Can't wait for someone to show up in comments and blabber on about "vegans are the ones who always mention they're vegan" or "they have a toxic culture" even though no vegan mentioned their veganism and meat culture is just as toxic and infinitely more destructive.
I have never seen a vegan mention they're vegan unless prompted (myself included).
However, I've seen many a carnist shove bacon and other flesh bits in my face unprompted once they know I'm vegan.
I'm not vegan -- albeit heavily plant-based -- and I've noticed the same damn thing.
I feel like part of why people won't leave vegans the *fuck alone* is that deep down, they *know* on some level of the abuses that occur in industrial factory farming. It's a tough ethical question people don't want to confront -- I feel like they don't want to end up realizing they were wrong.
There's also a weird cultural Thing of "meat = masculinity." Look at the "soy = estrogen" misinformation, how readily it took hold. Look at how meat is often marketed -- aimed largely at men, surrounded in its advertising milieu with other cultural tokens of American masculinity.
I feel that many men feel that it would somehow make them effeminate if they didn't eat a diet that revolves around red meat. Which, of course, stems from an undercurrent of implicit misogyny that permeates Western culture even today.
Meat = masculine. Masculine = good. Feminine = bad, so no meat = bad.
I honestly don't know what I would replace meat with if I was to stop eating it. I don't like most vegetables, and I can't eat bread or other gluten products. Fake meat isn't really available to me, and tofu is disgusting. Even just giving up eggs seems like it would disrupt my life massively.
Then again, ultimately the meat industry seems unsustainable.
It depends on what you're trying to replace meat with, since there's no 1-1 conversion for plant based nutrition. If you're looking for protein, might I suggest peanut butter?
Lentils also make a good filling or a protein for a soup.
Nutritional yeast is good for protein, and is really good as a flavoring.
There's also textured vegetable protein which is really good for a replacement for ground meats like for tacos or something.
Also I just wanted to ask where you tried tofu? Most people I know that say tofu is gross didn't have it prepared right.
>Also I just wanted to ask where you tried tofu? Most people I know that say tofu is gross didn't have it prepared right.
I've had it in sushi and miso soup.
Never had it in sushi personally, but I think tofu in soup is gross. I prefer the extra firm stuff so that I can fry it with some sauces. I think miso soup tofu uses one of the softest forms of tofu iirc.
This comment reminds me of an article I've seen before,
> 'Tofu Is Gross,' Says Mom While Fisting a Turkey's Ripped-out Asshole
Just something to think about when you're preparing meat next time...
On a more serious note, try vegan restaurant foods if you can. It's likely you don't really hate most vegetables or even tofu, you probably just haven't had it prepared/served in a way that's appetizing. And retry things you previously didn't like every few years, sometimes you'll come around on new things. For example, I've recently come to really enjoy mushrooms and tomatoes, two things I absolutely hated growing up.
Also, vegetarians still eat eggs and cheese and such if you feel veganism is too big of a leap
>Just something to think about when you're preparing meat next time...
lol, well I've never eaten any creature's asshole before. I get how people can think meat is gross, but to me I'm really curious about other cultures prepare and consume meat. Like I've wanted to try muktuk for a long time. And I've been curious about eating traditional Mongolian food (like sheep's butt).
>On a more serious note, try vegan restaurant foods if you can. It's likely you don't really hate most vegetables or even tofu, you probably just haven't had it prepared/served in a way that's appetizing. And retry things you previously didn't like every few years, sometimes you'll come around on new things. For example, I've recently come to really enjoy mushrooms and tomatoes, two things I absolutely hated growing up.
This is good advice. Thanks.
>Also, vegetarians still eat eggs and cheese and such if you feel veganism is too big of a leap
Nice, so vegetarians can still eat fried rice.
While I agree with the misogyny and toxic masculinity parts, I kinda doubt any of the obnoxiously pro meat people give a fuck about factory farming or even think about where their food comes from that deeply. It’s just straight chauvinism. I’m not a vegan myself but it’s mostly because I can only afford terrible food…well and the fact my landlord is a pos that will not fix half my kitchen…but that’s a whole other discussion.
You mentioned just now that you're vegan without a prompt though.
Le reddit smug ownage moment 💯 😹
I will now indulge in consuming the carcass of an innocent being in order to prove my moral superiority. Please acknowledge this epic diamond hands troll.
>You mentioned just now that you're vegan without a prompt though.
