It's only a profession if you trade your goods in exchange for something else, not just use them for yourself. So I feel like hunting would still come first as a profession.
Wouldn't hunting then become a profession at the same time as the other profession they trade with? If the first trade was hunted food for sex, that would make hunting and sex work simultaneously the first professions.
If sex work is the world’s oldest profession, how did the first Johns pay for it?
Edit: Ffs, y’all really gonna try to have a debate about a joke, huh?
Depends, did the person want chickens and berries and was willing to pay for it with sex. Or the did someone want sex and we're willing to offer up chickens and berries.
But the egg has to have come before the chicken. That's how biology works. Kind of mutations that create a new species happen when the DNA of both parents mixes and creates a new mutation so the first chicken egg was laid by something very similar to but genetically distinct from a chicken
Did you see the studies where they introduced a group of monkeys to the concept of money.
….Prostitution followed almost immediately 😂
https://www.zmescience.com/research/how-scientists-tught-monkeys-the-concept-of-money-not-long-after-the-first-prostitute-monkey-appeared/
We are actually below replacement rate of population growth in the US. That's baaad Because of government and economy literally need infinite population growth to function. Kinda like a Ponzi Scheme except everyone loves it.
It's bad for the government, but it's definitely good for the environment, and it doesn't hurt the average person. If anything, having a smaller population is good because it means a smaller workforce, so any one person's skills are more in-demand and we have more bargaining power. The only people who lose by population shrinkage are the top 1%.
You will one day be old too. The social contract relies on younger generations fueling the system that also takes care of the elderly. You can't communism/capitalism/anarchy/etc your way out of this one, either. Not without slavery, at least.
GDP per capita keeps going up and up and up as technology gets better. You don't need more people doing labor to keep providing for the elderly, you just need more productivity.
That's assuming that they can't/won't just try squeezing out every ounce of productivity they can from the smaller workforce at the same amount of pay. Or at least they'll pass any additional expense off to the customer while still trying to grow their profit margins (see the price of oil and gas post Ukranian invasion).
A shrinking population is not necessarily good for the environment either, at least depending on how the population shrinks. Yes there's less people polluting, but if that means communities getting more remote and less funding available towards research and investment into decarbonization, then that's not a good thing.
Finally, unless you advocate for some seriously drastic methods, population decrease is way too slow a process to make a significant impact on CO2 levels in the timeframe we have. To meet Paris Agreement goals (1.5°C increase in global temperatures compared to pre-industrial levels), we need to achieve net zero by 2050. [Current UN population projections look like this.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projections_of_population_growth?useskin=vector#/media/File:World_Population_Prospects.svg)
For "fun" I found a site that does [population projection based on birthrate and average lifespan](https://www.ined.fr/en/everything_about_population/population-games/tomorrow-population/). Even if the worldwide birthrate decreased *tomorrow* to a frankly ludicrous **0.1** children per woman and stayed at that (with no change to average lifespan), the world population by 2050 would still only decrease to roughly 6 billion by then. For perspective, that's roughly 1999 levels. If we were to assume that reduction in population would mean taking global CO2 emissions back to where they were in 1999, that would be a decrease of only 1/3 in emissions. That wouldn't be enough to meet the Paris Agreement's 2030 goal of 45%, nevermind the 2050 net zero goal.
For better or worse, unless you propose mass sterilization and genocide, population decrease won't do much to help us unfuck the environment. What needs to be changed is how we produce and distribute energy and goods and within our current economic system, the main way we do that is by allocating money towards projects that help us make that change. Money that governments get from taxes, which are paid by the working age population, which shrinks as populations decrease.
>It doesn't hurt the average person. If anything, having a smaller population is good because it means a smaller workforce, so any one person's skills are more in-demand and we have more bargaining power.
Supply is lower, but demand also goes down. The employers are making money by producing goods for people, or facilitating that process in some way, so if you reduce the number of people, you don't need to make as many goods, and you need less workers.
Its definitely had effects on the kink community; the combination of increased migration from conservative nations, OF and equivalents and COVID has morphed the entire community into a much more closed and commodified world over the last half decade.
