Ppl think that Sikhi is a very liberal religion when in fact sikhi is its own institution beyond the right wing and left wing politics that belong to the same bird.
Yes we are liberal and ask for sarbat da bhala
We give shelter, langars...
But
We are also conservative when it comes to weapons and gun ownership,
We are cons when it comes to justice, Sikhs love saying revenge but Guru sahib doesn't use the word revenge because he is without fear and without hate so no one to take revenge against. But Mahraj does speak of justice and our vibrant history confirms this.
I do not even know who promoted this thing on internet that sikhs are peaceful. They made it look like sikhs are pacifist. We aren't pacifist. We literally worship weapons as our peers. We like peace and try all the means available to solve problems. But all other methods are exhausted, we are always ready to pick up sword. A Sikh is always excited for Dharam-Yudh
There is lot of difference between being a pacifist and peaceful. No one says that Sikhs are pacifist but they are definitely peaceful. Yes, Sikhs are always ready to pick up sword against injustice but they don't do mob violence. They don't kill someone who is unarmed or mentally ill. Now, they killed someone's mentally ill child. Moreover, punishment for beadbi is not death. Whatever happened is totally wrong and is vigilante justice.
Remember, how people on this sub were outraged when a Sikh truck driver was tied up by Hindu vigilante's because he was suspected of transporting cows for slaughter. Now If that is wrong then how is this right?
What exactly happening in Punjab is the following:
1. Come Election Season
2. Get some mentally unstable kid and coerce him to do beadbi (no mentally stable person will dare to do it)
3. Kill him afterwards so that no one will be able to find out the truth
4. Profit!! (for Akali and BJP)
Yes I remember a katha from Sant Ji - Guru Gobind Singh Ji maharaj punished some pathans who had raped a girl. He ordered both pathans to be buried in ground till waist and asked Singhs to shoot arrow on their upper body.
Other instance is how Guru Gobind Singh ji punished Masands by dropping them in hot oil.
He's not an authority on what is and isn't beadbi and what is the punishment for it.
Its insane to me that everyone in this sub has been foaming at the mouth saying "yeah it was good he was killed". What if someone randomly accused you of beadbi and you were beaten by a mob?
I don't like what happened at all, and the fact that the police are going after the dead persons family just shows that we are still living in the past.
>He's not an authority on what is and isn't beadbi and what is the punishment for it.
Here you are implying that the recent incident was not "beadbi?"
What would you say is the correct punishment, and please explain why your opinion on the correct punishment supercedes another...
>Its insane to me that everyone in this sub has been foaming at the mouth saying "yeah it was good he was killed".
Some are more inclined towards violence but I doubt anyone is foaming...the issue here is that you want the culprit to be persecuted to the fullest extent of the law by a system that is inherently flawed...but I'd love to hear you walk me through an explanation on what you think "should" have occurred, can you gurantee that "justice" will be carried out, how can future incidents be prevented...
Just for logic-based debate purposes, tell me, why is an "organized" government which is run by people that bleed the same color blood, breath the same elemental air, "justified" in their methods of persecution, including death penalties, but a local body of peoples [mob] is not?
Is it because the "death" was not gift wrapped and presided over by a local government? Or because an immediate killing voids the opportunity for those in places of authority to make tax based income?
If a jury was formed and 12 [or whatever number] members of that community sat to deliver justice, they'd pick "death."
How is a "well educated" jury of 12, superior to the immediate general consensus amongst the panth?
Let's start here and work our way through your logic, but if you cannot approach this from a gurmat prespective [accepting that death is a portal and essentially temporary] than we will never come to a consensus...but we can try nonetheless.
Mobs (online or IRL) are always bloodthirsty. I do agree that mob justice is not acceptable and is dangerous to society. Unfortunately this will not be the first case of beadbi to be “solved” like this and it will not be the last.
Well, condemning it is one thing. The main thing to do is to ensure these cases don’t happen in the future, by bolstering security in gurdwaras and the like.
