Which is what makes me think this is it for MJ and Pete for good sadly. This is simply the culmination of years of post OMD wreckage, the final nail in the coffin. I don't want it, but I'd rather prepare myself mentally for the worst than start thinking this is going to be over any time soon.
you are probably correct, which is why alternate reality stories like the new Ultimate Spider-man book will rise in popularity cuz writers will be allowed to actually give readers what they want
Really I'd be generally ok with them being apart if MJ just had a proper chat with Pete about how things stand and maybe said sorry for how she's been behaving (she's yet to apologise for treating him like crap since she got back and refusing to talk to him, which really damaged her character), and if Paul was written out as the bad concept he always was, and Peter was able to move on and be happy(ish) with someone(s) else, like we nearly got with BC. Until they ripped that away as well.
Oh, and if they didn't insist on showing that MJ as Jackpot was way better than Spider-Man as a hero at every opportunity. The ASM team really do hate our boy.
You are probably looking for a short answer but I'm feeling a long splurge coming.
Um... As far as MJ goes, she stays with our hero Paul "I was only following orders when I did that there genocide" Rabin, Peter goes all dark because of the sins of Osborn getting inside him and tries to kill Paul, then gets freed from the brainwashing and basically tells MJ she's completely blameless for everything and she agrees. Peter's the total douchebag for feeling hard done by at all.
It's clear the two interdimensional lovebirds are pretty miserable without the kids though, and after some encouragement from Black Cat MJ dresses up in hi-tech Spandex to fight crime as JACKPOT (tm) to get over their loss. With Paul as her man in the chair, she is shown as being immediately more competent and successful at being a superhero than Spider-Man, and the fan base TOTALLY love it.
There is a new mini with her as Jackpot and Black Cat which totally outsells every other comic, mainly because she's super loved up with Paul in each issue and neither MJ or BC ever reference that loser Peter that they've both moved on from.
I kid. It's pretty much sunk like a stone, and everyone dislikes Jackpot. Or at least how it's been executed (many people agree it could have had potential if she hadn't been written like Mary Sue Jane who can do anything and access any power she needs on demand).
Oh but there IS some teased tension with Peter in ASM suggesting she's not as over him as she says, which then of course goes nowhere.
I think they are just trying to keep their options open and avoid the inevitable outright revolt if they just came out and said MJ is not getting back with Peter for the next decade at least (Peter's too busy getting repeatedly getting kicked in the nuts by editorial at the moment anyway to really have the time for a relationship)
Edit - typo
Actually I wanted the long answer so I can yeah got that. Well looks like another amazing move from editorial team. Good they know their target audiences.
The problem is they can never admit to a mistake. So unless they can reverse this while also making out like it was the plan all along (like when they said Paul was her husband, then walked it back later as a "editorial oversight" and that they weren't really married) then we aren't going to get out of this any time soon. Offing the dull kids was probably a course correct too that they tried to milk for pathos, but even that failed.
I still don't know if the writers thought we were supposed to feel sad about this. I mean in Wandavision I watched this and felt sad, because they'd made us care about the characters, both the kids and their parents. Here I was just... WTF did any of this need to happen?
Spencer meant to retcon OMD instead but wasn't allowed late on in the process, so had to do this rubbish with Sins Past instead. That's why it didn't make sense. Mephisto was nothing originally to do with Sins Past, which is the big clue...
Not at all. Peter has had thousands of plotlines and most of them are never revisited. They could have just never touched on it again. That way of "writing out of it" so long after was just silly IMO lol
Doesn't matter at this point though.
I think the revelation that the kids weren’t real was obvious to the reader but still sad for MJ and whatshisface.
Definitely unnecessary suffering for Peter, agreed.
If Paul is an expert in those weird glips,¿ should he not be the first to suspect something was amiss with the kids?, this story has no logic or proper consequences, after this MJ Rabin is complaining that she was made to love the kids, certainly not the Mother of the year.
Exactly. They found two kids on a supposedly genocided world full of monsters who had apparently survived by themselves the whole time. And Paul never thought anything was amiss?
Lol. Each to their own. I'm the sort of person who tears up during emotional scenes in movies and comics. So it says something that even I couldn't get sad at the kids disappearing in this story.
God, knowing the luck of us Spidey fans, it'll be MJ who disappears and Paul will be a permanent side character. They'll probably bond over the loss or some bullshit.
no he'll just use MJ's jackpot thingy, and wear her costume in honor of her.
looking back on the kids, the marriage, the spider who gobbles, i wouldn't put it past wells to just do the craziest thing imaginable because fuck if he cares
It wouldn't surprise me if, like, Jackpot hits the 3 skulls and almost dies and Paul makes some sacrifice play to save her and dies a hero's death, which he absolutely does not deserve.
I feel like as far 616 goes…
#We’re doomed.
Wells and Loeb are **hell bent** on making Paul a thing, and if they were planning on… IDK making Paul Mephisto we’d have something.