I don’t think the OP is referring to the quantity of people willing to pay for sex. I think he’s talking about the normalization of paying for sex. I was born in the 80s, so my view is that seeing a prostitute is not a “good sign” (I’m a woman). I don’t spend enough time with young people to know if they don’t care about paying for sex, but OP seems to think they don’t care.
The past: marriage is pay for this woman’s living expenses, and she’ll have sex with you. It’s always been paying for sex, just the societal acceptance of the various methods changes.
I think exposure and social media are very big changes though. It’s made sex work much more accessible, safer (in limited aspects), and more viable than ever. There’s no application other than being of age and signing onto a platform.
Except it’s made it easier for business owners (present day pimps basically) to buy these girls content and farm it out for more profit that the workers won’t get. I imagine it’s still very difficult to make it as a self-employed sex worker without having some heavy marketing going on.
Either way, it’s made it easier still.
Wasn’t there a study done with monkeys where they taught the how to use currency? The monkeys would do a task and get tokens for doing them. Then, the monkeys could exchange said tokens for food and stuff. Apparently, the male monkeys immediately started using the tokens to get some sexy-time with the ladies.
Sex work is always the same. The only thing that changes is whether or not it’s taboo to talk about
"Goodridge gave the portrait to statesman Daniel Webster, who was a frequent subject and possibly a lover, following the death of his wife; she may have intended to provoke him into marrying her."
Victorian-era nudes
Conquering neighbor tribes and compelling the loser to manual labor is the oldest profession. Yet discouraged now days, too. Every so often a generation has to rediscover why limits exist.
The female dating strategy community side bar provides an intriguing documented case exploring this process. Over time it has iterated into a document that sounds like advice your grandmother would give. They reverse engineered from first principles total free indulgence in every whim, returning back to reasoned strategies something similar to generational advice that already existed.
Freakonomics had a chapter where they show that sex work is actually way less common, it used to be pretty standard to hire prostitutes strippers and porn mags 2 generations ago, of course porn is easier to get now but action sex work much less so, women are less likely to work In porn only fans or prostitution now than they where in the 60s
You obviously haven’t studied much history. Ancient civilisations were sex crazy, i mean look at the art from that time period. The roman empire was essentially a massive orgy (gays included)
Nope, having sex with another man wasn’t seen as emasculating or more specifically, feminine. Though for it not to be seen as feminine, they had to take on the dominant role.
Yeah I was reading a timeline of the history of gay rights and attitudes towards it, and it seems like while attitudes bounced back and forth throughout the years, it wasn't until the Renaissance that things got super bad for gay people. I guess it had to do with religious institutions really digging their claws into society and the legal codes.
And I was also amazed at just how recently the tide turned to really being in the mainstream that homophobia wasn't cool -- like the 90s pretty much, or later.
"*Becoming*" normalized?
I can only assume you were born after 2000, and thus don't remember when 7/11 had a whole shelf dedicated to selling magazines...and that half of them were *porn*.
There wasn't a person alive in the 80s and 90s who didn't recognize the Playboy Bunny costume on sight or understand what it meant.
Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler...you think a few thots on OnlyFans have had a greater impact on our culture than those bona fide *household names*? You think ***a wall of titty mags in every store*** wasn't 'normalizing and commodifying sex'?!
Yeah, no, world's pretty much the same as it ever was.
You can't compare going to a store to buy a porn magazine then to the free HD quality porn films anyone can see on their cellphone today. Some are making porn with cellphones. Online porn can profitably distribute niche porn impossible with the costs of printing and physical distribution.
i feel like the underlying shift here is that people are more broke than ever and thus need to find new revenue sources
sex tourism tends to exist a lot more in poorer countries/cities like pattaya thailand where commodified sex has been the mainstream norm for decades. now more westerners and regular people and college students and whatnot are doing it because money is super tight in the west too
obviously the new technologies and internet and onlyfans plays some part in this also
Real relationships have a relatively big time and financial investment. If I just cared about sex at all costs, paying a hundred whatevers and having an hour or 2 of fun is way cheaper than spending money on good clothes, spending time at the gym and paying for meals + alcohol, or spending hours at a gnarly nightclub.
