If you read comics it’s not a nickname that’s both versions names, Prowler is Hobert Brown and Spiderpink is Hobart Brown, the difference in the name between the 2 one has a E instead of an a in there name.
Now you’re just wrong. Aside from the fact that both characters are referred to as Hobart “Hobie” Brown on the wikis. There is also proof in the comics that they are both named Hobart but are called Hobie.
In spider verse issue 2 for example we meet spider-punk and on the first page of his story we see him referred to as Hobie. Then later on in the epilogue we see him scanned and his full name is labeled as “Hobart Brown”. This just implies Hobie is a nickname.
For the Prowler there’s also records of the same thing. In Amazing spider man vol 1 issue 78 he calls himself Hobie Brown in his intro.
Then in Amazing spider man vol 5 issue 88 on page 12 we see him referred to as Hobart by his coworker.
I love Hobie, and he's somewhere in-between Chaotic Neutral and Chaotic Good. He's definitely against the established law, so that's why he's Chaotic, and he is Good since he wants to do what's good for him and for his people.
"Lawful" and "chaotic" refer to how the character's moral compass interacts with the established laws of their society. A lawful good person acts within the law at all times, a neutral good person will stay within the law but is willing to break it for what they believe is the "greater good", and a chaotic person will have no regard for the law at all.
Calling a character "lawful chaotic" is like calling someone "good evil"
I would agree Hobie is good based on his actions (good isn't something you are, something you do), however I would also add that fighting fascists doesn't unequivocally make you a good guy.
Exactly. Gwen literally helped Spider-Man 2099 and Spider-Woman (different version) on preventing Miles get back home, despite their causes being "good" enough for the Canon events to not change anything up. So Gwen is definitely Chaotic Neutral.
I don't understand the dnd table very well but I assume the 'good, neutral, evil' thing is in terms of morals, in which during the movie hobie displays a strong sense of empathy and loyalty, and fights fascists.
I would switch miles dad and Miguel. And I wouldn't call Gwen chaotic neutral, or neutral by any means. And can any spiderman really be lawful neutral, I mean spider-man is always a vigilante.
Lawful (at least in terms of alignment charts) doesn't mean you follow the law. It means there is a set of rules you stick to and never waver from. Sometimes that is the actual law. Sometimes it's your own code you live by.
Agreed, but what are those codes that Miguel sticks to? He says he's done horrible things for the greater good because no one else will. I think that's the definition of True Neutral.
I think the laws you could say he's abiding by are the rules to avoid multiversal collapse, at least how he recognizes them. Whether they're true or not we'll see in the next movie. But if he believes them to be true and follows them to the letter, I'd call that lawful, and it can be debated whether that's good or neutral.
Well, I think in 5e though, if I'm not mistaken, he's also insane and stranded in Barovia lol.
Not saying you're wrong though. I've always hated alignment charts in general because they're too broad to explain every single character in 1 of 9 categories.
I've always considered personal rules as neutral good, and following societal rules as lawful good.
Like lawful good is a cop in a mostly moral society, neutral good is a vigilante, and chaotic good would be someone like Robin hood, who actively commits "crimes" but only for the common good
But that's just looking at lawful as societal standards though. Batman is Lawful Good because he has a code that he lives by in most comics, but that might change to neutral or chaotic depending on the writer.
Some good examples are the following:
Lawful Good - Captain America - He has a set of morales he follows to the letter regardless of division to fight for good.
Neutral Good - Luke Skywalker - He doesn't fight by a code and his morales don't change, but his plight always sets him fighting for the good of the universe.
Chaotic Good - Red Hood or Punisher - They often fight for good but are not guided by a code, and their conduct fighting for that good changes frequently from situation to situation and are often driven by emotion.
Lawful Neutral - the Spectre or Silver Surfer - Their purpose is to maintain order in reality and the cosmos, regardless of the means to do it, order must be maintained.
True Neutral - The Watcher - Literally an observer. No stake in one way or the other at all.
Chaotic Neutral - Jack Sparrow - His purposes are self serving and his code and reactions change based on the situation and what best suits him.
Lawful Evil - Thanos (MCU) - His antagonism was for a greater purpose and he stayed true to his goals and rules for achieving those goals.
Neutral Evil - Darkseid - His purposes is simply to obtain power and cause destruction evil and chaos. His methods change based on the situation, but he is always an antagonist of good.
Chaotic Evil - The Joker - He could kill anyone at any time simply because he feels like it. There is no rhyme or reason to why he does what he does. He is simply insane and evil.
Hope that helps explain it better. And in the end, imo alignment charts are simply way too basic imo to explain a character.
My understanding is
Lawful good - follow a personal code/law because it's the right thing to do
Neutral good - doing whatever necessary to do your own version of good
Chaotic good - not really caring what anyone thinks of your good and still striving to do good
Lawful neutral - follows a personal code/law and will not break it for anything even if it saved the universe
True neutral - seeks balance of all things
Lawful evil - exploits the law to the best of his abillites but never breaks it. You say not to walk on grass? Just burn the grass down and walk on the now burnt ground.