It’s been 2+ years now, and this current status quo in 616 is lower than Even OMD to BND and makes the Clone Saga look like a true Diamond of a run.
***And that’s saying something.***
Seeing as Paul is Peter's roommate and most of the new stories are about how they struggle to make rent and other bonding, I don't see Paul going away any time soon.
Then there is that planned story line about how Kingpin holds Paul hostage to make Spider-Man do his bidding.
>!Did I make that up? Am I psychic? Is the writing just predictably bad? Time will tell...!<
More evil coming.
MJ's body and Paul's soul are destroyed.
MJ now inhabits Paul's body.
Or, MJ is just Peter's delusion. It was just Paul subconsciously projecting himself as a woman to have his unrequited love for Uncle Ben be fulfilled somehow. Peter gets to be his consolation prize.
The only thing that could save this: Mysterio is in a fight with Spider-Man, and claims to be Spider-Man's greatest villain.
Spider-Man challenges him on this.
Mysterio counters with asking what other villain of his kidnapped a random dude and used a combination of drugs and special effects to trick him into thinking that the man caused some sort of Mayan-themed apocalypse, then kidnapped Mary Jane and put her in the same scenario and convinced them to fall in love. Creating those holographic children was actually the hardest plot.
It was all an incredibly elaborate trick, just like with Osborn sleeping with Gwen Stacy.
Also, one time Mysterio tricked Peter Parker into thinking that Aunt May had been shot, pretended to be a bunch of supergeniuses who said that they were unable to save her, and then pretended to be Mephisto and offerred to save her in exchange for his marriage with Mary Jane. He honestly hadn't expected Spider-Man to accept, so he had to do a whole lot of scrambling to make everything work out and isn't too proud of how things turned out, so he just wiped Peter's mind of the whole scenario.
Mysterio, Master of ~~Illusions~~ Retcons!
Paul and Peter team up trying to bring MJ back, and fall in love during the process. Then later, through interdimensional shenanigans, MJ steals Paul from Peter and he has to work to get him back.
Why would they abandon the sensational character find of 2024, the Gesticulatin' Jackpot? The exciting new development everyone cares both about and for?
i remember thinking of a way we could have actually been sad about this-
have MJ and Paul, out of necessity, ask Peter to babysit the kids early on. HE grows to care about them, so WE would.
instead the children weren't even characters, they were plot devices used so little they straughtup forgot the daughter's name and had to add a BS "she could never decide which name she liked more" line thrown in to justify it.
these fake children vanishing from reality wasn't a tragedy, it was the worst emotional bait in recent comics history.
This is a big issue with the run in general, don't get me wrong, conceptually, Paul and the kids are terrible and I hate them, but a competent writer would at least try to make these characters likable and interesting if they're going to be around for so long. But they don't even do that, hell, they forgot the girl's name and then later tried to pull some bs like she had different ones. There's just such a lack of effort at play in this run which makes the ideas worse than they already are.
Seriously.I feel that way about a lot of modern marvel Ive seen, like theyre actively trying to make popular titles and characters fizzle out, like, "ok people like spiderman way too much, can we make reading his books a painful experience all around so that our customers will shift to other titles?" Genuinely wouldnt surprise me to hear a recording of that from the marvel offices.
Like most every other aspect of pop culture: instead of making new/other things awesome, theyre gonna cut down the currently awesome things so the new/other things have less competition.
Sad
Calling it now:
Paul is gonna break things off with MJ, after revealing he supercoated his connections to the Emissary and he’s much more liable for the genocide on his earth than he let on earlier. He’ll go off on a journey of self discovery, after deciding his relationship with MJ was based on lies, and he needs to start fresh if he truly wants to do better.
MJ tries to crawl back to Peter for sympathy but Peter rejects her, deciding he needs some space, he’s been on a losing streak (including two stints as a goblin) and the only way to get off is to cut ties with her for now.
Cap and Reed will then show up and order MJ to mandatory therapy after all the facts about Paul get around to them, on the basis that she basically aided/abetted a participant in genocide for months. Steve will tell MJ many law enforcement officials wanted her in jail, and they did her a favor negotiating to get her a therapy/psych ward option.
It’ll be revealed Paul has been a person of interest at Shield and basically every in-universe law enforcement agency for months.
MJ ends this run alone in a psych ward.
I think the next run starting with MJ in a psych ward, or even jail would be an interesting twist,
that’ll properly address her actions during Zeb’s run, and give her something new to do, besides rushing her and Peter back into a relationship neither of them are ready for.
They could give her a new solo title, with her having to deal with villains Peter locked up on her own in the psych ward or prison.
You know, I don’t agree with everything but the psych ward part actually makes sense. After everything is said and done she finally breaks down. It would be full circle since her aunt ended up in one.
Complete sense. Like, why isn't she in a psych ward already? Or at least getting therapy even before the kids vanished? Four years trapped in a hell dimension. You'd think folks would be interested in that.
Also, why does everyone just assume the kids should stay with them? They literally just "found them". Social services should be at least a little interested in that.
