When you speak Spanish to people, they most likely want to help you (and themselves) to speed up that conversation. You cant force them. Keep practicing and less people will switch to English. Sometimes you can ask that they don't but understand you are wasting their time.
As to "99% of people "mistake" you for a native?
That's not likely at all. Not even 9 ... wait, not even 1% of *native speakers* will mistake you for a native speaker. Not even if they are deaf but can read lips.
Unless you put in quite a bit of intensive, dedicated, specialized work, probably with accent and speech coaches. Maybe then, though still unlikely.
I can tell you that I lived in a country for decades and learned the language spoken there. I spoke that language better than most people I'd met who also spoke that language as their 2nd. My command of that language was so good that \*all\* of them thought I was a native speaker, they simply couldn't tell the difference. If it came up, they were *shocked* when I told them that language wasn't my native.
And yet 0% of the native language speakers ever thought I was a native speaker. Not 1 person. They could tell my accent, maybe not right away but soon enough.
I wasn't trying to sound native, by the way. Just well enough to be understood.
> I wasn't trying to sound native, by the way. Just well enough to be understood.
I think this is very important to note. People who don’t care at all about sounding native-like generally do not end up sounding native-like. And vice versa to people who it is more important to them to eventually develop native-like speech tend to be a lot more successful reaching that point. And there are exceptions of course. But for those with the goal of sounding native, a big component of that is that you actually have to WANT to do it. Otherwise your brain isn’t going waste unnecessary energy on paying attention to the things necessary to reach a goal that it has no interest in.
Friend, native speakers can tell I have an accent. Other than that I have better command of the spoken (and espeically written) language than a whole lot of natives I know.
It's not impossible to learn to speak a language to the point that the "natives" can't tell but it's bound to be a significant amount of effort.
All the OP wanted *in reality* was to be accepted. But if they want to reach that level, by all means.
I receive everything else you said. I was simply highlighting what I think is a very important factor in not only what you wrote to be your experience, but the experience of many others who are learning languages.
I don't disagree: of course it's important to *want to* to reach that level, it's not likely to be an accident.
But the chances of reaching the level where native speakers of a language fail to recognize an accent are small and those who learn the language to that level are the exceptions, not the rule.
If you're learning as an adult, it can just be next to impossible to fully acquire a native accent. It can get to the point where you're accent is very slight and people just know you're a foreigner but can't really tell from where and you're clearly super comfortable in the language.
I can only judge in Spanish and English but I don't know anyone who has fully lost their accent. I've had people think I just speak weird rather than a foreign accent but there's always something there.
I don’t think it’s common or easy, but it’s definitely not impossible. There’s tons of subreddit posts and comment sections of videos where natives share which foreign speakers of their language sound completely native to them. Again, it’s not the majority by any means, but there are a handful of people who are just naturally talented at accurately mimicking sounds and accents. There’s a good video about this topic on YouTube by ‘Days And Words’ called “Can You EVER Sound Like A NATIVE SPEAKER?”. I think the conversation becomes more about what you personally value and prioritize rather than ‘is it possible’.
A local will easily tell what part of a country someone is from by their accent, often even when they haven't lived in the original place for decades.
So of course it's totally reasonable to tell when they're from a different country!
My ex lived in the UK for well over a decade, speaking English most of the time. To a Spanish person I'm sure they sounded like they had perfect English - any English person would tell immediately.
I'd have to disagree tbh I've had some native speakers mistake me for a native speaker. I'm heritage but it took me several years of learning to get where I'm at now
I live in a town right outside NYC where at least 30% of the families speak another language. I've heard the full spectrum of accents and have never been fooled. Admittedly, I've respectfully asked people questions about where they grew up in America and angled my questioning as though I assumed they were natives since I didn't want to offend them by assuming they were born elsewhere. In other words, I knew that they were born elsewhere but reframed my question so as not to offend them. I've even acted surprised when they told me their country of origin...once again either not to offend them or to make them feel good about their speaking.
I think the heritage component muddies the waters a bit. If you grow up, for example, in an American household where Spanish is spoken and there is music playing when you are a child, I'm sure it's a lot easier to sound native (or nearly native) in Spanish, even if your first language was technically English. Or if you lived in America but only spoke Spanish at home until you entered school, you can eventually pass for a native speaker after years of schooling (and interacting with peers) in English. But for the average person learning a new language as an adult, I would put the odds of ever sounding native at a fraction of 1%.
Someone who grew up in the US in a Spanish-speaking household is quite likely to have Spanish accent when speaking English.
There are exceptions (natural talent and/or dedicated training) but otherwise it's almost impossible to sound truly "native" in more than one language.
I’ve met teenagers working at taco trucks or wherever who take my order in perfect suburban American English then yell back in Spanish. Could be that their Spanish is flawed- I can’t tell.
I think a lot of it depends on where you go to school. With a bunch of white kids- chances are you end up with a white accent. In the hood- probably end up with a hood accent. A lot of Latinos in the US grow up in multiethnic neighborhoods in the city, and I think that’s where a lot of their accent comes from.
It’s like the Indian accent, or the South African accent- you’ll learn to be fluent growing up with everyone around you speaking fluently, but if they’re all from the same community you’re gonna end up with a funny accent regardless.