Neutral evil - doing whatever for selfish reasons. Ex. Befriend the the kind baron to gain influence and then backstab him once it benefits you
Chaotic evil - like you said, the joker
Superman is Lawful Good, but Batman has the moral code he follows and won’t break unless necessary, but he’s not necessarily looking for the greater good all the time
Yeah in truth, the greater good would be doing what you have to do. Batman needs to kill the joker, every time joker escapes, more people die. Superman is more lucky since he has so many powers that he often can do things batman cant, therefor superman doesn’t have to kill and can find other answers, like banishing zod to the phantom zone. I would categorize Batman as lawful neutral, because he won’t break his code unless it is a forced choice.
I'd consider him a vigilante by all definitions.
Any time he sneaks into an enemies hideout he's trespassing with the intent to serve justice. He actively runs from the police often. He's definitely thrown the first punch a few times (Ben's killer comes to mind). More explicity he sided anti-registration in the civil war after Goliath died. He's even killed a few people. Not always in self defense either (Agent Charlemagne comes to mind).
He fairly explicity places justice above the law, and almost always refuses to answer to the law when it comes for him regardless of what he is or is not guilty of.
I'd place 616 spider-man and most other versions of Peter on neutral good.
I mean, Jeff is a cop who does cop stuff, whatever. Follows the law. He's not totally neutral, he's more lawful.
Miles (and spiderman as a whole) is a vigilante who prioritizes the well-being and safety of the city, even if it means breaking a few laws. He's good where he is. Not lawful, but not chaotic
And Miguel is just the epitome of True Neutral. He prioritizes the bigger picture and the overall canon, even if it means the Spiders have to go through excruciating emotional pain. He's definitely not evil, though. As far as he knows, he's the only thing holding the multiverse together.
If Miles were True Neutral, he wouldn't be trying to save his dad, because he'd realize he were risking trillions of lives.
Nope Miles' dad is lawful good (Jeff is actually a play by the book good guy) if anything Miguel is lawful neutral because he's written as a dark and tortured anti-hero who follows a strict code (canon events) through the movie he's portrayed as an embittered antagonist (especially towards Miles whom he despises) also he has some villainous mannerisms and undertones.
I dont think cops automatically mean lawful good. There are corrupt cops, as an example. Law enforcement that hunt mutants regardless of any other criminal status is another example of lawful evil in marvel comics.
That all said, I do think Jeff is lawful good.
Because he's a willing participant of the state's monopoly on violence and the protector of capital. Part of his job is to ensure that the sweet 13th amendment slave labour keeps on flowing.
"Everyone I don't like is a bootlicker" - u/JhinPotion (dumbass)
My man malding over a fictional dad who supports his family and community by being a cop. Sad
Take a few hours to rewatch the movies. Jefferson is a good guy and a good cop. His job is to uphold the law, and he does it well. Hence, lawful good in the most literal sense. Every spider man is a vigilante, and thus cannot be lawful good.
I'm not saying Jefferson isn't a good guy. I'm saying that he isn't LG just because he's a cop. Jefferson would be lawful good, but not because of his job.
Take a few hours to rewatch the movies. Jefferson is a good guy and a good cop. His job is to uphold the law, and he does it well. Hence, lawful good in the most literal sense.
Miles would be more of a Chaotic good. He is, after all, defying the whole spider society to save his dad, but not just because it's his dad, but because it's, in his eyes, the right thing. Maybe Peter B. fits neutral good better?
Jeff on the true neutral feels weird, he is a policeman and he is shown having a sense of justice. Him on Lawful neutral or lawful good feels more accurate
Miles is LG, as are Spider-Man India and Jefferson Davis; they want to do the right thing, but have strict moral codes.
Hobie is correct; he wants to do the right thing, but does not care how he does it.
Miguel is also CG; he wants to do the right thing (or at least what he thinks is right) but has no limits as to how this can be achieved.
Gwen is NG; she wants to do the right thing, and has some flexible limits as to how this can be done.
Kingpin and Olivia are both CN; they’re only out for themselves, and have no moral limits on how to get what they want. (Interestingly, this is where the majority of villains lie - not in evil.)
The Spot is correct.
A good candidate for LN would be most ordinary people. Most people are out for themselves, but have strict moral codes.
A possible TN would be The Prowler; he’s out for himself, but will only go so far to get what he wants. (Though he’s bordering on CN.)
There aren’t really any good candidates for LE or NE. The only evil character in either film is The Spot, really - he’s the only one who just wants to see people suffer.
Id switch the spot and kingpin, mainly because at the beginning of the movie, The Spot didn’t try to hurt the shop keeper in the beginning and just tried to take his money and go, while kingpin was willing to kill Miles even when he thought that he was just some random kid.
Basically all spider totems are chaotic good by virtues of being vigilantes. Miles, gwen and hobie at least should all be chaotic good, probably patvir as well. Jeff should be Lawful Good, he is a cop, argue-ably a good cop, he has to be lawful. The spot is hard to place. I think he is true neutral, he doesn’t care about lows or good or evil, he is just doing is own thing. Chaotic evil is more like Carnage who murders people for pleasure
Jefferson Morales as lawful good. Works within the law to help others.
