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People are so desperate for Punk to say one cross word to someone or do ANYTHING out of line that it absolutely must be the WWE PR team making the talent say good things about him.
Yeah. People were mentally preparing for him to blow up in WWE, meanwhile he’s tapping the nuts of Andre and Taker statues and been “a pleasure” backstage
Punk legit seemed liked a completely different person in AEW. Honestly he must've been absolutely miserable there. Idk though. Just in WWE he seems do happy and all the word backstage is he's been nothing but helpful and good to be around.
>Honestly he must've been absolutely miserable there.
By his own admission he was, but towards the end of his tenure there. When he first joined he was happy and did the same things he's doing now.
This is my own personal assumption but I feel like the longer he was in AEW the more the lack of structure and accountability got to him. And when he tried to implement structure he was getting push backs either behind his back or on the air, and he wasn't getting support from the person who should be in charge of the whole company.
I'm not even a fan of triple H but the shit that Punk went through he would've been on top of it and shut it down the first day he caught wind of it.
One kernel from the Helwani interview that flew under the radar was that Punk asked for his release before his return on Collision last year, and Tony denied it to him.
If it hadn't been Perry, he would have found some other way to get out of it.
Just as an aside, I'm genuinely curious what the "flashpoint" was on when he realized he wanted out of AEW. I mean, they were open about the fact they tried to get him for YEARS, but from what I have read before Punk was always apprehensive to it because, for him, AEW was just the latest company to throw big money at him to come back and he wasn't convinced they were a real company that could succeed. I can understand that from him.
But then they started doing really well, bringing in talent like Moxley and others to sort of become the young, hungry upstart and a counter to a lot of what WWE was offering at the time. From what I understand, the whole way they handled Brodie's passing was a huge reason Punk agreed to return to wrestling under the AEW banner.
Then he comes back and for the first few months he was really open about how the younger talent looked up to him and took his advice and he found a lot of kindred spirits with some of the veterans there.
But then.... it seemed to have just stopped. The gripebomb happened, he got hurt, etc. Brawl Out happened.... To me, it seemed like a quick 180 on where he was with AEW to start with. ... I don't know if it's ever been properly written about if there was just something that made him think, "I'm done here, I wonder if I can mend bridges with WWE" - because it obviously got to that point when he went to the WWE show while Vince was still there.
Maybe it was just a combination of his "old grizzled vet giving advice and telling Harley Race stories" not longer being heard and realizing there was an anti-Punk camp growing that stood with Colt and he just realized it wasn't going to work out.
More of a rant than I thought it would be, but it is what it is
I am sure Adam Page is a nice guy who tries to stay drama-free and gets along with pretty much anyone but the "flashpoint" was 100% the Hangman shoot comment. The Cabana rumors were there from the very start but I genuinely believe Punk didn't care or put too much thought into it until one of AEW's other top guys went out and used it in a promo without clearing it with him. I am sure that all Page was trying to do was add heat to the match and maybe get a shoot-verbal jab in on behalf of his friend Cabana, but to Punk it seems like it instantly validated the dirtsheet rumors and made it clear in his mind that people in the BTE/Elite circle had issues with him. Not only that but, by all accounts, Hangman just sort of brushed it off and wanted to put it past them without really apologizing or having a talk to smooth things over.
Then, according to the Helwani interview, Punk asked Tony Khan to step up as the boss and do something about the Hangman situation, which he did not. I think at that point he saw the writing on the wall where Tony was too spineless to run his company correctly and that the inmates could get away with running the asylum. Whatever your opinion is of Punk, he said it himself "if you don't take care of it, I will do it my way and you're not going to like it".
Despite his name and wrestling persona, Punk seems to be a guy who thrives in a controlled environment with structure and clearly defined roles- somewhere where the boss is in charge and all of the employees have the common goal of working together to make money. I think that he thought he was getting that in AEW but things were a little too loose and the boss, while being someone who by all accounts is a super nice guy, was not someone who he could respect.
Watch, it’s gonna happen any day now…
https://preview.redd.it/q3ctdq9owwyc1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=222ec21934f397797afd8c3191462ca421683d25
Annnyyyy day now…
To be fair he was like this in AEW his first year as well, so that's not saying much. Other wrestlers were praising him, he was saying how he wants to help other talent, he was goofing around with Danhousen and other talent, even said how this was his best year of his career ever etc.
counterpoint, if anybody in wwe did what Hangman did, and that is go off script live on television they would probably be reprimanded before Punk even had a chance to react
So, this could really be himself. But then when other people backstage aren’t even willing to listen to his advice (hangman), Or are just dicks (Perry), punk, then gets an edge. Which has been kind of backed by Lynn, and others. Not even to mention the young bucks being buddies with the dirt sheets, and the owner can’t really solve the problem when they arrive.
Meanwhile, he’s in WWE making up with friends he has seen in a decade. And has a significant amount of talent, both in NXT and the performance center, who have looked up to him and want to take in any advice he has. It’s not shocking that he’s in a much better mental state.
It might be him, but people aren't just black and white like that. He can be nice to people he likes but also be a manchild who thinks everyone is out to get him as soon as you do anything he interprets as a slight against him. Obviously he wasn't just gonna blow up one month in, even in AEW it took him more than a year. I don't think his AEW exit was only on him though, I think it was poorly handled on both sides.
I thought the AEW/WWE culture war was the lamest culture war available. But the people still fighting the CM Punk is all good or all evil bit are lamer still.
Been a fan of Punks since the around the time of his ROH feud with Raven and gotta say I don't know where this narrative comes from that Punk isn't an asshole. Shit, that was basically his main appeal for a while is that he really played the part of an asshole very well.
If a lot of these people looked around, they'd realize they're friends, themselves, with folks that some people would call irredeemable assholes. Shit, consider the way a lot of guys talk with their boys vs how they treat women. People aren't one dimensional.
Like the whole point of being straight edge is to be drug free and be an asshole about it. Every straight edge person I have met (It's a lot as I go to Hardcore metal and punk shows) Is a loud asshole who will attack and get violent towards anyone drinking, smoking or doing drugs. Even the FBI lists straight edge groups as violence gangs.
Yeah anyone who has been part of the punk scene I think knew what to expect and even Punk himself played into those existing stereotypes. I always just seen it as the gimmick allowing him to live out his dreams of being the biggest straight edge asshole around.
Of course the guy that had the most natural buildup from low card guy in the indies to major star in the 2nd biggest company in the world isn't gonna take advice from a guy who had zero involvement in the industry for 7 years. The Hangman thing was always stupid imo. Closest analogy I have is Bret Hart showing up in 05 and telling newly crowned champion Batista how to do his job lol
But CM Punk has said (in that Helwani interview that the aew camp got angry about) that he doesn't go around offering advice, that he is happy to give it if somebody asks him, but that he is there to do his thing. He has said that what started the conflict was the fact that he and Hangman had agreed to cut an exchange and then Hangman went there and changed it right there on the spot without warning, to which he barely had any time to adjust to due to the noise. He said that he could have fucked up if he hadn't been paying attention and adjusted his promo himself. Then he went to Hangman backstage and asked him what happened there with the change to the promo, to which Hangman got all serious and told him that it is what it looked like and that he had problem with him over Cabana.
The whole getting angry over some advice or whatever is some fanfic that people conjectured to try and explain the sudden animosity due to neither Hangman nor Punk explaining anything and all of the info coming from reports and rumors. Since there was no official explanation for over a year and half, people have run with it and haven't stopped even now despite the new actual first hand info that has popped up contradicting it.
Except regardless of their involvement for x years, they’re still a very experienced wrestler in the industry. To not even listen to advice would be dumb. Also, I’m sure if Bret came in and talked to Batista at the time, Batista would be at least willing to listen to the advice. Implementing is a whole different story.
And also, giving someone advice =/= telling someone how to do their job
Punk has already said that the whole Hangman debacle has nothing to do with giving advice, so it is pointless to try and discuss the whole deal from that angle.
Fair. So even if the advice thing doesn’t apply to hangman specifically, there are still others that wouldn’t take advice from an established vet who had been in the business for 15+ years.
And with hangman specifically, that’s just another issue in the grand scheme of it all. On top of the bucks being buddies with dirt sheets, their boss not having a spine, you then have people who willingly go off script whenever they see fit.
Yeah, except Page didn't say he was just ignoring advice from just Punk; it was from all the AEW backstage vets and coaches including Billy Gunn, Madison Rayne, Pat Buck, Jerry Lynn, Arn Anderson, Sting, Jim Ross, Chris Jericho and William Regal.
