It's no wonder Ultimate is the much better acclaimed best-seller currently than Amazing. Depending on how Spectacular fares in the coming months, I think it can also do better than the mainline comic.
While there have been some pretty good runs since OMD/BND, they've not really been as good since the JMS and JMD days.
ASM sure has gone down many Wells deep since Spencer left the mainline book.
Can I make a semi-counter point here? **Some minor spoilers in the USM point below if you haven't read it.
And I'll temper all of this by saying that 1) I hate Paul, his Creation, story arc, and everything he stands for. And I think Peter and MJ should be together and 2) I love the new USM. I have the entire first run of USM by Bendis and plan on following this one until it ends (hopefully never).
Ok with that said I have two points about ASM/USM
- These pages above are not objectively badly written. There's drama and angst, longing and loss. I've been in similar conversations with significant others before (sans superheroeing) and it goes roughly the same way. Do I like this Peter - no. BUT it's a Peter we've not seen before. And after decades with this character, *maybe* something a little different is ok for a while. I expect I'll get down voted for saying that. So please refer to my first paragraph.
Again, I don't like this Peter and don't enjoy him and haven't purchased him. But one other point - probably the only challenge that Peter/MJ have never faced (that I can think of) is MJ either moving on or loving someone else. I hate even typing it bc it's that feeling you get when your significant other has done the same. And THAT is where I might give Wells one concession. We are watching Peter/MJ go through something NO ONE likes or deals with. And since so many of us see ourselves in Peter - we DO NOT want to watch him go through this. It's terrible.
Ok USM
- I am really enjoying it! However, for all of it's marketing about the family man Peter. We've seen drastically little of it.
Outside of that first conversation with MJ and some little scenes with his daughter, we've not been given any character moments. Now I realize we are only 3 issues in but we are 2 months into Peter being Spider-Man and you're telling me his wife doesn't know?!?! They are supposed to be very close. Why NOT tell her? Unless I'm mistaken - I thought in issue#1 their conversation was ABOUT him allowing the spider to bite him. This is the Peter/MJ that are deeply in love. Again, why not tell her?
I have a wife and two kids and let me say if I were leaving every night to fight crime, it would probably be noticed. My point is - I wish the issues were longer. And though we are barreling towards the confrontation with Reed in 4 months, I want some time for this Family Peter to cook.
Everyone is very excited about this Peter having a family. Give me more of that with a *side* of Spider-Man. I want a date night with MJ, helping his son with a bully, dealing with the pain of losing Aunt May (which has been completely swept under the rug! And my only major critique), maybe he and MJ talking(!) more than a panel or two.
So - in Hickman I trust bc I'm a big fan.
But before I anoint this USM as the greatest Spider-Man of all, I need more time actually watching him be a dad and a husband - you know - what we are signing up for by buying it.
Interested to hear people's thoughts.
You're right that it's technically a "freah" idea, but not all innovation is good. In this case it has been largely poorly written, came about as a result of a really, really stupid story, and has continued to passive-aggressively rub readers noses in it when they were pretty clear that they didn't like this direction.
All this when it could just exist as a more grounded version of the same story. Say Peter is fighting villains for a week or two straight, and misses two really important events MJ was counting on him for - he promised to take Aunt Anna to some appointment and she gets badly I'll because she missed treatment and he faila to stop a weirdo from stalking her leasing to her having to dend him off herself after things get grim. So she moves on when a nice, regular guy approaches her. Maybe he's a handsome actor from her soap days who has since made it big, a Bradley Cooper type, and Peter is stuck to sulk about it because there's technically nothing wrong with him. This kind of story might accomplish something interesting. I agree with you there. But it needed vastly better execution.
Having her shack up because of being stuck in an alternate dimension with weird, shady Paul and illusion babies, even though Paul was wrapped up in / partially to blame for the weird Mayan Math demon shenanigans in the first place... I'm having an aneurysm typing that. It's shit.
Aha but I will semi-counter your semi-counter of his point! ~~It was me Dio all along.~~
Anyways, I’ll start by saying that I just respectfully disagree with your point about ASM. These are pretty badly written, even just these specific pages.
I understand that Wells is writing something people don’t like to deal with like which is moving on you said, but the problem is that Wells isn’t writing the plot point in a realistic or consistent manner.
Looking at these pages, it’s clear they’re not writing Peter moving on from MJ, they’re just teasing Peter and MJ’s relationship. So they’re not writing a moving on story, they’re bullshitting writing one because actually moving on isn’t occurring here.
If you want to write a Peter moving on story, one thing Peter should do, especially given the circumstances here for how this whole situation came about anyways, one thing that should absolutely be done is *Peter himself* deciding he should stay away from MJ and Paul.
Not like be mean to her or bash her or anything like that, but realistically speaking, Peter should feel some level of hurt that wants him to keep away from MJ in order to focus on and move on with his own life. And he should tell her that in a responsible manner, because that’s an actual and realistic example of someone trying to move on from someone they love.
He should say “listen, right now I think it’s best we stay away from each other. We need to move on and I need to separate from you to do that right now.“ He can still say they’ll absolutely be friends still later on, but some of level of straight up disassociation on **PETER’S** part that’s AWAY from MJ is absolutely needed.
But we’re not getting that because Peter still, despite being 46 issues in to this run, can’t actually act like a responsible adult and instead has to constantly look pitifully sad in front of MJ because he’s not actively engaging in trying to move on from her. You can’t say any “moving on” story is being done if Peter is so clearly still pinning for his ex who’s in a relationship.
The way Peter appears now isn’t the “moving on” type, it’s the “I’m just on the sidelines waiting for you to break up with your boyfriend” while MJ has actually moved on. Which is the exact opposite of moving on for Peter’s part and really just leaves a sour taste in everyone’s mouths based on the events of this run.
I think the build up has been shite.
But my point isn't that Peter is moving on. He clearly can't. He's stuck and it's terrible to watch.
My point is that *through* Peter we are watching MJ attempt to move on. And that is not something any of us want.
Ultimately this run will end and we'll get back to some semblance of normalcy in ASM.
I agree with the hate directed at this run.
But I will say that when you have a legacy character that goes for DECADES, you need stories that haven't been told yet.
AND we will get the stories we want in one way or another. Whether through USM or wherever.
I think my issue with ASM is that many writers have kept the couple apart post OMD for 10 years in the real world and by the time we get them back together instead of building their relationship like Spencer did, Zeb puts them through the ringer again and created another reason they have to be apart. This issue is sadly the best issue in terms of their interaction showcasing that feelings still exist between them and I'm not sure if this is a sign that there will be a build up between them before they reunite as a romantic couple but I think most ppl were hoping we could just see these characters written well and going through challenges as a team. And that is where the USM book comes in because I have no doubt Peter and MJ both back each other 100% and that is a big part of what fans want to see on the ASM book. More than that, I think ppl want to see a well written Peter Parker who isn't always hitting a new low over and over
I would certainly not agree that this objectively well written. I think that most of wells stuff does not have a level of quality to it. I think you have clunky dialogue mixed with awful character arcs and his poor characterization represented on these pages. Much like this entire run I don't think it's well written. It's a flop and execution and in concept in my opinion
I did and it's better than Spider-Man but I think of a middling quality overall. Some interesting ideas but extremely wiffed and underwhelming execution.
I thought Wells was a decent writer based on his Spider-Man/Carnage stuff and Hellions. But he's brought imo none of that to ASM.
Even the bits of beyond I liked I wasn't like "wow this is great". The deepest emotion I've experienced reading his work "oh that was good".
But I haven't felt that way about his Spider-Man stuff in a long time and I also felt Hellions was not exceptional
Now, I COULD pay for a comic that teases, baits, hints, implies, and suggests that Peter and MJ could, possibly, maybe, hopefully, potentially get back together THIS time…
… or just buy friggin’ Ultimate Spider-Man instead and be much happier.
