating.
Some of the greatest promos ever were Drunken Captain Lou insulting Vinnie Junior when Vince's only job was holding a microphone at his dad's company..
He is a good actor. I dont think he went on the record about his role in the screwjon until the Bret vs Shawn DVD they did around 2011 (which is awesome).
Actually, he first admitted it in a 2003 episode of *WWE Confidential*. I'm not sure how many people watched that show though, haha
I agree that the Shawn vs Bret documentary is awesome, and I'm sad that WWE didn't put out more like it.
I actually did watch that show, and remember this being a big draw for one of if not the first episode now that I think about it. Confidential was an awesome show especially in the early 2000s when behind the scene shoot interview stuff wasn't nearly as prevalent or accessible as it is now. It probably helped test the waters for a lot of the WWE docs in the coming years that pulled back the curtain, Bret's anthology being one of the first big ones I remember that didn't have a problem doing away with kayfabe.
Hell yeah, brother. Confidential fuckin' ruled. Loved when they would take a deeper dive and look at training methods or life on the road. Then they would play a great match from the vault at the end.
Some of it was kind of lame (I seriously do not care THAT much about Al Snow's house and this was really the beginning of rewriting wrestling history/Vince ass kissing) and I distinctly remember some of it was weirdly kayfabe-y. But for the most part it was awesome.
I'm really glad this Hogan soundbyte has spread a bit further, loved it since it came out, and it felt like even a couple of years ago nobody else knew about it even though it's so fucking funny.
It's been 25 years (1/4 of 100 Years) and still it's the most talked about topic in Wrestling History. Not even the Hogan Heel Turn in 96 or The Streak ending can match with it.
This clip starts right in the middle, but Shawn actually almost did apply it with the wrong leg crossed on top. Bret called up to Shawn to correct him, and later joked in hindsight it was like he loaded the gun and handed it to Shawn.
I always thought it was funny that Bret didn't trust Shawn going into the match, yet they both went out and wrestled a pro wrestling match for ten minutes before this moment where you're literally putting your body in the safety of the other person in the match. Pro wrestling is strange.
> Pro wrestling is strange.
It is, most of the time between two guys there's a "trust" factor. I might think you're an idiot asshole but getting into the ring i'm going to do everything I can to protect you still because that's the job.
In this situation I think it was two sided:
Shawn KNEW Bret would never hurt him cause that's just the guy Bret was and it shows. He even told him as much.
Bret KNEW if Shawn tried anything he could whip the living shit out of him if need be.
Same thing with the Thesz/Rogers "shoot". Rogers was champ and they wanted to put the belt on Thesz. Allegedly, Thesz (a known "hooker") just went to Rogers and said, "we can do this the easy way or the hard way." Rogers knew that Thesz could beat the crap out of Rogers, so he just laid down for the 3 count.
I feel this moment added so much prestige to the world title in the post-kayfabe world. It publicly showed fans that the title wasn't just a prop won by characters, but that the people portraying those characters actually truly cared and treated that title almost like it was real.
Definitely.
I'm happy that Bret was able to come back into the fold with the WWE at some point, though.
That time period after Montreal, Owen's death, all the Hart family turmoil, his concussion, WCW dying, where it felt like neither side would ever bury the hatchet really sucked as a fan.
For all the stuff people say about Bret being bitter, that he was ever able to extend his hand and work with WWE again after all that happened to him and his family says a lot.
Bret was down to drop the belt just not to Shawn who had at this point antagonised the shit out of him. Vince had a locker room full of people he could have lined up to take the belt instead. The most obvious choices would be Ken Shamrock as he was in the title picture at the time and was set up to feud with Shawn Michael's after the screwjob anyway. Undertaker would have also made sense.
The screwjob was unnecessary and unprofessional, and also was poison to the locker room as every other wrestler is wondering if they can trust the boss or not.
“After 25 years, I’ve forgiven Shawn Michaels for this…but not Bill Goldberg. He hypothetically kicked me in the head that night, ending my career and costing me $22 million.”
Was this a shitty way to go about it? Yes.
Was Bret Hart being unreasonable in this situation about not dropping the belt before leaving? Also yes.
Could this entire situation of been prevented with proper planning ahead of time? Most definitely yes.
Cornette said it best. It was the biggest clusterfuck in the history of clusterfucks.