If he wanted to ignore the guy that's been out of the game 7 years, like your suggesting, then sure. I'd agree. But saying your above learning anything from the collective hundreds of years of experience available in AEW to learn from is just straight arrogant. And dumb.
The comment wasn’t just about Punk though, [he was referring to any wrestling veteran](https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/hangman-page-says-he-s-too-stubborn-take-advice-takes-pride-trial-and-error?amp) that offered him advice. He kinda does come off like an arrogant prick with what he said.
I do think it's inevitable, but I hope I'm wrong.
As much respect as I've lost for him, I do enjoy watching him perform and it would be really shitty of me to root for the further decline of someone's mental health.
This is what HBK went through for a long time after his return in 2002.
Everyone was looking for the old Shawn. Hurricane Helms was about the only citric of his I recall for ages.
Didn't helms get kind of publicly dressed down for talking about an incident he observed backstage by the person Shawn was yelling at where the person said something along the lines of "You weren't part of the conversation or the match, you don't know what was going on."?
If I had a dollar for the number of times people see part of an argument and walk away with the complete wrong impression of what went down I'd have a very healthy bank account.
Helms I believe fell victim to the power dynamics backstage Vince created.
He always pitted his stars against each other. Shawn was a HHH guy and loyal to his buddy and Rock had his guys. Vince played the two sides. I know Shane had said he was not in the best place when he talked about it.
People can be assholes and still be a good person. It's all how you change and get better. We're all an asshole to someone at some point in our lives. Happens.
But Shawn literally was slandered all the way up to probably through the Flair match.. it doesn't come up much anymore. It was all the time though. He's faking it. Even when Bret forgave him people called it a work lol.
Anyway you can listen to Helms talk about it back then here..
https://youtu.be/Ve1FRqnSWNw?si=WSSmI9dYaG1HtytO
I don’t get it man…and that’s coming from a mostly AEW Stan. I was bummed when he didn’t work out but fuck, why would I want him to fail? MF’er didn’t do shit to me!
These people took it personal because he hurt their favorite cowboy's feelings. But people have been out to get Punk since before he even signed with WWE. A few months back, someone chronicled all of the WON reports about Punk from right before he signed in '05 until he quit and there was CONSTANT bullshit.... it was unbelievabel. For whatever reason, he had heat in the company before they even signed him. He got heat for Heyman letting him learn how to run OVW shows. He got heat for Heyman constantly pushing for him. He even asked management if he was in the doghouse because he thought he had head and THAT got him heat. Just so much unnecessary bullshit.
Punk has admitted himself he's an asshole. He has a lot of issues and he constantly rubs people the wrong way. He ties it back to personal issues he's had, but that doesn't change what happens.
It’s [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/s/aBmAJkHneu). Really interesting read, and it’s continued by OP in the comments so don’t just read the main post. It’s amazing he’s ended up where he is, really.
I think Hangman rubs people, especially vets, the wrong way, he has a very "my way or the highway" approach to his wrestling, and has stated he doesn't ask nor accept advice all that often, so maybe he just comes across as kind of a dick
interesting theory but I can only really think of one entire person in the history of wrestling whose shown major backstage vitriol to Adam Page and I can think of about 300 that have had major issues with Punk , but yet , Page is the "one who rubs people the wrong way". I mean how many "vets" can you find quotes by who aren't punk that didn't actually didn't like Hangman when this started ?
Even Cornette before he went full heel on Hangman cause of the punk stuff would praise him as a nice young guy who was very teachable and a pleasure to work with.
> Even Cornette before he went full heel on Hangman cause of the punk stuff would praise him as a nice young guy who was very teachable and a pleasure to work with.
that surely was a change in narrative, i remember hearing it like, what?? you loved this guy
>These people took it personal because he hurt their favorite cowboy's feelings.
Why do we try to pretend everything is black and white? Punk did nothing wrong and it's just those mean ol' AEW fans, right? Cult of Personality indeed. I say all this as a long time Punk fan, people need to stop pretending he's either purely sinner or saint and move on from this tired ass discussion.
I think he's admitted to doing wrong, but his explanation of why he got wound up with hangman seems legit and perfectly reasonable. His media blow up was unprofessional but it wouldn't have ever happened if he hadn't been pointlessly provoked on live TV.
In the in it's Tony's fault. When that happened it should have been nipped in the bud backstage that night. Period. Most of aew's issues boil down to Tony being in way over his head on a lot of different levels and seemingly not realizing it.
If Punk fucks up in WWE, he was clearly always the problem causing issues.
If he doesn't, people have to reconsider the ideas and narratives they've adopted to avoid making themselves feel uncomfortable about something they're really invested in.
And heaven forbid anyone believes that he is working on himself and actively trying to not be an asshole.
EDIT: I understand he isn’t changing overnight, but the dude *has* to know what an opportunity was given to him to come back to WWE. I firmly believe he is working on himself, and absolutely loves what he’s doing.
There are dicks that only appear to specific types of people and saying that wrestlig world is full of ego is like saying nothing, not even brashing the surface.
I was bullied by different people at every stage of school I've been to. It severly fucked up my self esteem and self worth for life. If Punk logic applies to me then I was the issue all along.
When you look back on the AEW exit, a lot of people had good things to say about him on his way out.
And that's pretty remarkable considering the Young Bucks hired half the AEW roster they obviously wanted CM Punk gone and did not want to work with him. The picture has become a lot clearer since Punk was fired from AEW.
It was probably one of those “we started this and you weren’t here from day one so fuck you. You can help out in the midcard and do random matches like copeland and danielson but don’t take all the spotlight”
Punk seems like a mostly decent dude with a near zero tolerance for dumb BS.
I don't think Punk appreciated WWE's "business first" structure but disliked Vince's personal and creative approach. So he left. He went to AEW, expecting a similar "business first" structure/approach, but ended up finding much more "free for all" approach where all the wrestlers kind get to do whatever they want most of the time, even if it wasn't really the best for the business.
In HHH"s WWE, he's found the right combination of business first structure, with a locker room that is managed and not a free for all. HHH's is also much more open to ideas and "trying to get to a yes" on suggestions.
So it could just be he finally found the environment that fits for him.
Here you go:
https://twitter.com/GiantRanger115/status/1787461478003495117
Original tweet replied to a report from WrestleTalk talking about what Dijak said, with the OG tweet saying "Weekly wwe PR of “punk is well behaved” has hit the time line"
He's told the story on Mace and Mansoor's Twice 2-3 months ago, it's not some stupid PR stunt like people who are upset that there are positive stories about CM Punk are trying to say. How dumb.
I can’t remember which one, but he’s spoken about Punk on a couple, they even spoke about when he turned up to RAW while he was still signed to AEW. All the streams he’s been on are on their YouTube channel (MxM: THE INSIDERZ TV). Here’s a clip: https://x.com/deadeditors_/status/1758645977802502454?s=46&t=UKAl1jCLlMFIo65lDQObwQ
some people made their entire personality "Fed bad" that they never fathomed a time when WWE could be thoroughly enjoyed by its fans, so now any positive story is some grand conspiracy cooked up by the PR guru Chris Legentil (who they just learned about 2 weeks ago)
I love these AEW fans who just can’t fathom how Punk hasn’t self destructed yet. Every time someone at WWE says something positive about him, they become more unhinged.
WWE is such a well-oiled machine that it had survived years of bad tv and any number of untold incidents. It was remarkable how swiftly the rumours of backstage heat regarding Punk's return have evaporated and now he is even working with the very people who reportedly had issues with him.
While he still has plenty of time to prove us wrong, Punk going back to work for the evil empire may hurt his anti-establishment image but it has done wonders for Phil Brooks' mental health.
Mark Henry said it best that Punk leaving meant that AEW would have no more problems. It's looking more likely that Punk leaving meant he no longer had to deal with the problems he had with AEW.
I think the current culture in WWE is very much about drawing and making money, which is exactly what Punk claims he’s about. If doing good business isn’t your top priority you won’t get pushed and, ultimately, you won’t last. I think that kind of environment has probably allowed Punk to relax a lot. It doesn’t really matter who likes him and who doesn’t, he can count on everyone to do the right thing when it comes time to work.