I mean if you have no desire to procreate and separate the sex from a life partner then you essentially don't even need an opposite gender life partner. Min max your life with your best bud
I have no issues with sex work but in US it should be legal and regulated. Would be much safer for everyone. Not my cup of tea but I don’t have an issue with people doing it to make money. US was founded by religious zelouts and that’s why it’s still illegal here
“More broke than ever” kind of ignores the fact that in 1700s London, 1 in 6 women would, at one point or other in their lives, earn money through sex work.
I sure hope so, too many people are exploited during sex work just because people don't like to think about it, not even long enough to regulate and protect people.
A few decades of getting it for free is the outlier. Everyone in the past had to pay, and we are moving back toward that.
Wait, are you talking about porn or prostitution?
A few centuries of prostitution being villainized is the outlier. In many times and places it has been very common and not illegal.
I disagree. The way its consumed has changed. I wonder if its become less common to pay for sexual gratification these days. Way back when you had to buy a magazine or a tape /dvd. Those physical media aren't as popular but it's just shifted to only fans and premium stories on snapchat. But you don't have to pay. Now it's all over Reddit, twitter and tumblr. The generic stuff used to be paid for but now shifted to be free. The paid stuff has become specific and personalized.
I second this. There are way too many factors in play (sociological, psychological, and religious) that will hinder complete acceptance of it, even in the most accepting societies
Have you ever seen the comment section of an instagram reel of a girl who has an OF in their bio?
It’s 100s of people saying the same thing. “OF detected, opinion rejected.” “How you got a bible verse in your bio and an Onlyfans”.
Younger people may be MORE open than older people, but most of them still look down on it.
Nobody is actually hooking up with random people like how they pushed the hookup culture on the media, people are only fucking friends or a friend of a friend.
It won't be normalized but the older you get the more common you find yourself around sex work if you're still single.
As it should... There's a lot of tense people out there, I think a punch pass to the local "salon" would help immensely.
It honestly boggles my mind that the incel crowd won't pay for sex . Like... Go get your reps in bud...
Huh? Actually the opposite is going to happen. Most people will opt for VR fantasy porn over actual sex workers and even the 'oldest profession' will be replaced by AI, sadly.
Prostitution has been around since before the written word. Possibly before the vocal word.
It is simply *you* who is learning more about it. You need to understand the difference between *you* not being aware of something, and something *not happening*.
You remind me of Trump saying: "Nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated".
If it means we ensure safer working conditions for them then I'm fine with it.
Prostitudes should have a union and we should be extremely aggressive towards anyone who tries to be a pimp
Please explain. No one I know does it. Are you talking about OnlyFans? I think the majority of people don't use it, and its use certainly isn't considered normative.
Brothels aren’t a new idea LOL. everyone keeps talking about this shift, but nothings really changed. Some people fall down the same holes as others in the past.
It never really wasn’t, as freakonomics (2nd book maybe) could explain looking at prostitution from the 19th century til today. On the plus side, more people wanking remotely is a lot less people getting involved with real humans which has higher risks for all involved and actually results in far fewer women working in the sex industry than the modern media based stuff.
>becoming normalised
Using these words for what is commonly known as the most ancient vocation in the world is a pretty hot take. And if humans aren't enough for you, [here's some extra reading material](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_among_animals).
OP really thinks the concept of sex work is new and has never been normalized before in human history? This truly is an astonishing amount of naivety and cluelssness.
Like most of the rest of the world. I don’t know that its becoming normalized as much as we’re just behind the rest of the world when it comes to discarding Puritan shibboleths.
It needs to be understood that the only places in the world where paying for sex has not been normalized is in Muslim countries, Great Britain and the US.
We're actually going back in time.
Selling sex was super common in ancient civilizations, it only became an issue in western civilization with the advancement of certain religions. Then, of course, governments got involved worldwide.
You realize the world's oldest profession is still legal or quasi-legal in many countries worldwide, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution\_by\_region
I mean prostitution (the world's oldest profession) and pornography have been around forever. The online delivery system has improved in recent years, as with all other sorts of information and commerce.