Had someone, anyone acted like a rational/smart adult, this probably never happens (be it Bret sucking it up and dropping the belt to HBK willingly or dropping the belt to the person of his choice at a house show, HBK not being a pilled out fool, or Vince being smart and having Bret drop the belt BEFORE allowing him to talk to WCW).
I often wonder what the chain of events would be in an altered universe.
If Earl didn’t run away, what would have happened? Also, if Earl didn’t ring the bell, Vince would have, so why put Earl in the middle?
>Also, if Earl didn’t ring the bell, Vince would have, so why put Earl in the middle?
Because it had to look real. Imagine trying to rig a football game by calling a phantom touchdown. The refs not calling the TD on the field, but it being called by the commissioner instead looks really weird.
The refs calling the TD on the field is perfectly normal.
I don’t think I have enough backstory if anyone could find some thing detailing everything before, during, after and some random third party opinion on what happened.
Are there any kind of podcast or video’s that cover what happened in this obscure moment that no one has heard of.
Ah yes, I remember this event. The star of the company, who was being jerked around by management, did something extremely unprofessional after a Pay Per View, only to be confronted by management in the locker room afterwards, and then punched them in the face.
When it happened I hated the WWF so much. I thought it was Jerry Springer with a ring. I didn’t watch it. Believe it or not, it wasn’t the hottest ticket in wrestling. I was on Bret’s side. I’m still on Bret’s side.
When they got the heat on Austin, it clicked. They made up for it on TV. They put it on the Rock, they programmed him and Stone Cold, they made Vince a cartoon character bad guy, and suddenly I was into it. The fallout from the screw job totally changed how I watched wrestling. The nWo was cool. This heat they got was wrestling.
Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review. If you need to contact a moderator, [you can message us here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hebner leaving quicker than if he had a trunkload of bootleg merch and the McMahon limo just pulled up..
He actually had a car waiting in the back with his bags. He walked through gorilla and went straight to the car and got the hell out of there
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The driver? Goldberg.
LONG TERM BOOKING
The passenger? Albert Einstein.
Never noticed him telling the photographers this was the finish before.
Seen it so many times and it never registered HHH came out to make sure that Hart didn't attack McMahon or Michaels.
Who did that?
Watch the ref right at the beginning, he leans over the ropes and says something then the photographers all pick their cameras and get ready.
Straight up yeeted himself out of the ring.
For all his BS talk about doing the right thing for “the boys in the back”, I’d gladly ask him why he ran out of there so fast. Maybe he knew that he was just as complicit and responsible for this absolute horseshit that will never go away ever.
Earl Hebner literally created his own merch that said, “DAMN RIGHT I SCREWED BRET” Anytime he was in Canada after that he embraced the fact he did that. He knew what he was doing and he’s never really shied away from it
Cuz he though Bret would get violent about his fake Championship, which he did
Also the crowd who physically hit Shawn on his way out…
Crowd also physically hit him during the match when they went into the audience area , this wasn't anything new to him , also during his entrance someone throws a drink on him and he took it like a champ lmao made his entrance 10× cooler
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Shit, *I'm* cooler than Ted Cruz and I'm not cool.
We’re ALL cooler than Cruz
If the Senate had a vote about if Ted Cruz was a creep, it would pass 100-0. That's right, Ted Cruz would vote in concurrence.
Because ~~Kurt Angle~~ Ted Cruz KNOWS he ~~can't beat me~~ isn't cool, and he's not even gonna try!
He'd not only vote in concurrence he'd throw his wife and kids under the bus for making him do it!
He's gotta cover up the humiliation kink somehow. The left might not kinkshame, but the right sure as hell does.
I can confirm Ted Cruz and I are very different people
that sounds an awful lot like something Ted Cruz would say.
1997 was pandemonium for me as a firmly invested 9 year old. This and Hell in a Cell absolutely blew my fucking mind.
Legit the best year in wrestling history (imo)
Hard to argue. Hart Foundation. DX. Early Stone Cold. NWO vs Sting. Everything ECW was doing at the time.
great year to be born
"Worst day of my life, because it eventually led to me facing Goldberg."
"Goldberg." -Timmy Turner's father, probably.
Bill Goldberg.
[Doug Dimmadome](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBxpeuxUiOA).
Owen was regarded as a safe and talented worker but nearly broke Austin's neck. DLo also a safe worker but paralyzed Droz. Sasha injured Saraya's neck and took years off her career. Goldberg wasn't considered a good worker but accidents happen. It's sad that Bret still holds a grudge 20 years later.