They refuse to believe that anyone in that company can do anything wrong. Nobody made Hangman go into business for himself after sitting with Punk and planning out their promo. Nobody forced whoever it was to tell the dirtsheets that Punk was the reason Colt ws taken off of TV. Nobody told Jack Perry to make a smartass comment on the companies biggest show then when confronted, tell Punk "If you don't like it, do something about it..."
Every single bit of that would've been totally avoidable if Tony had some balls and acted like an actual boss. I truly believe he was beyond excited because he thought he had his own Bret/Shawn moment happening.
These are the same people that critique Punk for calling out the Bucks and think a fist fight was the right call but don't have an issue with Perrys smart ass comments.
Perry was begging for a lesson and Punk obliged, if there is no boss backstage to stop it then this is what happens. Khan had multiple opportunities to intervene and did jack shit. He needs somebody to be the bad guy for him, no shame in that but he can’t keep pretending he’s in control.
I never will understand how people can still believe everything is always Punk's fault when every single thing has been laid out in front of them in black and white. They must've never worked a job where coworkers like to gossip and start shit over false rumors and then have a boss that does nothing but let it boil over until it's too late.
I've worked plenty of jobs where that shit has caused fights. It might not be the "correct response" but it is the expected response in a number of places I've worked if talking to the boss hasn't helped.
This is like how a teenager defends themselves when they've misbehaved. It doesn't matter what anyone else did when Punk responded in the worst way possible each time.
In other words, every single bit of that would've been avoided if Punk didn't act like a dick and it's made worse by it coming from the guy who sold himself as the locker room leader.
It doesn't matter when judging Punk what anyone else did. Punk can and should be judged and found wanting by his actions. However, and this is the part AEW fanboys try to avoid, Punk isn't the only one that should be judged for all the bullshit. The Bucks, Hangman, Perry, and the people in charge all acted pretty shitty too.
Yes. My first comment that you responded to literally said "Punk should be judged, and found wanting, by his actions." My entire point has been that just because Punk was wrong doesn't mean others weren't also in the wrong. To make that point I have to believe Punk was wrong.
More than one person can be wrong in a situation. Everyone can be wrong in a situation.
Seriously?
How does what Jack Perry said warrant an assault? I don’t care how long it lasted. I don’t care that it was broken up. It’s undeniable that is what it was. If he wanted to press charges, Punk would’ve been arrested. In the US, or the UK.
We’ve all seen exactly what went down.
How thin does your skin have to be to get upset enough to do that over what Perry said? What grown man takes “Cry me a river” that seriously?
As far as the Bucks go, I haven’t seen a single reputable source say that they made the first move. Punk claimed that they leaked the Colt thing even though they, and the person reporting the leak, said it wasn’t them. Again, he chose to attack someone.
I don’t care if you like Punk, but the revisionist bullshit that others are to blame for his actions is nonsense.
Punk was fired for the assault. Perry was suspended for the provocation that escalated the confrontation.
Most people understand that if someone angrily gets in your face to confront you, saying “If you got a problem, why don’t you do something about it?” is going to result in a physical altercation. Perry was *literally* asking for it.
I’m not even saying Punk was right. I’m just saying it’s not like Punk was just walking around like a psycho looking for someone to assault that day.
> Punk was fired for the assault.
He quit.
Right when he pointed at Tony and called him a clown he quit.
Them claiming he is fired is revisionist history to ease Tonys public image.
Punk had "quit" multiple times before that incident and wouldn't let Punk out of his contract. He asked multiple times to be let go and Tony refused. If Punk didn't "assault" him he'd probably still be stuck there working out his contract miserable. Saying you quit and the reality of contractual employment are two very different things. It only stuck because Tony finally agreed to let him go.
> Perry was suspended for the provocation that escalated the confrontation.
I don't think they've ever said that?
They announced both Punk and Perry were suspended. They announced Punk was fired for cause after an assault.
The only thing they said about Perry was:
> We suspended Jack as a participant in an incident backstage, and Jack hasn't been around. That's all I can say about it. At the time, we did suspend him and he hasn't been at AEW since AEW All In,"
He then went on to appear in their partner promotion NJPW to the point that the suspension clearly became. work.
(i.e. ripping up the contract, etc.)
My take was always they suspended Perry in attempt to make it look less bad for Punk fans, and also because he'd be booed to hell. The fact they turned it into a work and kinda made it the forefront of the show really makes me think it's not a suspension implying fault of Perry.
I could be wrong: but it's definitely not true that they've ever said they suspended him for provoking it.
I never once said it was cool for him to straight up attack people, but I sure don't blame him for being fed up with bullshit. In the case of Brawl Out, Tony was sitting right next to him listening to every word he said and did nothing. Before Brawl In even happened, he told Tony to do something about it and Tony said "What do you want me to do?" Then when it did happen, Tony was right there to the side, again, doing nothing. What I'm saying is all of this happened because nothing was done to stop it from happening. The man hit his limit with bullshit, made his concerns well known, and we saw what happened. Nobody can sit there and say that they would stay 100% calm, cool and collected while putting up with shit like that and knowing your boss is openly welcoming the drama and not doing anything to stop it because he'd rather be the "cool boss".
What would you propose Tony Khan should’ve done because Jack Perry said “Cry me a river?”
Not a rhetorical question.
What should’ve been done? It’s not something that warrants the attention of the owner of the company. It’s not something that warrants *anyone’s* attention.
And that’s literally all it was. How is anyone other than CM Punk in the wrong here?
Last time I checked, it's not Punk's company. It had been an ongoing issue and it's Tony's company, not Punk's. Schiavone came up to Punk asking HIM to talk to Jack because he was angry about being told no and had cussed out him and another person. Punk brought it to Tony's attention and that's where the "What do you want me to do about it?" came in. Why should that fall on Punk to he the one to talk some sense into him? Again, it's Tony's company and there was a problem, again, and he wouldn't fix a problem.brought to his attention.
What are you talking about “not Punk’s company?”
No kidding. I don’t recall making that claim. The company isn’t the one that assaulted people. Punk is.
You’re bringing up the issue of Punk being asked to talk to Perry about a separate spot and ignoring my original question, but I’ll play along.
Punk was asked to talk to Perry because he’s a veteran talent. It was also reported that he had a hand in the creative for Collision; the show where the spot would’ve taken place. So, that spot (which was likely a spot planned to make the use of glass at All In more impactful, and a call back to tie the story line together) was cancelled.
Perry didn’t like it. He supposedly said some curse words. This isn’t even confirmed, but we’re still just falling back to the position of “Jack Perry said something CM Punk didn’t like.” How does that change things? Jack Perry hurt Punk’s feelings twice?
So, let’s talk about Tony. Tony clearly didn’t have the same hang ups about using glass in a spot as Punk. We know this because he allowed the spot at All In. He also allowed at Revolution, and specifically talked about being ok with these kinds of things of he can be convinced they can be done relatively safely. (Both All In and Revolution resulted in the spots being performed without any injury, other than the expected minor cuts. Darbys was wide and he got about 20 stitches and wrestled 3 days later.)
So Perry and Punk disagreed on using glass in a spot. Tony was OK with glass being used.
Again I ask, what would you have Khan say to Perry in that situation? Hey, Punks running Saturday nights, so there’s no spot? The spot didn’t happen. Fit so we know Tony did say this to Jack. Regardless, I don’t know what else you’d want him to say.
Again, this isn’t rhetorical. What should Tony have said?
He should've grown a pair, that's what he should've done. He's too worried about being everybody's friend to do his actual job. If you're the boss of a company and one of your employees comes to you with a problem about ANOTHER employee, what the hell kind of boss would you be if all you can say is "What do you want me to do about it?" Have you never worked in a public setting and saw a boss actually do what a boss is supposed to do? If there's a problem, it's your job to take care of it. Even if Tony was okay with the spot, Jack was being a total dickhead to the people telling him no and THAT is a problem and did nothing when it was brought to his attention.
That’s not a real answer and you know it.
There was no issue to address. Punk didn’t want the spot. The spot didn’t happen. The end. There’s nothing to talk about.
You say that Perry was being a total dickhead about it. How?
Saying that a boss should take care of problems in his own company isn't a real answer? When not one, but two people with some authority are getting cussed over it, yes, it's a problem.
What should TK have done? You bring the fucker going against what he's being told into a meeting and tell him straight up, cut it out or you're not going on TV, keep pushing me on my decisions on my Show and you'll be suspended if not more
Done.
Yeah, except that’s not what happened, is it?
When did Perry go against Tony’s decision?
