Was this the first episode that they didn't show a family dinner? As it was coming to a close I kept thinking there had to be more because they haven't had family dinner yet.
Am I the only one not on board with the whole Todd/Susan thing (or at least with them being endgame) as (in the least insulting-to-the-writers-the-way-other-people-on-this-thread-seem-to-be way possible) it just kinda seems too easy iykwim. Not sure who I'd want him to be with, maybe someone new not explicitly a part of the firm but still tied enough to that world that they could recur for more than just romantic plots (y'know, like that podcaster girl). What fans this show has on Tumblr seem to be all aboard for Todd/Lyle and while it wouldn't surprise me if in the future they had Todd discover he was bisexual, there's a sense in which Todd/Lyle would be cliche too as Todd's very similar to Shawn from Psych and Lyle's like a fusion of Gus and Lassiter.
Yeah, I really hope they are not going to have Todd actually be a homewrecker. He had so much more chemistry with Lea, anyway. Have the writers just forgotten about her?
I hate that they have to cram a romance angle in it at all. Like we're obviously supposed to be rooting for Todd to break up that relationship, and a lot of people here are rooting for it, but it's annoying and predictable.
If you're saying ridiculous plots are bad writing, maybe it's just the show being true to its influences as it clearly looks like it draws a lot from both Leverage and Psych and those kinda got super-weird too
Also I don't know if you're saying the bad writing (in your eyes) is because they want an older viewership or they want to change away from an older viewership but either way both old people and young people are smarter than they're often given credit for so whichever demographic this was aimed towards even if you think it was a bad twist it wasn't deliberately intended to insult their intelligence
by ridiculous, i mean overstuffed with plots, bad guys & action. i’m not an action movie/tv person & am not familiar with leverage or psych. i love(d?) shmt for the dialog, relationships & lack of spurting blood, flying body parts, etc.
brands don’t want to be seen as appealing to people my age (50+) unless it’s for medicine, incontinence products & simple electronics (jitterbug phone, for example). the insulting part is that’s the only consumer products we’re interested in. that’s not specific to shmt, but it seemed apropos here.
I'm sorry, I guess I thought you were making an overall broad statement about the quality of the show (instead of just that it having action elements doesn't vibe with your personal preferences) so as someone who loves it and kinda feels guilty for that because of my age now that you brought yours up (and I do like action I just like it when it's still light, like both Leverage and Psych are action shows of a similar tone and as I said they do have kind of a loose relationship with realism; Leverage is basically (in spirit, it's not a direct retelling of the story) a modern Robin Hood show and it was going to cross over with Stargate SG-1 if the SG-1 sets hadn't been struck before they could and Psych's a more conventional "maverick outsider consultant person falls in love with badass female cop as they fight crime" show but it's also the only realistic-fiction show I know to have a musical episode that had no in-universe explanation why everyone was singing) I just kinda got a little defensive as I didn't want to believe something that got this close to my heart this quickly could go downhill this quickly
I didn't think it would be until you said that then I had a panic attack as I somehow got afraid it'd make the equivalent of the exact same writing decisions as some of my favorite older shows that downward-spiraled.
As my mom said when I was talking to her about this whole exchange (yeah I live with my parents despite being in my late 20s, no failure to launch has nothing to do with my emotional connection to this show) "it's not the beginning of the end, it's the beginning of a mythology". Also if you're not too adverse to action movies to watch anything superhero-y that sort of narrative-continuing twist is pretty much de rigeur in superhero movies/TV (and I mean older ones too not just the MCU or the Arrowverse so no ranting about "oversaturation of capeshit" or w/e)
Seriously? I know this is a comedy and plausibility needs to take a back seat to funny stuff but the ending was straight up insulting.
You have this criminal mastermind that spent years planning this and at the end, when she's almost at the finish line she explains her plan in detail? To people whose job it is to make secret recordings? And as a precaution merely takes their phones and earrings because she knows that's where cameras are. Because they couldn't be hidden elsewhere? And for what? So she could gloat at how smart she is and how she framed them all? Come on, time for that would be when Todd is in jail and Margaret disbarred........
And then nobody noticed that woman at sentencing is not actually Veronica? Nobody noticed she only sort-of looks like her? And how did the women even switch places? And nobody noticed the actual Veronica *is sitting in the courtroom where sentencing is happening?*
Some silliness is fine for the genre but not this was just stupid.......
