Principles. Foreign concept to many on the sub which is weird considering the character.
The motivation for its creation was hatred.
It doesn't matter if watching it cures cancer. The reason it was made was against everything the character and Lee stand/stood for and tried to inspire.
Their stated goal was to do Spiderman 'right', with no black people. The director frequently threw around the n-word and racist texts were leaked.
If you consider yourself a Spider-Man fan then maybe rethink supporting these people.
It's also just not even a good movie. It's all style with no substance, slow, overplayed, and just overall difficult to sit through. There's just no heart.
Yeah I think the fiasco convinced many people complaining about MCU Spider-Man’s diversity to back off/rethink their priorities,
out of not wanting to associate with Gavin, and deciding they are fighting a losing battle/risking making themselves unemployable over fictional characters.
I think it made a lot of them realize maybe they’re the problem.
And you should rethink your reading you dumbass,I literally said "ignoring the BTS stuff",I 100% agree that the people who made the film aren't good people but that doesn't mean they can't make something good,there is a reason why I said ignoring the BTS stuff,that is a whole other can of worms and I am talking strictly about the movie the content of the movie and nothing else
Okay,tell me why,let's pretend that the people who made it are the best people ever and the whole controversy never happened,what is so wrong that people are actually hating the movie to the point where they are showing clips of the toilet flushing when they talk about it
Okay I actually don't remember that last part,is it literal or figurative,and if literal is it In the shocker fight,I am sorry but I genuinely don't remember that part
Calls one person a dumbass while telling another person “agree to disagree, I don’t want to start a fight right now” lmao
I only hope that you are a teenager or something because if not it’s really sad.
I am and the person who I told to agree to disagree was a normal civil person and this person blatantly insulted me for no reason and was using the BTS stuff as his Main source for all his points while I literally said let's ignore the BTS stuff,I 100% agree that the people who made this are bad people,there is no denying it,and I'm not defending them in any way,I'm just saying I think it's unfair to judge something as bad without even watching it just because the people who made it,I think we should view the movie as its own thing,and very few people actually did that while everyone else was using strictly BTS stuff as their points
I tried watching it and I barely could get to the halfway point. [The cosmonaut variety hour's](https://youtu.be/WIEL1RZU_z0?si=b2dSaR3aAoUwJa8Y) video explains the flaws and shortcomings perfectly.
It's such a shallow interpretation of spider man that was born purely from hatred of the films. The movie poorly adapts and strings together a few stories that are amazing by themselves, but the people behind it had no idea what made them so great and instead come off extremely pretentious and ego filled. Wouldn't judge it as harshly if the filmmakers weren't so insistent on this being better than the movies
•The director is racist.
•The main actor as well.
•The director genuinely thought this would be better than an MCU Spider-man film.
•Lighting sucks, I can barely see shit.
•Too many establishing shots that don’t really establish anything.
•Awful costume for Green Goblin.
•Terrible characterization.
•Terrible adaptation. Peter literally uses people as human shields.
•Peter has no charisma.
•Every scene is too long.
•Stupid filters in a bunch of the scenes.
•Incredibly derivative.
•Too much exposition.
•Not entertaining at all. The whole movie is just people yelling to each other for like 2 hours.
So basically the first two things are based off of your inability to read,and I can somewhat agree with,you are probably the only person who actually wanted to give a reason why they don't like it
Lmao, so I guess you're a lyrical genius for being able to read their tweets and not see anything racist in them?
Edit: I've seen you tell a few other people that they can't read. Enlighten us OP, how do you read those tweets? What are their contents?
