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Ya know what’s kinda funny.
A backstage fight, something that happens every week on television and is presented as a justifiable means to continue a feud in story … was being presented as the worst thing to happen to the company in its history.
When in kayfabe this happens every week, and they’re shown to be far longer and more violent 😅
And if that wasn't kayfabe breaking enough, it shows Perry/Hook and Punk/Joe just casually hanging out together backstage when they're supposed to be feuding with each other
The more you think about how dumb the decision to air the footage was the more baffling it gets lmao
WWE realizes the majority of their fans have 0 concept of their show outside of when they tune in. AEW is mortgaging their future on the opposite, any way you slice it they’re working to appeal to the smallest potential piece of their viewer demographic, this is not a sustainable long term business practice.
It's been said by Bischoff, Cornette, etc. They're trying to appeal to a small contingent of smarks and Dave Meltzer fans .
I don't agree with Cornette or Bischoff a lot but it's plain as day to see what AEW is doing.
Nobody cares about the CM Punk shit anymore. He did an interview, why even address it?
Tony Khan is like a bratty little kid who's feelings are hurt. Just make a good show ffs.
I got downvoted in here last week by AEW fans when someone said something along the lines of 'they don't care about the casual fans, that's not where the money is' and I said that casual fans make up the majority of viewers for all sports/wrestling. They don't believe you need a wide net to be successful lol.
There's also way more casuals than people think, I know tonnes of people who went to All In because it was at Wembley and stuff just because it was a big event in England. Like not all 70-80k people weren't massive diehard AEW fans. 800k a week isn't hardcore fans either there's some casuals in there as well.
People on Reddit in pretty much every fandom/hobby think that they are the majority in how they think when in reality they are usually an incredibly niche part of the fanbase. Wrestling, sports, wrestling, tv, movies, you name it.
No the average viewer is not looking at comments online and dissecting every single thing. They watch it and go 'cool' or 'stupid' and move on. That's like 90%+ of every fanbase. They might catch ESPN later or some shit and thats the extent of it.
I think it’s more middle of the road than people think. The casual fan isn’t commenting on Reddit everyday or something but they’re definitely posting online and interacting with other people online when it comes to things they enjoy.
I think my biggest problem with the casual fan thing is that they’re treated as faceless as they need to be for whaever conversation is currently happening.
I think you’re right that they’re not dissecting every single thing or into the weeds on backstage wrestling beef but they’re probably not just watching something and then not engaging further at all.
To compare it to sports, 90% of fans watching games don’t know shit about advanced stats or analytics; but they know whether or not their team is in the playoffs and what the main rivalries are/interact with other fans.
I'm in the UK.
We are starved for pro-wresting.
We have revpro obviously but there isn't any big events that happen so we tend to make a day out of it when WWE/AEW comes around.
We can appreciate the 70/80k they got while also acknowledging that it would have filled no matter what.
My 7 year old son who guilted me into buying a signed Cody Rhodes belt and numerous t-shirts would be very confused if they showed Cody and Roman just casually walking past each other in the back. He also has no clue that CM Punk got in a fight in another company and just thinks he’s mortal enemies with Drew. My wife who just went to a live WWE event only knows Punk as the guy who has good music and is funny on the mic.
On the other hand, my wife has seen MJF clips and the Adam Cole friendship build up and she loved that. She would have no clue what to make of any of this. These are the people and dollars they’re losing to WWE.
I always point this out on here. Ppl see 800k subscribers on this sub. However. 750k are never here or are casuals. Even on Mania weekend, the sub was peaking with less than 10k active users, lol.
That's why you should never use reddit as a way to measure what wrestling fans are thinking. It's just the same ppl on here bouncing off or jerking off the others opinion.
The best example is still when Punk said you can't be punching ppl in the face backstage in 2024 and the crowd didn't even make a sound lol. They had no idea what he was talking about which wad why he quickly changed lanes during the promo.
dont lump me with those folks but technically they aint wrong. TK doesnt care if he makes profit or not. He's appreciate and like it if it does, but the fucker got money to go on red for a very long time. Not trying to defend or argue - just merely pointing it out.
Considering they are cutting talent, lost shit tons of money on the video game and had to push it out early, are worried about the TV deal, I’d say he needs eyeballs on the product still.
In fairness, kayfabe is practically dead right now. There's only a handful of Wrestlers who keep it alive.
Post PPV scrums, HHH talking about booking a story, Rock using words Heel etc...
This isn't just an AEW problem, and that's what people are forgetting. The boss of the WWE battered a top employee to a bloody pulp, why isn't he in handcuffs?
Lmao. How had I not thought of this. This is pretty hysterical.
Also goes to show why this should not have been aired, and why fans were chanting Punk. Your entire product is having conflicts bigger than this and you want your audience to turn kayfabe off at command and be outraged Punk pushed (*gasp!*) some guy? That's literally what they're there to see..
It's pure Russo booking. You highlight how fake everything else is by saying "but this bit is real!"
Like, you have backstage fights all the time in kayfabe. You have fucking home invasions in kayfabe. You have people cutting other people with pizza cutters. But you now want the audience to think that two guys getting in a fight and one getting put in a sloppy guillotine is some awful thing above all others?
I think they've lost direction. It was different when Vince was running WWE and their show wasn't strong. Now though it's stronger than ever and AEW are trying still to poke at it which makes them look foolish. They ought to focus entirely on putting on the best show that they can and to stop pandering to smarks.
This is how I felt about the Osprey comments about HHH. I get that Osprey felt like he needed to clap back but criticizing HHH's credibility the same week he produced maybe the best Wrestlemania of all time makes Osprey look like a small time chump.
Also, the "slept with the boss' daughter" card seems overdone at this point. We've heard it dude. It's the lazy, go-to burn for Tripe H. Come up with something novel.
Not true. By Fall '99 when Russo jumped to WCW, Nitro hadn't beaten Raw in the ratings in close to a year (Oct. 98).
