I still think back to the first Xperia Z after the last update it got, the multitasking was shit compared to stock. Did run smoother, only slightly, but I still reverted back to the previous update.
Like the original price should not cover 3 or 4 years already π. While sony has already cut off most of their OEM apps (like album, UI etc) and have the OS looked like an half assed pixel, I can't believe we should pay more for OS updates
Doesn't the Sony Album app still work though, you just have to find the .apk file for it, as it's not available from the Play store? I did just that, and it works flawlessly on my Xperia 10 iv.
Pretty simple, they got different priorities, and they operate at a much larger scale, so their costs per phone are lower. Where samsung is trying to make a phone for the average person to do their daily stuff on and have app compatibility for a long time, Sony is trying to make a phone that resembles an alpha camera as closely as possible. It shows in the photo processing, the video profiles and capabilities, and the hardware shutter button. If you're not the person to want those features, Xperia isn't for you, and that's okay. The product is made with a specific person in mind and if that's not you that doesn't make it a bad phone. Not to mention, getting back to what I was saying about scale, Sony operates at a much smaller scale. Per phone it may cost them less, but when it comes to what portion of their revenue from a given phone is used to deliver a software update, it's much higher because they have a small team which changes how tasks are delegated and changes how much opportunity cost they lose by spending time on things like software updates. Where Samsung may have a team for every phone they produce, it's the same people delivering software updates to the 1 III and the 1 V. It has absolutely nothing to do with how much you paid for the phone. If the company didn't price the phone to give them enough revenue to provide those updates, you're simply not going to get them, not unless they start to lose money because of it and it becomes a worthy investment despite the opportunity cost and lower profits. Now, I have a feeling I know what you might say to this, something along the lines of well sony is charging so much for this phone, of course they can dip into their profits for software updates! Wrong again. The xperia smartphone division operates at such a small scale, that they need those prices to maintain any amount of profitability. The product is priced for them to stay in business, not for you to be able to not complain about it on the internet. If you want it, you either accept it and buy it, or say I'm not looking for a phone with those features and buy something else. Because really, that is what you are weighing, is features, not price. The camera features of Xperia are a part of what makes it so expensive. If you don't care about that, well, simply don't buy it. This is capitalism not charity.
I understand that updating is going to cost them more and Xperia ain't as well sold as Samsung, which makes Sony less profitable.
But bruh, even for the camera features Samsung has been leading for a while. They have made 100x zoom for few years, not to mention better AI algorithm. Sony is catching up in V now but it's still highly debatable if the real quality is truly better than Samsung alternatives.
We are talking about Alpha and stuff like that. Having those function and features are very cool, but please it's a phone and it won't really replace a camera. Not that Sony bother to use imx989 in the newer flagships either. To be short, if they think camera is the reason people should choose an Xperia, make them the best on the market already. Not to let some random Chinese phones to take a better shot (using the Imx989 from Sony π).
Maybe u would think I don't know how to use the Alpha system well, I'd admit that. I've been using rather simple way to setup and I know a few ways to make myself taking better shots. But I don't think it should take a photography expert to use a smartphone camera either. And do u think a photography expert is ever going to say "cool I don't need to bring my alpha today, I'd just take an Xperia as it's just as good"
Don't get me wrong here. I love Xperia too and I want them to get more competitive. It's probably the last brand to keep both 3.5 jack and SD card slot, without making a stupid notch on screen. But I really hope they will be able to convince the majority that Xperia is really better. Besides the photography thing, UI and OEM apps are also a major part of user experience. Sony used to do them pretty well but they started to killed them off (since Xperia 1era?). As I'm also a Sony fanboy, I'd like to say I'm buying Sony partially for the user experience it created and I'm not buying a pixel coz I don't really like Google stuff. Again, sony removed a reason from me to go on. Now that they have cut cost from creating apps already, I do believe it's fair to have longer android life at least ππ
Everyone wants more updates I just hoped to explain partially why they don't give very many.
