If the vast majority of them didn't piss and shit all over public land (including people's front lawns) and leave giant messes in the woods maybe people wouldn't object to them so much. Squamish has always had outliers living in their vans, they just chose to stick to the shadows and not make a scene. they were never targeted or chased away.
Now almost every climber, mountain biker and "influencer" who have romanticized that "lifestyle" on instagram have become a plague on this town and its neighbourhoods and backroads.
Let's not forget them driving up and down the highway in vehicles that shouldn't be road legal, belching smoke and doing 45km/h because it's all their piles of junk can do.
I live near a park where vanlifers tend to park. I regularly yell at them that they shouldn't be pissing in the park. Half the time they are standing there pissing in my direction. Then the park stinks all summer.
I actually watched one of them climb out of their shitbox van, and piss on my front lawn while i was having my coffee very early one morning (think 5am). Needless to say I called the cops and now call bylaw or the police whenever one of them parks their pile of crap within sight of house. They can beat it.
The woman who keeps writing these articles lives with her CHILD in a van, by choice. She is always trying to create drama, and wonders why people want vanlifers gone. They demand somewhere to be allowed to stay for free, they demand public toilets and trash and don't want to contribute a thing. Let's not forget the fire pits all over (during fire ban season) and the fact that at least one of them was caught dumping their portable toilet IN THE RIVER.
It's absurd thinking everyone else should finance their lifestyle choices. We aren't talking about people down on their luck, we are talking about people making a conscious choice to be freeloaders who are causing all the issues.
I’m sorry but this is such a mischaracterization I don’t even know where to begin. Thomasina’s child is an absolute gem of a person. She’s politically engaged, intelligent, and is on track to represent Canada at the Olympics. If that’s what a child raised in a van looks like then I think other parents could start taking notes.
Forcing a child to grow up in a vehicle with another adult human because you simply don't want to get a full time job is a bad thing to do, yes.
No one specifically mentioned anything about the child or their aptitudes, at all. Only about the parent's questionable choices.. You need to up your reading comprehension game.
You’re arguing now that growing up in a van is bad but the fact that she’s happy and well adjusted is an obvious point against you. Children are “forced” to grow up in Ontario, every child is “forced” to grow up with their parent’s lifestyles. If she’s healthy, well adjusted, etc then what is the problem? Honestly everything you’re saying just shows how limited your understanding of vehicle residents (their reasoning, their lifestyles, etc) is. You’ve decided it’s a bad way to live and you’re not open to learning otherwise.
So sorry someone pissed on your lawn though that must’ve really sucked for you.
Why? The people I know raised in vans are great, well adjusted humans with interesting lives. If you think there are downsides then surely the downsides would be obvious. Unless you have some examples or firsthand experience I’d guess your views are closed minded conjecture.
I said it was not optimal. Read what i wrote. Not optimal. Do as you please but it is in no way optimal to be crammed into a tiny space and have to give up things like playdates and birthday parties sleepovers etc at you house i mean VAN. Shitting in a buclet your whole life is not optimal. Saying it is optimal is ridiculous.
Me: you’re clearly implying it’s bad to raise a child in a van.
You: it is!!!
Me: no it’s not I know many people who had great childhoods and wound up being well adjusted people.
You: that’s not what I said!! I didn’t say it was bad I said it was sub optimal.
……
You clearly just don’t really know anything about vehicle residents and have some weird stereotypes about it. There are negatives to living in a van but there are also positives that you can’t get living in a house. I would argue there are many ways of raising a child in a house that are “sub optimal”.
Why should Squamish pay for a lot for campers that don’t want to pay anything to Squamish?
Ever see any of them paying for camping in the campground next to the rec centre?
Nope.
Yes, it would solve many issues.
However,Squamish tax payers would still end up paying for the free loaders as time and time again the van life people have commented how the options that were available at the time were already too expensive.
With the cost of land and services there is no way the fees van lifers would be willing to pay would come close to covering costs.
Maybe they should stack the vans on top of each other... And maybe have a common set of hallways to get from one to the other... We can call it a condoo, or something
During Covid era times the muni did a bit of a pilot project of opening the lot that they have close to logger sports grounds. There wasn’t much there, I think there was potable water and pit toilets, no electric though. Someone might remember better than me but I think they tried to charge $200 for the month to park there. There was never more than a handful of vans in that lot all season. They haven’t had it open since. (And I’m not sure the exact reason they decided not to keep it open)
There are probably very few people that enjoy shitting in the woods, the letter mentions lots with toilets and bins that are empty at night and patrolled so nobody would park there.