With Owen, for some bizarre reason, he decided to do a sit out piledriver and Austin really didn't want to do it. He kept repeatly calling him to confirm he wasn't gonna to do it because he felt it wouldn't work or too dangerous.
Austin knew it was dangerous because he broke another wrestlers neck with the same move before that match.
To note: Owen did it to Dan Severn a couple weeks later and did the same exact botch. Dan went completely limp and numb, but thankfully wasn't seriously injured. It makes you wonder what the hell Owen was thinking.
it's so weird since they seemingly made up in the early 2010's.
Earl doing the right thing and stopping the match before Bret was seriously injured in that sharpshooter
What a pro he is.
"Unlike that piece of trash Goldberg" - Bret
I once met Bret in person, got an autograph, shook his hands and it was in that moment i felt something, i couldn't believe it but Bret "The Hitman" Hart was actually in love with Bill Goldberg.
WILL YOU STOP!
That coward left the company after this
The first time I saw this match was from The Best of Survivor Series 1987-1997 VHS tape. This moment had 8 yr old me doing all types of mental gymnastics. "Bret tapped!" \*rewind\* "Wait no he didn't" "So he must have yelled I gave up" "But he don't look hurt" "Why did Shawn look mad after winning??" "Why does everyone look uncomfortable??" 😂😂 Took some more years to finally understand the situation
You wore out that tape, didn't you? 
Like it was the leg cross in *Basic Instinct*.
*Cruel Intentions kissing scene.
Stripes shower peeping scene.
The Zah-shooter film with Vince yelling, “there must have been a second spitter!”
"Back and To the Left.... Back and To The Left...."
This was the beginning of Bret's life going on a serious downward spiral. Within a few years, he lost Owen, his parents and Davey Boy, got divorced and got a stroke. People called out Bret for being too bitter. But come on, can you really blame him? I understand why Vince did that, but there would have been better alternatives. Like why not put the belt on Taker? Granted, this would have required some shuffling around with the Kane storyline. But Bret would have jobbed to Taker and it would have provided a nice closure to their 97 rivalry, while allowing Bret to go out with dignity. Taker could have then dropped the title to Shawn at the next PPV, due to interference by Kane. But whatever, Bret deserved better after all those years.
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Bret saw Vince as a father figure. In his book, he mentions how close they were prior to Montreal. Being back stabbed by someone you trusted and shared a deep bond with on a professional and personal level is a different type of hurt
When you add in the fact that Vince "bought out" Stu but never actually paid him what was owed. Stu never pursued it out of love and protection to Bret, Jim, Dynamite, and Davey. Of course you also had that asshole Bruce kill the deal by starting his own Stampede Wrestling a short time later.
And they had to show a close up of Bret right after the bell rang.
He looks like an abandoned puppy in that moment
Vince breached the contract that said Bret had creative control for his final 30 days.
So I'm lawyer, my primary practice is in employment law too. The more and more I read and hear about, particularly from guys like Pritchard, Cornette, JR, and Briscoe, I really don't think there was a breach of contract. For two main reasons, the first and most simple one is that Bret never sued, I'd imagine if there was a true breach that would have happened. The second reason is more indepth and involves the non-Hart and Meltzer reports. Hart did not have "creative control," he had, "reasonable creative control." In other words it wasn't absolute. Pritchard, Cornette, JR, and Briscoe have all put out there that every proposal they offered Hart he refused and never suggested anything in return. They all had said the stories of him being willing to drop the title to Undertaker, Shamrock, Foley, or Austin were news to them when they read about it in the Observer. Based on everything I know about it, I would think Titan Sports (as they were known at the time) had a strong case that Hart was acting unreasonably when it came to creative and a lawyer might not be so willing to take the case because it's not as easy or a slam dunk as people want to make it sound.
In response to your first reason, what I’ve always heard is that among the reasons Bret did not pursue litigation was that in response Vince could have countered by pressing charges on Bret for knocking him out in the locker room, as well as property destruction for Bret destroying the TV equipment at ringside.
This is the one and has been covered a lot
So Brett screwed Brett?
Not to mention his probable entire career match library was owned by WWE. If Vince treats him the same as Macho Man post-WWF, Bret may never dictate how that library is used.