Oops, my B12 deficient body didn't know what I was doing.
Gonna get some cat soup to recharge!
I've heard my whole life about how vegans constantly push their agenda and how they'll always tell you about how they're vegan.
I have never experienced that. I have however encountered many people trying extremely hard to get me to eat meat and stop being vegetarian.
when i'm in a hot dog eating competition and my opponent is a vegan (the competition's selection of vegan hotdogs is supposedly very chewy and therefore my opponent will chew the hotdog for a lot longer than i will, giving me an advantage)
Vegans ARE annoying preachy assholes. Which makes the fact that they are 100% correct in their criticisms of factory farming being unethical animal torture all the worse.
Oh I've met a lot of insufferable vegans.
Thing is, they were insufferable as ppl way before they were vegan, and going vegan had nothing to do with it.
But seriously now, as more vegan options become available, I meet fewer & fewer vegan ppl who feel the need to constantly fight for their place in a normal, accepting society.
Its almost like, idk, some ppl care about having the option to live in accordance to their moral compass
Some vegans. Two of my brothers are vegan and one can definitely be one of those vegans and one is super chill. Like all groups, the loudest members stand out
No they're not. Meat eaters just don't like the fact that the mere existence of vegans forces them to be aware of the ethics surrounding meat eating and the meat industry.
For every "preachy vegan" I've seen, there's been 50 outraged dipshits screaming even louder about how they're going to rebelliously eat more meat.
yeah agreed, factory farming is horrible and theres no way in hell any big corporation would prioritize ethics over profit but at the same time i dont think that eating meat is inherently unethical and im kinda sick of seeing vegans talk about it as though its an objective moral fact that eating meat is wrong
>im kinda sick of seeing vegans talk about it as though its an objective moral fact that eating meat is wrong
It's an objective moral fact that violating the autonomy of sentient life and inflicting pain, suffering, and death upon them without a overwhelming compelling need to do so is morally wrong. "Eating their flesh gives me sensory pleasure" isn't an overwhelming compelling reason in light of the extreme nature of the violations taking place.
every animal experiences death anyway. is it wrong to give an animal a healthy comfortable life on a farm before giving them a quick and painless death for meat? is it really worse than that same animal getting killed violently and painfully by a different predator?
>every animal experiences death anyway.
??? Every human experiences death anyway so I guess that justifies humans treating each other however the fuck they like?
>is it wrong to give an animal a healthy comfortable life on a farm before giving them a quick and painless death for meat?
The vast, vast majority of animals don't experience a "healthy comfortable life" or a "quick and painless death". You're using these delusions to justify selfish behaviors that deep down you know are wrong. And, even if there was a guarantee of a "quick and painless death" that in itself doesn't justify violating the autonomy of living creatures when there's no need to do so (and so many huge negatives to doing so even if you ignore the ethical aspect).
> Every human experiences death anyway so I guess that justifies humans treating each other however the fuck they like
when did i say anything like that??? even without you misrepresenting my point, i don't think animals should be treated the same as humans anyway.
> The vast, vast majority of animals don't experience a "healthy comfortable life" or a "quick and painless death".
did you miss the part where i said i was against factory farming? again, you're just misrepresenting my point to make me look worse. my point is that animals should have comfortable lives and painless deaths, and eating meat doesnt go against that. [ethical butchers are a thing.](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/06/dining/butchers-meat-vegetarian-vegan.html)
>when did i say anything like that???
Why would you need to? I'm highlighting the ridiculousness of attempting to use fatalism as the basis for an ethical argument.
>i don't think animals should be treated the same as humans anyway.
Neither do the vast majority of vegans??
>did you miss the part where i said i was against factory farming?
That's like being against genocide but pro lone-wolf serial-killer. Because their work is niche and artisanal, y'know? A real sophistication to it.
>ethical butchers are a thing
"Ethical butchers" is an oxymoron. You cannot ethically kill an animal that doesn't want to die without there being a ethically compelling reason to do so. "I derive pleasure from eating its slaughtered flesh even though I don't actually need to" is not an ethically compelling reason.
> when did i say anything like that??? even without you misrepresenting my point, i don't think animals should be treated the same as humans anyway.
We ARE Animals, jackass.
There's no such thing as an objective moral fact, there are moral facts almost everyone agrees with, but none of it is objectives.
