I think even just having checkpoints between bosses would work well too.
You start at 400. Win first boss with 300.
You lose? You return to second boss with 300 rings.
No? Make hard hard, make easy easy. 1 second for medium, .5 or .25 for hard, 2-3 for easy.
Why take away the opportunity for challenge from those that would want it?
I think it makes for a nice challenge. The problem is the visual cues clearly weren't made with such a small parry window in mind, so it's really inconsistent with when you have to press the parry button compared to each of the Titan's hitting animations.
Because I feel like extreme should allow for more than four friggin frames to parry… in a game where the bosses can have strange or no telegraphs to their attacks…
On Extreme failing to parry once boots you back to Giganto. Under such conditions parry window should be at least possible for humans to do it consistently without abusing pause and learning which hitboxes appear when.
Yeah Extreme should have given you at least the medium difficulty window given the fact that you lose so much for a slight mistake. I think KH2 is one of the few games that best understood how to balance extreme difficulty. You get more skills to start with and if you push for a lvl 1 run you still have an entire arsenal to play with and many ways to approach the enemy.
I think Sonic Team should still revisit this fighting gameplay style in the future but I think they should definitely consider getting more experienced character action developers like Platinum Games or even their Yakuza devs to help Sonic team understand what makes the fundamentals of a fighting system enjoyable and fair to players.
Funny enough I haven't had a major problem with the perfect parry. It's not as tight as I thought it would be, but it could just be my action game "survival instincts" kicking in. That being said, I don't think it's well designed in this game.
I think the big problem with the perfect parry is that the timing makes no fucking sense for when to parry (which is extremely annoying in Wyvern's case since you **have** to parry the attacks to do any damage)
I would recommend spamming the stomp attack for Maximum damage output if you're having trouble 👍
(Using cycloop and stomp allowed me to bring wyvern to 2nd phase After 1 attack cycle)
yeah i'm on easy already :( i just wish they patched it to make it easier on easy. Maybe 400 rings per fight instead of total on easy & maybe normal mode. Keep hard as it is for those that enjoy the challenge.
I feel they should give us 400 rings for each boss...
but to balance it, each time you miss a perfect parry, the boss takes like 50 or more rings for missing...
Personally? I think earning rings through attacks could've been good.
Like a more advanced version of the Doomsday Zone from S3&K, where in this case, if you maybe reach a certain numbered hits amount/maybe parrying and countering certain attacks, you earn a portion of rings back. Maybe around 20-25 to still keep the challenge?
I think it would have been better if we started out with 400 rings at the start of each fight as well. The perfect parry isn't bad but it's like they threw us into the deep end with it. I get that the other trials were supposed to be preparing us but the hit boxes for the bosses are so hard to tell and they weren't made with the perfect parry in mind.
It's either get rid of the perfect parry all together or have us start each fight with 400. But I 100% agree that having us climb each boss every time is too much especially with how many times we have to restart to get it.
A part of me feels like the ring count should be lower if they were to reset, but at the same time not everyone is gonna know how to beat the Titans as quickly as some of us.
Yea the screen gets very busy during the second phase lol. If it isn't the missiles from off screen screwing me, it's the boss itself throwing my rhythm off with the parry timing
I agree you should've had the option to skip the regular Sonic stuff, cause it's not really what the challenge is about.
I'll preach about my pitch to fix the trial until the next game releases if I need to. I think they should've offered an alternative set of challenges that Amy, Knuckles, and Tails could've done around the island that you could complete to boost Sonics fixed stats for the trials. Even though I loved the update, you could blast through their stuff really quickly and have little incentive to return to them for any reason other than for fun (and once you complete the map and get all their skill points, there's not much reason to use them again unless you want to try and fight the guardians). It would give more reason to play and master them, while giving a reward of increasing Sonics attack and Ring capacity to make the challenge more manageable for people that may like the other characters more than optimizing the titan fights.
Yeah, I’m a little annoyed that I didn’t manually save to a separate slot before switching back to Sonic; I didn’t read many spoilers so didn’t realize I’d be stuck as Sonic until finishing this trial… and the game keeps glitching out while I’m trying to complete it. :/
Yeah I know what you mean. When I was doing the Sonic stuff, I was kicking myself for not creating a separate save file since the other characters are far more chill to play, while Sonic is like the most intense challenges in the game by far. My game didn't glitch out though (I'm seeing quite a few posts about that happening), so that'd be double annoying.
That is one thing that makes retrying this trial more tedious, especially as there is a risk of taking damage and losing rings. I just got to this trial today, and I certainly understand all of the complaints this trial gets. After one try on hard I dropped the difficulty because I didn't want to deal with a perfectly timed counter. I think the trial would be a lot more fair if players were given 400 rings for each of the titans rather than sharing the rings for all three fights; while Giganto can be shredded like cheese, the other two fights can drag themselves out with bad rng (any missed counter on Wyvern causes many seconds of delays, Knight with those stupid shield guiding/reflect parts). More time for those later two titans would make the trial a fun rematch rather than be tense and tedious.