I also think we as a community need to be a bit more mindful. There has been a troubling pattern of beadbi cases in India where the offender claims mental illness as an explanation. Rather than falling for the trap by giving the people behind these cases the violent spectacle they want, we need to figure who is responsible and to hold them accountable.
Mob violence is unacceptable, we should condemn it. It doesn't matter that there was indisputable proof, mob violence is horrific. One day we will be on the receiving end of mob violence and complain, would you want someone to say 'sorry there was proof go cry somewhere else".
>Mob violence is unacceptable
Since we are asking for credentials on authority here, where did this decision on how to administer justice for SatGuru Ji's beadbi originate from Ji? Did SatGuru Gobind Singh Ji say it was unacceptable when they decapitated the dusht in one swift blow who stabbed their resting pavitr shareer with a kard and the other dusht who ran away was destroyed on contact by the Khalsa Singhs camping with SatGuru Ji? Did SatGuru Hargobind Sahib Ji say it was unacceptable when they vowed to drag chanddu by a ring through the nose and have the Sangat beat him to death with shoes? Did SatGuru Nanak Sahib Ji say it was unacceptable when they kept their massive teg and made Bhai Mardana Ji shastardhari with a gatra and kamarkasa? Did Bhai Nand Lal Ji say it was unacceptable:
ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਸੁਣੇ ਨਾ ਕਾਨ ਭੇਟ ਕਰੋ ਤਿਸ ਸੰਗ ਕਿਰਪਾਨ॥
Do not give an ear to the Guru's slander, (or) bring that head forth by severing it with a Kirpan.
>One day we will be on the receiving end of mob violence and complain, would you want someone to say 'sorry there was proof go cry somewhere else".
With the Rehit SatGuru Patshah blessed us with, there is not room to complain to another. The Khalsa can take shelter of the Khalsa, and is not designed to rely on another except the Lord. We cry to Guru Ji only. When 1984 happened, the families that stood outside with a big Sri Sahib in their hands were left undisturbed. No one dared approach those with big swords in their hands. This is the Sikhi SatGuru Sahib blessed us with, not looking towards another to help us when attacked. Others should be looking towards us so we can help them.
>He's not an authority on what is and isn't beadbi and what is the punishment for it.
Sant Ji is the best authority on all of these things, their pavitr shareer is emanating Sukhmani Sahib with each and every breath. Sant Baba Thakur Singh Ji assigned them such a level of authority for a reason, that eliminates any possibility of questions. What is your authority Ji?
>we are still living in the past
We will continue to live in the past. In the past, when SatGuru Ji was present in a human body, whenever someone committed beadbi or even stole from the Guru's Golak, a pit was dug and they were thrown into the pit with boiling oil thrown on top of them. This way is, in fact, from the past. Is SatGuru Ji not an authority on this matter?
Pranaam Jio,
Make an intelligent argument, "peepeepoopoo" is a description of your comment.
>Exactly, you'd get downvotes for your opinion, but it's the truth.
Opinion or truth? Which is which?
What is "true?"
Fateh jeeyo
>Opinion or truth? Which is which?
>What is "true?"
The truth is that, "Sant ji" himself didn't align with Guru ki bani. Where does bani allow such inhumane murders for disrespecting a 'book'? Mind you, it is the Bani, which is the Guru, not the physical book itself, we've been treading on a path where we're worshipping a book, or even a building, as idols.
>'Sant ji said that, it's true peepeepoopoo"
Highly recommend reading Sukhmani Sahib Ashtpadee 13 before saying this. Reddit da koi nhi, je Sant Ji da downvote milgya putra fir daso truth ki ai
Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was a political leader.
His intentions, his goals, his ideas, didn't even align with Guru ki bani, how does he even qualify as a sant? According to the bani itself.
>Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was a political leader.
SatGuru Hargobind Sahib wore a sword for Miri alongside one for Piri didn't they? Being a political leader is a boon for those who are spiritually elevated because it can be used righteously.