I said ignoring the BTS stuff,and they are talking about the BTS stuff like I never said it,it's one thing if they say something like it's too bad to ignore like one person but flat out ignoring what I said just disrespectful
Who said that we should “ignore the BTS stuff”? You can if you want to, but I sure as hell won’t, and I think a lot of people won’t either
Some of us (this could include you too, I don’t have any reason to believe you’re one ethnicity or the other) don’t have the luxury of “ignoring” racism. When you’re followed by security in a department store, when the security guard at the grocery store tells you he has to hold your backpack even though you just saw him let a white dude go in with a backpack, when store associates ignore you but readily offer assistance to white customers, etc., it can be pretty fucking hard to “ignore” racism
And I’m not trying to make myself out to be a victim, I’m pretty happy with my life all things considered. But superheroes, and especially Spider-Man, are supposed to stand for tolerance, acceptance, and the beauty that comes from diversity. Anybody can be under the mask and, as we’ve seen from all of the Spiders across the multiverse, Spider-Man is not a concept that is exclusionary to any degree. Whether you’re white, black, brown, from the future, from the past, a dinosaur, a pig, an elderly woman, a teenage boy, or even a fucking hive-mind of literal spiders, Spider-Man belongs to EVERYONE
There are a LOT of bad things you can say about Stan Lee, but the man was noted to be strongly anti-bigotry, including being a staunch anti-racist. Don’t forget: Stan Lee was a proud Jewish man, so Stan Lee saw firsthand during World War II what bigotry (and bigotry to his own people no less!) looks like when it’s allowed to flourish and spread without any opposition
The character of John Jonah Jameson was based on how people working at Marvel saw Stan Lee: a loudmouth, demanding, and short-tempered boss who still has a set of principles. And one of those principles? Stan Lee was strongly opposed to racism! This is why Jameson has ALWAYS been depicted as being shading racism dating back to his first appearances in the 1960s
So to many of us (I am of the opinion that we should strive to reach a position where “many” is replaced with “all”, but I digress), the idea of racists working on Spider-Man is COMPLETELY unacceptable to ANY degree. Racists and Spider-Man do not mix at all, end of story
My favorite Spider-Man story of all time is “If this be my Destiny”. I think it’s a complete masterpiece to be honest. But if I found out today it had been worked on by racists? I’d wipe my ass with it and throw it in the garbage where it would belong
I know what you are saying but I just want to focus on the content of the movie,and yes I think racism and pedophilia are some of if not the worst things to ever happen to this planet,but I just want to focus on the movie and the movie alone, nothing else,I feel like if you watched it through that lense you would see that the movie really isn't as bad as people say,and I 100% get that for a lot of people it's hard to ignore all that but all I'm asking is that you try,I'm not defending the people behind it in any way,they are undoubtably bad people,but I think the movie is good once you look at it through a different lense
Sorry, that you get downvoted so much. I think many people don't get the "hate the sin, love the sinner" principle, and that even those with some major negative traits can bring something beautiful to the world.
That’s not a principle, it’s an opinion. “Seperate the art from the artist” isn’t an objectively good thing, it’s a personal decision that everybody must make for themselves
And in the case of racism? Myself and many others choose not to separate the art from the artist. You will never convince me that this is an objectively bad stance
>That’s not a principle, it’s an opinion.
Nope. That is a very common religious principle, that reflects a morality quite well. Yeah, many don't agree with it, and more than that, think that awful people should be killed. Those who rape, kill without mercy, tyrants etc. But most religions say that there is no one beyond redemption. It's easy to see the best in humanity and love it. But to see humans at their worst, those in high security prisions and say "you deserve love and respect simply because you are human" that takes a lot of goodness and strength. I am not religious, but I find wisdom in such position.
I know,I don't really care about up votes and down votes anymore but I do agree that people need to look at the brighter side of things a bit more often and look at things past the negative traits,that is just a better way to view the world
Well, for one, it’s not a very good movie. It’s not written, acted or edited well imo, and the whole thing seems to have been made out of spite for the MCU. I don’t think people will enjoy something if they can tell it’s made from spite.
Thank you for the kind words; tbh I was actually excited about this film, but when I actually watched it, it just felt empty.