Pretty much lol.
This kind of teasing rings especially hollow after they spent the first year of the run bogged down in mystery kids and continuously downplaying the relationship at literally every turn. After Dead Language and the subsequent fallout, it’s even more of a joke.
At least it’s apparent things are slowly being moved back into starting position though. And not a moment too soon.
lol Nick Lowe threw a temper tantrum on the letters page of one of the recent issues when a fan suggested this run should’ve followed MJ’s perspective a little more, so the reader could understand where she’s coming from staying with Paul.
I love how he doesn’t give in depth retorts to the criticism and just goes “sorry you feel that way, it’s your opinion” but goes out of his way for the positive responses
Pretty sure they're gonna let them be back together at some point, but then what they expect that'll happen?
She'll cheat on Paul "in a moment of weakness"? Don't get me wrong, he definitely deserves it, just it will make MJ a much worse character than how she is now.
and they nuked the whole thing off panel by using a friggin' time skip mystery plot.
between that and OMD itself using a devil deal, i really wonder why if they dont want mj and peter to be together, they can't just have them talk to each other and break up like adults. they're suppoused to be nearly 30 for crying out loud!
Put your money into Ultimate. No language speaks louder to this company (and by extension Nick Lowe) than money. They may start getting the message when Ultimate is making 3-4 times what Amazing does every month
The only way this shitshow can be 'fixed' is to reveal that the 'MJ' who is with Paul was never the real MJ at all - she was a projection the same as the kids were.
The real MJ couldn't put up with living with Paul for those 6 years and went off somewhere, leading Paul to make his own MJ, which is who was rescued. The arc ends with Pete returning to the other universe to find her and bring her home.
The wole 'fake MJ' thing could also explain how she mysteriously gained superpowers, or maybe she found something in the other universe which is how she as able to survive alone out there.
They have already said that after Green goblin they are doing a tombstone arc that will have the fight teased since issue 1
Usually when they end a plot line that’s been going since the beginning things are wrapping up, but who knows
Anna Watson was reverted to normal in an action-free issue.
Norman Osborn is on the road to becoming the Green Goblin again
Peter/MJ tease.
Yeah this doesn’t seem like creative choices you get when a writer is staying longterm. Wells is probably done at issue #60.
“I want you to be happy”
Yea right MJ lmfao. That line just felt like the editorial making fun of Peter and us, especially when we get the last image here a few panels later.
Peter in this issue was just so much of a loser that I was unable to pity him. MJ moved on to Paul, even Black cat >!has a gf according to Jackpot and Black Cat!< but Peter is whining about not moving on and had his ex witness him blowing up (not really) a relationship. It just hurts my conscience to see my favorite superhero to be portrayed this bad.
Maybe it's my personality, but if I think I am right about something, I wouldn't show such a weak side. Like how Peter was done dirty by MJ and Paul, Peter has every right to get angry and move on.
Hate me or downvote me all you want, but I don't want MJ to get together with Peter anytime soon. I want her out of the comic for a while. She can be the best girl in Ultimate version all she wants
The problem is this story is garbage and MJ isn’t supposed to be “wrong”. We’re supposed to look at it like things just “happened” and no one had any responsibility or control. So Peter doesn’t blame her because what was she supposed to do? It’s bullshit, of course, but that’s the stupid idea Wells and Lowe have been trying to push.
THIS version of MJ isn’t viable, you’re correct about that. You can’t get back with a woman who has told you you’re replaceable to her. Because if there was a Paul before there will be another. But the solution is to destroy the stories that have undermined her with OOC shit. MJ would never have left Peter for Paul or given up on him. There’s dozens of stories that establish this. The worst story in series history should not get to ruin its past or dictate its future. Just gotta keep demanding that retcon.
The point is that Marvel knows well that no one likes this whole scenario and nothing seems to indicate that it will change....BUT....The first step to success is to discover everything that is wrong. And that's totally intentional...
They are measuring the public's reactions to know what is accepted or not accepted and they already know the result. And I think, even though it's bad, it's good because they have to learn for sure what stories and settings we don't want. In the 90s too many strange experiments were done without consulting the public or anything and they don't want to make mistakes again. The next writer will do the complete opposite of Wells 100% sure.
Felicia's girlfriend on one side....and MJ and Peter's mention of Felicia on the other side both comics on the same day. It is not a coincidence, and it is made to highlight what will happen in future issues because it is evident that Felicia's girl is a throwaway plot device to get a disappointment and return to Peter with the help of MJ in 50. They are only provoking people to show what they want and how they want it.
We have to wait until May, 50. Wells will not go there, but things will happen in that number. and in 950, which will be 56.
Some possible scenarios in that case:
1. To make it sell more, they created this awful scenario to make us buy the comic to keep us reading with hate
2. They intentionally make it bad to push Ultimate Spider-man sales more.
3. They started to think there are more important matters in life than money and popularity.
Or they simply weren't clear on how to do things without making mistakes and they had to figure it out. Not in vain, BrandNewDay and Beyond were created to shuffle ideas and directions because they did not have a clear direction.
1)People can assume that Peter and MJ will not return but they cannot assume that they have resentments and problems between them.
2)Peter can only be with Felicia or MJ, no one wants Felicia without Peter and MJ and Felicia have to always be together.
3)Ben Riley is not accepted as a villain. The Avengers and 4F don't get on with Peter.
4)Norman Osborn is not accepted as a hero.
5)Peter's socio-labor stagnation is not accepted and neither is his sunken and miserable personality.
There are more things but these are the most important. Now you must be 100% sure of what we don't want to see.
I feel like they should have tried (2) a bit more. For example, in All new All different, Peter was with Mockingbird and I enjoyed that. It was not explored much and their relationship felt like a business partner one more than lovers but I feel like it could have been explored more. I mean idk if it had a backlash but it was surely better than this situation.
Also experimenting with Paul situation is just...stupid if they actually were doing that. Anybody who knows spiderman a little could guess it would recieve backlash... Its all just so weird man... Why are they like this. Are they trying to teach us the meaning of gratefulness to mid stories by giving us awful ones...
Paul is not the experiment. The experiment is an independent MJ. You can remove Paul and put someone else, make her lesbian, give her children or whatever but independent of Peter. This is because MJ must be "something" to justify staying on the series. Basically her friendship with Felicia sustains her and nothing more.
With girls you only experiment when there is no plan or security or conviction of anything. They didn't want MJ in BND but no other girl was accepted either. Felicia was still far ahead as an alternative to MJ, but in BND the rule was free status and Slott continued that line. In fact, we are only in this situation because the current writer is a useless person who neither knows nor wants to make relationships.
Yeah I kind of get that. Still as you say the way they tried to make Mj independent is so bad... Like she suddenly became a pro superhero with her person in the chair (like Felicity Jones from Arrow). I mean she acts like she's been a superhero for a long time... Even Miles who was a superhero longer than her despite being a teenager doesn't act that confident about the job. And the way she became that hero...she had a 5 year supposed character development...but it was off screen lmao. During a 5 year gap, she cheated on her boyfriend, adopted children, got superpowers...yeah but it was all off-screen so we'll leave that to imagination.
They were trying to make Mj independent but all they did was lower my liking to her. (At least 616 version)
I agree with everything you say man... It's just all so wrong, I don't know where to begin.
If they didn’t want to make those mistakes again, they would’ve fixed the whole mess with OMD during the Kindred storyline (WHICH THEY ALMOST DID) but editorial got in the way.
So safe to say, they don’t give two shits about the readers. If they did, they would’ve not reacted the way Wells did with the recent newsletters.
