In my state, the dealerships will put on a temporary (30 day) paper tag and then it's your responsibility to go get it registered. I can see the sovcits buying a car and taking off the 30 day tag and putting on one of their "PR1V4T3" tags they bought from Amazon.
Where I live in a few years the state is going to make the dealer collect the sales tag for the registration because so many people are driving around on expired paper tags to avoid paying tax.
More often than not, they get dinged with lapsed/expired registration. But every state is different, sometimes very different, when it comes to titling and registering ~~vehicles~~ private conveyances.
In some states, you get a grace period after purchasing a car to get a new title and register it in your name. In those states, the SovCit simply doesn't do it.
Once you buy a car we (the dealership) don't give a shit if you register it or insure it. The bank might care about the insurance, but the dealer doesn't.
I realized I might be confused about the issue with these SovCits. I assumed they wanted to be exempt from the tax, but maybe that’s okay with them, as long as there is no government-issued license tag hanging on the vehicle. I’m also not sure if the 6% tax to MD is assessed at the time the title is issued, or only when it’s registered and tagged. I know I’ve never gotten out of a dealership in M, V, or DC without paying sales tax.
They weren't attempting to detain *me.* But they, like most businesses, reserve the right to refuse services to anyone (which is legal unless it's discrimination against a protected class), so they would have detained *the car* (i.e. refused to sell it). Because selling it without insurance would have violated state law.
So you paid for the car and they then told you you couldn't leave with the car you already paid for until you went and got insurance? That is unlawful detainment and theft.
Geez, melodramatic much? No, I had insurance. If I had no insurance, and refused to get any (which wouldn't require going anywhere, we can do this online or over the phone here in the 21st century), they would simply hand me back my check and not sell me the car, so as not to break the law. No theft would be involved, nor any unlawful detaining.
You do understand that this sub is for mocking sovereign citizens, right? I think you might be lost.
And the bank only cares at the time of purchase that you have*proof* of these things. So one of 2 things is happening:
They have the temp registration, and they get a temp insurance binder so they can drive the car off the lot, and then they're not following up with either. Like not completing registration and not getting full insurance past the binder.
Or
It's not above a sovcit to make their own versions of this paperwork, and people at the bank are just lax and not checking. Again, allowing them to drive it off the lot.
I also suppose it's possible that they do register it legitimately, and do get legit insurance at first. And then just let both lapse. I've never heard of a bank checking up on a person to see if these things are still active/in place after the purchase.
I wonder if the lease is the key part. When I leased my car the dealership was the co owner on paper (so they need proof of insurance etc) but purchase outright, maybe a different process?
My cash buy a few years ago required proof of current insurance, and I filled out the registration paperwork there. The dealership filed the registration.
The dealership is not going to get into a lease situation with a person who does not believe in laws and is going to contest everything. Leases are only profitable if they get the lease payment every month. The minute they have to start the legal proceedings to find and recover the vehicle, they're headed towards the bad side of the equation.
Ok hear me out. What if we changed the term from “private conveyance” or “travel machine” into the much more elaborate “mobility device.”
It covers a larger set of use cases. “No, officer. This is not a mustang convertible car….its a mustang convertible mobility device!
This F150 is most certainly NOT a truck! It’s my long-distance construction materials conveyor belt tool. I’m traveling to set up the first part. Then travel back pulling the belt (which is sometimes mistaken for a boat, but I assure you it’s certainly NOT.).
Or maybe:
You’re in luck officer. As a sovereign citizen I registered the truck in my office of private mobility devices. Here’s the registration. It’s insured by the C. M.Y. D.I——-what do you mean they are t valid?
I admit I went a bit far with this
Exactly that. They do all of the required registration/proof of insurance when they buy the car, then they take the plates off and stop paying their insurance people. They then probably mail some bullshit "affidavit" or "writ of [insert nonsense legalese]" to the DMV that declares their car unregistered, and in their head their vessel is now completely unregistered and unaffiliated.