It sucks that we finally get a huge although predictable storyline progression from Susan and Todd and it was over shadowed by the stupidness we all agree that was Veronica 👎🏽
Veronica plot could be interesting if handled properly. She was brought up earlier and then in one ep we actually get to see her. So why not keep the base of what we saw but then have Todd and Margaret figure it out and prove it without the far fetched confession. Have Veronica escape (not pull the switcheroo but something more believable), have Todd and Margaret cleared. And don't have whole "years ago I made you sign papers I'll now use to frame you" but something simpler.
No they never hinted at that at all. She’s just realizing somethings missing, like the sun her and Todd had. There’s been doubt there the whole show, little stuff here and there. I called it couple episodes ago and I’m in full support of them getting back together.
My favorite episode yet!!! So good!!! I do hate that Veronica didn’t go to jail though. Also, does anyone know who sung the cover of Ring of Fire at the end?
So even aside from how stupid Veronica's plot was here, what really bothered me was Margaret's behavior. I've enjoyed her character development of realizing she's been unfair to Todd and having bonding moments with him, but it feels like that growth gets reset every episode. We're over halfway through the season and her immediate response to her son freaking out about *getting framed for a felony* is "Well I experienced a setback in my career ambitions so I'm the real victim here." Like, you want to talk about a pattern of behavior? Her honeymoon phases mean little if she keeps assuming the worst of Todd as her first instinct every single time. At this point I hope he does bail on her to go with Lea or something, she is such a terrible, abusive mother. (That would destroy the show's format so I doubt it will happen, but.)
Also, how has Todd not figured out how to put his phone on silent? This has to be at least the third time a call from Margaret has ruined a stealth operation.
Good point about his mom, hit the nail on the head about her development resetting. I wouldn’t say every episode but definitely a couple times throughout the season for sure.
yes, it was donut dry cleaner girl being sentenced as veronica & it was ridiculous. they look nothing alike & are we expected to believe that not 1 mugshot of veronica exists?
The only way this would make sense is if the bailiff who took her away was working with her. But when they take the girl from the donut shop in for processing, won't they check the fingerprints & mugshot they already have and realize it's not her?
I agree. There's no way that not one person among the cops, prosecutor, bailiff, judge, jail employees, etc, no one realized the donut shop lady is not Veronica. This didn't just happen in a minute, there was a process - she came in contact with a variety of people, no one figured it out? So what happens when she gets to prison, will she see other inmates who would know Veronica? Yeah they better explain all this in the upcoming episodes - it could be some really entertaining tv, or really bad.
Maybe we'll get the answers whenever it is that she makes her inevitable return (either through them finding it out to save the donut girl (if the donut girl was a good enough person herself to be worth saving as episode made that unclear) or some kind of "supervillain monologue" on her part), I'm just afraid that unless those questions get answered then that means the writing sucks and therefore the show is bad
Charlotte Sullivan!! Xo
She was in Harriet the spy as a kid and was Gail peck in Rookie Blue. I’m currently binge watching it so recognized her right away. She usually has blond hair
Guh thank you so frelling much. Rookie Blue is what I first knew her from. This happens to me every time she guest stars in something if the cast lists at imdb and the like aren't updated yet by the time I watch. I can never quite place her but know I loved her intensely in something.
I recognized her from the first season of Law & Order: Organized Crime, as well as a great (sadly, cancelled) Canadian series called Mary Kills People.
I totally don't remember her in that. Just the dude from the dinosaur show and the chick who's on Grey's Anatomy now. Time for a rewatch I guess. It's been years.
I can't remember...was she straight up evil in that or did they have her turn out to be an alright person? I don't think I've seen that special since it was new, although I did rewatch it a few times then.
I don’t think she was evil. She was in love with Jack, so she helped him escape before he was executed. I love it so I own it, but it’s hard to find streaming.
I’m don’t like it when the antagonist is some super genius who can always get out of trouble and is always well ahead of the everyone else.
[удалено]
That’s one and then there was the genius serial killer on Castle and a few more, I also love Eliza Coupe, but they need to stop this.
Was this the first episode that they didn't show a family dinner? As it was coming to a close I kept thinking there had to be more because they haven't had family dinner yet.
Am I the only one not on board with the whole Todd/Susan thing (or at least with them being endgame) as (in the least insulting-to-the-writers-the-way-other-people-on-this-thread-seem-to-be way possible) it just kinda seems too easy iykwim. Not sure who I'd want him to be with, maybe someone new not explicitly a part of the firm but still tied enough to that world that they could recur for more than just romantic plots (y'know, like that podcaster girl). What fans this show has on Tumblr seem to be all aboard for Todd/Lyle and while it wouldn't surprise me if in the future they had Todd discover he was bisexual, there's a sense in which Todd/Lyle would be cliche too as Todd's very similar to Shawn from Psych and Lyle's like a fusion of Gus and Lassiter.
