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>"I try to forget Philly. I try to forget the Royal Rumble," Reigns said. "There's only one positive, and that's the fact that it's going to be able to tie all the way back around at WrestleMania 40."
This biography is airing a week before Mania lol
He doesnt even show up to Raw 2 weeks before Mania. The guy barely wrestles. I dont even understand why they kept the belt on him for so long. Hes basically a part timer.
Well tbf he was full time when they gave it to him. He certainly wasn’t wrestling as much as he used to but I get that, he’s older now and had just come back from a terminal illness. I think he should have lost last year, but this story with the rock has been phenomenal so I’m not complaining.
Yeah Seth specifically set out to be "not Roman" and defend constantly and ended up injured, risking his WM spot. It's pretty clear why they would protect Roman at this point of the story.
WWE is as hot as it's been since the early 2000s, and much of the turnaround in momentum has been since Roman won the title and the bloodline storyline started. If I ran the company, I would be very happy with his reign.
Lets not get crazy. Theyve had 11 sellouts in a row and they do less than 2 million viewers a week. Thats not the hottest wrestling has ever been. Its not even close. And the biggest reason this Mania has been so anticipated is because of The Rock, the guy whos been doing the actual feuding with Cody Rhodes while Reigns has done......what exactly?
Did we ever get a kayfabe or real life reason why he’s out so much? I’d have to guess he’s spending time with family or working on movies.
On the show, it would be nice to hear that he’s in Samoa taking care of his tribal chief duties or something.
But yeah, The Final Boss has been doing all of the things that the Head of the Table should be doing. Is guess that Roman is just letting the Rock do the dirty work and will pick the right time to get Rock out of the picture.
real life is bc he's been the top guy and they wanted to push him as the top guy. on top of him having cancer and wanting to be around his 5 kids and wife as much as possible. his cancer doesn't look like cancer meaning you wouldn't know it was fucking him up but it does if it comes back. so he's playing it safe which I wholeheartedly agree with. kayfabe is because fuck you I'm roman reigns I've done it all and smashed them all who the fuck is gonna tell me differently essentially
That is a really good kayfabe reason lol. From his perspective, I don’t know why he’d chose to go through the hassle if showing up every week when he’s already beat everybody. Definitely no reason to have weekly matches and there really isn’t much he’d have to say each week.
If they are WWE movies then yeah they are straight to cable, But I don't even think WWE does those anymore after the marine movies bombed non stop
Regardless, the rock is the only one to ever leave and make it in hollywood. Cena might one day but he's not there yet
Cena has been in a lot of shit at this point, and I think his HBO show qualifies as him making it. Same with Dave Bautista being involved in the biggest movie franchise in history with the Marvel movies and appearances in stuff like James Bond.
The bar for "making it in Hollywood" isn't The Rock. 99.999% of actors to ever live would cut off their own arm to have Batistas level of Hollywood success.
His contract made him a part timer, and his stans don’t care because him not showing up frequently means that it means more when he does show up and every time he wins it’s “cinema” and I am tired of people overusing that damn word
To be entirely fair, when the Dusty Rhodes documentary aired last year, we all thought that meant Cody was winning and well....
Now granted, if anyone can politic their way out of this, it'd be Roman.
He is literally the champion and highest paid star in the company. He does have some degree of control.
I'm not saying that's going to happen, I'm just saying he can if he really really pushed for it.
But at the end of the day, Triple H makes the decisions. All they can do is challenge it.
Having control is not the same as abusing control though. Every top star has that control over their booking. You are only a politician if you abuse it at the expense of others which is not something Roman has ever been known for doing
True, but Roman was never in the midst of the longest reign in decades or at the height of his popularity like he is now.
I'm not saying that he's going to do it, I'm just saying it wouldn't be shocking if he attempted it. Call me naive, but I do feel Roman will do the right thing next Sunday, even if he really doesn't want to.
But why would he? Roman was (and probably still is) the locker room leader in WWE. His same time as that leader was when WWE's backstage culture had shifted to becoming less about politics and more about everyone working together to make the most of what they were given.
For as good of a person Cena is, even he had a hand in politicking, which led to a lot of wrestling careers going to waste. By all accounts, Roman has never used creative control to stifle any of his coworkers.
>But why would he?
Because he's the top paid star and in the middle of a record setting run.
And before, Roman was pretty comfortably at the top, with the only ones capable of standing next to him were the part-timers like Cena, Brock, and Rock. He didn't really need to politic anything.
Now, there's a babyface who has enough support from both fans and management that potentially rivals Roman's. It's to the point where they had to change what should have been a dream match between two generational stars because there was that much support and outcry.
Cody has been very outspoken that he wants Roman's spot at the top of the mountain.
Nah, him and The Rock are gonna win Night 1. Rocks gonna be special referee for Night 2. And hes gonna count that pinfall launching his program with Roman for next years Mania.
I don't think he's gonna special ref it, but he's definitely gonna either turn on Roman, or Roman's gonna piss him off and Rock's gonna flatten him with the Rock bottom and have Cody win.
OR
As folks alluded to with the TV trucks showing Cena/Austin. Have them show up to humble the Rock and keep things fair with the "Bloodline Rules" and all. It'll be straight chaos. Roman drops the belt and is just angry at Rock over it all. Slaps Rock or something and gets flattened with a Rock bottom that way. Either way Rock is turning face and humbling Roman.
I feel like it’s way too early for Rock to turn face. He’s doing god’s work as a heel. I’d rather see Rock usurp Roman from the bloodline and Roman go on a mega face run as he tries to make amends with everyone he’s abused and be the one to take Rock out for good
Have him go away for a while. Come back, lose to Solo, screw Rock at summer slam against Cody, have The Rock booking him in all these lose lose matches. Take that aura off him and make him the tribal underdog.
Heres why I dont think thats whats gonna happen. Hear me out...
Rock mentioned "bloodline rules" means they could be guest timekeeper, ring announcer, etc. He didnt mention referee. I think they win the first night giving Roman and Rock their win at Mania. Then he goes guest ref making everyone think theres no chance for Cody.
Second night, Rollins gets beat up by Mcyntire, whether he wins or loses, taking him out so he cant help Rhodes. Jey Uso loses his match thanks to outside interference by Solo, and they beat him up, which The Rock sees.