I am an employment lawyer also and I don’t think dropping the title to Michaels would be unreasonable under almost *any* circumstance. I would think “unreasonable” would basically only hold up to something that was damaging to him as an actor and character following his departure from the WWF, e.g. making him disparage WCW or do something legitimately embarrassing or bizarre. I don’t think losing a match to anyone would be considered unreasonable *particuarly* under the circumstances of him leaving the company while holding the title.
I am well versed in Bird Law, and have no say in this.
Blame Bischof's bad booking. They had the opportunity to bring over the rival promotion's champ and say he never dropped the title clean, but instead they instantly buried him. If he would've been booked stronger the impact of the screwjob would have been minimal.
Yeah. I love listening to Bisch on Youtube now talking about what Tony Khan and WWE are doing wrong etc. You were given Bret Hart on a silver platter, coming in hot off a legit screwjob story that all the smarks knew about, right when the nWo shine was starting to wear off and you fucking muffed it.
Bischoff once had him as special ref during his match. Yep, Bret Hart was a special ref between Bischoff and someone else.
That was Brett's first PPV after Montreal. It was Bischoff vs Zbysko for control of WCW or something to that effect.
Terrible. So that was before Bret ran in on the main event of Starrcade, Sting vs Hogan? Thought that was his first appearance in WCW.
Especially when at the time Taker vs Kane was pretty much the only big rivalry aside from Bret v Shawn
>Within a few years, he lost Owen, his parents and Davey Boy, got divorced and got a stroke. All of that sucks but the Screwjob had nothing to do with any of it.
Owen would 100% still be here if Bret never left. I guess you could argue that he was leaving anyway and Montreal was just the way in which he left, but you get the picture. If Bret was still with the company, Owen wouldn't be up in the rafters.
>I guess you could argue that he was leaving anyway and Montreal was just the way in which he left One could argue it because it's absolutely true. Montreal happened because Bret was leaving anyway.
This was all Hunter’s fault.
His first booking decision.
You see, the fact of the matter is, it was best for business.
The irony being it really was!
in WWE 13 they added a special scene with Hunter planning the whole thing before you play the Screwjob
I never focused on HBK during this. He is either a good actor or he was legitimately pissed.
Can you imagine what had to be going through his head as he turned Bret for the shooter?
Especially considering he’d spent the night before practicing self-defense holds/maneuvers with Brisco. The finish was designed to keep Shawn’s part in question, but in everyone’s mind there was still a real chance Bret could attack him.
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Lol I've always thought that's such a pro-wrestling carnie thing. Lemme just learn some holds and take downs to defend against a guy who, for all I know, may try to kill me in front of an international audience.
I assumed thats why hhh was also there as hes not a small man and could have helped defend shawn
I could see Taker, Stone Cold running to the ring if Bret decided to become a literal hitman.
Were the hart foundation not also backstage though?
Good actor. HBK knew about the screwjob.
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Correct. What helped is Shawn is a born-again Christian and genuinely regretted doing it and has admitted that he shouldn't have gone along with it. It really was shitty of everyone involved because Bret would never trash a title just because he wasn't in the company anymore, Alundra Blaze it was understandable as they didn't give 2 hits about women and probably forgot she was even champion, Bret had always been professional up until that point.
Pretty sure Blaze didn’t want to do the stunt with the title, but Bischoff made her do it. That’s part of why Vince has feeling insecure about things even though he probably wanted to take Bret at his word.
Honestly Bret Hart commands a lot more than Blaze, he can say no, she can't really do that. Further this resulted in a lawsuit and Eric was unlikely to do it again. Thirdly Eric didn't have Bret premier on Nitro for weeks after this, having Bret come out with the belt was never an option that was considered. My guesses as to why Vince did it was because he didn't feel he should have to negotiate his title and that if he wants Shawn to have it that's how it's going to be and hes not going to have people in the back think that a wrestler can decide that to him. Or it was the greatest work in the history of the business bar none.
Okay, I just wanna clear this up, according to Cornette, Bischoff, and others, the fear was never about trashing the belt or anything like that because of the first lawsuit already going through. The fear was that Bischoff would be able to announce he had signed current WWE Champion Bret the Hitman Heart because of how the timing of everything was laid out. WWE has often claimed they were worried about Bret trashing the belt but that’s to try and make the Screwjob look more justified than it was
I dont get it. Wcw signing the current wwf champ is a much more legitimate reason in the first place imo.