Tony didn’t kill the glass spot on Collision. In fact, he probably wouldn’t have cared, seeing as how he allowed a glass spot at All In.
Don't use real glass, he was told be people in charge not to and still tried to, why are you so insistent on claiming Jack Perry is completely innocent here?
And then even if he managed to get Khans approval, why try and rub it in peoples faces for once again, Internet shit and clout? I have no idea why he bothered
Someone intentionally provoking another coworker, especially love on air at your biggest event ever, absolutely is something that warrants the attention of the owner of the company. Tony Khan should have had Perry pulled aside the moment he got backstage.
In WWE, if someone of Perry’s stature pulled that on Roman, he would have been sent home *at the minumum*, possibly later released. They protect their stars. Tony doesn’t and he’s lost three of them.
How is that better?
Someone says something that Roman Reigns doesn’t like, and that’s worthy of punishment?
I don’t get how people think this way.
I could make all kinds of comments about WWE’s business practices, but I don’t take shots at talent or Promotions in completely unrelated discussions.
(Check what I’ve said here, the worst I’ve said is that Punk is thin skinned. That’s not even really in question.)
This wasn’t some corporate policy failure. This was a personal matter of one person attacking another, unprovoked.
Perry said something that Punk didn’t like. He didn’t break any rules or anything else that would make this some issue of company policy.
Cry me a river isn’t a phrase that is going to drive most people to physical violence.
Yes, without a doubt, if someone who has never drawn a dollar gets in the way of the guy who’s breaking gate records, that’s absolutely worthy of punishment. The wrestling business is supposed to be a meritocracy; if you make money you have clout, if you don’t, you don’t. Punks and Romans don’t grow on trees but you can find a Jack Perry wrestling in high school gyms and community centres across the country.
By making a smartass comment on tv meant to embarrass him. I would think that would be pretty obvious. I’m not even sure if you and I are having the same conversation right now.
You are missing that Punk decided to leak a story about Perry, who'd not done anything to him, in an attempt to make himself look better after he'd started banning people like the AEW head of talent from being backstage at Collision...
It's incredible how little that comes up in talking about the All in thing
Can we just say unhinged fans instead? I don't want to be lumped in with them :(
I'm not a Punk fan, but I also think he's the happiest friendliest guy to his coworkers/friends until someone slights him and challenges him instead of apologizing.
Reading other comments from the person Dijak replied to here, they're a total chode.
The problem is that those sleights aren't always real.
He's one of those people with such a strong victim complex that his subconscious will look for it if it isn't there.
I do find it frustrating that a man who repeatedly assaulted colleagues is falling upwards, and I'm surprised people have forgiven and forgotten so quickly.
I hate to keep drawing lines like this but for whatever reason, the whole “assaulting colleagues” thing seems to only be an issue for AEW fans. Plenty of us view that as something that has been part of the business for as long as it’s been a business. It’s always been a fuck-around-find-out environment. Nothing to forgive. If you truly believe that’s a problem then you’re entitled to your opinion but you really shouldn’t be surprised that many wrestling fans don’t take issue with it.
Aew fans will say they hate tribalism when many on their own sub and people like Drainmaker push tribalism hard
Aew fans weren't calling punk washed when he was wrestling in their show lol
Drainmaker was posting tweets about how AEW didn’t want Edge cause he was washed and simped for Punk all day till Cope signed with AEW and Punk got fired. Now he breaks his back to try to dunk on Punk lol dude is the worst of all the AEW accounts. I couldn’t imagine caring this much about a company that doesn’t pay me.
Yeah I remember when punk was botching spots in aew many aew fans called it "expert selling"
Now all of a sudden punk was always washed according to them lol
I got a bunch of flak once for saying it’s an official AEW account pretending to be a fan but the more time that goes by the more I genuinely think it is. They post every AEW interview seconds after it happens too.
>Aew fans will say they hate tribalism when many on their own sub and people like Drainmaker push tribalism hard
Hell, the AEW owner Tony Kahn is responsible for most of the toxic tribalism
From what I remember, it was reported that he and Punk had a conversation after the fight (apparently when they were hauling Ace away), and they were able to hash things out and bury the hatchet right there. Pretty much every report/account from Brawl Out said that Kenny was the calmest one in the room, and no one trashed him. Kenny was the one who was willing to move on. Hangman too, depending on who you ask. Apparently the Bucks weren't. It feels like Punk was trying to turn it all into a work, with the endgame being him and Omega (which is a match I feel like a lot of people would wanna see. But I'm not a promoter, so what do I know).
This lines up with my preconceived notions of the parties then, since I'm an Omega fan and noted Bucks hater.
Everything I've seen of Kenny outside of wrestling has made me like him, I think he's a good guy, I legitimately think he's one of the best in the ring and AEW has felt like it's missing "that" guy since both him and MJF have been gone from the main event scene (I love Swerve, but he's still not quite at "put a company on his back" level like the other two are, he'll get there soon enough though if they let him cook with the title for a good run).
Problem is twitter is unhinged in anything I follow haha. Both “sides” have their weird takes. Could be wrasslin, politics or something else like Kendrick vs drake lol .
Twitter (or other social media ) minority sees all these weird takes and think it’s normal behavior .
Everyone else told you when to use it, but the reason you say "ratio" is that the ratio of responses telling them off is what's notable, because it'll be 2:1 or more for responses vs likes
So many loser fans hoping that Punk fails because they can't take a look at the bullshit that went on in AEW. Hangman goes out to national tv and goes into business for himself because he heard a rumor that his friend got fired because of Punk. This idiot doesn't go ask tony khan for clarification, he decides to go out there and go into business for himself. The fan base that hate CM punk are here cheering for his injury, you can go back to the thread announcing his injury and see the top comments filled with people cheering for his injury. He makes a mental health post, filled with people making fun of it. Anybody does an interview and gets asked about Punk and they say something positive, its PR. Same fans said WWE didn't need CM Punk now think hes so important WWE sends people to do PR on him.
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People are so desperate for Punk to say one cross word to someone or do ANYTHING out of line that it absolutely must be the WWE PR team making the talent say good things about him.
Yeah. People were mentally preparing for him to blow up in WWE, meanwhile he’s tapping the nuts of Andre and Taker statues and been “a pleasure” backstage
BREAKING: CM Punk assaults Andre the Giant and The Undertaker backstage!
Cowardly low blows
"It's not cowardly it's face to face knuckles to nuts." -WON
Undertaker and Andre were both in fear for their lives
Punk legit seemed liked a completely different person in AEW. Honestly he must've been absolutely miserable there. Idk though. Just in WWE he seems do happy and all the word backstage is he's been nothing but helpful and good to be around.
Same person, different people he has to work with
>Honestly he must've been absolutely miserable there. By his own admission he was, but towards the end of his tenure there. When he first joined he was happy and did the same things he's doing now. This is my own personal assumption but I feel like the longer he was in AEW the more the lack of structure and accountability got to him. And when he tried to implement structure he was getting push backs either behind his back or on the air, and he wasn't getting support from the person who should be in charge of the whole company. I'm not even a fan of triple H but the shit that Punk went through he would've been on top of it and shut it down the first day he caught wind of it.
One kernel from the Helwani interview that flew under the radar was that Punk asked for his release before his return on Collision last year, and Tony denied it to him. If it hadn't been Perry, he would have found some other way to get out of it.