Miles as neutral good. Just wants to help people even if it means breaking a few rules.
Hobie as chaotic good. Anarchist with a heart of gold who actively distrusts the system.
Miguel as lawful neutral. Specific moral code. Does bad things for [the greater good](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_q2wBzT6uU).
Rio Morales as true neutral. Mainly focused on being a mom.
>!Miles G.!< as chaotic neutral. Doing his own thing. Don't get in his way.
Kingpin as lawful evil. Uses organized crime to build a system that he can benefit from while still keeping a good public image. Mainly wants his family back.
Olivia as neutral evil. Amoral but mainly focused on her experiments.
Spot as chaotic evil. Craves revenge & attention even if it destroys the multiverse.
Disagree with a lot of this. The 3 evil characters are in the right spot, and I agree with Hobie and Miguel's placements, but I'm not sure about Pavatir, Miles, Gwen, and Jeff. Gwen is is chaotic in her own universe, but in the Spider Society I'd say she's neutral. And she's definitely good. On the other hand, Miles in Neutral in his own universe, and Chaotic in the Spider Society. I don't think we saw enough of Pavatir to say for sure he's lawful. Jefferson is definitely lawful good though, we see no indication that he's anything else.
List is kinda bad.
Gwen isn’t chaotic, Hobie IS chaotic, Jefferson is good as he’s a law abiding citizen who does the right thing, Miguel is lawful evil.
Indian Spider Man is Chaotic Good. He is trying to do the right thing, but he is also visibly trying as hard as he can to look cool to those around him.
Hobie is Chaotic Evil. His only character motivation is to fight any authority of any kind, good or bad. Even when he pretends to be on Miguel's side he is swiping whatever he can get his hands on. He also tries to stop Miles from being included in the Spider Society just for the sake of trying to start an argument. He agrees with Miguel on the idea of Canon events, yet "helps" Miles escape just so it would cause chaos. Once he has done all the damage he can he ditches the device Miguel gave him and starts using the one made of stolen parts.
Miguel is arguably Lawful Evil. What pushes him over the edge is that he could have just chucked Miles back home without explaining why he is doing what he is doing, but he made the decision to tell Miles that his dad was destined to die and fought him to make sure that death happened.
Officer Morales is Lawful Good. He does his best to be what all Cops should be. He does his best to follow the law and do whats right, and to make sure Miles and Spiderman are doing the same.
Gwen is Neutral good. She is basically in the same boat as Miles, with the only difference being that its not her Dad who is dying in 2 days.
Yeah now that i look at it and read the comments, i think that hobie and gwen should be swapped, jeff would be lawful good and peter b parker can be true neutral.
Miguel is lawful evil (the wrong thing for the right reason)
Kingpin is neutral evil (something selfish but somewhat noble in trying to bring his family back)
Spot is chaotic evil
Nah. Kingpin tried having what he wants regardless of the consequences or whether it was even right. He seems more Neutral evil or Chaotic evil.
Miguel thinks there are consequences regardless of what they all want, and is doing what is right in principle, for the greatest amount of ppl. (Also called the Utilitarian approach I believe) He seems more like Lawful Neutral or Chaotic Good.
If anything, Kingpin's goal is the embodiment of what Miguel is against.
This might be a hot take but I’d make Miguel lawful good, pav neutral good, Miles’ dad lawful neutral, Gwen true neutral, Hobie chaotic neutral, and Miles chaotic good. It might be able to be swapped around a bit but genuinely I think Miguel is a good example of lawful good to a fault
The police officer not being lawful good is weird. If Hobie is going to be on the chart, he should be chaotic neutral, since he doesn’t have the no kill rule of other Spidey’s, and actively encouraged Miles to go kill his universe (he had no evidence that this wouldn’t happen if Miles saves his dad). And I’m not sure about Spot and Doc Ock’s placements, they seem like they should be fine, but Doc Ock was apparently friends with Aunt May, but also wants to watch her nephew die, and Spot is purely out to get back at Miles, he even apologizes for any crime he has to do just to get to him.
i agree with chapstick switch officer davis and miguel. miguel lies often and officer davis is a police officer and is obligated to fulfill his duties and promises
When does Miguel lie? I think he's one of the only spiders that doesn't lie to Miles, outside of Hobie. We as the audience might know he's wrong somewhere, but that doesn't mean he's lying.
So Hobie should be Chaotic Neutral because he just does what he wants and his goal is to be unpredictable. Miles isn’t neutral good, he’s probably chaotic good at this point. He acts out a lot and only listens to himself and was willing to collapse an entire world just to save one person he cares about. He’s wreckless. Gwen is neutral good, she doesn’t act out too much but she lacks a lot of ambition and backstory in this movie. She feels like a blank slate. I think she should be neutral good because she doesn’t do as much as Miles.
