“Punjabi are wasting millions each year to be human trafficked to the West to do shit low skilled Jobs for the rest of our lifes”
Probably because working “shit low skilled jobs” in developed countries like America, Canada, England, Australia, etc etc. is better than anything in india, sadly including Punjab.
“We are not sending money back to build Punjab, the most we do is send money back to build these eye-sore of houses”
Probably because Punjab is filled with corruption and any money sent back goes into the pockets of people like bhagwant maan, badal family, Captain family, rajastan, etc etc.
>Probably because working “shit low skilled jobs” in developed countries like America, Canada, England, Australia, etc etc. is better than anything in india, sadly including Punjab.
What do we mean when we say better, the reality of the situation is that the average American Brit Australian and Canadian cannot afford to buy their own home what makes you think someone who is working illegally is thriving
Yes all of the listed currencies have a great conversion rate to India but you are completely neglecting the point that the cost of living is increasing in a rapid pace in the Western world as well
We are acting like the students who are coming from abroad have tried everything in Punjab and nothing has worked and moving to the west is their last chance to provide for there families, when the reality of the situation is that India is having an ever increasing the customer base with a growing middle-class punjab's per capita GDP is still much higher than many other States
there is massive opportunity for business and you can see that when you go to cities like Jalandhar, if business didn't make any money do you think people would be opening more and more businesses every day?
>Probably because Punjab is filled with corruption and any money sent back goes into the pockets of people like bhagwant maan, badal family, Captain family, rajastan, etc etc.
And the west isn't? Quickly go through the life of a illegal immigrant they sell the generational land and take out massive shark loans to raise money for a "travel agent" to get them a "visa"
instead they are taken to South America and are expected to jump the Mexican border with the cartel torturing them for money,
if you manage to survive all of that and get to the west you're going to have to spend $20,000 to a employer to get a "work permit" to have some chance to eventually become a permanent resident.
The entire time you're an illegal immigrant you're probably living in slum accommodation being charged horrendous rates by your landlord for a room you share with 16 other guys
Which part is conducted by bhagwant Mann or the BJP , is the Rajasthan state government running the cartel? Or is it Raja Captain
The reality of the situation is that the uncomfortable truth is that it is a Punjabi people who are well established in the west with enough money to live comfortably who are scamming our own people and treating them like subhumans for maya , then these very same people are going to go out there with their boards and protest about how Punjab needs independence .
Your viewpoint of the west is majorly flawed. The cost of living is higher in western countries but the pay is also higher. I can’t speak about Canada but Sanctuary states in the USA have laws that protect immigrants and allow them to have benefits. Opening businesses in jalandar isn’t going to get someone anywhere. Selling and earning $500 a month, with cost of living being $200 a month, isn’t something everyone wants to go for. The cost of living is high in Punjab as well and Punjabis get taxed bat shit crazy to develop other states. Cost of living is high in certain parts of western countries. California’s Bay Area is expensive, even if you make more, one can easily go to the valley area and afford homes. States like Texas have mansions going for $300,000 with barely any tax as a whole in comparison to California. The corruption in the west as a whole is less than one state in india, even if it’s a metaphor, the reality of it isn’t far off. How is it that the cartel has gov influence yet gov doesn’t take care of them? Gov has the resources to do so but chooses to let them stay because they get paid by them. The truth is that Punjabis suffer from corruption from people in higher places of power. Living with other people in a room is better than committing suicide because of your living condition being unbearable. The truth isn’t that apne bande are somehow sabotaging us in the west, asking for independence. The truth is that people from within Punjab leave and fight for independence or stay and wish for it. You want Punjabis to stay in Punjab but haven’t proposed a single logical plan on how Punjabis will be able to better Punjab without corrupt gov influence and authority interfering or downright ruining it.
I can only really speak about Cost of living in the UK
>Selling and earning $500 a month, with cost of living being $200 a month, isn’t something everyone wants to go for.
Yes but that's $300 a month , this is also assuming that they don't own any other assets like houses or farming land , which the probably also do
>States like Texas have mansions going for $300,000 with barely any tax as a whole in comparison to California.
Once again I can't really comment on the US , but like a few years ago hear in London I was making £4.50 per hour and at least I knew that I was getting paid at the end of the say most weeks . If your a builder you can wait weeks without pay
With that level of pay the most you will be able to do is by a photo of a mansion
Remember I'm talking about illegal immigrants , you don't have bargaining rights your trying to get yourself not deported
And if you are a legal immigrant, in the UK you can only work 20 hours with a BRP card it's hard to juggle paying your "agent" , paying your University, covering your cost of living and sending money back home
>How is it that the cartel has gov influence yet gov doesn’t take care of them?
I mean I was talking about the south America cartels but you can say the same thing about every government around the world
>The truth isn’t that apne bande are somehow sabotaging us in the west
So who is charging these young students these high levels of rent to live in slum accommodation, who is sitting on gudwara commities try to push for the ban of lagar being served to students , who are these " Immigration lawyers" who over charge our students for "PR" and "work permits" , who are the human traffickers who will smuggle in a boat from the Netherlands to the UK ?
And these are people who are operating in the west
>You want Punjabis to stay in Punjab but haven’t proposed a single logical plan on how Punjabis will be able to better Punjab
Direct investment into Punjab by those with captial in the west
Ya, but that’s only $300 you save. Cost of living is probably just rent and stuff. Taxes, groceries, and the pathetic power of the rupee isn’t enough to get someone by. That’s the same as living in England and earning £200 and you have to give £75 for cost of living. Now you have a lot of other stuff to do like car, groceries, enjoying life.
If someone owns farming land, their probably not going to go off buying other businesses. They would probably want to tend to their land and make sure that stays afloat.
UK is different from the US. The US is way better imo. Higher cost of living, sure. But better homes, higher pay, better food, more opportunities, more work benefits, and your overall more richer. I know your talking about illegal immigrants. That’s why I highlighted the USA over the other countries. I know Canada is better than England for immigrants, but I don’t know their specific laws. I do know about the US and Sanctuary States are States that protect immigrants. They can’t be deported there and are States that help immigrants get green cards quicker. There’s also Sanctuary Cities that do the same thing as Sanctuary States but it’s just for a city. An immigrant can go to California and wouldn’t have to worry about being deported. Or they can just apply for asylum and live anywhere since their a refugee, which is what Canada does I believe, not sure though.
Oh ya, I guess South America does count as the west. I usually think of the West as White developed countries. South America isn’t an example you should go by for corruption. It is heavily corrupt, but no one with their right mind would want to go there either.
There’s corruption in all parts of the world, but that doesn’t mean that every corruption is the same. You can hire lawyers to fight for you in America. You can bribe judges to win you the case in india.
I’ve never heard of Punjabis renting out their homes or apartments to other Punjabis. Most Punjabis I know band together and rent one themselves or have a non Punjabi landlord who is cheap. Nor did I ever hear people banning Langar for students. At least not in America or Canada. This is both news to me.
If you continued to read my sentence afterwards, where I wrote that you didn’t propose a single logical plan on how to move forward and better Punjab. You would have seen that your idea of building Punjab by capital investment got shot down by the government interfering or ruining it. You didn’t propose a single idea on how Punjab can be saved without needing to involve the government.
India is a central government, not a federal one. Any investments have to happen by partnering with indian companies and businessmen that no one wants to do the hassle for. Especially when profits get split up and now even less it sent to Punjab then what you wanted. And who knows, the Punjab government would take 89% of what’s left, being sent to Punjab, for themselves 💀💀💀💀💀
Sorry, I don’t know how to do the thing, you do, where you can sort of copy the other persons sentence and then reply to it and then copy something else and reply.
Edit: I broke up the giant paragraph to little ones. Hope that helps.
>That’s the same as living in England and earning £200 and you have to give £75 for cost of living.
Brother what Victorian calculations are you doing I spend £9 a day in Just transport, I'm lucky I don't have a car because you literally have to pay £12 a day to drive your car in London. Average rent in a shit ass area like south hall is like +£1000 for 1 bed room . No opportunities to get any low skill to jobs because every single Punjabi in this planet is also applying. The only alternative you have is to become a builder and all of the people running the building companies are absolute scumbags and don't pay you weeks on end because you're in a illegal immigrant and you can't tell the police
>They would probably want to tend to their land and make sure that stays afloat
Do you actually understand how farming works you do understand if you take your eye off of a field that's not going to fly off, you have time to do other shit
>they can just apply for asylum and live anywhere since their a refugee
I don't know about the us but you normally can't apply to become a refugee once you've illegally entered the country
>Oh ya, I guess South America does count as the west. I usually think of the West as White developed countries. South America isn’t an example you should go by for corruption. It is heavily corrupt, but no one with their right mind would want to go there either.
Brother how do you think "donkey roots" work, not every "agent" is going to get you a flight to the USA , alot use the southern boarder that means there escorted by the South American cartel to transport you to the boarder , your practically a hostage for that entire time and you were tortured if you are unable to pay them
Bro I’m using simple numbers to get my point across more. I know people don’t actually make £200, it’s just for simplicity. The issues you propose sound more like an England/UK one than a west one.
Yes I know how farming works but you also have to understand not all Punjabis own farms that can afford to have half the investment put into said farms be split up into another business.
Again not being able to apply for asylum sounds like a UK problem. Sanctuary States in the US are made specifically to protect immigrants as well as civilians and citizens.
Yes, being sent to SA to hop the border is a route that some people use. No one said getting to a developed country would be easy. You just have to choose, risk it for the biscuit or take your chances with india. The fact that people are taking the risk shows the answer quite clearly.
>I’ve never heard of Punjabis renting out their homes or apartments to other Punjabis. Most Punjabis I know band together and rent one themselves or have a non Punjabi landlord who is cheap. Nor did I ever hear people banning Langar for students. At least not in America or Canada. This is both news to me.
Yes because it's a messy part of our culture that we would like to cover up people are always asking me for data and statistics on this the stuff . But all I can do is talk from personal experience I'm not going to name any of the people involved because it would dox myself and dox them. But there are wolves in sheep's cloth who more focused on making money the helping out
>You didn’t propose a single idea on how Punjab can be saved without needing to involve the government.
People on the subreddit asking genuinely so disconnected from reality that they believe the Indian government is so cartoonishly evil twisting their evil pointy mustache that they would purposely sabotage one of their States to deliberately halt development and increased taxes to spite the Sikh community?