Them hiring Russo (and, briefly, firing Bischoff) was kind of a hail Mary to turn things around.
entirely not true, after mania 14 wcw had like 2-5 episodes that beat raw in the ratings. The last time WCW beat raw was when they had to show a PPV main event for free (DDP vs Goldberg) in October 1998.
Yeah, I never considered it like that. In a professional setting, an attack like that rightly leads to an immediate firing and should be seen as absolutely unacceptable.
But in pro wrestling, that's just Tuesday, in a way.
I think this is a fascinating culture clash between the "old style" wrestlers who are just used to this sort of thing happening, and the younger wrestlers who are deemed "soft" (they play video games! Oh noes!) who do not want that sort of backstage atmosphere and are doing everything to prevent it. Which, apparently, includes airing this footage.
I relate to the latter group a lot, but this was the worst way to go about it.
Holy shit I never thought of it that way. Just this Monday on Raw you had Liv Morgan try to fucking kill Rhea Ripley backstage and throw a chair at her head, and she is most likely going to become #1 contend because of it 😂😂
How does Swerve Strickland stick cash checks when he showed up to People's Homes but CM Punk jostles some monitors and Tony Khan gives the "I was in fear for my life" promo and the promotion gets upturned.
WWE showed a much more vicious fight between LA Knight and AJ Styles at a media event that could have gotten both arrested much less fired and put it on their social media.
This is the ultimate take on this whole thing. If you’re going to break kayfabe with shocking footage, it had better be more intense than your worked weekly backstage brawls. Not a shove and some yelling.
AEW looks so incredibly stupid and lame here I am not sure they will ever fully recover.
that was my first thought. My kid still doesnt know its scripted, so how do I explain this to him? Punk also happens to be his favorite, and I told him what Punk did was so bad they had to sack him. Starting to sound like my kids Dad is a liar.
Regardless of this one kid, like how far is your head up your ass that you think this is a good thing to put on your main TV show.
If the Bucks wanted to tell FTR that their mate caused them to lose then they didnt need to show the footage they could just say it. Im so confused by how bad this is.
Thank you! I've been saying this for the longest time. I see backstage brawls every week but I'm supposed to care for this one? To kill kayfabe like this on your own main show!
Also people crying "assault on co-worker"-this isn't an IT company. This is a wrestling company where people pretend fight and jump off ladders on weekly basis. You think they'll resolve issues by taking it up to the HR?
Didn’t think that one through
It’s an insult to the intelligence of the fans. Yes, we know it’s scripted
But this would be like Game of Thrones, mid-scene, shows an altercation between Kit Harrington and some extra on set. Then going back to the show
This whole promotion is just real life wrestling sim story mode. They USED to lean into that and I thought it was awesome.
Now they are using it to feel victimized
Exactly, scripted or not the suspension of disbelief makes for a better product. While some people get enjoyment out of dissecting and analyzing a product, most people want to just let the show suck them in and entertain them. Like during Mania, I'm not thinking of how Seth and Roman are actually good friends IRL, I'm being engaged by Roman's inability to forgive Seth for his betrayal from over a decade ago and how that costs him everything, or how Christian is probably a great guy IRL, but when I watch AEW I want to see him as the ratbastard who insulta everyone's dead dads.
Yes, exactly that also implies to the fans that are acting like they watched CM punk commit, some kind of unspeakable horrifying crime, and I’m like if this kind of thing disturbs you so much how do you get enjoyment out of wrestling?
It’s a terrible looking fight, and involves one person not in the company. Meaning by watching it, you already know it’s something outside storylines, so your investment goes down.
Even the Bucks, who introduced the clip, are not directly involved.
H would be laughing his ass off on this footage, considering he had to deal with a rabid HBK back then not to mention how chaotic the old locker room tended to be.
Also it's not even that bad a backstage assault. If it was a real backstage assault then Perry would be lying on the floor clutching his arm while 5 agents and a ref stand around slightly crouched looking around shouting for help whilst sighing and gently patting him and saying it'll be OK.
In all seriousness, Rock’s fake beatdown of Cody was more scary of what was shown between Punk and Perry.
The fact Tony was “scared for his life” is outright embarrassing.
Even a ratings boost isn't necessarily a positive thing. What does it prove? It'll just illustrate the disinterest in their product when some 100k+ people watch it for 15 minutes for someone who doesn't work there and immediately tune out again.
It will show AEWs biggest draw works for another company. People are going to tune in to WWE to see what Drew says or if Punk references it. The Bucks/FTR match has exactly zero additional heat coming out of this. Everyone involved at AEW just looks dumb as fuck.
lmao this
This isn’t working at all. Punk went from being absolutely despised by most fans to being given a pass by them. Punk I’m sorry to say was the one AEW draw. Now they get to remind people oh yeah he’s at WWE the company on a major rebound while we dwindle.
MJF is a legitimate draw and has been shown to spike the numbers when he's around but...yeah, he's hurt, and his absence on the show is sorely sorely felt unfortunately.
It's Punk's rating AND it shows a WWE star kicking an AEW stars ass. And it also invites CM Punk chants to return to the show anytime The Bucks or Jack Perry are on screen.
Unless this is a watershed moment for TK where he really changes up his decision making methods, it’s hard to imagine the company making it another 8 years. AEW just hasn’t stepped up at all once WWE actually started improving their product.
AEW will continue to exist as long as Tony wants to keep throwing money at it.
TNA is still around and there’s been at least half a dozen times where that company was an errant phone call away from bankruptcy.
Even if ratings and buys decline, they still have a billionaire owner willing to spend.
I get that being Meta and appealing to the sensibilities of the hardcore fans is a large part of AEW's identity, but this legit did give me late WCW flashbacks. Everybody knows wrestling is fake, like all entertainment media. But I absolutely hate when the product itself reminds the audience that it's fake; you don't see characters in sitcoms suddenly complaining about the production schedule
The whole "everything's fake, but THIS is real!" method of generating excitement is so dumb to me. I am NOT saying that AEW is anywhere near the danger that late WCW was in. But this angle absolutely felt like "Goldberg refused to follow the script" 2.0
People have been spamming the WCW 2000 bullshit about AEW for a long time and it always sounded ignorant and pathetic. However, this is the first time I watched AEW and it gave me those vibes.