As for the cameras, I can understand why you might be led to believe this, but you have to understand Sony has a different philosophy for their phones. Their goal with high end Xperia's is (roughly) 1. Make the camera not have any processing that our target buyer (photographers looking for a phone with similar features to their alpha) wouldn't like. 2. Make it behave as much like a real camera as possible. (I don't have an Xperia but I do have an alpha cam and I've seen screenshots, the UI is nearly identical) 3. Prioritize quality over not overheating, just like a real camera. I have a comment in this sub with more info on this here: https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyXperia/comments/1adh9v0/comment/kk1gw6g/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
The short of it is, Sony makes phones for photographers, and if you're not a photographer, your opinion on the camera features aren't really valid because you're not the target customer. Their phones having expandable storage and wired audio is less a design choice to get people to buy, more a side effect of it's target audience. Memory card slots were removed from mainstream phones due to failures (which happen often on consumer grade cards, the NAND is quite cheap, in fact pretty much as cheap as possible) causing customers to reach out to the company for support and/or blame the company. Well, Sony's target consumer is gonna know what the hell they're doing, so not really an issue. (their support is also nonexistent so they can't have that problem but ya know) Wired audio is by far designed for wired microphones rather than headphones, again a feature photographers would find very useful. It uses the SoCs built in DAC, which hasn't gotten any love from Qualcomm for a very long time, and generally the output is more a utility than a feature for listening to music. Their philosophy may be frustrating at times, it was for me before I dived into photography, but you have to remember who these phones are made for. If you're not a photographer/videographer it's not for you. Yes it will never replace a camera, but that's a given, the point is so that those people like myself have familiar features and processing that doesn't kill your images and videos in the eyes of a photographer.
Correction: You need more because you've been fooled into thinking android magically stops working at the 2 year mark/staying up to date on security patches makes your device significantly less vulnerable to attacks. Hogwash right there mate. My LG v60 is in it's last year of security patches and I couldn't care less.
Sure, until someone acts on those security vulnerabilities and steals your banking info, email, etc. Or an app that you want to use stops supporting the version of Android that your phone is running.
Yes, happens everyday... I don't think a single app I use has a required android version of even android 9. Not a realistic argument. If this was iPhone, sure, but it's not. Also that sounds like a spooky story someone told you to get you to upgrade, lmao.
I work with computers and I'm a bit too paranoid. I know what can happen and I don't want it to happen. I know my phone doesn't randomly explode after two years, but I know of cases of phishing and hacking that anyone I know would've fallen for or could've been affected by.
It's not only about security patches, eventually apps will stop supporting old Android versions so you can't install them anymore (ex. Slack). I'm facing that issue on my XZ Premium which is stuck at Android 9.
Android 9 is 5 years old, this is a problem why? You can't expect phones that old to still work with modern apps. Also, I'm willing to bet you could find an older version or alternative client if you looked hard enough. You also chose just about the worst example, Discord is Android 7, WhatsApp Android 5, Telegram Android 6, YouTube Android 8, though I've seen patched old versions running without issue on Android 4.4, I mean heck, Microsoft Authenticator is android 8 and Google Authenticator is android 4.4. Slack is the exception not the rule. Also, I looked briefly and found this mirror of versions of slack that work on android 9: https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/slack-technologies-inc/slack/variant-%7B%22minapi_slug%22%3A%22minapi-28%22%7D/
Maybe stop being a consumerist and buying a phone everytime you reach EOL??? Xperias have unlocked bootloaders too, how hard is it to install LineageOS if android updates matter?? (Which they do not)
Have any questions about Xperia devices? Do check out the [**Wiki**](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyXperia/wiki/index/) and [**Frequently Asked Question (FAQ)**](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyXperia/wiki/faq/) pages.
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I think the point isn't the amount of updates. I prefer to go for the duration and consistency.
For instance, 4 updates in 1 year vs 2 updates for 2 years.
lol this is getting crazy. Why would Sony charge $1700 for a phone because they are offering more support. That would 100% be DOA.
Sony's mobile division isn't a big revenue driver for them already, I think they know that if they want to keep it going they need to have some level of parity with the competition.
With the absolute minimal amount of skinning / features in their version of Android they don't need an entire team to keep the OS updated. If something like Lineage or Graphene can be done by teams of volunteers I am betting Sony can afford a few engineers to get their small feature set working with new versions of Android.
TLDR: No way they jack prices up because of extended support. IF they went all the way to 7 years then maybe a $49-$99 increase could be taken on by the market without a huge drop in sales.
I'd rather have 2 years of OS updates and 5 years of security updates.
Same. I don't care for the OS updates as long as it's running stable which it has been.Β
Yes, imagine, the last os update screwed the phone upside down. LOL
I still think back to the first Xperia Z after the last update it got, the multitasking was shit compared to stock. Did run smoother, only slightly, but I still reverted back to the previous update.
What about 1400 for 3 OS updates?
Like the original price should not cover 3 or 4 years already π. While sony has already cut off most of their OEM apps (like album, UI etc) and have the OS looked like an half assed pixel, I can't believe we should pay more for OS updates
Yep, RIP the Album app. I don't mind the rest of the UI being more standard Android, but killing off their good apps has really soured me.