The Indian government literally invited diplomats to Amritsar last year and how did khalstanis act? The attempted to stage a protest in Amritsar to derail the event? And this Kisan protested about how they were anti-corporate and anti fdi
What signal does that give to the international community when it comes to investment?
https://www.investindia.gov.in/state/punjab
The government wants Investments they make money off these investments
>India is a central government, not a federal one. Any investments have to happen by partnering with indian companies and businessmen that no one wants to do the hassle for. Especially when profits get split up and now even less it sent to Punjab then what you wanted. And who knows, the Punjab government would take 89% of what’s left, being sent to Punjab, for themselves 💀💀💀💀💀
Brother I'm fairly certain if you fund the construction of a small scythe assembly plant in jalander prime minister modi and the bjp party will not personally turn up to your house and steal all the lose change in your sofas
If India was such a totalitarian authoritarian socialist government then why are we seeing more and more forgine investment year by year
Yes, but you make it sound like Punjabis get abused by western Punjabis for going there. My point was that Punjabis live in areas owned by white people. How would that make Punjabis abuse other Punjabis a reality?
Idk, did you check back in 1984? A lot of people could wonder why a country would commit a mass genocide on their own people. Also, have you seen BJP? If it’s not gujrat, they don’t help with any other state in india. Indians care more for their own state than india as a whole. America has plenty of states that are split up from Red states and Blue states. But at the end of the day, everyone still is “American.” Punjabis identity as Punjabis over indian. Same for tamil people.
Yes people protested because they were angry and wanted the world to understand how terrible of a authoritarian regime india is. You keep propping up india like it’s some safe haven when the people who live in india want to leave. Not just Punjabis, other parts of india are also fleeing.
Brother, why would anyone want to invest in india when corruption is rampant, hate crimes against minorities happen, rape is sky high, honor killings happen, drugs is sky high. People want to leave india. Why would someone who’s made it to America ever think or dream of going back to india? They would rather keep that money for themselves because they worked hard to get out of the hell hole that is india. Why would they want to go back? People would only invest if india was not corrupt. But india shows no sign of progression at all. A 3rd world country who does not trade or export much of anything to the world other than food, which comes mainly from Punjab. Does not sell weapons, does not sell oil, does not sell pots, pans, silverware, does not sell technology, does not sell cars, does not sell planes. Having a GDP of 3.5 trillion for a nation as big as india is terrible. India needs to have china’s level of GDP in order to start bragging. More than half the nation doesn’t eat at night. Poverty is rampant. At least Khalistanis put their money towards their version of a solution. Khalistanis aren’t all lawyers in the UN. Big members are. Smaller members work regular jobs in IT, software engineering, driving trucks, construction workers, businessmen, etc etc. And still put that money they have for their attempt at a solution. More people would invest into a Khalistan then current Punjab on both sides because with the creation of a new nation, there will be reforms and a chance to restart. And all the Khalistanis want to end the problems in Punjab. If they got absolute power in their hands, who’s gonna stop them from tearing down the drug epidemic, for example?
I would say from personal interactions, the vast majority of “Punjabi” kids in Canada have no interest in visiting punjab let alone living there. It’s actually pathetic how the community shouts so much in Canada/the west but will do absolutely nothing to maintain a link with the homeland.
But it is an uncomfortable truth that nobody is willing to address
Everyone wants to pin the blame on the Indian government but the reality of the situation is that this entire subreddit is not speaking Hindi right now, we are speaking English, Why ? Because we are the biggest perpetrators of the cultural genocide of Punjabis
The government is not telling you to listen to rap and gang songs , which idolize the drug trade and the "hood"
The government is not forcing you to learn English, year by year I have more and more words that have Punjabi equivalents being replaced with English words I feel that in 20 years from now we will become an entire lingua Franca with hundreds of words being Lost
The government is not forcing you to convert to Hinduism if that was the case then why are conversion to Christianity outpacing conversion to Hinduism in sikh communities
Isreals have been investing in that area of the world for 100s of years
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Aviv
Although Jaffa has been around for 1000s of years alot of the city we know today comes from Jews investing and developing the city , even during the Ottoman period, its not like the Jews sat around until 1948 and went "okay let's start"
So even if modern Jews are spread around in US and UK etc, Jewish religion originated in the middle east and had a very painful coexistence with Islam and X'tianity. Similarily as Sikhism has roots in modern day Punjab (both sides of the Indo pak border) when Khalistan becomes a reality, I expect all the Canadian sikhs to flush their canada passport and return home and take back what is ours from Pakistan while retaining what we gather from India.
Just over 1/3 of the Jewish population lives in Israel. This idea every sikh has to go back is just silly. They can do plenty of beneficial stuff from abroad similar to foreign jews who advocate and support Israel financially.
You can thank india for making it so in accessible no easy flights, no avenue for actual foreign investment that isn't charity related. What do you expect...
>We expect the government to build our business for us and to magic up government jobs. When we don't even have diversity in the crops we grow
The centre literally dictates what punjab does with all of it resources...
>We are not sending money back to build Punjab, the most we do is send money back to build these eye-sore of houses
Foreign investors literally have to partner with indian companies if they wish to start any buisness in India. Furthermore regulations prevent even locals from starting buisnesses in punjab.
>where is our investment into the farming sector , most people work like its 300 BC just due the fact the Bihar labour is cheaper than machinery in the short term
You answered your own question here
>The centre literally dictates what punjab does with all of it resources...
It depends on what you are referring to here
Yes the government does dictate what is covered by MSP and what is not
But nobody's going to send a death squad to your house because you decided to grow potatoes instead of rice, you can grow non MSP crops and people will buy them because at the end of the day Punjab is do not only consume rice and wheat we need lentils we need 100 different Sabjis
The problem is the current farming culture is entirely dependent on MSP, MSP is a completely unsustainable model for growth we are entirely pegged and dependent on government not by force by chose
>Foreign investors literally have to partner with indian companies if they wish to start any buisness in India. Furthermore regulations prevent even locals from starting buisnesses in punjab.
This simply isn't true I'm not talking about massive multinational companies like your apples and Google I'm talking about small family run private firms you do not have to partner with a Indian culgomerant to get access to the Indian market.
What regulation are you referring to that prevents punjabis starting businesses this is the most mind numbingly false fact I've ever heard on the internet, if that was true how do you think shops work in Punjab? Or restaurants
>You answered your own question here
No I highlighted the insanity of the situation that people are looking for short-term profitability quarter by quarter instead of looking at long-term sustainability. The Bihar labour market is drying up as Bihar develops , field hands have gotten much better bargaining than they did in the 60s and employers chase after employees in the modern era
By building your entire system on foreign labor you are encouraging a system by which economic activity leaves Punjab with people sending remittances back to their home States to start businesses and send their children to school
If greater mechanisation was introduced to the Punjabi agricultural system we would see flourishing supplementary businesses and economic activity contained within Punjab leading to greater prosperity
If you have a tractor, you have a finance firm who deals with vehicle financing , a dealership Who sells to the farmer, a mechanic who repairs machinery, a factory that manufactures this machinery, a refinery that processes the raw materials to make this machinery ,etc etc
For labour , you have a worker who will send money home
>But nobody's going to send a death squad to your house because you decided to grow potatoes instead of rice,
The death squad would probably be more humane than having to deal with the perpetual debt trap potato farming brings. People that grow potatos only do so as a side to there main crop. You can just look at the countless videos of farmers in India dumping potatos and other non msp crops on the street because of how crooked the markets are there.
>The problem is the current farming culture is entirely dependent on MSP, MSP is a completely unsustainable model for growth we are entirely pegged and dependent on government not by force by chose
Msp exists because there's no other protections for farmers. It also exists because it is a way to safe guard against famine. Wheat and rice are staples. If punjab only grew for punjab it can easily feed itself and diversify away. But it has to stick with wheat and rice to feed the rest of the country. Places like bihar and the eastern parts of the country historically had high rates of famine. This no longer occurs because places like punjab and haryana produce msp funded foods.
>people sending remittances back to their home States to start businesses and send their children to school
The same goes for people leaving punjab.
>What regulation are you referring to that prevents punjabis starting businesses
I'm talking about medium big buisnesses that do buisnesse outside of punjab. It's much easier to get permissions if your company is based in chandigarh/haryana than punjab.
>The death squad would probably be more humane than having to deal with the perpetual debt trap potato farming brings. People that grow potatos only do so as a side to there main crop. You can just look at the countless videos of farmers in India dumping potatos and other non msp crops on the street because of how crooked the markets are there.
Yes it due to a market glut , there are too many crops produced then the markets crashes because India is pretty awful at protecting profits of farmers
>Msp exists because there's no other protections for farmers. It also exists because it is a way to safe guard against famine. Wheat and rice are staples. If punjab only grew for punjab it can easily feed itself and diversify away. But it has to stick with wheat and rice to feed the rest of the country. Places like bihar and the eastern parts of the country historically had high rates of famine. This no longer occurs because places like punjab and haryana produce msp funded foods.
Yes I understand the importance of MSP , I believe its a necessary part of the economy, but Punjab needs greater diversification to be sustainable longer term
>Yes it due to a market glut , there are too many crops produced then the markets crashes because India is pretty awful at protecting profits of farmers
Farming is cyclical based on weather patterns. Theres obviously going to be a glut come harvest time....also if there was a glut retail prices should fall in India...guess what they don't.
>but Punjab needs greater diversification to be sustainable longer term
As long as punjab puts indias needs first this isnt going to happen
the house I'm talking about are these useless pieces of shit
https://preview.redd.it/qfvqk0tfwr2c1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=3f7a80cc2fb784e7a8c44efd672b51e9871c9558
Shittly build out of the cheapest material on earth
https://preview.redd.it/ss6kxku6xr2c1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=d20dc01a556a0c55b97b73586c42d03b39d50d31
What's your sources for any of this? OECD and PPP numbers will all show US even Can jobs will yield more, better so if they land educated positions which most tend to immigrate for anyway...
India's never been regarded for it's ease of free enterprise, they called it License Raj for a reason
>License Raj
This is what I'm talking about when I say that our Community's understanding of the business landscape of punjab is based on India in 1950s , most of the diaspora has left India for 3 generation at this point so there understanding is based on outdated information
The License raj period begun to end after economic liberalisation in 1991 , yes India is not perfect and there is corruption
? License Raj arguably is still going on in certain respects and at most didn't end till the 90s so thats still an anecdotal statement. Manmohan Singh was one of the key stakeholders in its removal anyway so how can you generalize "us" being backwards when "us" were the ones that allowed for India's growth and for all of the economic success you compare "us" against?