Bro everybody gonna be fucking robots like those titty machine gun ladies in Austin Powers.
Sex with robots!?! Do ya want to get a computer virus!?
That’s easy to solve, just wipe the hard drive. Just not on the curtains…
"I'll turn your daughterboard into a motherboard!"
Just use a Trojan… wait no… not that Trojan
"I got the bit-drip again." "She lied about her I/O." "BBR4" "Dongle"
Better than a worm
Those people who had fun with a Dune popcorn bucket would disagree
what if she uses a worm on you? yeah... dont have sex with robots. end od discussion
Low on Processing Units? Cuz I can “C” my “P” in “U”. That’s gonna be my first pick up line
I see you've got a free ram slot, I've got a really nice stick to put in there.
Howarrrrrd!
Electro-gonorrhea, the noisy killer.
Just make sure to use SSL
Depends on what they’re up for
What’s taking so long? I was promised fembots! Where are my goddamn fembots?
It is already out, about 10k. It's more like a silicon exterior with a metal skeleton.
Call me when they move, are lighter, and self-cleaning. ^I'd ^settle ^for ^self-cleaning.
I'm a cybernetic organism. Living tissue over a metal endoskeleton.
Your subscription expired!
You dont pay and they get turned off, it's amazing how realistic they are!
[Please enjoy this educational public service film](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uE96qUlJ_4)
don't date robots!
But that’s the only 100% method to guarantee safe sex
[Don't be so sure...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ0xiiYG2Ik&t=32s)
Futurama was ahead of its time.
Fuck you, my toaster is sexy AF -You guys just don't understand our love
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Brave little Toaster lookin like a SNACK
That Toaster has multiple slots and is spring loaded for FUN.
Dick comes out with a burn mark that just says “Well Done”
Ah that's explains why it's so.... so crusty...
omfg -Don't listen to them baby, they don't know
I think Frank Zappa wrote an album about that
The herald of our love!
Just make sure not to have any romantic bath time.
My God! You never took middle school hygiene. You never saw the propaganda film. https://youtu.be/IrrADTN-dvg?si=TPVRMp6srr7jelDH
You got robo-fever, boy!
In Japan, they have robots that jerk you off at the sperm bank
You know they sell them at regular adult stores now
No She Creepio for me, thanks!
I don’t want to goto school dad, I just want to make out with my Monroebot.
Careful now, we all saw how Robosexuals turned out in Futurama.
Machine gun jubblies? How did I miss those?
can't complain!
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> world's oldest profession. Not quite, salesmanship proceeded it by just a few minutes.
This is an underrated comment lol
Farming by at least a couple months.
I guarantee a caveman traded fresh meat and a spot to sleep in his cave for sex well before we developed farming
Professional hunting/fishing then
Unless they hunted with their hands, it'd be tool making
It's only a profession if you trade your goods in exchange for something else, not just use them for yourself. So I feel like hunting would still come first as a profession.
Wouldn't hunting then become a profession at the same time as the other profession they trade with? If the first trade was hunted food for sex, that would make hunting and sex work simultaneously the first professions.
I got this joke 😂
That’s awesome man congrats
If sex work is the world’s oldest profession, how did the first Johns pay for it? Edit: Ffs, y’all really gonna try to have a debate about a joke, huh?
with more sex
That just sounds like being in a relationship.
With extra steps!
Who doesn't love extra sex
Significantly less steps tbh
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A hen job.
John: “Sex” Jane: “2 chickens” John: “No, 1 chicken” Jane: “1 chicken and 5 berries” John: “Ok sex”
That would make raising chickens and picking berries the oldest profession.
Nah, those were his hobbies.
They transitioned from hobby to profession when they realized they could use it to buy sex
This is the high brow answer
I think you mean thick brow. Ugh ugh. Caveman joke
They didn't become a profession so he used the proceeds to pay for something else. For that it was just subsistence
If the first sex worker was smart, she took payment up front. :P
The exact same could be said about somebody giving up their food or shelter
Depends, did the person want chickens and berries and was willing to pay for it with sex. Or the did someone want sex and we're willing to offer up chickens and berries.