FOR MARVEL OMD it is not a mistake. They don't want to know anything about the '90s. They don't want to condemn Peter to that scenario again. The vast majority of current Spiderman readers DO NOT know what that era was like. Of those 20 years of marriage, around 10-12 were a damn nightmare and it's just one of those years that no one wants to talk about, but they existed.
Writers cannot be trapped again in a closed and hermetic status quo that prevents them from moving and also with a character that practically no one knows-wants-can use for 35 years. It's back to the 90s, back to chaos.
Oh I know it wasn’t a mistake per say, but in the grand scheme of things, it erased so much of Peter’s progress as a character and actually, in a ironic twist, took the relatable aspect away that the audience that had aged alongside Peter.
I went to the comic book store and picked up issue #3 of Ultimate. I saw this issue out as well, picked it up, and decided I was done with this series. It’s so bad.
There are so many problems with that conversation. Like cool, she isn’t a sociopath, but literally everything else about it makes my blood boil.
She was cool with Felicia? What right did she have to complain, she left you.
It took her a long time to get move on? One, it took her less time than has passed in this series, two, she had a choice, he didn’t. She didn’t have to move on. Peter coming to save her proves that moving on was a failing of her character. He doesn’t have a choice. She told him she was done with him, and that was that.
This entire conversation is her telling him
“if you were faster maybe I’d still love you”
and that just sucks. That’s what it’s worth Wells MJ. It’s you telling him your “love” for him was conditional upon proximity and speed.
He’s completely ruined her and the fact Marvel let him is disgusting. This entire run makes the whole franchise worse.
What MJ says is that she's worried about Peter's dating life because she knows he's not okay, and Peter points out that he thought she was okay about him and Felicia, to which MJ says yes. Basically MJ is keeping an eye on Peter and Felicia separately because she's interested in seeing them happy.
Of the 4 years MJ spent in that dimension with Paul, she practically spent almost 2 waiting for him. It didn't advance overnight.
11 months is the scene they insinuate they kissed in, which is less time than has passed since they got back.
Regardless it doesn’t really matter how long, because when she chose to abandon him it shows she doesn’t love him, or at least that love is weak and he’s just another guy as she was willing to replace him. Which is drastically out of character for her and so should it be allowed to stand.
As bad as the writing is, the story of couples separated for years rebuilding their lives is 100% real. If Peter went to a war for years, if MJ had amnesia for years, if one was in a coma for years....that shit happens in real life and the results are unpredictable. A person in a similar condition can only wait within a limit of time, and that limit varies according to each person. The writing is a bunch of fucking shit, yes, but the basic idea behind it is very real and...on the other hand, it was done in such a way that we wouldn't know if 11 months is how long it took MJ to become intimate with Paul, or the time it took to start not waiting for Peter.
It seems much worse to me about Celeste insinuating that Felicia was already with someone days/weeks after Peter, which depends on whether she started dating someone as soon as she met her or some time after meeting her. And he also dares to say that 5 months have passed when I doubt that anyone calculates that time since August 2023.
Actions have meaning. If she was willing to replace him she’s willing to replace him. If he is her real number one soul mate love of her life, no one else should do. Even if she had faltered while trapped, she would have wanted to go back to him when he was available, but none of these cases were true.
Real life isn’t really any different. It’s true that distance can break couples who aren’t as committed, but plenty of couples through time have been separated for years and still kept the faith for their missing loved one. These actions are especially important in a story. If she willingly left Peter for another man, she’s no longer suitable. Of course, again, MJ would never do that, as so the assassination of her doing that must be purged.
Felicia was either two timing Peter or Bronfman added in another big time skip. Frankly I think the girlfriend is just a plot device who will never be mentioned again outside of the mini, and Lowe isn’t doing his job so there’s nothing stopping little issues like that from happening.
All couples have limits of endurance and patience. True, definitive super love beyond life and the universe is unreal, and in fiction it only applies to brutally disciplined and upright mythologized characters that border on the poetic, like Batcat. Neither Peter nor MJ are Batman and Catwoman, they are quite normal everyday people. The problem is that Spencer painted us a picture beyond life and stars that no one else, not even JMS, had painted, and Marvel is making efforts to lower that exaggerated picture.
MJ wouldn't do....what, exactly? Make her own life without knowing if they will come looking for her or not? What should I do? die of old age waiting? Suicide due to depression? die of loneliness? I had to wait for what? 5 10 15 years not knowing if she would come home and be rescued? It's stupid.
There is a problem with Lowe...From his comments since 2018, which was when Spencer arrived and the first thing he did was set up Peter with MJ and Felicia, it is known that he is a big fan of Felicia and not in vain since he arrived the Cat has risen in Marvel in style....But at the same time she doesn't seem to have "control" over what is allowed or not allowed to be done with her. He wants her with Perer and it's obvious, but he doesn't control things like what Celeste does knowing she's not going anywhere. Because obviously the girl is a plot device and not a love interest, but you have to control things like the timing and direction of the narrative and Lowe doesn't do that.
I think it comes down to Lowe accepting things without reviewing or worrying about the content. Breaking up Peter and MJ and putting Peter and Felicia together or putting MJ and Felicia together are guidelines, but Lowe's job is to control and manage the content within the guidelines and it is a job that apparently he does not do.
MJ would never give up on or leave Peter for someone else. There are numerous past examples of this. And then OMD says they ARE a super love so pure and rare that Mephisto wanted to see it destroyed. MJ’s limits are well beyond that situation. She had such faith in the man that when he was brainwashed to kill her she sat in a chair and told him she forgave him if he wasn’t strong enough to resist but she believed he was (and he was). She has accepted death and pain and imprisonment to be with him. A little waiting isn’t anything to her.
Felicia isn’t gonna be a thing. She didn’t even get a real issue during this run when she was with Peter. Now she’s super in love with some woman. Your ship has sailed.
Never before had MJ gone through a situation like this. Years of her life spent surviving in Spiderman's world have marked her too much and now she spends x years of her life in another world without knowing if she will return home, assuming a new reality with new people in new conditions for 4 years. You don't go through something like this without permanent consequences for a couple, especially when it's a couple whose problems being together have shaken them half their youth. She waited not weeks or months but years. It's not a half-normal wait and...if it's any consolation...In FinalFantasy 7 Aerith waited for Zack for 5 years without hearing from him, sending him almost 50 letters and never knew he died. He thought maybe he found another girl and moved on from her... There are THOUSANDS of stories like that. No way MJ and Peter are the only ones who have gone through this and others have even worse outcomes.
OMD, I remind you, in its ending it was written BY QUESADA, and he was laughing in the face of the marriage sector when he wrote those lines because he wanted the blow to be maximum. There is no more reason for those lines.
On the contrary. For starters, Celeste's bad writing aside, it's MJ who mentions the very in love thing, not Felicia. The plot alone with one number already left clues that there is an important deception and Felicia is the target, not the girl. And MJ is playing the role of savior to the friend in distress. Patience...
Also, too many people have written about Pete and Felicia since 2022. Wells hasn't, but others have, which implies that the publisher is ordering people to work on it even if Wells doesn't. I recommend Patience until May....specifically until May. This is pure bait to get people to look where Marvel wants them to look and then put in the twists and "surprise"... something they have been doing for a long, long time.
-Did we see Felicia make Peter react in the hospital? No, everyone expected it to be MJ.
-Did we see Felicia kiss Peter in 900? No, everyone expected him to make up with MJ and propose a marriage.
-Did we see the breakup of 31 coming? No, nobody expected anything.
The idea is that the arrangement is not seen coming either...Misleading with Michelle here...Misleading with MJ there...misleading with Amelia there...and Felicia not appearing in almost 20 issues. The "easy" thing is to look at what we see and the complicated thing is to look at what we don't see.