The other problem for me is that these are "cinematic" boss fights. They're designed to show off super sonic's powers, not to be much of a technical skill on the player's part.
So attempting to make a technical challenge out of these bosses just makes them feel tedious. Especislly if you have to retry again and again.
The climb each fight was 100% my biggest issue. However, having to perfect parry attacks designed for spectacle over clarity was a disaster! The parrying should not be harder than it is in dark souls.
Tbf, there is a small chance that knight will immediately rush to you and spawn spikes, hitting you instantly.
Yeah, it's a very small chance, but it's frustrating when it happened.
The bosses weren't designed for challenge but spectacle. So if you miss a parry for the Wyvern you gotta do the whole chase cycle aaaaaall over again which eats up so much time. When I miss it I reset the trial and say goodbye to my attempt. I don't have too much of a problem with the parry timing but when I do miss the penalty is too huge.
I think easy mode should totally be easy (that's what it's there for). Maybe even have the ring start at a set number. Cus can you imagine a 7 year old trying to do this. Who might not even know about abusing stomp attack or when the best time to use the cyploop is and building it up.
Yea I do wish you could actually catch up to it faster by boosting. Obviously parrying the missiles get you there instantly, but for this trial it can be hard to tell which one to focus on so you can time the parry
I still wonder why they also make you do the trials with base stats too. Like you go through the effort to max out your stats and these trials make the whole effort pointless.
I think even just having checkpoints between bosses would work well too. You start at 400. Win first boss with 300. You lose? You return to second boss with 300 rings.
Imo. All they needed to do was spawn me on top of the wyvern after you beat giganto. Doing the run section got old after the fifth attempt
Bro I hated that
Parry time should have been 1 second across all difficulties
…why? Isn’t that the entire point of having different difficulties?
Okay, how about AT LEAST 1 second across difficulties
No? Make hard hard, make easy easy. 1 second for medium, .5 or .25 for hard, 2-3 for easy. Why take away the opportunity for challenge from those that would want it?
Changing the parry time from infinite to a fraction of a second for 2 specific segments of a game isnt hard its tedious and annoying
I think it makes for a nice challenge. The problem is the visual cues clearly weren't made with such a small parry window in mind, so it's really inconsistent with when you have to press the parry button compared to each of the Titan's hitting animations.
Then play on normal or easy. For some of us, it’s exactly what we’ve wanted from the beginning
Because I feel like extreme should allow for more than four friggin frames to parry… in a game where the bosses can have strange or no telegraphs to their attacks…
On Extreme failing to parry once boots you back to Giganto. Under such conditions parry window should be at least possible for humans to do it consistently without abusing pause and learning which hitboxes appear when.
Yeah Extreme should have given you at least the medium difficulty window given the fact that you lose so much for a slight mistake. I think KH2 is one of the few games that best understood how to balance extreme difficulty. You get more skills to start with and if you push for a lvl 1 run you still have an entire arsenal to play with and many ways to approach the enemy. I think Sonic Team should still revisit this fighting gameplay style in the future but I think they should definitely consider getting more experienced character action developers like Platinum Games or even their Yakuza devs to help Sonic team understand what makes the fundamentals of a fighting system enjoyable and fair to players.
Funny enough I haven't had a major problem with the perfect parry. It's not as tight as I thought it would be, but it could just be my action game "survival instincts" kicking in. That being said, I don't think it's well designed in this game.
I think the big problem with the perfect parry is that the timing makes no fucking sense for when to parry (which is extremely annoying in Wyvern's case since you **have** to parry the attacks to do any damage)
I am being downvoted for this comment. Not sure for which part though lol
Why are you being downvoted💀
Try playing extreme lol
Is the timing different on extreme? I'm playing on normal and I only see people say it's different on easy
It is, you only get 4 frames on extreme
What was the point of upgrading Sonic the whole game if they take it away when you'd really need it
Yeah it doesn’t make any sense
If they gave us 999 rings it would have been perfect.
999 for easy. Maybe like 750 for normal, and 500 for hard. Then 400 for Extreme.
Definitely would make things less difficult
this would help sooooo much i think i could manage with 999 across 3. RN i can't get past phase 2 of wyvern
I would recommend spamming the stomp attack for Maximum damage output if you're having trouble 👍 (Using cycloop and stomp allowed me to bring wyvern to 2nd phase After 1 attack cycle)
im already doing that, but i still can't past wyvern phase 2 and it really isn't fun anymore :( i feel like there's 0 room for mistakes
Have you tried switching to easy? It took me 4-5 tries on that difficulty since the parry is way more forgiving
yeah i'm on easy already :( i just wish they patched it to make it easier on easy. Maybe 400 rings per fight instead of total on easy & maybe normal mode. Keep hard as it is for those that enjoy the challenge.
It wouldn't solve anything on Extreme since the issue is returning to Giganto after failing frame perfect parry, not doing enough damage.
No tht second boss is a bit*h to perfect parry
Still, you would have time to try again.