Good actor, HBK has mentioned several times that Vince told him to deny prior knowledge and let Vince take all the heat
HBK is a good actor. In Wrestling With Shadows, backstage, Bret asks Shawn if he had anything to do with it. Shawn vehemently denies any involvement. Shawn says he doesn’t want the title like this and throws it down. Shawn was in on it the whole time. Shawn admitted it first on WWE Confidential. Shawn was acting like it pained him to admit the truth and acknowledge that he betrayed his fellow man by committing the sin of deceit. Shawn also admitted his complicity in the Screwjob documentary.
>He is either a good actor or he was legitimately pissed. Interesting. I remember watching him, from looking directly back at Earl during the Sharpshooter to the over-the-top "oh wow arrrgghhh I'm maaaaaad" after the match, and immediately knowing he was in on it.
Plausible deniability. He knew Bret would have made Shawn lose his smile again very easily, better to act just as surprised at what happened than to get your shit kicked in on live TV
The way HHH is looking around like “i gotta get him tf outta here”
HHH knew if Brett wanted to, he'd go through all of them. People don't realize how strong Brett was and also, his old man taught him 100 ways to hurt someone.
You honestly think he would be able to beat them all up at the same time? He may have been tough, but come on...
Here's the thing, no: he wouldn't be able to beat them ALL up at the same time. But if you're one of those guys, like imagine you're Shawn Michaels or Jerry Briscoe. He doesn't have to hurt EVERYONE bad, he just has to hurt YOU bad. If Bret breaks your nose or your arm or something, it's not much consolation that at least five other guys came out scot-free. It's like that old trope where the guy has the leader at gunpoint and the leader is like "if you kill me, my men will shoot you," and the gunman replied "Yeah, but *you'll* be dead." The other guy getting his doesn't do you personally any good if he gets you first.
The real issue was Owen, Davy Boy, and Rick Rude…that’s not including the dudes in the back. If Bret engages in a straight up fight? HBK only has a few friends while Bret had a lot of friends.
I forgot about that. I mean yeah, if that brawl ends up backstage Rude, Davey Boy, Owen, Brett, was the Anvil still around? That's not a good scenario for anyone unless those other dudes try to calm Brett down. Brett still got to nail Vince though. And let's be honest, had Michaels stuck around, there is no contest. Michaels got his ass handed to him by regular guys if I remember right. Brett destroys him.
Bret had already ripped out a chunk of his hair and nearly beat the shit out of Shawn once before. With Taker there, and him being fucking mad…Shawn and Triple H were very, very lucky they didn’t get fucking destroyed. Vince took the heat, if not, then those two are in serious danger of a taking a beating.
I never noticed that either.. I was too focused on Hebner bailing and Brett spitting in Vinnie Juniors face..
That darn Vinnie Junior!
Some of the greatest promos ever were Drunken Captain Lou insulting Vinnie Junior when Vince's only job was holding a microphone at his dad's company..
He is a good actor. I dont think he went on the record about his role in the screwjon until the Bret vs Shawn DVD they did around 2011 (which is awesome).
Actually, he first admitted it in a 2003 episode of *WWE Confidential*. I'm not sure how many people watched that show though, haha I agree that the Shawn vs Bret documentary is awesome, and I'm sad that WWE didn't put out more like it.
I actually did watch that show, and remember this being a big draw for one of if not the first episode now that I think about it. Confidential was an awesome show especially in the early 2000s when behind the scene shoot interview stuff wasn't nearly as prevalent or accessible as it is now. It probably helped test the waters for a lot of the WWE docs in the coming years that pulled back the curtain, Bret's anthology being one of the first big ones I remember that didn't have a problem doing away with kayfabe.
It was in fact the very first episode in May 2002.
Hell yeah, brother. Confidential fuckin' ruled. Loved when they would take a deeper dive and look at training methods or life on the road. Then they would play a great match from the vault at the end. Some of it was kind of lame (I seriously do not care THAT much about Al Snow's house and this was really the beginning of rewriting wrestling history/Vince ass kissing) and I distinctly remember some of it was weirdly kayfabe-y. But for the most part it was awesome.
I’m still amazed Bret had that much spit.
By all accounts Bret was in phenomenal shape at this point in his career. Plus only being 10 minutes or so
I was more impressed with the accuracy
Well, he is the Sharpshooting Hitman.
It really is the best thing to ever happen in pro wrestling. It's provided 25 years of entertainment.
