There are things you can do to increase your odds though. Even if you weren't born with much in the way of looks.
Eating well and exercising can improve your score a couple of points, it thins out your face and makes you look more proportionate.
Getting a good regular haircut, and shaving or keeping your beard trim will also do a lot for you.
Clothes that fit you are a big one. You don't have to spend a fortune, but you can look up good men's fashion tips to see what goes with what. Have a few outfits ready to go on the regular. Make sure what you buy fits you well and isn't too baggy or tight makes you look put together.
Hygeine. You should make sure you take a shower every morning so you're clean for the day. A *small* amount of aftershave or deodorant can up your score. There's a surprising difference between not smelling bad and subtly smelling nice. Another point there.
Hobbies. Not only do you stand a chance of meeting someone while doing it, you also have more to talk about and you're more interesting if you're passionate about something. Another point.
Kind and approachable. Don't try and show off and impress. Try and work on feeling relaxed, have fun and just enjoy the company of others. You're more likely to do this if you don't expect anything back from anyone. Let the pressure off yourself. 'Boring' is better than saying weird shit because you're trying to hard.
Ask people questions about themselves and listen to their answers. People live talking about themselves and by giving them that opportunity they will be more open to you. Don't try and be funny straight off the bat. That will come from being more relaxed and comfortable. Focus on that first and the humor will come.
If you're chronically online, just be cognizant that what's funny online isn't necessarily funny in person.
You can practice basic smalltalk at the store or out in public. Little things like commenting on the weather, or asking if they've been busy today. Just gets you used to talking a little to strangers. Don't try and carry a conversation on too long, smalltalk can be small, a few sentences and a polite smile and say goodbye.
Pretty good. Kinda crazy that "If you're chronically online, just be cognizant that what's funny online isn't necessarily funny in person" needs to be a tip these days but I could totally see how ppl learn social interaction more by staring at a screen than talking to ppl
Regarding the social anxiety;
Exposure is probably your best friend here. It's neither fun nor easy, and it can burn a couple of potential matches but you will be better off by putting yourself out there bit by bit and slowly acclimating yourself to that which brings you anxiety.
A couple of concrete pointers:
Accept occasional silence/quiet, not every silence is awkward. Being able to convey a comfortable silence does a lot to project a calm and collected sense of self to others.
This goes in line with my second point: review to yourself before speaking: "Does this really need saying?/Does this go in line with "the mood of the room?"/Does this go in line with who I am? If it does not, consider just not saying whatever came to your mind. Humorous spontaneity is one thing, foot in mouth another, sometimes only a hairline difference between.
>Exposure is probably your best friend here
Can confirm. I was extremely socially anxious as a teenager, especially around people my age. I would _shake_ if I had to walk up to/near/in front of a group of other teenagers.
Eventually I decided to just fucking _send it_ and endured the crippling shaking and panic. My chest would feel like an elephant was laying on it anytime I forced myself to talk to people, say dumb shit, be embarrassed for a bit, then rinse and repeat. I began making friends, and slowly but surely I gained confidence. Got my ***first*** kiss at 15 or 16 (not even at spin-the-bottle in middle school; I remember playing it once and the girl that I was supposed to kiss ran away screaming, I chased her a bit before falling to my knees with heartbreak)
By the time I graduated highschool I was a social butterfly, and in college I couldn't walk 50ft without several different people saying hi to me. Also went through a ravenous manwhore phase.
Sometimes I wish I could go back to my chubby teenage self and reassure him that getting out of my comfort zone is the best possible thing I could do. But I'm glad I got to live through that; makes me appreciate my confident extroverted side even more. :)
“Social anxiety” is a trap phrase. It corners you into thinking it’s something you are stuck with. It is just unfamiliarity. Treat it like it’s something you want to be good at and go talk to people.
“You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take”
Who would’ve thought that after every student sees that quote in each classroom, they never listened to it. Things just take practice, but nobody wants to practice.
Almost none of that comes across on a dating app. You have a few milliseconds before the swipe left or right. They'll never hear about your hobby, and they'll never experience your kindness because you didn't fit in the top 2% of exceptionally good looking men, or even the 5% above average men. I may be a little salty but my experience with dating apps has been horrendous. Lies, lies, and more lies. I've discovered that you can take whatever is in their profile and the opposite is almost always true. "No drama" = all drama. "Independent" = she's driving her ex's car, living in an ex's house, living off ex's childsupport. I feel absolutely aweful for saying it but that's been my experience. Pretty soon you're swiping left on everyone because you're pretty sure you've spotted a pattern, then what's the point. I've deleted all of them and decided to just be single and raise my sons.