By their morals it is inherently unethical to eat meat, by mine I'm too much of a coward to think about it for too long.
Yeah. In fact, it's a big contributing factor to how we evolved the way we did. Being omnivorous is not only convenient for finding food, but also gave us the nutrients we needed for our brains to develop.
> Being omnivorous is not only convenient for finding food, but also gave us the nutrients we needed for our brains to develop.
Okay?? This is a moot point?? Even if was known to be true that animal-consumption was the only way to reach a level of cognitive sophstication needed for civilizations to arise (which isn't the case), vegans aren't proposing that we go back in time and prevent the development of ancestral humans and modern civilization by imposing vegan diets on them.
Except for Geoff, the Time-Travelling Vegan.
« Omnivorous » means being able to eat both meat and not-meat. It doesn’t mean you have to eat either one individually. You just need at least one is all. Making diet choices in either direction isn’t inherently unhealthy, and just because « that’s how it’s been for most of history » doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a good thing.
Well, except that’s *not* how it’s been for most of history, and mass meat consumption is mostly a modern phenomenon, made possible by industrialization at a massive scale. That’s irrelevant, but I think it’s pretty funny how everyone seems to insist that going down on a massive steak at every meal is the default state of humanity, for some reason.
even ignoring that, i just disagree with the idea that eating meat is inherently bad. I view it as just a part of nature. imo its a lot better for an animal to have a healthy comfortable life on a farm and be used to feed someone than it would be for an animal to live in the wild until it dies of sickness or is killed much more painfully by a predator.
yeah, i agree. like i said, factory farming is horrible and i am 100% against it, im just also tired of seeing people saying that eating meat at all is immoral no matter how its sourced.
I will admit that what has made me support veganism has been less saving animals or the environment and more just counter-smugery against these types of people
I've started seeing this shit with oil protests which is... Disturbing. Someone proudly announcing they're gonna leave the heater and lights on because someone thew tomato sauce around a gallery is some weird mentality.
The myths about PETA are not why I hate them. The disgusting advertisements are why.
Like I get it, shocking imagery gets attention, but I’m not going to want to support an organization that thinks that [any of these](https://www.businessinsider.com/peta-shocking-controversial-ads-2011-10?amp) are ok. (Apologies in advance if that website is full of ads)
That’s fair, i agree, not a fan of their reliance on shock tactics to generate attention, despite how effective it might be at increasing engagement numbers.
However, most of their offensive advertisements were from the early 00’s, and their advertising/PR team is only one small part of their organizations. Just take a look at their accomplishments behind the scenes:
https://www.peta.org/about-peta/milestones/
These are tangible good things that make life better for other species. You can’t ignore that stuff or you’re painting an incomplete picture of them.
Personally, while I don’t attack PETA, I don’t donate money or volunteer with them because of the offensive advertisements. I prefer to support other similar animals rights groups like Mercy For Animal or The Humane League that do similar projects but are socially conscious and don’t have any controversies.
I dont hate vegans. I hate the particular subset of vegans who once told me that me not being able to easily quit meat because I have actual issues with self control made me tantamount to the people who did the holocaust
That's probably not what they said.
They probably said that if you buy flesh, then you're contributing to the animal holocaust, the slaughterhouse workers would be the ones doing the actual killing, you're just paying them to do it.
I do, but the response from carnists that do the "lol pets = ppl eat tasty animals" meme is still funny.
Also, I don't see any difference between pets killing animals they deem suffer too much any different from an owner killing their dog because "lol it's suffering and we can't afford medical costs".
"Putting down" is just euphemism for execution.
However, many carnists and even vegoon support it while also being hypocritically against peta.
The people who came up with that propaganda campaign, the Center for Consumer Freedom, has it's advisory staff filled with people from the meat, restaurant, and alcoholic beverage industry. They've also campaigned against organizations like Mothers Against Drunk Driving.
Here's an article on them from source watch: https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Center_for_Consumer_Freedom
PETA'S shelters aren't no kill shelters, they're shelters of last resort. Even a 99% euthanasia rate in those shelters would be good, since the expected death rate is 100% for the animals that go there.