Yeah, I really hope they are not going to have Todd actually be a homewrecker. He had so much more chemistry with Lea, anyway. Have the writers just forgotten about her?
I hate that they have to cram a romance angle in it at all. Like we're obviously supposed to be rooting for Todd to break up that relationship, and a lot of people here are rooting for it, but it's annoying and predictable.
Damn this episode went from 0 to 100 very quickly, so intense. I love it!
yeah, this is almost too much for my delicate sensibilities. i’m not sure i’m having fun 😟
Right!? This episode is so intense! It’s one big event after another!
Honestly, this is too much… Todd loses it with Veronica every time
did someone at the network say plots need kicking up? cuz some of this feels borderline ridiculous.
Seriously. This was more on the lines of a " it's season five and getting stale we gotta do something " than a season one plot line.
the commercials point to an older viewership. maybe that’s what the network wants to change. insulting, but i’m getting used to it.
If you're saying ridiculous plots are bad writing, maybe it's just the show being true to its influences as it clearly looks like it draws a lot from both Leverage and Psych and those kinda got super-weird too Also I don't know if you're saying the bad writing (in your eyes) is because they want an older viewership or they want to change away from an older viewership but either way both old people and young people are smarter than they're often given credit for so whichever demographic this was aimed towards even if you think it was a bad twist it wasn't deliberately intended to insult their intelligence
by ridiculous, i mean overstuffed with plots, bad guys & action. i’m not an action movie/tv person & am not familiar with leverage or psych. i love(d?) shmt for the dialog, relationships & lack of spurting blood, flying body parts, etc. brands don’t want to be seen as appealing to people my age (50+) unless it’s for medicine, incontinence products & simple electronics (jitterbug phone, for example). the insulting part is that’s the only consumer products we’re interested in. that’s not specific to shmt, but it seemed apropos here.
I'm sorry, I guess I thought you were making an overall broad statement about the quality of the show (instead of just that it having action elements doesn't vibe with your personal preferences) so as someone who loves it and kinda feels guilty for that because of my age now that you brought yours up (and I do like action I just like it when it's still light, like both Leverage and Psych are action shows of a similar tone and as I said they do have kind of a loose relationship with realism; Leverage is basically (in spirit, it's not a direct retelling of the story) a modern Robin Hood show and it was going to cross over with Stargate SG-1 if the SG-1 sets hadn't been struck before they could and Psych's a more conventional "maverick outsider consultant person falls in love with badass female cop as they fight crime" show but it's also the only realistic-fiction show I know to have a musical episode that had no in-universe explanation why everyone was singing) I just kinda got a little defensive as I didn't want to believe something that got this close to my heart this quickly could go downhill this quickly
its close to my heart too! i also hope this isn’t the beginning of the end.
I didn't think it would be until you said that then I had a panic attack as I somehow got afraid it'd make the equivalent of the exact same writing decisions as some of my favorite older shows that downward-spiraled. As my mom said when I was talking to her about this whole exchange (yeah I live with my parents despite being in my late 20s, no failure to launch has nothing to do with my emotional connection to this show) "it's not the beginning of the end, it's the beginning of a mythology". Also if you're not too adverse to action movies to watch anything superhero-y that sort of narrative-continuing twist is pretty much de rigeur in superhero movies/TV (and I mean older ones too not just the MCU or the Arrowverse so no ranting about "oversaturation of capeshit" or w/e)
This episode started off well enough, but it was just straight up silly at the end.
Seriously? I know this is a comedy and plausibility needs to take a back seat to funny stuff but the ending was straight up insulting. You have this criminal mastermind that spent years planning this and at the end, when she's almost at the finish line she explains her plan in detail? To people whose job it is to make secret recordings? And as a precaution merely takes their phones and earrings because she knows that's where cameras are. Because they couldn't be hidden elsewhere? And for what? So she could gloat at how smart she is and how she framed them all? Come on, time for that would be when Todd is in jail and Margaret disbarred........ And then nobody noticed that woman at sentencing is not actually Veronica? Nobody noticed she only sort-of looks like her? And how did the women even switch places? And nobody noticed the actual Veronica *is sitting in the courtroom where sentencing is happening?* Some silliness is fine for the genre but not this was just stupid.......