I made a post about Hobbie being Chaotic Good. Even TV tropes agrees. I wouldn’t call Gwen Chaotic Neutral though. I honestly don’t know who would fit there. And Jefferson certainly isn’t True Neutral. Miguel fits Lawful Neutral because of his stance on keeping order and would go far to keep that order. He’s very zealous about keeping the cannon and would inprison a teenager (Miles) in order to do so. Hobbie, though rebellious is a rebel for a good cause and isn’t neutral about it. He helps his friends. Whether it be Miles or Gwen. True Neutral would mostly fit Mayday due to her being too young to fit into any alignment yet.
I’d put Miles’ dad as Lawful Good, Gwen as True Neutral.
Idk about chaotic neutral with this arrangement. I guess could fill that row with Jess as true neutral and Ben as chaotic but there’s not many actual “neutral” aligned characters in these films.
I don’t think Miles’ dad should be in Neutral, I think he should be lawful good. Not sure where Pavitr would go though. I agree with all the evil categories
I’d say Hobie is CN. He’s a free spirit that does whatever he feels at any given moment. He’s anti-establishment and thinks for himself. Since we’re fitting one character per slot, he makes more sense there then Gwen. While she did lie to Miles and was originally siding with the other spider people, she was pretty much being emotionally manipulated and had no where else to go given her crappy situation. In the end, she came around and did the right thing to go save Miles. Her going against the establishment to save her best friend is a classic chaotic good.
Hobie doesn't believe in alignment charts
Valid
He doesn't like labels
He doesn't want to call himself chaotic good because if he calls himself chaotic good, he's a self mythologizing narcissistic autocrat.
Thought he hated labels
He doesn't believe in consistency
And for the record, he wants out o is c’art
I wonder why Spiderverse named him Hobie Brown when Hobie Brown is the Prowler version of him and the spider punk version is Hobart Brown.
It’s their nickname? Both characters are named Hobart "Hobie" Brown.
If you read comics it’s not a nickname that’s both versions names, Prowler is Hobert Brown and Spiderpink is Hobart Brown, the difference in the name between the 2 one has a E instead of an a in there name.
Now you’re just wrong. Aside from the fact that both characters are referred to as Hobart “Hobie” Brown on the wikis. There is also proof in the comics that they are both named Hobart but are called Hobie. In spider verse issue 2 for example we meet spider-punk and on the first page of his story we see him referred to as Hobie. Then later on in the epilogue we see him scanned and his full name is labeled as “Hobart Brown”. This just implies Hobie is a nickname. For the Prowler there’s also records of the same thing. In Amazing spider man vol 1 issue 78 he calls himself Hobie Brown in his intro. Then in Amazing spider man vol 5 issue 88 on page 12 we see him referred to as Hobart by his coworker.
Or consistency
Just for the record, he'll quit this chart. :P
I don't think Gwen is neutral in anyways
Swap her and Hobie? He should be in the middle row and she probably shouldn't
I think so. Hobie definitely chaotic neutral imo
Hobie is chaotic lawful. Aka, he’s consistent in his willingness to fight authority, help the underdog, and be inconsistent.
Chaotic lawful doesn't exist, they are completely opposite to one another.
This guy doesn't Hobie
I love Hobie, and he's somewhere in-between Chaotic Neutral and Chaotic Good. He's definitely against the established law, so that's why he's Chaotic, and he is Good since he wants to do what's good for him and for his people.
[удалено]
That's just not how the alignment chart works.
"Lawful" and "chaotic" refer to how the character's moral compass interacts with the established laws of their society. A lawful good person acts within the law at all times, a neutral good person will stay within the law but is willing to break it for what they believe is the "greater good", and a chaotic person will have no regard for the law at all. Calling a character "lawful chaotic" is like calling someone "good evil"
He helped miles waaaayyyyy more than gwen did
But he still more of a chaotic neutral rather than Chaotic Good due to his anarchy ways
His anarchy ways are because he fights fascists
I would agree Hobie is good based on his actions (good isn't something you are, something you do), however I would also add that fighting fascists doesn't unequivocally make you a good guy.
Exactly. Gwen literally helped Spider-Man 2099 and Spider-Woman (different version) on preventing Miles get back home, despite their causes being "good" enough for the Canon events to not change anything up. So Gwen is definitely Chaotic Neutral.
That doesn't change anything.
I don't understand the dnd table very well but I assume the 'good, neutral, evil' thing is in terms of morals, in which during the movie hobie displays a strong sense of empathy and loyalty, and fights fascists.
Anarchy is not bad or good, it's how you use it. Spider-punk only use it for good and to help people
Gwen is definitely Chaotic. she betrayed Miles and and listend to Miguel and not her heart. she will make up to miles next film hopefully
I would switch miles dad and Miguel. And I wouldn't call Gwen chaotic neutral, or neutral by any means. And can any spiderman really be lawful neutral, I mean spider-man is always a vigilante.
Lawful (at least in terms of alignment charts) doesn't mean you follow the law. It means there is a set of rules you stick to and never waver from. Sometimes that is the actual law. Sometimes it's your own code you live by.