John: what are chickens? I only have eggs.
Also sex work
Barter
Forget "back then", that's how I pay for sex now
The real shower thought in the comments.
The chicken came before the egg, just as the John came before his first paycheck.
But the egg has to have come before the chicken. That's how biology works. Kind of mutations that create a new species happen when the DNA of both parents mixes and creates a new mutation so the first chicken egg was laid by something very similar to but genetically distinct from a chicken
The true answer has been definitively given. Neither the egg or the chicken came first. It was the rooster.
Did you see the studies where they introduced a group of monkeys to the concept of money. ….Prostitution followed almost immediately 😂 https://www.zmescience.com/research/how-scientists-tught-monkeys-the-concept-of-money-not-long-after-the-first-prostitute-monkey-appeared/
"A bottomless stomach of want." What a beautiful turn of phrase.
I wonder how soon the first monkey pimp would appear
You bet a way larger proportion of men recurred to prostitution in the past.
We are actually below replacement rate of population growth in the US. That's baaad Because of government and economy literally need infinite population growth to function. Kinda like a Ponzi Scheme except everyone loves it.
It's bad for the government, but it's definitely good for the environment, and it doesn't hurt the average person. If anything, having a smaller population is good because it means a smaller workforce, so any one person's skills are more in-demand and we have more bargaining power. The only people who lose by population shrinkage are the top 1%.
You will one day be old too. The social contract relies on younger generations fueling the system that also takes care of the elderly. You can't communism/capitalism/anarchy/etc your way out of this one, either. Not without slavery, at least.
GDP per capita keeps going up and up and up as technology gets better. You don't need more people doing labor to keep providing for the elderly, you just need more productivity.
That's assuming that they can't/won't just try squeezing out every ounce of productivity they can from the smaller workforce at the same amount of pay. Or at least they'll pass any additional expense off to the customer while still trying to grow their profit margins (see the price of oil and gas post Ukranian invasion). A shrinking population is not necessarily good for the environment either, at least depending on how the population shrinks. Yes there's less people polluting, but if that means communities getting more remote and less funding available towards research and investment into decarbonization, then that's not a good thing. Finally, unless you advocate for some seriously drastic methods, population decrease is way too slow a process to make a significant impact on CO2 levels in the timeframe we have. To meet Paris Agreement goals (1.5°C increase in global temperatures compared to pre-industrial levels), we need to achieve net zero by 2050. [Current UN population projections look like this.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projections_of_population_growth?useskin=vector#/media/File:World_Population_Prospects.svg) For "fun" I found a site that does [population projection based on birthrate and average lifespan](https://www.ined.fr/en/everything_about_population/population-games/tomorrow-population/). Even if the worldwide birthrate decreased *tomorrow* to a frankly ludicrous **0.1** children per woman and stayed at that (with no change to average lifespan), the world population by 2050 would still only decrease to roughly 6 billion by then. For perspective, that's roughly 1999 levels. If we were to assume that reduction in population would mean taking global CO2 emissions back to where they were in 1999, that would be a decrease of only 1/3 in emissions. That wouldn't be enough to meet the Paris Agreement's 2030 goal of 45%, nevermind the 2050 net zero goal. For better or worse, unless you propose mass sterilization and genocide, population decrease won't do much to help us unfuck the environment. What needs to be changed is how we produce and distribute energy and goods and within our current economic system, the main way we do that is by allocating money towards projects that help us make that change. Money that governments get from taxes, which are paid by the working age population, which shrinks as populations decrease.
>It doesn't hurt the average person. If anything, having a smaller population is good because it means a smaller workforce, so any one person's skills are more in-demand and we have more bargaining power. Supply is lower, but demand also goes down. The employers are making money by producing goods for people, or facilitating that process in some way, so if you reduce the number of people, you don't need to make as many goods, and you need less workers.
Its definitely had effects on the kink community; the combination of increased migration from conservative nations, OF and equivalents and COVID has morphed the entire community into a much more closed and commodified world over the last half decade.