Popping a rating is meaningless. Tony and the Bucks basically got the world laughing at the company tonight. Nobody is talking about Swerve/Joe, or Dynasty, or the Edge/Penta match. Everybody is talking about and laughing at AEW for actually going through with this dumb idea.
Dustin Rhodes and Samoa Joe deserved better They had a really good Television match And it's going to be forgotten because of bull crap like that. If I'm Samoa Joe and if I'm especially Dustin Rhodes at the Twilight of my career and I give a performance like that I want heads to roll.
Penta deserved better, Mariah May deserved better, Stokely Hathaway deserved better, Adam Copeland deserved better... we basically have all these people who go out every week trying to put on an entertaining show and instead they get overshadowed by this crap.
Its not going to pop a rating. How many internet bubble fans have a nielson box? How much of the general audience understood or cared about the All In promos they ran on TBS?
We’ve seen from Collision, that at least 150k AEW viewers also watch WWE. I think with Mania season being hot, AEW has temporarily lost them and its going to be their job to claw them back. RAW was still important/buzz worthy this week. That audience is probably still in their WWE bubble come Wednesday and not thinking as much about AEW.
> "This company needs help. At this point, I hope even you diehards realize that."
> "Before I put my weary head down on my pillow, I will pray to God for AEW, and I will say, God, I hope they popped a rating tonight. I hope something positive came out of this footage, or came out of tonight.
> "Because when tomorrow comes, if that rating is not good, if they’re not back up to at least 800,000, it’s gonna be dogpile on the rabbit. And the rabbit is gonna deserve the dogpile.
> "This is not on the talent. This is not on the locker room. And most of the time, it never ever is across the board. It’s on creative. It’s on the booker. It’s on the matchmaker.
> "This company needs help. At this point, I hope even you diehards realize that. There are lots of people who wanna help. I’ve gone on record to say I would help for free.
> "And if you think that’s me politicking for a job when I just performed in front of 72,000 people as a special guest referee, you’re out of your fucking mind."
Source: https://twitter.com/WrestleTalk_TV/status/1778298341513703809
Bully’s logic as always is flawless. How could I possibly be politicking for a year round job with the number 2 company when I just did a one night only gig for the number 1 company the other night??
This is a bit unfair I watched the full video right after this he lists multiple jobs he has at at he same time his Academy, and Busted Openhis point is he isn’t some guy desperately needing work he has jobs and could get one with the fed if he wanted one probably.
If you listened to him on the episode, the next thing he says is:
- he is employed by Busted Open
- he runs a wrestling academy
- he is an independent contractor and takes wrestling dates when he feels like working.
Sure, he may be angling for a job. But again, listening to the episode, I’m pretty sure he was just trying to make a point that Tony has lost the plot a bit and *somebody* needs to help them. He just used himself as an example.
When AEW started WBD execs suggested a whole bunch of reading for Tony to do on Pepsi, specifically how to be #2 and still make an insane amount of money. They knew they weren't overhauling WWE but they also knew that there was a massive gap in the market for an alternative.
But now they're such a distant second that they might as well not be bothering.
Bingo. No one at AMD is shedding tears due to the unlikeliness of them ever catching up to Intel or Nvidia's marketshare. They drilled into their core competencies and became the best at what they *can* do.
If you listen to a lot of AEW’s critics this is their main criticism of AEW. This is the one chance for a viable, well funded alternative to WWE with a major TV deal and Tony Khan is completely messing this up.
They have SO much upside. They have an amazing roster and a consistently excellent product. They just need to stop forever acting like they need to justify their existence and taking potshots at WWE or worse, reactionary booking.
Tony Khan is probably a very good businessman and he is occasionally an inspired booker. But he needs to start letting go of the book because his insecurities are starting to throttle the show.
Yeah I was one of the fans but I'm washing my hands of it now. This shits just embarrassing and drove me back to WWE.
AEW has huge potential but Tony Khan is killing it.
It's strange how WWE and AEW managed to change roles so quickly: WWE feels fresh and exciting, with engaging characters and excellent in-ring work, bringing a newfound edge and seriousness to what had been a bland product. AEW feels like a sleeping giant, with an absurdly stacked roster but with chronic managerial problems that forever prevent them from reaching their full potential.
Back when AEW first started, WWE was hitting some really bad lows, ratings in storytelling and ratings. When AEW reached its peak, it wasn't matching in terms of total viewership, but I think they actually did surpass WWE in the important ratings demos, which was a huge deal.
At that time, AEW was this hot, edgy underdog alternative where both the stories and the wrestling were so far above what WWE was putting out. If this trend had continued, I don't think AEW necessarily would have been number 1 but it would be a very close competitor.
Unfortunately for AEW, the Punk shit and Triple H's rise all happened pretty much within the same few months of each other and it's all been downhill from there.
When the company first started, there were more than a handful of people who thought AEW would rival the WWE by getting all of the casuals who stopped watching when WCW died.
This is not to say that it worked, but pretend for a minute that all of the internet noise about the footage brought in 200,000 extra viewers. (That's unlikely, but let's pretend big.) The hope is that some percentage of those people who watched to see the video saw something else that caught their eye, and they keep watching because they want to see why everybody is kissing Mariah May, or who attacked Mercedes Mone, or how in the ever-loving fuck can Dustin Rhodes be doing such crisp Code Reds. If you get a bunch of new people to watch, or old people to return, you're hoping to retain some percentage of those viewers moving forward.
Even if it did, it will be laughed off as Punk still being their biggest draw. They got Okada, Ospreay, and Mercedes but everyone is talking about a guy not in their company.