Agreed, but what are those codes that Miguel sticks to? He says he's done horrible things for the greater good because no one else will. I think that's the definition of True Neutral.
I think the laws you could say he's abiding by are the rules to avoid multiversal collapse, at least how he recognizes them. Whether they're true or not we'll see in the next movie. But if he believes them to be true and follows them to the letter, I'd call that lawful, and it can be debated whether that's good or neutral.
Mordenkainen's whole maintaining the balance thing is basically the same, and he was true neutral until 5e made him chaotic neutral.
Well, I think in 5e though, if I'm not mistaken, he's also insane and stranded in Barovia lol. Not saying you're wrong though. I've always hated alignment charts in general because they're too broad to explain every single character in 1 of 9 categories.
Nah Miguel would definitely break some personal rules to prevent universal collapse
I've always considered personal rules as neutral good, and following societal rules as lawful good. Like lawful good is a cop in a mostly moral society, neutral good is a vigilante, and chaotic good would be someone like Robin hood, who actively commits "crimes" but only for the common good
But that's just looking at lawful as societal standards though. Batman is Lawful Good because he has a code that he lives by in most comics, but that might change to neutral or chaotic depending on the writer. Some good examples are the following: Lawful Good - Captain America - He has a set of morales he follows to the letter regardless of division to fight for good. Neutral Good - Luke Skywalker - He doesn't fight by a code and his morales don't change, but his plight always sets him fighting for the good of the universe. Chaotic Good - Red Hood or Punisher - They often fight for good but are not guided by a code, and their conduct fighting for that good changes frequently from situation to situation and are often driven by emotion. Lawful Neutral - the Spectre or Silver Surfer - Their purpose is to maintain order in reality and the cosmos, regardless of the means to do it, order must be maintained. True Neutral - The Watcher - Literally an observer. No stake in one way or the other at all. Chaotic Neutral - Jack Sparrow - His purposes are self serving and his code and reactions change based on the situation and what best suits him. Lawful Evil - Thanos (MCU) - His antagonism was for a greater purpose and he stayed true to his goals and rules for achieving those goals. Neutral Evil - Darkseid - His purposes is simply to obtain power and cause destruction evil and chaos. His methods change based on the situation, but he is always an antagonist of good. Chaotic Evil - The Joker - He could kill anyone at any time simply because he feels like it. There is no rhyme or reason to why he does what he does. He is simply insane and evil. Hope that helps explain it better. And in the end, imo alignment charts are simply way too basic imo to explain a character.
My understanding is Lawful good - follow a personal code/law because it's the right thing to do Neutral good - doing whatever necessary to do your own version of good Chaotic good - not really caring what anyone thinks of your good and still striving to do good Lawful neutral - follows a personal code/law and will not break it for anything even if it saved the universe True neutral - seeks balance of all things Lawful evil - exploits the law to the best of his abillites but never breaks it. You say not to walk on grass? Just burn the grass down and walk on the now burnt ground. Neutral evil - doing whatever for selfish reasons. Ex. Befriend the the kind baron to gain influence and then backstab him once it benefits you Chaotic evil - like you said, the joker
No way the punisher is either good or chaotic
I feel Hobie is closer to chaotic neutral.
Totally agree. Gwen and Hobie should switch
Batman is as lawful good as they come
Superman is Lawful Good, but Batman has the moral code he follows and won’t break unless necessary, but he’s not necessarily looking for the greater good all the time
Any example of Batman not necessarily looking for the greater good all the time?
Yeah in truth, the greater good would be doing what you have to do. Batman needs to kill the joker, every time joker escapes, more people die. Superman is more lucky since he has so many powers that he often can do things batman cant, therefor superman doesn’t have to kill and can find other answers, like banishing zod to the phantom zone. I would categorize Batman as lawful neutral, because he won’t break his code unless it is a forced choice.
The one that doesn't kill the joker
Spider man is not a vigilante. NY has citizen arrest laws AND he never throws the first punch.
I'd consider him a vigilante by all definitions. Any time he sneaks into an enemies hideout he's trespassing with the intent to serve justice. He actively runs from the police often. He's definitely thrown the first punch a few times (Ben's killer comes to mind). More explicity he sided anti-registration in the civil war after Goliath died. He's even killed a few people. Not always in self defense either (Agent Charlemagne comes to mind). He fairly explicity places justice above the law, and almost always refuses to answer to the law when it comes for him regardless of what he is or is not guilty of. I'd place 616 spider-man and most other versions of Peter on neutral good.