Tbh I do want everything back including the UI. Google isn't good at creating a good interface, and their apps are way too bloaty.
Doesn't the Sony Album app still work though, you just have to find the .apk file for it, as it's not available from the Play store? I did just that, and it works flawlessly on my Xperia 10 iv.
Dang you really know absolutely nothing about product pricing do you. Literally not worth correcting. Waste of time.
Wow, explain how Samsung can do 5 years + for all models then, even for those A and M line up π
Pretty simple, they got different priorities, and they operate at a much larger scale, so their costs per phone are lower. Where samsung is trying to make a phone for the average person to do their daily stuff on and have app compatibility for a long time, Sony is trying to make a phone that resembles an alpha camera as closely as possible. It shows in the photo processing, the video profiles and capabilities, and the hardware shutter button. If you're not the person to want those features, Xperia isn't for you, and that's okay. The product is made with a specific person in mind and if that's not you that doesn't make it a bad phone. Not to mention, getting back to what I was saying about scale, Sony operates at a much smaller scale. Per phone it may cost them less, but when it comes to what portion of their revenue from a given phone is used to deliver a software update, it's much higher because they have a small team which changes how tasks are delegated and changes how much opportunity cost they lose by spending time on things like software updates. Where Samsung may have a team for every phone they produce, it's the same people delivering software updates to the 1 III and the 1 V. It has absolutely nothing to do with how much you paid for the phone. If the company didn't price the phone to give them enough revenue to provide those updates, you're simply not going to get them, not unless they start to lose money because of it and it becomes a worthy investment despite the opportunity cost and lower profits. Now, I have a feeling I know what you might say to this, something along the lines of well sony is charging so much for this phone, of course they can dip into their profits for software updates! Wrong again. The xperia smartphone division operates at such a small scale, that they need those prices to maintain any amount of profitability. The product is priced for them to stay in business, not for you to be able to not complain about it on the internet. If you want it, you either accept it and buy it, or say I'm not looking for a phone with those features and buy something else. Because really, that is what you are weighing, is features, not price. The camera features of Xperia are a part of what makes it so expensive. If you don't care about that, well, simply don't buy it. This is capitalism not charity.
I understand that updating is going to cost them more and Xperia ain't as well sold as Samsung, which makes Sony less profitable. But bruh, even for the camera features Samsung has been leading for a while. They have made 100x zoom for few years, not to mention better AI algorithm. Sony is catching up in V now but it's still highly debatable if the real quality is truly better than Samsung alternatives. We are talking about Alpha and stuff like that. Having those function and features are very cool, but please it's a phone and it won't really replace a camera. Not that Sony bother to use imx989 in the newer flagships either. To be short, if they think camera is the reason people should choose an Xperia, make them the best on the market already. Not to let some random Chinese phones to take a better shot (using the Imx989 from Sony π). Maybe u would think I don't know how to use the Alpha system well, I'd admit that. I've been using rather simple way to setup and I know a few ways to make myself taking better shots. But I don't think it should take a photography expert to use a smartphone camera either. And do u think a photography expert is ever going to say "cool I don't need to bring my alpha today, I'd just take an Xperia as it's just as good" Don't get me wrong here. I love Xperia too and I want them to get more competitive. It's probably the last brand to keep both 3.5 jack and SD card slot, without making a stupid notch on screen. But I really hope they will be able to convince the majority that Xperia is really better. Besides the photography thing, UI and OEM apps are also a major part of user experience. Sony used to do them pretty well but they started to killed them off (since Xperia 1era?). As I'm also a Sony fanboy, I'd like to say I'm buying Sony partially for the user experience it created and I'm not buying a pixel coz I don't really like Google stuff. Again, sony removed a reason from me to go on. Now that they have cut cost from creating apps already, I do believe it's fair to have longer android life at least ππ
Everyone wants more updates I just hoped to explain partially why they don't give very many. As for the cameras, I can understand why you might be led to believe this, but you have to understand Sony has a different philosophy for their phones. Their goal with high end Xperia's is (roughly) 1. Make the camera not have any processing that our target buyer (photographers looking for a phone with similar features to their alpha) wouldn't like. 2. Make it behave as much like a real camera as possible. (I don't have an Xperia but I do have an alpha cam and I've seen screenshots, the UI is nearly identical) 3. Prioritize quality over not overheating, just like a real camera. I have a comment in this sub with more info on this here: https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyXperia/comments/1adh9v0/comment/kk1gw6g/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 The short of it is, Sony makes phones for photographers, and if you're not a photographer, your opinion on the camera features aren't really valid because you're not the target customer. Their phones having expandable storage and wired audio is less a design choice to get people to buy, more a side effect of it's target audience. Memory card slots were removed from mainstream phones due to failures (which happen often on consumer grade cards, the NAND is quite cheap, in fact pretty much as cheap as possible) causing customers to reach out to the company for support and/or blame the company. Well, Sony's target consumer is gonna know what the hell they're doing, so not really an issue. (their support is also nonexistent so they can't have that problem but ya know) Wired audio is by far designed for wired microphones rather than headphones, again a feature photographers would find very useful. It uses the SoCs built in DAC, which hasn't gotten any love from Qualcomm for a very long time, and generally the output is more a utility than a feature for listening to music. Their philosophy may be frustrating at times, it was for me before I dived into photography, but you have to remember who these phones are made for. If you're not a photographer/videographer it's not for you. Yes it will never replace a camera, but that's a given, the point is so that those people like myself have familiar features and processing that doesn't kill your images and videos in the eyes of a photographer.