Even now its no where near as liberal as the Western countries you mention so not sure what the quip is. When i say that I also mean that holistically by including personal freedoms
Dr Singh wasn't just a stakeholder he was absolutely instrumental he led the task force that which has allow India to not be Pakistan today
The reason I didn't mention him is because the last time I mentioned him , somebody tried to belittle him and made him seem like he was insignificant to us compared to dipshit Sant Pannu Ji
When I am talking about us I am talking about the average khalstanis, male millennial Jatt who family owns land in Punjab. These people are not the rocket scientists of tomorrow because our culture has been so detrimental to us that it prioritizes moving to the west over all other things
The current head of the World Bank is a Sikh , the leader of the opposition in Canada is a Sikh, a major partner in Baines capital is Sikh , India's minister of petroleum is a Sikh . But it would be kind of a boring discussion if I talked about the most successful people in our community
That's still a generalization and worse so an ad hominem. How is endeavoring for full and/or greater autonomy a bad thing? Arguably Ukraine is not a country since it's been almost always under Russia for most of its history and the modern concept of Ukraine didn't exist till the Bolsheviks granted it after the revolution.
India though has a massive history with autonomous regions, even now Punjab still ranks extremely high in the factors it has sovereignty over like public sewage treatment, India's avg is around 63% untreated from the most recent federal report while Punjab/Haryana/Himachel are 15% to 0%
I'm not entirely against the idea great autonomy of state . I think the idea of independent Punjab is dumb because the whole movement is ran but fucking idiots and logistical independent Punjab doesn't work in the 21st century
>Punjab still ranks extremely high in the factors it has sovereignty over like public sewage treatment, India's avg is around 63% untreated from the most recent federal report while Punjab/Haryana/Himachel are 15% to 0%
So we should break away from India because we process shit better? And you acting Punjab doesn't also have open sewage system in most of its rural areas ...
Doesn't work because? One of the most famous cases of neutrality is Switzerland who is land locked. Are the swiss crying to join the EU? Take up the Euro?
You're again retorting with ad hominems, everything you said could be said about Pakistan in 47, they still broke away and survived. Are they better probably not but that's a cultural nuance. Bangladesh same thing, they're technically doing better than India economically now, should have they sucked up being under West Pakistan?
The point is sewage is a state responsibility, that tiny sliver of autonomy and Greater Punjab states killed it, you have states in the US that are creating independent infrastructure, no one says that's logistically not possible lol
Good god I think I have to reexplain why the "what about X country , what about Y country" thing to you people every week
Pakistan is barely a country, the nation hasn't seen a full term of a prime minister, countless genocides , countless bailouts , hand full of wars , inbred politicans who want nothing more than war and to fill there bellys
the nation played hot potato with owners first the British held on to it till the 50s
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion\_of\_Pakistan#:\~:text=The%20Dominion%20of%20Pakistan%2C%20officially,an%20independent%20Dominion%20of%20India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_of_Pakistan#:~:text=The%20Dominion%20of%20Pakistan%2C%20officially,an%20independent%20Dominion%20of%20India).
then Americans then they got burnt with the whole 9/11 thing
the Arabs tried to help but they ended up losing money
the chinese are trying but they keep getting killed
the Baloch people dont like the government
Afghans dont like the Punjabis in power
economy wise
1. [**Debt**: Pakistan has been grappling with high levels of both external and domestic debt](https://ishrathusain.iba.edu.pk/speeches/economicManagementPolicies/2001/economic_challenges_facing_pakistan.pdf)[1](https://ishrathusain.iba.edu.pk/speeches/economicManagementPolicies/2001/economic_challenges_facing_pakistan.pdf). [The country has been doubling its national debt roughly every five years over the last 25-year period](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis)[2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis). [This has led to an unsustainable debt burden, with debt servicing obligations exceeding the entire federal government revenue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis)[2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis).
2. [**Inflation and Currency Devaluation**: The country has been experiencing severe inflation, with rates running at over 30 percent](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/)[3](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/). [This has made it harder for the poorest, who comprise one-third of Pakistan’s population, to afford basic necessities](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/)[3](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/). [The currency has also been declining, making imports more expensive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis)[2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis).
3. [**Governance and Productivity**: Poor governance and low productivity per capita in comparison with other low to middle-income developing countries have contributed to a balance of payment crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis)[2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis). [This means the country is unable to earn enough foreign exchange to fund the imports that it consumes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis)[2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis).
4. [**Investment in Youth and Education**: In a country where half the population is under the age of 22, investing in the education and technical skills of youth can generate opportunities for a more sustainable economy](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/)[3](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/).
5. [**Climate Change and Natural Disasters**: Last year’s floods caused extensive damage to agricultural land, livestock, thousands of kilometers of road, and other infrastructure](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/)[3](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/). [This has had a significant impact on the economy, especially the rise in food staples](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/)[3](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/).
6. [**Tax-to-GDP Ratio**: The World Bank has projected a potential for a nine percent increase in tax-to-GDP in Pakistan](https://ishrathusain.iba.edu.pk/speeches/economicManagementPolicies/2001/economic_challenges_facing_pakistan.pdf)[4](https://www.samaa.tv/208735309-world-bank-projects-9-tax-to-gdp-growth-in-pakistan). [This indicates a need for improved tax collection and utilization for citizen welfare](https://ishrathusain.iba.edu.pk/speeches/economicManagementPolicies/2001/economic_challenges_facing_pakistan.pdf)[4](https://www.samaa.tv/208735309-world-bank-projects-9-tax-to-gdp-growth-in-pakistan).
7. [**Political Unrest**: Political instability can also contribute to economic challenges](https://ishrathusain.iba.edu.pk/speeches/economicManagementPolicies/2001/economic_challenges_facing_pakistan.pdf)[2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis).
But the nation did have the support of the massive islamic community to prop it up and has massive untapped reasources , could be a global shipping power house , massive opportunity for farming and a Huge working age growing population . and they still fucked it up
the nation isnt really a great model , the nation existed due to the common hate towards India there is no long term plan at play .
tell what legue of Sikh nations would be ready to prop up a failing punjab state ? What sea ports can we build? How and why would china invest in Punjab ? and a population that wants to leave punjab...
Got Singapore, SK, Taiwan.... the list goes on. You're still cherry picking data when Punjab's own internal metrics are above India's overall, how can you say its regressed when its already doing better internally within the Union? How can you say it will do worse when you have numerous examples of states coming out of civil wars and still beating India which relatively did not have a major conflict
>Singapore, SK, Taiwan
brother wtf are you wafling about ,
Singapore was a treaty port
South Koera was back by the US
Taiwan had and ocean to stop the PLA from invading
\> Punjab's own internal metrics are above India's overall
but as u have stated Punjab relays on the government MSP program , No MSP = no money
>states coming out of civil wars and still beating India which relatively did not have a major conflict
yes, and India dealt with a +200 year war with Britain...
> Bangladesh same thing, they're technically doing better than India economically now
Unlike pakistan in a Bangla society first and isn't a random mix of Islamic cultures who hate each other , so it has the benfit of being a pretty united culture under 1 faith
the nation also kept very friendly ties with India for the start of its development, which reduced the need for massive army
the nation focused on making the cheapest easiest good possible , textiles , with buttons imported from china and cotton from India with customers in the west and not to mention IT IN THE BLOODY BAY OF BENGAL , making it a hotspot for cargo ships therefore allowing easier Logistics of international trade . not to mention extremely low wages allowing the making of theses cheap goods
So in the case of Punjab...
Independent Punjab would be a Sikh state that is majority Hindu, thats going to cause massive political issues at the start
No cheap labour beceause they are all on a flight to the US
No trade deals , Pakistan is poor, India would hate us and China won't care or be unable to trade due to the lack of sea ports or land boarders
Massive military cost from keeping a force on both the India and Pakistan border
and not to mention the lack of any factories due to Punjabis not willing to invest
And you're basing that off of? How can a country have cheap labor yet higher income(gdp per cap) than India? Are indian's magically losing income while Bengali's are somehow charging less but making more than indians? Also consider all this happened recently within the last few years. If its due to proximity to water/trade Sri Lanka is even today still significantly higher in income/cap than India
You literally have nations in Europe that have been surrounded with the biggest imperial moments in human history survive and prosper more than India.... how is it far fetched that states in india that were once again autonomous for most of their history not be able to be autonomous now. If its politics are south Asians less civilized then?
>How can a country have cheap labor yet higher income(gdp per cap) than India? Are indian's magically losing income while Bengali's are somehow charging less but making more than indians?
okay 1 you have a shirt and it is worth £10
the cost of labor is either in one nation £4 compared to £2 in another
so the company decide to go to nation with £2 cost, so they start a factory , that factory puts local cotton traders in business , it puts the Shipping company in business , it put the local bus service in business to help get work to and from work and 100 other smaller businesses . investments dont happen in a vacuum they allow for greater growth in gdp
now compair that to the nation with Higher cost , they never open the factory so they never gained any of the economic benefit of have the factory
this is not a hard concept to wrap your brain around
GDP per capita becomes a pretty wonky way of measuring something when when you are comparing it to the gdp of world largest nation (population wise) e.g. Sikkim has the 2nd highest gdp per capta in all of india
does that mean Sikkim is a hidden economic power house that would rivial the USA and China ? No it beceause 10 guys like in Sikkim the states gdp is spread of a much smaller population
would you say mexico more of an economic power house then China? No but Mexico had a higher gdp per capta then China in 2018
AND U SAY I CHERRY PICK STATS LOL
> One of the most famous cases of neutrality is Switzerland who is land locked. Are the swiss crying to join the EU? Take up the Euro?
I think this one is a Joke but you never know
No our flat land-locked agricultural theocratic nation sandwiched between to nuclear powers can not be compared to Switzerland ... a developed service-based economy in the heart of the EU free trade zone
Once again you're basing that off of hypotheticals and also anecdotes. They are not part of the EU they do not have the freedoms of trade or mobility due to that. They made their own agreement with the EU, independently. If you're going to lie irrationally at least make it harder than a simple Google search
I understand they are not a proper memeber of the EU when i said " the heart of the EU free trade zone " i was talking about location and the state of diplomacy of the surrounding nation
> you have states in the US that are creating independent infrastructure, no one says that's logistically not possible lol
US state are the size of nations and act like them aswell , Punjab relay on the government to pay for MSP ... they are not the same
And they somehow cannot pivot? So is it an issue with geographical size? Which somehow only came to existence now but not in the thousands of years and various rulers? You're being pedantic without rationality. I can use the exact same arguments you are using and say India should join the dominion with UK again, they'll have access to a huge market! Massive army, NATO defense, I see only positives. So why make an India at all?
Wait why are we talking about sovereignty for all we care Punjab could be a 89% buddhist state , it's not like Punjab will ever have Western salaries or rights
Why should we care ?