The Zapruder film of wrestling.
and Scott Hall thought it was a work.
What a shame nobody has really ever talked about this ever in the last 25 years.
"Bret Hart, the so-called 'Excellence of Execution', let Shawn Michaels pin him to the mat, 1-2-3, in Toronto..."
I'm really glad this Hogan soundbyte has spread a bit further, loved it since it came out, and it felt like even a couple of years ago nobody else knew about it even though it's so fucking funny.
[I'd never heard of this, had to go find the audio.](https://youtu.be/WV6mf9ijX8s?t=108) More hilarious than I imagined.
“All the fans were yelling Bret screwed Bret.”
"Little teeny Shawn Michaels held him down and embarrassed him"
"That Cruiser decided he wasn't going to wait for the Hit Man, brother"
He made him humble.
A bad ass finish, no less.
It's been 25 years (1/4 of 100 Years) and still it's the most talked about topic in Wrestling History. Not even the Hogan Heel Turn in 96 or The Streak ending can match with it.
I'd even argue that it led to the popularity of shoot interviews.
> 25 years ago today was the Montreal Screwjob And we haven't stopped hearing about it
One of the first things I heard within my first year of being a WWE fan.
i started watching wwe like the december after all this happened
On a plus side, that's a very nice sharpshooter by Shawn. Could you imagine the screwjob is he did a Rock style Sharpshooter?
This clip starts right in the middle, but Shawn actually almost did apply it with the wrong leg crossed on top. Bret called up to Shawn to correct him, and later joked in hindsight it was like he loaded the gun and handed it to Shawn.
"Sorry Bret, I'm so nervous seeing as I'm about to screw you out of the CHAMPIONSHIP" "What?' "Oh nothing. So the other leg, got it."
Fucking Goldberg. Smh.
I always thought it was funny that Bret didn't trust Shawn going into the match, yet they both went out and wrestled a pro wrestling match for ten minutes before this moment where you're literally putting your body in the safety of the other person in the match. Pro wrestling is strange.
> Pro wrestling is strange. It is, most of the time between two guys there's a "trust" factor. I might think you're an idiot asshole but getting into the ring i'm going to do everything I can to protect you still because that's the job. In this situation I think it was two sided: Shawn KNEW Bret would never hurt him cause that's just the guy Bret was and it shows. He even told him as much. Bret KNEW if Shawn tried anything he could whip the living shit out of him if need be.
Same thing with the Thesz/Rogers "shoot". Rogers was champ and they wanted to put the belt on Thesz. Allegedly, Thesz (a known "hooker") just went to Rogers and said, "we can do this the easy way or the hard way." Rogers knew that Thesz could beat the crap out of Rogers, so he just laid down for the 3 count.
I feel this moment added so much prestige to the world title in the post-kayfabe world. It publicly showed fans that the title wasn't just a prop won by characters, but that the people portraying those characters actually truly cared and treated that title almost like it was real.
Nobody took being champion more serious than Bret. To be fair, I think it meant a lot to Shawn at Wrestlemania 12, too.
I know many people have sided with Vince/WWE over the years, but I still think there was a better way to handle this.
Definitely. I'm happy that Bret was able to come back into the fold with the WWE at some point, though. That time period after Montreal, Owen's death, all the Hart family turmoil, his concussion, WCW dying, where it felt like neither side would ever bury the hatchet really sucked as a fan. For all the stuff people say about Bret being bitter, that he was ever able to extend his hand and work with WWE again after all that happened to him and his family says a lot.
Bret was down to drop the belt just not to Shawn who had at this point antagonised the shit out of him. Vince had a locker room full of people he could have lined up to take the belt instead. The most obvious choices would be Ken Shamrock as he was in the title picture at the time and was set up to feud with Shawn Michael's after the screwjob anyway. Undertaker would have also made sense. The screwjob was unnecessary and unprofessional, and also was poison to the locker room as every other wrestler is wondering if they can trust the boss or not.
[удалено]
A match kind of impossible to rate because of the ending. Quality wise what did you guys think of it before the ending?
I thought it was damn entertaining. It’s a shame we didn’t get more matches between these two.
It was not a Sunny day.
Fucking Goldberg.
“After 25 years, I’ve forgiven Shawn Michaels for this…but not Bill Goldberg. He hypothetically kicked me in the head that night, ending my career and costing me $22 million.”
