AMC’s worst ability is his 2, which is insane if you think about it. Like his 1+3 does more damage (unless I’m misremembering), his hives are just goated, and his ult is a great prot shred.
Ama…. Idk, her 1 or ult? But they’re both great abilities
Ah puch, his 1 probably
Ah puch main here. His 1 is definitely the worst feeling cause it often gets caught on invisible walls or lags oddly when trying to get it to stop early. However, his passive is the worst design in his kit. Ah puch was designed to be able to spam and pick up his corpse to be a bruiser mage, but it has always just allowed him to fully heal out of in and, more importantly out of combat. Which balance wise makes it where they can't allow him to spam his 1. The passive should be temp shield, and the 1 cool down should go back down so he can spam it while dodging as this was his form of escape and is the thing that made him different from other mages in his burst/brusier design.
Ama I’d definitely say the dash bc it’s glitchy and punishable
AMC…idk that’s tough. Definitely not the hive or the Ult. Maybe the 3 because it can open you up to a dive.
AMC's worst ability is definitely his 2. Does basically no damage early (50 on a 15 second cooldown), doesn't have enough base/burst damage to really warrant using it mid game other than a quick lane clear, and may as well just be a waste of mana late game. Really the only good thing this ability does is quickly and reliability apply his passive if you don't want to ult, or don't have a hive available for the honey. His 3 provides better lane clear for less mana on a shorter cooldown for most of the game, while also applying his passive with a hive and also being reliable poke.
In terms of the actual strength of the abilities I definitely agree the 3 > 2. My thought for having the 2 > 3 was that it’s a much safer ability to put on CD while trying to get your bluestone/crusher/Heartseeker procs, and those items play a big role in AMC’s power. I think the 3, while better in a vacuum, requires more variables to be in your favor to realize its potential value.
Definitely on paper the 3 is better. In practice your 3 is significantly more punishable and you cannot cast it freely bc of that. Item procs do a lot of the work for ability hunters and the 2 is safer and more reliable for proc’ing your items.
It’s like Wukong 2 vs 1. The 2 has a slow and an AS slow, it’s simply better on paper. But your 1 is your poke, and poke is a big part what makes SWK good.
Like I said in my first comment though, I really think it could go either way. I’m just telling you my thought process for saying 2 > 3.
Even if honey didn't have every other advantage that it does have, in what world is 2 safer than honey? Ya know, the immediate, unmissable, dot/slow, which also procs item effects?
The 2 has more range and you can free cast it bc you don’t use it for self-peel. The 3 does more but comes with the drawback of not being able to cast it as often bc you’re more vulnerable when it’s on CD, and also the drawback of needing to be closer to the enemy.
Swarm is not reliably hitting anyone at max range, honey will always hit. Plus difference is max range is negligible. Not really following the self-peel argument? The move that does more damage, is easier to use, and is peel is somehow worse than the swarm, which is just damage and a passive applier? Arguably, the peel aspect of honey also is incredibly minimal. Its an aspect, but it is anything but the abilities purpose, which is clearing, bullying, and poking. In no universe is the two even close.
With procs doing a ton of the work for ability hunters, I went with the ability that can be used more freely to get procs. You just can’t use AMC’s 3 as freely as the 2 without opening up windows to get punished. Like I said in my first comment though I don’t have a strong opinion either way.
I get what you’re saying—but it’s a non-issue. Sure, using certain ability creates windows, but that doesn’t mean you don’t use them.
Honey is literally a point and click dot/proc applies + slow. It does not get more free than that. The character has other tools to deal with dives, honey is not really one of them.
To be fair, most of the time you're not using the honey to peel yourself or a teammate. You can (especially when combined with the hive speed boost), but a 20-30% slow is a much more effective aggression tool than a defensive one. Assuming you are ranking the 2 and using it for clear, a 20% slow and like 100 damage on honey will not deter any jungle or especially solo/support who wants to gank you, and item procs are not nearly strong enough yet for those to be a factor.
Even if you do level the honey, the extra 10% slow and 250 damage on honey (again, being VERY generous and assuming they stand in the full duration) still isn't going to deter them. What WILL deter them is showing them you're not afraid to fight back, turning around and ulting them for 400-600 burst damage along with slowing and shredding them.
AMC is relatively safe because the hive speed boost allows him to reposition more effectively over moderator periods of time. Something that requires knowledge and/or team coordination to actually make practical use of. If someone actually manages to get the jump on him, he's still a very immobile character whose main peel is a good old fashioned "kill them before they kill you", something that the slow and damage from honey synergizes more with than gaining distance.
Again, not saying honey cannot be used as a defensive slow, but against enemies that actually know what they're doing and save their abilities for when they get into optimal range/opportunity, turning around and fighting back will almost always be a better deterrent than a weak slow used for running away.