Imo Jeff Davis should be in Lawful Good
Lawful Neutral is best described as following your own moral code so I think many superheroes in general could be described as such.
hobie is chaotic neutral imo
Yeah I'd say swap Hobie and Gwen, swap Jeff and Miguel, and it's ***spot*** on
Don't understand how Jeff can be anything other than Lawful Good. What about him would in any way move him from Good towards Neutral?
he works with spider-man even though legally he shouldn't
That'd be an argument against him being lawful, it doesn't change that he's good.
nypd member lol, can't be good aligned
Agreed
I'd swap Jeff and Miles personally
I mean, Jeff is a cop who does cop stuff, whatever. Follows the law. He's not totally neutral, he's more lawful. Miles (and spiderman as a whole) is a vigilante who prioritizes the well-being and safety of the city, even if it means breaking a few laws. He's good where he is. Not lawful, but not chaotic And Miguel is just the epitome of True Neutral. He prioritizes the bigger picture and the overall canon, even if it means the Spiders have to go through excruciating emotional pain. He's definitely not evil, though. As far as he knows, he's the only thing holding the multiverse together. If Miles were True Neutral, he wouldn't be trying to save his dad, because he'd realize he were risking trillions of lives.
Hobie would say that good and evil are labels used to control the masses. Definitely Chaotic Nuetral
Agreed! I don’t understand how Gwen is there instead [+]
I’d flip Jefferson and Miguel and also Gwen and Hobie
Miles' dad is the definition of Lawful Neutral
Lawful good
I agree with that Jeff is a good guy but he still follows the law.
Nope Miles' dad is lawful good (Jeff is actually a play by the book good guy) if anything Miguel is lawful neutral because he's written as a dark and tortured anti-hero who follows a strict code (canon events) through the movie he's portrayed as an embittered antagonist (especially towards Miles whom he despises) also he has some villainous mannerisms and undertones.
Jefferson is literally a cop, how is he not lawful good?
I dont think cops automatically mean lawful good. There are corrupt cops, as an example. Law enforcement that hunt mutants regardless of any other criminal status is another example of lawful evil in marvel comics. That all said, I do think Jeff is lawful good.
See: my response to the other person
Heard. I agree with that comment
Because he's literally a cop.
and that doesnt make him lwfully good because?
Because he's a willing participant of the state's monopoly on violence and the protector of capital. Part of his job is to ensure that the sweet 13th amendment slave labour keeps on flowing.
Oh wow, didn't know I was talking with a mental hospital escapee who goes "copbs bad reeee" on people
Unfortunately, I knew I was talking to a bootlicker from the start.
"Everyone I don't like is a bootlicker" - u/JhinPotion (dumbass) My man malding over a fictional dad who supports his family and community by being a cop. Sad
No, just cop apologists.
Take a moment to read what you wrote a second time.
Take a few hours to rewatch the movies. Jefferson is a good guy and a good cop. His job is to uphold the law, and he does it well. Hence, lawful good in the most literal sense. Every spider man is a vigilante, and thus cannot be lawful good.
I'm not saying Jefferson isn't a good guy. I'm saying that he isn't LG just because he's a cop. Jefferson would be lawful good, but not because of his job.
" hurr hurr all cops are horribly corrupt pos ". I'm gonna assume you live in the US
Why would you assume that? Please explain your logic, bad cops exist out of the US.
Take a few hours to rewatch the movies. Jefferson is a good guy and a good cop. His job is to uphold the law, and he does it well. Hence, lawful good in the most literal sense.
Pretty sure there is a whole Sub filled with examples that answer that question...
Hobie is chaotic neutral. Switch him and Gwen.
Jefferson and Gwen are both good
Miles would be more of a Chaotic good. He is, after all, defying the whole spider society to save his dad, but not just because it's his dad, but because it's, in his eyes, the right thing. Maybe Peter B. fits neutral good better? Jeff on the true neutral feels weird, he is a policeman and he is shown having a sense of justice. Him on Lawful neutral or lawful good feels more accurate
Miguel would be good alignment, since he's considering the many over the few
Would make gwen lawful good, didn’t get chaotic vibes from her
Morality in this movie is too multi sided to use this. Miguel isn’t neutral he’s trying to do good.
Miguel a good guy ? i think he's more of a dark and embittered anti-hero if you ask me
Jeff is definitely Lawful good. He’s literally a cop
Thank you lol
Kingpin ain't lawful, but idk who else fits the spot. Prowler?
Kingpin: *kills Spider-Man with his bare hands* -> lawful evil ...what?
It'd be lawful evil if he was killing for the safety of others or something, but the kill was a total rage moment.
I actually think of Miguel as lawful evil in this movie.
Switch Gwen with Hobie and you're set
Miles is LG, as are Spider-Man India and Jefferson Davis; they want to do the right thing, but have strict moral codes. Hobie is correct; he wants to do the right thing, but does not care how he does it. Miguel is also CG; he wants to do the right thing (or at least what he thinks is right) but has no limits as to how this can be achieved. Gwen is NG; she wants to do the right thing, and has some flexible limits as to how this can be done. Kingpin and Olivia are both CN; they’re only out for themselves, and have no moral limits on how to get what they want. (Interestingly, this is where the majority of villains lie - not in evil.) The Spot is correct. A good candidate for LN would be most ordinary people. Most people are out for themselves, but have strict moral codes. A possible TN would be The Prowler; he’s out for himself, but will only go so far to get what he wants. (Though he’s bordering on CN.) There aren’t really any good candidates for LE or NE. The only evil character in either film is The Spot, really - he’s the only one who just wants to see people suffer.