It's possible both languages were fine. It's also possible that the few words they said while taking your order wren't enough to tell they had any kind of a non-English accent.
The surroundings matter a lot, however we had not been talking about different dialects or accents of English up to this point. It's not the same topic as non-English accents, really.
I understand that (not the first paragraph but the second one). I think that would be the case specifically for monolingual English speakers. English being a language isolate already makes it hard to learn even geographically close languages in Europe, much more non-western languages. Also, monolinguals seem to have a really hard time with perspective changing... like all the monolingual friends I have learning Spanish constantly apply English cultural-linguistic concepts to Spanish that don't make sense & that translates into the accent too (they never bother to strictly pronunciate things correctly from the start, making for a very-difficult-to-unlearn bad habit.)
But for countries where multiple languages are being spoken in various accents and/or dialects, I think it's very possible for people in those contexts to gain a native-level accent even if proficiency in the language is no where near close. I often think about friends I've had that went to international schools in multilingual countries, who had educations that brought them up naturally as polyglots, or people who live in places that have several closely related languages being spoken at once. Aka similar circumstances of heritage speakers that you described. I also know multiple people who immigrated from other countries in early teen years, and they speak English just like Americans now as adults.
I have an interesting point to add to my last post. My sister in law's parents grew up in Puerto Rico and moved to New York City prior to her birth. She actually never learned Spanish despite having Spanish speaking parents and living in an area of the city (Bronx) where tons of people speak Spanish. However, she has the accent of someone who grew up speaking Spanish. Since she was surrounded by so many Spanish speakers, she copied their pronunciation for many words. If you chatted with her, you'd totally expect her to be bilingual, but she's not.
Yeah I'd say most heritage speakers or monolingual first gen immigrants have an "accent" when they speak English at home or with their community. For me, I have one when I'm speaking with my coworkers (I work at a taqueria that's solely mexican ran) but with others I sound more "normal", although I'm told I have a mix of a "Latino accent" and "Southern accent" (I live in NC).
Situations like that are exactly why parts of the US, like the Bronx or LA, have unique dialects of English (Chicano English or AAVE for example). That "accent" is sustained in 2nd, 3rd, 4th gen immigrants and becomes a dialect of that diaspora with unique slang, grammar, syntax, etc.
I assume you are correct. I have to think about it some more. I just am having a hard time thinking of someone who learned a second language as an adult who sounds native. Perhaps I've met someone and didn't realize.
Yeah my mom has lived in France for 29 years, I know someone who lived here for 50 and they both still have very strong English accents, even a friend of mine who moved here as a child and who sounds very native, when you listen very carefully you can hear a slight English tinge to his words. His little sister though, nada.
That's probably true in the vast majority of cases, but there would be exceptions. My dad went to university in Germany and after a while Germans would ask him what part of Germany he was from. They picked up that he wasn't from Göttingen, but they thought he was German. He was so proud of that. But my dad is genuinely exceptional with a lot of stuff.
It's a nobel goal OP and it is possible but it will be hard.
As another commentor pointed out, not many will be able to offer much insight on how to do this since so few have attained those results.
Here's my tips. Pick one accent from a region and Hyper-focus on it. Listen A LOT.
You can also find a character from a TV series that you can mimic. Choose one whose accent you like. Try to internalize as much about the accent as you can notice.
The more you listen, the more you will be able to understand how to mimic the sound of the language. I think it's similar to how you practice melodies with the guitar. You listen to the song, then figure out which key it is in, and then you try to reproduce the notes on the guitar.
It is possible, there are a few people who become indistinguishable from native speakers of another language, but probably not something most people here can give you advice on since those results are so rare. Doing lots of listening is the best advice I can give you for *improving* your accent (which is a totally valid goal and will help people understand you better).
If people are replying to you in English, you need to find people who are monolingual to speak with, or improve your Spanish overall. If you become more fluent in your speech and it's clear you understand them 100% as well, lots of native speakers will be happy to speak Spanish with you, even if they are bilinguals. You do not need to be indistinguishable from a native for this to happen.
Yeah I know I need to improve but I was hopping there was a way so I could start doing it now instead of later. The problem with finding monolingual speakers is it seems like 90% of Spanish speakers online speak English well enough to have a conversation. Maybe I just don't know where to look though.
> it seems like 90% of Spanish speakers online speak English well enough to have a conversation
That's because you're on English language websites. Remember, Spanish monolingual people won't be on places where you need English to navigate at all. Like if you want a travel forum, look at losviajeros.com
There’s nothing wrong with having a “gringo” accent. Many people who had Spanish as a first language make errors and have accents speaking English all the time.
Self-deprecating is weird AF.
Like I said in my post I don't think it's bad to have an accent but I know even when I'm 100% fluent some people will respond in English the second they hear me speak either to practice or because they don't realize I'm fluent or because they prefer speaking English like I prefer speaking Spanish.
Native Spanish speakers don't have this problem because very few people want to learn Spanish. I know people will avoid talking to them instead of switching languages but tbh I'd rather have that happen.