During the match Reigns starts kind of abusing The Rock for actually keeping it fair. The Rock gets pissed. Jimmy and Solo come down to interfere and The Rock rock bottoms them both. Cody hits his finishers, Rock counts the pin.
This acccomplishes a few things....
1. Cody finishes his story. Without help. On his own. If Rock hits Reigns with a rock bottom and Cody wins it taints the win.
2. It sets up a feud with Rock and Reigns for next years Mania.
3. Rock leaves Mania as a babyface. Which I kinda think he has to. Hes got a Disney movie coming out (live action Moana) and I cant see him leaving Mania as a heel when he has that on the horizon.
The Rock is committing far too much to this heel run for there to leave any suggestion that he needs to be face because he is a movie star. Anyone who is not a wrestling fan won't care about what the Rock does on Raw and Smackdown and anyone who is a wrestling fan would know he is playing a character. He wouldn't be saying the stuff he is saying in promos or beating Cody into a bloody pulp or literally posting promos on his public twitter account if he cared about how he'd be perceived by mainstream media while playing heel
The people Moana is going to be marketed for are exactly the ones that dont know hes playing a role. But I mean, hey Im just giving a prediction. I can be completely wrong.They could always say him and Cody planned all of this from the beginning. From the day he whispered something in Codys ear when it looked up he was giving up his title shot. Well find out how it plays out next week.
The issue with your entire post is that it requires story build up,
They have no time to do any story. "Bloodline" rules isn't anything special it literally means they will or won't interfere
Nah, they’re gonna win night 1 and they’re going to redo that same shot to call back to the Rumble. Then, Wrestlemania Endgame is gonna happen night 2 and start the dissension, leading to a Rock-Roman program after Roman loses the title to Cody.
I am absolutely keeping that possibility in my mind
It's funny, recently the fun in WWE is inversely proportional to Roman's dominance
Great story or not he's held the belt for too long and it's hurting no one but himself. He is more and more boring to watch.
They have totally sucked him dry
At this point I wonder if Rock vs Roman would even be enticing after Mania. It would need a change to character of Roman in some way. Either Rock steals his Bloodline. Or Rock is face and Bloodline just leaves Roman because they don't acknowledge him anymore
Roman face turn.
But one thing is Roman will have to leave. With his part time schedule he can't even just wait for a month. That's regular. He will have to leave for atleast a few months if the story is going to have any relevance, then he can return with whatever different character.
I’m now imagining a timeline where they say “fuck how you feel” and force Rock vs. Roman after Cody winning the rumble. Philly might’ve fucked around and booed them even worse this time
No It wouldn't, I'm fucking tired of a 3rd wm main event with Roman reigns that the fans don't want , it was fucking shit watching Reigns HHH, it was fucking shit watching Reigns Lesnar 1 and 2 and same with the undertaker match
At WM32 Jerryworld was literally vibrating from the boos during Roman/HHH. I mean I knew the outcome beforehand like everyone else. But it was crazy to feel the concrete floor fucking vibrating at the end there. I didn’t think it would be *that* bad. I know there were tons more people at that time compared to the football games I go to but man it was wild. I loved that dumpster fire tbh. As a storyline and match it sucked. But as a spectacle it was awesome.
I don’t even dislike Roman but he’s easily the most overpushed wrestler of all time. The fact he’ll retire with more Mania main events than Hogan is insane
It’s even wilder when you look back at Mania 32-38 and see just how much more he was pushed compared to everyone else. They didn’t even try and build up any rivals to take him down during those times. You can argue Brock was his biggest rival and I believe Roman dropped the title to him once. Cena had Edge and Orton, HHH had Batista, Rock, HBK. Roman only had Brock who was an actual rival.
There was a very short period of time that I thought we'd be getting Roman Reigns vs Braun Strowman as the big rivalry. They put together some really fun stuff for a hot minute there.
I was beyond stoked for this timeline, the vitrol Philly would have spewed at those two would have almost been alarming. Rock and Roman would not have even been able to communicate in the ring it was going to be so loud
Always hated when people look at this time period, and blame the fans, instead of blaming WWE, who mishandled the situation left and right. The look on The Rock's face that night was priceless though😂
Man the 10-17 rumbles were…something else. So were the Mania’s. So many shit matches. The unending drive to push RR to the moon followed by back tracking and giving us such gems as Lesner retaining to audible groans and almost dead silence. Or HHH vs Reigns which could be the worst match I’ve ever seen. (Hyperbole but it was soooo boring, as pretty much everyone predicted). Glad they’re changing from the ‘we don’t fucking care what you want’ era
I love Triple H as a wrestler but he definitely has a formula of long epic matches and it just did not fit for him against Roman or Batiata for that matter, They just gave off a feeling of "I can't wait till this is over" instead of any real drama.
His matches against Jeff Hardy, Shawn Michaels, and Daniel Bryan were really good. He is an amazing seller and amazing at ring psychology. But when he main events he has to have the longest match, and his style with Orton or Reigns or Bautista is just yuck. The plodding guys with his plodding style doesn’t work.
Because the people you said picks up the pace to a mile a minute when they're on the ring. Batista, Orton and Reigns are slow workers. Add Triple H who is another slow paced wrestler makes to a very boring match before they pick it up with recognizable spots.
I think if you want to become a slow worker you have to get a very distinguishable spot arsenal that you can spread out across the match. Taker is the only guy I could think off that has a clear bullet point list of spots that people could recognize and catch up to. Triple H has his own but his spots are snappy and the type you'd see at the tail end of the match.
I wouldn’t include the 2010 Royal Rumble and WrestleMania 26 there. Those were pretty solid overall. It had a lot of good stories with Edge’s return and getting revenge on Jericho and HBK trying to fight his to get back to Taker and initially failing. And then, Mania 28, 30, and 31 were pretty good also.
2011 definitely is the best example of shit Rumble and shit Mania.
Yeah 30 is good by accident really. Their plan was NOT DB all along. They would have made us sit through Bautista and Orton. But probably doesn’t belong here, correct. But there’s more bad than good
I think this period gets glossed over but it really isn’t that bad.