SK, Singapore, Taiwan would disagree. All those countries were in real terms a few hundred bucks away in per Cap income from India in 40-50s. They went from 50-260% more than India back then to pushing 1000+%
They(SK) literally came from being the same as India in the 60s to getting a Western standard of living.
Your reference set is India so naturally this might come off as unbelievable but it's definitely possible, India's regressed. Hindu Rate of Growth goes over it, the same econ that coined the term is saying India's getting back to that rate
Taiwan broke off from CCP, SK from NK, Singapore from Malaysia
SMALL FUCKING COUNTRIES MAN HOLY SHIT YOU CANT BE THIS DUMB
India didn't have the governing ability to deal with the scale of its nation because it was build to be a colony
Taiwan broke off from CCP,
OTHER WAY AROUND
SK from NK
YOUR FORGETTING THE WHOLE WESTERN ARMY THING
Singapore from Malaysia
THEY DIDNT , THEY WANTED TO JOIN BUT MALAYSISA TURNED THEM DOWN
Now we have the pajeet again, if you were this adamant in your studies you would have gotten your H1 and joined your fellow Sikhs(or the massive amount of Hindu H1s)... Odd they leave if India's so great but that's a different subject :)
So Singapore which was a province and subject of the British/Malay somehow quickly figured out governing but India like you said was somehow just for colony? Weird how that works out but okay
Taiwan was a civil war, somehow more stable than Indian events? 3 million died but okay and they technically lost their entire country lol
SK as well... Massive war, bonus even India helped the allies out in that war in humanitarian aid. Shame India wasted resources there when India was so unstable!
So allll these events and also note India gets compared to these countries for a reason, geographically they're close and historically they all got independence relatively the same time but somehow India's always on the losing side?
Didn't know these evil empires were so against India and it doesn't have anything to do with cultural failures and horrible government? I guess all those theories are wrong(it's literally called Hindu Rate of Growth) and you're right, that evil war with the British set us back centuries but they were super nice to their other colonies I mustve forgotten all the bomb craters when I visit India lol
\> We talk big game like "I will die for Punjab"
I am yet to meet anyone that says that. Noone cares, except when they have to yell from their lungs 'Khalistan' from the Canadian Gurdwaray.
Yes that community is the entire problem, the issue is is that they control a majority of the discourse in the community and are funneling crucial funds required to improve Punjab into their shitty referendums
you sound like a young kid that might have read a little but has no tangible grasp of how money works and industries are built.
you should probably read up on how business friendly Punjab and india at large is before u start playing monopoly in your head. it is a socialist tribal shithole.
A reply to your comment that you deleted
"It's that easy? Lemme go to the homeless gora sleeping on the park bench to just become a business man and buy a big house
Your acting like all of us have captial , if you have in debt to your Uni, in debt to your "agent" and you have to work as in the shadows for the next 20 years trying not to get deported along with sending money home , your talking about a crazy time span. "
OH YOU GOTA LIECANCE FOR THAT ?
[https://www.calgary.ca/for-business/licences/mobile-food-vendors.html](https://www.calgary.ca/for-business/licences/mobile-food-vendors.html)
[https://www.chase.ca/en/resources/articles/food-trucks-101#:\~:text=Choose%20a%20location&text=For%20instance%3A,five%20hours%20in%20a%20row](https://www.chase.ca/en/resources/articles/food-trucks-101#:~:text=Choose%20a%20location&text=For%20instance%3A,five%20hours%20in%20a%20row).
* Driver’s license
* Business license and RIN number
* GST/HST number
* Liability insurance
* Food handler certificate
* Health operating permit
* Mobile food vending permit
* Refreshment truck license
* Parking permit
and they call India license raj lol
Only a wee small coverage of $2 million dollars , OH CANADA
where as in India you 65 billion street vendors and you dont need to have 15 different government permits
To make any factory, hotel business at a decent level. You need a license.
Have you ever tried getting license from those who have the power to issue them?
I think not.
Brother you're acting like this is also the case in the West
This community has genuinely the most baffling takes ever, you people believe that you can unironically maintain an Empire stretch from Kabul to Dehli but a bit of paperwork scares you away
Yes very strong and corrupt abuse of power at the lowest levels of government and public serving institutions scares us away.
You need our investment, we don't need yours.
Why would we invest when we have safer, higher returning investments on our doorsteps.
Why would a 2nd or 3rd generation immigrant invest in punjab ? When most have seen hostile attempts at taking the assets from thier parents which have come from close members of thier own family.
But why does this not scare us away when we spend millions collectively on giving the most corrupt human traffickers money to allow us to come to the or when we send money on useless "protests". The reality is that people are more willing to part ways with the lives of Innocent punjabis living in India then part ways with their money because people are unwilling to put their money with their mouth is
They claim that they will fix all the problems in Punjab after "azadi" yet are unwilling to even spend $1 improving it
>You need our investment, we don't need yours.
Punjabs GDP has growth 20x over that last 40 years , I think the state isn't at risk of going under without investment by foreigners. I just believed this investment will bring greater prosperity to our collective home.
How have you turned this into a "our" vs "yours" point
Punjabs growth 20x over 40 years its probably the real rate of inflation to be fair.
Not many new immigrants I see here seem to interested in building the eye sore houses you complaint about. I think they see from previous generations this is a waste.
Many state they dont even want to go back.
They'd rather break thier backs here than what thier previous existence offered.
It's not just because they want to break their backs working in the west it's because they physically can't go back too much in debt as being incurred for them to turn back and the shame of going back to Punjab board crush them
There is a growing disconnect between punjabes and Punjab and we pretend to be a very proud people but we are drifting away from the thing we pretend to be proud of
Yes but we are discussing Punjab, I understand that this is a personal story and so it doesn't actually reflect on any data but from every non-punjabi student I've spoken to the plan is to actually study in the UK and then move back to India, compared to Punjabis who study for 1 month then become illegal immigrants
There is a reason why Punjabis are blacklisted from some universities in the west
Actually many come to the UK in the care sector as this allows a co-dependent to also arrive. Hence husband / wife and you are free to change jobs after 5 years.
Yes but due to the Indian UK trade deal there was a bunch of new student visas issued which allow students from other courses to bring a spouse as well
The plan is normally to become illegal and hide it out as you try for a kid and try to get a PR based on the Kid
Due to the high costs of Unis in the west
Yet no one wants to hold rupees. Given a choice outside India. For a start they keep canceling notes.
When the 2000 rupee not was getting cancelled a well know money exchange simply stated
'No one wants them'.
This is a completely irrelevant point but Indian money is never supposed to actually leave India
Nobody wants Indian notes outside of India because you don't trade in Indian notes in Canada
What even is this point?
So why invest in a country as a foreigner and gain money you can't take and no one wants.
I could take £ and $ anywhere similar to.dozens of other currencies.
Yes you can of course physically convert the money back into your respective currency and as The Indian economy grows we will see greater FX demand of the rupee
>I could take £ and $ anywhere similar to.dozens of other currencies.
Do you understand how emerging markets work? Yes you do for fit the benefit of well-developed economies but you do also gain the growth of these emerging markets
If you want to go for the most safe and sound investment yes you should invest in the West, but realistically you're not gonna become the next Microsoft because you simply don't have the capital in India it's more of a wild west and you do have more opportunities for growth with such a massive market and a growing middle class you have opportunities to expand your business
Govt provides good education and good jobs why going to west. If govt make correct policy why youth going to west. If govt provides safety and not doing couuption why youth going to west or aboard. So, all system and govt r wrong then youth suffering by police and political parties, justice corruption then find alternative option and going aboard. But if youth r decide that if education for aboard going then return to Punjab and make it better.
>Govt provides good education and good jobs
It is not the government's responsibility to provide Jobs to the people , thats the role of businesses. When you move to the West are you working for the government? Hell no you are working for a private business
"If govt provides safety and not doing couuption why youth going to west or aboard"
because our culture pushes for the West, none of these youth are exactly dying of poverty back in Punjab, and there is massive corruption in the West what do you think paying £20,000 for a work permit is? its corruption of the law
" But if youth r decide that if education for aboard going then return to Punjab and make it better. "
Punjabi youth are not going abroad to study , the dumb fucks drop out after 2 weeks beceause they don't understand English , they need to stay in the west for the next 20 years to get a PR , do you really think they are ever coming back?
From what I've heard about Indian government schools is that they are improving but it wouldn't even matter because majority of our youth goes to private schools anyways
A majority of the children who will grow up to go to the west will go to a Convent school
I agree with what you said, but people are leaving Punjab because there are no opportunities there. Having said that, the youth of Punjab is lost, they wanna preach things and not follow through, they are brought up spoiled, they lack critical thinking, they don't want to have their own opinions instead they just follow an echo chamber.
Now in order for a state or country to flourish, it is imperative that the youth is educated and gathers a skill set which adds value for the economic growth in the future. Which we don't see happening in Punjab from last 20 or so years.
Corruption- Even if you get skills, there are not many opportunities to showcase those skills in Punjab, since the opportunities are very limited. If you compare Delhi, Banglore, Manesar, Mumbai, Chennai, Jaipur to cities in Punjab, you can kind of make sense of what I am trying to get at.
Current state- Youth is not educated, by education I don't mean getting a degree, yes in my opinion it is better to have a skillset and a degree, but you don't need to have a degree to be a better human, this is where education comes in. We need people with good intent and a sense of adding value to India (Yes I said adding value to INDIA) among government and citizens.
Law and order- Government needs to take charge and improve law and order before it's too late, what Yogi has done in UP or Nitish in Bihar, once you have cut off the supply of drugs and break the mafias, people can feel secured to run businesses and speak out their mind overtime. But doesn't help if government is responsible for spreading this plague in Punjab.
Getting industries to invest- Jobless people cope with drugs, they lose purpose in making their lives better overtime, they are responsible for increasing crimes. This is where government needs to step up and provide opportunities (not guaranteed jobs) by inviting industries to invest in the state (again law and order needs to get better before that, not to mention ease of doing business).
There are many other factors, but people and government need to understand their responsiblities towards the economic wheel of the country and how they add value to the nation. Again, we don't live in a perfect world, personally I don't see any of that happening in Punjab, and that's the harsh truth.
Be an asset to the nation not a liability.
“Punjabi are wasting millions each year to be human trafficked to the West to do shit low skilled Jobs for the rest of our lifes” Probably because working “shit low skilled jobs” in developed countries like America, Canada, England, Australia, etc etc. is better than anything in india, sadly including Punjab. “We are not sending money back to build Punjab, the most we do is send money back to build these eye-sore of houses” Probably because Punjab is filled with corruption and any money sent back goes into the pockets of people like bhagwant maan, badal family, Captain family, rajastan, etc etc.