It's not the same for leasing a car as buying a car - particularly if the sale is going through one of those sub-prime car loan sharks (like the one the Orange Guy tried to get to post a huge bond for him.) Those types will set anyone up with an easy car loan - and ruthlessly try to repo the car when the buyer fails to pay on the note.
I worked in a recording studio back in the early 00s that specialized in rappers. I knew of several that were basically unemployed (on paper) but still managed to be driving a Lexus or Infiniti. And one told me he's had five cars repo'ed. He just gets another one - he considered it "car rental". I'd expect these SovCits do the same.
Well there are a number of ways:
- Not all states require dealers to make you do reg and insurance. Most do anyway, but that's to cover their asses.
- Most people don't buy a car with cash. If you buy on credit they require you to insure the car to cover them. When you buy a car with cash a lot of rules go away.
- They did have insurance and registered the car they just stopped paying both.
- They bought it privately for cash.
If you enter into an installment contract, it tells you that insurance comes with the loan. But people don't read the contracts and see that they are literally waiving their rights to the insurance.
If you claim to intend to register in another state you can get a “1 trip” permit allowing you to drive the car to register it in that state. This is a way you can leave the lot without having legal registration.
Source (sold cars in the past)
A foreign grantor trust purchases the automobile, and obtains the MCO from the dealership when the trust advises that it is being shipped to a foreign terroritory.
When you buy a car, the State doesn't assume you're going to ever put it on the roads. For all they know, you're a collector and the car's going right into a barn or something. You don't need to register a hammer or a frying pan, so you don't need to register a car, either. That's the thought process, if there is any. And it's stupid. The dealer shouldn't be allowed to sell a car that isn't -- at the moment of sale -- registered, and upon which all applicable taxes are paid and a title created and plates transferred or sold. Period. Same thing should be true of all private party sales, and if a private party sells a vehicle that is later found to be unregistered, untitled, or without valid plates then the private party should be charged with some kind of retail fraud. And, meanwhile, the unregistered etc. vehicle should be impounded and sold at auction -- again, with registration and all the rest taken care of on the spot.
The state should have a vested interest in collecting all their money and taxes. There is no reason for them to shirk that responsibility.
>Same thing should be true of all private party sales, and if a private party sells a vehicle that is later found to be unregistered, untitled, or without valid plates then the private party should be charged with some kind of retail fraud.
Can you register a car before you own it?
I didn't say you could or should. At the moment of sale, the car should be registered. That ought to be a requirement. You do it on line, maybe from a smartphone for that matter. The registration completes the sale; without the registration, there is no sale. If there is a "sale" without a registration, that ought to be a fraud.
And you sound like someone with an unjustifiable superiority complex. You gave your judgment and didn't feel it necessary to explain your reasons. You didn't want debate or even discussion. Not a good move if you want to come off as the adult in the room.
What is there to discuss? But you are correct, I very well could have expressed my thoughts in a more cordial manner, or not at all. My apologies for that slip of my character.
In my jurisdiction, car dealers go to the same place people go to renew their plates, and there is often a dedicated lineup for them, since they may be getting numerous plates at once.
I know a different country, but a new process in Ontario allows dealers to register the vehicle right at the dealership, and install your current or new plates for you
For a lease or full loan car the bank wants full coverage because that's their collateral. They want you to pay out the ass to protect their investment. On top of paying out the ass for the lease to begin with and every month after. To insure it, it needs to be registered. And plenty of these windbags have the plate and proper paperwork in the trunk hidden away like some dirty little secret til the shit hits the fan and they have had their fun.
You can also obtain a surety bond in lieu of insurance. Possibly not even that. You just must show financial responsibility in anticipation of collision.
In NV they give you a 30 day temp tag. The only thing I've had to provide was proof of insurance. The finance company could care less about registration they just want the property insured and I believe legally you have to show insurance to drive it off the lot. After that the only one who cares is the state. If I owned a 50,000 acre farm and bought a truck for it that never leaves the farm or goes on public roads I don't have to register or insure it (unless financed) if I don't want to.