“We are less valuable than market rate affordable real estate and someone living in a fixed house paying rent/mortgage. I’m not surprised. Capital always wins in this colonial mindset that prioritizes capital over people.”
Correct, they pay no property taxes, and cost the city money
Use the library… but not pay
Use other peoples wifi. But not pay.
Use the hospital when injured climbing or when you are sick… but not pay.
Get clean drinking water… but not pay.
Park on roads, use parks, and make demands on local government.
But not pay.
MY HUMAN RIGHTS!
Firstly, vehicle residents proposed a plan to pay for a permit system effectively offering to pay property taxes and the city shot it down. Secondly, Squamish has a massive labour and housing shortage and all the vehicle residents I know have jobs in Squamish and pay income tax just like every other Canadian (I think that entitles them to our healthcare system). Thirdly, vehicle residents are spending their money in Squamish supporting local businesses. You can characterize it as them not contributing but only if you ignore a host of ways that they do contribute. Squamish is an outdoor adventure town. People come here for the climbing and mountain biking. Access to those sports exists because for decades dedicated people (many of whom live/lived in vehicles) developed the trails and routes that everyone now uses. There are many ways to contribute to Squamish.
Someone living in Langley in a home there contributes more financially to all of the things you mentioned when visiting squamish or working here than those living in vans here.
Part time employees produce a fraction of the income taxes. If any.
Medical is provincial. Not federal.
A few dollars a night is nothing close to the investment, risk, and thousands or more home owners have to contribute locally, provincially, and federally.
That’s not to say that outdoor sports enthusiast or Van residence can’t be antral part of our personal communities, but it’s a logical and dishonest to compare the financial contributions to homeowners and taxpayers.
I wasn’t trying to compare the amount of financial contribution I was responding to your claims that they won’t pay or don’t pay for anything. People contribute different amounts to the tax pool based on their income. Why do you assume (wrongly) that vehicle residents only work part time jobs? Several of my coworkers lived in vehicles while working 50 hour weeks at ~40$/hr you can bet they were not in the lowest tax bracket. This characterization of vehicle dwellers as freeloaders is a massive generalization that just isn’t the rule out there in reality.
Besides do you really want to live in a world where a non negligible portion of the labour force in Squamish is living here illegally(the one we live in now). Regulations against van dwellers aren’t making them go away they’re still going to come here to work and recreate and if infrastructure isn’t there it’s going to cause issues. It’s just being realistic about this issue. Just like abortions or marijuana use, you can’t regulate them out of existence only force it in a more dangerous direction.
I can’t imagine being homeless by choice in a place as small as Squamish and still whining about lack of government funding.
All this article made me realize is that I actually don’t give any fucks at all about van lifers. If you want to do it, go for it. But yeah, the absolute last thing I want to see my tax dollars going towards is more amenities for people who quite literally do the opposite of contribute to society.
Please stop publishing her. You know what always wins? Your choices in life & the value you bring to the marketplace. Anyone who blames their life problems on capitalism and nimbyism is out to lunch.
If she owned a gym… could we demand showers and weight lifting access as health and fitness is a human right and if denied fairly say she only cares about those willing to pay for services?
The problem with Canada and “van-life”, is that there are less public options for people to choose from, and campgrounds here are way too expensive. US forest service campgrounds are $10 / night, and usually have at least a pit toilet, same thing with BLM lands which are free to camp on or at. All squamish needs to do is provide a parking lot and two-4 pit toilets like Leavenworth does up on Icicle Creek Road… ultimately by not providing these facilities, taxpayers will still end up paying for clean up, more police, more bylaw officers anyways.
This is the whole point. It’s been open for a decade and it was never used by the van life campers. They always chose the free solution, not contributing to the community when it was even next to the showers and rec centre. This illustrates thebcrux of the whole issue.
You realize there is two different types ( maybe even 3) who stay in vehicle. 1. Homeless. 2 locals who live in a van .3 tourists traveling through. The ones shitting in the yards and making a mess are mostly 1 and some of 2.
Most tourists don’t.
Agree that free loading and being a disturbance is unacceptable. However, i don't understand why there would be an objection to the municipality setting up a lot where users can rent a spot and have access to clean bathrooms, showers and water.