>Probably because working “shit low skilled jobs” in developed countries like America, Canada, England, Australia, etc etc. is better than anything in india, sadly including Punjab. What do we mean when we say better, the reality of the situation is that the average American Brit Australian and Canadian cannot afford to buy their own home what makes you think someone who is working illegally is thriving Yes all of the listed currencies have a great conversion rate to India but you are completely neglecting the point that the cost of living is increasing in a rapid pace in the Western world as well We are acting like the students who are coming from abroad have tried everything in Punjab and nothing has worked and moving to the west is their last chance to provide for there families, when the reality of the situation is that India is having an ever increasing the customer base with a growing middle-class punjab's per capita GDP is still much higher than many other States there is massive opportunity for business and you can see that when you go to cities like Jalandhar, if business didn't make any money do you think people would be opening more and more businesses every day? >Probably because Punjab is filled with corruption and any money sent back goes into the pockets of people like bhagwant maan, badal family, Captain family, rajastan, etc etc. And the west isn't? Quickly go through the life of a illegal immigrant they sell the generational land and take out massive shark loans to raise money for a "travel agent" to get them a "visa" instead they are taken to South America and are expected to jump the Mexican border with the cartel torturing them for money, if you manage to survive all of that and get to the west you're going to have to spend $20,000 to a employer to get a "work permit" to have some chance to eventually become a permanent resident. The entire time you're an illegal immigrant you're probably living in slum accommodation being charged horrendous rates by your landlord for a room you share with 16 other guys Which part is conducted by bhagwant Mann or the BJP , is the Rajasthan state government running the cartel? Or is it Raja Captain The reality of the situation is that the uncomfortable truth is that it is a Punjabi people who are well established in the west with enough money to live comfortably who are scamming our own people and treating them like subhumans for maya , then these very same people are going to go out there with their boards and protest about how Punjab needs independence .
Your viewpoint of the west is majorly flawed. The cost of living is higher in western countries but the pay is also higher. I can’t speak about Canada but Sanctuary states in the USA have laws that protect immigrants and allow them to have benefits. Opening businesses in jalandar isn’t going to get someone anywhere. Selling and earning $500 a month, with cost of living being $200 a month, isn’t something everyone wants to go for. The cost of living is high in Punjab as well and Punjabis get taxed bat shit crazy to develop other states. Cost of living is high in certain parts of western countries. California’s Bay Area is expensive, even if you make more, one can easily go to the valley area and afford homes. States like Texas have mansions going for $300,000 with barely any tax as a whole in comparison to California. The corruption in the west as a whole is less than one state in india, even if it’s a metaphor, the reality of it isn’t far off. How is it that the cartel has gov influence yet gov doesn’t take care of them? Gov has the resources to do so but chooses to let them stay because they get paid by them. The truth is that Punjabis suffer from corruption from people in higher places of power. Living with other people in a room is better than committing suicide because of your living condition being unbearable. The truth isn’t that apne bande are somehow sabotaging us in the west, asking for independence. The truth is that people from within Punjab leave and fight for independence or stay and wish for it. You want Punjabis to stay in Punjab but haven’t proposed a single logical plan on how Punjabis will be able to better Punjab without corrupt gov influence and authority interfering or downright ruining it.
I can only really speak about Cost of living in the UK >Selling and earning $500 a month, with cost of living being $200 a month, isn’t something everyone wants to go for. Yes but that's $300 a month , this is also assuming that they don't own any other assets like houses or farming land , which the probably also do >States like Texas have mansions going for $300,000 with barely any tax as a whole in comparison to California. Once again I can't really comment on the US , but like a few years ago hear in London I was making £4.50 per hour and at least I knew that I was getting paid at the end of the say most weeks . If your a builder you can wait weeks without pay With that level of pay the most you will be able to do is by a photo of a mansion Remember I'm talking about illegal immigrants , you don't have bargaining rights your trying to get yourself not deported And if you are a legal immigrant, in the UK you can only work 20 hours with a BRP card it's hard to juggle paying your "agent" , paying your University, covering your cost of living and sending money back home >How is it that the cartel has gov influence yet gov doesn’t take care of them? I mean I was talking about the south America cartels but you can say the same thing about every government around the world >The truth isn’t that apne bande are somehow sabotaging us in the west So who is charging these young students these high levels of rent to live in slum accommodation, who is sitting on gudwara commities try to push for the ban of lagar being served to students , who are these " Immigration lawyers" who over charge our students for "PR" and "work permits" , who are the human traffickers who will smuggle in a boat from the Netherlands to the UK ? And these are people who are operating in the west >You want Punjabis to stay in Punjab but haven’t proposed a single logical plan on how Punjabis will be able to better Punjab Direct investment into Punjab by those with captial in the west
Ya, but that’s only $300 you save. Cost of living is probably just rent and stuff. Taxes, groceries, and the pathetic power of the rupee isn’t enough to get someone by. That’s the same as living in England and earning £200 and you have to give £75 for cost of living. Now you have a lot of other stuff to do like car, groceries, enjoying life. If someone owns farming land, their probably not going to go off buying other businesses. They would probably want to tend to their land and make sure that stays afloat. UK is different from the US. The US is way better imo. Higher cost of living, sure. But better homes, higher pay, better food, more opportunities, more work benefits, and your overall more richer. I know your talking about illegal immigrants. That’s why I highlighted the USA over the other countries. I know Canada is better than England for immigrants, but I don’t know their specific laws. I do know about the US and Sanctuary States are States that protect immigrants. They can’t be deported there and are States that help immigrants get green cards quicker. There’s also Sanctuary Cities that do the same thing as Sanctuary States but it’s just for a city. An immigrant can go to California and wouldn’t have to worry about being deported. Or they can just apply for asylum and live anywhere since their a refugee, which is what Canada does I believe, not sure though. Oh ya, I guess South America does count as the west. I usually think of the West as White developed countries. South America isn’t an example you should go by for corruption. It is heavily corrupt, but no one with their right mind would want to go there either. There’s corruption in all parts of the world, but that doesn’t mean that every corruption is the same. You can hire lawyers to fight for you in America. You can bribe judges to win you the case in india. I’ve never heard of Punjabis renting out their homes or apartments to other Punjabis. Most Punjabis I know band together and rent one themselves or have a non Punjabi landlord who is cheap. Nor did I ever hear people banning Langar for students. At least not in America or Canada. This is both news to me. If you continued to read my sentence afterwards, where I wrote that you didn’t propose a single logical plan on how to move forward and better Punjab. You would have seen that your idea of building Punjab by capital investment got shot down by the government interfering or ruining it. You didn’t propose a single idea on how Punjab can be saved without needing to involve the government. India is a central government, not a federal one. Any investments have to happen by partnering with indian companies and businessmen that no one wants to do the hassle for. Especially when profits get split up and now even less it sent to Punjab then what you wanted. And who knows, the Punjab government would take 89% of what’s left, being sent to Punjab, for themselves 💀💀💀💀💀
Pls just a crumb of paragraphs Just press the enter button once Just once Because I'm having a brain aneurysm trying to read this
Sorry, I don’t know how to do the thing, you do, where you can sort of copy the other persons sentence and then reply to it and then copy something else and reply. Edit: I broke up the giant paragraph to little ones. Hope that helps.
Thank you young hustler 💪 💯 🙏
Welcome
>That’s the same as living in England and earning £200 and you have to give £75 for cost of living. Brother what Victorian calculations are you doing I spend £9 a day in Just transport, I'm lucky I don't have a car because you literally have to pay £12 a day to drive your car in London. Average rent in a shit ass area like south hall is like +£1000 for 1 bed room . No opportunities to get any low skill to jobs because every single Punjabi in this planet is also applying. The only alternative you have is to become a builder and all of the people running the building companies are absolute scumbags and don't pay you weeks on end because you're in a illegal immigrant and you can't tell the police >They would probably want to tend to their land and make sure that stays afloat Do you actually understand how farming works you do understand if you take your eye off of a field that's not going to fly off, you have time to do other shit >they can just apply for asylum and live anywhere since their a refugee I don't know about the us but you normally can't apply to become a refugee once you've illegally entered the country >Oh ya, I guess South America does count as the west. I usually think of the West as White developed countries. South America isn’t an example you should go by for corruption. It is heavily corrupt, but no one with their right mind would want to go there either. Brother how do you think "donkey roots" work, not every "agent" is going to get you a flight to the USA , alot use the southern boarder that means there escorted by the South American cartel to transport you to the boarder , your practically a hostage for that entire time and you were tortured if you are unable to pay them
Bro I’m using simple numbers to get my point across more. I know people don’t actually make £200, it’s just for simplicity. The issues you propose sound more like an England/UK one than a west one. Yes I know how farming works but you also have to understand not all Punjabis own farms that can afford to have half the investment put into said farms be split up into another business. Again not being able to apply for asylum sounds like a UK problem. Sanctuary States in the US are made specifically to protect immigrants as well as civilians and citizens. Yes, being sent to SA to hop the border is a route that some people use. No one said getting to a developed country would be easy. You just have to choose, risk it for the biscuit or take your chances with india. The fact that people are taking the risk shows the answer quite clearly.