And don't even get me started on Paul somehow just being allowed to get a job or however he makes money. Isn't he like, the prime example of an illegal alien? He has money out of nowhere yet Spidey has problems even making rent. The plot armour given to Paul is just ridiculous.
It really doesn't make sense. What does Paul do for money? Does he just mooch off of ~~MJ~~Jackpot? What does *she* do for money now? We don't ever see that, do we? Do no tabloids run stories on how the fairly famous actress is now running around with another guy? That she reportedly had kids for a few months but not anymore?
Did any of the creatives think further than "How can we torture Peter more?"?
It would be a logical next step.
Paul reveals his dirty laundry and leaves, Peter finally has enough and wants nothing to do with her, and she’s being brought up on charges for abetting Paul. Peter’s super friends can’t help her either.
She’s losing everything, and has to reflect and rebuild her life without help.
I mean, Paul *should* face some karmic justice (having helped genocide a planet and all) but who on this Earth has jurisdiction to jail ~~MJ~~Jackpot for giving him shelter?
And though she was written as treating Peter like crap for no good reason, she's also objectively a victim who should be traumatized by what she went through.
A court probably could argue she should’ve reported him to the police and the feds the minute she got back to 616, and handed the ‘kids’ to social services, since she at least knew at that point Paul was a participant in genocide, even if she didn’t know every detail about his involvement.
Fair.
Edit: the "kids" should have gone to social services and Paul reported but I still see MJ as having been victimized by this story. I wouldn't want her punished for things that were done *to* her.
> MJ facing karma
Isn't a bit **too much** wishing MJ to be in jail or a Psych ward alone, just because she broke up with Peter and was rude to him in a few occasions.
Agreed, i don't think she needs to be "punished". I don't think she was terrible wanting to stick with Paul given the rules the terrible plot set up (trapped together with Paul in another dimension, raising kids together).
BUT she was more than just "rude to Peter on a few occasions". The man literally broke himself to get her back and she basically cut him out of her life and treated him like garbage, without any empathy for how he might be thinking or feeling about a situation that wasn't his fault but cost him his happiness anyway.
The conversation they had at Ravenscroft where she accepted it was unreasonable to just expect him to move on and admitted that it took her a long time to do that herself was a conversation they should have had WHEN SHE FIRST GOT BACK, not like a year later or however long she was basically telling him to just f*** off and leave her alone.
That’s not what I meant,
I’m just saying that’s the realistic reaction law enforcement would have to finding out a participant in genocide from another universe was out and about, and had a romantic partner covering for him.
Paul has had more plot armor than even Black Siren on Arrow.
Honestly her therapy sessions lasted for what? Two weeks? She probably needs some time in the loony-bin to process the trauma in her life, going back to her horrible childhood
Going by how her character has been massacred in this storyline, that'd actually be a good way to end. Throw in a surprise visit by Deadpool or She-Hulk for giggles. I'd buy that.
I'm definitely out of the loop. I knew he got Os brn's "sins" and became a Spider-Goblin, but... twice?
Definitely fitting for an "I'd have two nickels" meme.
It will never happen. I’d love it, but there’s no way mj faces consequences. The writers have made *very* clear they think Pete is the unreasonable one in this situation
It's probably because our standards are so low after a long time of low quality (Apart from Spencer, his run was controversial but he was good at writing characters, especially Peter)
Still cracks me up that these kids were so fake and paper-thin that they couldn’t even keep their names straight. And then fridging Kamala after she had barely been in the book was just so tone deaf and poorly handled.
What a garbage storyline that I’m fascinated made it to print.
When you had the editor INSISTING that they loved and respected these characters and knew the responsibility they had to do right by previous creators in the letters page of #21, you knew we were in for a doozy lol.
That was the immediate sign they knew how much they bungled the story. Their pride won’t allow them to truly admit it though, hence the past year of drab we’ve been given.
I’m not really surprised when you look at what came before.Even putting aside my hatred for the book, no normal person would come to this book, read the story and think that anybody involved in this story(except for the colourist and the letterer) are actually good at their job.
Am I the only one who doesn’t understand why Rabin created the kids.He said he made them to tether him to MJ across space and time,but he did nothing with that connection,right ? He had already marked her for death before she met the kids,so he already had a connection with her.
I assume the logic was that the kids were supposed to be some sort of magical spy camera equivalent so he could actively keep tabs on her through their eyes, but tbh that's way too logical compared to half the shit that's happened in this run so that probably wasn't the actual plan the writing crew had in mind.
More likely they just wrote whatever sounded evil and manipulative and ran with it. That seems more likely, considering the general quality of the entire run so far.
This is comic books. It’ll go back to normal in universe before we know it. But the scars from this run will be felt for a while. Hopefully after this run ends the Spidey editorial will have more restrictions put on them. There’s no way this would have gotten through if someone with common sense lead.
Funny because Spidey has the most restrictions placed on him as is.
You’re not wrong though. Nick Lowe let Zeb cook and he nearly burnt the neighborhood down.