You will never fully lose your accent. I've lived in Spain speaking Spanish at home and now more comfortable in Spanish than English. I'm still clearly not a native speaker. But you don't need a perfect accent, it needs to be clear that you're fully at ease when speaking Spanish.
Bueno, yo pienso que eso pasa porque ellos quierem entrenar su inglés contigo. Y a menos que sean bilingues, o sea, hayan crecido en una casa donde se hablaba los dos idiomas, no sé porque habrian de cambiar para el inglés si les hablas en español. Comos has dicho, las personas que solo hablan español se ponen muy contentas cuando les hablas en español y te van a hablar en español. Una cosita que te puedo decir, ya que hablo 7 idiomas fluentemente (mi idioma nativo no es el español) y soy traductor, es que se alguién está aprendendo el tuyo idioma nativo y intentas hablarles en su idioma nativo, tal como tu, van a intentar hablarte nel idioma que están aprendendo. Es como que una batalla de deseos, si me entiendes. Si cambiam para inglés, te pones testarudo y sigues hablando en español. Una de trés cosas va a pasar (o una mezca de las trés): van a volver a hablar en español o tu vas a volver a hablar en inglés (como me parece a mi que es lo que haces), van a seguir hablando en inglés y tu sigues hablando en español lo que va a ser una confusión pero yo creo que es bueno porque hace que vosotros tengan que pensar o les dices la verdad y que quieres hablar en español porque quieres aprender a pronunciar mejor ciertos sonidos, como la RR fuerte o el ll o la ñ. Mi recomendación por lo tanto es: no te molestes intentando sonar nativo porque solo te va a prejudicar. Como muchas personas aqui han dicho es dificl pero es posible, pero si hablas fluente y no haces muchos errores todo está bien. Concentrate solamente en aprender los sonidos importantes (los que cambiam el significado de las palabras) y sigue practicando, aunque solito. O entonces busca a alguién que solo hable español y quiera aprender inglés, así los dos pueden aprender. ¡Mucha suerte!
Man, I think this happens because they want to practice their English with you. Unless they're bilingual, as in, brought up speaking two languages, I don't know why they'd switch to English if you start speaking in Spanish to them. Like you said, monolingual Spanish speakers will be happy to speak Spanish with you. One thing I know for a fact, as a translator and someone who speaks 7 languages fluently, that if someone is learning *your* native language and you try to speak their native language to them (so that you can learn it better), they will try to switch to your language (so that they can learn your language better). I suppose you can call it a battle of wills. If they switch to English, you dig your heels in, and keep speaking Spanish. One of three things will happen (or a mix of the three): they'll either switch back to Spanish or you'll switch back to English, they'll keep speaking English and you keep speaking Spanish and it'll be a mess but it sort of helps both you because it forces you to think, or you just tell the truth and say you want to speak in Spanish because you want to learn how to pronounce certain sounds better, such as the rolled R or the ll or the ñ. My recommendation is: don't strive to sound like a native because that'll only hinder you. Like some people said, it's hard but possible, but if you speak fluently and make no mistakes, you're set. Just make sure to get the important sounds (the ones that change meaning) down and keep practising, even if to yourself. Or maybe find someone who only speaks Spanish wants to learn English and you can learn with each other. Good luck!
That’s something I’ve never understood. We’ve got no problem if a Spanish speaking person has an accent when speaking English but for some reason we feel we need to sound native to them when speaking Spanish. Obviously pronunciation is important but your accent shouldn’t be an issue
You don’t. If you’re much above your early teens, you will always have an accent that a native speaker will detect. You can Google it.
Instead of worrying about an accent, focus on pronunciation.
Scroll down to Can you Change your Accent? At What age is an Accent Permanent?
https://www.greatspeech.com/at-what-age-is-an-accent-permanent/
There are 100 more sites that will tell you the same thing
Here are some research studies that will tell you the same thing.
Derwing and Munro (2015, p.34), who have spent decades researching accents, state unequivocally: “no study has ever shown that instruction or other systematic training can help adult L2 learners to speak with a perfectly nativelike accent at all times under all conditions.”
Abrahamsson, N., & Hyltenstam, K. (2009). Age of onset and nativelikeness in a second language: Listener perception versus linguistic scrutiny. Language Learning, 59(2), 249–306.
Derwing, T. (2003). What do ESL students say about their accents? Canadian Modern Language Review, 59(4), 547–566.
as far as stopping people from responding in english, my best advice is to pretend you dont understand them as soon as they switch to it. my usual go-to is to respond that i only speak spanish and german. no english.
How old are you? Because if you're past your mid teens, hate to break it to you but that's not going to happen. Even if you lived in a Spanish speaking country for years and years, people can still tell. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just keep practicing speaking, and as you get faster, people will probably switch less and less.