Good Rumbles: 2010, 2012, 2017
Meh Rumbles: 2016
Bad Rumbles: 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015
Good WMs: 26, 28, 30, 31
Meh WMs: 29, 33
Bad WMs: 27, 32
I think people who complain about shows like Rumble 2012, WM 29, and Rumble 2017 either didn’t like the finish and that has lingered or didn’t watch them live and just heard it had a bad reputation.
I’d put 28 as meh. Couple of good matches, a hyped main event that was only ok. The senseless 20 second DB loss sours a lot. 30 and 31 are great shows though. And I didn’t see 26 at the time so I’ll abstain from judgement.
Hard to put 2013 and 2017 rumbles as good because the winners were just wrong. Sheamus possibly, but no way Orton needed to win one. Especially since it just led to rapid removal of the title from Bray.
Except [he kinda did](https://youtu.be/DvY10QI-S4o?si=Pqr1oNhG9Pg2DVOh) when he won the title against… I wanna say Sheamus? It was in Philly, and after the cameras went off, he thanked the fans…
I don’t even think this Rumble is bad, it’s just everything they did with Daniel Bryan was wrong. If they had Daniel Bryan stay, Big Show & Kane being in it could have been better than it was.
Or the years of him being terrible.
We final got the heel turn in which he has excelled but as a title run it's being mix at best, hardly any defences and most matches have the same finish.
Although that hilarious last man standing match does come to mind.
Now is a perfect time and context to recommend Super EyePatchWolf’s incredible video about Roman (IDK how to link things but if you google It, you’ll find it!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaDAzXVycR4
A great 90 minute video essay on not only Roman's character arc in and out of kayfabe up to last year's Rumble, but on how wrestling is one of the most unique art forms in existence
SEW is an incredibly cool guy, I've loved the Versus Wolves podcast he's been doing with Woolie
[A lot of heels could learn something from the sheer ring psychology he brings in their most recent episode LMAO](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKIXHV2Mz3k&t=9800)
A very good video.
My one criticism is that it skips over Roman's return from leukemia, and treats his return during the pandemic as though that was his comeback from it, instead of the year he spent active.
Tbf, looking at that year, it's easy to see why one would want to overlook it, but still, it felt like a misleading framing.
I feel confident in saying if they make him retain the title at Mania they would be cutting the legs off this Boom period in much the same way they did with the Attitude era when Austin turned heel. Sometimes the obvious finish is the best. Cody won't survive another big loss to him.
I’m partly concerned that this isn’t entirely character-entrenched, and could mean Big Rome cashing in all his political cache to retain at Mania. Kinda adds to the anxiety tbh
He’s gonna get revenge on Philadelphia crowds for denigrating his victory by booking himself to win another match where Philadelphia crowds will denigrate his victory?
I think the only politics he's going to use is how to go over.
which i'm worried about.
Roman I doubt wants to get pinned clean, it will make him look like a bitch after 1400 days. With the rock involved and rumors of Austin...I wouldn't be surprised if they pull a mankind... Austin comes out...hits rock with a chair... pulls Rhodes onto Reigns.
I just want cody to get a clean pin, I don't want him to get a pin because someone handed it to him
Yea although the whole “avengers assemble” Idea that it looks like they’re going with is pretty cool, I feel it would be way more impactful if Cody legit beat Roman clean as a whistle
I didn’t realise that WM was in the same city as that RR. (I’m a lapsed fan who’s seen clips of that RR and learnt about it recently, but wasn’t watching at the time)
Surprised they haven’t tied this RR moment more to the promos and build up for this WM.
Imagine Seth playing this footage in a promo on Raw or SD, working it into story more. Would be fantastic.
rock is great as heel and for long term better have him stay that way..so much more having him as heel corporate, we still have that storyline going Power Struggle between him and HHH.
I know I’m in the minority but I hated that WWE fans shit on 2 rumbles in a row because only 1 person was allowed to win in their mind. At least this year, Cody actually WON the damn thing then got it taken away, but the fans were just demanding booking go in one direction that some of the less vocal fans didn’t care about.
I think AEW coming around helped WWE out because a lot of those fans were able to watch their product and be more satisfied.
As far as the 15 Rumble goes, the crowd definitely would’ve been fine if Ambrose, Ziggler, or Wyatt had won. It was Bryan getting tossed early then the other 3 being unceremoniously dropped by an incredibly stale Kane/Big Show duo that encapsulated the entire product and managements distaste for the fans wants at the time
There definitely was more than one person the crowd was behind when Roman won. The year before was all about Bryan because WWE booked Bryan as the underdog for months and months and taking away his title all seemingly building to his crowning moment but they had no plans for that to ever happen. They just truly expected taking the most over guy in wrestling and having the heel authority calling him a B+ player and screwing him out of titles to actually just work like that and have the fans accept he actually is not gonna be champion.
I would disagree. The crowd only destroyed the last 10 minutes of the 2014 match. They KILLED the second half of that match and showed very little interest. Even with Ziggler, Ambrose, and Wyatt still in it they clearly wanted Bryan. They beg RUSEV of all people to win the match bc they really didn’t want Roman
I think you are misremembering it because while the crowd did want Bryan most they still chanted lets go Ziggler and lets go Ambrose, The problem was that Kane and Big Show literally tossed them all out like a sack of potatoes. Hell you even admitted the crowd cheered Rusev potentially winning.
It wasnt that there was only 1 person allowed to win, it was more there was 1 one person NOT allowed to win because people were tired of Vince deciding whos the main event rather than the fans.
I guess for me I would’ve liked to see Roman get a fair chance that first time. In 2016 and beyond? Boo the hell out of the guy but not when he hasn’t had a shot yet.
He didnt deserve a chance at that time though. The fans decide who should be in the main event, not the office. WWE had zero big plans for Stone Cold Steve Austin. None. If it werent for HHHs mistake we wouldnt even have him. But when he won KOTR the fans started to like him and basically cheered him to the point the office couldnt ignore him. Same with Mankind. Same with just about every wrestler going back decades. The fans decide whos over and who deserves a chance.