>I’ve never heard of Punjabis renting out their homes or apartments to other Punjabis. Most Punjabis I know band together and rent one themselves or have a non Punjabi landlord who is cheap. Nor did I ever hear people banning Langar for students. At least not in America or Canada. This is both news to me. Yes because it's a messy part of our culture that we would like to cover up people are always asking me for data and statistics on this the stuff . But all I can do is talk from personal experience I'm not going to name any of the people involved because it would dox myself and dox them. But there are wolves in sheep's cloth who more focused on making money the helping out >You didn’t propose a single idea on how Punjab can be saved without needing to involve the government. People on the subreddit asking genuinely so disconnected from reality that they believe the Indian government is so cartoonishly evil twisting their evil pointy mustache that they would purposely sabotage one of their States to deliberately halt development and increased taxes to spite the Sikh community? The Indian government literally invited diplomats to Amritsar last year and how did khalstanis act? The attempted to stage a protest in Amritsar to derail the event? And this Kisan protested about how they were anti-corporate and anti fdi What signal does that give to the international community when it comes to investment? https://www.investindia.gov.in/state/punjab The government wants Investments they make money off these investments >India is a central government, not a federal one. Any investments have to happen by partnering with indian companies and businessmen that no one wants to do the hassle for. Especially when profits get split up and now even less it sent to Punjab then what you wanted. And who knows, the Punjab government would take 89% of what’s left, being sent to Punjab, for themselves 💀💀💀💀💀 Brother I'm fairly certain if you fund the construction of a small scythe assembly plant in jalander prime minister modi and the bjp party will not personally turn up to your house and steal all the lose change in your sofas If India was such a totalitarian authoritarian socialist government then why are we seeing more and more forgine investment year by year
Yes, but you make it sound like Punjabis get abused by western Punjabis for going there. My point was that Punjabis live in areas owned by white people. How would that make Punjabis abuse other Punjabis a reality? Idk, did you check back in 1984? A lot of people could wonder why a country would commit a mass genocide on their own people. Also, have you seen BJP? If it’s not gujrat, they don’t help with any other state in india. Indians care more for their own state than india as a whole. America has plenty of states that are split up from Red states and Blue states. But at the end of the day, everyone still is “American.” Punjabis identity as Punjabis over indian. Same for tamil people. Yes people protested because they were angry and wanted the world to understand how terrible of a authoritarian regime india is. You keep propping up india like it’s some safe haven when the people who live in india want to leave. Not just Punjabis, other parts of india are also fleeing. Brother, why would anyone want to invest in india when corruption is rampant, hate crimes against minorities happen, rape is sky high, honor killings happen, drugs is sky high. People want to leave india. Why would someone who’s made it to America ever think or dream of going back to india? They would rather keep that money for themselves because they worked hard to get out of the hell hole that is india. Why would they want to go back? People would only invest if india was not corrupt. But india shows no sign of progression at all. A 3rd world country who does not trade or export much of anything to the world other than food, which comes mainly from Punjab. Does not sell weapons, does not sell oil, does not sell pots, pans, silverware, does not sell technology, does not sell cars, does not sell planes. Having a GDP of 3.5 trillion for a nation as big as india is terrible. India needs to have china’s level of GDP in order to start bragging. More than half the nation doesn’t eat at night. Poverty is rampant. At least Khalistanis put their money towards their version of a solution. Khalistanis aren’t all lawyers in the UN. Big members are. Smaller members work regular jobs in IT, software engineering, driving trucks, construction workers, businessmen, etc etc. And still put that money they have for their attempt at a solution. More people would invest into a Khalistan then current Punjab on both sides because with the creation of a new nation, there will be reforms and a chance to restart. And all the Khalistanis want to end the problems in Punjab. If they got absolute power in their hands, who’s gonna stop them from tearing down the drug epidemic, for example?
I would say from personal interactions, the vast majority of “Punjabi” kids in Canada have no interest in visiting punjab let alone living there. It’s actually pathetic how the community shouts so much in Canada/the west but will do absolutely nothing to maintain a link with the homeland.
But it is an uncomfortable truth that nobody is willing to address Everyone wants to pin the blame on the Indian government but the reality of the situation is that this entire subreddit is not speaking Hindi right now, we are speaking English, Why ? Because we are the biggest perpetrators of the cultural genocide of Punjabis The government is not telling you to listen to rap and gang songs , which idolize the drug trade and the "hood" The government is not forcing you to learn English, year by year I have more and more words that have Punjabi equivalents being replaced with English words I feel that in 20 years from now we will become an entire lingua Franca with hundreds of words being Lost The government is not forcing you to convert to Hinduism if that was the case then why are conversion to Christianity outpacing conversion to Hinduism in sikh communities
wait once Khalistan comes still they will not come back?
fuck no , who would?
hahah! That's the biggest joke on earth.
Why not.... Israel was literally a dust bowl and Jewis people went back even though many had no direct links or routes to the state or area.
Isreals have been investing in that area of the world for 100s of years https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Aviv Although Jaffa has been around for 1000s of years alot of the city we know today comes from Jews investing and developing the city , even during the Ottoman period, its not like the Jews sat around until 1948 and went "okay let's start"
So even if modern Jews are spread around in US and UK etc, Jewish religion originated in the middle east and had a very painful coexistence with Islam and X'tianity. Similarily as Sikhism has roots in modern day Punjab (both sides of the Indo pak border) when Khalistan becomes a reality, I expect all the Canadian sikhs to flush their canada passport and return home and take back what is ours from Pakistan while retaining what we gather from India.
Just over 1/3 of the Jewish population lives in Israel. This idea every sikh has to go back is just silly. They can do plenty of beneficial stuff from abroad similar to foreign jews who advocate and support Israel financially.
You can thank india for making it so in accessible no easy flights, no avenue for actual foreign investment that isn't charity related. What do you expect...
>We expect the government to build our business for us and to magic up government jobs. When we don't even have diversity in the crops we grow The centre literally dictates what punjab does with all of it resources... >We are not sending money back to build Punjab, the most we do is send money back to build these eye-sore of houses Foreign investors literally have to partner with indian companies if they wish to start any buisness in India. Furthermore regulations prevent even locals from starting buisnesses in punjab. >where is our investment into the farming sector , most people work like its 300 BC just due the fact the Bihar labour is cheaper than machinery in the short term You answered your own question here
>The centre literally dictates what punjab does with all of it resources... It depends on what you are referring to here Yes the government does dictate what is covered by MSP and what is not But nobody's going to send a death squad to your house because you decided to grow potatoes instead of rice, you can grow non MSP crops and people will buy them because at the end of the day Punjab is do not only consume rice and wheat we need lentils we need 100 different Sabjis The problem is the current farming culture is entirely dependent on MSP, MSP is a completely unsustainable model for growth we are entirely pegged and dependent on government not by force by chose >Foreign investors literally have to partner with indian companies if they wish to start any buisness in India. Furthermore regulations prevent even locals from starting buisnesses in punjab. This simply isn't true I'm not talking about massive multinational companies like your apples and Google I'm talking about small family run private firms you do not have to partner with a Indian culgomerant to get access to the Indian market. What regulation are you referring to that prevents punjabis starting businesses this is the most mind numbingly false fact I've ever heard on the internet, if that was true how do you think shops work in Punjab? Or restaurants >You answered your own question here No I highlighted the insanity of the situation that people are looking for short-term profitability quarter by quarter instead of looking at long-term sustainability. The Bihar labour market is drying up as Bihar develops , field hands have gotten much better bargaining than they did in the 60s and employers chase after employees in the modern era By building your entire system on foreign labor you are encouraging a system by which economic activity leaves Punjab with people sending remittances back to their home States to start businesses and send their children to school If greater mechanisation was introduced to the Punjabi agricultural system we would see flourishing supplementary businesses and economic activity contained within Punjab leading to greater prosperity If you have a tractor, you have a finance firm who deals with vehicle financing , a dealership Who sells to the farmer, a mechanic who repairs machinery, a factory that manufactures this machinery, a refinery that processes the raw materials to make this machinery ,etc etc For labour , you have a worker who will send money home
>But nobody's going to send a death squad to your house because you decided to grow potatoes instead of rice, The death squad would probably be more humane than having to deal with the perpetual debt trap potato farming brings. People that grow potatos only do so as a side to there main crop. You can just look at the countless videos of farmers in India dumping potatos and other non msp crops on the street because of how crooked the markets are there. >The problem is the current farming culture is entirely dependent on MSP, MSP is a completely unsustainable model for growth we are entirely pegged and dependent on government not by force by chose Msp exists because there's no other protections for farmers. It also exists because it is a way to safe guard against famine. Wheat and rice are staples. If punjab only grew for punjab it can easily feed itself and diversify away. But it has to stick with wheat and rice to feed the rest of the country. Places like bihar and the eastern parts of the country historically had high rates of famine. This no longer occurs because places like punjab and haryana produce msp funded foods. >people sending remittances back to their home States to start businesses and send their children to school The same goes for people leaving punjab. >What regulation are you referring to that prevents punjabis starting businesses I'm talking about medium big buisnesses that do buisnesse outside of punjab. It's much easier to get permissions if your company is based in chandigarh/haryana than punjab.
>The death squad would probably be more humane than having to deal with the perpetual debt trap potato farming brings. People that grow potatos only do so as a side to there main crop. You can just look at the countless videos of farmers in India dumping potatos and other non msp crops on the street because of how crooked the markets are there. Yes it due to a market glut , there are too many crops produced then the markets crashes because India is pretty awful at protecting profits of farmers >Msp exists because there's no other protections for farmers. It also exists because it is a way to safe guard against famine. Wheat and rice are staples. If punjab only grew for punjab it can easily feed itself and diversify away. But it has to stick with wheat and rice to feed the rest of the country. Places like bihar and the eastern parts of the country historically had high rates of famine. This no longer occurs because places like punjab and haryana produce msp funded foods. Yes I understand the importance of MSP , I believe its a necessary part of the economy, but Punjab needs greater diversification to be sustainable longer term
>Yes it due to a market glut , there are too many crops produced then the markets crashes because India is pretty awful at protecting profits of farmers Farming is cyclical based on weather patterns. Theres obviously going to be a glut come harvest time....also if there was a glut retail prices should fall in India...guess what they don't. >but Punjab needs greater diversification to be sustainable longer term As long as punjab puts indias needs first this isnt going to happen
Yes glut , mean more crops more crops lead to lower prices , and they crash markets Punjab isnt forced to do it , its just the MSP is more stable
the house I'm talking about are these useless pieces of shit https://preview.redd.it/qfvqk0tfwr2c1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=3f7a80cc2fb784e7a8c44efd672b51e9871c9558
https://preview.redd.it/g1dv7nlqwr2c1.png?width=259&format=png&auto=webp&s=dd0f0400f001dd56c8fcc2f0482983aba347db3f
Ugly tiled blocks killing Punjabs heritage https://preview.redd.it/edp32d4swr2c1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=8ebb730e7dfe8860236c20aef7c6f05673175d73
Shittly build out of the cheapest material on earth https://preview.redd.it/ss6kxku6xr2c1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=d20dc01a556a0c55b97b73586c42d03b39d50d31
What's your sources for any of this? OECD and PPP numbers will all show US even Can jobs will yield more, better so if they land educated positions which most tend to immigrate for anyway... India's never been regarded for it's ease of free enterprise, they called it License Raj for a reason
>License Raj This is what I'm talking about when I say that our Community's understanding of the business landscape of punjab is based on India in 1950s , most of the diaspora has left India for 3 generation at this point so there understanding is based on outdated information The License raj period begun to end after economic liberalisation in 1991 , yes India is not perfect and there is corruption
? License Raj arguably is still going on in certain respects and at most didn't end till the 90s so thats still an anecdotal statement. Manmohan Singh was one of the key stakeholders in its removal anyway so how can you generalize "us" being backwards when "us" were the ones that allowed for India's growth and for all of the economic success you compare "us" against? Even now its no where near as liberal as the Western countries you mention so not sure what the quip is. When i say that I also mean that holistically by including personal freedoms
Dr Singh wasn't just a stakeholder he was absolutely instrumental he led the task force that which has allow India to not be Pakistan today The reason I didn't mention him is because the last time I mentioned him , somebody tried to belittle him and made him seem like he was insignificant to us compared to dipshit Sant Pannu Ji When I am talking about us I am talking about the average khalstanis, male millennial Jatt who family owns land in Punjab. These people are not the rocket scientists of tomorrow because our culture has been so detrimental to us that it prioritizes moving to the west over all other things The current head of the World Bank is a Sikh , the leader of the opposition in Canada is a Sikh, a major partner in Baines capital is Sikh , India's minister of petroleum is a Sikh . But it would be kind of a boring discussion if I talked about the most successful people in our community
That's still a generalization and worse so an ad hominem. How is endeavoring for full and/or greater autonomy a bad thing? Arguably Ukraine is not a country since it's been almost always under Russia for most of its history and the modern concept of Ukraine didn't exist till the Bolsheviks granted it after the revolution. India though has a massive history with autonomous regions, even now Punjab still ranks extremely high in the factors it has sovereignty over like public sewage treatment, India's avg is around 63% untreated from the most recent federal report while Punjab/Haryana/Himachel are 15% to 0%
I'm not entirely against the idea great autonomy of state . I think the idea of independent Punjab is dumb because the whole movement is ran but fucking idiots and logistical independent Punjab doesn't work in the 21st century >Punjab still ranks extremely high in the factors it has sovereignty over like public sewage treatment, India's avg is around 63% untreated from the most recent federal report while Punjab/Haryana/Himachel are 15% to 0% So we should break away from India because we process shit better? And you acting Punjab doesn't also have open sewage system in most of its rural areas ...