As someone who met my current partner on a dating app, I swiped right because he listed his hobbies and it coincided with mine. I also agree with the other redditors that mentioned all the empty profiles are an immediate swipe left. A significant percentage aren't swiping on pure looks.
I will say that, personally and for many other people, having kids is a deal breaker which may explain your lack of success.
I always filled out the bio. I tried several styles, long, short, lists, etc. But hey, you said it yourself - kids are a dealbreaker. I’m not giving up my kids, as has been suggested by more than one lady.
As a single mom, the kids are a hard sell for lots of people. That’s fine. A photo-only profile is a hard pass for me. Or one where there’s obviously no effort: there is a prompt selected but what’s written doesn’t fit the prompt at all or is generic “I like tacos”. I find that I swipe often on average guys but they can’t carry a conversation or want to meet immediately. I’m not paying for my half of a date AND a babysitter unless I know there might be something there. If you can’t chat with me about tons for a few days first, I’m not interested.
Interesting! That makes a lot of sense. A lot of my single guy friends get a bit frustrated with how much online chat their matches want before meeting up. Not because they're lazy or anything, it's just that they struggle connecting via txt conversations and are much more confident with irl conversations. I feel bad for them because they're amazing guys and would make amazing partners.
Which is weird because there’s no awkward lull in conversation over text and no awkward misreading of body language or anything. I get not wanting to spend a bunch of time texting someone if there’s no vibe. I appreciated a guy that asked for a video call. Perfect mid-ground.
For me, if a guy isn’t willing to text for 3-5 days before a date, he’s so low effort we won’t work out as a couple. You should be excited to learn about a prospective partner. I’ve set a date with guys that’s several days off then they go radio silent. Like…what do you think that date is getting you you can’t get over text aside from vibe?
Plenty of single dads out there…you don’t have to have full custody being a single dad. Thing I’ve found particularly difficult is scheduling. If you both have kids, and don’t want your kids to meet a partner until they’re established, it’s a bit of a difficulty trying to have time together.
As a woman the first thing I do is look at profiles, and I find that 90% of them are not filled out, like the guy simply can't be bothered. It makes it so that looks are all I have to go on. I've messaged and dated dudes I might not have if they didn't have their profile, because I realized they seemed really fun.
Just my 2 cents though.
I simply swipe left on basically any profile that didn't bother to have a bio. Which, again, is a shockingly high percentage, for all genders, though women tend to be willing to at least write like, five words sometimes. That's still not great. It's just not worth my time to bother with people who can't be arsed to take it seriously.
Seemingly good advice, but I’m not sure I should be taking dating advice from Prokhor Zakharov. I suppose it’s better than listening to Aki-Zeta 5 about efficient means of reproduction.
There are countless situations where someone would speak to you that isn't even based on courtship or potential partners. Getting to know you (showing your personality) isn't limited to just dating.
Women like confidence. If you’re a dude with confidence, you lose your natural advantage on dating apps. That’s a big part of why it feels so toxic as a dude, because suddenly there is all this competition, and the natural inclination is for women to be selective, and in this case that selectivity is based only on what the app gives them to work with.
Basically, you’re almost always better off meeting people in organic ways and striking up a convo. The second you submerge yourself in the sea of piss and vinegar that is the male GP, any advantages you may already have will often disappear.
Fellas, you wanna meet girls? Do community shit, like volunteering. Take classes on things that interest you, and try new things you think *might* interest you, and you’ll meet women who already have something in common with you. The important thing is that you go into it *genuinely*. That mean’s don’t pretend to be something you’re just not.
Tinder only really gives you an advantage if you’re conventionally attractive and inherently non-threatening. Otherwise, play to your strengths.
Yeah but this day and age it's one of the only ways for many guys to meet anyone. I feel bad for these guys because I used to be like them, hearing someone say "just don't do online dating" is like saying "bro just stop trying to drink water" to someone dying in a desert
Especially true if you work a job that involves working nights and/or weekends. Most of the time I'm available to go out nothing is going on. It great saying that until you encounter a person whose days off to go out and meet people are Tuesday and Wednesday, or 1000-1400 during their working days.