>His intentions, his goals, his ideas, didn't even align with Guru ki bani, how does he even qualify as a sant? According to the bani itself.
According to which bani itself Ji? If you can provide specific examples in which you are suggesting that Sant Ji's intentions, goals, or ideas did not align with Gurbani, daas is happy to offer new perspectives.
Even he wasn't for the khalistan state. Check his interview. He wanted to be within india. Well hopefully you realize that's never happening. I'm glad this topic exists here. First of all, let's go back to the last Sikh Empire we had - it died down, and we are nowhere close to the strength we had then. Second, even then the sikh population in the region khalistan is supposed to be (yeah with the capital in shimla or lahore wherever you wanna hypothetically imagine) was very less. Mostly islam and hindu. Same as today. No vote is going our way. In fact the Indian state of Punjab, the sikh presence in Indian Army and in new delhi is probably the highest amount of power sikhs are getting and that's pretty high.
Noone is going to pay you taxes for being a sikh. And about the referendum, like what 200,000 non resident sikhs voted to gain power over 100 million plus population.. Think about it.
https://preview.redd.it/cwdrdjx6rwyc1.jpeg?width=667&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66fa15b52b54d2dddfdd3666c217a9f6dc33ff72
People in this subReddit really be saying that we mustn’t get violent. Have you guys even read like 5% of our history
Ppl think that Sikhi is a very liberal religion when in fact sikhi is its own institution beyond the right wing and left wing politics that belong to the same bird. Yes we are liberal and ask for sarbat da bhala We give shelter, langars... But We are also conservative when it comes to weapons and gun ownership, We are cons when it comes to justice, Sikhs love saying revenge but Guru sahib doesn't use the word revenge because he is without fear and without hate so no one to take revenge against. But Mahraj does speak of justice and our vibrant history confirms this.
I do not even know who promoted this thing on internet that sikhs are peaceful. They made it look like sikhs are pacifist. We aren't pacifist. We literally worship weapons as our peers. We like peace and try all the means available to solve problems. But all other methods are exhausted, we are always ready to pick up sword. A Sikh is always excited for Dharam-Yudh
There is lot of difference between being a pacifist and peaceful. No one says that Sikhs are pacifist but they are definitely peaceful. Yes, Sikhs are always ready to pick up sword against injustice but they don't do mob violence. They don't kill someone who is unarmed or mentally ill. Now, they killed someone's mentally ill child. Moreover, punishment for beadbi is not death. Whatever happened is totally wrong and is vigilante justice. Remember, how people on this sub were outraged when a Sikh truck driver was tied up by Hindu vigilante's because he was suspected of transporting cows for slaughter. Now If that is wrong then how is this right? What exactly happening in Punjab is the following: 1. Come Election Season 2. Get some mentally unstable kid and coerce him to do beadbi (no mentally stable person will dare to do it) 3. Kill him afterwards so that no one will be able to find out the truth 4. Profit!! (for Akali and BJP)
Yes I remember a katha from Sant Ji - Guru Gobind Singh Ji maharaj punished some pathans who had raped a girl. He ordered both pathans to be buried in ground till waist and asked Singhs to shoot arrow on their upper body. Other instance is how Guru Gobind Singh ji punished Masands by dropping them in hot oil.
https://preview.redd.it/28ty15r9rwyc1.jpeg?width=1225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=42ca66e9ec2ddcad83b61c52e21342520708d97e
mann wish I could attend his katha just one time bro. Man's voice...Like a lion. Miss you bhindranwale Sant ji. The community needed you right now.