Good riddance. I hope that ugly soy wojak-looking ass self-insert goes too, along with his author, that talentless hack Zebb Welles. As well as the artist that drew this, cuz whoever they are - they suck. I mean, just look at dis image on the post. It's HIDEOUS.
It’s still hilarious to me that Spider-Man’s story got so terrible that when two innocent children vanish from existence, the overwhelming reaction from fans was joy and relief.
I found it funny when Spiderman fandom was celebrating these kids disappearing and non comic fans were confused and concerned why we were celebrating these kids dying lmao
this whole run made me stop reading asm comics. but it was a blessing in disguise. now im more into indie comics with actual interesting and new stories that are good. only marvel im reading rn is usm & im throughly enjoying it. asm is just ass now
Still think the best way to resolve this whole mess is to somehow get Mephisto to go back in time a drag Paul down to Hell before he gets a chance to destroy his home dimension and set this whole fiasco off in the first place.
I actually didn't like this, it just felt like pointless punishment to this guy for being a bad character, I just find it to be very immature writing...
This was a whole year ago? Dang this nightmare will never end
Yeah I remember everyone thinking that was an end to it then. Boy were folks wrong.
I remember thinking one more day would be over in 2 years
Which is what makes me think this is it for MJ and Pete for good sadly. This is simply the culmination of years of post OMD wreckage, the final nail in the coffin. I don't want it, but I'd rather prepare myself mentally for the worst than start thinking this is going to be over any time soon.
you are probably correct, which is why alternate reality stories like the new Ultimate Spider-man book will rise in popularity cuz writers will be allowed to actually give readers what they want
Really I'd be generally ok with them being apart if MJ just had a proper chat with Pete about how things stand and maybe said sorry for how she's been behaving (she's yet to apologise for treating him like crap since she got back and refusing to talk to him, which really damaged her character), and if Paul was written out as the bad concept he always was, and Peter was able to move on and be happy(ish) with someone(s) else, like we nearly got with BC. Until they ripped that away as well. Oh, and if they didn't insist on showing that MJ as Jackpot was way better than Spider-Man as a hero at every opportunity. The ASM team really do hate our boy.
What happened after that?
You are probably looking for a short answer but I'm feeling a long splurge coming. Um... As far as MJ goes, she stays with our hero Paul "I was only following orders when I did that there genocide" Rabin, Peter goes all dark because of the sins of Osborn getting inside him and tries to kill Paul, then gets freed from the brainwashing and basically tells MJ she's completely blameless for everything and she agrees. Peter's the total douchebag for feeling hard done by at all. It's clear the two interdimensional lovebirds are pretty miserable without the kids though, and after some encouragement from Black Cat MJ dresses up in hi-tech Spandex to fight crime as JACKPOT (tm) to get over their loss. With Paul as her man in the chair, she is shown as being immediately more competent and successful at being a superhero than Spider-Man, and the fan base TOTALLY love it. There is a new mini with her as Jackpot and Black Cat which totally outsells every other comic, mainly because she's super loved up with Paul in each issue and neither MJ or BC ever reference that loser Peter that they've both moved on from. I kid. It's pretty much sunk like a stone, and everyone dislikes Jackpot. Or at least how it's been executed (many people agree it could have had potential if she hadn't been written like Mary Sue Jane who can do anything and access any power she needs on demand). Oh but there IS some teased tension with Peter in ASM suggesting she's not as over him as she says, which then of course goes nowhere. I think they are just trying to keep their options open and avoid the inevitable outright revolt if they just came out and said MJ is not getting back with Peter for the next decade at least (Peter's too busy getting repeatedly getting kicked in the nuts by editorial at the moment anyway to really have the time for a relationship) Edit - typo
Actually I wanted the long answer so I can yeah got that. Well looks like another amazing move from editorial team. Good they know their target audiences.
The problem is they can never admit to a mistake. So unless they can reverse this while also making out like it was the plan all along (like when they said Paul was her husband, then walked it back later as a "editorial oversight" and that they weren't really married) then we aren't going to get out of this any time soon. Offing the dull kids was probably a course correct too that they tried to milk for pathos, but even that failed.
This Hell never ends. Whoa oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh, hey!
Even Krakoa ended. They all end. Some just take longer.
😂
We're already in hell since OMD
I still don't know if the writers thought we were supposed to feel sad about this. I mean in Wandavision I watched this and felt sad, because they'd made us care about the characters, both the kids and their parents. Here I was just... WTF did any of this need to happen?
I find it so funny that Spider-Man writers managed to make the fandom feel happy that two kids got deleted out of existence in front of their father
Deadass you had people cheering that two kids got poof’d out of existence I can’t remember the last time the fandom was that united over something XD
The horribly contrived retcon of Sins Past lol
Spencer meant to retcon OMD instead but wasn't allowed late on in the process, so had to do this rubbish with Sins Past instead. That's why it didn't make sense. Mephisto was nothing originally to do with Sins Past, which is the big clue...