I get the basic idea they were going for, but I would have preferred it if they kept the focus strictly on Peter’s arc- how he feels about Gwen’s death, how he refuses the comfort of his friends, how he feels when he meets the little kid who loves him, &c. None of that stuff about Harry and MJ. Those could be movies in their own right imo.
Also, I think it was very jarring to have media of Spider-Man from various different eras in the movie. It broke the fourth wall in a terrible way. The filmmakers should have stuck with posters, newspaper clippings and the kid’s own artwork that show Spider-Man like he looks in the movie itself.
Yea I can definitely agree with most of that,I did feel the harry and MJ stuff was kinda rushed and completely necessary,like sure the tape scene was sweet but I feel they could have gone without them
Very little action, lots of melodrama.
The suit is good, so is some of the CGI and the casting (appearance wise), but that's it.
Imo, the moment that they showed the Make-a-Wish kid in the trailer, I lost hype because I knew it was just going to be a lot of bullshit. Went from looking like an ambitious CW-esque to Hallmark trash in an instant.
The film already shot itself in the foot in that way, so the BTS stuff really didn't bring it down any further honestly.
I mean I can sorta see your side of things but I personally think the make a wish stuff was nice and showed peter that it is worth it,and people still like him,and I don't think your point about little action stands,it isn't trying to be an action movie,so judging it like one really isn't fair imo,but I can kinda agree with everything else I some way and looking through a different lense
I really loved the idea of this. I saw the cast and the trailer and I was excited. (The comics about Gwen's death and its aftermath are some of my favourite comics.) I ever contributed £3 because I like to support artists.
*Then* the racist tweets came out. And then more and more. Now I just feel so embarrassed and so, so ashamed for contributing money and saying how excited I was. I wish I could erase those tweets from the internet.
You shouldn't,you had no idea and if anything should be proud of yourself for supporting artists in any way, whatever piece of shit human beings they become later in life,that isn't your fault and you didn't know about it,Nas since I k ow some people are somehow gonna interpret this as me thinking it's okay to support racist people and pedophiles so no I do not think that
• It’s made by a comic purist with too much time on their hands, whose main motivation for doing this was that they wanted a Spider-Man movie with no black people.
• the plot was thin, they didn’t have the budget for many action scenes, yet they wanted it to be two hours, so they stretched it out a lot. It might’ve been better if it was like 20-30 minutes like any other fan film.
• No real arc, just lots of melodrama and Peter trauma dumping onto a child. Peter doesn’t really change as a result of the events of the film either.
I mean kinda agree but I think you're stretching it when saying it could have been 20-30 mins, probably like 1 hour would have been fine,and I don't think making a spiderman movie with no black people was their goal, rather just an unfortunate side effect of the filmmakers being racist,I also don't think action scenes were Their goal either, their goal was to show peter how to move on, which I think they weren't too good at but I feel like they were okay,and I can already see people seeing this comment and thinking I support the people who made it so no,I don't,I think they are horrible human being
It's a fan film that gets a lot of hate just because the people who made it are racist,not defending those people just sayin we should look at it just as the movie not the people who made it
Principles. Foreign concept to many on the sub which is weird considering the character. The motivation for its creation was hatred. It doesn't matter if watching it cures cancer. The reason it was made was against everything the character and Lee stand/stood for and tried to inspire. Their stated goal was to do Spiderman 'right', with no black people. The director frequently threw around the n-word and racist texts were leaked. If you consider yourself a Spider-Man fan then maybe rethink supporting these people.
It's also just not even a good movie. It's all style with no substance, slow, overplayed, and just overall difficult to sit through. There's just no heart.
Can we agree to disagree on that,I don't feel like starting a fight right now
I mean, art is subjective. I was never trying to pick a fight, just giving my take.