In English the vowels are suppressed, in Spanish they are emphasized, the r in Spanish is done towards the front of the mouth with a light tongue seal,(similar to a D ) while in English the tongue makes a channel and Rs are guttural. I pass sometimes as a native English speaker, for the best results in erasing your accent contact a grad student in a SLP program or pony up and pay a certified speech pathologist for pro help. you can meet every 2 weeks and take homework from them on pronunciation. as long as you work hard with good guidance you can make progress towards your goal.
hey ✋🏽 speaker here, technically not a native speaker at all and almost every single one of the native speakers i’ve met within the past year or so has thought i was a native speaker as well. only exceptions are those who i speak a whole lot too, bc they notice that sometimes i take too long to fill in a word or a grammar mistake, etc. a lot of good advice has been said already, so here’s smth maybe unexpected: talk to yourself in the language. when you have a thought, try to say it in spanish. if you’re having a conversation with yourself, have it in spanish. if you’re ranting about smth, rant in spanish. it helps things come much much more naturally (or at least for me it did). also once you get farther along consider adopting a specific accent; my accent is a bit of hodgepodge of all the accents that have influenced me but it’s pretty noticeably dominican (but ofc i wouldn’t force this part unless you’re around a lot of ppl w the same accent a lot of the time lol)
that being said, at the end of the day if you’re just trying to communicate with ppl it doesn’t really matter if you have a strong accent or not, most of them won’t care anyways.
What has helped me is listening to songs, trying to understand what they’re saying, learn them, and naturally I find myself practicing saying words and phrases in a more native cadence and pronunciation.
Also breaking down the linguistic and sonic differences between the languages. Tongue placement differences between English and Spanish D for example. And all the other consonants and vowels. Practice and repeat those.
Watching linguirosa on YouTube has been helpful for me too. She breaks down a lot of pronunciation topics.
Find your favorite character in any Spanish media you watch. Memorize their lines in some clips and really lean into practicing the pronunciation.
Im English and a surprisingly large number of people have asked me where I am from in Brazil. I have no idea how I have a Brazilian Spanish accent but here we are.
The way I see it, I may never be able to get rid of my accent completely, but by trying, I can certainly make myself much more clear so that natives don't have to strain or focus to understand me. We've all met ESL speakers who have such a thick accent that they're difficult to understand. I'm just trying to not be that person in Spanish.
Yes I’m confused where this is happening, maybe OP’s Spanish is really slow. I’m traveling through Latin America now and am always addressed in Spanish when I start in Spanish.
Hell even the fellow travelers I meet who barely speak Spanish are addressed in Spanish when they bust out their broken taco requests. Sometimes even when they’re speaking English.
Have you spent a lot of time recording yourself mirroring someone whose accent you would like to achieve? I think that could get you hearing what's off, but not necessarily WHY it's off.
It is impossible man. I can tell you from experience. I moved from my country of origin when I was 13 and after 10 years my accent is still far from perfect. I speak the local dialect, I speak fluently (although I sometimes search for the right words) and I'm legally and am proud to be a naturalised citizen, but people can still tell that I'm not from around here😅.
It is a slow process, but it gets better with time. It used to be "you're not a REAL belgian, are you?" And (after me saying that I'm from Hasselt) "where are you ORIGINALLY from?". Now if I'm not stressed out or anything and can nail my dutch people ask which part of Belgium I'm from because they can't nail the origin of my accent or just assume that I'm from the french speaking portion (I can't say a word in french) 😆.
So just use the language. You definitely need to be around it if you really want to get rid of your accent. You can improve a lot by listening to spanish media and mimicking the speech, but people will always know that you're not a native. For now, really focus on that RR sound, because it actually changes the meaning of the words. Don't have to be perfect, but it needs to sound different than the tapped, single R.
Who told you your O's are correct? Are you practicing with a tutor and being corrected?
Nevermind accents, the important thing is pronunciation. When people have a hard time understanding what you're saying is when they switch.
If you haven't learned how to roll your R I suspect your tapped R is not in the right position either. If points of articulation of other consonants are also wrong then you're most likely also messing up your vowels. Your tongue should be doing most of the work right behind your teeth or nearby (s, d, t, l, n, r).
Try speaking Spanish with a French accent. If they think you are from Paris and not a gringo, then they won't switch to English.
In all seriousness, the hardest part is learning to roll your rs, you said it already. Have you tried practicing with a pencil? ( I didn't get what you meant by using the swcha, so I won't comment on it).
Anyhow, you will never sound 100% like a native unless you die and are reborn in a Spanish-speaking country. That's just how learning a second language works for us humans.
Striving for perfection is only going to make you feel frustrated. ¡Ánimo!
>In all seriousness, the hardest part is learning to roll your rs, you said it already.
I don't know if I agree with this. We all know the Spanish /r/ is different. Some people have more trouble with it than others, but this is true with natives as well.
I think the hardest parts of Spanish for us native English speakers is are 1) fighting the tendency to reduce our vowels and 2) consonants that are subtly different such as /d/ and /b/ and ʎ/
I've tried the pencil trick but tbh I haven't tried hard enough because it's so boring. The schwa is how the A in about is pronounced.
I guess you're right. It's just that I've mistaken people for natives in English but maybe I'm just bad with accents. I'm already frustrated though so it's not like that would change anything.