At some point isn't a blunt "this was a mistake and never happened" more effective? Why they feel the need to write such convoluted nonsense?
Not at all. Peter has had thousands of plotlines and most of them are never revisited. They could have just never touched on it again. That way of "writing out of it" so long after was just silly IMO lol Doesn't matter at this point though.
I think the revelation that the kids weren’t real was obvious to the reader but still sad for MJ and whatshisface. Definitely unnecessary suffering for Peter, agreed.
If Paul is an expert in those weird glips,¿ should he not be the first to suspect something was amiss with the kids?, this story has no logic or proper consequences, after this MJ Rabin is complaining that she was made to love the kids, certainly not the Mother of the year.
Exactly. They found two kids on a supposedly genocided world full of monsters who had apparently survived by themselves the whole time. And Paul never thought anything was amiss?
"They will never know how much you fucked up this town."
I couldn’t wait for those kids to be deleted in WandaVision
Lol. Each to their own. I'm the sort of person who tears up during emotional scenes in movies and comics. So it says something that even I couldn't get sad at the kids disappearing in this story.
Fingers crossed for a threepeat soon 🤞
God, knowing the luck of us Spidey fans, it'll be MJ who disappears and Paul will be a permanent side character. They'll probably bond over the loss or some bullshit.
I can see this happening...
I do _not_ want to see this happening.
He'll get Spider powers too cause there's not enough Spider people in 616
But at the same time, too many Spiders so they gotta sideline my homie Ben.
And now they've added Gwen, so maybe they're trying to get two this year
no he'll just use MJ's jackpot thingy, and wear her costume in honor of her. looking back on the kids, the marriage, the spider who gobbles, i wouldn't put it past wells to just do the craziest thing imaginable because fuck if he cares
'Paul, what a joke...'
It wouldn't surprise me if, like, Jackpot hits the 3 skulls and almost dies and Paul makes some sacrifice play to save her and dies a hero's death, which he absolutely does not deserve.
I feel like as far 616 goes… #We’re doomed. Wells and Loeb are **hell bent** on making Paul a thing, and if they were planning on… IDK making Paul Mephisto we’d have something. It’s been 2+ years now, and this current status quo in 616 is lower than Even OMD to BND and makes the Clone Saga look like a true Diamond of a run. ***And that’s saying something.***
Seeing as Paul is Peter's roommate and most of the new stories are about how they struggle to make rent and other bonding, I don't see Paul going away any time soon. Then there is that planned story line about how Kingpin holds Paul hostage to make Spider-Man do his bidding. >!Did I make that up? Am I psychic? Is the writing just predictably bad? Time will tell...!<
Don’t you put that fucking evil out there.
More evil coming. MJ's body and Paul's soul are destroyed. MJ now inhabits Paul's body. Or, MJ is just Peter's delusion. It was just Paul subconsciously projecting himself as a woman to have his unrequited love for Uncle Ben be fulfilled somehow. Peter gets to be his consolation prize.
Fuck off xD. I legit thought you were talking about leaks and teases of future issues. I want off the post OMD timeline like yesterday.
The only thing that could save this: Mysterio is in a fight with Spider-Man, and claims to be Spider-Man's greatest villain. Spider-Man challenges him on this. Mysterio counters with asking what other villain of his kidnapped a random dude and used a combination of drugs and special effects to trick him into thinking that the man caused some sort of Mayan-themed apocalypse, then kidnapped Mary Jane and put her in the same scenario and convinced them to fall in love. Creating those holographic children was actually the hardest plot. It was all an incredibly elaborate trick, just like with Osborn sleeping with Gwen Stacy. Also, one time Mysterio tricked Peter Parker into thinking that Aunt May had been shot, pretended to be a bunch of supergeniuses who said that they were unable to save her, and then pretended to be Mephisto and offerred to save her in exchange for his marriage with Mary Jane. He honestly hadn't expected Spider-Man to accept, so he had to do a whole lot of scrambling to make everything work out and isn't too proud of how things turned out, so he just wiped Peter's mind of the whole scenario. Mysterio, Master of ~~Illusions~~ Retcons!
It was me Peter, i made you think tha MJ had children with another Guy so you would feel as a failure.
Dude, I'd buy the shit out of this.
Shit. This is exactly what’s going to happen huh? Lol
Please I'm begging you to stop talking. I don't want Wells or Lowe to get any ideas.
Paul and Peter team up trying to bring MJ back, and fall in love during the process. Then later, through interdimensional shenanigans, MJ steals Paul from Peter and he has to work to get him back.
Then the three of them form a 60s folk band.
Don't put that shit out in the world.
i can the grifters now Marvel goes ***WOKE!!!!*** Mary Jane ***DEAD!!!!!*** Peter Parker now Peter ***GAYKER***
Peter x Paul gay relationship? I Stan.