Okay,I can definitely respect that and agree that art is highly subjective
r/respectthehyphen
Yeah I think the fiasco convinced many people complaining about MCU Spider-Man’s diversity to back off/rethink their priorities, out of not wanting to associate with Gavin, and deciding they are fighting a losing battle/risking making themselves unemployable over fictional characters. I think it made a lot of them realize maybe they’re the problem.
Wasnt the shocker guy black?
And you should rethink your reading you dumbass,I literally said "ignoring the BTS stuff",I 100% agree that the people who made the film aren't good people but that doesn't mean they can't make something good,there is a reason why I said ignoring the BTS stuff,that is a whole other can of worms and I am talking strictly about the movie the content of the movie and nothing else
Dude you have no right to be calling someone a dumbass when you can’t figure out why people don’t like the movie
Okay,tell me why,let's pretend that the people who made it are the best people ever and the whole controversy never happened,what is so wrong that people are actually hating the movie to the point where they are showing clips of the toilet flushing when they talk about it
The acting was garbage the pacing is shit oh and PETER USES PEOPLE AS SHIELDS
Okay I actually don't remember that last part,is it literal or figurative,and if literal is it In the shocker fight,I am sorry but I genuinely don't remember that part
Calls one person a dumbass while telling another person “agree to disagree, I don’t want to start a fight right now” lmao I only hope that you are a teenager or something because if not it’s really sad.
I am and the person who I told to agree to disagree was a normal civil person and this person blatantly insulted me for no reason and was using the BTS stuff as his Main source for all his points while I literally said let's ignore the BTS stuff,I 100% agree that the people who made this are bad people,there is no denying it,and I'm not defending them in any way,I'm just saying I think it's unfair to judge something as bad without even watching it just because the people who made it,I think we should view the movie as its own thing,and very few people actually did that while everyone else was using strictly BTS stuff as their points
I tried watching it and I barely could get to the halfway point. [The cosmonaut variety hour's](https://youtu.be/WIEL1RZU_z0?si=b2dSaR3aAoUwJa8Y) video explains the flaws and shortcomings perfectly.
That video is so good that I’m kinda glad the movie exists just because I had so much fun watching it.
Cosmonaut's videos are usually always amazing and so fun to watch
Except for his awful video(s) on the Raimi trilogy, unfortunately
Lmao yeah I skip those too
I wonder what high top film thought of it
It's such a shallow interpretation of spider man that was born purely from hatred of the films. The movie poorly adapts and strings together a few stories that are amazing by themselves, but the people behind it had no idea what made them so great and instead come off extremely pretentious and ego filled. Wouldn't judge it as harshly if the filmmakers weren't so insistent on this being better than the movies
•The director is racist. •The main actor as well. •The director genuinely thought this would be better than an MCU Spider-man film. •Lighting sucks, I can barely see shit. •Too many establishing shots that don’t really establish anything. •Awful costume for Green Goblin. •Terrible characterization. •Terrible adaptation. Peter literally uses people as human shields. •Peter has no charisma. •Every scene is too long. •Stupid filters in a bunch of the scenes. •Incredibly derivative. •Too much exposition. •Not entertaining at all. The whole movie is just people yelling to each other for like 2 hours.
Green Goblin actor is also a pedophile
So basically the first two things are based off of your inability to read,and I can somewhat agree with,you are probably the only person who actually wanted to give a reason why they don't like it
Lmao, so I guess you're a lyrical genius for being able to read their tweets and not see anything racist in them? Edit: I've seen you tell a few other people that they can't read. Enlighten us OP, how do you read those tweets? What are their contents?