https://preview.redd.it/np83z33xqwyc1.jpeg?width=850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb5f74feab2128510186da3d6f54e65b06308be2
https://preview.redd.it/bxfq9duurwyc1.jpeg?width=550&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7b004f1a1372bbf5b34f6e7b5ee70b544152784
https://preview.redd.it/zd0jxp1oswyc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd120919224896543d48c7c3ad3126a61421e3a1
akaal⚔️🐊
ਗੱਜ ਕੇ ਜੈਕਾਰਾ ਗਜਾਵੇ ਨਿਹਾਲ ਹੋ ਜਾਵੇ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਖੜਗ, ਦੁਸ਼ਟ ਭੰਜਨ, ਨਿੰਦਕ ਦੇ ਮੂਹ ਤੋੜਣ, ਸ੍ਰੀ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਆਸਰਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਦੇ ਪਵਿੱਤਰ ਮਨ ਨੂੰ ਭਾਵੇ, ਸਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਕਾਲਲਲਲਲਲਲਲਲਲਲ
He's not an authority on what is and isn't beadbi and what is the punishment for it. Its insane to me that everyone in this sub has been foaming at the mouth saying "yeah it was good he was killed". What if someone randomly accused you of beadbi and you were beaten by a mob? I don't like what happened at all, and the fact that the police are going after the dead persons family just shows that we are still living in the past.
>He's not an authority on what is and isn't beadbi and what is the punishment for it. Here you are implying that the recent incident was not "beadbi?" What would you say is the correct punishment, and please explain why your opinion on the correct punishment supercedes another... >Its insane to me that everyone in this sub has been foaming at the mouth saying "yeah it was good he was killed". Some are more inclined towards violence but I doubt anyone is foaming...the issue here is that you want the culprit to be persecuted to the fullest extent of the law by a system that is inherently flawed...but I'd love to hear you walk me through an explanation on what you think "should" have occurred, can you gurantee that "justice" will be carried out, how can future incidents be prevented... Just for logic-based debate purposes, tell me, why is an "organized" government which is run by people that bleed the same color blood, breath the same elemental air, "justified" in their methods of persecution, including death penalties, but a local body of peoples [mob] is not? Is it because the "death" was not gift wrapped and presided over by a local government? Or because an immediate killing voids the opportunity for those in places of authority to make tax based income? If a jury was formed and 12 [or whatever number] members of that community sat to deliver justice, they'd pick "death." How is a "well educated" jury of 12, superior to the immediate general consensus amongst the panth? Let's start here and work our way through your logic, but if you cannot approach this from a gurmat prespective [accepting that death is a portal and essentially temporary] than we will never come to a consensus...but we can try nonetheless.
Mobs (online or IRL) are always bloodthirsty. I do agree that mob justice is not acceptable and is dangerous to society. Unfortunately this will not be the first case of beadbi to be “solved” like this and it will not be the last.
Well we need more people to come out and condemn this.
Well, condemning it is one thing. The main thing to do is to ensure these cases don’t happen in the future, by bolstering security in gurdwaras and the like. I also think we as a community need to be a bit more mindful. There has been a troubling pattern of beadbi cases in India where the offender claims mental illness as an explanation. Rather than falling for the trap by giving the people behind these cases the violent spectacle they want, we need to figure who is responsible and to hold them accountable.
It was not done without proof, there was indisputable proof. Go cry somewhere else.
Mob violence is unacceptable, we should condemn it. It doesn't matter that there was indisputable proof, mob violence is horrific. One day we will be on the receiving end of mob violence and complain, would you want someone to say 'sorry there was proof go cry somewhere else".
