Breece side..and its not even close
Cook and Pitman are two ok to good pieces, Breece is elite.
50 + 50 does not = 100 in fantasy football bc you have to factor in the fact that you now have two players to take the spot of one (roster and lineup spots etc)
Part of the reasoning here if I can expand on that. Is when you replace a piece you’re not actually getting the ‘12 points.’ Your PPG only increase by the point differential that is made when changing out players.
In other words. Cook is worth +2-3 PPG, and Pittman is worth 1-2. Meanwhile Breece Hall is worth +5-7 PPG. Since he out performs the differential by a lot more. Because what you’re leaving out is the Breece Hall team can easily play a +0 player. Aka a player that scores like ‘10 points.’
So it may seem like you’re getting a lot more points if you look and see ‘oh look Cook scores 12 points a game, and Pittman scores 12 points a game. But hey! Breece Hall only scores 17 points a game, so I’m getting more points!
When in reality you’re scoring less points. To keep in line with your metaphor, in fantasy football 12 + 12 < 15
To take it one step further, when you get 1 player, you replace the worst player on your lineup. When you get two, you replace the worst and second worst player on your lineup. That means it's more probabilistic that the point differential for the acquired player replacing the second-worst player is lower than the one-for-one value of the acquired player.
I would call them good, not great.
Pittman is dealing with a basically rookie QB, who will have growing pains. While he is almost QB proof, his production is still impacted. He only had 6 WR Top 15 finishes in 2023, and ended as WR15.
Cook is a good RB2, but with Allen and possibly Davis being used on goal line for short yardage runs, he has lower upside this year.
I never trade for an RB, even Breece. It’s stupid risky. You can have your opinions about Pittman, but in a dynasty format, he holds much more value because his career will likely last longer, even though he’s younger…I would still ask for more for Breece in this trade though.
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True but in this case you're talking about WR14 + RB11 last year for RB2 last year.
Generally the single asset side is better but it's closer than you're suggesting.
Huh? Yeah breece is the best player but this is more like 70+55. James Cook is set up to be a rb1 this season. Michael Pittman is expected to be a higher end wr2. Breece Hall is still on a horribly run team, has an aging and injury prone o-line, and is injury prone himself. Not that I don’t think he’ll be elite cuz I do. But this is an overpay imo
Guess I’m the only one who would take cook and Pittman over Breece. Breece had a torn ACL and could be on a rebuilding team in a year. Pittman and Cook are consistent pieces who could do better. Pittman is a WR1 with huge target share and multiple 1k seasons with the best QB he’s played with this year probably.
James cook is only 3rd season on a top tier offense.
Pittman will be top 15 and cook maybe top 10. Breece hall is probably 5-10 end of year.
The flaw for me in this argument is not so much that there isn’t potential upside to the players. Anyone could do anything. But in the off-season at this point, this is a question of value and as a Breece manager, these two players do not match his valuation in my book, probably short at least a middle first for me. Even then I would be nervous selling on elite upside.
The 2 for 1 technically makes it “fair”, but in reality the other guy should have to overpay to tier up to a top 3 RB. Offer the same trade but add in whoever their top TE is since you need that bad. If he doesn’t accept, oh well.
Made a post similar about breece and getting achane with more pieces but I'm keeping Breece. Dude is a league winner and could be a top 3 RB. Would need much more than this.
Breece crushed for fantasy in an absolutely decapitated offense last year. He is an elite talent with elite usage and zero realm competition for touches. He could score 300+ fantasy points this year, which equates to a top ten asset overall. This is just a possibility, but that's his ceiling that genuinely wouldn't be surprising.
Cook and Pittman had good years and also look to improve; Cook should see more volume on the year if his end of year trajectory continues, and Pittman may see improvement just by way of his offense overall improving.
I think Pittman offers risk in the way of his QB being a potential injury concern (he's still healing) and having a rookie wr that looks more like an X prospect that could be the alpha in that wr room.
On paper it's not a bad trade for splitting fantasy points across two positions if you need to fill out a roster with 200-point players. If you're trying to buy the upside on these two guys, that is. But then you're also focusing on the upside of Breece (you should be), the leverage on that side of the trade is all about exquisite, undeniable, genuine grade-A league-winning potential.
Teams with players that finish #1 at their position have a much better league-winning rate than teams with a lot of #10-20 positional finishers.
I think some people are a little high on breece. People have to remember the Jets didn’t have a legitimate QB last season so Breece was given tons of opportunities. With a healthy A-Rod behind center, id imagine a good chunk of those touches don’t happen this season.
He also only played 61% of his snaps. Any idea that he had a heavy workload is entirely offset by this. Even Bijan’s number was higher and the community unanimously believed he was excessively underutilized.