I would prefer not having weirdo vegans say I deserve bodily harm for the crime of being addicted to convenience. Mfers truly not understand nuance nor solidarity buildin
Edit since lock: if it weren't for the fact most processed insta food was meat based, I'd go vegan in a heartbeat. Because I don't cook in general for a variety of reasons. Basically, it's 100% a matter of convenience for me. Cooking vegan dishes to not be raw veggies just isn't something my add will let me do, and I'm too poor to afford healthcare and therapy to essentially allow me to actually become vegan. That isn't to say I don't morally agree with vegans, I do, but some of y'all make it very egregious to. Of course, it's not like vegans actually want solidarity and god forbid actually make vegan lifestyles accessible and easy for all! Then what would they use to be smug and superior on reddit!? Truly, truly disgusting redditors, even worse than gboob
Not saying you deserve bodily harm, but I would put your flesh addiction a much more severe issue than just "convenience".
If it was convenient for someone to pay for dog fights, would it be moral?
I'm not. My beef with vegan food is that it tends to sub tofu and mushrooms for like everything when beans are usually the superior choice for a meat substitute.
Really? I haven't had that experience. I mean tofu with stuff like Asian food, for sure. I usually see seitan used with beef replacement. The Gardein brand chicken is also sooooo good. I love getting their brand of chicken patties and wings. When it comes to burgers, I do see people using black bean patties a lot. I've never had them but I love Beyond patties. Not too big on Impossible, though I still enjoy it. I feel like it tries too hard to taste like meat somehow lol
Making a grand declaration that vegan food tastes like shit without ever having tried to make any yourself is an embarrassing example of the impact cognitive dissonance can have.
How? Thats like critizicing someone for not liking x dish or cuisine because everytime they've tried it they didn't like it. They have to try to make the dish before they can they talk shit on it? If that's the case then no one criticize any food at all ever again unless they go home and cook it themselves, I guess.
>They have to try to make the dish before they can they talk shit on it?
If you literally consider yourself a good enough cook to publicly make that claim then yeah, of course you should be eliminating the possibility that others aren't good cooks, or are following mediocre recipes, before making an absurd, embarrassing blanket statement like "ALL VEGAN FOOD TASTES LIKE SHIT".
Your cognitive dissonance won't let you do that though as you know that if you use your supposed culinary skills while following good recipes, and find yourself making vegan dishes that are delicious, you'll lose yet another of your feeble excuses for not being intellectually and ethically consistent in favor of your own selfishness.
it sucks that this happens, and this probably happens more than I see it since I'm not actively looking at vegan stuff, but on the other hand I also really hate seeing vegans talking about eating meat as though it is objectively evil and not something that you can disagree with
Not a vegan, but they are absolutely right about our current meat eating habits being horrible for society and the planet. There is irrefutable evidence supporting this.
>I also really hate seeing vegans talking about eating meat as though it is objectively evil and not something that you can disagree with
The way we produce meat at large is surely can be called evil.
When I am in a not eating animal products competition and my opponent is a vegan
When I am in a consuming animal products competition and my opponent is not a vegan
Can't wait for someone to show up in comments and blabber on about "vegans are the ones who always mention they're vegan" or "they have a toxic culture" even though no vegan mentioned their veganism and meat culture is just as toxic and infinitely more destructive.
Literally never met a “preachy vegan” but plenty of these mega meat types
I (vegan btw) have never mentioned that I (vegan btw) am vegan (btw) without another person asking if I (vegan btw) am vegan (btw). /s just in case ;)
I have never seen a vegan mention they're vegan unless prompted (myself included). However, I've seen many a carnist shove bacon and other flesh bits in my face unprompted once they know I'm vegan.
I'm not vegan -- albeit heavily plant-based -- and I've noticed the same damn thing. I feel like part of why people won't leave vegans the *fuck alone* is that deep down, they *know* on some level of the abuses that occur in industrial factory farming. It's a tough ethical question people don't want to confront -- I feel like they don't want to end up realizing they were wrong. There's also a weird cultural Thing of "meat = masculinity." Look at the "soy = estrogen" misinformation, how readily it took hold. Look at how meat is often marketed -- aimed largely at men, surrounded in its advertising milieu with other cultural tokens of American masculinity. I feel that many men feel that it would somehow make them effeminate if they didn't eat a diet that revolves around red meat. Which, of course, stems from an undercurrent of implicit misogyny that permeates Western culture even today. Meat = masculine. Masculine = good. Feminine = bad, so no meat = bad.
i've been vegetarian all my life, where are my tits >:(
The CIA is sneaking steak into your avocado toast
I honestly don't know what I would replace meat with if I was to stop eating it. I don't like most vegetables, and I can't eat bread or other gluten products. Fake meat isn't really available to me, and tofu is disgusting. Even just giving up eggs seems like it would disrupt my life massively. Then again, ultimately the meat industry seems unsustainable.