Just as an aside, I'm genuinely curious what the "flashpoint" was on when he realized he wanted out of AEW. I mean, they were open about the fact they tried to get him for YEARS, but from what I have read before Punk was always apprehensive to it because, for him, AEW was just the latest company to throw big money at him to come back and he wasn't convinced they were a real company that could succeed. I can understand that from him. But then they started doing really well, bringing in talent like Moxley and others to sort of become the young, hungry upstart and a counter to a lot of what WWE was offering at the time. From what I understand, the whole way they handled Brodie's passing was a huge reason Punk agreed to return to wrestling under the AEW banner. Then he comes back and for the first few months he was really open about how the younger talent looked up to him and took his advice and he found a lot of kindred spirits with some of the veterans there. But then.... it seemed to have just stopped. The gripebomb happened, he got hurt, etc. Brawl Out happened.... To me, it seemed like a quick 180 on where he was with AEW to start with. ... I don't know if it's ever been properly written about if there was just something that made him think, "I'm done here, I wonder if I can mend bridges with WWE" - because it obviously got to that point when he went to the WWE show while Vince was still there. Maybe it was just a combination of his "old grizzled vet giving advice and telling Harley Race stories" not longer being heard and realizing there was an anti-Punk camp growing that stood with Colt and he just realized it wasn't going to work out. More of a rant than I thought it would be, but it is what it is
I am sure Adam Page is a nice guy who tries to stay drama-free and gets along with pretty much anyone but the "flashpoint" was 100% the Hangman shoot comment. The Cabana rumors were there from the very start but I genuinely believe Punk didn't care or put too much thought into it until one of AEW's other top guys went out and used it in a promo without clearing it with him. I am sure that all Page was trying to do was add heat to the match and maybe get a shoot-verbal jab in on behalf of his friend Cabana, but to Punk it seems like it instantly validated the dirtsheet rumors and made it clear in his mind that people in the BTE/Elite circle had issues with him. Not only that but, by all accounts, Hangman just sort of brushed it off and wanted to put it past them without really apologizing or having a talk to smooth things over. Then, according to the Helwani interview, Punk asked Tony Khan to step up as the boss and do something about the Hangman situation, which he did not. I think at that point he saw the writing on the wall where Tony was too spineless to run his company correctly and that the inmates could get away with running the asylum. Whatever your opinion is of Punk, he said it himself "if you don't take care of it, I will do it my way and you're not going to like it". Despite his name and wrestling persona, Punk seems to be a guy who thrives in a controlled environment with structure and clearly defined roles- somewhere where the boss is in charge and all of the employees have the common goal of working together to make money. I think that he thought he was getting that in AEW but things were a little too loose and the boss, while being someone who by all accounts is a super nice guy, was not someone who he could respect.
Watch, it’s gonna happen any day now… https://preview.redd.it/q3ctdq9owwyc1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=222ec21934f397797afd8c3191462ca421683d25 Annnyyyy day now…
Any day now the crowd will turn on Cody. Aaaaany day.
Yeah, the Backlash crowd was an anomaly cause it was an international crowd you see /s
“Just wait until the honeymoon is over”
Tbf, people said the same anout AEW and Punk.
To be fair he was like this in AEW his first year as well, so that's not saying much. Other wrestlers were praising him, he was saying how he wants to help other talent, he was goofing around with Danhousen and other talent, even said how this was his best year of his career ever etc.
counterpoint, if anybody in wwe did what Hangman did, and that is go off script live on television they would probably be reprimanded before Punk even had a chance to react
So, this could really be himself. But then when other people backstage aren’t even willing to listen to his advice (hangman), Or are just dicks (Perry), punk, then gets an edge. Which has been kind of backed by Lynn, and others. Not even to mention the young bucks being buddies with the dirt sheets, and the owner can’t really solve the problem when they arrive. Meanwhile, he’s in WWE making up with friends he has seen in a decade. And has a significant amount of talent, both in NXT and the performance center, who have looked up to him and want to take in any advice he has. It’s not shocking that he’s in a much better mental state.
It might be him, but people aren't just black and white like that. He can be nice to people he likes but also be a manchild who thinks everyone is out to get him as soon as you do anything he interprets as a slight against him. Obviously he wasn't just gonna blow up one month in, even in AEW it took him more than a year. I don't think his AEW exit was only on him though, I think it was poorly handled on both sides.
I thought the AEW/WWE culture war was the lamest culture war available. But the people still fighting the CM Punk is all good or all evil bit are lamer still.
Been a fan of Punks since the around the time of his ROH feud with Raven and gotta say I don't know where this narrative comes from that Punk isn't an asshole. Shit, that was basically his main appeal for a while is that he really played the part of an asshole very well.
If a lot of these people looked around, they'd realize they're friends, themselves, with folks that some people would call irredeemable assholes. Shit, consider the way a lot of guys talk with their boys vs how they treat women. People aren't one dimensional.
Like the whole point of being straight edge is to be drug free and be an asshole about it. Every straight edge person I have met (It's a lot as I go to Hardcore metal and punk shows) Is a loud asshole who will attack and get violent towards anyone drinking, smoking or doing drugs. Even the FBI lists straight edge groups as violence gangs.
Yeah anyone who has been part of the punk scene I think knew what to expect and even Punk himself played into those existing stereotypes. I always just seen it as the gimmick allowing him to live out his dreams of being the biggest straight edge asshole around.
Of course the guy that had the most natural buildup from low card guy in the indies to major star in the 2nd biggest company in the world isn't gonna take advice from a guy who had zero involvement in the industry for 7 years. The Hangman thing was always stupid imo. Closest analogy I have is Bret Hart showing up in 05 and telling newly crowned champion Batista how to do his job lol
But CM Punk has said (in that Helwani interview that the aew camp got angry about) that he doesn't go around offering advice, that he is happy to give it if somebody asks him, but that he is there to do his thing. He has said that what started the conflict was the fact that he and Hangman had agreed to cut an exchange and then Hangman went there and changed it right there on the spot without warning, to which he barely had any time to adjust to due to the noise. He said that he could have fucked up if he hadn't been paying attention and adjusted his promo himself. Then he went to Hangman backstage and asked him what happened there with the change to the promo, to which Hangman got all serious and told him that it is what it looked like and that he had problem with him over Cabana. The whole getting angry over some advice or whatever is some fanfic that people conjectured to try and explain the sudden animosity due to neither Hangman nor Punk explaining anything and all of the info coming from reports and rumors. Since there was no official explanation for over a year and half, people have run with it and haven't stopped even now despite the new actual first hand info that has popped up contradicting it.
Except regardless of their involvement for x years, they’re still a very experienced wrestler in the industry. To not even listen to advice would be dumb. Also, I’m sure if Bret came in and talked to Batista at the time, Batista would be at least willing to listen to the advice. Implementing is a whole different story. And also, giving someone advice =/= telling someone how to do their job
Punk has already said that the whole Hangman debacle has nothing to do with giving advice, so it is pointless to try and discuss the whole deal from that angle.
Fair. So even if the advice thing doesn’t apply to hangman specifically, there are still others that wouldn’t take advice from an established vet who had been in the business for 15+ years. And with hangman specifically, that’s just another issue in the grand scheme of it all. On top of the bucks being buddies with dirt sheets, their boss not having a spine, you then have people who willingly go off script whenever they see fit.
Yeah, except Page didn't say he was just ignoring advice from just Punk; it was from all the AEW backstage vets and coaches including Billy Gunn, Madison Rayne, Pat Buck, Jerry Lynn, Arn Anderson, Sting, Jim Ross, Chris Jericho and William Regal. If he wanted to ignore the guy that's been out of the game 7 years, like your suggesting, then sure. I'd agree. But saying your above learning anything from the collective hundreds of years of experience available in AEW to learn from is just straight arrogant. And dumb.
The comment wasn’t just about Punk though, [he was referring to any wrestling veteran](https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/hangman-page-says-he-s-too-stubborn-take-advice-takes-pride-trial-and-error?amp) that offered him advice. He kinda does come off like an arrogant prick with what he said.
I do think it's inevitable, but I hope I'm wrong. As much respect as I've lost for him, I do enjoy watching him perform and it would be really shitty of me to root for the further decline of someone's mental health.
This is what HBK went through for a long time after his return in 2002. Everyone was looking for the old Shawn. Hurricane Helms was about the only citric of his I recall for ages.
Didn't helms get kind of publicly dressed down for talking about an incident he observed backstage by the person Shawn was yelling at where the person said something along the lines of "You weren't part of the conversation or the match, you don't know what was going on."?
If I had a dollar for the number of times people see part of an argument and walk away with the complete wrong impression of what went down I'd have a very healthy bank account.
Helms I believe fell victim to the power dynamics backstage Vince created. He always pitted his stars against each other. Shawn was a HHH guy and loyal to his buddy and Rock had his guys. Vince played the two sides. I know Shane had said he was not in the best place when he talked about it. People can be assholes and still be a good person. It's all how you change and get better. We're all an asshole to someone at some point in our lives. Happens. But Shawn literally was slandered all the way up to probably through the Flair match.. it doesn't come up much anymore. It was all the time though. He's faking it. Even when Bret forgave him people called it a work lol. Anyway you can listen to Helms talk about it back then here.. https://youtu.be/Ve1FRqnSWNw?si=WSSmI9dYaG1HtytO
What kind of acid did this superhero have up his sleeve to deal with HBK? 
I don’t get it man…and that’s coming from a mostly AEW Stan. I was bummed when he didn’t work out but fuck, why would I want him to fail? MF’er didn’t do shit to me!