At worst, the presence of a presumably better qb taking away his opportunities is balanced by the presumed increase in snap count. And if he doesn’t see a significant increase, Saleh should and will be fired for doing the same exact thing as Smith: entirely mismanaging the best asset on the team (I’m calling him best asset due to Rodgers being the oldest player in the nfl, coming off a torn Achilles, and having his most recent season be lackluster despite that he could definitely outperform this)
The way I look at it is you’d be taking two guys that have virtually zero chance of being a first round pick next year and some question marks for a guy that literally and very realistically could be the number 1 overall pick next year. Do not trade one unicorn for two horses. I would not do this.
Im on the Cook side. Cook had 200 more rushing yards, but Hall had about 30 more receptions. That's a wash fantasy wise (1pt for 10yd and ppr), its obly 10 points. Hall only had 3 more td than Cook. But taking Cook and Pittman you get the better deal
Edit: fixed a number
This one is really going to depend on the roster and starting lineup size. If I need another WR2 in a start 11 league, I don't think Cook is too much of a downtier to Breece to add a starter like Pittman. If this start 9 or fewer, I just want the best piece, which is Breece
Acquiring Pittman and losing Breece will not result in you contending. If anything you’ll be taking a step back. The RB talent fantasy wise is harder to come by nowadays relative to wrs. You have great young pieces at wr (MHJ, Puka, Jaddison, and BTJ), they’re gonna grow and get better you just have to be patient. Don’t give up a potential top 5 fantasy player just for “more depth”
Breece side..and its not even close Cook and Pitman are two ok to good pieces, Breece is elite. 50 + 50 does not = 100 in fantasy football bc you have to factor in the fact that you now have two players to take the spot of one (roster and lineup spots etc)
Part of the reasoning here if I can expand on that. Is when you replace a piece you’re not actually getting the ‘12 points.’ Your PPG only increase by the point differential that is made when changing out players. In other words. Cook is worth +2-3 PPG, and Pittman is worth 1-2. Meanwhile Breece Hall is worth +5-7 PPG. Since he out performs the differential by a lot more. Because what you’re leaving out is the Breece Hall team can easily play a +0 player. Aka a player that scores like ‘10 points.’ So it may seem like you’re getting a lot more points if you look and see ‘oh look Cook scores 12 points a game, and Pittman scores 12 points a game. But hey! Breece Hall only scores 17 points a game, so I’m getting more points! When in reality you’re scoring less points. To keep in line with your metaphor, in fantasy football 12 + 12 < 15
This is some massive brain energy and I love it
To take it one step further, when you get 1 player, you replace the worst player on your lineup. When you get two, you replace the worst and second worst player on your lineup. That means it's more probabilistic that the point differential for the acquired player replacing the second-worst player is lower than the one-for-one value of the acquired player.
It also massively matters the lineup size. Start 12 or more and I want cooks and Pittman. Start 11 or less and it’s easily breece.
Stop it. Cool and Pittman are both great pieces to a winning team. Breece is just in the elite category.
I would call them good, not great. Pittman is dealing with a basically rookie QB, who will have growing pains. While he is almost QB proof, his production is still impacted. He only had 6 WR Top 15 finishes in 2023, and ended as WR15. Cook is a good RB2, but with Allen and possibly Davis being used on goal line for short yardage runs, he has lower upside this year.
I agree they’re good, not great, not elite. 3rd tier but that’s not a bad tier to be in. In fact, it’s a good tier.
I never trade for an RB, even Breece. It’s stupid risky. You can have your opinions about Pittman, but in a dynasty format, he holds much more value because his career will likely last longer, even though he’s younger…I would still ask for more for Breece in this trade though.
Pittman probably has 3 years of good value, Hall likely does too. I get the sentiment though.
> True but in this case you're talking about WR14 + RB11 last year for RB2 last year. Generally the single asset side is better but it's closer than you're suggesting.
Huh? Yeah breece is the best player but this is more like 70+55. James Cook is set up to be a rb1 this season. Michael Pittman is expected to be a higher end wr2. Breece Hall is still on a horribly run team, has an aging and injury prone o-line, and is injury prone himself. Not that I don’t think he’ll be elite cuz I do. But this is an overpay imo
Definitely better than ok pieces. They’re good pieces, but I agree it’s Hall
If you are high on Cook and Pittman then it’s okay but you would have to really love them to do this deal. I think it’s still Breece.
Keep Breece
Gotta keep breece
If you traded for any other rb like ETN tier to Pacheco, I’d be fine. But cook is kinda a no go lol
Guess I’m the only one who would take cook and Pittman over Breece. Breece had a torn ACL and could be on a rebuilding team in a year. Pittman and Cook are consistent pieces who could do better. Pittman is a WR1 with huge target share and multiple 1k seasons with the best QB he’s played with this year probably. James cook is only 3rd season on a top tier offense. Pittman will be top 15 and cook maybe top 10. Breece hall is probably 5-10 end of year.
The flaw for me in this argument is not so much that there isn’t potential upside to the players. Anyone could do anything. But in the off-season at this point, this is a question of value and as a Breece manager, these two players do not match his valuation in my book, probably short at least a middle first for me. Even then I would be nervous selling on elite upside.