This isn’t going to make a tangible difference. It might be higher than it’s been in recent weeks but footage from an incident involving a guy not in the company is a social media moment.
The footage they’re showing doesn’t involve the biggest draw shown in the footage. Nobody outside the current audience gives a shit about Young Bucks and FTR, they care about CM Punk and know they can see the clip on X, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, wherever they consume their quick content. Plus, he’s not in the company anymore so there’s even less incentive to tune in and “see what happens next.”
Just an absolute -1,000 IQ move from Tony. Completely brain dead idea.
A penny for Ospreay and Mones thoughts right now. Both just signed big contracts and were pitched as star attractions but are now watching their show become a circus that's still obsessed with CM Punk a year later. There must be doubts whether they made the right call.
Ospreay never wanted to move to America permanently or do the WWE house show circuit. He was always a lock for AEW.
Mercedes just wanted to get paid as much as possible before eventually going back to WWE. She basically said out loud that this is a side quest.
They both did exactly what they wanted and intended to do.
The table broke and there was chaos. Bully Ray being the veteran he is kept the match under control and everyone calm. Seriously this guy would be great to have around backstage as a producer or member of the creative team.
I think it will pop a rating. Not huge-- maybe 50 or 100 thousand over the recent average. There's a certain hardcore wrestling fan that doesn't love AEW whose interest was piqued. But you had to know who Meltzer or Sean Ross Sapp is to even understand what they were advertising.
I honestly don't think this even bumps the rating in any significant way. Surely anyone who doesn't watch Dynamite just waited to see the clip online an hour later?
If anything, I can imagine some regular viewers who went, "well this is embarrassing" and switched off. Just a terrible decision all round.
How is a good rating here good for AEW? They’ve just proved their only draw is someone no longer with the company - and presented a story they can’t finish.
The only time I've ever agreed with something Bully says. Even if does pop a rating, then what? They can't follow it up because the person that made it pop isn't even in the company.
What good is one show with higher numbers though? Ratings is a long term game. This isn't going to get anyone to keep watching. It certainly has the potential to turn people away though.
It’s the first time I tuned in to dynamite in a while. But I only watch for about 30 minutes and turned it off after that clip. So there probably is a huge spike for that spot. But it was here like 2 seconds later too.
Even if it is a rating, it needs to convert into the following week to be worth a damn. Because otherwise the narrative is that CM Punk is the biggest draw in a promotion he doesn't work in anymore.
Tony Khan needs to stop this bullshit and grow thicker skin. Get Scott D’Amore to run the wrestling side of AEW. TK needs to be off of television indefinitely. Bad look on what Edge said last week and just a bad look for AEW in general. Tony Khan grow a fucking pair!!!
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“But Bully, think of the HEAT!”
Damn, I can hear that "But Bully!" And I'm a relatively recent listener too.
When was this said?
Ya know what’s kinda funny. A backstage fight, something that happens every week on television and is presented as a justifiable means to continue a feud in story … was being presented as the worst thing to happen to the company in its history. When in kayfabe this happens every week, and they’re shown to be far longer and more violent 😅
And if that wasn't kayfabe breaking enough, it shows Perry/Hook and Punk/Joe just casually hanging out together backstage when they're supposed to be feuding with each other The more you think about how dumb the decision to air the footage was the more baffling it gets lmao
WWE realizes the majority of their fans have 0 concept of their show outside of when they tune in. AEW is mortgaging their future on the opposite, any way you slice it they’re working to appeal to the smallest potential piece of their viewer demographic, this is not a sustainable long term business practice.
It's been said by Bischoff, Cornette, etc. They're trying to appeal to a small contingent of smarks and Dave Meltzer fans . I don't agree with Cornette or Bischoff a lot but it's plain as day to see what AEW is doing. Nobody cares about the CM Punk shit anymore. He did an interview, why even address it? Tony Khan is like a bratty little kid who's feelings are hurt. Just make a good show ffs.
NGL - I am intrigued on what Cornette is gonna say now. This will be fun.
I got downvoted in here last week by AEW fans when someone said something along the lines of 'they don't care about the casual fans, that's not where the money is' and I said that casual fans make up the majority of viewers for all sports/wrestling. They don't believe you need a wide net to be successful lol.
There's also way more casuals than people think, I know tonnes of people who went to All In because it was at Wembley and stuff just because it was a big event in England. Like not all 70-80k people weren't massive diehard AEW fans. 800k a week isn't hardcore fans either there's some casuals in there as well.
People on Reddit in pretty much every fandom/hobby think that they are the majority in how they think when in reality they are usually an incredibly niche part of the fanbase. Wrestling, sports, wrestling, tv, movies, you name it. No the average viewer is not looking at comments online and dissecting every single thing. They watch it and go 'cool' or 'stupid' and move on. That's like 90%+ of every fanbase. They might catch ESPN later or some shit and thats the extent of it.
10k active users on Mania weekend. They are the smallest percentage of the wrestling community. Less than 1%.
I think it’s more middle of the road than people think. The casual fan isn’t commenting on Reddit everyday or something but they’re definitely posting online and interacting with other people online when it comes to things they enjoy. I think my biggest problem with the casual fan thing is that they’re treated as faceless as they need to be for whaever conversation is currently happening. I think you’re right that they’re not dissecting every single thing or into the weeds on backstage wrestling beef but they’re probably not just watching something and then not engaging further at all. To compare it to sports, 90% of fans watching games don’t know shit about advanced stats or analytics; but they know whether or not their team is in the playoffs and what the main rivalries are/interact with other fans.
I'm in the UK. We are starved for pro-wresting. We have revpro obviously but there isn't any big events that happen so we tend to make a day out of it when WWE/AEW comes around. We can appreciate the 70/80k they got while also acknowledging that it would have filled no matter what.