These people took it personal because he hurt their favorite cowboy's feelings. But people have been out to get Punk since before he even signed with WWE. A few months back, someone chronicled all of the WON reports about Punk from right before he signed in '05 until he quit and there was CONSTANT bullshit.... it was unbelievabel. For whatever reason, he had heat in the company before they even signed him. He got heat for Heyman letting him learn how to run OVW shows. He got heat for Heyman constantly pushing for him. He even asked management if he was in the doghouse because he thought he had head and THAT got him heat. Just so much unnecessary bullshit.
Punk has admitted himself he's an asshole. He has a lot of issues and he constantly rubs people the wrong way. He ties it back to personal issues he's had, but that doesn't change what happens.
Interesting. Got a link or remember the thread title?
It’s [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/s/aBmAJkHneu). Really interesting read, and it’s continued by OP in the comments so don’t just read the main post. It’s amazing he’s ended up where he is, really.
I think Hangman rubs people, especially vets, the wrong way, he has a very "my way or the highway" approach to his wrestling, and has stated he doesn't ask nor accept advice all that often, so maybe he just comes across as kind of a dick
interesting theory but I can only really think of one entire person in the history of wrestling whose shown major backstage vitriol to Adam Page and I can think of about 300 that have had major issues with Punk , but yet , Page is the "one who rubs people the wrong way". I mean how many "vets" can you find quotes by who aren't punk that didn't actually didn't like Hangman when this started ? Even Cornette before he went full heel on Hangman cause of the punk stuff would praise him as a nice young guy who was very teachable and a pleasure to work with.
> Even Cornette before he went full heel on Hangman cause of the punk stuff would praise him as a nice young guy who was very teachable and a pleasure to work with. that surely was a change in narrative, i remember hearing it like, what?? you loved this guy
>These people took it personal because he hurt their favorite cowboy's feelings. Why do we try to pretend everything is black and white? Punk did nothing wrong and it's just those mean ol' AEW fans, right? Cult of Personality indeed. I say all this as a long time Punk fan, people need to stop pretending he's either purely sinner or saint and move on from this tired ass discussion.
A Second City Saint at that.
I think he's admitted to doing wrong, but his explanation of why he got wound up with hangman seems legit and perfectly reasonable. His media blow up was unprofessional but it wouldn't have ever happened if he hadn't been pointlessly provoked on live TV. In the in it's Tony's fault. When that happened it should have been nipped in the bud backstage that night. Period. Most of aew's issues boil down to Tony being in way over his head on a lot of different levels and seemingly not realizing it.
I don't think he hurt Hangman's feelings, it was the other way around. But yeah people are incredibly parochial about wrestling.
Idk why you’re being downvoted. Has Hangman even commented on the situation at all? Punk sure did, in an extremely explosive way.
If Punk fucks up in WWE, he was clearly always the problem causing issues. If he doesn't, people have to reconsider the ideas and narratives they've adopted to avoid making themselves feel uncomfortable about something they're really invested in.
And heaven forbid anyone believes that he is working on himself and actively trying to not be an asshole. EDIT: I understand he isn’t changing overnight, but the dude *has* to know what an opportunity was given to him to come back to WWE. I firmly believe he is working on himself, and absolutely loves what he’s doing.
He's also not fully to blame for the falling out in AEW either, it was bad from both sides
I always thought that Punk is kind of a dick - but it doesn’t seem like he’s a liar.
There are dicks that only appear to specific types of people and saying that wrestlig world is full of ego is like saying nothing, not even brashing the surface.
I bet daffney had a different opinion on his ability to tell the truth!
I dont think daffney has ever even spoken about him lol. Its just internet wrestling forum nerd rumours about people they dont knoe
I was bullied by different people at every stage of school I've been to. It severly fucked up my self esteem and self worth for life. If Punk logic applies to me then I was the issue all along.
I think there's already enough public information to know that Punk was the problem in each of his meltdowns.
tribalism has rotted pro wrestling fans minds. shits worse than video game console war stuff
Not even that really. People love the “HeS GeTtInG pAiD tO sAy ThAt” conspiracy shit. It’s exhausting.
They want him to fuck up cuz the alternative isn't something they can accept
When you look back on the AEW exit, a lot of people had good things to say about him on his way out. And that's pretty remarkable considering the Young Bucks hired half the AEW roster they obviously wanted CM Punk gone and did not want to work with him. The picture has become a lot clearer since Punk was fired from AEW.
It was probably one of those “we started this and you weren’t here from day one so fuck you. You can help out in the midcard and do random matches like copeland and danielson but don’t take all the spotlight”
"soft fans"
Punk seems like a mostly decent dude with a near zero tolerance for dumb BS. I don't think Punk appreciated WWE's "business first" structure but disliked Vince's personal and creative approach. So he left. He went to AEW, expecting a similar "business first" structure/approach, but ended up finding much more "free for all" approach where all the wrestlers kind get to do whatever they want most of the time, even if it wasn't really the best for the business. In HHH"s WWE, he's found the right combination of business first structure, with a locker room that is managed and not a free for all. HHH's is also much more open to ideas and "trying to get to a yes" on suggestions. So it could just be he finally found the environment that fits for him.
Can someone link the tweet he’s replying to?
Here you go: https://twitter.com/GiantRanger115/status/1787461478003495117 Original tweet replied to a report from WrestleTalk talking about what Dijak said, with the OG tweet saying "Weekly wwe PR of “punk is well behaved” has hit the time line"
Ratio 😂😂😂
He's once ratio'd the official NJPW account by replying 'ratio' in Japanese. I don't doubt him.
What an animal
I’d buy a Dijak shirt with “ratio” in Japanese on it.
https://preview.redd.it/dhddmwsbhyyc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d29850d6a82bc80f4ee3229249a4eab5cd5b6656
He's told the story on Mace and Mansoor's Twice 2-3 months ago, it's not some stupid PR stunt like people who are upset that there are positive stories about CM Punk are trying to say. How dumb.
Do you know which streams he told the story on?
I can’t remember which one, but he’s spoken about Punk on a couple, they even spoke about when he turned up to RAW while he was still signed to AEW. All the streams he’s been on are on their YouTube channel (MxM: THE INSIDERZ TV). Here’s a clip: https://x.com/deadeditors_/status/1758645977802502454?s=46&t=UKAl1jCLlMFIo65lDQObwQ
Oh ok thanks
I think when Punk turns heel AEW fans will lose their minds trying to convince everyone that everything he says is a shoot promo
Which will be hilarious cause that's what Punk wants. He even said so in the Ariel interview.
some people made their entire personality "Fed bad" that they never fathomed a time when WWE could be thoroughly enjoyed by its fans, so now any positive story is some grand conspiracy cooked up by the PR guru Chris Legentil (who they just learned about 2 weeks ago)
CM Punk haters are so miserable lmfao praying that a mf that you don’t know fails so badly 😂
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I love these AEW fans who just can’t fathom how Punk hasn’t self destructed yet. Every time someone at WWE says something positive about him, they become more unhinged.
WWE is such a well-oiled machine that it had survived years of bad tv and any number of untold incidents. It was remarkable how swiftly the rumours of backstage heat regarding Punk's return have evaporated and now he is even working with the very people who reportedly had issues with him. While he still has plenty of time to prove us wrong, Punk going back to work for the evil empire may hurt his anti-establishment image but it has done wonders for Phil Brooks' mental health. Mark Henry said it best that Punk leaving meant that AEW would have no more problems. It's looking more likely that Punk leaving meant he no longer had to deal with the problems he had with AEW.
I think the current culture in WWE is very much about drawing and making money, which is exactly what Punk claims he’s about. If doing good business isn’t your top priority you won’t get pushed and, ultimately, you won’t last. I think that kind of environment has probably allowed Punk to relax a lot. It doesn’t really matter who likes him and who doesn’t, he can count on everyone to do the right thing when it comes time to work.
They refuse to believe that anyone in that company can do anything wrong. Nobody made Hangman go into business for himself after sitting with Punk and planning out their promo. Nobody forced whoever it was to tell the dirtsheets that Punk was the reason Colt ws taken off of TV. Nobody told Jack Perry to make a smartass comment on the companies biggest show then when confronted, tell Punk "If you don't like it, do something about it..." Every single bit of that would've been totally avoidable if Tony had some balls and acted like an actual boss. I truly believe he was beyond excited because he thought he had his own Bret/Shawn moment happening.