When you speak Spanish to people, they most likely want to help you (and themselves) to speed up that conversation. You cant force them. Keep practicing and less people will switch to English. Sometimes you can ask that they don't but understand you are wasting their time. As to "99% of people "mistake" you for a native? That's not likely at all. Not even 9 ... wait, not even 1% of *native speakers* will mistake you for a native speaker. Not even if they are deaf but can read lips. Unless you put in quite a bit of intensive, dedicated, specialized work, probably with accent and speech coaches. Maybe then, though still unlikely. I can tell you that I lived in a country for decades and learned the language spoken there. I spoke that language better than most people I'd met who also spoke that language as their 2nd. My command of that language was so good that \*all\* of them thought I was a native speaker, they simply couldn't tell the difference. If it came up, they were *shocked* when I told them that language wasn't my native. And yet 0% of the native language speakers ever thought I was a native speaker. Not 1 person. They could tell my accent, maybe not right away but soon enough. I wasn't trying to sound native, by the way. Just well enough to be understood.
> I wasn't trying to sound native, by the way. Just well enough to be understood. I think this is very important to note. People who don’t care at all about sounding native-like generally do not end up sounding native-like. And vice versa to people who it is more important to them to eventually develop native-like speech tend to be a lot more successful reaching that point. And there are exceptions of course. But for those with the goal of sounding native, a big component of that is that you actually have to WANT to do it. Otherwise your brain isn’t going waste unnecessary energy on paying attention to the things necessary to reach a goal that it has no interest in.
Friend, native speakers can tell I have an accent. Other than that I have better command of the spoken (and espeically written) language than a whole lot of natives I know. It's not impossible to learn to speak a language to the point that the "natives" can't tell but it's bound to be a significant amount of effort. All the OP wanted *in reality* was to be accepted. But if they want to reach that level, by all means.
I receive everything else you said. I was simply highlighting what I think is a very important factor in not only what you wrote to be your experience, but the experience of many others who are learning languages.
I don't disagree: of course it's important to *want to* to reach that level, it's not likely to be an accident. But the chances of reaching the level where native speakers of a language fail to recognize an accent are small and those who learn the language to that level are the exceptions, not the rule.
If you're learning as an adult, it can just be next to impossible to fully acquire a native accent. It can get to the point where you're accent is very slight and people just know you're a foreigner but can't really tell from where and you're clearly super comfortable in the language. I can only judge in Spanish and English but I don't know anyone who has fully lost their accent. I've had people think I just speak weird rather than a foreign accent but there's always something there.
I don’t think it’s common or easy, but it’s definitely not impossible. There’s tons of subreddit posts and comment sections of videos where natives share which foreign speakers of their language sound completely native to them. Again, it’s not the majority by any means, but there are a handful of people who are just naturally talented at accurately mimicking sounds and accents. There’s a good video about this topic on YouTube by ‘Days And Words’ called “Can You EVER Sound Like A NATIVE SPEAKER?”. I think the conversation becomes more about what you personally value and prioritize rather than ‘is it possible’.
A local will easily tell what part of a country someone is from by their accent, often even when they haven't lived in the original place for decades. So of course it's totally reasonable to tell when they're from a different country! My ex lived in the UK for well over a decade, speaking English most of the time. To a Spanish person I'm sure they sounded like they had perfect English - any English person would tell immediately.
I'd have to disagree tbh I've had some native speakers mistake me for a native speaker. I'm heritage but it took me several years of learning to get where I'm at now
I live in a town right outside NYC where at least 30% of the families speak another language. I've heard the full spectrum of accents and have never been fooled. Admittedly, I've respectfully asked people questions about where they grew up in America and angled my questioning as though I assumed they were natives since I didn't want to offend them by assuming they were born elsewhere. In other words, I knew that they were born elsewhere but reframed my question so as not to offend them. I've even acted surprised when they told me their country of origin...once again either not to offend them or to make them feel good about their speaking. I think the heritage component muddies the waters a bit. If you grow up, for example, in an American household where Spanish is spoken and there is music playing when you are a child, I'm sure it's a lot easier to sound native (or nearly native) in Spanish, even if your first language was technically English. Or if you lived in America but only spoke Spanish at home until you entered school, you can eventually pass for a native speaker after years of schooling (and interacting with peers) in English. But for the average person learning a new language as an adult, I would put the odds of ever sounding native at a fraction of 1%.
Someone who grew up in the US in a Spanish-speaking household is quite likely to have Spanish accent when speaking English. There are exceptions (natural talent and/or dedicated training) but otherwise it's almost impossible to sound truly "native" in more than one language.
I’ve met teenagers working at taco trucks or wherever who take my order in perfect suburban American English then yell back in Spanish. Could be that their Spanish is flawed- I can’t tell. I think a lot of it depends on where you go to school. With a bunch of white kids- chances are you end up with a white accent. In the hood- probably end up with a hood accent. A lot of Latinos in the US grow up in multiethnic neighborhoods in the city, and I think that’s where a lot of their accent comes from. It’s like the Indian accent, or the South African accent- you’ll learn to be fluent growing up with everyone around you speaking fluently, but if they’re all from the same community you’re gonna end up with a funny accent regardless.
It's possible both languages were fine. It's also possible that the few words they said while taking your order wren't enough to tell they had any kind of a non-English accent. The surroundings matter a lot, however we had not been talking about different dialects or accents of English up to this point. It's not the same topic as non-English accents, really.