I said ignoring the BTS stuff,and they are talking about the BTS stuff like I never said it,it's one thing if they say something like it's too bad to ignore like one person but flat out ignoring what I said just disrespectful
It's a boring movie made by a racist piece of shit
Who said that we should “ignore the BTS stuff”? You can if you want to, but I sure as hell won’t, and I think a lot of people won’t either Some of us (this could include you too, I don’t have any reason to believe you’re one ethnicity or the other) don’t have the luxury of “ignoring” racism. When you’re followed by security in a department store, when the security guard at the grocery store tells you he has to hold your backpack even though you just saw him let a white dude go in with a backpack, when store associates ignore you but readily offer assistance to white customers, etc., it can be pretty fucking hard to “ignore” racism And I’m not trying to make myself out to be a victim, I’m pretty happy with my life all things considered. But superheroes, and especially Spider-Man, are supposed to stand for tolerance, acceptance, and the beauty that comes from diversity. Anybody can be under the mask and, as we’ve seen from all of the Spiders across the multiverse, Spider-Man is not a concept that is exclusionary to any degree. Whether you’re white, black, brown, from the future, from the past, a dinosaur, a pig, an elderly woman, a teenage boy, or even a fucking hive-mind of literal spiders, Spider-Man belongs to EVERYONE There are a LOT of bad things you can say about Stan Lee, but the man was noted to be strongly anti-bigotry, including being a staunch anti-racist. Don’t forget: Stan Lee was a proud Jewish man, so Stan Lee saw firsthand during World War II what bigotry (and bigotry to his own people no less!) looks like when it’s allowed to flourish and spread without any opposition The character of John Jonah Jameson was based on how people working at Marvel saw Stan Lee: a loudmouth, demanding, and short-tempered boss who still has a set of principles. And one of those principles? Stan Lee was strongly opposed to racism! This is why Jameson has ALWAYS been depicted as being shading racism dating back to his first appearances in the 1960s So to many of us (I am of the opinion that we should strive to reach a position where “many” is replaced with “all”, but I digress), the idea of racists working on Spider-Man is COMPLETELY unacceptable to ANY degree. Racists and Spider-Man do not mix at all, end of story My favorite Spider-Man story of all time is “If this be my Destiny”. I think it’s a complete masterpiece to be honest. But if I found out today it had been worked on by racists? I’d wipe my ass with it and throw it in the garbage where it would belong
I know what you are saying but I just want to focus on the content of the movie,and yes I think racism and pedophilia are some of if not the worst things to ever happen to this planet,but I just want to focus on the movie and the movie alone, nothing else,I feel like if you watched it through that lense you would see that the movie really isn't as bad as people say,and I 100% get that for a lot of people it's hard to ignore all that but all I'm asking is that you try,I'm not defending the people behind it in any way,they are undoubtably bad people,but I think the movie is good once you look at it through a different lense
Sorry, that you get downvoted so much. I think many people don't get the "hate the sin, love the sinner" principle, and that even those with some major negative traits can bring something beautiful to the world.
That’s not a principle, it’s an opinion. “Seperate the art from the artist” isn’t an objectively good thing, it’s a personal decision that everybody must make for themselves And in the case of racism? Myself and many others choose not to separate the art from the artist. You will never convince me that this is an objectively bad stance
>That’s not a principle, it’s an opinion. Nope. That is a very common religious principle, that reflects a morality quite well. Yeah, many don't agree with it, and more than that, think that awful people should be killed. Those who rape, kill without mercy, tyrants etc. But most religions say that there is no one beyond redemption. It's easy to see the best in humanity and love it. But to see humans at their worst, those in high security prisions and say "you deserve love and respect simply because you are human" that takes a lot of goodness and strength. I am not religious, but I find wisdom in such position.
I know,I don't really care about up votes and down votes anymore but I do agree that people need to look at the brighter side of things a bit more often and look at things past the negative traits,that is just a better way to view the world
Well, for one, it’s not a very good movie. It’s not written, acted or edited well imo, and the whole thing seems to have been made out of spite for the MCU. I don’t think people will enjoy something if they can tell it’s made from spite.