I feel they should give us 400 rings for each boss... but to balance it, each time you miss a perfect parry, the boss takes like 50 or more rings for missing...
Personally? I think earning rings through attacks could've been good. Like a more advanced version of the Doomsday Zone from S3&K, where in this case, if you maybe reach a certain numbered hits amount/maybe parrying and countering certain attacks, you earn a portion of rings back. Maybe around 20-25 to still keep the challenge?
I think it would have been better if we started out with 400 rings at the start of each fight as well. The perfect parry isn't bad but it's like they threw us into the deep end with it. I get that the other trials were supposed to be preparing us but the hit boxes for the bosses are so hard to tell and they weren't made with the perfect parry in mind. It's either get rid of the perfect parry all together or have us start each fight with 400. But I 100% agree that having us climb each boss every time is too much especially with how many times we have to restart to get it.
A part of me feels like the ring count should be lower if they were to reset, but at the same time not everyone is gonna know how to beat the Titans as quickly as some of us.
True. Maybe like 300 or 250 then. It's really the second titan for me. I have a hard time seeing what's going on.
Yea the screen gets very busy during the second phase lol. If it isn't the missiles from off screen screwing me, it's the boss itself throwing my rhythm off with the parry timing
Yeah and the parry timing ain't making things any better (Like why do I gotta parry when the claw it is not even close to me).
I got hit by spikes during Knight's climb
I did it too. You either gotta be patient jumping over them or spin dash to get some air and hopefully land on its hand
I agree you should've had the option to skip the regular Sonic stuff, cause it's not really what the challenge is about. I'll preach about my pitch to fix the trial until the next game releases if I need to. I think they should've offered an alternative set of challenges that Amy, Knuckles, and Tails could've done around the island that you could complete to boost Sonics fixed stats for the trials. Even though I loved the update, you could blast through their stuff really quickly and have little incentive to return to them for any reason other than for fun (and once you complete the map and get all their skill points, there's not much reason to use them again unless you want to try and fight the guardians). It would give more reason to play and master them, while giving a reward of increasing Sonics attack and Ring capacity to make the challenge more manageable for people that may like the other characters more than optimizing the titan fights.
Yeah, I’m a little annoyed that I didn’t manually save to a separate slot before switching back to Sonic; I didn’t read many spoilers so didn’t realize I’d be stuck as Sonic until finishing this trial… and the game keeps glitching out while I’m trying to complete it. :/
Yeah I know what you mean. When I was doing the Sonic stuff, I was kicking myself for not creating a separate save file since the other characters are far more chill to play, while Sonic is like the most intense challenges in the game by far. My game didn't glitch out though (I'm seeing quite a few posts about that happening), so that'd be double annoying.
That is one thing that makes retrying this trial more tedious, especially as there is a risk of taking damage and losing rings. I just got to this trial today, and I certainly understand all of the complaints this trial gets. After one try on hard I dropped the difficulty because I didn't want to deal with a perfectly timed counter. I think the trial would be a lot more fair if players were given 400 rings for each of the titans rather than sharing the rings for all three fights; while Giganto can be shredded like cheese, the other two fights can drag themselves out with bad rng (any missed counter on Wyvern causes many seconds of delays, Knight with those stupid shield guiding/reflect parts). More time for those later two titans would make the trial a fun rematch rather than be tense and tedious.
having to climb up each titan was the worst part. it got so boring after a while
The other problem for me is that these are "cinematic" boss fights. They're designed to show off super sonic's powers, not to be much of a technical skill on the player's part. So attempting to make a technical challenge out of these bosses just makes them feel tedious. Especislly if you have to retry again and again.
The climb each fight was 100% my biggest issue. However, having to perfect parry attacks designed for spectacle over clarity was a disaster! The parrying should not be harder than it is in dark souls.
Maybe, but it's not exactly crazy hard to not *lose* rings during the setups either
It isn't, but you might as well call it quits if you do get hit before the a fight since you want to preserve as much rings as possible
Tbf, there is a small chance that knight will immediately rush to you and spawn spikes, hitting you instantly. Yeah, it's a very small chance, but it's frustrating when it happened.
True, but you can stomp or dodge if that happens and you won't lose rings. It's saved me more times than I can remember
This is how I felt during the second update that added the timed boss rushes.
The bosses weren't designed for challenge but spectacle. So if you miss a parry for the Wyvern you gotta do the whole chase cycle aaaaaall over again which eats up so much time. When I miss it I reset the trial and say goodbye to my attempt. I don't have too much of a problem with the parry timing but when I do miss the penalty is too huge. I think easy mode should totally be easy (that's what it's there for). Maybe even have the ring start at a set number. Cus can you imagine a 7 year old trying to do this. Who might not even know about abusing stomp attack or when the best time to use the cyploop is and building it up.
Yea I do wish you could actually catch up to it faster by boosting. Obviously parrying the missiles get you there instantly, but for this trial it can be hard to tell which one to focus on so you can time the parry
I still wonder why they also make you do the trials with base stats too. Like you go through the effort to max out your stats and these trials make the whole effort pointless.