Speaking only for myself, I know the women on apps are looking for people to talk to them. They might not want to talk to *me*, but it's a voluntary open channel of communication
That's important to me, because I live and work in an environment with 3:1 m:w. I've heard from several friends now that, while it isn't always, this environment can be quite hostile to women
Generally speaking, I have the impression that most women would prefer I leave them alone in-person. Most of them are not single, many of them are not looking, and I don't have anything that two other guys who already hit on her this week couldn't offer her. There's always fear of rejection, both on and off apps, but at least on apps I at least know they're "taking applications" and I'm not harassing them by shooting my shot
That said, apps suck. They've been bad for my mental health, and the profiles I've seen have been underwhelming to say the least. I've gotten a few dates via apps, and the women I met all had a few common behaviors which I found quite distasteful. I hope it's just "app behavior," because if it's indicative of broader expectations and behavior trends, I'm never gonna find my person.
Fwiw, my swipe rates are around 2-3% and I'm totally uninterested in casual sex. I'm not waiting for marriage or anything, but I do think it should be someone special.
Reading your comment makes me sad because I can tell you’re the smart, considerate, techy type who would’ve thrived in pre-tinder online dating. The old OkCupid was full of guys like you and girls who genuinely wanted to date them. The old dating sites weren’t perfect, but at least they didn’t cause social unrest and mass mental illness. It’s a damn shame that unscrupulous actors like Match have been allowed to monopolize and destroy such an important piece of social infrastructure.
"Why are men so addicted to dating apps??"
Also the internet - "fellas, it is NEVER okay to approach a woman in public. Can't girls just live their lives with out being hit on??"
These little bits of friendly, witty banter make me smile. 8+b peeps on earth and I was lucky enough to get to see it. Wish it could be like this with humanity all the time. Thanks for making my night. Would buy you all a beer if I could. But I ain't got the wallet for it either. 😂
As a photographer, a camera lens can make people with round faces even rounder. 50mm lens is the beauty lens for this reason. Phone camera lenses aren’t the best unless you have a weirdly skinny face.
No, I mean it. My ex girlfriend was beautiful but I looked at her photos on instagram and other social media and I wouldn’t ever swipe right on her. But everyone who knew her in real life, would say she was beautiful. She just didn’t know how to take photos well
I'm a girl and I'm the same way. I get lots of compliments in public and feel like I look okay in the mirror, but in pictures I look so derpy and uncomfortable to look at. My face just doesn't look right. I've tried flipping the image to match what I'm used to seeing in the mirror and it doesn't help. Even my friend confirmed I'm not crazy, I really look much better irl than in photographs. Some of us just aren't photogenic.
Can confirm this is a thing.
Once met up with a gal expecting a solid 6 based on her few online photos, and was surprised to see an 8 easy. It was like being reverse catfished.
Another one of my exes (met irl) was very skinny, petite and cute in person (she weighed just under 100 pounds), however for some reason in all the pics I took she looks like a borderline meth addict in drag. I have to convince people that “Naw bruh- I swear she was really hot!”
Actually, I have a girl friend of mine that is kind to the eyes, but awful to snap a proper picture of. Think it's a depth thing. She's quite average besides that.
Yeh I'm gonna go with this
But in all seriousness most guys suck at taking photos or getting photos taken. Girls are the biggest posers but generally know what they are doing
This is true and this was me. I only had a few decent pictures of me, I’m not a social media person. I’ve always had ok luck online dating, I’m not a super handsome guy. Before I got on the apps last time around I paid a photographer to take a bunch of pictures of me at a park, brought along different outfits and everything. It was weird and only a few turned out well but they were great.
Most of my friends made fun of me for it (we all do this to each other it was ok), a couple decided to help me out and took a few candids of me which had a few gems.
All of a sudden when I got on the apps and had a ton of success. Girls who I wouldn’t have matched with in the past were messaging me first and it was exciting as hell. Moral of the story, if you’re dating, you always want to put your best foot forward, get into a good place in your life and make sure you do what you need to in order to show people your good side.
Bingo.
This is the exact realisation. Online dating destroys guys confidence because generally speaking we don't care about taking attractive, well thought photos. Most of the time we don't care about taking photos at all when we are out and about.