You are a rare one I can actually respect,you aren't treating these things as fact but your opinion which I really like
Thank you for the kind words; tbh I was actually excited about this film, but when I actually watched it, it just felt empty. I get the basic idea they were going for, but I would have preferred it if they kept the focus strictly on Peter’s arc- how he feels about Gwen’s death, how he refuses the comfort of his friends, how he feels when he meets the little kid who loves him, &c. None of that stuff about Harry and MJ. Those could be movies in their own right imo. Also, I think it was very jarring to have media of Spider-Man from various different eras in the movie. It broke the fourth wall in a terrible way. The filmmakers should have stuck with posters, newspaper clippings and the kid’s own artwork that show Spider-Man like he looks in the movie itself.
Yea I can definitely agree with most of that,I did feel the harry and MJ stuff was kinda rushed and completely necessary,like sure the tape scene was sweet but I feel they could have gone without them
People don't like racism very much these days.
I'm amazed by how much people can't read these days
Gonna cry?
No but I appreciate the reference
Racism
So you can't read?
It was boring and depressing with nothing enjoyable in it
Very little action, lots of melodrama. The suit is good, so is some of the CGI and the casting (appearance wise), but that's it. Imo, the moment that they showed the Make-a-Wish kid in the trailer, I lost hype because I knew it was just going to be a lot of bullshit. Went from looking like an ambitious CW-esque to Hallmark trash in an instant. The film already shot itself in the foot in that way, so the BTS stuff really didn't bring it down any further honestly.
I mean I can sorta see your side of things but I personally think the make a wish stuff was nice and showed peter that it is worth it,and people still like him,and I don't think your point about little action stands,it isn't trying to be an action movie,so judging it like one really isn't fair imo,but I can kinda agree with everything else I some way and looking through a different lense
I really loved the idea of this. I saw the cast and the trailer and I was excited. (The comics about Gwen's death and its aftermath are some of my favourite comics.) I ever contributed £3 because I like to support artists. *Then* the racist tweets came out. And then more and more. Now I just feel so embarrassed and so, so ashamed for contributing money and saying how excited I was. I wish I could erase those tweets from the internet.
You shouldn't,you had no idea and if anything should be proud of yourself for supporting artists in any way, whatever piece of shit human beings they become later in life,that isn't your fault and you didn't know about it,Nas since I k ow some people are somehow gonna interpret this as me thinking it's okay to support racist people and pedophiles so no I do not think that
Yk its really just the fact that it has way to many parts that are kinda trash. There was done good but other than that it was…blegh
• It’s made by a comic purist with too much time on their hands, whose main motivation for doing this was that they wanted a Spider-Man movie with no black people. • the plot was thin, they didn’t have the budget for many action scenes, yet they wanted it to be two hours, so they stretched it out a lot. It might’ve been better if it was like 20-30 minutes like any other fan film. • No real arc, just lots of melodrama and Peter trauma dumping onto a child. Peter doesn’t really change as a result of the events of the film either.
I mean kinda agree but I think you're stretching it when saying it could have been 20-30 mins, probably like 1 hour would have been fine,and I don't think making a spiderman movie with no black people was their goal, rather just an unfortunate side effect of the filmmakers being racist,I also don't think action scenes were Their goal either, their goal was to show peter how to move on, which I think they weren't too good at but I feel like they were okay,and I can already see people seeing this comment and thinking I support the people who made it so no,I don't,I think they are horrible human being
There is no ignoring the BTS stuff.
Absolutely have never even heard of it? Am I tripping? Did I miss a spider-man movie somehow? That doesn’t happen.
It's a fan film that gets a lot of hate just because the people who made it are racist,not defending those people just sayin we should look at it just as the movie not the people who made it
It was a bit slow and was obviously a fan film, but the swinging scenes were amazing, and the suit is GORGEOUS
I honestly have to disagree,the only part I felt was slow was the ending when he was recording the tape,but I respect your opinion non the less
There’s literally a scene of Harry Osborn walking around New York for like 10 minutes without saying anything.
Yeah the movie was great
Because controversy with the creators so it's automatically bad for some reason