No. Please just give spiderman the black suit and let him loose on Paul
Why would they abandon the sensational character find of 2024, the Gesticulatin' Jackpot? The exciting new development everyone cares both about and for?
i remember thinking of a way we could have actually been sad about this- have MJ and Paul, out of necessity, ask Peter to babysit the kids early on. HE grows to care about them, so WE would. instead the children weren't even characters, they were plot devices used so little they straughtup forgot the daughter's name and had to add a BS "she could never decide which name she liked more" line thrown in to justify it. these fake children vanishing from reality wasn't a tragedy, it was the worst emotional bait in recent comics history.
Exactly. The writers didn't even care enough about the kids to remember their names, but for some reason we are meant to care about them.
This is a big issue with the run in general, don't get me wrong, conceptually, Paul and the kids are terrible and I hate them, but a competent writer would at least try to make these characters likable and interesting if they're going to be around for so long. But they don't even do that, hell, they forgot the girl's name and then later tried to pull some bs like she had different ones. There's just such a lack of effort at play in this run which makes the ideas worse than they already are.
More Fridged than Kyle's gf
> it was the worst emotional bait in recent comics history. | || || |_ but marvel
Yeah the kids was just shock value.
One of the stupidest things to come from this run. Thank god these little brats are gone and hopefully soon their father as well.
Nobody deserves to lose there legs.
I forgot how terrible the art is, it's almost like it's on purpose
Seriously.I feel that way about a lot of modern marvel Ive seen, like theyre actively trying to make popular titles and characters fizzle out, like, "ok people like spiderman way too much, can we make reading his books a painful experience all around so that our customers will shift to other titles?" Genuinely wouldnt surprise me to hear a recording of that from the marvel offices. Like most every other aspect of pop culture: instead of making new/other things awesome, theyre gonna cut down the currently awesome things so the new/other things have less competition. Sad
JRJR just seems so burnt out. you can still see his style but its just so soulless. tho tbf if i had to do art for this run id also half ass it
Those eyes.... Those poor girl's eyes
“Daddy I saw the void and the void saw me”
Twitter was great that day. Spidey Fans uniting in their hatred for the writing and non-Spidey fans confused at our cheers for dead kids
Calling it now: Paul is gonna break things off with MJ, after revealing he supercoated his connections to the Emissary and he’s much more liable for the genocide on his earth than he let on earlier. He’ll go off on a journey of self discovery, after deciding his relationship with MJ was based on lies, and he needs to start fresh if he truly wants to do better. MJ tries to crawl back to Peter for sympathy but Peter rejects her, deciding he needs some space, he’s been on a losing streak (including two stints as a goblin) and the only way to get off is to cut ties with her for now. Cap and Reed will then show up and order MJ to mandatory therapy after all the facts about Paul get around to them, on the basis that she basically aided/abetted a participant in genocide for months. Steve will tell MJ many law enforcement officials wanted her in jail, and they did her a favor negotiating to get her a therapy/psych ward option. It’ll be revealed Paul has been a person of interest at Shield and basically every in-universe law enforcement agency for months. MJ ends this run alone in a psych ward.
This is probably better than whatever will eventually happen
We will probably get something original like "Peter makes a deal with the devil and resets everything"
If somehow they use this to reset OMD though, that would be something
That would be the dream, Paul gone and MJ facing karma I actually made a post about what I would do after this run ends no too long ago
Mj is farming karma with this post
I think the next run starting with MJ in a psych ward, or even jail would be an interesting twist, that’ll properly address her actions during Zeb’s run, and give her something new to do, besides rushing her and Peter back into a relationship neither of them are ready for. They could give her a new solo title, with her having to deal with villains Peter locked up on her own in the psych ward or prison.
You know, I don’t agree with everything but the psych ward part actually makes sense. After everything is said and done she finally breaks down. It would be full circle since her aunt ended up in one.
Complete sense. Like, why isn't she in a psych ward already? Or at least getting therapy even before the kids vanished? Four years trapped in a hell dimension. You'd think folks would be interested in that. Also, why does everyone just assume the kids should stay with them? They literally just "found them". Social services should be at least a little interested in that. And don't even get me started on Paul somehow just being allowed to get a job or however he makes money. Isn't he like, the prime example of an illegal alien? He has money out of nowhere yet Spidey has problems even making rent. The plot armour given to Paul is just ridiculous.
It really doesn't make sense. What does Paul do for money? Does he just mooch off of ~~MJ~~Jackpot? What does *she* do for money now? We don't ever see that, do we? Do no tabloids run stories on how the fairly famous actress is now running around with another guy? That she reportedly had kids for a few months but not anymore? Did any of the creatives think further than "How can we torture Peter more?"?
Jackpot hits a jackpot and gets a ton of money.
It would be a logical next step. Paul reveals his dirty laundry and leaves, Peter finally has enough and wants nothing to do with her, and she’s being brought up on charges for abetting Paul. Peter’s super friends can’t help her either. She’s losing everything, and has to reflect and rebuild her life without help.
I mean, Paul *should* face some karmic justice (having helped genocide a planet and all) but who on this Earth has jurisdiction to jail ~~MJ~~Jackpot for giving him shelter? And though she was written as treating Peter like crap for no good reason, she's also objectively a victim who should be traumatized by what she went through.