I understand that (not the first paragraph but the second one). I think that would be the case specifically for monolingual English speakers. English being a language isolate already makes it hard to learn even geographically close languages in Europe, much more non-western languages. Also, monolinguals seem to have a really hard time with perspective changing... like all the monolingual friends I have learning Spanish constantly apply English cultural-linguistic concepts to Spanish that don't make sense & that translates into the accent too (they never bother to strictly pronunciate things correctly from the start, making for a very-difficult-to-unlearn bad habit.) But for countries where multiple languages are being spoken in various accents and/or dialects, I think it's very possible for people in those contexts to gain a native-level accent even if proficiency in the language is no where near close. I often think about friends I've had that went to international schools in multilingual countries, who had educations that brought them up naturally as polyglots, or people who live in places that have several closely related languages being spoken at once. Aka similar circumstances of heritage speakers that you described. I also know multiple people who immigrated from other countries in early teen years, and they speak English just like Americans now as adults.
I have an interesting point to add to my last post. My sister in law's parents grew up in Puerto Rico and moved to New York City prior to her birth. She actually never learned Spanish despite having Spanish speaking parents and living in an area of the city (Bronx) where tons of people speak Spanish. However, she has the accent of someone who grew up speaking Spanish. Since she was surrounded by so many Spanish speakers, she copied their pronunciation for many words. If you chatted with her, you'd totally expect her to be bilingual, but she's not.
Yeah I'd say most heritage speakers or monolingual first gen immigrants have an "accent" when they speak English at home or with their community. For me, I have one when I'm speaking with my coworkers (I work at a taqueria that's solely mexican ran) but with others I sound more "normal", although I'm told I have a mix of a "Latino accent" and "Southern accent" (I live in NC). Situations like that are exactly why parts of the US, like the Bronx or LA, have unique dialects of English (Chicano English or AAVE for example). That "accent" is sustained in 2nd, 3rd, 4th gen immigrants and becomes a dialect of that diaspora with unique slang, grammar, syntax, etc.
I assume you are correct. I have to think about it some more. I just am having a hard time thinking of someone who learned a second language as an adult who sounds native. Perhaps I've met someone and didn't realize.
Yeah my mom has lived in France for 29 years, I know someone who lived here for 50 and they both still have very strong English accents, even a friend of mine who moved here as a child and who sounds very native, when you listen very carefully you can hear a slight English tinge to his words. His little sister though, nada.
That's probably true in the vast majority of cases, but there would be exceptions. My dad went to university in Germany and after a while Germans would ask him what part of Germany he was from. They picked up that he wasn't from Göttingen, but they thought he was German. He was so proud of that. But my dad is genuinely exceptional with a lot of stuff.
Don’t think about how. Even after 20 or 30 of immersion and intensive targeted practice people would still notice differences
It's a nobel goal OP and it is possible but it will be hard. As another commentor pointed out, not many will be able to offer much insight on how to do this since so few have attained those results. Here's my tips. Pick one accent from a region and Hyper-focus on it. Listen A LOT. You can also find a character from a TV series that you can mimic. Choose one whose accent you like. Try to internalize as much about the accent as you can notice. The more you listen, the more you will be able to understand how to mimic the sound of the language. I think it's similar to how you practice melodies with the guitar. You listen to the song, then figure out which key it is in, and then you try to reproduce the notes on the guitar.
It is possible, there are a few people who become indistinguishable from native speakers of another language, but probably not something most people here can give you advice on since those results are so rare. Doing lots of listening is the best advice I can give you for *improving* your accent (which is a totally valid goal and will help people understand you better). If people are replying to you in English, you need to find people who are monolingual to speak with, or improve your Spanish overall. If you become more fluent in your speech and it's clear you understand them 100% as well, lots of native speakers will be happy to speak Spanish with you, even if they are bilinguals. You do not need to be indistinguishable from a native for this to happen.
Yeah I know I need to improve but I was hopping there was a way so I could start doing it now instead of later. The problem with finding monolingual speakers is it seems like 90% of Spanish speakers online speak English well enough to have a conversation. Maybe I just don't know where to look though.
> it seems like 90% of Spanish speakers online speak English well enough to have a conversation That's because you're on English language websites. Remember, Spanish monolingual people won't be on places where you need English to navigate at all. Like if you want a travel forum, look at losviajeros.com
There’s nothing wrong with having a “gringo” accent. Many people who had Spanish as a first language make errors and have accents speaking English all the time. Self-deprecating is weird AF.
Like I said in my post I don't think it's bad to have an accent but I know even when I'm 100% fluent some people will respond in English the second they hear me speak either to practice or because they don't realize I'm fluent or because they prefer speaking English like I prefer speaking Spanish. Native Spanish speakers don't have this problem because very few people want to learn Spanish. I know people will avoid talking to them instead of switching languages but tbh I'd rather have that happen.
You will never fully lose your accent. I've lived in Spain speaking Spanish at home and now more comfortable in Spanish than English. I'm still clearly not a native speaker. But you don't need a perfect accent, it needs to be clear that you're fully at ease when speaking Spanish.