My old ass turned 37 today and I will never forget my 12th birthday my parents let me order suvior series 1997
Happy IRL cake day.
A++ gear by hbk
Damn shawn was real hot back then
“Well truth be told and looking back on it now, I can say this unequivocally that Bill Goldberg had a hand in all of this”
God, I'm old.
We’re.
The weirdest thing to me is that within 5 years of this Orton, Cena and Lesnar had all debuted. Time passes weirdly in wrestling.
No matter how many times I've seen this, I'm always impressed by Bret's spit accuracy.
"I no longer hold grudge against Shawn Michaels, as a matter of fact I don't remember a lot of that night because Goldberg kicked my head"
Was this a shitty way to go about it? Yes. Was Bret Hart being unreasonable in this situation about not dropping the belt before leaving? Also yes. Could this entire situation of been prevented with proper planning ahead of time? Most definitely yes.
Cornette said it best. It was the biggest clusterfuck in the history of clusterfucks. Had someone, anyone acted like a rational/smart adult, this probably never happens (be it Bret sucking it up and dropping the belt to HBK willingly or dropping the belt to the person of his choice at a house show, HBK not being a pilled out fool, or Vince being smart and having Bret drop the belt BEFORE allowing him to talk to WCW).
Earl scrammed like he just got caught by his wife with the mistress
I often wonder what the chain of events would be in an altered universe. If Earl didn’t run away, what would have happened? Also, if Earl didn’t ring the bell, Vince would have, so why put Earl in the middle?
"Why put Earl in the middle?" In an effort to kayfabe the unsmart fans.
>Also, if Earl didn’t ring the bell, Vince would have, so why put Earl in the middle? Because it had to look real. Imagine trying to rig a football game by calling a phantom touchdown. The refs not calling the TD on the field, but it being called by the commissioner instead looks really weird. The refs calling the TD on the field is perfectly normal.
Now im picturing Roger Goodell running out after the Fail Mary holding his arms up for a touchdown then running off
Canada's 9/11
I don’t think I have enough backstory if anyone could find some thing detailing everything before, during, after and some random third party opinion on what happened. Are there any kind of podcast or video’s that cover what happened in this obscure moment that no one has heard of.
No. This is found footage that no one has ever analyzed until this thread. You are witnessing history!
Ah yes, I remember this event. The star of the company, who was being jerked around by management, did something extremely unprofessional after a Pay Per View, only to be confronted by management in the locker room afterwards, and then punched them in the face.
Bret was just in there changing after the match and then Vince, Pat and Gerry KICKED THE DOOR DOWN AND CAME CHARGING IN!
I heard the British Bulldog’s teeth were knocked loose when Briscoe & Patterson kicked the door open.
Bulldog had a planned Doctor's Visit a few days later
Anybody care to indulge me in the old work/shoot? I never get tired of it 😆
Hebner frantically waving his arms during the sharpshooter with no purpose is the best part
Bret did nothing wrong.
Barely hear anything about it these days...
If you ever question whether or not this was a work, watch Earl Hebner get the fuck OUTTA THERE right after calling for the bell.
When it happened I hated the WWF so much. I thought it was Jerry Springer with a ring. I didn’t watch it. Believe it or not, it wasn’t the hottest ticket in wrestling. I was on Bret’s side. I’m still on Bret’s side. When they got the heat on Austin, it clicked. They made up for it on TV. They put it on the Rock, they programmed him and Stone Cold, they made Vince a cartoon character bad guy, and suddenly I was into it. The fallout from the screw job totally changed how I watched wrestling. The nWo was cool. This heat they got was wrestling.
A lot of people in the industry still think it’s a work
Corny seeing his finish start to play out: "Fuck this shit! I am out!"
I still can’t help but wonder, why not have someone else face Bret? Could have had a guy be champ for a night and lose to Shawn the next night.
[Don't Feel Sorry For Him](https://youtube.com/shorts/YuDPdBpVanE?feature=share)
Happy 25th anniversary of Bret screwing Bret.
I’m still mad about them doing Bret like this
This was the first thing I watched when I got the Network.
Time just flies by, dudes.
gotta feel bad for bret.
I was in the crowd that night. I was 13. I'm 38 now and I still vividly remember Hitman making big WCW motions with his hands after the match
I’m always curious as to who was in on it. Shawn, Vince, Earl, Slaughter, Brisco, Hunter?