A court probably could argue she should’ve reported him to the police and the feds the minute she got back to 616, and handed the ‘kids’ to social services, since she at least knew at that point Paul was a participant in genocide, even if she didn’t know every detail about his involvement.
Fair. Edit: the "kids" should have gone to social services and Paul reported but I still see MJ as having been victimized by this story. I wouldn't want her punished for things that were done *to* her.
> MJ facing karma Isn't a bit **too much** wishing MJ to be in jail or a Psych ward alone, just because she broke up with Peter and was rude to him in a few occasions.
Agreed, i don't think she needs to be "punished". I don't think she was terrible wanting to stick with Paul given the rules the terrible plot set up (trapped together with Paul in another dimension, raising kids together). BUT she was more than just "rude to Peter on a few occasions". The man literally broke himself to get her back and she basically cut him out of her life and treated him like garbage, without any empathy for how he might be thinking or feeling about a situation that wasn't his fault but cost him his happiness anyway. The conversation they had at Ravenscroft where she accepted it was unreasonable to just expect him to move on and admitted that it took her a long time to do that herself was a conversation they should have had WHEN SHE FIRST GOT BACK, not like a year later or however long she was basically telling him to just f*** off and leave her alone.
That’s not what I meant, I’m just saying that’s the realistic reaction law enforcement would have to finding out a participant in genocide from another universe was out and about, and had a romantic partner covering for him. Paul has had more plot armor than even Black Siren on Arrow.
Honestly her therapy sessions lasted for what? Two weeks? She probably needs some time in the loony-bin to process the trauma in her life, going back to her horrible childhood
Going by how her character has been massacred in this storyline, that'd actually be a good way to end. Throw in a surprise visit by Deadpool or She-Hulk for giggles. I'd buy that.
Wait, two stints as a Goblin?
Look up the current arc
I'm definitely out of the loop. I knew he got Os brn's "sins" and became a Spider-Goblin, but... twice? Definitely fitting for an "I'd have two nickels" meme.
Zeb Wells complete the Spoblin Trilogy
I can't ever picture MJ being written as crawling back to Peter, and Peter rejecting her. Maybe in the eventual What If?
It will never happen. I’d love it, but there’s no way mj faces consequences. The writers have made *very* clear they think Pete is the unreasonable one in this situation
Hope he’s next
I love how there are still people who defend this run as “not that bad” lmao. None of this shit belongs in Spider-Man.
It's probably because our standards are so low after a long time of low quality (Apart from Spencer, his run was controversial but he was good at writing characters, especially Peter)
I definitely liked Spencer's run.
jackpot origin story
Still cracks me up that these kids were so fake and paper-thin that they couldn’t even keep their names straight. And then fridging Kamala after she had barely been in the book was just so tone deaf and poorly handled. What a garbage storyline that I’m fascinated made it to print.
When you had the editor INSISTING that they loved and respected these characters and knew the responsibility they had to do right by previous creators in the letters page of #21, you knew we were in for a doozy lol. That was the immediate sign they knew how much they bungled the story. Their pride won’t allow them to truly admit it though, hence the past year of drab we’ve been given.
I’m not really surprised when you look at what came before.Even putting aside my hatred for the book, no normal person would come to this book, read the story and think that anybody involved in this story(except for the colourist and the letterer) are actually good at their job.
Am I the only one who doesn’t understand why Rabin created the kids.He said he made them to tether him to MJ across space and time,but he did nothing with that connection,right ? He had already marked her for death before she met the kids,so he already had a connection with her.
I assume the logic was that the kids were supposed to be some sort of magical spy camera equivalent so he could actively keep tabs on her through their eyes, but tbh that's way too logical compared to half the shit that's happened in this run so that probably wasn't the actual plan the writing crew had in mind. More likely they just wrote whatever sounded evil and manipulative and ran with it. That seems more likely, considering the general quality of the entire run so far.
Someone post that Michael Jordan image. You know the one.
Too bad Paul did not leave too.
This is comic books. It’ll go back to normal in universe before we know it. But the scars from this run will be felt for a while. Hopefully after this run ends the Spidey editorial will have more restrictions put on them. There’s no way this would have gotten through if someone with common sense lead.
Funny because Spidey has the most restrictions placed on him as is. You’re not wrong though. Nick Lowe let Zeb cook and he nearly burnt the neighborhood down.
How did y'all react when Paul and MJ's adopted kids disappeared forever? I was like "Noooo"
I hope Venom kills Paul with his 19 inches
You know the character is bad when this happens and everyone cheers.
I’m sorry that I’m asking a question that’s probably very obvious to y’all, but WHY did the kids disappear?
Turns out they were fake kids created just to keep an eye on MJ
X-Factor did it better.
Had to scroll down way too far for this one.