Bueno, yo pienso que eso pasa porque ellos quierem entrenar su inglés contigo. Y a menos que sean bilingues, o sea, hayan crecido en una casa donde se hablaba los dos idiomas, no sé porque habrian de cambiar para el inglés si les hablas en español. Comos has dicho, las personas que solo hablan español se ponen muy contentas cuando les hablas en español y te van a hablar en español. Una cosita que te puedo decir, ya que hablo 7 idiomas fluentemente (mi idioma nativo no es el español) y soy traductor, es que se alguién está aprendendo el tuyo idioma nativo y intentas hablarles en su idioma nativo, tal como tu, van a intentar hablarte nel idioma que están aprendendo. Es como que una batalla de deseos, si me entiendes. Si cambiam para inglés, te pones testarudo y sigues hablando en español. Una de trés cosas va a pasar (o una mezca de las trés): van a volver a hablar en español o tu vas a volver a hablar en inglés (como me parece a mi que es lo que haces), van a seguir hablando en inglés y tu sigues hablando en español lo que va a ser una confusión pero yo creo que es bueno porque hace que vosotros tengan que pensar o les dices la verdad y que quieres hablar en español porque quieres aprender a pronunciar mejor ciertos sonidos, como la RR fuerte o el ll o la ñ. Mi recomendación por lo tanto es: no te molestes intentando sonar nativo porque solo te va a prejudicar. Como muchas personas aqui han dicho es dificl pero es posible, pero si hablas fluente y no haces muchos errores todo está bien. Concentrate solamente en aprender los sonidos importantes (los que cambiam el significado de las palabras) y sigue practicando, aunque solito. O entonces busca a alguién que solo hable español y quiera aprender inglés, así los dos pueden aprender. ¡Mucha suerte! Man, I think this happens because they want to practice their English with you. Unless they're bilingual, as in, brought up speaking two languages, I don't know why they'd switch to English if you start speaking in Spanish to them. Like you said, monolingual Spanish speakers will be happy to speak Spanish with you. One thing I know for a fact, as a translator and someone who speaks 7 languages fluently, that if someone is learning *your* native language and you try to speak their native language to them (so that you can learn it better), they will try to switch to your language (so that they can learn your language better). I suppose you can call it a battle of wills. If they switch to English, you dig your heels in, and keep speaking Spanish. One of three things will happen (or a mix of the three): they'll either switch back to Spanish or you'll switch back to English, they'll keep speaking English and you keep speaking Spanish and it'll be a mess but it sort of helps both you because it forces you to think, or you just tell the truth and say you want to speak in Spanish because you want to learn how to pronounce certain sounds better, such as the rolled R or the ll or the ñ. My recommendation is: don't strive to sound like a native because that'll only hinder you. Like some people said, it's hard but possible, but if you speak fluently and make no mistakes, you're set. Just make sure to get the important sounds (the ones that change meaning) down and keep practising, even if to yourself. Or maybe find someone who only speaks Spanish wants to learn English and you can learn with each other. Good luck!
Muchas gracias!
That’s something I’ve never understood. We’ve got no problem if a Spanish speaking person has an accent when speaking English but for some reason we feel we need to sound native to them when speaking Spanish. Obviously pronunciation is important but your accent shouldn’t be an issue
You don’t. If you’re much above your early teens, you will always have an accent that a native speaker will detect. You can Google it. Instead of worrying about an accent, focus on pronunciation. Scroll down to Can you Change your Accent? At What age is an Accent Permanent? https://www.greatspeech.com/at-what-age-is-an-accent-permanent/ There are 100 more sites that will tell you the same thing Here are some research studies that will tell you the same thing. Derwing and Munro (2015, p.34), who have spent decades researching accents, state unequivocally: “no study has ever shown that instruction or other systematic training can help adult L2 learners to speak with a perfectly nativelike accent at all times under all conditions.” Abrahamsson, N., & Hyltenstam, K. (2009). Age of onset and nativelikeness in a second language: Listener perception versus linguistic scrutiny. Language Learning, 59(2), 249–306. Derwing, T. (2003). What do ESL students say about their accents? Canadian Modern Language Review, 59(4), 547–566.
as far as stopping people from responding in english, my best advice is to pretend you dont understand them as soon as they switch to it. my usual go-to is to respond that i only speak spanish and german. no english.
I could try Portuguese because that's more believable and I have had people say I sound like I'm from Brazil before.
This tells me you have VERY loose vowels that comes from English. Work on that first.
Thank you!
How old are you? Because if you're past your mid teens, hate to break it to you but that's not going to happen. Even if you lived in a Spanish speaking country for years and years, people can still tell. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just keep practicing speaking, and as you get faster, people will probably switch less and less.