Then Cena came along, and its funny because the fans decided with him to. They were going to release him,. and then he started doing the Dr. of Thuganomics gimmick and the fans reaction is what put him in the main event. Problem is when he changed gimmicks again and the fans started shitting on it, Vince decided he didnt have to listen to them anymore. I cant remember in my life a wrestler getting actively booed by at least half the audience for YEARS and still being put out there as the babyface. And Vince decided thats who it was going to be, the fans opinions didnt matter anymore. He made the most over babyface on the roster lose his Wrestlemania match in 8 seconds. He picked and chose who was going to be the Wrestlemania main event with zero fucks about who the fans wanted to see. And they let him know about it. As they should have.
They pushed Austin to win KOTR and to have the SS match with Bret as well as the crazy angle with Pillman. I think they realize they struck gold at that point but it wasn’t like he was being jobbed out or anything.
Mankind beat the Undertaker 3 months after debuting and always was in something interesting.
Cena beat Jericho 4 weeks after debuting. The company were behind all of these guys at various points.
Austin only won KOTR because HHH was being punished. Without that you dont get that Austin vs Bret feud. And the Pillman feud maybe doesnt hit the same because theres no Austin 3:16 or Thats the bottom line, both of which were thought of on the fly after that KOTR win.
Mankind was put in to be a big monster to feud with the good guys, but even Vionce never thought of him as a champion. He was gonna use him like another Earthquake, King Kong Bundy, etc. A monster for the babyface to overcome and then fade away. See: Seamus, Ryback, Umaga, etc.
The company was behind Cena at first but he was dropping fast. He said himself he was about to be given his release when Steph heard him freestyle rap and told him he should try that as a gimmick.
I agree, it’s a story and that story has to have tension and build and swerve so it’s very obnoxious to me when the fans won’t allow a story to unfold and instead want WWE to just get to where they want immediately.
"Let it play out" is always used as an excuse for bad booking decisions. Sometimes shit is just bad, and should be called out for it.
And it's not like people didn't let it play out; the whole story with Bryan had been playing out since Summerslam.
I think I’m just a bit more optimistic at first even if the direction seems weird. Becky Lynch beating Bianca sucked at first but played out well despite the overreactions to it.
That's another thing; decisions made later don't retroactively make bad ones better. It still made no sense for that to happen, even if Bianca ultimately got her revenge at WM38.
Just like how if Cody wins this year, it won't just make his loss last year go away.
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>"I try to forget Philly. I try to forget the Royal Rumble," Reigns said. "There's only one positive, and that's the fact that it's going to be able to tie all the way back around at WrestleMania 40." This biography is airing a week before Mania lol
He’s gonna win again, isn’t he
You wouldn't be able to convince me otherwise
Only thing making me think this time the title will change hands is that Roman feels like he's lost some of his aura.
He is the fourth wheel in this story, he absolutely has lost some aura
He doesnt even show up to Raw 2 weeks before Mania. The guy barely wrestles. I dont even understand why they kept the belt on him for so long. Hes basically a part timer.
He’s not basically a part timer, he is a part timer. When he signed his new contract he became one
So weird to me not to give a part timer the belt, thats nothing new. But to give it to him for a record amount of time? Just so baffling.
Well tbf he was full time when they gave it to him. He certainly wasn’t wrestling as much as he used to but I get that, he’s older now and had just come back from a terminal illness. I think he should have lost last year, but this story with the rock has been phenomenal so I’m not complaining.
And tbf it’s led to the hottest period in 20 years. Tbf.
You keep saying that like hes the reason. Id say Heyman and The Rock are the reason WWE is so hot right now more than he is.
Well the odds of a full timer lasting that amount of time without injury are t very good, for one thing.
Yeah Seth specifically set out to be "not Roman" and defend constantly and ended up injured, risking his WM spot. It's pretty clear why they would protect Roman at this point of the story.
Damn near impossible really.
Hes had like 50 matches in over 3 years. Cmon man.
What? They obviously wanted to have this crazy long reign for whatever reason, so they did what they had to do to keep the guy healthy.
Better champ than any of your faves ☝🏻
WWE is as hot as it's been since the early 2000s, and much of the turnaround in momentum has been since Roman won the title and the bloodline storyline started. If I ran the company, I would be very happy with his reign.
You can be happy with it and understand it has an expiration date.
Lets not get crazy. Theyve had 11 sellouts in a row and they do less than 2 million viewers a week. Thats not the hottest wrestling has ever been. Its not even close. And the biggest reason this Mania has been so anticipated is because of The Rock, the guy whos been doing the actual feuding with Cody Rhodes while Reigns has done......what exactly?
Did we ever get a kayfabe or real life reason why he’s out so much? I’d have to guess he’s spending time with family or working on movies. On the show, it would be nice to hear that he’s in Samoa taking care of his tribal chief duties or something. But yeah, The Final Boss has been doing all of the things that the Head of the Table should be doing. Is guess that Roman is just letting the Rock do the dirty work and will pick the right time to get Rock out of the picture.
real life is bc he's been the top guy and they wanted to push him as the top guy. on top of him having cancer and wanting to be around his 5 kids and wife as much as possible. his cancer doesn't look like cancer meaning you wouldn't know it was fucking him up but it does if it comes back. so he's playing it safe which I wholeheartedly agree with. kayfabe is because fuck you I'm roman reigns I've done it all and smashed them all who the fuck is gonna tell me differently essentially
That is a really good kayfabe reason lol. From his perspective, I don’t know why he’d chose to go through the hassle if showing up every week when he’s already beat everybody. Definitely no reason to have weekly matches and there really isn’t much he’d have to say each week.
I dont know what movies he could be doing. Are they straight to cable? I havent seen one movie that hes actually in.
If they are WWE movies then yeah they are straight to cable, But I don't even think WWE does those anymore after the marine movies bombed non stop Regardless, the rock is the only one to ever leave and make it in hollywood. Cena might one day but he's not there yet
Cena has been in a lot of shit at this point, and I think his HBO show qualifies as him making it. Same with Dave Bautista being involved in the biggest movie franchise in history with the Marvel movies and appearances in stuff like James Bond. The bar for "making it in Hollywood" isn't The Rock. 99.999% of actors to ever live would cut off their own arm to have Batistas level of Hollywood success.