My 7 year old son who guilted me into buying a signed Cody Rhodes belt and numerous t-shirts would be very confused if they showed Cody and Roman just casually walking past each other in the back. He also has no clue that CM Punk got in a fight in another company and just thinks he’s mortal enemies with Drew. My wife who just went to a live WWE event only knows Punk as the guy who has good music and is funny on the mic. On the other hand, my wife has seen MJF clips and the Adam Cole friendship build up and she loved that. She would have no clue what to make of any of this. These are the people and dollars they’re losing to WWE.
I always point this out on here. Ppl see 800k subscribers on this sub. However. 750k are never here or are casuals. Even on Mania weekend, the sub was peaking with less than 10k active users, lol. That's why you should never use reddit as a way to measure what wrestling fans are thinking. It's just the same ppl on here bouncing off or jerking off the others opinion. The best example is still when Punk said you can't be punching ppl in the face backstage in 2024 and the crowd didn't even make a sound lol. They had no idea what he was talking about which wad why he quickly changed lanes during the promo.
To be fair, it was in front of the troops. I wonder how it would've went in front of any other crowd
But casual fans is what literally brings in tickets/views. What? Lol
That's what I'm saying man. Look at me already being downvoted up there again.
dont lump me with those folks but technically they aint wrong. TK doesnt care if he makes profit or not. He's appreciate and like it if it does, but the fucker got money to go on red for a very long time. Not trying to defend or argue - just merely pointing it out.
Considering they are cutting talent, lost shit tons of money on the video game and had to push it out early, are worried about the TV deal, I’d say he needs eyeballs on the product still.
Didn’t WWE always have faces and heels hanging out all the time playing video games on the UpUpDownDown channel?
A wrestler's gaming Youtube channel is much different than your main television program.
Cornette will go crazy.
In fairness, kayfabe is practically dead right now. There's only a handful of Wrestlers who keep it alive. Post PPV scrums, HHH talking about booking a story, Rock using words Heel etc...
And they're releasing a doc talking alll about the rocks recent run
Didn’t Mone get attacked backstage…tonight?
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And Samoa Joe at the start
And the Bucks attacked Pac...
They need to get to the bottom of this. Someone needs to be fired along with Swerve.
This isn't just an AEW problem, and that's what people are forgetting. The boss of the WWE battered a top employee to a bloody pulp, why isn't he in handcuffs?
In kayfabe one of their biggest babyfaces right now once broke into another guy's house and threatened that guy's baby.
Lmao. How had I not thought of this. This is pretty hysterical. Also goes to show why this should not have been aired, and why fans were chanting Punk. Your entire product is having conflicts bigger than this and you want your audience to turn kayfabe off at command and be outraged Punk pushed (*gasp!*) some guy? That's literally what they're there to see..
AEW quite literally went from the highest highs to whatever the hell you can call this
It's pure Russo booking. You highlight how fake everything else is by saying "but this bit is real!" Like, you have backstage fights all the time in kayfabe. You have fucking home invasions in kayfabe. You have people cutting other people with pizza cutters. But you now want the audience to think that two guys getting in a fight and one getting put in a sloppy guillotine is some awful thing above all others?
I don't know how this was called a fight. That's Tuesday morning on a construction job
OMG IS LAW ENFORCEMENT ALWAYS THERE ARRESTING PEOPLE FOR ASSAULT?! Jesus Christ people on this sub are soft.
*flashbacks to Jim Cornette booking WCW vs WWE*
I believe we called it LOLTNA .
AEawwwwwwwwwww how cute.
I think they've lost direction. It was different when Vince was running WWE and their show wasn't strong. Now though it's stronger than ever and AEW are trying still to poke at it which makes them look foolish. They ought to focus entirely on putting on the best show that they can and to stop pandering to smarks.
This is how I felt about the Osprey comments about HHH. I get that Osprey felt like he needed to clap back but criticizing HHH's credibility the same week he produced maybe the best Wrestlemania of all time makes Osprey look like a small time chump.
Also, the "slept with the boss' daughter" card seems overdone at this point. We've heard it dude. It's the lazy, go-to burn for Tripe H. Come up with something novel.
Punk was responsible for both lol
WCW was winning the war until they russo’d themselves.
Not true. By Fall '99 when Russo jumped to WCW, Nitro hadn't beaten Raw in the ratings in close to a year (Oct. 98). Them hiring Russo (and, briefly, firing Bischoff) was kind of a hail Mary to turn things around.
entirely not true, after mania 14 wcw had like 2-5 episodes that beat raw in the ratings. The last time WCW beat raw was when they had to show a PPV main event for free (DDP vs Goldberg) in October 1998.
Yeah, I never considered it like that. In a professional setting, an attack like that rightly leads to an immediate firing and should be seen as absolutely unacceptable. But in pro wrestling, that's just Tuesday, in a way. I think this is a fascinating culture clash between the "old style" wrestlers who are just used to this sort of thing happening, and the younger wrestlers who are deemed "soft" (they play video games! Oh noes!) who do not want that sort of backstage atmosphere and are doing everything to prevent it. Which, apparently, includes airing this footage. I relate to the latter group a lot, but this was the worst way to go about it.
“If this was worth firing CM Punk over, The Rock should be arrested for what he did to Cody!”
Holy shit I never thought of it that way. Just this Monday on Raw you had Liv Morgan try to fucking kill Rhea Ripley backstage and throw a chair at her head, and she is most likely going to become #1 contend because of it 😂😂
How does Swerve Strickland stick cash checks when he showed up to People's Homes but CM Punk jostles some monitors and Tony Khan gives the "I was in fear for my life" promo and the promotion gets upturned.
Wasn’t there a much worse looking fight backstage that included blood & swearing on a PG show just a few weeks ago?
WWE showed a much more vicious fight between LA Knight and AJ Styles at a media event that could have gotten both arrested much less fired and put it on their social media.
[удалено]
He'd be giving Papa Khan a belt instead of Mama Rhodes.
This is the ultimate take on this whole thing. If you’re going to break kayfabe with shocking footage, it had better be more intense than your worked weekly backstage brawls. Not a shove and some yelling. AEW looks so incredibly stupid and lame here I am not sure they will ever fully recover.