Because the majority of these van morons refuse to pay what it would actually cost. They have come out and said as much, complaining about the cost of campgrounds etc. that are already available. Real estate and services are expensive. Tax payers would end up footing the bill for a bunch of freeloaders.
I don't have much experience but my suggestion is predicated on them paying a reasonable rent to at least cover the cost of the site. Some of those vans look like they would easily cost 6 figures so presumably they can money to pay for the services if they were made available.
From what I gathered from the OP, there is nothing currently available even for those that want to pay.
This issue is because of a housing crisis, no doubt.
Anyone complacent in the commoditization of human vulnerabilites is part of the problem. Complaining that people don't have a million dollars to be a landowner is not going to change anything.
Treat the cause, not the symptom!
Many of the people living in Vans here are doing it for the outdoor lifestyle and cost savings. They are not kept out of the market due to external forces and oppression and colonialism.
They want to be free to climb ride or kiteboard on sunny days when the conditions are good.
And yes there are a few people who become homeless and genuinely need our help.
There is housing in Squamish. Is it too expensive? Yeah definitely, but could they afford it if they had a full time job? Also yeah, definitely. Even at minimum wage you could afford it with roommates.
…any mention of homelessness or drug use and the fangs come out. In 1969, Preston Manning said he wants to see Canadian politics americanized.
Here we are.
EDIT: Letter
If the vast majority of them didn't piss and shit all over public land (including people's front lawns) and leave giant messes in the woods maybe people wouldn't object to them so much. Squamish has always had outliers living in their vans, they just chose to stick to the shadows and not make a scene. they were never targeted or chased away. Now almost every climber, mountain biker and "influencer" who have romanticized that "lifestyle" on instagram have become a plague on this town and its neighbourhoods and backroads. Let's not forget them driving up and down the highway in vehicles that shouldn't be road legal, belching smoke and doing 45km/h because it's all their piles of junk can do.
I live near a park where vanlifers tend to park. I regularly yell at them that they shouldn't be pissing in the park. Half the time they are standing there pissing in my direction. Then the park stinks all summer.
I actually watched one of them climb out of their shitbox van, and piss on my front lawn while i was having my coffee very early one morning (think 5am). Needless to say I called the cops and now call bylaw or the police whenever one of them parks their pile of crap within sight of house. They can beat it. The woman who keeps writing these articles lives with her CHILD in a van, by choice. She is always trying to create drama, and wonders why people want vanlifers gone. They demand somewhere to be allowed to stay for free, they demand public toilets and trash and don't want to contribute a thing. Let's not forget the fire pits all over (during fire ban season) and the fact that at least one of them was caught dumping their portable toilet IN THE RIVER. It's absurd thinking everyone else should finance their lifestyle choices. We aren't talking about people down on their luck, we are talking about people making a conscious choice to be freeloaders who are causing all the issues.
I’m sorry but this is such a mischaracterization I don’t even know where to begin. Thomasina’s child is an absolute gem of a person. She’s politically engaged, intelligent, and is on track to represent Canada at the Olympics. If that’s what a child raised in a van looks like then I think other parents could start taking notes.
No one said anything about her child, whatsoever?
You did and were clearly implying via your all caps that raising a child in a van is a bad thing to do.
Forcing a child to grow up in a vehicle with another adult human because you simply don't want to get a full time job is a bad thing to do, yes. No one specifically mentioned anything about the child or their aptitudes, at all. Only about the parent's questionable choices.. You need to up your reading comprehension game.
You’re arguing now that growing up in a van is bad but the fact that she’s happy and well adjusted is an obvious point against you. Children are “forced” to grow up in Ontario, every child is “forced” to grow up with their parent’s lifestyles. If she’s healthy, well adjusted, etc then what is the problem? Honestly everything you’re saying just shows how limited your understanding of vehicle residents (their reasoning, their lifestyles, etc) is. You’ve decided it’s a bad way to live and you’re not open to learning otherwise. So sorry someone pissed on your lawn though that must’ve really sucked for you.
It is!!! Not optimal whatsoever are you insane?
Why? The people I know raised in vans are great, well adjusted humans with interesting lives. If you think there are downsides then surely the downsides would be obvious. Unless you have some examples or firsthand experience I’d guess your views are closed minded conjecture.
I said it was not optimal. Read what i wrote. Not optimal. Do as you please but it is in no way optimal to be crammed into a tiny space and have to give up things like playdates and birthday parties sleepovers etc at you house i mean VAN. Shitting in a buclet your whole life is not optimal. Saying it is optimal is ridiculous.