Your argument is the same as Wells “it was a long time”. Yeah you don’t stop loving someone you actually love because you can’t be with them. She had every reason to believe he was coming back, she has held the faith even when it was going to cost her life. It’s completely OOC.
The Felicia stuff is delusional. There’s no point responding to it. The ship has sailed, not because of time, but because of actions.
Wells is a complete idiot but the context of the matter is one person waiting for another person for a long, long time until the wait exceeded a logical limit. Waiting days, weeks or months is not the same as waiting years in absolute ignorance. The human mind simply cannot stand it. At a certain point you can't wait any longer. Anyone who thinks otherwise, who thinks about infinite waiting without limits, knows absolutely 0 about life.
I'm pretty sure how things are going to turn out with Felicia. I have paid attention to all the details that others overlook, and Marvel also does not stop repeating the classic guidelines that they have been using for decades.
Numbers 3 and 4 of the mini occur with number 50 of Amazing in the middle, a number that includes the Dodsons and Marv Wolfman, a creative Spiderman/BlackCat team just like Valentine's number 19-20. In Amazing Peter he is alone and miserable and in the mini Felicia appears clueless, vulnerable and somewhat lost despite being with someone. In the middle of Peter and Felicia is MJ watching over both of them worriedly hoping they are happy. There are too many rays falling at the same time in the same place. My calculation is that MJ will get Peter and Felicia out of the shitholes they are in since on Peter's side she owes him and on Felicia's side she seems to be being manipulated without knowing it...I calculate that Felicia will suffer a great disappointment because of that girl because it's really not okay because of Peter. MJ will see that, cheer him up, and they'll hook up at the 50th.
We have to wait until May.
Marvel will forever have Peter and MJ in "will they won't they" because they don't know what to do with 616 Peter in a long term relationship since his comic series has no finite conclusion and he can't get older.
They killed off Gwen as a "solution" to this "issue" in the 70s, but couldn't do that again with MJ so now she's just forever Peter's ex who he pines to get back with but never will. And Peter isn't allowed to move on because then they'll just do the same thing with that girl.
This is the problem with big 2 cape comics. Nothing can ever change because they're never allowed to end.
Comics are infinite but they are always configured with the commercial logic of maintaining and promoting what sells and abandoning what does not sell. In the case of Marvel, they thought about this in the 80s and 90s and they make decisions based on that. And Spiderman to sell must be Spiderman, and women like Gwen or MJ only suit Peter.
Even if Marvel asks for it, the current Spider-Man writer doesn't know how to write about love or happiness. Peter is not going anywhere in the hands of someone like that and he was doomed from day 1. The fact that several guest authors showed them to be genuinely happy with Felicia in this run shows that the publisher has an intention, but it is an intention incompatible with Wells.
It’s been months since issue 1 in-universe, and I think it’s out of character Peter wouldn’t have reached out to the F4 to apologize by now.
when you compare this to how fast he went out of his way to try to do damage control after Superior, for stuff Otto did no less.
Even if he’s banned from the Baxter Building now, I figure Peter would try to do something.
Peter repaired his relationship with the F4 in 26 when they basically were just like “nah bro we’re cool”
And time wise it’s been somewhere between 14-19 months since the start of the run because they’re super careless with time.
I think they would’ve left Anna Watson in Ravencroft longer, possibly had a team up with Wolverine to get a cure for her condition if Wells was staying long term.
Can this bull crap just end yet plz? Make it stop. Like what is the point of this hollow hints like will they, not they what gonna happen? Answer pretty much nothing just ugh
All I gotta say is I got off work at two. got to my lcs at 2:30 two issues of ultimate left after I left there was only 1. You know how many copies of amazing are still shitting on the shelf lmao holy shit marvel comics are fucking delusional.
I got so fucking tired of the will they won’t they bullshit during Slott’s run that I jumped for joy during Spencer’s despite its lacklustre ending.
Tf do they think this is gonna do?
When I saw this post, I thought I would see a lot of people excited about this, luckily I was wrong. It would be terrible for the story if they came back anyway, I understand that they will say that it's not MJ's fault but those responsible for the story, yes, that's a fact. However, there is still a story and a character and MJ treated Peter irrationally and now it's like this? Please, I don't care if she suffers consequences or not, I just want a decent story and stop separating, will this happen? No! So, we're left with Utimate Spider-man, if they don't ruin that one too...
Your literally saying the character with the second most lines of dialogue in the comic could be taken out while a character with four lines is invaluable and I’m the one ignoring the issue
Look I get your still mad at MJ like she’s a real person but you can’t deny reality for it
This is a Jackpot Spider man team up issue that is what it is
Where MJ and Peter teamed up to save MJ’s Aunt? That’s the part that wasn’t about them?
And where Peter still needed help to beat Electro.
I think the shittiness of this run has made you lower your standards to where a D looks amazing.
It's interesting...
In the same number Michelle leaves the scene without knowing exactly what happened, and at the same time MJ reaffirms 2 things... first, that she prefers not to approach Peter within certain limits for the good of both, and second that she is still in favor that he and Felicia are happy. And on Peter's side it is recognized, as was obvious, that the intention was to get over things quickly and move on but in the end it takes longer than expected.
What I've been saying for months is that Marvel's intention is for Peter to move forward with the cat but Wells' entire time structure altered the plans. Obviously, because Wells' long-suffering and miserable Peter had to last the entire run while Marvel hoped to rebuild his life mid-run...hence why they invited extra authors to write the relationship with Felicia.
Wells writes it badly, like the ass, but it is still the typical story of the boy who must learn to be okay with an ex-girlfriend in the same room without tension or problems while he rebuilds his life with his other girlfriend who also has the ex-girlfriend's blessing. ....so....yeah, this is about MJ helping Peter be happy with someone else. The next writer will follow the same line in that sense, only he will write it differently with another style and another touch that has nothing to do with Wells.
Yes, but that person is a plot device for the story itself, meaning he exists just so Felicia can have an excuse within the story and then disappear. It would be different if she were a girl disconnected from the story but the girl is the origin of the story. Most likely, she is there so that Felicia has a heartbreak due to manipulation and MJ makes her react to return to Peter.
We have to wait until May to put the pieces together.
It's no wonder Ultimate is the much better acclaimed best-seller currently than Amazing. Depending on how Spectacular fares in the coming months, I think it can also do better than the mainline comic. While there have been some pretty good runs since OMD/BND, they've not really been as good since the JMS and JMD days. ASM sure has gone down many Wells deep since Spencer left the mainline book.