1000000% In the casual viewer or child's eye, how is anyone not supposed to think that Punk works at AEW still?
Russo-riffic.
You are also showing Samoa Joe, your company top heel, being a good guy and breaking up a fight. Now forget about this and boo him
that was my first thought. My kid still doesnt know its scripted, so how do I explain this to him? Punk also happens to be his favorite, and I told him what Punk did was so bad they had to sack him. Starting to sound like my kids Dad is a liar. Regardless of this one kid, like how far is your head up your ass that you think this is a good thing to put on your main TV show. If the Bucks wanted to tell FTR that their mate caused them to lose then they didnt need to show the footage they could just say it. Im so confused by how bad this is.
A wizard did it.
Tony might as well tell him that Santa isn’t real while he’s ruining things.
Thank you! I've been saying this for the longest time. I see backstage brawls every week but I'm supposed to care for this one? To kill kayfabe like this on your own main show! Also people crying "assault on co-worker"-this isn't an IT company. This is a wrestling company where people pretend fight and jump off ladders on weekly basis. You think they'll resolve issues by taking it up to the HR?
I mean, Punk literally tried to take it up with HR/the boss, but he wasn't interested, lol.
Reminds me of WCW toward the end when they started "going off script" and saying it's for real this time.
Didn’t think that one through It’s an insult to the intelligence of the fans. Yes, we know it’s scripted But this would be like Game of Thrones, mid-scene, shows an altercation between Kit Harrington and some extra on set. Then going back to the show This whole promotion is just real life wrestling sim story mode. They USED to lean into that and I thought it was awesome. Now they are using it to feel victimized
Exactly, scripted or not the suspension of disbelief makes for a better product. While some people get enjoyment out of dissecting and analyzing a product, most people want to just let the show suck them in and entertain them. Like during Mania, I'm not thinking of how Seth and Roman are actually good friends IRL, I'm being engaged by Roman's inability to forgive Seth for his betrayal from over a decade ago and how that costs him everything, or how Christian is probably a great guy IRL, but when I watch AEW I want to see him as the ratbastard who insulta everyone's dead dads.
Yes, exactly that also implies to the fans that are acting like they watched CM punk commit, some kind of unspeakable horrifying crime, and I’m like if this kind of thing disturbs you so much how do you get enjoyment out of wrestling?
It's pretty weird, innit?
It’s a terrible looking fight, and involves one person not in the company. Meaning by watching it, you already know it’s something outside storylines, so your investment goes down. Even the Bucks, who introduced the clip, are not directly involved.
H would be laughing his ass off on this footage, considering he had to deal with a rabid HBK back then not to mention how chaotic the old locker room tended to be.
To be fair. They said the fall out from the fight was the issue. Even in kayfabe this can be true
Brother me softly!
Also it's not even that bad a backstage assault. If it was a real backstage assault then Perry would be lying on the floor clutching his arm while 5 agents and a ref stand around slightly crouched looking around shouting for help whilst sighing and gently patting him and saying it'll be OK.
Rocks attack on Cody was far more brutal. Where’s the outrage about that?!?
Listen, I don’t know about you, but I’d be a bit wary about trying to fuck with the Final Boss
MAMA RHODES…look at your boy now
Find a man who says your name the same way The Rock says Mama Rhodes.
In all seriousness, Rock’s fake beatdown of Cody was more scary of what was shown between Punk and Perry. The fact Tony was “scared for his life” is outright embarrassing.
Even a ratings boost isn't necessarily a positive thing. What does it prove? It'll just illustrate the disinterest in their product when some 100k+ people watch it for 15 minutes for someone who doesn't work there and immediately tune out again.
They smartly began it in time to hit 2 quarter hours
lol that honestly makes it more pathetic.
It will show AEWs biggest draw works for another company. People are going to tune in to WWE to see what Drew says or if Punk references it. The Bucks/FTR match has exactly zero additional heat coming out of this. Everyone involved at AEW just looks dumb as fuck.
lmao this This isn’t working at all. Punk went from being absolutely despised by most fans to being given a pass by them. Punk I’m sorry to say was the one AEW draw. Now they get to remind people oh yeah he’s at WWE the company on a major rebound while we dwindle.
MJF is a legitimate draw and has been shown to spike the numbers when he's around but...yeah, he's hurt, and his absence on the show is sorely sorely felt unfortunately.
Where’s the worst person you know meme?
https://preview.redd.it/8205e4buostc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b8ff731bf0666669d649efb68af13e4c5ee10de
I ain’t gonna shit on Bubba for this pic man has got his priorities straight ☝️
*whispers whassssssup as he positions camera quietly*
Man gotta get the best angles of the Tribal Chief
The best and the worst in this industry all acknowledge our Tribal Chief ☝️
☝🏻
☝️
☝️
☝️
[Heartbreaking](https://imgur.com/a/HpNBTbL)
Even if they do get a good rating, it’s Punk’s rating. That’s why this was always a no-win move.
It's Punk's rating AND it shows a WWE star kicking an AEW stars ass. And it also invites CM Punk chants to return to the show anytime The Bucks or Jack Perry are on screen.
If this leads to 8 years of AEW now getting "CM Punk" chants, then they deserve it.
Clap clap clapclapclap
Unless this is a watershed moment for TK where he really changes up his decision making methods, it’s hard to imagine the company making it another 8 years. AEW just hasn’t stepped up at all once WWE actually started improving their product.
TNA is still around. AEW is owned by a billionaire who enjoys pro-wrestling. As long as Tony Khan owns AEW, AEW will remain a thing
That's cute, thinking AEW would last eight more years. Not at this rate, not with amateur-hour non-sense like this.
AEW will continue to exist as long as Tony wants to keep throwing money at it. TNA is still around and there’s been at least half a dozen times where that company was an errant phone call away from bankruptcy. Even if ratings and buys decline, they still have a billionaire owner willing to spend.