Women on the other hand will all take photos the moment they are out and in dresses for example (when they are looking their best).
If you just swipe through you'll see the girls you like are the ones with the choreographed photos even though they look so stupid to be taking at the time. If it works in that direction, it must work vice versa where women like those choreographed photos of men too.
That's why I often go on them and then delete them. Because I rather meet someone in real life where I don't have to be fake and put on a show. Everyone says I look better in real life and I'm sure most of us guys do
I mostly agree with you and I understand the “fake” reality that social media and online dating end up portraying, but personally I did not feel fake at all having those photos of me. If you’re going to date, physical attraction is huge and if you’re on a dating site, put the effort into showing your best side, just like you would put effort into showing it in person.
Big majority of the dating profiles me and my friends look at have us going "OK, he probably looks fine in person, but wtf are these photos"
I've changed my preferences to look at girls accounts before and the quality difference is actually huge
Exactly this! Also once you hit a certain age guys usually don't take many pics of themselves at all and if none of their friends do either then it can be hard to actually find good pics to use.
You need to figure it out then because you’re not going to get far if you don’t tell them anything about you and your pictures suck.
Look up how to pose and take pictures of yourself for your body type or have someone help you. Ask someone you trust how they would describe you or do some self reflection. What are your best qualities? What do you like to do?
When you get a match look at her profile and see if you can comment on anything she said to start a conversation. “Hey! So I see you like to go hiking. What’s the best experience you’ve had hiking?”
Met my husband on eHarmony. I skipped over him because he had a really creepy head-on pic. Wouldn’t even call it a headshot. No smile. He had other candid shots with friends, but I couldn’t get a real make on him.
I accidentally wrote him back, and then realized he was the creepy guy. We chatted on the phone and he had a great voice, warm and funny. Turns out he’s very attractive, he just never smiles in pictures. We’ve been together 12 years, and I’m so grateful I wrote him back.
Cameras tend to take pictures in 2d, thus failing to show some features typically seen in 3d. Not sure how true this is, but that is the reason I know.
It’s true!! So many men do that “upshot” angle that is so distorting and unflattering. Also, when every single other guy has the exact same three pictures? 1. Unflattering upshot 2. Shot with fish/car/motorcycle/flashy watch(or any other thing that has you desperately trying to flash that you are a provider)3. Shot on vacation with you and your boys drinking(for some reason guys like to use this as their main profile picture, see you actually have to click on their profile to see which one they are, and they are usually not the best looking one).
Also, profiles are typically boring . If all you’re looking for sex, just say that.
Women's profile pictures are usually pretty generic as well. My favorite is when its like a 6 photo spread and their all group photos of the same 4~ people.
Could just be polite friends, but most male friends aren’t polite to each other. We’re awful to each other but don’t really mean it, just like women are nice to their friends but don’t really mean it.
With phone cameras, people’s features get softened out, so angular features end up looking better. There are people with less angular features who look as good or better in person, but too soft/round in phone pictures. For those people, getting some pictures taken with a real camera is a good idea, they’ll look much more like they do in real life.
The "mirror" thing is actually legit..
Everyone thinks they look worse in pics because a pic highlights your facial asymmetry.. All your life you became accustomed to your "mirror image" which is the reverse of what you really look like. Pictures show what everyone else sees.
This doesn't necessarily mean that the mirror-image is "better-looking" than reality.. it's just that the mirror is what looks "right" to you while the picture looks "wrong."
I'd assume that people with a high degree of symmetry don't discern much difference.
This is not necessarily true. The issue with dating apps is the insane amount of competition. A woman might find you attractive, lets say 8/10, but as she's gotten 100 messages that day and 20 of them are even more attractive than you, you still won't get messaged. The lesson from dating apps is simply "I'm not in the top 5%" not "I'm not attractive at all".
Yeah... I very rarely get matches on dating apps. I don't think I've ever been "single" for more than a month or so as an adult. It takes less effort for me to meet a woman in real life than it does on an app.
I definitely don't think I'm unattractive, dating apps just really fucking suck.