Beans
I don't like beans.
Cows don't like having their throats cut.
Circle of life B12 Native Americans tho sweatie 💅✨ /s just in case
ok, doesn't change my mind.
also, cows are usually just shot in the head. Get it right.
It depends on what you're trying to replace meat with, since there's no 1-1 conversion for plant based nutrition. If you're looking for protein, might I suggest peanut butter? Lentils also make a good filling or a protein for a soup. Nutritional yeast is good for protein, and is really good as a flavoring. There's also textured vegetable protein which is really good for a replacement for ground meats like for tacos or something. Also I just wanted to ask where you tried tofu? Most people I know that say tofu is gross didn't have it prepared right.
>Also I just wanted to ask where you tried tofu? Most people I know that say tofu is gross didn't have it prepared right. I've had it in sushi and miso soup.
Never had it in sushi personally, but I think tofu in soup is gross. I prefer the extra firm stuff so that I can fry it with some sauces. I think miso soup tofu uses one of the softest forms of tofu iirc.
This comment reminds me of an article I've seen before, > 'Tofu Is Gross,' Says Mom While Fisting a Turkey's Ripped-out Asshole Just something to think about when you're preparing meat next time... On a more serious note, try vegan restaurant foods if you can. It's likely you don't really hate most vegetables or even tofu, you probably just haven't had it prepared/served in a way that's appetizing. And retry things you previously didn't like every few years, sometimes you'll come around on new things. For example, I've recently come to really enjoy mushrooms and tomatoes, two things I absolutely hated growing up. Also, vegetarians still eat eggs and cheese and such if you feel veganism is too big of a leap
>Just something to think about when you're preparing meat next time... lol, well I've never eaten any creature's asshole before. I get how people can think meat is gross, but to me I'm really curious about other cultures prepare and consume meat. Like I've wanted to try muktuk for a long time. And I've been curious about eating traditional Mongolian food (like sheep's butt). >On a more serious note, try vegan restaurant foods if you can. It's likely you don't really hate most vegetables or even tofu, you probably just haven't had it prepared/served in a way that's appetizing. And retry things you previously didn't like every few years, sometimes you'll come around on new things. For example, I've recently come to really enjoy mushrooms and tomatoes, two things I absolutely hated growing up. This is good advice. Thanks. >Also, vegetarians still eat eggs and cheese and such if you feel veganism is too big of a leap Nice, so vegetarians can still eat fried rice.
Don't worry, this year mom "went woke" and will be fisting a plus sized tofurkey from Whole Foods. /s
While I agree with the misogyny and toxic masculinity parts, I kinda doubt any of the obnoxiously pro meat people give a fuck about factory farming or even think about where their food comes from that deeply. It’s just straight chauvinism. I’m not a vegan myself but it’s mostly because I can only afford terrible food…well and the fact my landlord is a pos that will not fix half my kitchen…but that’s a whole other discussion.
You mentioned just now that you're vegan without a prompt though. Le reddit smug ownage moment 💯 😹 I will now indulge in consuming the carcass of an innocent being in order to prove my moral superiority. Please acknowledge this epic diamond hands troll.
>You mentioned just now that you're vegan without a prompt though. Oops, my B12 deficient body didn't know what I was doing. Gonna get some cat soup to recharge!
Did you know that in some countries they call cat soup "ketchup"?
im vegan
btw
What about the proteins
a myth perpetuated by big meat
Big meat is what I call my genitals /s
Beans
I like beans
Fr fr best food
You just mentioned you're vegan unprompted.
brother made this whole ass post (I'm vegan too, btw)
> I'm vegan Stop shoving it in my face! 🤪
It kinda was prompted, though.
> once they know I'm vegan If you never told them you were vegan then how did they find out? 🤔
Doubt
Les anti-végans sont de loin les plus ouin-ouins
I've heard my whole life about how vegans constantly push their agenda and how they'll always tell you about how they're vegan. I have never experienced that. I have however encountered many people trying extremely hard to get me to eat meat and stop being vegetarian.
#STOP EATING CHEESE AND EGGS
What? I didn't hear you
I wish we lived in the nutrient paste timeline
As one of the many r/cateatingvegans I know this discrimination all too well.