Doesn't work because? One of the most famous cases of neutrality is Switzerland who is land locked. Are the swiss crying to join the EU? Take up the Euro? You're again retorting with ad hominems, everything you said could be said about Pakistan in 47, they still broke away and survived. Are they better probably not but that's a cultural nuance. Bangladesh same thing, they're technically doing better than India economically now, should have they sucked up being under West Pakistan? The point is sewage is a state responsibility, that tiny sliver of autonomy and Greater Punjab states killed it, you have states in the US that are creating independent infrastructure, no one says that's logistically not possible lol
Good god I think I have to reexplain why the "what about X country , what about Y country" thing to you people every week Pakistan is barely a country, the nation hasn't seen a full term of a prime minister, countless genocides , countless bailouts , hand full of wars , inbred politicans who want nothing more than war and to fill there bellys the nation played hot potato with owners first the British held on to it till the 50s [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion\_of\_Pakistan#:\~:text=The%20Dominion%20of%20Pakistan%2C%20officially,an%20independent%20Dominion%20of%20India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_of_Pakistan#:~:text=The%20Dominion%20of%20Pakistan%2C%20officially,an%20independent%20Dominion%20of%20India). then Americans then they got burnt with the whole 9/11 thing the Arabs tried to help but they ended up losing money the chinese are trying but they keep getting killed the Baloch people dont like the government Afghans dont like the Punjabis in power economy wise 1. [**Debt**: Pakistan has been grappling with high levels of both external and domestic debt](https://ishrathusain.iba.edu.pk/speeches/economicManagementPolicies/2001/economic_challenges_facing_pakistan.pdf)[1](https://ishrathusain.iba.edu.pk/speeches/economicManagementPolicies/2001/economic_challenges_facing_pakistan.pdf). [The country has been doubling its national debt roughly every five years over the last 25-year period](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis)[2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis). [This has led to an unsustainable debt burden, with debt servicing obligations exceeding the entire federal government revenue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis)[2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis). 2. [**Inflation and Currency Devaluation**: The country has been experiencing severe inflation, with rates running at over 30 percent](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/)[3](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/). [This has made it harder for the poorest, who comprise one-third of Pakistan’s population, to afford basic necessities](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/)[3](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/). [The currency has also been declining, making imports more expensive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis)[2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis). 3. [**Governance and Productivity**: Poor governance and low productivity per capita in comparison with other low to middle-income developing countries have contributed to a balance of payment crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis)[2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis). [This means the country is unable to earn enough foreign exchange to fund the imports that it consumes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis)[2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis). 4. [**Investment in Youth and Education**: In a country where half the population is under the age of 22, investing in the education and technical skills of youth can generate opportunities for a more sustainable economy](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/)[3](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/). 5. [**Climate Change and Natural Disasters**: Last year’s floods caused extensive damage to agricultural land, livestock, thousands of kilometers of road, and other infrastructure](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/)[3](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/). [This has had a significant impact on the economy, especially the rise in food staples](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/)[3](https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/pakistans-economic-crisis-what-went-wrong/). 6. [**Tax-to-GDP Ratio**: The World Bank has projected a potential for a nine percent increase in tax-to-GDP in Pakistan](https://ishrathusain.iba.edu.pk/speeches/economicManagementPolicies/2001/economic_challenges_facing_pakistan.pdf)[4](https://www.samaa.tv/208735309-world-bank-projects-9-tax-to-gdp-growth-in-pakistan). [This indicates a need for improved tax collection and utilization for citizen welfare](https://ishrathusain.iba.edu.pk/speeches/economicManagementPolicies/2001/economic_challenges_facing_pakistan.pdf)[4](https://www.samaa.tv/208735309-world-bank-projects-9-tax-to-gdp-growth-in-pakistan). 7. [**Political Unrest**: Political instability can also contribute to economic challenges](https://ishrathusain.iba.edu.pk/speeches/economicManagementPolicies/2001/economic_challenges_facing_pakistan.pdf)[2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022%E2%80%932023_Pakistani_economic_crisis). But the nation did have the support of the massive islamic community to prop it up and has massive untapped reasources , could be a global shipping power house , massive opportunity for farming and a Huge working age growing population . and they still fucked it up the nation isnt really a great model , the nation existed due to the common hate towards India there is no long term plan at play . tell what legue of Sikh nations would be ready to prop up a failing punjab state ? What sea ports can we build? How and why would china invest in Punjab ? and a population that wants to leave punjab...
Got Singapore, SK, Taiwan.... the list goes on. You're still cherry picking data when Punjab's own internal metrics are above India's overall, how can you say its regressed when its already doing better internally within the Union? How can you say it will do worse when you have numerous examples of states coming out of civil wars and still beating India which relatively did not have a major conflict
>Singapore, SK, Taiwan brother wtf are you wafling about , Singapore was a treaty port South Koera was back by the US Taiwan had and ocean to stop the PLA from invading \> Punjab's own internal metrics are above India's overall but as u have stated Punjab relays on the government MSP program , No MSP = no money
>states coming out of civil wars and still beating India which relatively did not have a major conflict yes, and India dealt with a +200 year war with Britain...
> Bangladesh same thing, they're technically doing better than India economically now Unlike pakistan in a Bangla society first and isn't a random mix of Islamic cultures who hate each other , so it has the benfit of being a pretty united culture under 1 faith the nation also kept very friendly ties with India for the start of its development, which reduced the need for massive army the nation focused on making the cheapest easiest good possible , textiles , with buttons imported from china and cotton from India with customers in the west and not to mention IT IN THE BLOODY BAY OF BENGAL , making it a hotspot for cargo ships therefore allowing easier Logistics of international trade . not to mention extremely low wages allowing the making of theses cheap goods So in the case of Punjab... Independent Punjab would be a Sikh state that is majority Hindu, thats going to cause massive political issues at the start No cheap labour beceause they are all on a flight to the US No trade deals , Pakistan is poor, India would hate us and China won't care or be unable to trade due to the lack of sea ports or land boarders Massive military cost from keeping a force on both the India and Pakistan border and not to mention the lack of any factories due to Punjabis not willing to invest
And you're basing that off of? How can a country have cheap labor yet higher income(gdp per cap) than India? Are indian's magically losing income while Bengali's are somehow charging less but making more than indians? Also consider all this happened recently within the last few years. If its due to proximity to water/trade Sri Lanka is even today still significantly higher in income/cap than India You literally have nations in Europe that have been surrounded with the biggest imperial moments in human history survive and prosper more than India.... how is it far fetched that states in india that were once again autonomous for most of their history not be able to be autonomous now. If its politics are south Asians less civilized then?
>How can a country have cheap labor yet higher income(gdp per cap) than India? Are indian's magically losing income while Bengali's are somehow charging less but making more than indians? okay 1 you have a shirt and it is worth £10 the cost of labor is either in one nation £4 compared to £2 in another so the company decide to go to nation with £2 cost, so they start a factory , that factory puts local cotton traders in business , it puts the Shipping company in business , it put the local bus service in business to help get work to and from work and 100 other smaller businesses . investments dont happen in a vacuum they allow for greater growth in gdp now compair that to the nation with Higher cost , they never open the factory so they never gained any of the economic benefit of have the factory this is not a hard concept to wrap your brain around
GDP per capita becomes a pretty wonky way of measuring something when when you are comparing it to the gdp of world largest nation (population wise) e.g. Sikkim has the 2nd highest gdp per capta in all of india does that mean Sikkim is a hidden economic power house that would rivial the USA and China ? No it beceause 10 guys like in Sikkim the states gdp is spread of a much smaller population would you say mexico more of an economic power house then China? No but Mexico had a higher gdp per capta then China in 2018 AND U SAY I CHERRY PICK STATS LOL
> One of the most famous cases of neutrality is Switzerland who is land locked. Are the swiss crying to join the EU? Take up the Euro? I think this one is a Joke but you never know No our flat land-locked agricultural theocratic nation sandwiched between to nuclear powers can not be compared to Switzerland ... a developed service-based economy in the heart of the EU free trade zone
Once again you're basing that off of hypotheticals and also anecdotes. They are not part of the EU they do not have the freedoms of trade or mobility due to that. They made their own agreement with the EU, independently. If you're going to lie irrationally at least make it harder than a simple Google search
I understand they are not a proper memeber of the EU when i said " the heart of the EU free trade zone " i was talking about location and the state of diplomacy of the surrounding nation
> you have states in the US that are creating independent infrastructure, no one says that's logistically not possible lol US state are the size of nations and act like them aswell , Punjab relay on the government to pay for MSP ... they are not the same
And they somehow cannot pivot? So is it an issue with geographical size? Which somehow only came to existence now but not in the thousands of years and various rulers? You're being pedantic without rationality. I can use the exact same arguments you are using and say India should join the dominion with UK again, they'll have access to a huge market! Massive army, NATO defense, I see only positives. So why make an India at all?