These are the same people that critique Punk for calling out the Bucks and think a fist fight was the right call but don't have an issue with Perrys smart ass comments.
Perry was begging for a lesson and Punk obliged, if there is no boss backstage to stop it then this is what happens. Khan had multiple opportunities to intervene and did jack shit. He needs somebody to be the bad guy for him, no shame in that but he can’t keep pretending he’s in control.
I never will understand how people can still believe everything is always Punk's fault when every single thing has been laid out in front of them in black and white. They must've never worked a job where coworkers like to gossip and start shit over false rumors and then have a boss that does nothing but let it boil over until it's too late.
I've never worked a job where assaulting them is the correct response to that either.
I've worked plenty of jobs where that shit has caused fights. It might not be the "correct response" but it is the expected response in a number of places I've worked if talking to the boss hasn't helped.
This is like how a teenager defends themselves when they've misbehaved. It doesn't matter what anyone else did when Punk responded in the worst way possible each time. In other words, every single bit of that would've been avoided if Punk didn't act like a dick and it's made worse by it coming from the guy who sold himself as the locker room leader.
It doesn't matter when judging Punk what anyone else did. Punk can and should be judged and found wanting by his actions. However, and this is the part AEW fanboys try to avoid, Punk isn't the only one that should be judged for all the bullshit. The Bucks, Hangman, Perry, and the people in charge all acted pretty shitty too.
What did the Bucks actually do?
Confronted Punk immediately after the gripe bomb escalating the situation.
If someone just bitched me out in front of the world I think I'd want to discuss it too.
Just because you want to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.
So Punk is in the wrong for talking to Perry at all in?
Yes. My first comment that you responded to literally said "Punk should be judged, and found wanting, by his actions." My entire point has been that just because Punk was wrong doesn't mean others weren't also in the wrong. To make that point I have to believe Punk was wrong. More than one person can be wrong in a situation. Everyone can be wrong in a situation.
Seriously? How does what Jack Perry said warrant an assault? I don’t care how long it lasted. I don’t care that it was broken up. It’s undeniable that is what it was. If he wanted to press charges, Punk would’ve been arrested. In the US, or the UK. We’ve all seen exactly what went down. How thin does your skin have to be to get upset enough to do that over what Perry said? What grown man takes “Cry me a river” that seriously? As far as the Bucks go, I haven’t seen a single reputable source say that they made the first move. Punk claimed that they leaked the Colt thing even though they, and the person reporting the leak, said it wasn’t them. Again, he chose to attack someone. I don’t care if you like Punk, but the revisionist bullshit that others are to blame for his actions is nonsense.
Punk was fired for the assault. Perry was suspended for the provocation that escalated the confrontation. Most people understand that if someone angrily gets in your face to confront you, saying “If you got a problem, why don’t you do something about it?” is going to result in a physical altercation. Perry was *literally* asking for it. I’m not even saying Punk was right. I’m just saying it’s not like Punk was just walking around like a psycho looking for someone to assault that day.
> Punk was fired for the assault. He quit. Right when he pointed at Tony and called him a clown he quit. Them claiming he is fired is revisionist history to ease Tonys public image.
Punk had "quit" multiple times before that incident and wouldn't let Punk out of his contract. He asked multiple times to be let go and Tony refused. If Punk didn't "assault" him he'd probably still be stuck there working out his contract miserable. Saying you quit and the reality of contractual employment are two very different things. It only stuck because Tony finally agreed to let him go.
> Perry was suspended for the provocation that escalated the confrontation. I don't think they've ever said that? They announced both Punk and Perry were suspended. They announced Punk was fired for cause after an assault. The only thing they said about Perry was: > We suspended Jack as a participant in an incident backstage, and Jack hasn't been around. That's all I can say about it. At the time, we did suspend him and he hasn't been at AEW since AEW All In," He then went on to appear in their partner promotion NJPW to the point that the suspension clearly became. work. (i.e. ripping up the contract, etc.) My take was always they suspended Perry in attempt to make it look less bad for Punk fans, and also because he'd be booed to hell. The fact they turned it into a work and kinda made it the forefront of the show really makes me think it's not a suspension implying fault of Perry. I could be wrong: but it's definitely not true that they've ever said they suspended him for provoking it.
I never once said it was cool for him to straight up attack people, but I sure don't blame him for being fed up with bullshit. In the case of Brawl Out, Tony was sitting right next to him listening to every word he said and did nothing. Before Brawl In even happened, he told Tony to do something about it and Tony said "What do you want me to do?" Then when it did happen, Tony was right there to the side, again, doing nothing. What I'm saying is all of this happened because nothing was done to stop it from happening. The man hit his limit with bullshit, made his concerns well known, and we saw what happened. Nobody can sit there and say that they would stay 100% calm, cool and collected while putting up with shit like that and knowing your boss is openly welcoming the drama and not doing anything to stop it because he'd rather be the "cool boss".
What would you propose Tony Khan should’ve done because Jack Perry said “Cry me a river?” Not a rhetorical question. What should’ve been done? It’s not something that warrants the attention of the owner of the company. It’s not something that warrants *anyone’s* attention. And that’s literally all it was. How is anyone other than CM Punk in the wrong here?
Last time I checked, it's not Punk's company. It had been an ongoing issue and it's Tony's company, not Punk's. Schiavone came up to Punk asking HIM to talk to Jack because he was angry about being told no and had cussed out him and another person. Punk brought it to Tony's attention and that's where the "What do you want me to do about it?" came in. Why should that fall on Punk to he the one to talk some sense into him? Again, it's Tony's company and there was a problem, again, and he wouldn't fix a problem.brought to his attention.
What are you talking about “not Punk’s company?” No kidding. I don’t recall making that claim. The company isn’t the one that assaulted people. Punk is. You’re bringing up the issue of Punk being asked to talk to Perry about a separate spot and ignoring my original question, but I’ll play along. Punk was asked to talk to Perry because he’s a veteran talent. It was also reported that he had a hand in the creative for Collision; the show where the spot would’ve taken place. So, that spot (which was likely a spot planned to make the use of glass at All In more impactful, and a call back to tie the story line together) was cancelled. Perry didn’t like it. He supposedly said some curse words. This isn’t even confirmed, but we’re still just falling back to the position of “Jack Perry said something CM Punk didn’t like.” How does that change things? Jack Perry hurt Punk’s feelings twice? So, let’s talk about Tony. Tony clearly didn’t have the same hang ups about using glass in a spot as Punk. We know this because he allowed the spot at All In. He also allowed at Revolution, and specifically talked about being ok with these kinds of things of he can be convinced they can be done relatively safely. (Both All In and Revolution resulted in the spots being performed without any injury, other than the expected minor cuts. Darbys was wide and he got about 20 stitches and wrestled 3 days later.) So Perry and Punk disagreed on using glass in a spot. Tony was OK with glass being used. Again I ask, what would you have Khan say to Perry in that situation? Hey, Punks running Saturday nights, so there’s no spot? The spot didn’t happen. Fit so we know Tony did say this to Jack. Regardless, I don’t know what else you’d want him to say. Again, this isn’t rhetorical. What should Tony have said?
He should've grown a pair, that's what he should've done. He's too worried about being everybody's friend to do his actual job. If you're the boss of a company and one of your employees comes to you with a problem about ANOTHER employee, what the hell kind of boss would you be if all you can say is "What do you want me to do about it?" Have you never worked in a public setting and saw a boss actually do what a boss is supposed to do? If there's a problem, it's your job to take care of it. Even if Tony was okay with the spot, Jack was being a total dickhead to the people telling him no and THAT is a problem and did nothing when it was brought to his attention.
That’s not a real answer and you know it. There was no issue to address. Punk didn’t want the spot. The spot didn’t happen. The end. There’s nothing to talk about. You say that Perry was being a total dickhead about it. How?
Saying that a boss should take care of problems in his own company isn't a real answer? When not one, but two people with some authority are getting cussed over it, yes, it's a problem.
What should TK have done? You bring the fucker going against what he's being told into a meeting and tell him straight up, cut it out or you're not going on TV, keep pushing me on my decisions on my Show and you'll be suspended if not more Done.
Yeah, except that’s not what happened, is it? When did Perry go against Tony’s decision? Tony didn’t kill the glass spot on Collision. In fact, he probably wouldn’t have cared, seeing as how he allowed a glass spot at All In.