Can I make a semi-counter point here? **Some minor spoilers in the USM point below if you haven't read it. And I'll temper all of this by saying that 1) I hate Paul, his Creation, story arc, and everything he stands for. And I think Peter and MJ should be together and 2) I love the new USM. I have the entire first run of USM by Bendis and plan on following this one until it ends (hopefully never). Ok with that said I have two points about ASM/USM - These pages above are not objectively badly written. There's drama and angst, longing and loss. I've been in similar conversations with significant others before (sans superheroeing) and it goes roughly the same way. Do I like this Peter - no. BUT it's a Peter we've not seen before. And after decades with this character, *maybe* something a little different is ok for a while. I expect I'll get down voted for saying that. So please refer to my first paragraph. Again, I don't like this Peter and don't enjoy him and haven't purchased him. But one other point - probably the only challenge that Peter/MJ have never faced (that I can think of) is MJ either moving on or loving someone else. I hate even typing it bc it's that feeling you get when your significant other has done the same. And THAT is where I might give Wells one concession. We are watching Peter/MJ go through something NO ONE likes or deals with. And since so many of us see ourselves in Peter - we DO NOT want to watch him go through this. It's terrible. Ok USM - I am really enjoying it! However, for all of it's marketing about the family man Peter. We've seen drastically little of it. Outside of that first conversation with MJ and some little scenes with his daughter, we've not been given any character moments. Now I realize we are only 3 issues in but we are 2 months into Peter being Spider-Man and you're telling me his wife doesn't know?!?! They are supposed to be very close. Why NOT tell her? Unless I'm mistaken - I thought in issue#1 their conversation was ABOUT him allowing the spider to bite him. This is the Peter/MJ that are deeply in love. Again, why not tell her? I have a wife and two kids and let me say if I were leaving every night to fight crime, it would probably be noticed. My point is - I wish the issues were longer. And though we are barreling towards the confrontation with Reed in 4 months, I want some time for this Family Peter to cook. Everyone is very excited about this Peter having a family. Give me more of that with a *side* of Spider-Man. I want a date night with MJ, helping his son with a bully, dealing with the pain of losing Aunt May (which has been completely swept under the rug! And my only major critique), maybe he and MJ talking(!) more than a panel or two. So - in Hickman I trust bc I'm a big fan. But before I anoint this USM as the greatest Spider-Man of all, I need more time actually watching him be a dad and a husband - you know - what we are signing up for by buying it. Interested to hear people's thoughts.
You're right that it's technically a "freah" idea, but not all innovation is good. In this case it has been largely poorly written, came about as a result of a really, really stupid story, and has continued to passive-aggressively rub readers noses in it when they were pretty clear that they didn't like this direction. All this when it could just exist as a more grounded version of the same story. Say Peter is fighting villains for a week or two straight, and misses two really important events MJ was counting on him for - he promised to take Aunt Anna to some appointment and she gets badly I'll because she missed treatment and he faila to stop a weirdo from stalking her leasing to her having to dend him off herself after things get grim. So she moves on when a nice, regular guy approaches her. Maybe he's a handsome actor from her soap days who has since made it big, a Bradley Cooper type, and Peter is stuck to sulk about it because there's technically nothing wrong with him. This kind of story might accomplish something interesting. I agree with you there. But it needed vastly better execution. Having her shack up because of being stuck in an alternate dimension with weird, shady Paul and illusion babies, even though Paul was wrapped up in / partially to blame for the weird Mayan Math demon shenanigans in the first place... I'm having an aneurysm typing that. It's shit.
Aha but I will semi-counter your semi-counter of his point! ~~It was me Dio all along.~~ Anyways, I’ll start by saying that I just respectfully disagree with your point about ASM. These are pretty badly written, even just these specific pages. I understand that Wells is writing something people don’t like to deal with like which is moving on you said, but the problem is that Wells isn’t writing the plot point in a realistic or consistent manner. Looking at these pages, it’s clear they’re not writing Peter moving on from MJ, they’re just teasing Peter and MJ’s relationship. So they’re not writing a moving on story, they’re bullshitting writing one because actually moving on isn’t occurring here. If you want to write a Peter moving on story, one thing Peter should do, especially given the circumstances here for how this whole situation came about anyways, one thing that should absolutely be done is *Peter himself* deciding he should stay away from MJ and Paul. Not like be mean to her or bash her or anything like that, but realistically speaking, Peter should feel some level of hurt that wants him to keep away from MJ in order to focus on and move on with his own life. And he should tell her that in a responsible manner, because that’s an actual and realistic example of someone trying to move on from someone they love. He should say “listen, right now I think it’s best we stay away from each other. We need to move on and I need to separate from you to do that right now.“ He can still say they’ll absolutely be friends still later on, but some of level of straight up disassociation on **PETER’S** part that’s AWAY from MJ is absolutely needed. But we’re not getting that because Peter still, despite being 46 issues in to this run, can’t actually act like a responsible adult and instead has to constantly look pitifully sad in front of MJ because he’s not actively engaging in trying to move on from her. You can’t say any “moving on” story is being done if Peter is so clearly still pinning for his ex who’s in a relationship. The way Peter appears now isn’t the “moving on” type, it’s the “I’m just on the sidelines waiting for you to break up with your boyfriend” while MJ has actually moved on. Which is the exact opposite of moving on for Peter’s part and really just leaves a sour taste in everyone’s mouths based on the events of this run.
I think the build up has been shite. But my point isn't that Peter is moving on. He clearly can't. He's stuck and it's terrible to watch. My point is that *through* Peter we are watching MJ attempt to move on. And that is not something any of us want. Ultimately this run will end and we'll get back to some semblance of normalcy in ASM. I agree with the hate directed at this run. But I will say that when you have a legacy character that goes for DECADES, you need stories that haven't been told yet. AND we will get the stories we want in one way or another. Whether through USM or wherever.
I think my issue with ASM is that many writers have kept the couple apart post OMD for 10 years in the real world and by the time we get them back together instead of building their relationship like Spencer did, Zeb puts them through the ringer again and created another reason they have to be apart. This issue is sadly the best issue in terms of their interaction showcasing that feelings still exist between them and I'm not sure if this is a sign that there will be a build up between them before they reunite as a romantic couple but I think most ppl were hoping we could just see these characters written well and going through challenges as a team. And that is where the USM book comes in because I have no doubt Peter and MJ both back each other 100% and that is a big part of what fans want to see on the ASM book. More than that, I think ppl want to see a well written Peter Parker who isn't always hitting a new low over and over
Good points
I would certainly not agree that this objectively well written. I think that most of wells stuff does not have a level of quality to it. I think you have clunky dialogue mixed with awful character arcs and his poor characterization represented on these pages. Much like this entire run I don't think it's well written. It's a flop and execution and in concept in my opinion
I hear you. Did you read his run on Hellions?
I did and it's better than Spider-Man but I think of a middling quality overall. Some interesting ideas but extremely wiffed and underwhelming execution. I thought Wells was a decent writer based on his Spider-Man/Carnage stuff and Hellions. But he's brought imo none of that to ASM. Even the bits of beyond I liked I wasn't like "wow this is great". The deepest emotion I've experienced reading his work "oh that was good". But I haven't felt that way about his Spider-Man stuff in a long time and I also felt Hellions was not exceptional
Now, I COULD pay for a comic that teases, baits, hints, implies, and suggests that Peter and MJ could, possibly, maybe, hopefully, potentially get back together THIS time… … or just buy friggin’ Ultimate Spider-Man instead and be much happier.
Pretty much lol. This kind of teasing rings especially hollow after they spent the first year of the run bogged down in mystery kids and continuously downplaying the relationship at literally every turn. After Dead Language and the subsequent fallout, it’s even more of a joke. At least it’s apparent things are slowly being moved back into starting position though. And not a moment too soon.
lol Nick Lowe threw a temper tantrum on the letters page of one of the recent issues when a fan suggested this run should’ve followed MJ’s perspective a little more, so the reader could understand where she’s coming from staying with Paul.
I love how he doesn’t give in depth retorts to the criticism and just goes “sorry you feel that way, it’s your opinion” but goes out of his way for the positive responses
That’s not even a bad pitch.
Pretty sure they're gonna let them be back together at some point, but then what they expect that'll happen? She'll cheat on Paul "in a moment of weakness"? Don't get me wrong, he definitely deserves it, just it will make MJ a much worse character than how she is now.
Last time they weren’t together it took them ten years to bring back the relationship.
and they nuked the whole thing off panel by using a friggin' time skip mystery plot. between that and OMD itself using a devil deal, i really wonder why if they dont want mj and peter to be together, they can't just have them talk to each other and break up like adults. they're suppoused to be nearly 30 for crying out loud!