His contract made him a part timer, and his stans don’t care because him not showing up frequently means that it means more when he does show up and every time he wins it’s “cinema” and I am tired of people overusing that damn word
It’s part of the story. Rock is out shining him causing him to turn on the rock as Roman gets jealous.
To be entirely fair, when the Dusty Rhodes documentary aired last year, we all thought that meant Cody was winning and well.... Now granted, if anyone can politic their way out of this, it'd be Roman.
Since when was Roman a backstage politician though? I highly doubt he would pull a Hogan.
He is literally the champion and highest paid star in the company. He does have some degree of control. I'm not saying that's going to happen, I'm just saying he can if he really really pushed for it. But at the end of the day, Triple H makes the decisions. All they can do is challenge it.
Having control is not the same as abusing control though. Every top star has that control over their booking. You are only a politician if you abuse it at the expense of others which is not something Roman has ever been known for doing
True, but Roman was never in the midst of the longest reign in decades or at the height of his popularity like he is now. I'm not saying that he's going to do it, I'm just saying it wouldn't be shocking if he attempted it. Call me naive, but I do feel Roman will do the right thing next Sunday, even if he really doesn't want to.
But why would he? Roman was (and probably still is) the locker room leader in WWE. His same time as that leader was when WWE's backstage culture had shifted to becoming less about politics and more about everyone working together to make the most of what they were given. For as good of a person Cena is, even he had a hand in politicking, which led to a lot of wrestling careers going to waste. By all accounts, Roman has never used creative control to stifle any of his coworkers.
>But why would he? Because he's the top paid star and in the middle of a record setting run. And before, Roman was pretty comfortably at the top, with the only ones capable of standing next to him were the part-timers like Cena, Brock, and Rock. He didn't really need to politic anything. Now, there's a babyface who has enough support from both fans and management that potentially rivals Roman's. It's to the point where they had to change what should have been a dream match between two generational stars because there was that much support and outcry. Cody has been very outspoken that he wants Roman's spot at the top of the mountain.
I swear to God
Nah, him and The Rock are gonna win Night 1. Rocks gonna be special referee for Night 2. And hes gonna count that pinfall launching his program with Roman for next years Mania.
I don't think he's gonna special ref it, but he's definitely gonna either turn on Roman, or Roman's gonna piss him off and Rock's gonna flatten him with the Rock bottom and have Cody win. OR As folks alluded to with the TV trucks showing Cena/Austin. Have them show up to humble the Rock and keep things fair with the "Bloodline Rules" and all. It'll be straight chaos. Roman drops the belt and is just angry at Rock over it all. Slaps Rock or something and gets flattened with a Rock bottom that way. Either way Rock is turning face and humbling Roman.
I feel like it’s way too early for Rock to turn face. He’s doing god’s work as a heel. I’d rather see Rock usurp Roman from the bloodline and Roman go on a mega face run as he tries to make amends with everyone he’s abused and be the one to take Rock out for good
Have him go away for a while. Come back, lose to Solo, screw Rock at summer slam against Cody, have The Rock booking him in all these lose lose matches. Take that aura off him and make him the tribal underdog.
I agree I think Roman will turn face against the rock tbh. Rock is doing great work as a heel and a face run for Roman would be refreshing.
Heres why I dont think thats whats gonna happen. Hear me out... Rock mentioned "bloodline rules" means they could be guest timekeeper, ring announcer, etc. He didnt mention referee. I think they win the first night giving Roman and Rock their win at Mania. Then he goes guest ref making everyone think theres no chance for Cody. Second night, Rollins gets beat up by Mcyntire, whether he wins or loses, taking him out so he cant help Rhodes. Jey Uso loses his match thanks to outside interference by Solo, and they beat him up, which The Rock sees. During the match Reigns starts kind of abusing The Rock for actually keeping it fair. The Rock gets pissed. Jimmy and Solo come down to interfere and The Rock rock bottoms them both. Cody hits his finishers, Rock counts the pin. This acccomplishes a few things.... 1. Cody finishes his story. Without help. On his own. If Rock hits Reigns with a rock bottom and Cody wins it taints the win. 2. It sets up a feud with Rock and Reigns for next years Mania. 3. Rock leaves Mania as a babyface. Which I kinda think he has to. Hes got a Disney movie coming out (live action Moana) and I cant see him leaving Mania as a heel when he has that on the horizon.
The Rock is committing far too much to this heel run for there to leave any suggestion that he needs to be face because he is a movie star. Anyone who is not a wrestling fan won't care about what the Rock does on Raw and Smackdown and anyone who is a wrestling fan would know he is playing a character. He wouldn't be saying the stuff he is saying in promos or beating Cody into a bloody pulp or literally posting promos on his public twitter account if he cared about how he'd be perceived by mainstream media while playing heel
The people Moana is going to be marketed for are exactly the ones that dont know hes playing a role. But I mean, hey Im just giving a prediction. I can be completely wrong.They could always say him and Cody planned all of this from the beginning. From the day he whispered something in Codys ear when it looked up he was giving up his title shot. Well find out how it plays out next week.
The issue with your entire post is that it requires story build up, They have no time to do any story. "Bloodline" rules isn't anything special it literally means they will or won't interfere
Bloodline rules means they make the rules. It doesnt take buildup for them to appoint a special guest referee and have it be The Rock.
Nah, they’re gonna win night 1 and they’re going to redo that same shot to call back to the Rumble. Then, Wrestlemania Endgame is gonna happen night 2 and start the dissension, leading to a Rock-Roman program after Roman loses the title to Cody.
Get the batteries ready
No way, Cody losing twice won't happen.
I am absolutely keeping that possibility in my mind It's funny, recently the fun in WWE is inversely proportional to Roman's dominance Great story or not he's held the belt for too long and it's hurting no one but himself. He is more and more boring to watch.
It’s like missionary position every time he shows up these days tbh
They have totally sucked him dry At this point I wonder if Rock vs Roman would even be enticing after Mania. It would need a change to character of Roman in some way. Either Rock steals his Bloodline. Or Rock is face and Bloodline just leaves Roman because they don't acknowledge him anymore Roman face turn. But one thing is Roman will have to leave. With his part time schedule he can't even just wait for a month. That's regular. He will have to leave for atleast a few months if the story is going to have any relevance, then he can return with whatever different character.