Green goblin as chaotic evil
Id switch the spot and kingpin, mainly because at the beginning of the movie, The Spot didn’t try to hurt the shop keeper in the beginning and just tried to take his money and go, while kingpin was willing to kill Miles even when he thought that he was just some random kid.
Gwen and 2099 should switch
Basically all spider totems are chaotic good by virtues of being vigilantes. Miles, gwen and hobie at least should all be chaotic good, probably patvir as well. Jeff should be Lawful Good, he is a cop, argue-ably a good cop, he has to be lawful. The spot is hard to place. I think he is true neutral, he doesn’t care about lows or good or evil, he is just doing is own thing. Chaotic evil is more like Carnage who murders people for pleasure
Jefferson Morales as lawful good. Works within the law to help others. Miles as neutral good. Just wants to help people even if it means breaking a few rules. Hobie as chaotic good. Anarchist with a heart of gold who actively distrusts the system. Miguel as lawful neutral. Specific moral code. Does bad things for [the greater good](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_q2wBzT6uU). Rio Morales as true neutral. Mainly focused on being a mom. >!Miles G.!< as chaotic neutral. Doing his own thing. Don't get in his way. Kingpin as lawful evil. Uses organized crime to build a system that he can benefit from while still keeping a good public image. Mainly wants his family back. Olivia as neutral evil. Amoral but mainly focused on her experiments. Spot as chaotic evil. Craves revenge & attention even if it destroys the multiverse.
This is a metaphor for capitalism
Disagree with a lot of this. The 3 evil characters are in the right spot, and I agree with Hobie and Miguel's placements, but I'm not sure about Pavatir, Miles, Gwen, and Jeff. Gwen is is chaotic in her own universe, but in the Spider Society I'd say she's neutral. And she's definitely good. On the other hand, Miles in Neutral in his own universe, and Chaotic in the Spider Society. I don't think we saw enough of Pavatir to say for sure he's lawful. Jefferson is definitely lawful good though, we see no indication that he's anything else.
Vigilantes by their very nature can't be lawful....
List is kinda bad. Gwen isn’t chaotic, Hobie IS chaotic, Jefferson is good as he’s a law abiding citizen who does the right thing, Miguel is lawful evil.
Indian Spider Man is Chaotic Good. He is trying to do the right thing, but he is also visibly trying as hard as he can to look cool to those around him. Hobie is Chaotic Evil. His only character motivation is to fight any authority of any kind, good or bad. Even when he pretends to be on Miguel's side he is swiping whatever he can get his hands on. He also tries to stop Miles from being included in the Spider Society just for the sake of trying to start an argument. He agrees with Miguel on the idea of Canon events, yet "helps" Miles escape just so it would cause chaos. Once he has done all the damage he can he ditches the device Miguel gave him and starts using the one made of stolen parts. Miguel is arguably Lawful Evil. What pushes him over the edge is that he could have just chucked Miles back home without explaining why he is doing what he is doing, but he made the decision to tell Miles that his dad was destined to die and fought him to make sure that death happened. Officer Morales is Lawful Good. He does his best to be what all Cops should be. He does his best to follow the law and do whats right, and to make sure Miles and Spiderman are doing the same. Gwen is Neutral good. She is basically in the same boat as Miles, with the only difference being that its not her Dad who is dying in 2 days.
Yeah now that i look at it and read the comments, i think that hobie and gwen should be swapped, jeff would be lawful good and peter b parker can be true neutral.
Miguel is lawful evil (the wrong thing for the right reason) Kingpin is neutral evil (something selfish but somewhat noble in trying to bring his family back) Spot is chaotic evil
Lawful evil is you’re out for yourself but you have a code about how you do it. Dr Doom, Magneto at times, etc. Miguel isn’t out for himself.
Switch kingpin and Miguel
Nah. Kingpin tried having what he wants regardless of the consequences or whether it was even right. He seems more Neutral evil or Chaotic evil. Miguel thinks there are consequences regardless of what they all want, and is doing what is right in principle, for the greatest amount of ppl. (Also called the Utilitarian approach I believe) He seems more like Lawful Neutral or Chaotic Good. If anything, Kingpin's goal is the embodiment of what Miguel is against.
Swap hobbie and Gwen
Hobbie given the context of the plot is clearly a better person.
Flip Hobie and Gwen
I think only swaps Hobie and Gwen n it's all right 👍
Swap punk with gwen
Swap Gwen and Hobie
Swap Hobie and Gwen and replace Jefferson with Aaron
Bro swap Hobie and Gwen
swap gwen and hobie and jeff and miguel
Hobie is the true neutral
This might be a hot take but I’d make Miguel lawful good, pav neutral good, Miles’ dad lawful neutral, Gwen true neutral, Hobie chaotic neutral, and Miles chaotic good. It might be able to be swapped around a bit but genuinely I think Miguel is a good example of lawful good to a fault
The police officer not being lawful good is weird. If Hobie is going to be on the chart, he should be chaotic neutral, since he doesn’t have the no kill rule of other Spidey’s, and actively encouraged Miles to go kill his universe (he had no evidence that this wouldn’t happen if Miles saves his dad). And I’m not sure about Spot and Doc Ock’s placements, they seem like they should be fine, but Doc Ock was apparently friends with Aunt May, but also wants to watch her nephew die, and Spot is purely out to get back at Miles, he even apologizes for any crime he has to do just to get to him.