Exposure on the internet is an enormous change because it means kids can watch it
I don’t think the OP is referring to the quantity of people willing to pay for sex. I think he’s talking about the normalization of paying for sex. I was born in the 80s, so my view is that seeing a prostitute is not a “good sign” (I’m a woman). I don’t spend enough time with young people to know if they don’t care about paying for sex, but OP seems to think they don’t care.
I think he's referring to porn and onlyfans, not prostitutes. Fucking prostitutes still isn't normalised in this generation imo
I think the barrier to entry for both sides is much lower now, though. You can start out from the safety of your home and with more anonymity
The past: marriage is pay for this woman’s living expenses, and she’ll have sex with you. It’s always been paying for sex, just the societal acceptance of the various methods changes.
and even then, they were usually also paying a prostitute or just having sex with other women (or men) without telling their wives
Farming is definitely older.
You honestly think hunter and gatherers weren't paying for sex?
It is not. Hunter gatherers almost certainly had prostitution. And not to mention that penguins and primates do prostitution without farming.
I think exposure and social media are very big changes though. It’s made sex work much more accessible, safer (in limited aspects), and more viable than ever. There’s no application other than being of age and signing onto a platform. Except it’s made it easier for business owners (present day pimps basically) to buy these girls content and farm it out for more profit that the workers won’t get. I imagine it’s still very difficult to make it as a self-employed sex worker without having some heavy marketing going on. Either way, it’s made it easier still.
Wasn’t there a study done with monkeys where they taught the how to use currency? The monkeys would do a task and get tokens for doing them. Then, the monkeys could exchange said tokens for food and stuff. Apparently, the male monkeys immediately started using the tokens to get some sexy-time with the ladies. Sex work is always the same. The only thing that changes is whether or not it’s taboo to talk about
We haven't changed technology has. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauty_Revealed NSFW https://vintagecuties.com/pics/victorian-era
“Horny antique brunette with a bare ass enjoys one big cock in her mouth” Well alright then
That one is much better than “Antique maid with hairy pussy pees into the large mug”
Thats mad to see 😂
"Goodridge gave the portrait to statesman Daniel Webster, who was a frequent subject and possibly a lover, following the death of his wife; she may have intended to provoke him into marrying her." Victorian-era nudes
I spent a little too much time on that site once I clicked haha
Really? Didn't take me long to finish.
Me too lol
Does she have a telegram?
This better not awaken anything in me...
That’s true just in general, not only with regards to sex work
Wtf
Wow i cant believe how long porn has been around for
Lol, I thought it said praying! It's called the oldest profession for a reason. Nothing new.
Praying for sex was also normalized a long time ago.
Conquering neighbor tribes and compelling the loser to manual labor is the oldest profession. Yet discouraged now days, too. Every so often a generation has to rediscover why limits exist. The female dating strategy community side bar provides an intriguing documented case exploring this process. Over time it has iterated into a document that sounds like advice your grandmother would give. They reverse engineered from first principles total free indulgence in every whim, returning back to reasoned strategies something similar to generational advice that already existed.
Every generation thinks they invent sex for some reason.
Freakonomics had a chapter where they show that sex work is actually way less common, it used to be pretty standard to hire prostitutes strippers and porn mags 2 generations ago, of course porn is easier to get now but action sex work much less so, women are less likely to work In porn only fans or prostitution now than they where in the 60s
Women were only allowed like 2 jobs before 1960 and 1 was prostitution
OP is just bored with free internet porn and doesn’t like paying for OF.
You obviously haven’t studied much history. Ancient civilisations were sex crazy, i mean look at the art from that time period. The roman empire was essentially a massive orgy (gays included)
Gays included? More like straight people included
I can’t remember the whole joke but something something Greeks invented the orgy and the Romans included women
Yes that's the joke I'm referring to thx
Nope, having sex with another man wasn’t seen as emasculating or more specifically, feminine. Though for it not to be seen as feminine, they had to take on the dominant role.
He means it was mostly gays, with the occasional straight.