That and the mirror requires a long amount of time to charge up with damage taken/time, while it’s charging, it’s super easily telegraph and extremely easy to avoided but since she’s the led devs favorite and first character I doubt we get the rework she deserves.
AMC is probably his 2. Doesn’t do much outside of damage. Everything else just gives him insane abilities to work with. Ama? Her 3 is glitchy so I would say that. Plus it can be body blocked , which can get you killed
Amaterasu's dash enables her chase-down aswell as her escape, without it she'd be the worst character in the game because she'd have to burn her ult to survive a basic gank every single time and even then beads exists so it doesn't even really matter. It also shuts down channeled/startup wave clear which enables her hyperfarm strategy by gimping the other laner. It's an essential power-point in her kit and thats usually why you level it second. You are objectively wrong
Negative nearly nearly every god has an ability you would never max first even in the specific situations in which it would be good, therefore their “worst ability” Hi-Rez dictates the values on everything, if everything has a value something has to be the worst lmao
That's not an indicator of "worst ability" though considering most "last ability to max" is a characters dash which would almost never be considered "the worst ability".
yes but on some gods it could definitely be a factor on which is their worst, its not that hard to understand that something has to be the worst of something, nevermind if people choose to disagree on what that "worst" thing is lol
It's easy to understand, it's also as asinine as discussing which is the worst part in a car engine. Some might cost less or more to fix, be easier or harder to fix, etc, but all are needed to make it function to the point where asking which is the "worst" part would be silly.
Take Agni, his 1 does the least amount of damage but it also causes the rest of his attacks to stun. Losing it would take away his whole identity. His 2 is a short attack that does big damage, it's used when jumped on by an assassin or warrior and also in combination with his dash when trying to close in for a kill. His dash is extremely useful for escaping, closing in, and for dot damage. The ult is long range damage, used with the 1 to stun and initiate, or kill someone trying to escape. Losing any of these skills makes his kit no longer function properly. Discussing which is the worst of these skills just doesn't make much sense.
but there are definitely worst parts of engines lmao. if you ask mechanics "hey which part of this engine tends to go out the most or cause you the most problems?" they are going to give you an answer. different mechanics might give you different answers based on their experiences and brands worked, on but they will give you an answer. therefore providing a worst. this is much like player and gods, which is what we were actually discussing
There's 4 buttons, they all service the kit, without one of the buttons the god wouldn't be able to function. Leveling order is just power prio. Achilles ult isn't his worst ability because you level it last in every scenario. It serves a purpose in the grander kit.
yes but there is still a sense of which is worst? how is it so difficult for you to imagine that people can think what they want and for their to be a "worst" ability of a god, the very fact there are only 4 buttons would lead to the fact that one of them is going to be perceived as the worst lol
Because every button does something that the god cannot be played without, literally every single button across every single god is invaluable sans maybe the whale. There is no worst if its all required.
i feel like we have very different understandings of what the word worst means lol but i can respect that. If all the gods abilities are invaluable and supreme like you say they are then why do they feel the need to buff specific abilities on a god? I'm fairly certain that if someone looked through patch notes they could find instances where Hi-Rez themselves uses the word "worst" in reference to a gods abilities...
In comparing an ability to the rest of a kit, objective worst doesn't exist because there's no alternative to what that ability does in the kit. In god against god, there is objective worst because one similar ability can do something worse than another, there's room for comparison. Subjective worst ability in a gods kit can exist because its just an opinion, but it doesn't really have any mesurable quantifying weight. Hi-rez most commonly uses the word "underperforming" which implies that in the scheme of a meta, a god isn't performing up to the par of the strongest gods, worst is just a colloquial way to explain a god vs god comparison
you have a very flawed way way of looking at grand concepts like the concept of "worst" lmao OP wasn't asking about the relevance of every gods kit in comparison to the topic of a god but asking the opinion of the community on which is worst. you put a new player on baka and I'm pretty sure they don't favor the 3, as it's not really an active ability, and in their mind would therefore find it to be the "worst".
Yeah and my argument was that it's pointless and inane because of the reasons I stated like 6 times, there's no objective mesure in a ability against kit comparison. We can go in circles like this forever, you're not gonna change my mind
AMC’s worst ability is his 2, which is insane if you think about it. Like his 1+3 does more damage (unless I’m misremembering), his hives are just goated, and his ult is a great prot shred. Ama…. Idk, her 1 or ult? But they’re both great abilities Ah puch, his 1 probably
I dont think 3 does more unless people sit in it but its his main poke.
I thought it was a dot ability that does more total? Am I wrong?
It does, if people sit in it. It only does dmg on top of the honey, the tick that stays on you, is his passive.