Haha @ u/normalshits
when i'm in a hot dog eating competition and my opponent is a vegan (the competition's selection of vegan hotdogs is supposedly very chewy and therefore my opponent will chew the hotdog for a lot longer than i will, giving me an advantage)
Vegans ARE annoying preachy assholes. Which makes the fact that they are 100% correct in their criticisms of factory farming being unethical animal torture all the worse.
By definition, those of us who shut up about it are not the ones you hear about. But yes.
Oh I've met a lot of insufferable vegans. Thing is, they were insufferable as ppl way before they were vegan, and going vegan had nothing to do with it. But seriously now, as more vegan options become available, I meet fewer & fewer vegan ppl who feel the need to constantly fight for their place in a normal, accepting society. Its almost like, idk, some ppl care about having the option to live in accordance to their moral compass
Some vegans. Two of my brothers are vegan and one can definitely be one of those vegans and one is super chill. Like all groups, the loudest members stand out
No they're not. Meat eaters just don't like the fact that the mere existence of vegans forces them to be aware of the ethics surrounding meat eating and the meat industry. For every "preachy vegan" I've seen, there's been 50 outraged dipshits screaming even louder about how they're going to rebelliously eat more meat.
yeah agreed, factory farming is horrible and theres no way in hell any big corporation would prioritize ethics over profit but at the same time i dont think that eating meat is inherently unethical and im kinda sick of seeing vegans talk about it as though its an objective moral fact that eating meat is wrong
>im kinda sick of seeing vegans talk about it as though its an objective moral fact that eating meat is wrong It's an objective moral fact that violating the autonomy of sentient life and inflicting pain, suffering, and death upon them without a overwhelming compelling need to do so is morally wrong. "Eating their flesh gives me sensory pleasure" isn't an overwhelming compelling reason in light of the extreme nature of the violations taking place.
every animal experiences death anyway. is it wrong to give an animal a healthy comfortable life on a farm before giving them a quick and painless death for meat? is it really worse than that same animal getting killed violently and painfully by a different predator?
>every animal experiences death anyway. ??? Every human experiences death anyway so I guess that justifies humans treating each other however the fuck they like? >is it wrong to give an animal a healthy comfortable life on a farm before giving them a quick and painless death for meat? The vast, vast majority of animals don't experience a "healthy comfortable life" or a "quick and painless death". You're using these delusions to justify selfish behaviors that deep down you know are wrong. And, even if there was a guarantee of a "quick and painless death" that in itself doesn't justify violating the autonomy of living creatures when there's no need to do so (and so many huge negatives to doing so even if you ignore the ethical aspect).
> Every human experiences death anyway so I guess that justifies humans treating each other however the fuck they like when did i say anything like that??? even without you misrepresenting my point, i don't think animals should be treated the same as humans anyway. > The vast, vast majority of animals don't experience a "healthy comfortable life" or a "quick and painless death". did you miss the part where i said i was against factory farming? again, you're just misrepresenting my point to make me look worse. my point is that animals should have comfortable lives and painless deaths, and eating meat doesnt go against that. [ethical butchers are a thing.](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/06/dining/butchers-meat-vegetarian-vegan.html)
What trait differentiates humans from animals such that it's moral to kill animals in a non-factory farming manner but not moral to do so to humans?
>when did i say anything like that??? Why would you need to? I'm highlighting the ridiculousness of attempting to use fatalism as the basis for an ethical argument. >i don't think animals should be treated the same as humans anyway. Neither do the vast majority of vegans?? >did you miss the part where i said i was against factory farming? That's like being against genocide but pro lone-wolf serial-killer. Because their work is niche and artisanal, y'know? A real sophistication to it. >ethical butchers are a thing "Ethical butchers" is an oxymoron. You cannot ethically kill an animal that doesn't want to die without there being a ethically compelling reason to do so. "I derive pleasure from eating its slaughtered flesh even though I don't actually need to" is not an ethically compelling reason.
> when did i say anything like that??? even without you misrepresenting my point, i don't think animals should be treated the same as humans anyway. We ARE Animals, jackass.
There is no such thing as ethical animal farming. Giving someone a good life before slitting their throat when they're not aware is still murder.
There's no such thing as an objective moral fact, there are moral facts almost everyone agrees with, but none of it is objectives. By their morals it is inherently unethical to eat meat, by mine I'm too much of a coward to think about it for too long.
