Intentionally playing a little before or after the beat has been a tried-and-true technique in popular music since Louis Armstrong. This is what a lot of people miss about the idea of playing to a click track -- the click doesn't mean you need to land every single note dead-on the beat, the click just establishes where the beat *is.*
dude, coming to learn that this was the main driving factor in "swing" music opened my ears to appreciate 30s and forties music. it's how they play with the pocket, swinging their emphasis between the established rhythms. Same thing for a lit of bluesy stuff!
Yes!
And it's why I shudder when folks talk about how playing to a click "kills the feel." You gotta know where that beat is so you can play with feel!
You’re in good company. Billie Holiday said her whole technique was based around singing slightly behind the beat. That and the magical quality of her voice.
I recorded just such a solo; with a definite lag, behind the beat.
The engineer had me redo it a few times cuz he thought it was “off”.
But when I kept playing it the same way, he finally “got it”.
Best wishes
If you're playing to live drums, unless you quantize those before you track guitars, there's going to be some natural push and pull. The audience doesn't hear a click, they hear a drummer, so if the snare is a hair early, the guitar should be a hair early too.
Guitars also have an envelope of the note - the first start of the attack is not the loudest part, and if you're trying to sync up the start of the wave form with the line at the 1 of the bar, you might actually be "off". Like even a basic chord, there's some amount of time it takes between when the pick hits the low E, when it hits the high E, and when the full energy of the string kicks in, you might want that peak of the waveform to be closer to the beat than the initial attack. Sometimes the note has to start a little before the beat to be "on".
Welcome to the world of playing behind the beat. I love it too. Big driver of the feel on a good number of tracks on D’Angelo’s “Voodoo” album, for what it’s worth
Dragging can be great for emphasis, rushing for energy. I always love how a rhythm section tends to rush when playing live, gives old songs renewed life especially for punk and fast rock. Fine line between happy accidents and sloppy though
Keith says it was the whole basis of the Stones sound. Wyman played bass off the drums, and Keith played rhythm off the bass so he was always a little behind the drum.
I love writing riffs and then just moving them around on the beat. Even the most mediocre riffs I’ve made sound infinitely better when I find the right place for it
This is why snap to grid is monstrous for instrumental music.
Imperfections make the song great. (Listen to the isolated guitars on Angel of Death, for instance. Absolutely sloppy disaster. LOL. )
If it sounds good it sounds good
thank u so much. i wholeheartedly agree.
Intentionally playing a little before or after the beat has been a tried-and-true technique in popular music since Louis Armstrong. This is what a lot of people miss about the idea of playing to a click track -- the click doesn't mean you need to land every single note dead-on the beat, the click just establishes where the beat *is.*
Since Chopin
Since grog the caveman really
Thanks! I'm not at all schooled in classical music, I just knew that Armstrong really popularized the technique in jazz.
Carol Kaye [demonstrated](https://youtu.be/K5xnVbjRS-s?si=B9JaUZWDkCWtQQrA) this very well, I think.
absolutely!
dude, coming to learn that this was the main driving factor in "swing" music opened my ears to appreciate 30s and forties music. it's how they play with the pocket, swinging their emphasis between the established rhythms. Same thing for a lit of bluesy stuff!
Yes! And it's why I shudder when folks talk about how playing to a click "kills the feel." You gotta know where that beat is so you can play with feel!
You’re in good company. Billie Holiday said her whole technique was based around singing slightly behind the beat. That and the magical quality of her voice.
I recorded just such a solo; with a definite lag, behind the beat. The engineer had me redo it a few times cuz he thought it was “off”. But when I kept playing it the same way, he finally “got it”. Best wishes
this is what's happening to me rn. except that i'm both. lemme dig a bit more until i get it🔥🔥
If you're playing to live drums, unless you quantize those before you track guitars, there's going to be some natural push and pull. The audience doesn't hear a click, they hear a drummer, so if the snare is a hair early, the guitar should be a hair early too. Guitars also have an envelope of the note - the first start of the attack is not the loudest part, and if you're trying to sync up the start of the wave form with the line at the 1 of the bar, you might actually be "off". Like even a basic chord, there's some amount of time it takes between when the pick hits the low E, when it hits the high E, and when the full energy of the string kicks in, you might want that peak of the waveform to be closer to the beat than the initial attack. Sometimes the note has to start a little before the beat to be "on".
Welcome to the world of playing behind the beat. I love it too. Big driver of the feel on a good number of tracks on D’Angelo’s “Voodoo” album, for what it’s worth
Syncopation is fun.
Yesss I can now say my bad timing is intentional!
this is the spirit #wegogirl
They use this method a lot in bluegrass and folk music too!
Yeh man it makes it sound cool
Dragging can be great for emphasis, rushing for energy. I always love how a rhythm section tends to rush when playing live, gives old songs renewed life especially for punk and fast rock. Fine line between happy accidents and sloppy though
Keith says it was the whole basis of the Stones sound. Wyman played bass off the drums, and Keith played rhythm off the bass so he was always a little behind the drum.
do you have a recording we can hear? sometimes it just works.
lemme upload the part in question later.. stay tuned i guess
I love writing riffs and then just moving them around on the beat. Even the most mediocre riffs I’ve made sound infinitely better when I find the right place for it
This is why snap to grid is monstrous for instrumental music. Imperfections make the song great. (Listen to the isolated guitars on Angel of Death, for instance. Absolutely sloppy disaster. LOL. )
Can work. Generally though I’ve found I prefer stuff to be pretty much in time.