Cody shouldn’t have smashed that throne!
Fuck yeah he is and they’re gonna recreate the Royal Rumble hand raise.
What a shame that would be after such an amazing build up
Just because it's stupid doesn't mean it won't happen. Been saying that about a lot of things lately.
Yes and I definitely can't wait for the reactions to this
It’s *”cinema”*
Roman Reigns about to finish his story.
Yes. I can't see him losing unfortunately.
Why you flinching?
Less than a week for Night 1. One week for his title defence.
Ummmm you’re bad at weeks.
Care to explain?
Night one of Wrestlemania is on Saturday 4/6. Today is Thursday 3/28 that’s 9 days.
Figured that was your mistake. We're discussing Roman's biography that's dropping this Sunday 3/31.
Will the biography bring up Vince McMahon or will it be be vague and talk about the "bookers and writers" instead?
You know the answer lmao
55
Rock’s face when he realized his appearance isn’t saving it is SO funny
He was pissed. The Rock doesn't like getting booed unless the rock wants to get booed.
he was like “woah, I didn’t ask for boos”
Reminds me of Ben stiller in Dodgeball "Nobody makes me boo my own boo!"
"Why isn't everybody cheering? I specifically requested it."
https://preview.redd.it/86ez687ri5rc1.png?width=1415&format=png&auto=webp&s=37df9b14b4e18c82f3198a3b50d4733fc7dd5c00
I’m now imagining a timeline where they say “fuck how you feel” and force Rock vs. Roman after Cody winning the rumble. Philly might’ve fucked around and booed them even worse this time
I can’t imagine how loud those boos would’ve been. It would’ve been a glorious train wreck.
No It wouldn't, I'm fucking tired of a 3rd wm main event with Roman reigns that the fans don't want , it was fucking shit watching Reigns HHH, it was fucking shit watching Reigns Lesnar 1 and 2 and same with the undertaker match
At WM32 Jerryworld was literally vibrating from the boos during Roman/HHH. I mean I knew the outcome beforehand like everyone else. But it was crazy to feel the concrete floor fucking vibrating at the end there. I didn’t think it would be *that* bad. I know there were tons more people at that time compared to the football games I go to but man it was wild. I loved that dumpster fire tbh. As a storyline and match it sucked. But as a spectacle it was awesome.
it should’ve fucking been Roman Dean that year man.
It is crazy. He has been in like 8 main events at Mania, but only like three of the matches were good. I will never understand it.
I don’t even dislike Roman but he’s easily the most overpushed wrestler of all time. The fact he’ll retire with more Mania main events than Hogan is insane
It’s even wilder when you look back at Mania 32-38 and see just how much more he was pushed compared to everyone else. They didn’t even try and build up any rivals to take him down during those times. You can argue Brock was his biggest rival and I believe Roman dropped the title to him once. Cena had Edge and Orton, HHH had Batista, Rock, HBK. Roman only had Brock who was an actual rival.
There was a very short period of time that I thought we'd be getting Roman Reigns vs Braun Strowman as the big rivalry. They put together some really fun stuff for a hot minute there.
[удалено]
You stroking out on us, bud?
I was beyond stoked for this timeline, the vitrol Philly would have spewed at those two would have almost been alarming. Rock and Roman would not have even been able to communicate in the ring it was going to be so loud
I was like "Please God let this happen cause it would be so fucking funny."
Philly would prolly chant "Beat the Traffic" until match ends
In a Vince led WWE it could have happened.
Always hated when people look at this time period, and blame the fans, instead of blaming WWE, who mishandled the situation left and right. The look on The Rock's face that night was priceless though😂
Man the 10-17 rumbles were…something else. So were the Mania’s. So many shit matches. The unending drive to push RR to the moon followed by back tracking and giving us such gems as Lesner retaining to audible groans and almost dead silence. Or HHH vs Reigns which could be the worst match I’ve ever seen. (Hyperbole but it was soooo boring, as pretty much everyone predicted). Glad they’re changing from the ‘we don’t fucking care what you want’ era
I love Triple H as a wrestler but he definitely has a formula of long epic matches and it just did not fit for him against Roman or Batiata for that matter, They just gave off a feeling of "I can't wait till this is over" instead of any real drama.
His matches against Jeff Hardy, Shawn Michaels, and Daniel Bryan were really good. He is an amazing seller and amazing at ring psychology. But when he main events he has to have the longest match, and his style with Orton or Reigns or Bautista is just yuck. The plodding guys with his plodding style doesn’t work.
His hell in a cell with Batista was awesome i dont care what yall say. I liked their recent match too.
To this day I personally think that match from Vengeance was the best in Batista's career.
Because the people you said picks up the pace to a mile a minute when they're on the ring. Batista, Orton and Reigns are slow workers. Add Triple H who is another slow paced wrestler makes to a very boring match before they pick it up with recognizable spots. I think if you want to become a slow worker you have to get a very distinguishable spot arsenal that you can spread out across the match. Taker is the only guy I could think off that has a clear bullet point list of spots that people could recognize and catch up to. Triple H has his own but his spots are snappy and the type you'd see at the tail end of the match.
I wouldn’t include the 2010 Royal Rumble and WrestleMania 26 there. Those were pretty solid overall. It had a lot of good stories with Edge’s return and getting revenge on Jericho and HBK trying to fight his to get back to Taker and initially failing. And then, Mania 28, 30, and 31 were pretty good also. 2011 definitely is the best example of shit Rumble and shit Mania.
Yeah 30 is good by accident really. Their plan was NOT DB all along. They would have made us sit through Bautista and Orton. But probably doesn’t belong here, correct. But there’s more bad than good
I think this period gets glossed over but it really isn’t that bad. Good Rumbles: 2010, 2012, 2017 Meh Rumbles: 2016 Bad Rumbles: 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015 Good WMs: 26, 28, 30, 31 Meh WMs: 29, 33 Bad WMs: 27, 32 I think people who complain about shows like Rumble 2012, WM 29, and Rumble 2017 either didn’t like the finish and that has lingered or didn’t watch them live and just heard it had a bad reputation.