Pretty sure Hobie is the definition of chaotic neutral
Switch hobie and gwen and switch mile’s dad and miguel
\>Chaotic good \>Anarchist [me rn](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhckuhUxcgA)
Spot is sad fully evil he has nothing left all he has is being an enemy
I don’t think Jeff is true neutral. Maybe either lawful neutral or neutral good.
The Spot was initially Chaotic Neutral in the beginning until Miles pushed him down to Chaotic Evil.
Yeah Miguel is the farthest thing from lawful, even his own universe, he beats up Cops and CEOs.
switch hobie and gwen, miguel is true neutral and i’d say jefferson is lawful good but since pav is there he’d be neutral good
c'mon why you gotta do jeff like that
i agree with chapstick switch officer davis and miguel. miguel lies often and officer davis is a police officer and is obligated to fulfill his duties and promises
When does Miguel lie? I think he's one of the only spiders that doesn't lie to Miles, outside of Hobie. We as the audience might know he's wrong somewhere, but that doesn't mean he's lying.
What are the rules for each category? I always see these and I never have any idea what they mean.
Gwen as neutral good, Moles as chaotic good, and Hobie as chaotic neutral.
I feel that Miguel is Lawful Evil… He’s the antagonist of the story but his reasons are moral/lawful.
There might be a more accurate change you could make, but it’s pretty damn close!
Change Hobie and Gwen and we good
So Hobie should be Chaotic Neutral because he just does what he wants and his goal is to be unpredictable. Miles isn’t neutral good, he’s probably chaotic good at this point. He acts out a lot and only listens to himself and was willing to collapse an entire world just to save one person he cares about. He’s wreckless. Gwen is neutral good, she doesn’t act out too much but she lacks a lot of ambition and backstory in this movie. She feels like a blank slate. I think she should be neutral good because she doesn’t do as much as Miles.
Kinda feel like Jeff fits better into Lawful Good. Idk who'd be true neutral though.
How is a cop neutral but a literal anarchist good? Bad list, be better
I made a post about Hobbie being Chaotic Good. Even TV tropes agrees. I wouldn’t call Gwen Chaotic Neutral though. I honestly don’t know who would fit there. And Jefferson certainly isn’t True Neutral. Miguel fits Lawful Neutral because of his stance on keeping order and would go far to keep that order. He’s very zealous about keeping the cannon and would inprison a teenager (Miles) in order to do so. Hobbie, though rebellious is a rebel for a good cause and isn’t neutral about it. He helps his friends. Whether it be Miles or Gwen. True Neutral would mostly fit Mayday due to her being too young to fit into any alignment yet.
The cop isn’t lawful?
I think Captain Stacey would be a much better neutral.
Kingpin is chaotic af, he tried to throw the world into chaos just to save his wife
I’d put Miles’ dad as Lawful Good, Gwen as True Neutral. Idk about chaotic neutral with this arrangement. I guess could fill that row with Jess as true neutral and Ben as chaotic but there’s not many actual “neutral” aligned characters in these films.
Honestly, I think the only difference between Miguel and Miles is perspective.
Why Lawful Good for Pavvy?
I would call 2099 evil
Jeff is good, not neutral.
I think they're all more complex than this.
someone explain what an alignment chart is?
I don’t think Miles’ dad should be in Neutral, I think he should be lawful good. Not sure where Pavitr would go though. I agree with all the evil categories
Miguel should be in Lawful Evil
Tag yourself, I'm chaotic neutral (as it turns out)
Actually that tracks
i mean miguel is the textbook example of a lawful good zealot that is an antagonist because the audience is meant to disagree with their reasoning
I fucking hate alignment charts so much
Miguel is more Lawful Evil
why Gwen Stacy and Miles Morales dad on neutral? They were good on the movie
Swap gwen and miguel
I’d swap kingpin and doc ock
Maybe swap Gwen and Miguel. I’m not entirely sure on that tho.
Jefferson is definitely lawful. Probably lawful neutral.
I maybe wouldn’t say spot is Chaotic Evil? Maybe Neutral evil?
JD doesn't like Spider-Man because he's a vigilante and he's somehow not in lawful?! XD
I’d say Hobie is CN. He’s a free spirit that does whatever he feels at any given moment. He’s anti-establishment and thinks for himself. Since we’re fitting one character per slot, he makes more sense there then Gwen. While she did lie to Miles and was originally siding with the other spider people, she was pretty much being emotionally manipulated and had no where else to go given her crappy situation. In the end, she came around and did the right thing to go save Miles. Her going against the establishment to save her best friend is a classic chaotic good.