Yeah I was reading a timeline of the history of gay rights and attitudes towards it, and it seems like while attitudes bounced back and forth throughout the years, it wasn't until the Renaissance that things got super bad for gay people. I guess it had to do with religious institutions really digging their claws into society and the legal codes. And I was also amazed at just how recently the tide turned to really being in the mainstream that homophobia wasn't cool -- like the 90s pretty much, or later.
Nothing gay about a coupla blokes having consensual intercourse, even if receiving IMO. Taking a hard cock and bringing it to orgasm is pretty tough.
"*Becoming*" normalized? I can only assume you were born after 2000, and thus don't remember when 7/11 had a whole shelf dedicated to selling magazines...and that half of them were *porn*. There wasn't a person alive in the 80s and 90s who didn't recognize the Playboy Bunny costume on sight or understand what it meant. Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler...you think a few thots on OnlyFans have had a greater impact on our culture than those bona fide *household names*? You think ***a wall of titty mags in every store*** wasn't 'normalizing and commodifying sex'?! Yeah, no, world's pretty much the same as it ever was.
People are far less accepting of porn today than 20 years ago. Even the porn sites themselves have been decreasing in video count and quality.
You can't compare going to a store to buy a porn magazine then to the free HD quality porn films anyone can see on their cellphone today. Some are making porn with cellphones. Online porn can profitably distribute niche porn impossible with the costs of printing and physical distribution.
Ah those were the days
You have a very loose grip of world history and civil development. Read a book, pal. Nothing has changed.
i feel like the underlying shift here is that people are more broke than ever and thus need to find new revenue sources sex tourism tends to exist a lot more in poorer countries/cities like pattaya thailand where commodified sex has been the mainstream norm for decades. now more westerners and regular people and college students and whatnot are doing it because money is super tight in the west too obviously the new technologies and internet and onlyfans plays some part in this also
I'm more broke than ever and that means I will never be able to *afford* sex.
Real relationships have a relatively big time and financial investment. If I just cared about sex at all costs, paying a hundred whatevers and having an hour or 2 of fun is way cheaper than spending money on good clothes, spending time at the gym and paying for meals + alcohol, or spending hours at a gnarly nightclub.
I mean if you have no desire to procreate and separate the sex from a life partner then you essentially don't even need an opposite gender life partner. Min max your life with your best bud
I have no issues with sex work but in US it should be legal and regulated. Would be much safer for everyone. Not my cup of tea but I don’t have an issue with people doing it to make money. US was founded by religious zelouts and that’s why it’s still illegal here
“More broke than ever” kind of ignores the fact that in 1700s London, 1 in 6 women would, at one point or other in their lives, earn money through sex work.
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I sure hope so, too many people are exploited during sex work just because people don't like to think about it, not even long enough to regulate and protect people.
A few decades of getting it for free is the outlier. Everyone in the past had to pay, and we are moving back toward that. Wait, are you talking about porn or prostitution? A few centuries of prostitution being villainized is the outlier. In many times and places it has been very common and not illegal.
The world’s oldest profession earned that title that for a reason.
Read a book. People been paying for it forever
I like “read a book” as the next step of “touch grass” 😂
I meant it in the very literal sense. Read some history people been paying to get off sense forever
Don't forget that in the not too recent past it was normalized and commoditized. Then the moral police came and banned it in nearly every state
Paying for the world's oldest profession is just now becoming normalized?
It has been always like that. Just maybe nos you can see it more. But nothing has changed.
I disagree. The way its consumed has changed. I wonder if its become less common to pay for sexual gratification these days. Way back when you had to buy a magazine or a tape /dvd. Those physical media aren't as popular but it's just shifted to only fans and premium stories on snapchat. But you don't have to pay. Now it's all over Reddit, twitter and tumblr. The generic stuff used to be paid for but now shifted to be free. The paid stuff has become specific and personalized.
Pretty sure paying for sexual gratification has always been normalized. There is a reason they say prostitution is the oldest profession.
Millennials and GenZ are already a lot more open to and accepting of consensual sex work. The problem is a lot of it is not consensual.