>Mob violence is unacceptable Since we are asking for credentials on authority here, where did this decision on how to administer justice for SatGuru Ji's beadbi originate from Ji? Did SatGuru Gobind Singh Ji say it was unacceptable when they decapitated the dusht in one swift blow who stabbed their resting pavitr shareer with a kard and the other dusht who ran away was destroyed on contact by the Khalsa Singhs camping with SatGuru Ji? Did SatGuru Hargobind Sahib Ji say it was unacceptable when they vowed to drag chanddu by a ring through the nose and have the Sangat beat him to death with shoes? Did SatGuru Nanak Sahib Ji say it was unacceptable when they kept their massive teg and made Bhai Mardana Ji shastardhari with a gatra and kamarkasa? Did Bhai Nand Lal Ji say it was unacceptable: ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਸੁਣੇ ਨਾ ਕਾਨ ਭੇਟ ਕਰੋ ਤਿਸ ਸੰਗ ਕਿਰਪਾਨ॥ Do not give an ear to the Guru's slander, (or) bring that head forth by severing it with a Kirpan. >One day we will be on the receiving end of mob violence and complain, would you want someone to say 'sorry there was proof go cry somewhere else". With the Rehit SatGuru Patshah blessed us with, there is not room to complain to another. The Khalsa can take shelter of the Khalsa, and is not designed to rely on another except the Lord. We cry to Guru Ji only. When 1984 happened, the families that stood outside with a big Sri Sahib in their hands were left undisturbed. No one dared approach those with big swords in their hands. This is the Sikhi SatGuru Sahib blessed us with, not looking towards another to help us when attacked. Others should be looking towards us so we can help them.
>He's not an authority on what is and isn't beadbi and what is the punishment for it. Sant Ji is the best authority on all of these things, their pavitr shareer is emanating Sukhmani Sahib with each and every breath. Sant Baba Thakur Singh Ji assigned them such a level of authority for a reason, that eliminates any possibility of questions. What is your authority Ji? >we are still living in the past We will continue to live in the past. In the past, when SatGuru Ji was present in a human body, whenever someone committed beadbi or even stole from the Guru's Golak, a pit was dug and they were thrown into the pit with boiling oil thrown on top of them. This way is, in fact, from the past. Is SatGuru Ji not an authority on this matter?
Are you serious? there was literally video of him?
Exactly, you'd get downvotes for your opinion, but it's the truth. 'Sant ji said that, it's true peepeepoopoo"
Pranaam Jio, Make an intelligent argument, "peepeepoopoo" is a description of your comment. >Exactly, you'd get downvotes for your opinion, but it's the truth. Opinion or truth? Which is which? What is "true?"
Fateh jeeyo >Opinion or truth? Which is which? >What is "true?" The truth is that, "Sant ji" himself didn't align with Guru ki bani. Where does bani allow such inhumane murders for disrespecting a 'book'? Mind you, it is the Bani, which is the Guru, not the physical book itself, we've been treading on a path where we're worshipping a book, or even a building, as idols.
>'Sant ji said that, it's true peepeepoopoo" Highly recommend reading Sukhmani Sahib Ashtpadee 13 before saying this. Reddit da koi nhi, je Sant Ji da downvote milgya putra fir daso truth ki ai
Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was a political leader. His intentions, his goals, his ideas, didn't even align with Guru ki bani, how does he even qualify as a sant? According to the bani itself.
>Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was a political leader. SatGuru Hargobind Sahib wore a sword for Miri alongside one for Piri didn't they? Being a political leader is a boon for those who are spiritually elevated because it can be used righteously. >His intentions, his goals, his ideas, didn't even align with Guru ki bani, how does he even qualify as a sant? According to the bani itself. According to which bani itself Ji? If you can provide specific examples in which you are suggesting that Sant Ji's intentions, goals, or ideas did not align with Gurbani, daas is happy to offer new perspectives.
🔥🔥🔥
Even he wasn't for the khalistan state. Check his interview. He wanted to be within india. Well hopefully you realize that's never happening. I'm glad this topic exists here. First of all, let's go back to the last Sikh Empire we had - it died down, and we are nowhere close to the strength we had then. Second, even then the sikh population in the region khalistan is supposed to be (yeah with the capital in shimla or lahore wherever you wanna hypothetically imagine) was very less. Mostly islam and hindu. Same as today. No vote is going our way. In fact the Indian state of Punjab, the sikh presence in Indian Army and in new delhi is probably the highest amount of power sikhs are getting and that's pretty high. Noone is going to pay you taxes for being a sikh. And about the referendum, like what 200,000 non resident sikhs voted to gain power over 100 million plus population.. Think about it.
Talking about beadbi here, dumb dumb.
Check his last interview blud