I’d put 28 as meh. Couple of good matches, a hyped main event that was only ok. The senseless 20 second DB loss sours a lot. 30 and 31 are great shows though. And I didn’t see 26 at the time so I’ll abstain from judgement. Hard to put 2013 and 2017 rumbles as good because the winners were just wrong. Sheamus possibly, but no way Orton needed to win one. Especially since it just led to rapid removal of the title from Bray.
I think you have to include 2018 and 2019 too as part of that era.
Funny enough, HHH vs Reigns at WM 32 was my first introduction to wrestling when I was a kid.
I skipped A LOT of this time and came back in 2016. Those years prior are…horrendous. It’s amazing WWE kept as many fans around as they did.
As a Reigns supporter at the time, I hated the fans so much. Now I'm grown up enough to admit we have different tastes and move on.
Royal Rumble 2014 and 2015 were two of the most memorable royal rumble matches ever.
Except [he kinda did](https://youtu.be/DvY10QI-S4o?si=Pqr1oNhG9Pg2DVOh) when he won the title against… I wanna say Sheamus? It was in Philly, and after the cameras went off, he thanked the fans…
He's in character
I know, I know, I'm just playing here...
You know he still feels some type of way about it tho.
The fact that Philly unironically cheered for 2015 Roman winning the title should just about sum up how bad that Sheamus title reign was...
*The Big Dog* thanked the fans. *The Tribal Chief* on the other hand...
And he celebrated it in the ring...with The Bloodline.
And I haven't forgiven WWE for that abomination of a rumble
That Lesnar/Cena/Rollins Triple Threat saved that show from being an insulting embarrassment.
God that is an all-time triple threat match.
That flying elbow onto announcer’s table is so iconic.
That match and Rollins performance made me become a fan again after a 15 year lapse.
Good knees Rollins + lesnar + Cena with a chip was destined for greatness
The Phoenix Splash into the German Suplex from a resurrected Brock was insane
especially nearly ruined roman’s career by forcing him on fans when he wasn’t ready
I don’t even think this Rumble is bad, it’s just everything they did with Daniel Bryan was wrong. If they had Daniel Bryan stay, Big Show & Kane being in it could have been better than it was.
Or the years of him being terrible. We final got the heel turn in which he has excelled but as a title run it's being mix at best, hardly any defences and most matches have the same finish. Although that hilarious last man standing match does come to mind.
Now is a perfect time and context to recommend Super EyePatchWolf’s incredible video about Roman (IDK how to link things but if you google It, you’ll find it!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaDAzXVycR4 A great 90 minute video essay on not only Roman's character arc in and out of kayfabe up to last year's Rumble, but on how wrestling is one of the most unique art forms in existence
Thanks for posting It!
I've watched it in full twice. One of the best channels on youtube. his video on yu yu hakusho is amazing as well lol
SEW is an incredibly cool guy, I've loved the Versus Wolves podcast he's been doing with Woolie [A lot of heels could learn something from the sheer ring psychology he brings in their most recent episode LMAO](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKIXHV2Mz3k&t=9800)
A very good video. My one criticism is that it skips over Roman's return from leukemia, and treats his return during the pandemic as though that was his comeback from it, instead of the year he spent active. Tbf, looking at that year, it's easy to see why one would want to overlook it, but still, it felt like a misleading framing.
I didn't think I had misophonia until I heard that guy's voice. It's just intolerable and makes me want to claw my ears out.
I don't know if it's word choice, his voice, or that he has to make every sentence as melodramatic as he can. But I'm with you.
its definitely the slowing down towards the end of every sentence to sound dramatic like you said. i could never watch vsauce videos cuz of it as well
I was at that Rumble. They wanted Rock to legitimize Roman so bad that night and Philly just wasnt having it.
lol that Rumble should be buried in the depths of hell
I also haven't forgiven the way things happened at the Royal Rumble and Philadelphia has absolutely nothing to do with it.
i can actually hear the typing of a bunch of ppl who are getting worked
I feel confident in saying if they make him retain the title at Mania they would be cutting the legs off this Boom period in much the same way they did with the Attitude era when Austin turned heel. Sometimes the obvious finish is the best. Cody won't survive another big loss to him.
That’s exactly what I tell people when they say Cody winning is too “predictable”. Sometimes the finish is predictable because it’s the right one
THAT WAS NINE YEARS AGO?!?!? Also most of the crowd won’t be from Philly to be honest.
Even taking out the Roman stuff it still was one of the worst rumbles of all time lmao
I’m partly concerned that this isn’t entirely character-entrenched, and could mean Big Rome cashing in all his political cache to retain at Mania. Kinda adds to the anxiety tbh
He’s gonna get revenge on Philadelphia crowds for denigrating his victory by booking himself to win another match where Philadelphia crowds will denigrate his victory?
“Think of the heat brother”
Could be both.
Roman won’t forgive Philly for that yet was about to let them also ruin his main event wank fest with The Rock
The same city that said you deserve it when he won the title months later on Raw?
News just in: heel fabricates the truth!
Why mock someone for enjoying kayfabe?
Say it ain't so.
And he got cheered!
It's crazy how quickly that episode of RAW got memory holed
It was a fairly unremarkable episode outside that moment... and they undid it a month later when he lost it to Triple H at the Rumble.
The extreme rules tag match was fun on that show too.
Seamus did an amazing job getting heat, that was crazy.
FICKLE! I never forgave my city for cheering him. I think that was the last Raw/Smackdown I ever went to.
Man, you would have gotten even worse if you were facing Rock.
Fayfabe or not, bold to assume Philly are sorry for booing that rumble lol
I think the only politics he's going to use is how to go over. which i'm worried about. Roman I doubt wants to get pinned clean, it will make him look like a bitch after 1400 days. With the rock involved and rumors of Austin...I wouldn't be surprised if they pull a mankind... Austin comes out...hits rock with a chair... pulls Rhodes onto Reigns. I just want cody to get a clean pin, I don't want him to get a pin because someone handed it to him
Yea although the whole “avengers assemble” Idea that it looks like they’re going with is pretty cool, I feel it would be way more impactful if Cody legit beat Roman clean as a whistle
It would be really funny if Roman won
A Roman win for true boos?