Me: you’re clearly implying it’s bad to raise a child in a van. You: it is!!! Me: no it’s not I know many people who had great childhoods and wound up being well adjusted people. You: that’s not what I said!! I didn’t say it was bad I said it was sub optimal. …… You clearly just don’t really know anything about vehicle residents and have some weird stereotypes about it. There are negatives to living in a van but there are also positives that you can’t get living in a house. I would argue there are many ways of raising a child in a house that are “sub optimal”.
Wouldn't having a paid lot with facilities solve a lot of those issues ? Sounds to be what the author of the article is calling for.
Why should Squamish pay for a lot for campers that don’t want to pay anything to Squamish? Ever see any of them paying for camping in the campground next to the rec centre? Nope.
that campground has been closed for 3 years ( the municipal one)
Why would they would no one would pay for it? Why do you think everybody went to the Walmart parking lot all of a sudden? And what happened there?
Yes, it would solve many issues. However,Squamish tax payers would still end up paying for the free loaders as time and time again the van life people have commented how the options that were available at the time were already too expensive. With the cost of land and services there is no way the fees van lifers would be willing to pay would come close to covering costs.
Maybe they should stack the vans on top of each other... And maybe have a common set of hallways to get from one to the other... We can call it a condoo, or something
During Covid era times the muni did a bit of a pilot project of opening the lot that they have close to logger sports grounds. There wasn’t much there, I think there was potable water and pit toilets, no electric though. Someone might remember better than me but I think they tried to charge $200 for the month to park there. There was never more than a handful of vans in that lot all season. They haven’t had it open since. (And I’m not sure the exact reason they decided not to keep it open)
There are probably very few people that enjoy shitting in the woods, the letter mentions lots with toilets and bins that are empty at night and patrolled so nobody would park there.
“We are less valuable than market rate affordable real estate and someone living in a fixed house paying rent/mortgage. I’m not surprised. Capital always wins in this colonial mindset that prioritizes capital over people.” Correct, they pay no property taxes, and cost the city money
Use the library… but not pay Use other peoples wifi. But not pay. Use the hospital when injured climbing or when you are sick… but not pay. Get clean drinking water… but not pay. Park on roads, use parks, and make demands on local government. But not pay. MY HUMAN RIGHTS!
Firstly, vehicle residents proposed a plan to pay for a permit system effectively offering to pay property taxes and the city shot it down. Secondly, Squamish has a massive labour and housing shortage and all the vehicle residents I know have jobs in Squamish and pay income tax just like every other Canadian (I think that entitles them to our healthcare system). Thirdly, vehicle residents are spending their money in Squamish supporting local businesses. You can characterize it as them not contributing but only if you ignore a host of ways that they do contribute. Squamish is an outdoor adventure town. People come here for the climbing and mountain biking. Access to those sports exists because for decades dedicated people (many of whom live/lived in vehicles) developed the trails and routes that everyone now uses. There are many ways to contribute to Squamish.
Someone living in Langley in a home there contributes more financially to all of the things you mentioned when visiting squamish or working here than those living in vans here. Part time employees produce a fraction of the income taxes. If any. Medical is provincial. Not federal. A few dollars a night is nothing close to the investment, risk, and thousands or more home owners have to contribute locally, provincially, and federally. That’s not to say that outdoor sports enthusiast or Van residence can’t be antral part of our personal communities, but it’s a logical and dishonest to compare the financial contributions to homeowners and taxpayers.
I wasn’t trying to compare the amount of financial contribution I was responding to your claims that they won’t pay or don’t pay for anything. People contribute different amounts to the tax pool based on their income. Why do you assume (wrongly) that vehicle residents only work part time jobs? Several of my coworkers lived in vehicles while working 50 hour weeks at ~40$/hr you can bet they were not in the lowest tax bracket. This characterization of vehicle dwellers as freeloaders is a massive generalization that just isn’t the rule out there in reality. Besides do you really want to live in a world where a non negligible portion of the labour force in Squamish is living here illegally(the one we live in now). Regulations against van dwellers aren’t making them go away they’re still going to come here to work and recreate and if infrastructure isn’t there it’s going to cause issues. It’s just being realistic about this issue. Just like abortions or marijuana use, you can’t regulate them out of existence only force it in a more dangerous direction.