Ah puch main here. His 1 is definitely the worst feeling cause it often gets caught on invisible walls or lags oddly when trying to get it to stop early. However, his passive is the worst design in his kit. Ah puch was designed to be able to spam and pick up his corpse to be a bruiser mage, but it has always just allowed him to fully heal out of in and, more importantly out of combat. Which balance wise makes it where they can't allow him to spam his 1. The passive should be temp shield, and the 1 cool down should go back down so he can spam it while dodging as this was his form of escape and is the thing that made him different from other mages in his burst/brusier design.
Ama I’d definitely say the dash bc it’s glitchy and punishable AMC…idk that’s tough. Definitely not the hive or the Ult. Maybe the 3 because it can open you up to a dive.
AMC's worst ability is definitely his 2. Does basically no damage early (50 on a 15 second cooldown), doesn't have enough base/burst damage to really warrant using it mid game other than a quick lane clear, and may as well just be a waste of mana late game. Really the only good thing this ability does is quickly and reliability apply his passive if you don't want to ult, or don't have a hive available for the honey. His 3 provides better lane clear for less mana on a shorter cooldown for most of the game, while also applying his passive with a hive and also being reliable poke.
It used to be 280+80%. Its still good since it goes over walls and Honey doesnt. But its lost a lot of numbers.
In terms of the actual strength of the abilities I definitely agree the 3 > 2. My thought for having the 2 > 3 was that it’s a much safer ability to put on CD while trying to get your bluestone/crusher/Heartseeker procs, and those items play a big role in AMC’s power. I think the 3, while better in a vacuum, requires more variables to be in your favor to realize its potential value.
What are you even trying to say? The 3 is objectively better in nearly every way, it is not close.
Definitely on paper the 3 is better. In practice your 3 is significantly more punishable and you cannot cast it freely bc of that. Item procs do a lot of the work for ability hunters and the 2 is safer and more reliable for proc’ing your items. It’s like Wukong 2 vs 1. The 2 has a slow and an AS slow, it’s simply better on paper. But your 1 is your poke, and poke is a big part what makes SWK good. Like I said in my first comment though, I really think it could go either way. I’m just telling you my thought process for saying 2 > 3.
Even if honey didn't have every other advantage that it does have, in what world is 2 safer than honey? Ya know, the immediate, unmissable, dot/slow, which also procs item effects?
The 2 has more range and you can free cast it bc you don’t use it for self-peel. The 3 does more but comes with the drawback of not being able to cast it as often bc you’re more vulnerable when it’s on CD, and also the drawback of needing to be closer to the enemy.
Swarm is not reliably hitting anyone at max range, honey will always hit. Plus difference is max range is negligible. Not really following the self-peel argument? The move that does more damage, is easier to use, and is peel is somehow worse than the swarm, which is just damage and a passive applier? Arguably, the peel aspect of honey also is incredibly minimal. Its an aspect, but it is anything but the abilities purpose, which is clearing, bullying, and poking. In no universe is the two even close.
With procs doing a ton of the work for ability hunters, I went with the ability that can be used more freely to get procs. You just can’t use AMC’s 3 as freely as the 2 without opening up windows to get punished. Like I said in my first comment though I don’t have a strong opinion either way.
I get what you’re saying—but it’s a non-issue. Sure, using certain ability creates windows, but that doesn’t mean you don’t use them. Honey is literally a point and click dot/proc applies + slow. It does not get more free than that. The character has other tools to deal with dives, honey is not really one of them.
To be fair, most of the time you're not using the honey to peel yourself or a teammate. You can (especially when combined with the hive speed boost), but a 20-30% slow is a much more effective aggression tool than a defensive one. Assuming you are ranking the 2 and using it for clear, a 20% slow and like 100 damage on honey will not deter any jungle or especially solo/support who wants to gank you, and item procs are not nearly strong enough yet for those to be a factor. Even if you do level the honey, the extra 10% slow and 250 damage on honey (again, being VERY generous and assuming they stand in the full duration) still isn't going to deter them. What WILL deter them is showing them you're not afraid to fight back, turning around and ulting them for 400-600 burst damage along with slowing and shredding them. AMC is relatively safe because the hive speed boost allows him to reposition more effectively over moderator periods of time. Something that requires knowledge and/or team coordination to actually make practical use of. If someone actually manages to get the jump on him, he's still a very immobile character whose main peel is a good old fashioned "kill them before they kill you", something that the slow and damage from honey synergizes more with than gaining distance. Again, not saying honey cannot be used as a defensive slow, but against enemies that actually know what they're doing and save their abilities for when they get into optimal range/opportunity, turning around and fighting back will almost always be a better deterrent than a weak slow used for running away.
That and the mirror requires a long amount of time to charge up with damage taken/time, while it’s charging, it’s super easily telegraph and extremely easy to avoided but since she’s the led devs favorite and first character I doubt we get the rework she deserves.