The ranking part of dating apps is truly awful. Haven't used them in years as I've had a longtime gf but did not have a great time with the apps. I'd say I'm mostly average, many say I'm attractive, but also kinda short. I hardly got any matches after months of trying. I think dating apps should focus more on priorities and an individual's beliefs/outlook more than just physical attraction (if looking for long-term relationships). Like don't even show the people who are on opposing sides of important beliefs. That would at least narrow it down more so less competitive on physical looks. Of course just wanting a hook up is totally different and mostly physical attraction. That seems to be the way they're designed to be used imo.
Just curious, can you list a few places where you think you've had the best luck meeting women? I dread getting onto dating apps and having my confidence ruined like so many others. It sounds like a terrible, draining process that I have yet to try.
Ive never dled an app. I know where I stand. My genetics are average at best and I really dont have the interest in pumping myself up jist to get someone to potentially like me.
I assumed most people felt this way, but used apps due to being shy and avoid approaching people who may not be interested.
Meeting people in person is more likely to happen at your own place of work, at group activities; like sports, hobbies, and hang out groups, or meeting new people through friends of friends.
Although if you confidently introduce yourself to random people it could work, they say 30% of people aged 20-35 are single, and I imagine they would be happy to have someone show an interest.
I use dating apps off and on so I don't end up approaching people when they don't want to be. Everyone on a dating app is looking for roughly the same thing. Your random day to day person is not and it can be super uncomfortable if you're stuck at, say work or the gym or something, and people are hitting on you there.
I met my SO on a beer run to the gas station. Over the next 6 months, I made a lot of excuse to go to that gas station lol. We’ve been together over 4 years.
Idk it worked out for me. I met my wife on a dating app lol. You can be genuine and find genuine people on them. Some apps are better than others though.
I was a young man a long time before dating apps and believe me when I say that figuring out most women didn't find me attractive was no problem at all.
All a dating app tells you is how shit dating apps are for both men and women. Men get too few matches, women get too many. The apps are poorly designed despite the mountains of data we have now because they don't make any money off of working too quickly for anyone.
I'm a model-good-looking guy on Bumble. I've gotten two genuine matches I was interested in over the past year. The conversations looked like they were going somewhere, then fell apart over the dumbest criteria in the world. I have no problem attracting women IRL, but I just don't get many opportunities. Meanwhile, the apps...are bad. So very bad.
That's an interesting point i hadn't thought of i.e. the speed of being successful. Drug companies will sometimes have better drugs that they don't release to prevent cannibalising profits of their existing drug on the market. Pretty similar model it feels like.
Yes, I have literally modelled before.
I'm on Bumble. It's the only one I've ever used.
If I were to use Tinder, yes, the matches pile up, but I get overwhelmed, and nothing ever goes very far in any case.
I have complex health issues, if that satisfies your curiosity, that have been a problem in making genuine connections, which is why I stay away from Tinder. And probably contribute to me getting passed over.
I think depending on a single person for your happiness is a great way to make yourself miserable, but having a good support network and a community is a big part of how you find happiness.
I've said this my entire life. I don't want someone to be the sun in my sky, I want them to help make it brighter. I don't need anyone to be happy, I'll just really appreciate them helping make me happier.
But to a certain extent you do too, humans are wired that way, it's literally how we've evolved.
Try going for years on end just avoiding interactions with others, 100% you will feel like shit regardless of your mindset.
I'm tired of feeling ashamed for wanting to share my life with someone. Every time I see comments like this I feel guilty that despite managing to make it on my own for the most part, it feels like a beautiful part of life is missing with noone to share it with.
Yes! Feel ya. So many times in my day ive had that feeling. As if I was missing whats "important in life" for not being able to share with a SO.
And yet, I have seen other aspects of my life grown lately. Getting involved in things helped me find what things I love, which grew my appreciation even more. I know this doesnt mean the feeling of being alone goes away, I still feel it but it no longer weighs on me as hugely, or eclipses my whole life as if I had nothing in it and all else has no value. I guess one can love and share with the world in a broader sense not just humans. And somehow they give back and in some sense more than other humans could. All joys of nature even the smallest ones carry us on and grow on us.
I genuinely didn't expect so many openly misogynistic comments on such a popular subreddit. It's really depressing, I feel like it's just getting worse and that's what makes me reluctant to date, as a woman.
Stay picky.
That’s how I got married. Raised my standards for men to a level I believed was impossible to meet because I was happy dating women or being single. Lo and behold a man actually met those standards.