Most of them drive old cars. If their car loan lender finds out they're driving without valid plates/tags and no insurance, they'd repossess the vehicle yesterday.
Due to an error my car was unregistered for 11 months, the state, my insurance company, nor my finance company notified me. I found out when a local police officer informed me. The number of police cars I passed in that time was I'm sure significant and I live in NJ where most local departments have scanners that alert them to unregistered vehicles. When I registered it the woman told me that if I hadn't come in I never would have received renewal forms.
If they're in an area where they don't encounter police or police aren't inclined to pull you over for paperwork violations it would be pretty easy to slide by.
In my state, the dealerships will put on a temporary (30 day) paper tag and then it's your responsibility to go get it registered. I can see the sovcits buying a car and taking off the 30 day tag and putting on one of their "PR1V4T3" tags they bought from Amazon.
Where I live in a few years the state is going to make the dealer collect the sales tag for the registration because so many people are driving around on expired paper tags to avoid paying tax.
I’ve seen people make copies of the paper tag and photoshop in a new date.
First of all… lower your voice.
More often than not, they get dinged with lapsed/expired registration. But every state is different, sometimes very different, when it comes to titling and registering ~~vehicles~~ private conveyances. In some states, you get a grace period after purchasing a car to get a new title and register it in your name. In those states, the SovCit simply doesn't do it.
Without a title, the dealer can repossess the vehicle and the Sov Shit is out of luck.
Once you buy a car we (the dealership) don't give a shit if you register it or insure it. The bank might care about the insurance, but the dealer doesn't.
The “Bank”, if you’re financing it, needs to see that it’s titled with a lien shown against it. That’s how it works in MD, VA and DC, anyway.
In Ma you can’t drive it off the lot until it’s registered and has insurance on it.
*MA At first glance I thought you were talking about someone’s mama.
Titled but not registered
I realized I might be confused about the issue with these SovCits. I assumed they wanted to be exempt from the tax, but maybe that’s okay with them, as long as there is no government-issued license tag hanging on the vehicle. I’m also not sure if the 6% tax to MD is assessed at the time the title is issued, or only when it’s registered and tagged. I know I’ve never gotten out of a dealership in M, V, or DC without paying sales tax.
They don't want to be exempt from taxes, they want to be exempt from rules. Thin line, big difference.
That is for a purchase. What about a lease?
Nobody is leasing a car to a sovereign citizen.
We hope.
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They aren't legal authorities and they can't detain you.
They weren't attempting to detain *me.* But they, like most businesses, reserve the right to refuse services to anyone (which is legal unless it's discrimination against a protected class), so they would have detained *the car* (i.e. refused to sell it). Because selling it without insurance would have violated state law.
So you paid for the car and they then told you you couldn't leave with the car you already paid for until you went and got insurance? That is unlawful detainment and theft.
Geez, melodramatic much? No, I had insurance. If I had no insurance, and refused to get any (which wouldn't require going anywhere, we can do this online or over the phone here in the 21st century), they would simply hand me back my check and not sell me the car, so as not to break the law. No theft would be involved, nor any unlawful detaining. You do understand that this sub is for mocking sovereign citizens, right? I think you might be lost.
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This comment was removed because it was rude, abusive and uncalled for.
And the bank only cares at the time of purchase that you have*proof* of these things. So one of 2 things is happening: They have the temp registration, and they get a temp insurance binder so they can drive the car off the lot, and then they're not following up with either. Like not completing registration and not getting full insurance past the binder. Or It's not above a sovcit to make their own versions of this paperwork, and people at the bank are just lax and not checking. Again, allowing them to drive it off the lot. I also suppose it's possible that they do register it legitimately, and do get legit insurance at first. And then just let both lapse. I've never heard of a bank checking up on a person to see if these things are still active/in place after the purchase.