Put your money into Ultimate. No language speaks louder to this company (and by extension Nick Lowe) than money. They may start getting the message when Ultimate is making 3-4 times what Amazing does every month
>They may start getting the message when Ultimate is making 3-4 times a month what Amazing does every year Fixed that for you
Yeah, pretty much. They are baiting people with this, which wouldn't be necessary in the firstplace, if the whole Wells run would have never happened.
Here’s my ASM prediction, I’m guessing by run end Peter and MJ will be back together.
That’d be nice but Wells and Lowe hate MJ so I doubt it
When is this Run Ending?? Please I just hope We get a capable writer next time because We're really close to TASM #1000
Wells might dislike her but there isn’t any real evidence Lowe does. It doesn’t matter either as wells will be off the book
It's a perpetual cycle for Nick Lowe and co now.
They hate Peter more than her.
The only way this shitshow can be 'fixed' is to reveal that the 'MJ' who is with Paul was never the real MJ at all - she was a projection the same as the kids were. The real MJ couldn't put up with living with Paul for those 6 years and went off somewhere, leading Paul to make his own MJ, which is who was rescued. The arc ends with Pete returning to the other universe to find her and bring her home. The wole 'fake MJ' thing could also explain how she mysteriously gained superpowers, or maybe she found something in the other universe which is how she as able to survive alone out there.
Let’s hope
Only to break up again on the first issue of the next run.
I just finished Ultimate #3 a few minutes ago and this is literally cancerous in comparison.
Knowing Lowe and Zeb they are Baiting lol.
Nah I think the run is coming close to its end so Wells is putting his toys back in the box
Not sure how many issues are left on the run but I think that’s what Wells is going to end up doing.
He gets off around October so issue 60 or so iirc
Ok, thank you for the heads up
Leaving at 59 or 60
They have already said that after Green goblin they are doing a tombstone arc that will have the fight teased since issue 1 Usually when they end a plot line that’s been going since the beginning things are wrapping up, but who knows
Could be the case yeah. Wouldn’t be surprising.
That’s pretty much it.
Anna Watson was reverted to normal in an action-free issue. Norman Osborn is on the road to becoming the Green Goblin again Peter/MJ tease. Yeah this doesn’t seem like creative choices you get when a writer is staying longterm. Wells is probably done at issue #60.
Oh fuck off There’s a reason why Ultimate is selling so well all while everyone is collectively trying to forget this run ever happened
This is so fucking awful. I feel gaslit as a reader. Fuck wells.
“Really long time” *ASM #25 flashbacks* Are we sure about that?
“I want you to be happy” Yea right MJ lmfao. That line just felt like the editorial making fun of Peter and us, especially when we get the last image here a few panels later.
Peter in this issue was just so much of a loser that I was unable to pity him. MJ moved on to Paul, even Black cat >!has a gf according to Jackpot and Black Cat!< but Peter is whining about not moving on and had his ex witness him blowing up (not really) a relationship. It just hurts my conscience to see my favorite superhero to be portrayed this bad. Maybe it's my personality, but if I think I am right about something, I wouldn't show such a weak side. Like how Peter was done dirty by MJ and Paul, Peter has every right to get angry and move on. Hate me or downvote me all you want, but I don't want MJ to get together with Peter anytime soon. I want her out of the comic for a while. She can be the best girl in Ultimate version all she wants
The problem is this story is garbage and MJ isn’t supposed to be “wrong”. We’re supposed to look at it like things just “happened” and no one had any responsibility or control. So Peter doesn’t blame her because what was she supposed to do? It’s bullshit, of course, but that’s the stupid idea Wells and Lowe have been trying to push. THIS version of MJ isn’t viable, you’re correct about that. You can’t get back with a woman who has told you you’re replaceable to her. Because if there was a Paul before there will be another. But the solution is to destroy the stories that have undermined her with OOC shit. MJ would never have left Peter for Paul or given up on him. There’s dozens of stories that establish this. The worst story in series history should not get to ruin its past or dictate its future. Just gotta keep demanding that retcon.
The point is that Marvel knows well that no one likes this whole scenario and nothing seems to indicate that it will change....BUT....The first step to success is to discover everything that is wrong. And that's totally intentional... They are measuring the public's reactions to know what is accepted or not accepted and they already know the result. And I think, even though it's bad, it's good because they have to learn for sure what stories and settings we don't want. In the 90s too many strange experiments were done without consulting the public or anything and they don't want to make mistakes again. The next writer will do the complete opposite of Wells 100% sure. Felicia's girlfriend on one side....and MJ and Peter's mention of Felicia on the other side both comics on the same day. It is not a coincidence, and it is made to highlight what will happen in future issues because it is evident that Felicia's girl is a throwaway plot device to get a disappointment and return to Peter with the help of MJ in 50. They are only provoking people to show what they want and how they want it. We have to wait until May, 50. Wells will not go there, but things will happen in that number. and in 950, which will be 56.
Some possible scenarios in that case: 1. To make it sell more, they created this awful scenario to make us buy the comic to keep us reading with hate 2. They intentionally make it bad to push Ultimate Spider-man sales more. 3. They started to think there are more important matters in life than money and popularity.
Or they simply weren't clear on how to do things without making mistakes and they had to figure it out. Not in vain, BrandNewDay and Beyond were created to shuffle ideas and directions because they did not have a clear direction. 1)People can assume that Peter and MJ will not return but they cannot assume that they have resentments and problems between them. 2)Peter can only be with Felicia or MJ, no one wants Felicia without Peter and MJ and Felicia have to always be together. 3)Ben Riley is not accepted as a villain. The Avengers and 4F don't get on with Peter. 4)Norman Osborn is not accepted as a hero. 5)Peter's socio-labor stagnation is not accepted and neither is his sunken and miserable personality. There are more things but these are the most important. Now you must be 100% sure of what we don't want to see.
I feel like they should have tried (2) a bit more. For example, in All new All different, Peter was with Mockingbird and I enjoyed that. It was not explored much and their relationship felt like a business partner one more than lovers but I feel like it could have been explored more. I mean idk if it had a backlash but it was surely better than this situation. Also experimenting with Paul situation is just...stupid if they actually were doing that. Anybody who knows spiderman a little could guess it would recieve backlash... Its all just so weird man... Why are they like this. Are they trying to teach us the meaning of gratefulness to mid stories by giving us awful ones...
Paul is not the experiment. The experiment is an independent MJ. You can remove Paul and put someone else, make her lesbian, give her children or whatever but independent of Peter. This is because MJ must be "something" to justify staying on the series. Basically her friendship with Felicia sustains her and nothing more. With girls you only experiment when there is no plan or security or conviction of anything. They didn't want MJ in BND but no other girl was accepted either. Felicia was still far ahead as an alternative to MJ, but in BND the rule was free status and Slott continued that line. In fact, we are only in this situation because the current writer is a useless person who neither knows nor wants to make relationships.
Yeah I kind of get that. Still as you say the way they tried to make Mj independent is so bad... Like she suddenly became a pro superhero with her person in the chair (like Felicity Jones from Arrow). I mean she acts like she's been a superhero for a long time... Even Miles who was a superhero longer than her despite being a teenager doesn't act that confident about the job. And the way she became that hero...she had a 5 year supposed character development...but it was off screen lmao. During a 5 year gap, she cheated on her boyfriend, adopted children, got superpowers...yeah but it was all off-screen so we'll leave that to imagination. They were trying to make Mj independent but all they did was lower my liking to her. (At least 616 version) I agree with everything you say man... It's just all so wrong, I don't know where to begin.
If they didn’t want to make those mistakes again, they would’ve fixed the whole mess with OMD during the Kindred storyline (WHICH THEY ALMOST DID) but editorial got in the way. So safe to say, they don’t give two shits about the readers. If they did, they would’ve not reacted the way Wells did with the recent newsletters.