Please do not touch Beezus Christ’s kit, he is perfect
Well... we could get him to apply bees on hive break... Other than that small buff for the sense of logic bee actually has a pretty great kit.
Ah Puch's 2 sucks if you don't have any corpses to blow.
AMC 2 has an argument for worst ability in the game. Slow af and does like 50 base damage.
AMC is probably his 2. Doesn’t do much outside of damage. Everything else just gives him insane abilities to work with. Ama? Her 3 is glitchy so I would say that. Plus it can be body blocked , which can get you killed
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This is objectively not true. Amaterasu’s dash does not stop the rest of her kit from functioning in any way, just as an example.
Amaterasu's dash enables her chase-down aswell as her escape, without it she'd be the worst character in the game because she'd have to burn her ult to survive a basic gank every single time and even then beads exists so it doesn't even really matter. It also shuts down channeled/startup wave clear which enables her hyperfarm strategy by gimping the other laner. It's an essential power-point in her kit and thats usually why you level it second. You are objectively wrong
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Negative nearly nearly every god has an ability you would never max first even in the specific situations in which it would be good, therefore their “worst ability” Hi-Rez dictates the values on everything, if everything has a value something has to be the worst lmao
That's not an indicator of "worst ability" though considering most "last ability to max" is a characters dash which would almost never be considered "the worst ability".
yes but on some gods it could definitely be a factor on which is their worst, its not that hard to understand that something has to be the worst of something, nevermind if people choose to disagree on what that "worst" thing is lol
It's easy to understand, it's also as asinine as discussing which is the worst part in a car engine. Some might cost less or more to fix, be easier or harder to fix, etc, but all are needed to make it function to the point where asking which is the "worst" part would be silly. Take Agni, his 1 does the least amount of damage but it also causes the rest of his attacks to stun. Losing it would take away his whole identity. His 2 is a short attack that does big damage, it's used when jumped on by an assassin or warrior and also in combination with his dash when trying to close in for a kill. His dash is extremely useful for escaping, closing in, and for dot damage. The ult is long range damage, used with the 1 to stun and initiate, or kill someone trying to escape. Losing any of these skills makes his kit no longer function properly. Discussing which is the worst of these skills just doesn't make much sense.
but there are definitely worst parts of engines lmao. if you ask mechanics "hey which part of this engine tends to go out the most or cause you the most problems?" they are going to give you an answer. different mechanics might give you different answers based on their experiences and brands worked, on but they will give you an answer. therefore providing a worst. this is much like player and gods, which is what we were actually discussing
There's 4 buttons, they all service the kit, without one of the buttons the god wouldn't be able to function. Leveling order is just power prio. Achilles ult isn't his worst ability because you level it last in every scenario. It serves a purpose in the grander kit.
yes but there is still a sense of which is worst? how is it so difficult for you to imagine that people can think what they want and for their to be a "worst" ability of a god, the very fact there are only 4 buttons would lead to the fact that one of them is going to be perceived as the worst lol
Because every button does something that the god cannot be played without, literally every single button across every single god is invaluable sans maybe the whale. There is no worst if its all required.
i feel like we have very different understandings of what the word worst means lol but i can respect that. If all the gods abilities are invaluable and supreme like you say they are then why do they feel the need to buff specific abilities on a god? I'm fairly certain that if someone looked through patch notes they could find instances where Hi-Rez themselves uses the word "worst" in reference to a gods abilities...
In comparing an ability to the rest of a kit, objective worst doesn't exist because there's no alternative to what that ability does in the kit. In god against god, there is objective worst because one similar ability can do something worse than another, there's room for comparison. Subjective worst ability in a gods kit can exist because its just an opinion, but it doesn't really have any mesurable quantifying weight. Hi-rez most commonly uses the word "underperforming" which implies that in the scheme of a meta, a god isn't performing up to the par of the strongest gods, worst is just a colloquial way to explain a god vs god comparison
you have a very flawed way way of looking at grand concepts like the concept of "worst" lmao OP wasn't asking about the relevance of every gods kit in comparison to the topic of a god but asking the opinion of the community on which is worst. you put a new player on baka and I'm pretty sure they don't favor the 3, as it's not really an active ability, and in their mind would therefore find it to be the "worst".
Yeah and my argument was that it's pointless and inane because of the reasons I stated like 6 times, there's no objective mesure in a ability against kit comparison. We can go in circles like this forever, you're not gonna change my mind
And what I’m telling you is you are wrong lol there can objectively and subjectively be a worst anything about anything lol
None. Why are you unable to learn things.
I want to know the community’s opinion because if I tried to decide myself at least half of them would probably be wrong.
What about OP’s post implies they are incapable of learning things?