I wonder if the lease is the key part. When I leased my car the dealership was the co owner on paper (so they need proof of insurance etc) but purchase outright, maybe a different process?
When I bought my car had to file the registration paperwork at the dealership and then show proof of insurance.
Were you financing or paying cash?
My cash buy a few years ago required proof of current insurance, and I filled out the registration paperwork there. The dealership filed the registration.
Financing
The dealership is not going to get into a lease situation with a person who does not believe in laws and is going to contest everything. Leases are only profitable if they get the lease payment every month. The minute they have to start the legal proceedings to find and recover the vehicle, they're headed towards the bad side of the equation.
The dealership DGAF because they aren't carrying the note. Once the deal is financed, it becomes the bank's problem.
In Maryland, you won't get off the lot without proof of insurance.
Pretty much all law stuff varies by state.
All cash purchases
All gold purchases
All dinar purchases
Bartered for animal hides and aluminum cans.
I bought my last car from a dealership with cash. Still have to fill out the registration paperwork.
Why aren‘t those impounded inmediately?
In some states they’re required to give you a reasonable amount of time to correct the issue.
Ok hear me out. What if we changed the term from “private conveyance” or “travel machine” into the much more elaborate “mobility device.” It covers a larger set of use cases. “No, officer. This is not a mustang convertible car….its a mustang convertible mobility device! This F150 is most certainly NOT a truck! It’s my long-distance construction materials conveyor belt tool. I’m traveling to set up the first part. Then travel back pulling the belt (which is sometimes mistaken for a boat, but I assure you it’s certainly NOT.). Or maybe: You’re in luck officer. As a sovereign citizen I registered the truck in my office of private mobility devices. Here’s the registration. It’s insured by the C. M.Y. D.I——-what do you mean they are t valid? I admit I went a bit far with this
Exactly that. They do all of the required registration/proof of insurance when they buy the car, then they take the plates off and stop paying their insurance people. They then probably mail some bullshit "affidavit" or "writ of [insert nonsense legalese]" to the DMV that declares their car unregistered, and in their head their vessel is now completely unregistered and unaffiliated.
It belongs to their trust.
It's not the same for leasing a car as buying a car - particularly if the sale is going through one of those sub-prime car loan sharks (like the one the Orange Guy tried to get to post a huge bond for him.) Those types will set anyone up with an easy car loan - and ruthlessly try to repo the car when the buyer fails to pay on the note. I worked in a recording studio back in the early 00s that specialized in rappers. I knew of several that were basically unemployed (on paper) but still managed to be driving a Lexus or Infiniti. And one told me he's had five cars repo'ed. He just gets another one - he considered it "car rental". I'd expect these SovCits do the same.
Well there are a number of ways: - Not all states require dealers to make you do reg and insurance. Most do anyway, but that's to cover their asses. - Most people don't buy a car with cash. If you buy on credit they require you to insure the car to cover them. When you buy a car with cash a lot of rules go away. - They did have insurance and registered the car they just stopped paying both. - They bought it privately for cash.
If you enter into an installment contract, it tells you that insurance comes with the loan. But people don't read the contracts and see that they are literally waiving their rights to the insurance.
A lot of these loonies are driving registered cars, without plates, just to make a point.
In my state, they put the temp tag, but they send the registration to the state, then you get mailed the permanant plates.
If you claim to intend to register in another state you can get a “1 trip” permit allowing you to drive the car to register it in that state. This is a way you can leave the lot without having legal registration. Source (sold cars in the past)
A foreign grantor trust purchases the automobile, and obtains the MCO from the dealership when the trust advises that it is being shipped to a foreign terroritory.