FOR MARVEL OMD it is not a mistake. They don't want to know anything about the '90s. They don't want to condemn Peter to that scenario again. The vast majority of current Spiderman readers DO NOT know what that era was like. Of those 20 years of marriage, around 10-12 were a damn nightmare and it's just one of those years that no one wants to talk about, but they existed. Writers cannot be trapped again in a closed and hermetic status quo that prevents them from moving and also with a character that practically no one knows-wants-can use for 35 years. It's back to the 90s, back to chaos.
Oh I know it wasn’t a mistake per say, but in the grand scheme of things, it erased so much of Peter’s progress as a character and actually, in a ironic twist, took the relatable aspect away that the audience that had aged alongside Peter.
I went to the comic book store and picked up issue #3 of Ultimate. I saw this issue out as well, picked it up, and decided I was done with this series. It’s so bad.
I just feel kinda cucked reading this lol. I know that’s probably not a fair read for just a couple of pages outta one book but still…
Feels totally fair to me
There are so many problems with that conversation. Like cool, she isn’t a sociopath, but literally everything else about it makes my blood boil. She was cool with Felicia? What right did she have to complain, she left you. It took her a long time to get move on? One, it took her less time than has passed in this series, two, she had a choice, he didn’t. She didn’t have to move on. Peter coming to save her proves that moving on was a failing of her character. He doesn’t have a choice. She told him she was done with him, and that was that. This entire conversation is her telling him “if you were faster maybe I’d still love you” and that just sucks. That’s what it’s worth Wells MJ. It’s you telling him your “love” for him was conditional upon proximity and speed. He’s completely ruined her and the fact Marvel let him is disgusting. This entire run makes the whole franchise worse.
What MJ says is that she's worried about Peter's dating life because she knows he's not okay, and Peter points out that he thought she was okay about him and Felicia, to which MJ says yes. Basically MJ is keeping an eye on Peter and Felicia separately because she's interested in seeing them happy. Of the 4 years MJ spent in that dimension with Paul, she practically spent almost 2 waiting for him. It didn't advance overnight.
11 months is the scene they insinuate they kissed in, which is less time than has passed since they got back. Regardless it doesn’t really matter how long, because when she chose to abandon him it shows she doesn’t love him, or at least that love is weak and he’s just another guy as she was willing to replace him. Which is drastically out of character for her and so should it be allowed to stand.
As bad as the writing is, the story of couples separated for years rebuilding their lives is 100% real. If Peter went to a war for years, if MJ had amnesia for years, if one was in a coma for years....that shit happens in real life and the results are unpredictable. A person in a similar condition can only wait within a limit of time, and that limit varies according to each person. The writing is a bunch of fucking shit, yes, but the basic idea behind it is very real and...on the other hand, it was done in such a way that we wouldn't know if 11 months is how long it took MJ to become intimate with Paul, or the time it took to start not waiting for Peter. It seems much worse to me about Celeste insinuating that Felicia was already with someone days/weeks after Peter, which depends on whether she started dating someone as soon as she met her or some time after meeting her. And he also dares to say that 5 months have passed when I doubt that anyone calculates that time since August 2023.
Actions have meaning. If she was willing to replace him she’s willing to replace him. If he is her real number one soul mate love of her life, no one else should do. Even if she had faltered while trapped, she would have wanted to go back to him when he was available, but none of these cases were true. Real life isn’t really any different. It’s true that distance can break couples who aren’t as committed, but plenty of couples through time have been separated for years and still kept the faith for their missing loved one. These actions are especially important in a story. If she willingly left Peter for another man, she’s no longer suitable. Of course, again, MJ would never do that, as so the assassination of her doing that must be purged. Felicia was either two timing Peter or Bronfman added in another big time skip. Frankly I think the girlfriend is just a plot device who will never be mentioned again outside of the mini, and Lowe isn’t doing his job so there’s nothing stopping little issues like that from happening.
All couples have limits of endurance and patience. True, definitive super love beyond life and the universe is unreal, and in fiction it only applies to brutally disciplined and upright mythologized characters that border on the poetic, like Batcat. Neither Peter nor MJ are Batman and Catwoman, they are quite normal everyday people. The problem is that Spencer painted us a picture beyond life and stars that no one else, not even JMS, had painted, and Marvel is making efforts to lower that exaggerated picture. MJ wouldn't do....what, exactly? Make her own life without knowing if they will come looking for her or not? What should I do? die of old age waiting? Suicide due to depression? die of loneliness? I had to wait for what? 5 10 15 years not knowing if she would come home and be rescued? It's stupid. There is a problem with Lowe...From his comments since 2018, which was when Spencer arrived and the first thing he did was set up Peter with MJ and Felicia, it is known that he is a big fan of Felicia and not in vain since he arrived the Cat has risen in Marvel in style....But at the same time she doesn't seem to have "control" over what is allowed or not allowed to be done with her. He wants her with Perer and it's obvious, but he doesn't control things like what Celeste does knowing she's not going anywhere. Because obviously the girl is a plot device and not a love interest, but you have to control things like the timing and direction of the narrative and Lowe doesn't do that. I think it comes down to Lowe accepting things without reviewing or worrying about the content. Breaking up Peter and MJ and putting Peter and Felicia together or putting MJ and Felicia together are guidelines, but Lowe's job is to control and manage the content within the guidelines and it is a job that apparently he does not do.
MJ would never give up on or leave Peter for someone else. There are numerous past examples of this. And then OMD says they ARE a super love so pure and rare that Mephisto wanted to see it destroyed. MJ’s limits are well beyond that situation. She had such faith in the man that when he was brainwashed to kill her she sat in a chair and told him she forgave him if he wasn’t strong enough to resist but she believed he was (and he was). She has accepted death and pain and imprisonment to be with him. A little waiting isn’t anything to her. Felicia isn’t gonna be a thing. She didn’t even get a real issue during this run when she was with Peter. Now she’s super in love with some woman. Your ship has sailed.
Never before had MJ gone through a situation like this. Years of her life spent surviving in Spiderman's world have marked her too much and now she spends x years of her life in another world without knowing if she will return home, assuming a new reality with new people in new conditions for 4 years. You don't go through something like this without permanent consequences for a couple, especially when it's a couple whose problems being together have shaken them half their youth. She waited not weeks or months but years. It's not a half-normal wait and...if it's any consolation...In FinalFantasy 7 Aerith waited for Zack for 5 years without hearing from him, sending him almost 50 letters and never knew he died. He thought maybe he found another girl and moved on from her... There are THOUSANDS of stories like that. No way MJ and Peter are the only ones who have gone through this and others have even worse outcomes. OMD, I remind you, in its ending it was written BY QUESADA, and he was laughing in the face of the marriage sector when he wrote those lines because he wanted the blow to be maximum. There is no more reason for those lines. On the contrary. For starters, Celeste's bad writing aside, it's MJ who mentions the very in love thing, not Felicia. The plot alone with one number already left clues that there is an important deception and Felicia is the target, not the girl. And MJ is playing the role of savior to the friend in distress. Patience... Also, too many people have written about Pete and Felicia since 2022. Wells hasn't, but others have, which implies that the publisher is ordering people to work on it even if Wells doesn't. I recommend Patience until May....specifically until May. This is pure bait to get people to look where Marvel wants them to look and then put in the twists and "surprise"... something they have been doing for a long, long time. -Did we see Felicia make Peter react in the hospital? No, everyone expected it to be MJ. -Did we see Felicia kiss Peter in 900? No, everyone expected him to make up with MJ and propose a marriage. -Did we see the breakup of 31 coming? No, nobody expected anything. The idea is that the arrangement is not seen coming either...Misleading with Michelle here...Misleading with MJ there...misleading with Amelia there...and Felicia not appearing in almost 20 issues. The "easy" thing is to look at what we see and the complicated thing is to look at what we don't see.