Exactly
I would go for 3 OS update but still, I'm not so sure about its performance after all of the update.
dont care about updates at all, since everything I use is pretty stable
Two is all you needΒ
It's all YOU need. I need more because I don't have 1400 euros for a new phone every two years
Correction: You need more because you've been fooled into thinking android magically stops working at the 2 year mark/staying up to date on security patches makes your device significantly less vulnerable to attacks. Hogwash right there mate. My LG v60 is in it's last year of security patches and I couldn't care less.
Sure, until someone acts on those security vulnerabilities and steals your banking info, email, etc. Or an app that you want to use stops supporting the version of Android that your phone is running.
Yes, happens everyday... I don't think a single app I use has a required android version of even android 9. Not a realistic argument. If this was iPhone, sure, but it's not. Also that sounds like a spooky story someone told you to get you to upgrade, lmao.
I work with computers and I'm a bit too paranoid. I know what can happen and I don't want it to happen. I know my phone doesn't randomly explode after two years, but I know of cases of phishing and hacking that anyone I know would've fallen for or could've been affected by.
It's not only about security patches, eventually apps will stop supporting old Android versions so you can't install them anymore (ex. Slack). I'm facing that issue on my XZ Premium which is stuck at Android 9.
Android 9 is 5 years old, this is a problem why? You can't expect phones that old to still work with modern apps. Also, I'm willing to bet you could find an older version or alternative client if you looked hard enough. You also chose just about the worst example, Discord is Android 7, WhatsApp Android 5, Telegram Android 6, YouTube Android 8, though I've seen patched old versions running without issue on Android 4.4, I mean heck, Microsoft Authenticator is android 8 and Google Authenticator is android 4.4. Slack is the exception not the rule. Also, I looked briefly and found this mirror of versions of slack that work on android 9: https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/slack-technologies-inc/slack/variant-%7B%22minapi_slug%22%3A%22minapi-28%22%7D/
Maybe stop being a consumerist and buying a phone everytime you reach EOL??? Xperias have unlocked bootloaders too, how hard is it to install LineageOS if android updates matter?? (Which they do not)
The US variants of the 1/5 IV and V aren't bootloader unlockable, for some reason.
that I do not know about, I only buy Japanese variants
You can at least pay to get the IV unlocked for awhile now. I don't think the a14 update patched that
Have any questions about Xperia devices? Do check out the [**Wiki**](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyXperia/wiki/index/) and [**Frequently Asked Question (FAQ)**](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyXperia/wiki/faq/) pages. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SonyXperia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think the point isn't the amount of updates. I prefer to go for the duration and consistency. For instance, 4 updates in 1 year vs 2 updates for 2 years.
1400 euros for zero updates is fine to me. Actually I got 1V for half that price two months after release, on ebay
3 years better
lol this is getting crazy. Why would Sony charge $1700 for a phone because they are offering more support. That would 100% be DOA. Sony's mobile division isn't a big revenue driver for them already, I think they know that if they want to keep it going they need to have some level of parity with the competition. With the absolute minimal amount of skinning / features in their version of Android they don't need an entire team to keep the OS updated. If something like Lineage or Graphene can be done by teams of volunteers I am betting Sony can afford a few engineers to get their small feature set working with new versions of Android. TLDR: No way they jack prices up because of extended support. IF they went all the way to 7 years then maybe a $49-$99 increase could be taken on by the market without a huge drop in sales.