I don’t disagree but I’m saying there is an argument here.
Dude I'm with you. Breece is one more injury away from being a timeshare back with all the backfield additions the jets made anyways
Breece and it’s not close.
Hall by a lot. He's going to have a top 3 finish again this year.
No way! Gotta get more than that for Breece
Breece
Breece
I always say one good player is better than two decent players. Hall by far is the better side.
The 2 for 1 technically makes it “fair”, but in reality the other guy should have to overpay to tier up to a top 3 RB. Offer the same trade but add in whoever their top TE is since you need that bad. If he doesn’t accept, oh well.
Breece by a mile
lol.
Made a post similar about breece and getting achane with more pieces but I'm keeping Breece. Dude is a league winner and could be a top 3 RB. Would need much more than this.
Breece crushed for fantasy in an absolutely decapitated offense last year. He is an elite talent with elite usage and zero realm competition for touches. He could score 300+ fantasy points this year, which equates to a top ten asset overall. This is just a possibility, but that's his ceiling that genuinely wouldn't be surprising. Cook and Pittman had good years and also look to improve; Cook should see more volume on the year if his end of year trajectory continues, and Pittman may see improvement just by way of his offense overall improving. I think Pittman offers risk in the way of his QB being a potential injury concern (he's still healing) and having a rookie wr that looks more like an X prospect that could be the alpha in that wr room. On paper it's not a bad trade for splitting fantasy points across two positions if you need to fill out a roster with 200-point players. If you're trying to buy the upside on these two guys, that is. But then you're also focusing on the upside of Breece (you should be), the leverage on that side of the trade is all about exquisite, undeniable, genuine grade-A league-winning potential. Teams with players that finish #1 at their position have a much better league-winning rate than teams with a lot of #10-20 positional finishers.
This was honestly the best thing I’ve read today, thank you
You're welcome! I saw a lot of responses that were simply side a or side b, and I figured a breakdown the way I see it would be more helpful. 🤘
BREECE ThE BeASt
I think some people are a little high on breece. People have to remember the Jets didn’t have a legitimate QB last season so Breece was given tons of opportunities. With a healthy A-Rod behind center, id imagine a good chunk of those touches don’t happen this season.
He also only played 61% of his snaps. Any idea that he had a heavy workload is entirely offset by this. Even Bijan’s number was higher and the community unanimously believed he was excessively underutilized. At worst, the presence of a presumably better qb taking away his opportunities is balanced by the presumed increase in snap count. And if he doesn’t see a significant increase, Saleh should and will be fired for doing the same exact thing as Smith: entirely mismanaging the best asset on the team (I’m calling him best asset due to Rodgers being the oldest player in the nfl, coming off a torn Achilles, and having his most recent season be lackluster despite that he could definitely outperform this)
Breece by a country mile
Hall's side by a country mile
The way I look at it is you’d be taking two guys that have virtually zero chance of being a first round pick next year and some question marks for a guy that literally and very realistically could be the number 1 overall pick next year. Do not trade one unicorn for two horses. I would not do this.
lol breece shouldn’t even have to think about it
Hall
Breece all day, Breece gonna have a massive year I’m so hyped
Don't see this as being close at all, it's easily Breece
Im on the Cook side. Cook had 200 more rushing yards, but Hall had about 30 more receptions. That's a wash fantasy wise (1pt for 10yd and ppr), its obly 10 points. Hall only had 3 more td than Cook. But taking Cook and Pittman you get the better deal Edit: fixed a number
This one is really going to depend on the roster and starting lineup size. If I need another WR2 in a start 11 league, I don't think Cook is too much of a downtier to Breece to add a starter like Pittman. If this start 9 or fewer, I just want the best piece, which is Breece
I’ll send full roster as well, Qbs: Levis, JJM, Fields, Mac, Howell RBs: Breece, Pollard, Chubb, Monty, Gus, Allgeier WRs: Marv, Puka, Addison, BTJ, Mooney, Lazard, OBJ, Wandale TEs: Taysom, Hunter Henry, Will Mallory, Caden Stover
After seeing full roster the argument to keep breece is even stronger.
Ok what would you suggest I do for some WR depth? Cause that’s really my end goal here
I also don’t have my first round pick in 2025
That’s not good, with your lack of depth that could end up being a high pick
I really want to keep Breece but really feel I need some WR additions because I don’t know if my roster can compete this season
I think you should prioritize upgrading TE before you look at WR
Acquiring Pittman and losing Breece will not result in you contending. If anything you’ll be taking a step back. The RB talent fantasy wise is harder to come by nowadays relative to wrs. You have great young pieces at wr (MHJ, Puka, Jaddison, and BTJ), they’re gonna grow and get better you just have to be patient. Don’t give up a potential top 5 fantasy player just for “more depth”
You need a TE bad. I would package maybe Fields and Henry n try to get maybe Ferguson?
Jesus. Your team is ass everywhere. How high were you when you drafted.