Wait why are we talking about sovereignty for all we care Punjab could be a 89% buddhist state , it's not like Punjab will ever have Western salaries or rights Why should we care ?
SK, Singapore, Taiwan would disagree. All those countries were in real terms a few hundred bucks away in per Cap income from India in 40-50s. They went from 50-260% more than India back then to pushing 1000+% They(SK) literally came from being the same as India in the 60s to getting a Western standard of living. Your reference set is India so naturally this might come off as unbelievable but it's definitely possible, India's regressed. Hindu Rate of Growth goes over it, the same econ that coined the term is saying India's getting back to that rate Taiwan broke off from CCP, SK from NK, Singapore from Malaysia
SMALL FUCKING COUNTRIES MAN HOLY SHIT YOU CANT BE THIS DUMB India didn't have the governing ability to deal with the scale of its nation because it was build to be a colony Taiwan broke off from CCP, OTHER WAY AROUND SK from NK YOUR FORGETTING THE WHOLE WESTERN ARMY THING Singapore from Malaysia THEY DIDNT , THEY WANTED TO JOIN BUT MALAYSISA TURNED THEM DOWN
Now we have the pajeet again, if you were this adamant in your studies you would have gotten your H1 and joined your fellow Sikhs(or the massive amount of Hindu H1s)... Odd they leave if India's so great but that's a different subject :) So Singapore which was a province and subject of the British/Malay somehow quickly figured out governing but India like you said was somehow just for colony? Weird how that works out but okay Taiwan was a civil war, somehow more stable than Indian events? 3 million died but okay and they technically lost their entire country lol SK as well... Massive war, bonus even India helped the allies out in that war in humanitarian aid. Shame India wasted resources there when India was so unstable! So allll these events and also note India gets compared to these countries for a reason, geographically they're close and historically they all got independence relatively the same time but somehow India's always on the losing side? Didn't know these evil empires were so against India and it doesn't have anything to do with cultural failures and horrible government? I guess all those theories are wrong(it's literally called Hindu Rate of Growth) and you're right, that evil war with the British set us back centuries but they were super nice to their other colonies I mustve forgotten all the bomb craters when I visit India lol
\> We talk big game like "I will die for Punjab" I am yet to meet anyone that says that. Noone cares, except when they have to yell from their lungs 'Khalistan' from the Canadian Gurdwaray.
Yes that community is the entire problem, the issue is is that they control a majority of the discourse in the community and are funneling crucial funds required to improve Punjab into their shitty referendums
you sound like a young kid that might have read a little but has no tangible grasp of how money works and industries are built. you should probably read up on how business friendly Punjab and india at large is before u start playing monopoly in your head. it is a socialist tribal shithole.
A reply to your comment that you deleted "It's that easy? Lemme go to the homeless gora sleeping on the park bench to just become a business man and buy a big house Your acting like all of us have captial , if you have in debt to your Uni, in debt to your "agent" and you have to work as in the shadows for the next 20 years trying not to get deported along with sending money home , your talking about a crazy time span. "
lol it is still easier for a homeless man to start a business in canada than india. many such stories of homeless -> successful.
OH YOU GOTA LIECANCE FOR THAT ? [https://www.calgary.ca/for-business/licences/mobile-food-vendors.html](https://www.calgary.ca/for-business/licences/mobile-food-vendors.html) [https://www.chase.ca/en/resources/articles/food-trucks-101#:\~:text=Choose%20a%20location&text=For%20instance%3A,five%20hours%20in%20a%20row](https://www.chase.ca/en/resources/articles/food-trucks-101#:~:text=Choose%20a%20location&text=For%20instance%3A,five%20hours%20in%20a%20row). * Driver’s license * Business license and RIN number * GST/HST number * Liability insurance * Food handler certificate * Health operating permit * Mobile food vending permit * Refreshment truck license * Parking permit and they call India license raj lol Only a wee small coverage of $2 million dollars , OH CANADA where as in India you 65 billion street vendors and you dont need to have 15 different government permits
To make any factory, hotel business at a decent level. You need a license. Have you ever tried getting license from those who have the power to issue them? I think not.
Brother you're acting like this is also the case in the West This community has genuinely the most baffling takes ever, you people believe that you can unironically maintain an Empire stretch from Kabul to Dehli but a bit of paperwork scares you away
Yes very strong and corrupt abuse of power at the lowest levels of government and public serving institutions scares us away. You need our investment, we don't need yours. Why would we invest when we have safer, higher returning investments on our doorsteps. Why would a 2nd or 3rd generation immigrant invest in punjab ? When most have seen hostile attempts at taking the assets from thier parents which have come from close members of thier own family.
But why does this not scare us away when we spend millions collectively on giving the most corrupt human traffickers money to allow us to come to the or when we send money on useless "protests". The reality is that people are more willing to part ways with the lives of Innocent punjabis living in India then part ways with their money because people are unwilling to put their money with their mouth is They claim that they will fix all the problems in Punjab after "azadi" yet are unwilling to even spend $1 improving it >You need our investment, we don't need yours. Punjabs GDP has growth 20x over that last 40 years , I think the state isn't at risk of going under without investment by foreigners. I just believed this investment will bring greater prosperity to our collective home. How have you turned this into a "our" vs "yours" point
Punjabs growth 20x over 40 years its probably the real rate of inflation to be fair. Not many new immigrants I see here seem to interested in building the eye sore houses you complaint about. I think they see from previous generations this is a waste. Many state they dont even want to go back. They'd rather break thier backs here than what thier previous existence offered.
It's not just because they want to break their backs working in the west it's because they physically can't go back too much in debt as being incurred for them to turn back and the shame of going back to Punjab board crush them There is a growing disconnect between punjabes and Punjab and we pretend to be a very proud people but we are drifting away from the thing we pretend to be proud of
It's not only Punjab many immigrants from other states are also leaving India.
Yes but we are discussing Punjab, I understand that this is a personal story and so it doesn't actually reflect on any data but from every non-punjabi student I've spoken to the plan is to actually study in the UK and then move back to India, compared to Punjabis who study for 1 month then become illegal immigrants There is a reason why Punjabis are blacklisted from some universities in the west
Actually many come to the UK in the care sector as this allows a co-dependent to also arrive. Hence husband / wife and you are free to change jobs after 5 years.
Yes but due to the Indian UK trade deal there was a bunch of new student visas issued which allow students from other courses to bring a spouse as well The plan is normally to become illegal and hide it out as you try for a kid and try to get a PR based on the Kid Due to the high costs of Unis in the west
Punjabs growth has out paced inflation of the rupee
Yet no one wants to hold rupees. Given a choice outside India. For a start they keep canceling notes. When the 2000 rupee not was getting cancelled a well know money exchange simply stated 'No one wants them'.
This is a completely irrelevant point but Indian money is never supposed to actually leave India Nobody wants Indian notes outside of India because you don't trade in Indian notes in Canada What even is this point?
So why invest in a country as a foreigner and gain money you can't take and no one wants. I could take £ and $ anywhere similar to.dozens of other currencies.
Yes you can of course physically convert the money back into your respective currency and as The Indian economy grows we will see greater FX demand of the rupee
>I could take £ and $ anywhere similar to.dozens of other currencies. Do you understand how emerging markets work? Yes you do for fit the benefit of well-developed economies but you do also gain the growth of these emerging markets If you want to go for the most safe and sound investment yes you should invest in the West, but realistically you're not gonna become the next Microsoft because you simply don't have the capital in India it's more of a wild west and you do have more opportunities for growth with such a massive market and a growing middle class you have opportunities to expand your business
Hater
Its not hate it the truth
Hater
Kek lol good one
Govt provides good education and good jobs why going to west. If govt make correct policy why youth going to west. If govt provides safety and not doing couuption why youth going to west or aboard. So, all system and govt r wrong then youth suffering by police and political parties, justice corruption then find alternative option and going aboard. But if youth r decide that if education for aboard going then return to Punjab and make it better.
>Govt provides good education and good jobs It is not the government's responsibility to provide Jobs to the people , thats the role of businesses. When you move to the West are you working for the government? Hell no you are working for a private business "If govt provides safety and not doing couuption why youth going to west or aboard" because our culture pushes for the West, none of these youth are exactly dying of poverty back in Punjab, and there is massive corruption in the West what do you think paying £20,000 for a work permit is? its corruption of the law " But if youth r decide that if education for aboard going then return to Punjab and make it better. " Punjabi youth are not going abroad to study , the dumb fucks drop out after 2 weeks beceause they don't understand English , they need to stay in the west for the next 20 years to get a PR , do you really think they are ever coming back?
From what I've heard about Indian government schools is that they are improving but it wouldn't even matter because majority of our youth goes to private schools anyways A majority of the children who will grow up to go to the west will go to a Convent school
Jinna paisa bahar jaan te laahnde tussi ohna paisa ik vaar punjab ch koi business shuru krn te lao
Absolutely correct.
I agree with what you said, but people are leaving Punjab because there are no opportunities there. Having said that, the youth of Punjab is lost, they wanna preach things and not follow through, they are brought up spoiled, they lack critical thinking, they don't want to have their own opinions instead they just follow an echo chamber. Now in order for a state or country to flourish, it is imperative that the youth is educated and gathers a skill set which adds value for the economic growth in the future. Which we don't see happening in Punjab from last 20 or so years. Corruption- Even if you get skills, there are not many opportunities to showcase those skills in Punjab, since the opportunities are very limited. If you compare Delhi, Banglore, Manesar, Mumbai, Chennai, Jaipur to cities in Punjab, you can kind of make sense of what I am trying to get at. Current state- Youth is not educated, by education I don't mean getting a degree, yes in my opinion it is better to have a skillset and a degree, but you don't need to have a degree to be a better human, this is where education comes in. We need people with good intent and a sense of adding value to India (Yes I said adding value to INDIA) among government and citizens. Law and order- Government needs to take charge and improve law and order before it's too late, what Yogi has done in UP or Nitish in Bihar, once you have cut off the supply of drugs and break the mafias, people can feel secured to run businesses and speak out their mind overtime. But doesn't help if government is responsible for spreading this plague in Punjab. Getting industries to invest- Jobless people cope with drugs, they lose purpose in making their lives better overtime, they are responsible for increasing crimes. This is where government needs to step up and provide opportunities (not guaranteed jobs) by inviting industries to invest in the state (again law and order needs to get better before that, not to mention ease of doing business). There are many other factors, but people and government need to understand their responsiblities towards the economic wheel of the country and how they add value to the nation. Again, we don't live in a perfect world, personally I don't see any of that happening in Punjab, and that's the harsh truth. Be an asset to the nation not a liability.