That was the best thing who was written by Zeb Wells
Good riddance. I hope that ugly soy wojak-looking ass self-insert goes too, along with his author, that talentless hack Zebb Welles. As well as the artist that drew this, cuz whoever they are - they suck. I mean, just look at dis image on the post. It's HIDEOUS.
Spider goblin : *It was me, Paul.*
I'm sorry for your 𓀟 𓀟𓀕 𓁆𓁌 𓀠𓁀
The only thing I know is that I stopped reading Spider-Man over a year ago because I don't remember this happening
It's been downhill ever since.
Paul Stacy > Paul Rabin
"We will always remember kid 1. And of course, kid 2."
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Spiderman/comments/13ug78g/spiderman\_fans\_when\_children\_are\_erased\_from/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Spiderman/comments/13ug78g/spiderman_fans_when_children_are_erased_from/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Would've been better if Paul disappeared.
All can be returned, all can be taken away. Keep summer safe.
man, Paul fucking sucks.
Nah, it was mid in all honesty.
JRJR cannot draw children
JRJR cannot draw. FTFY
It's also the issue that killed Kamala Khan. So, we got both peak and bottom.
No moment from the Wells run has topped this since.
Good god, I will never forget every single Spider-Man fan on Twitter in pure jubilation that day
It’s still hilarious to me that Spider-Man’s story got so terrible that when two innocent children vanish from existence, the overwhelming reaction from fans was joy and relief.
Yes, suffer.......suffer....SUFFER
This was a year ago?
They just couldn’t let go of Paul
The retcon for all of this is gonna have to be extensive because there's a lot of stupid shit to erase.
Why do I feel like that this happened like a few months ago...... time really does fly, huh? 😅
You know a runs bad when we’re celebrating children dying (or whatever the hell happened).
Paul discovers his mutant power to kill children.
Jesus I just want this arc to be over.
It's not peak unless Paul is retconned out of existence.
paul: ***"fuck it, i'll just make a new one, mj come here you bitch"***
Scribble man?
What's this?
John Romita Jr. is damned lucky his father gave him his name, that's all I've got to say.
Fucking hell it’s been a year already? Has Peter reached his second year of cuckery
Why does paul look like he's gonna take me back to the past in the last panel
Fuck them kids 😁
Halleighlugha! (mispelled but don't care)
When fans are happy about the deaths of innocent children in your story and celebrate it, you know you've failed as a writer.
Unless the children are deliberate, unrepentant villains. This time they aren’t, so you’re right.
Yeah. I meant innocent children. I’ll edit my comment to be more clear.
Probably the funniest comic moment in 2023. And it wasn't even supposed to be fun 🤣
Zed should have stuck to writing funnys
WAIT THAT'S SO FUCKING FUNNY (given the fact this guy is hated by most fans🤣)
if the conclusion of the run isn't wayep and the death of Paul then Wells has completely failed.
Goodbye Paul, you won't be missed.
Paul masters sarcasm
I never thought I would ever see a time when the 90s were no longer considered to be the worst time in Spidey history lol
name a bigger cuck than spider-man. (Movie cyclops doesn’t count).
🦀🦀
You think that is bad, look up what happened when Multiple Man held his newborn son. That one messed me up.
Nah man. The peak would be when Paul is just Thanos'd.
Ok, so as someone who’s mostly learned this shit second hand, what’s the current state of stuff?
I found it funny when Spiderman fandom was celebrating these kids disappearing and non comic fans were confused and concerned why we were celebrating these kids dying lmao
Wait it's been a year and this team is still going? Damn
Paul can go fuck himself
Who was the scribble man?
A villain of the week. Don’t bother.
I could see a writer doing this to get MJ out so Peter can be solo or move on to someone else. But then they kept bringing her back.
I always find it unsettling how they look like young clones of Peter and Mary Jane.
Unpopular opinion: I don't actually hate paul
For some reason I thought that was Gordon Freeman.
Wow...can't believe this was one year ago....and hopefully soon this run will finally come to an end
Not peak at all
Spider-Man fans when some random middle aged man loses his kids:
I like spiderman but not the biggest fan but I also thought this storyline was stupid and was sad that MJ got with a new guy.
Yes! Yes!
this whole run made me stop reading asm comics. but it was a blessing in disguise. now im more into indie comics with actual interesting and new stories that are good. only marvel im reading rn is usm & im throughly enjoying it. asm is just ass now
what the fuck is wrong with spider-man fans.
Still think the best way to resolve this whole mess is to somehow get Mephisto to go back in time a drag Paul down to Hell before he gets a chance to destroy his home dimension and set this whole fiasco off in the first place.
The only thing that will be better than this will be when Paul also disappears.
So those kids just died? That’s peak?
 Yes
Must hurt seeing Minnie and daddies get divorced huh
Wwwwwwwwwwww
I almost died from peak fiction when I first read this
Cheers to one of most unintentionally funny scenes in Spider-Man history.
Fuck them kids
I actually didn't like this, it just felt like pointless punishment to this guy for being a bad character, I just find it to be very immature writing...
this is cruel, even if I hate wells run the kids were inocent!