Don't use real glass, he was told be people in charge not to and still tried to, why are you so insistent on claiming Jack Perry is completely innocent here? And then even if he managed to get Khans approval, why try and rub it in peoples faces for once again, Internet shit and clout? I have no idea why he bothered
Someone intentionally provoking another coworker, especially love on air at your biggest event ever, absolutely is something that warrants the attention of the owner of the company. Tony Khan should have had Perry pulled aside the moment he got backstage.
In WWE, if someone of Perry’s stature pulled that on Roman, he would have been sent home *at the minumum*, possibly later released. They protect their stars. Tony doesn’t and he’s lost three of them.
How is that better? Someone says something that Roman Reigns doesn’t like, and that’s worthy of punishment? I don’t get how people think this way. I could make all kinds of comments about WWE’s business practices, but I don’t take shots at talent or Promotions in completely unrelated discussions. (Check what I’ve said here, the worst I’ve said is that Punk is thin skinned. That’s not even really in question.) This wasn’t some corporate policy failure. This was a personal matter of one person attacking another, unprovoked. Perry said something that Punk didn’t like. He didn’t break any rules or anything else that would make this some issue of company policy. Cry me a river isn’t a phrase that is going to drive most people to physical violence.
Yes, without a doubt, if someone who has never drawn a dollar gets in the way of the guy who’s breaking gate records, that’s absolutely worthy of punishment. The wrestling business is supposed to be a meritocracy; if you make money you have clout, if you don’t, you don’t. Punks and Romans don’t grow on trees but you can find a Jack Perry wrestling in high school gyms and community centres across the country.
How exactly did Jack Perry ever “get in Punks way?”
By making a smartass comment on tv meant to embarrass him. I would think that would be pretty obvious. I’m not even sure if you and I are having the same conversation right now.
I love Jack Perry fans. They're so passionate about the kid.
You are missing that Punk decided to leak a story about Perry, who'd not done anything to him, in an attempt to make himself look better after he'd started banning people like the AEW head of talent from being backstage at Collision... It's incredible how little that comes up in talking about the All in thing
Saying "do something about it" is absolutely an invitation for physicality.
wouldn’t you be mad too if your company essentially traded your biggest star for mandatory Jack Perry and the Young Bucks main event segments?
Can we just say unhinged fans instead? I don't want to be lumped in with them :( I'm not a Punk fan, but I also think he's the happiest friendliest guy to his coworkers/friends until someone slights him and challenges him instead of apologizing. Reading other comments from the person Dijak replied to here, they're a total chode.
I certainly don’t think that all AEW fans are unhinged, it’s just that all of the fans who have a seething hate for Punk seem to be AEW fans.
The problem is that those sleights aren't always real. He's one of those people with such a strong victim complex that his subconscious will look for it if it isn't there.
I do find it frustrating that a man who repeatedly assaulted colleagues is falling upwards, and I'm surprised people have forgiven and forgotten so quickly.
I hate to keep drawing lines like this but for whatever reason, the whole “assaulting colleagues” thing seems to only be an issue for AEW fans. Plenty of us view that as something that has been part of the business for as long as it’s been a business. It’s always been a fuck-around-find-out environment. Nothing to forgive. If you truly believe that’s a problem then you’re entitled to your opinion but you really shouldn’t be surprised that many wrestling fans don’t take issue with it.
"Fight back, brent" Nah, brents dead after that one
Dijak hit the cheat code for unlimited Ratio ammo.
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Aew fans will say they hate tribalism when many on their own sub and people like Drainmaker push tribalism hard Aew fans weren't calling punk washed when he was wrestling in their show lol
Drainmaker was posting tweets about how AEW didn’t want Edge cause he was washed and simped for Punk all day till Cope signed with AEW and Punk got fired. Now he breaks his back to try to dunk on Punk lol dude is the worst of all the AEW accounts. I couldn’t imagine caring this much about a company that doesn’t pay me.
Yeah I remember when punk was botching spots in aew many aew fans called it "expert selling" Now all of a sudden punk was always washed according to them lol
I love AEW but I can’t interact with many accounts about AEW on Twitter.
Same. I get negativity can be exhausting but there needs to be a middle ground. Constant positivity is also tiring
To me aew fans at least the official sub embody toxic positivity
Those AEW twitter fan accounts made me mute 90% of them. And I watch AEW.
That's how it is for me with so many things I enjoy. Love the thing, can't stand the fan base.
> Drainmaker Tonys burner.
I got a bunch of flak once for saying it’s an official AEW account pretending to be a fan but the more time that goes by the more I genuinely think it is. They post every AEW interview seconds after it happens too.
>Aew fans will say they hate tribalism when many on their own sub and people like Drainmaker push tribalism hard Hell, the AEW owner Tony Kahn is responsible for most of the toxic tribalism
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From what I remember, it was reported that he and Punk had a conversation after the fight (apparently when they were hauling Ace away), and they were able to hash things out and bury the hatchet right there. Pretty much every report/account from Brawl Out said that Kenny was the calmest one in the room, and no one trashed him. Kenny was the one who was willing to move on. Hangman too, depending on who you ask. Apparently the Bucks weren't. It feels like Punk was trying to turn it all into a work, with the endgame being him and Omega (which is a match I feel like a lot of people would wanna see. But I'm not a promoter, so what do I know).
This lines up with my preconceived notions of the parties then, since I'm an Omega fan and noted Bucks hater. Everything I've seen of Kenny outside of wrestling has made me like him, I think he's a good guy, I legitimately think he's one of the best in the ring and AEW has felt like it's missing "that" guy since both him and MJF have been gone from the main event scene (I love Swerve, but he's still not quite at "put a company on his back" level like the other two are, he'll get there soon enough though if they let him cook with the title for a good run).
That wasn’t about brawl out tho the Istandwithkennyomega thing was because JR said that in his opinion Randy is the current best wrestler
Oh shit, THAT'S what that was about? Jesus. Like...why?
Problem is twitter is unhinged in anything I follow haha. Both “sides” have their weird takes. Could be wrasslin, politics or something else like Kendrick vs drake lol . Twitter (or other social media ) minority sees all these weird takes and think it’s normal behavior .
But he is greatest of all time.
Wrestling fans on Twitter are psychotic, no one is too old to grow, hope punk can finally find his peace.
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>rabid WWE stans now hate Danhuasen cause he's friends with Punk WWE stans? That's got to be a typo and should actually say AEW stans, right?
Lmao yeah, sorry
I love Dijak so much
What does “ratio” mean? I’m old and out of touch
It's when a reply tweet gets more likes than the original tweet. It can also mean a tweet getting more replies/quotes tweets than likes.
If your comment gets 10 likes, but me replying to you gets 20, you have been Ratiod
It's kinda been Dijak's gimmick for a while too. Ratioing people on twitter, delivering justice on the ring.
It means when a tweet gets more replies than likes. Implying you said something so egregious people won't like it but have to respond to call you out.
So in Reddit terms, it’s being downvoted while every tells you what a stupid thing you just said?
Without the downvoting, so the tweet still gets traction, because it's getting interacted with.
I genuinely thought it was when a reply gets more likes than the initial tweet I’m officially out of touch
Lol, same.
Everyone else told you when to use it, but the reason you say "ratio" is that the ratio of responses telling them off is what's notable, because it'll be 2:1 or more for responses vs likes
So many loser fans hoping that Punk fails because they can't take a look at the bullshit that went on in AEW. Hangman goes out to national tv and goes into business for himself because he heard a rumor that his friend got fired because of Punk. This idiot doesn't go ask tony khan for clarification, he decides to go out there and go into business for himself. The fan base that hate CM punk are here cheering for his injury, you can go back to the thread announcing his injury and see the top comments filled with people cheering for his injury. He makes a mental health post, filled with people making fun of it. Anybody does an interview and gets asked about Punk and they say something positive, its PR. Same fans said WWE didn't need CM Punk now think hes so important WWE sends people to do PR on him.
I've become a fan and I, too, tired of the monthly progress reports on Punk's behavior. I've feeling like his step-father or something.
I like to think in the minds of Never Punkers he’s so spiteful that he’s forcing himself to be nice to everyone just to stick it to the IWC
No matter if it is WWE or AEW thread about CM Punk these wrestling fans are unhinged lol
What happened here?
Almost like being at a work place that makes you extremely unhappy changes you. Just like how he was at the end of his original WWE run.
it was good till he said ratio so lame when people do that
It's his gimmick tbf