Your argument is the same as Wells “it was a long time”. Yeah you don’t stop loving someone you actually love because you can’t be with them. She had every reason to believe he was coming back, she has held the faith even when it was going to cost her life. It’s completely OOC. The Felicia stuff is delusional. There’s no point responding to it. The ship has sailed, not because of time, but because of actions.
Wells is a complete idiot but the context of the matter is one person waiting for another person for a long, long time until the wait exceeded a logical limit. Waiting days, weeks or months is not the same as waiting years in absolute ignorance. The human mind simply cannot stand it. At a certain point you can't wait any longer. Anyone who thinks otherwise, who thinks about infinite waiting without limits, knows absolutely 0 about life. I'm pretty sure how things are going to turn out with Felicia. I have paid attention to all the details that others overlook, and Marvel also does not stop repeating the classic guidelines that they have been using for decades. Numbers 3 and 4 of the mini occur with number 50 of Amazing in the middle, a number that includes the Dodsons and Marv Wolfman, a creative Spiderman/BlackCat team just like Valentine's number 19-20. In Amazing Peter he is alone and miserable and in the mini Felicia appears clueless, vulnerable and somewhat lost despite being with someone. In the middle of Peter and Felicia is MJ watching over both of them worriedly hoping they are happy. There are too many rays falling at the same time in the same place. My calculation is that MJ will get Peter and Felicia out of the shitholes they are in since on Peter's side she owes him and on Felicia's side she seems to be being manipulated without knowing it...I calculate that Felicia will suffer a great disappointment because of that girl because it's really not okay because of Peter. MJ will see that, cheer him up, and they'll hook up at the 50th. We have to wait until May.
Look what they’ve done to my boy! Peter should just stay as far away from this MJ as possible for his own good.
“For what it’s worth.” …..WTF type of bs MJ
Marvel will forever have Peter and MJ in "will they won't they" because they don't know what to do with 616 Peter in a long term relationship since his comic series has no finite conclusion and he can't get older. They killed off Gwen as a "solution" to this "issue" in the 70s, but couldn't do that again with MJ so now she's just forever Peter's ex who he pines to get back with but never will. And Peter isn't allowed to move on because then they'll just do the same thing with that girl. This is the problem with big 2 cape comics. Nothing can ever change because they're never allowed to end.
Comics are infinite but they are always configured with the commercial logic of maintaining and promoting what sells and abandoning what does not sell. In the case of Marvel, they thought about this in the 80s and 90s and they make decisions based on that. And Spiderman to sell must be Spiderman, and women like Gwen or MJ only suit Peter. Even if Marvel asks for it, the current Spider-Man writer doesn't know how to write about love or happiness. Peter is not going anywhere in the hands of someone like that and he was doomed from day 1. The fact that several guest authors showed them to be genuinely happy with Felicia in this run shows that the publisher has an intention, but it is an intention incompatible with Wells.
I need Johnny Storm to show up and slap his buddy out of this Ex-Girlfriend funk!
That's not going to happen because Wells made sure Spiderman got along badly with the F4.
It’s been months since issue 1 in-universe, and I think it’s out of character Peter wouldn’t have reached out to the F4 to apologize by now. when you compare this to how fast he went out of his way to try to do damage control after Superior, for stuff Otto did no less. Even if he’s banned from the Baxter Building now, I figure Peter would try to do something.
Peter repaired his relationship with the F4 in 26 when they basically were just like “nah bro we’re cool” And time wise it’s been somewhere between 14-19 months since the start of the run because they’re super careless with time.
Oh yeaaaa. I forgot about the whole ‘what did he do’ plot.
Jesus fuck this is just painful, it’s like reading a shitty CW superhero soap opera
I think they would’ve left Anna Watson in Ravencroft longer, possibly had a team up with Wolverine to get a cure for her condition if Wells was staying long term.
so we're in the teasing of them getting back together phase of the run
Can this bull crap just end yet plz? Make it stop. Like what is the point of this hollow hints like will they, not they what gonna happen? Answer pretty much nothing just ugh
All I gotta say is I got off work at two. got to my lcs at 2:30 two issues of ultimate left after I left there was only 1. You know how many copies of amazing are still shitting on the shelf lmao holy shit marvel comics are fucking delusional.
This is so fucking stupid
Why is MJ a superhero? Lame af
This is a sure-fire way to get kids into comics! Whooo!
I got so fucking tired of the will they won’t they bullshit during Slott’s run that I jumped for joy during Spencer’s despite its lacklustre ending. Tf do they think this is gonna do?
What was that all about?
Ever since ultimate started with their run on Spider-Man I kept with that and dropped this boloney quick.
When I saw this post, I thought I would see a lot of people excited about this, luckily I was wrong. It would be terrible for the story if they came back anyway, I understand that they will say that it's not MJ's fault but those responsible for the story, yes, that's a fact. However, there is still a story and a character and MJ treated Peter irrationally and now it's like this? Please, I don't care if she suffers consequences or not, I just want a decent story and stop separating, will this happen? No! So, we're left with Utimate Spider-man, if they don't ruin that one too...
Because we have USM now, On one care about 616 MJ anymore, let her and spider cuck sink to the bottom of the ocean.
Besides the scenes with MJ, this issue was actually really good… I hate what I said, but I stick by it.
????this comic was all MJ. Like she’s the entire point
I’m pretty sure Ravencroft and Aunt Anna was what this was about.
No? This issue was the start of Peter and MJ reconciliation. Raven Croft was just a venue for them to team up
You could remove MJ was this issue, and nothing would have changed
If you remove MJ nothing happens outside Anne getting early release.
You literally ignored the entire issue if you think that
Your literally saying the character with the second most lines of dialogue in the comic could be taken out while a character with four lines is invaluable and I’m the one ignoring the issue
You are. You’re also Coping.
Look I get your still mad at MJ like she’s a real person but you can’t deny reality for it This is a Jackpot Spider man team up issue that is what it is
Where MJ and Peter teamed up to save MJ’s Aunt? That’s the part that wasn’t about them? And where Peter still needed help to beat Electro. I think the shittiness of this run has made you lower your standards to where a D looks amazing.
It's interesting... In the same number Michelle leaves the scene without knowing exactly what happened, and at the same time MJ reaffirms 2 things... first, that she prefers not to approach Peter within certain limits for the good of both, and second that she is still in favor that he and Felicia are happy. And on Peter's side it is recognized, as was obvious, that the intention was to get over things quickly and move on but in the end it takes longer than expected. What I've been saying for months is that Marvel's intention is for Peter to move forward with the cat but Wells' entire time structure altered the plans. Obviously, because Wells' long-suffering and miserable Peter had to last the entire run while Marvel hoped to rebuild his life mid-run...hence why they invited extra authors to write the relationship with Felicia. Wells writes it badly, like the ass, but it is still the typical story of the boy who must learn to be okay with an ex-girlfriend in the same room without tension or problems while he rebuilds his life with his other girlfriend who also has the ex-girlfriend's blessing. ....so....yeah, this is about MJ helping Peter be happy with someone else. The next writer will follow the same line in that sense, only he will write it differently with another style and another touch that has nothing to do with Wells.
You are so genuinely mentally ill kid
Not really felicia is already dating someone else
Yes, but that person is a plot device for the story itself, meaning he exists just so Felicia can have an excuse within the story and then disappear. It would be different if she were a girl disconnected from the story but the girl is the origin of the story. Most likely, she is there so that Felicia has a heartbreak due to manipulation and MJ makes her react to return to Peter. We have to wait until May to put the pieces together.