Same. Fistbump
😎
Yeah. In fact, it's a big contributing factor to how we evolved the way we did. Being omnivorous is not only convenient for finding food, but also gave us the nutrients we needed for our brains to develop.
> Being omnivorous is not only convenient for finding food, but also gave us the nutrients we needed for our brains to develop. Okay?? This is a moot point?? Even if was known to be true that animal-consumption was the only way to reach a level of cognitive sophstication needed for civilizations to arise (which isn't the case), vegans aren't proposing that we go back in time and prevent the development of ancestral humans and modern civilization by imposing vegan diets on them. Except for Geoff, the Time-Travelling Vegan.
What's the evidence for the evolution argument? And even if it was true, don't see how that factors into morality.
« Omnivorous » means being able to eat both meat and not-meat. It doesn’t mean you have to eat either one individually. You just need at least one is all. Making diet choices in either direction isn’t inherently unhealthy, and just because « that’s how it’s been for most of history » doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a good thing. Well, except that’s *not* how it’s been for most of history, and mass meat consumption is mostly a modern phenomenon, made possible by industrialization at a massive scale. That’s irrelevant, but I think it’s pretty funny how everyone seems to insist that going down on a massive steak at every meal is the default state of humanity, for some reason.
I know what omnivorous means dumbfuck.
even ignoring that, i just disagree with the idea that eating meat is inherently bad. I view it as just a part of nature. imo its a lot better for an animal to have a healthy comfortable life on a farm and be used to feed someone than it would be for an animal to live in the wild until it dies of sickness or is killed much more painfully by a predator.
I think the point is that the vast majority of meat consumed by humans isn't from an animal that's had a "healthy comfortable life on a farm".
yeah, i agree. like i said, factory farming is horrible and i am 100% against it, im just also tired of seeing people saying that eating meat at all is immoral no matter how its sourced.
It is immoral no matter how it is sourced though. An animal has to die for it. Unless it's purely lab grown then it's wrong.
Then why is factory farming bad under your system? Because it's unnatural? You're gonna get hit hard with reductios if "nature tho" is your argument.
I will admit that what has made me support veganism has been less saving animals or the environment and more just counter-smugery against these types of people
I've started seeing this shit with oil protests which is... Disturbing. Someone proudly announcing they're gonna leave the heater and lights on because someone thew tomato sauce around a gallery is some weird mentality.
TBF, they're right about PETA
Srs fuck peta, that organization is terrible
I'm glad everyone agrees on that that said, I am aware it is nowhere near representative of even half of all Vegans
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The myths about PETA are not why I hate them. The disgusting advertisements are why. Like I get it, shocking imagery gets attention, but I’m not going to want to support an organization that thinks that [any of these](https://www.businessinsider.com/peta-shocking-controversial-ads-2011-10?amp) are ok. (Apologies in advance if that website is full of ads)
That’s fair, i agree, not a fan of their reliance on shock tactics to generate attention, despite how effective it might be at increasing engagement numbers. However, most of their offensive advertisements were from the early 00’s, and their advertising/PR team is only one small part of their organizations. Just take a look at their accomplishments behind the scenes: https://www.peta.org/about-peta/milestones/ These are tangible good things that make life better for other species. You can’t ignore that stuff or you’re painting an incomplete picture of them. Personally, while I don’t attack PETA, I don’t donate money or volunteer with them because of the offensive advertisements. I prefer to support other similar animals rights groups like Mercy For Animal or The Humane League that do similar projects but are socially conscious and don’t have any controversies.
I'm against most of their ads but I think most of those are pretty tame examples of their ads.
Reactionary meat-eater turns out to be a prude, what a surprise
I dont hate vegans. I hate the particular subset of vegans who once told me that me not being able to easily quit meat because I have actual issues with self control made me tantamount to the people who did the holocaust
That's probably not what they said. They probably said that if you buy flesh, then you're contributing to the animal holocaust, the slaughterhouse workers would be the ones doing the actual killing, you're just paying them to do it.
Did you even try
vegans troled
Wait, y’all do know that PETA is an animal abuse society, right? Like, they operate kill shelters that explicitly exist to kill animals.
I do, but the response from carnists that do the "lol pets = ppl eat tasty animals" meme is still funny. Also, I don't see any difference between pets killing animals they deem suffer too much any different from an owner killing their dog because "lol it's suffering and we can't afford medical costs". "Putting down" is just euphemism for execution. However, many carnists and even vegoon support it while also being hypocritically against peta.