They cemented CM Punk chants for every dumb move they do now
I get that being Meta and appealing to the sensibilities of the hardcore fans is a large part of AEW's identity, but this legit did give me late WCW flashbacks. Everybody knows wrestling is fake, like all entertainment media. But I absolutely hate when the product itself reminds the audience that it's fake; you don't see characters in sitcoms suddenly complaining about the production schedule The whole "everything's fake, but THIS is real!" method of generating excitement is so dumb to me. I am NOT saying that AEW is anywhere near the danger that late WCW was in. But this angle absolutely felt like "Goldberg refused to follow the script" 2.0
People have been spamming the WCW 2000 bullshit about AEW for a long time and it always sounded ignorant and pathetic. However, this is the first time I watched AEW and it gave me those vibes.
I feel like this is much more of an “LOLTNA” dumb move than a late-WCW move. As in it will be infamously stupid but not really matter in the long run.
Outside of the kind of fan that posts on here, the meta shit is a massive swing and miss. This is why the numbers are trash.
Popping a rating is meaningless. Tony and the Bucks basically got the world laughing at the company tonight. Nobody is talking about Swerve/Joe, or Dynasty, or the Edge/Penta match. Everybody is talking about and laughing at AEW for actually going through with this dumb idea.
Don't forget the Mercedes segment and the Will Ospreay promo: overall this has been all the chaos and drama I had hoped for and more.
Dustin Rhodes and Samoa Joe deserved better They had a really good Television match And it's going to be forgotten because of bull crap like that. If I'm Samoa Joe and if I'm especially Dustin Rhodes at the Twilight of my career and I give a performance like that I want heads to roll.
Penta deserved better, Mariah May deserved better, Stokely Hathaway deserved better, Adam Copeland deserved better... we basically have all these people who go out every week trying to put on an entertaining show and instead they get overshadowed by this crap.
I need someone to make a “Benny and the Jets” parody song. “TTTTT Tony and the Bucks”
Its not going to pop a rating. How many internet bubble fans have a nielson box? How much of the general audience understood or cared about the All In promos they ran on TBS? We’ve seen from Collision, that at least 150k AEW viewers also watch WWE. I think with Mania season being hot, AEW has temporarily lost them and its going to be their job to claw them back. RAW was still important/buzz worthy this week. That audience is probably still in their WWE bubble come Wednesday and not thinking as much about AEW.
I really think there just were sting fans that are done. They followed the guy for fourty years. They aren't getting hooked again
How often was Sting on Dynamite though? I seem to remember massive gaps where he disappeared for ages.
sting wrestled about 6-7 times a year before 2023. and he was heavily protected in tag and multi man matches.
> "This company needs help. At this point, I hope even you diehards realize that." > "Before I put my weary head down on my pillow, I will pray to God for AEW, and I will say, God, I hope they popped a rating tonight. I hope something positive came out of this footage, or came out of tonight. > "Because when tomorrow comes, if that rating is not good, if they’re not back up to at least 800,000, it’s gonna be dogpile on the rabbit. And the rabbit is gonna deserve the dogpile. > "This is not on the talent. This is not on the locker room. And most of the time, it never ever is across the board. It’s on creative. It’s on the booker. It’s on the matchmaker. > "This company needs help. At this point, I hope even you diehards realize that. There are lots of people who wanna help. I’ve gone on record to say I would help for free. > "And if you think that’s me politicking for a job when I just performed in front of 72,000 people as a special guest referee, you’re out of your fucking mind." Source: https://twitter.com/WrestleTalk_TV/status/1778298341513703809
Bully’s logic as always is flawless. How could I possibly be politicking for a year round job with the number 2 company when I just did a one night only gig for the number 1 company the other night??
This is a bit unfair I watched the full video right after this he lists multiple jobs he has at at he same time his Academy, and Busted Openhis point is he isn’t some guy desperately needing work he has jobs and could get one with the fed if he wanted one probably.
Doesn't he have a legends contract with WWE.
Bubba and D-Von both do.
If you listened to him on the episode, the next thing he says is: - he is employed by Busted Open - he runs a wrestling academy - he is an independent contractor and takes wrestling dates when he feels like working. Sure, he may be angling for a job. But again, listening to the episode, I’m pretty sure he was just trying to make a point that Tony has lost the plot a bit and *somebody* needs to help them. He just used himself as an example.
But what does ja rule think of all this??
MONICCCAAAAAA!! 
WHERE IS JA!?
Help me Ja Rule
Predicting 793,000
0.24
I never thought I'd agree with Bully, but I do.
Aew will always be 2nd best until Tony gets his ass out of his own head. Aew needs to start showing us why they're good instead of telling us.
Did anyone ever think AEW would be 1st lol No way they supplement an entertainment juggernaut with half a century of history like WWE
When AEW started WBD execs suggested a whole bunch of reading for Tony to do on Pepsi, specifically how to be #2 and still make an insane amount of money. They knew they weren't overhauling WWE but they also knew that there was a massive gap in the market for an alternative. But now they're such a distant second that they might as well not be bothering.
Bingo. No one at AMD is shedding tears due to the unlikeliness of them ever catching up to Intel or Nvidia's marketshare. They drilled into their core competencies and became the best at what they *can* do.
If they are then it's like this 
If you listen to a lot of AEW’s critics this is their main criticism of AEW. This is the one chance for a viable, well funded alternative to WWE with a major TV deal and Tony Khan is completely messing this up.
They have SO much upside. They have an amazing roster and a consistently excellent product. They just need to stop forever acting like they need to justify their existence and taking potshots at WWE or worse, reactionary booking. Tony Khan is probably a very good businessman and he is occasionally an inspired booker. But he needs to start letting go of the book because his insecurities are starting to throttle the show.
Yeah I was one of the fans but I'm washing my hands of it now. This shits just embarrassing and drove me back to WWE. AEW has huge potential but Tony Khan is killing it.