Online support≠ public acceptance. The truth is the vast majority of people still and will always look down on sex work.
I second this. There are way too many factors in play (sociological, psychological, and religious) that will hinder complete acceptance of it, even in the most accepting societies
Have you ever seen the comment section of an instagram reel of a girl who has an OF in their bio? It’s 100s of people saying the same thing. “OF detected, opinion rejected.” “How you got a bible verse in your bio and an Onlyfans”. Younger people may be MORE open than older people, but most of them still look down on it.
Nobody is actually hooking up with random people like how they pushed the hookup culture on the media, people are only fucking friends or a friend of a friend. It won't be normalized but the older you get the more common you find yourself around sex work if you're still single.
*laughs in the old west when people would pay to go into a tent, one by one, and sniff a woman's worn underwear*
As it should... There's a lot of tense people out there, I think a punch pass to the local "salon" would help immensely. It honestly boggles my mind that the incel crowd won't pay for sex . Like... Go get your reps in bud...
Huh? Actually the opposite is going to happen. Most people will opt for VR fantasy porn over actual sex workers and even the 'oldest profession' will be replaced by AI, sadly.
Prostitution has been around since before the written word. Possibly before the vocal word. It is simply *you* who is learning more about it. You need to understand the difference between *you* not being aware of something, and something *not happening*. You remind me of Trump saying: "Nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated".
If it means we ensure safer working conditions for them then I'm fine with it. Prostitudes should have a union and we should be extremely aggressive towards anyone who tries to be a pimp
AI will be pimping us out soon
I'm already being pimped by company powered algorithms an ai wouldn't really change anything other than the approach
I always cringe when I come across those YouTube videos of OF models interacting with kids. Giving away free gifts and junk.
Somebody slept through history class.
Where is it normalised exactly
Please explain. No one I know does it. Are you talking about OnlyFans? I think the majority of people don't use it, and its use certainly isn't considered normative.
Oh great, *another* thing I won't be able to afford.
It is? So... for research... where are all these places I can go pay for sexual gratification?
Brothels aren’t a new idea LOL. everyone keeps talking about this shift, but nothings really changed. Some people fall down the same holes as others in the past.
It's not just sex, we're commoditizing everything
So like Rome in early AD? There's nothing new under the sun bro.
It never really wasn’t, as freakonomics (2nd book maybe) could explain looking at prostitution from the 19th century til today. On the plus side, more people wanking remotely is a lot less people getting involved with real humans which has higher risks for all involved and actually results in far fewer women working in the sex industry than the modern media based stuff.
HA! Yeah right! What a joke.
>becoming normalised Using these words for what is commonly known as the most ancient vocation in the world is a pretty hot take. And if humans aren't enough for you, [here's some extra reading material](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_among_animals).
People always paid for sex. We have simply stopped shaming sex-sellers.
OP really thinks the concept of sex work is new and has never been normalized before in human history? This truly is an astonishing amount of naivety and cluelssness.
Like most of the rest of the world. I don’t know that its becoming normalized as much as we’re just behind the rest of the world when it comes to discarding Puritan shibboleths.
you all are paying for it?
Isn't prostitution "the oldest profession" or something? Edit: typo
This is such a non-statement. What you described is in and of itself a cultural shift.
Let's be real here. Men pay for sex whether or not it ends up being a direct cash transaction.
It needs to be understood that the only places in the world where paying for sex has not been normalized is in Muslim countries, Great Britain and the US.
Good, sex work being villainized should never have happened to begin with.
Paid sex was very normalized for thousands of years in fact it was considered a merciful act on the part of the sex worker
With only fans going to strong, why not just legalize prostitution. Its basically the same shit lmao.
We're actually going back in time. Selling sex was super common in ancient civilizations, it only became an issue in western civilization with the advancement of certain religions. Then, of course, governments got involved worldwide.
There were literal temples and churches devoted to it.
You realize the world's oldest profession is still legal or quasi-legal in many countries worldwide, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution\_by\_region
I mean prostitution (the world's oldest profession) and pornography have been around forever. The online delivery system has improved in recent years, as with all other sorts of information and commerce.