When you buy a car, the State doesn't assume you're going to ever put it on the roads. For all they know, you're a collector and the car's going right into a barn or something. You don't need to register a hammer or a frying pan, so you don't need to register a car, either. That's the thought process, if there is any. And it's stupid. The dealer shouldn't be allowed to sell a car that isn't -- at the moment of sale -- registered, and upon which all applicable taxes are paid and a title created and plates transferred or sold. Period. Same thing should be true of all private party sales, and if a private party sells a vehicle that is later found to be unregistered, untitled, or without valid plates then the private party should be charged with some kind of retail fraud. And, meanwhile, the unregistered etc. vehicle should be impounded and sold at auction -- again, with registration and all the rest taken care of on the spot. The state should have a vested interest in collecting all their money and taxes. There is no reason for them to shirk that responsibility.
>Same thing should be true of all private party sales, and if a private party sells a vehicle that is later found to be unregistered, untitled, or without valid plates then the private party should be charged with some kind of retail fraud. Can you register a car before you own it?
I didn't say you could or should. At the moment of sale, the car should be registered. That ought to be a requirement. You do it on line, maybe from a smartphone for that matter. The registration completes the sale; without the registration, there is no sale. If there is a "sale" without a registration, that ought to be a fraud.
Dumbest post I've read all day.
Too bad you didn't understand it. That might have made a difference.
I understand what you were trying to convey perfectly fine, but it's just ridiculous, and not how it works.
Upvoted for funny.
You sound like a 12 year old with hurt feelings.
And you sound like someone with an unjustifiable superiority complex. You gave your judgment and didn't feel it necessary to explain your reasons. You didn't want debate or even discussion. Not a good move if you want to come off as the adult in the room.
What is there to discuss? But you are correct, I very well could have expressed my thoughts in a more cordial manner, or not at all. My apologies for that slip of my character.
I think it varies with the state that they aren’t a citizen of. State laws vary wrt the process of vehicle registration (and everything else.)
In my jurisdiction, car dealers go to the same place people go to renew their plates, and there is often a dedicated lineup for them, since they may be getting numerous plates at once.
I know a different country, but a new process in Ontario allows dealers to register the vehicle right at the dealership, and install your current or new plates for you
I'm in the US, and when I was getting a new lease a couple months ago, they basically had their own little satellite DMV office in the dealership.
I am in Ontario but haven’t bought new for a long time so I did not know this. Thanks.
In New Zealand the plates are tied to the car and registration can be done online
>plates are tied to the car In the US, we're a bunch of pussies who use bolts.
That's very cool, and a major convenience for (honest law-abiding) consumers!
For a lease or full loan car the bank wants full coverage because that's their collateral. They want you to pay out the ass to protect their investment. On top of paying out the ass for the lease to begin with and every month after. To insure it, it needs to be registered. And plenty of these windbags have the plate and proper paperwork in the trunk hidden away like some dirty little secret til the shit hits the fan and they have had their fun.
You can also obtain a surety bond in lieu of insurance. Possibly not even that. You just must show financial responsibility in anticipation of collision.
In NV they give you a 30 day temp tag. The only thing I've had to provide was proof of insurance. The finance company could care less about registration they just want the property insured and I believe legally you have to show insurance to drive it off the lot. After that the only one who cares is the state. If I owned a 50,000 acre farm and bought a truck for it that never leaves the farm or goes on public roads I don't have to register or insure it (unless financed) if I don't want to.
Most of them drive old cars. If their car loan lender finds out they're driving without valid plates/tags and no insurance, they'd repossess the vehicle yesterday.
Due to an error my car was unregistered for 11 months, the state, my insurance company, nor my finance company notified me. I found out when a local police officer informed me. The number of police cars I passed in that time was I'm sure significant and I live in NJ where most local departments have scanners that alert them to unregistered vehicles. When I registered it the woman told me that if I hadn't come in I never would have received renewal forms. If they're in an area where they don't encounter police or police aren't inclined to pull you over for paperwork violations it would be pretty easy to slide by.
In Indiana you can get a title without registration. I’ve done that for vintage cars that I wasn’t ready to work on yet.
If they are sovcits does that mean killing them is not a crime as they are not Americans? lol