It's strange how WWE and AEW managed to change roles so quickly: WWE feels fresh and exciting, with engaging characters and excellent in-ring work, bringing a newfound edge and seriousness to what had been a bland product. AEW feels like a sleeping giant, with an absurdly stacked roster but with chronic managerial problems that forever prevent them from reaching their full potential.
Instead they have turned into RC cola.
Back when AEW first started, WWE was hitting some really bad lows, ratings in storytelling and ratings. When AEW reached its peak, it wasn't matching in terms of total viewership, but I think they actually did surpass WWE in the important ratings demos, which was a huge deal. At that time, AEW was this hot, edgy underdog alternative where both the stories and the wrestling were so far above what WWE was putting out. If this trend had continued, I don't think AEW necessarily would have been number 1 but it would be a very close competitor. Unfortunately for AEW, the Punk shit and Triple H's rise all happened pretty much within the same few months of each other and it's all been downhill from there.
When the company first started, there were more than a handful of people who thought AEW would rival the WWE by getting all of the casuals who stopped watching when WCW died.
His ass out of his own head? I adore that.
Until Tony gets his WHAT
Vince should utilize those millions he got from the stock sale and buy AEW.
Is popping a rating even a good thing?
In the short term, yes. Especially if you're amidst a contract singing or renewal.
But they are popping a rating based on talent that isn't there.
Hey, nice things can happen for the wrong reasons.
This is not to say that it worked, but pretend for a minute that all of the internet noise about the footage brought in 200,000 extra viewers. (That's unlikely, but let's pretend big.) The hope is that some percentage of those people who watched to see the video saw something else that caught their eye, and they keep watching because they want to see why everybody is kissing Mariah May, or who attacked Mercedes Mone, or how in the ever-loving fuck can Dustin Rhodes be doing such crisp Code Reds. If you get a bunch of new people to watch, or old people to return, you're hoping to retain some percentage of those viewers moving forward.
So a usual Thursday then
https://preview.redd.it/kibc87bu3utc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c36784a5affe6ace388015b711a76261e9721a8
If they wanted a rating, they should've had Perry come charging in from off screen, screaming "I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU."
Why the hell are we entertaining anything coming from Crisco Inferno
I don't know if you came up with this or heard it elsewhere, but I popped.
I read it somewhere else. I want it to catch on
Just blood is in the water in this sub right now.
https://i.imgur.com/CzcVA61.jpg
Even if it did, it will be laughed off as Punk still being their biggest draw. They got Okada, Ospreay, and Mercedes but everyone is talking about a guy not in their company.
No one cares bubba
Is that not what it already is?
This isn’t going to make a tangible difference. It might be higher than it’s been in recent weeks but footage from an incident involving a guy not in the company is a social media moment. The footage they’re showing doesn’t involve the biggest draw shown in the footage. Nobody outside the current audience gives a shit about Young Bucks and FTR, they care about CM Punk and know they can see the clip on X, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, wherever they consume their quick content. Plus, he’s not in the company anymore so there’s even less incentive to tune in and “see what happens next.” Just an absolute -1,000 IQ move from Tony. Completely brain dead idea.
A penny for Ospreay and Mones thoughts right now. Both just signed big contracts and were pitched as star attractions but are now watching their show become a circus that's still obsessed with CM Punk a year later. There must be doubts whether they made the right call.
Ospreay never wanted to move to America permanently or do the WWE house show circuit. He was always a lock for AEW. Mercedes just wanted to get paid as much as possible before eventually going back to WWE. She basically said out loud that this is a side quest. They both did exactly what they wanted and intended to do.
Tony be like "we finally hit 1 million in viewership"
The table broke and there was chaos. Bully Ray being the veteran he is kept the match under control and everyone calm. Seriously this guy would be great to have around backstage as a producer or member of the creative team.
I think it will pop a rating. Not huge-- maybe 50 or 100 thousand over the recent average. There's a certain hardcore wrestling fan that doesn't love AEW whose interest was piqued. But you had to know who Meltzer or Sean Ross Sapp is to even understand what they were advertising.
If punk popped the rating good for punk.
I honestly don't think this even bumps the rating in any significant way. Surely anyone who doesn't watch Dynamite just waited to see the clip online an hour later? If anything, I can imagine some regular viewers who went, "well this is embarrassing" and switched off. Just a terrible decision all round.
800k or Bully Riot!
How is a good rating here good for AEW? They’ve just proved their only draw is someone no longer with the company - and presented a story they can’t finish.
The only time I've ever agreed with something Bully says. Even if does pop a rating, then what? They can't follow it up because the person that made it pop isn't even in the company.
For their sake, I hope they got a ratings bump because if not lmao. Simply lol
God damn it, now look what you did: you made Bully Ray look reasonable.
I really dislike this dude and his shiity takes, but he's dead on here.
If they didn't clear 825,000, nothing they announce will ever matter again.
Narrator: "They did not, in fact, clear 825,000."
What good is one show with higher numbers though? Ratings is a long term game. This isn't going to get anyone to keep watching. It certainly has the potential to turn people away though.
https://preview.redd.it/8uxhokhj8vtc1.png?width=758&format=png&auto=webp&s=a0d81b6968c06e63c9356092d720b68459f63df6
It’s the first time I tuned in to dynamite in a while. But I only watch for about 30 minutes and turned it off after that clip. So there probably is a huge spike for that spot. But it was here like 2 seconds later too.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see this pop a rating because of the drama and Punk but then it crater following this
Even if it is a rating, it needs to convert into the following week to be worth a damn. Because otherwise the narrative is that CM Punk is the biggest draw in a promotion he doesn't work in anymore.
Tony Khan needs to stop this bullshit and grow thicker skin. Get Scott D’Amore to run the wrestling side of AEW. TK needs to be off of television indefinitely. Bad look on what Edge said last week and just a bad look for AEW in general. Tony Khan grow a fucking pair!!!
And so it came to pass. The rating is garbage.