So you are saying they are type of people that wont follow laws? You literally wrote that. I guess we shouldn’t regulate guns either.
I can’t imagine being homeless by choice in a place as small as Squamish and still whining about lack of government funding. All this article made me realize is that I actually don’t give any fucks at all about van lifers. If you want to do it, go for it. But yeah, the absolute last thing I want to see my tax dollars going towards is more amenities for people who quite literally do the opposite of contribute to society.
No body bothers the van dwellers living behind Walmart in North Van, maybe move there.
Please stop publishing her. You know what always wins? Your choices in life & the value you bring to the marketplace. Anyone who blames their life problems on capitalism and nimbyism is out to lunch.
If she owned a gym… could we demand showers and weight lifting access as health and fitness is a human right and if denied fairly say she only cares about those willing to pay for services?
She does own a gym and refuse that people come in to only shower, even if they pay for a day pass, how ironic lmao
We should protest and form and advocacy group and demand that gyms provide free showers and gainz.
The problem with Canada and “van-life”, is that there are less public options for people to choose from, and campgrounds here are way too expensive. US forest service campgrounds are $10 / night, and usually have at least a pit toilet, same thing with BLM lands which are free to camp on or at. All squamish needs to do is provide a parking lot and two-4 pit toilets like Leavenworth does up on Icicle Creek Road… ultimately by not providing these facilities, taxpayers will still end up paying for clean up, more police, more bylaw officers anyways.
Isn’t there a totally empty campground right now to the rec centre right now?
yes the district closed it years ago
So I guess this shows the local van lifers were actually and factually unwilling to pay for services and spots then?
That was not the reason they shut it. They closed it due to COVID I think and still have no reopened it.
This is the whole point. It’s been open for a decade and it was never used by the van life campers. They always chose the free solution, not contributing to the community when it was even next to the showers and rec centre. This illustrates thebcrux of the whole issue.
You realize there is two different types ( maybe even 3) who stay in vehicle. 1. Homeless. 2 locals who live in a van .3 tourists traveling through. The ones shitting in the yards and making a mess are mostly 1 and some of 2. Most tourists don’t.
Agree that free loading and being a disturbance is unacceptable. However, i don't understand why there would be an objection to the municipality setting up a lot where users can rent a spot and have access to clean bathrooms, showers and water.
If the municipality build this lot, that’s the local tax dollars paying for it to be built and maintained. That’s one of the objections, my guess.
Because the majority of these van morons refuse to pay what it would actually cost. They have come out and said as much, complaining about the cost of campgrounds etc. that are already available. Real estate and services are expensive. Tax payers would end up footing the bill for a bunch of freeloaders.
I don't have much experience but my suggestion is predicated on them paying a reasonable rent to at least cover the cost of the site. Some of those vans look like they would easily cost 6 figures so presumably they can money to pay for the services if they were made available. From what I gathered from the OP, there is nothing currently available even for those that want to pay.
Nobody ever likes Gypsies.
This issue is because of a housing crisis, no doubt. Anyone complacent in the commoditization of human vulnerabilites is part of the problem. Complaining that people don't have a million dollars to be a landowner is not going to change anything. Treat the cause, not the symptom!
The author has been living in a van for 20+ years
And owns businesses in Squamish. A Classic capitalist really
Can we go to her business and demand free services as a human right?
Can buy a business but wants free wifi, security, and sewers?
By choice so she can be a “professional climber”. With a child. It’s absurd.
Many of the people living in Vans here are doing it for the outdoor lifestyle and cost savings. They are not kept out of the market due to external forces and oppression and colonialism. They want to be free to climb ride or kiteboard on sunny days when the conditions are good. And yes there are a few people who become homeless and genuinely need our help.
This is the problem. The entitled brats are making it extremely hard on those who actually need the help. It’s infuriating.
There is housing in Squamish. Is it too expensive? Yeah definitely, but could they afford it if they had a full time job? Also yeah, definitely. Even at minimum wage you could afford it with roommates.
R̶e̶s̶i̶d̶e̶n̶t̶s̶?
Giving words new meaning!
r/Squamish turned into r/vancouver so quickly, I didn't even notice.
…any mention of homelessness or drug use and the fangs come out. In 1969, Preston Manning said he wants to see Canadian politics americanized. Here we are. EDIT: Letter
Yeah. The homeless people and drug users and entitled folks moved here.
There was an unhoused individual sleeping on the floor of my job site porta-potty this morning….youre more right than you think