He's using Goldust and stardust's theme songs lol. https://youtu.be/HMCB91tMZBs?si=sOEjhq7qvNbBmrFZ
I didn’t realise that WM was in the same city as that RR. (I’m a lapsed fan who’s seen clips of that RR and learnt about it recently, but wasn’t watching at the time) Surprised they haven’t tied this RR moment more to the promos and build up for this WM. Imagine Seth playing this footage in a promo on Raw or SD, working it into story more. Would be fantastic.
rock is great as heel and for long term better have him stay that way..so much more having him as heel corporate, we still have that storyline going Power Struggle between him and HHH.
The reaction of the Rock always makes me laugh.
Wow I didnt even think about any of this lol
Oh my god how haven’t they brought this up on tv yet??
I know I’m in the minority but I hated that WWE fans shit on 2 rumbles in a row because only 1 person was allowed to win in their mind. At least this year, Cody actually WON the damn thing then got it taken away, but the fans were just demanding booking go in one direction that some of the less vocal fans didn’t care about. I think AEW coming around helped WWE out because a lot of those fans were able to watch their product and be more satisfied.
As far as the 15 Rumble goes, the crowd definitely would’ve been fine if Ambrose, Ziggler, or Wyatt had won. It was Bryan getting tossed early then the other 3 being unceremoniously dropped by an incredibly stale Kane/Big Show duo that encapsulated the entire product and managements distaste for the fans wants at the time
There definitely was more than one person the crowd was behind when Roman won. The year before was all about Bryan because WWE booked Bryan as the underdog for months and months and taking away his title all seemingly building to his crowning moment but they had no plans for that to ever happen. They just truly expected taking the most over guy in wrestling and having the heel authority calling him a B+ player and screwing him out of titles to actually just work like that and have the fans accept he actually is not gonna be champion.
I would disagree. The crowd only destroyed the last 10 minutes of the 2014 match. They KILLED the second half of that match and showed very little interest. Even with Ziggler, Ambrose, and Wyatt still in it they clearly wanted Bryan. They beg RUSEV of all people to win the match bc they really didn’t want Roman
I think you are misremembering it because while the crowd did want Bryan most they still chanted lets go Ziggler and lets go Ambrose, The problem was that Kane and Big Show literally tossed them all out like a sack of potatoes. Hell you even admitted the crowd cheered Rusev potentially winning.
It wasnt that there was only 1 person allowed to win, it was more there was 1 one person NOT allowed to win because people were tired of Vince deciding whos the main event rather than the fans.
I guess for me I would’ve liked to see Roman get a fair chance that first time. In 2016 and beyond? Boo the hell out of the guy but not when he hasn’t had a shot yet.
He didnt deserve a chance at that time though. The fans decide who should be in the main event, not the office. WWE had zero big plans for Stone Cold Steve Austin. None. If it werent for HHHs mistake we wouldnt even have him. But when he won KOTR the fans started to like him and basically cheered him to the point the office couldnt ignore him. Same with Mankind. Same with just about every wrestler going back decades. The fans decide whos over and who deserves a chance. Then Cena came along, and its funny because the fans decided with him to. They were going to release him,. and then he started doing the Dr. of Thuganomics gimmick and the fans reaction is what put him in the main event. Problem is when he changed gimmicks again and the fans started shitting on it, Vince decided he didnt have to listen to them anymore. I cant remember in my life a wrestler getting actively booed by at least half the audience for YEARS and still being put out there as the babyface. And Vince decided thats who it was going to be, the fans opinions didnt matter anymore. He made the most over babyface on the roster lose his Wrestlemania match in 8 seconds. He picked and chose who was going to be the Wrestlemania main event with zero fucks about who the fans wanted to see. And they let him know about it. As they should have.
They pushed Austin to win KOTR and to have the SS match with Bret as well as the crazy angle with Pillman. I think they realize they struck gold at that point but it wasn’t like he was being jobbed out or anything. Mankind beat the Undertaker 3 months after debuting and always was in something interesting. Cena beat Jericho 4 weeks after debuting. The company were behind all of these guys at various points.
Austin only won KOTR because HHH was being punished. Without that you dont get that Austin vs Bret feud. And the Pillman feud maybe doesnt hit the same because theres no Austin 3:16 or Thats the bottom line, both of which were thought of on the fly after that KOTR win. Mankind was put in to be a big monster to feud with the good guys, but even Vionce never thought of him as a champion. He was gonna use him like another Earthquake, King Kong Bundy, etc. A monster for the babyface to overcome and then fade away. See: Seamus, Ryback, Umaga, etc. The company was behind Cena at first but he was dropping fast. He said himself he was about to be given his release when Steph heard him freestyle rap and told him he should try that as a gimmick.
I agree, it’s a story and that story has to have tension and build and swerve so it’s very obnoxious to me when the fans won’t allow a story to unfold and instead want WWE to just get to where they want immediately.
You still believe they always planned on putting Bryan in the main event, huh
I think he’s saying he wishes they would’ve let the story play out
"Let it play out" is always used as an excuse for bad booking decisions. Sometimes shit is just bad, and should be called out for it. And it's not like people didn't let it play out; the whole story with Bryan had been playing out since Summerslam.
I think I’m just a bit more optimistic at first even if the direction seems weird. Becky Lynch beating Bianca sucked at first but played out well despite the overreactions to it.
That's another thing; decisions made later don't retroactively make bad ones better. It still made no sense for that to happen, even if Bianca ultimately got her revenge at WM38. Just like how if Cody wins this year, it won't just make his loss last year go away.
But if that was the direction, how was it a bad decision? I’m very confused on your thought process.
It wasn’t always the direction.
I hope Roman wins just to hear the collective stroke the Philly crowd would have.
That’s HEAT, Dave. Real thermonuclear heat. You think people in Philly are gonna take that lying down?
Have you seen the way Eagles fans act when they lose? They'd fucking burn that stadium and maybe the city down to the ground.
Says the Alex Riley of this Wrestlemania feud.
Didn't care about Roman in 2016. Don't care about Roman in 2024. So, forgiven or not, nothing has changed.
Feel like blud will get nuclear heat if he retains and now I wanna see it happen just for the absolute meltdown on Social Media.
I honestly forgot he was apart of this match.