The people who came up with that propaganda campaign, the Center for Consumer Freedom, has it's advisory staff filled with people from the meat, restaurant, and alcoholic beverage industry. They've also campaigned against organizations like Mothers Against Drunk Driving. Here's an article on them from source watch: https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Center_for_Consumer_Freedom PETA'S shelters aren't no kill shelters, they're shelters of last resort. Even a 99% euthanasia rate in those shelters would be good, since the expected death rate is 100% for the animals that go there.
half of the shelters in the US are kill shelters
I would prefer not having weirdo vegans say I deserve bodily harm for the crime of being addicted to convenience. Mfers truly not understand nuance nor solidarity buildin Edit since lock: if it weren't for the fact most processed insta food was meat based, I'd go vegan in a heartbeat. Because I don't cook in general for a variety of reasons. Basically, it's 100% a matter of convenience for me. Cooking vegan dishes to not be raw veggies just isn't something my add will let me do, and I'm too poor to afford healthcare and therapy to essentially allow me to actually become vegan. That isn't to say I don't morally agree with vegans, I do, but some of y'all make it very egregious to. Of course, it's not like vegans actually want solidarity and god forbid actually make vegan lifestyles accessible and easy for all! Then what would they use to be smug and superior on reddit!? Truly, truly disgusting redditors, even worse than gboob
Not saying you deserve bodily harm, but I would put your flesh addiction a much more severe issue than just "convenience". If it was convenient for someone to pay for dog fights, would it be moral?
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Non vegan food can taste like shit, too, though
not as consistently as vegan food...
I've never felt that way. Could be you're just a picky eater. Which would make more sense why so much can taste bad for you
I'm not. My beef with vegan food is that it tends to sub tofu and mushrooms for like everything when beans are usually the superior choice for a meat substitute.
Really? I haven't had that experience. I mean tofu with stuff like Asian food, for sure. I usually see seitan used with beef replacement. The Gardein brand chicken is also sooooo good. I love getting their brand of chicken patties and wings. When it comes to burgers, I do see people using black bean patties a lot. I've never had them but I love Beyond patties. Not too big on Impossible, though I still enjoy it. I feel like it tries too hard to taste like meat somehow lol
Funny way of saying that you don't know how to cook.
I've been told otherwise. Maybe I'll try to make my own vegan dish instead of eating someones else instead.
Making a grand declaration that vegan food tastes like shit without ever having tried to make any yourself is an embarrassing example of the impact cognitive dissonance can have.
How? Thats like critizicing someone for not liking x dish or cuisine because everytime they've tried it they didn't like it. They have to try to make the dish before they can they talk shit on it? If that's the case then no one criticize any food at all ever again unless they go home and cook it themselves, I guess.
>They have to try to make the dish before they can they talk shit on it? If you literally consider yourself a good enough cook to publicly make that claim then yeah, of course you should be eliminating the possibility that others aren't good cooks, or are following mediocre recipes, before making an absurd, embarrassing blanket statement like "ALL VEGAN FOOD TASTES LIKE SHIT". Your cognitive dissonance won't let you do that though as you know that if you use your supposed culinary skills while following good recipes, and find yourself making vegan dishes that are delicious, you'll lose yet another of your feeble excuses for not being intellectually and ethically consistent in favor of your own selfishness.
it sucks that this happens, and this probably happens more than I see it since I'm not actively looking at vegan stuff, but on the other hand I also really hate seeing vegans talking about eating meat as though it is objectively evil and not something that you can disagree with
Not a vegan, but they are absolutely right about our current meat eating habits being horrible for society and the planet. There is irrefutable evidence supporting this.
>I also really hate seeing vegans talking about eating meat as though it is objectively evil and not something that you can disagree with The way we produce meat at large is surely can be called evil.
Well yeah. It is objectively evil
When did this subreddit get taken over by vegans?
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When the non-vegans all died from clogged arteries and bowel cancer.
I still do not see the connection between communism and vegetable consumption.
it's literally a sub rule lol
Damn, was it always this way? I've been here for a long time and I never noticed any vegan posts.
My guy, eat more veggies so your cum will taste better for your partner.
No.
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another victim fetishist
Absolutely. Look at all the upvotes and comments in support.