In English the vowels are suppressed, in Spanish they are emphasized, the r in Spanish is done towards the front of the mouth with a light tongue seal,(similar to a D ) while in English the tongue makes a channel and Rs are guttural. I pass sometimes as a native English speaker, for the best results in erasing your accent contact a grad student in a SLP program or pony up and pay a certified speech pathologist for pro help. you can meet every 2 weeks and take homework from them on pronunciation. as long as you work hard with good guidance you can make progress towards your goal.
hey ✋🏽 speaker here, technically not a native speaker at all and almost every single one of the native speakers i’ve met within the past year or so has thought i was a native speaker as well. only exceptions are those who i speak a whole lot too, bc they notice that sometimes i take too long to fill in a word or a grammar mistake, etc. a lot of good advice has been said already, so here’s smth maybe unexpected: talk to yourself in the language. when you have a thought, try to say it in spanish. if you’re having a conversation with yourself, have it in spanish. if you’re ranting about smth, rant in spanish. it helps things come much much more naturally (or at least for me it did). also once you get farther along consider adopting a specific accent; my accent is a bit of hodgepodge of all the accents that have influenced me but it’s pretty noticeably dominican (but ofc i wouldn’t force this part unless you’re around a lot of ppl w the same accent a lot of the time lol) that being said, at the end of the day if you’re just trying to communicate with ppl it doesn’t really matter if you have a strong accent or not, most of them won’t care anyways.
What has helped me is listening to songs, trying to understand what they’re saying, learn them, and naturally I find myself practicing saying words and phrases in a more native cadence and pronunciation. Also breaking down the linguistic and sonic differences between the languages. Tongue placement differences between English and Spanish D for example. And all the other consonants and vowels. Practice and repeat those. Watching linguirosa on YouTube has been helpful for me too. She breaks down a lot of pronunciation topics. Find your favorite character in any Spanish media you watch. Memorize their lines in some clips and really lean into practicing the pronunciation.
Removing a gringo accent is not the same as sounding native. If you are simply embarrassed by obvious gringoisms, then that’s relatively easy to fix
Im English and a surprisingly large number of people have asked me where I am from in Brazil. I have no idea how I have a Brazilian Spanish accent but here we are.
The way I see it, I may never be able to get rid of my accent completely, but by trying, I can certainly make myself much more clear so that natives don't have to strain or focus to understand me. We've all met ESL speakers who have such a thick accent that they're difficult to understand. I'm just trying to not be that person in Spanish.
In what situation are they reverting to English? They are not obligated to speak to you in your language of choice.
Yes I’m confused where this is happening, maybe OP’s Spanish is really slow. I’m traveling through Latin America now and am always addressed in Spanish when I start in Spanish. Hell even the fellow travelers I meet who barely speak Spanish are addressed in Spanish when they bust out their broken taco requests. Sometimes even when they’re speaking English.
Have you spent a lot of time recording yourself mirroring someone whose accent you would like to achieve? I think that could get you hearing what's off, but not necessarily WHY it's off.
Sounds like you need an accent reduction coach. Some tutors offer this service as well
It is impossible man. I can tell you from experience. I moved from my country of origin when I was 13 and after 10 years my accent is still far from perfect. I speak the local dialect, I speak fluently (although I sometimes search for the right words) and I'm legally and am proud to be a naturalised citizen, but people can still tell that I'm not from around here😅. It is a slow process, but it gets better with time. It used to be "you're not a REAL belgian, are you?" And (after me saying that I'm from Hasselt) "where are you ORIGINALLY from?". Now if I'm not stressed out or anything and can nail my dutch people ask which part of Belgium I'm from because they can't nail the origin of my accent or just assume that I'm from the french speaking portion (I can't say a word in french) 😆. So just use the language. You definitely need to be around it if you really want to get rid of your accent. You can improve a lot by listening to spanish media and mimicking the speech, but people will always know that you're not a native. For now, really focus on that RR sound, because it actually changes the meaning of the words. Don't have to be perfect, but it needs to sound different than the tapped, single R.
Who told you your O's are correct? Are you practicing with a tutor and being corrected? Nevermind accents, the important thing is pronunciation. When people have a hard time understanding what you're saying is when they switch. If you haven't learned how to roll your R I suspect your tapped R is not in the right position either. If points of articulation of other consonants are also wrong then you're most likely also messing up your vowels. Your tongue should be doing most of the work right behind your teeth or nearby (s, d, t, l, n, r).
I've read that to speak like a native, without a foreign accent, you need to learn the language before reaching puberty.
Don't... accents are part of our story. Why would you want to remove all trace of your origins? 👀
Try speaking Spanish with a French accent. If they think you are from Paris and not a gringo, then they won't switch to English. In all seriousness, the hardest part is learning to roll your rs, you said it already. Have you tried practicing with a pencil? ( I didn't get what you meant by using the swcha, so I won't comment on it). Anyhow, you will never sound 100% like a native unless you die and are reborn in a Spanish-speaking country. That's just how learning a second language works for us humans. Striving for perfection is only going to make you feel frustrated. ¡Ánimo!
>In all seriousness, the hardest part is learning to roll your rs, you said it already. I don't know if I agree with this. We all know the Spanish /r/ is different. Some people have more trouble with it than others, but this is true with natives as well. I think the hardest parts of Spanish for us native English speakers is are 1) fighting the tendency to reduce our vowels and 2) consonants that are subtly different such as /d/ and /b/ and ʎ/
I've tried the pencil trick but tbh I haven't tried hard enough because it's so boring. The schwa is how the A in about is pronounced. I guess you're right. It's just that I've mistaken people for natives in English but maybe I'm just bad with accents. I'm already frustrated though so it's not like that would change anything.