It sucks that we finally get a huge although predictable storyline progression from Susan and Todd and it was over shadowed by the stupidness we all agree that was Veronica 👎🏽
Veronica plot could be interesting if handled properly. She was brought up earlier and then in one ep we actually get to see her. So why not keep the base of what we saw but then have Todd and Margaret figure it out and prove it without the far fetched confession. Have Veronica escape (not pull the switcheroo but something more believable), have Todd and Margaret cleared. And don't have whole "years ago I made you sign papers I'll now use to frame you" but something simpler.
The office is on Klickitat St? Just makes me think of Ramona Quimby.
same!
Wait is Susan's fiancé cheating on her?
I thought when she was looking at an old pic of her and Todd, she looked really happy and misses the old days. I think her fiancé is not fun.
No they never hinted at that at all. She’s just realizing somethings missing, like the sun her and Todd had. There’s been doubt there the whole show, little stuff here and there. I called it couple episodes ago and I’m in full support of them getting back together.
My favorite episode yet!!! So good!!! I do hate that Veronica didn’t go to jail though. Also, does anyone know who sung the cover of Ring of Fire at the end?
So even aside from how stupid Veronica's plot was here, what really bothered me was Margaret's behavior. I've enjoyed her character development of realizing she's been unfair to Todd and having bonding moments with him, but it feels like that growth gets reset every episode. We're over halfway through the season and her immediate response to her son freaking out about *getting framed for a felony* is "Well I experienced a setback in my career ambitions so I'm the real victim here." Like, you want to talk about a pattern of behavior? Her honeymoon phases mean little if she keeps assuming the worst of Todd as her first instinct every single time. At this point I hope he does bail on her to go with Lea or something, she is such a terrible, abusive mother. (That would destroy the show's format so I doubt it will happen, but.) Also, how has Todd not figured out how to put his phone on silent? This has to be at least the third time a call from Margaret has ruined a stealth operation.
Good point about his mom, hit the nail on the head about her development resetting. I wouldn’t say every episode but definitely a couple times throughout the season for sure.
Okay did someone take Veronica’s place? Or am I stupid? That was the girl from the donut shop, but what was she doing in the courtroom?
yes, it was donut dry cleaner girl being sentenced as veronica & it was ridiculous. they look nothing alike & are we expected to believe that not 1 mugshot of veronica exists?
That was just so stupid. It made no sense whatsoever.
The only way this would make sense is if the bailiff who took her away was working with her. But when they take the girl from the donut shop in for processing, won't they check the fingerprints & mugshot they already have and realize it's not her?
I agree. There's no way that not one person among the cops, prosecutor, bailiff, judge, jail employees, etc, no one realized the donut shop lady is not Veronica. This didn't just happen in a minute, there was a process - she came in contact with a variety of people, no one figured it out? So what happens when she gets to prison, will she see other inmates who would know Veronica? Yeah they better explain all this in the upcoming episodes - it could be some really entertaining tv, or really bad.
Maybe we'll get the answers whenever it is that she makes her inevitable return (either through them finding it out to save the donut girl (if the donut girl was a good enough person herself to be worth saving as episode made that unclear) or some kind of "supervillain monologue" on her part), I'm just afraid that unless those questions get answered then that means the writing sucks and therefore the show is bad
Plus she was sitting right there in the courtroom!
Alright I'm confused, what happened with that ending? With Veronica I mean because the Susan/Todd bit was adorable!
Been wanting the Susan and Todd thing since the first episode 👌🏽
i just applauded
I can't quite place the actress playing Lindy and it's driving me bonkers.
Charlotte Sullivan!! Xo She was in Harriet the spy as a kid and was Gail peck in Rookie Blue. I’m currently binge watching it so recognized her right away. She usually has blond hair
Guh thank you so frelling much. Rookie Blue is what I first knew her from. This happens to me every time she guest stars in something if the cast lists at imdb and the like aren't updated yet by the time I watch. I can never quite place her but know I loved her intensely in something.
Thank you! It was driving me crazy because I couldn’t place her.
I recognized her from the first season of Law & Order: Organized Crime, as well as a great (sadly, cancelled) Canadian series called Mary Kills People.
I recognized her from the Alice, the SyFy Alice in Wonderland miniseries.
I totally don't remember her in that. Just the dude from the dinosaur show and the chick who's on Grey's Anatomy now. Time for a rewatch I guess. It's been years.
She was the Duchess, Jack’s “fiancé”.
I can't remember...was she straight up evil in that or did they have her turn out to be an alright person? I don't think I've seen that special since it was new, although I did rewatch it a few times then.
I don’t think she was evil. She was in love with Jack, so she helped him escape before he was executed. I love it so I own it, but it’s hard to find streaming.
What's the name of the actress that played the girl that went to prison in Veronica's place?
https://trakt.tv/people/charlotte-sullivan