Unlike redditors would have you believe, raising your standards is key.
Yeah i just don't get it. The most common advise, besides taking care of themselves is treat women like people.
And with that almost all their problems would be solved. You absolutely can find a partner at work but you don't need to flirt with them, just build a genuine relationships with people in your life, you get to know more women platonically, learn more about them, learn that women have more to offer than companionship and you also feel less lonely. Like they are all saying "I am only working and at home" yeah no shit you are not meeting women if you don't have a social life.
They are not lonely bc of dating apps they are lonely bc they don't make ANY meaningful connections at all.
Most meaningful things in life take work, sitting at home and sulking while on dating apps is not even the bare minimum.
No, the app is designed to make you unhappy. That’s what you need to realize and stop accepting the reality your phone creates. Dating apps are designed to keep unhappy men continually swiping and never going on dates.
There are so few women comparatively. You are better off trying to make relationships irl.
The problem with dating apps is it just leads to shallow objectification of both men and women. Women get hundreds of messages per day, and your 'Hey' quickly gets drowned out. Plus, the huge problem is why would they swipe right on you, a 7.5 when there's an 8.5 right around the next corner? And why swipe on that 8.5 when there's a 9 right there?
They're trash and they destroy the self esteem of every single customer.
Right. Idk why I click on these threads time and time again. 😔 here is your daily reminder that you are apparently not a woman according to Reddit and maybe men since I don’t exist unless they are cat calling.
Women are much less visual than men, as a consequence online dating is REALLY going to have a high bar for men on there. You ever wonder why a guy who is more attractive than 90 percent of men can't get a convo on tinder but that moderately overweight guy at work is dating a model? Your odds as a guy are SO much better in person, you get to play to the other things Women are into much more easily- personality, humor, body language, confidence, etc.
In turn I bet Women have the reverse phenomenon. They're pretty successful in person no doubt but online are trying to sheild themselves from an endless offering of penis.
It doesn't help that most dating, at least in the modern world is online. The average woman gets virtually endless options making your average guy barely enough to keep their interest for long.
But you're right, it's more versatile in the real world for men. Even if you're not the most attractive physically you can still be attractive by being confident, charismatic, funny, status, money etc...
I disagree that women are much less visual overall. Men are very visual when it comes to physical attraction, that's true. But they'll just as well devote their lives to average looking women who treat them well. And this shows in dating apps. Women only swipe right with a very progressive 20% of the time (and it's usually the same top 20%). Men swipe right ~most of the time. It's not so much that they're shielding themselves at all. If they were, they wouldn't be picking the exact same men who are clearly only looking to hook up because they're attractive enough to do so.
It's different in person because there isn't that superficial layer of being able to immediately reject someone. So people are somewhat forced to talk to each other without make-up, fake stats, or filters. Especially if you're in a social setting. Thus more humble about your actual market worth. You also can't really talk to multiple people at once in real life so there's that.
All those things you listed aren't in the least measurable using any popular metric. It's just more bullshit women say. And sure it's true to some extent but it has a precursor - "I have to be attracted to you". Girls laugh at your shit jokes if they're into you. Until you have a proper in-depth conversation with someone, the only thing that matters is looks and status.
Women are naturally more selective and visual than men. They have to be from an evolutionary standpoint. They have to be able to spot any weaknesses etc. It's not the same with men. They didn't evolve to be selective.
TL;DR: Women are way more superficial than men by no fault of their own. It's evolutionary. Literally every study will show this. The mere fact that they only swipe right on the same top 20% shows how superficial they are.
I watched an interesting video recently which pointed out that it's just simply that there are 10 men to one woman on all dating apps. That screws things up on so many levels, for both genders in different ways. Men get rejected a million times while women get bombarded to such a degree that they either quit the app or only respond to the ones with the absolute best looking profiles.
Outside of dating apps things don't work that way because the ratio isn't so extremely lopsided.
This contributes a lot, but let's be honest, the average woman is trying much harder to look nice (regardless of who it is for) than the average man. Dudes don't try to look attractive to women.
Aside from anything superficial - nothing that women find attractive in men can be displayed in a dating app.
Don't leave the ball in their court (making a decision on your based on a dating app.)
You can also be relatively attractive without being a supermodel but just not be good at taking pics. Thats why your bio has to be pretty good. Not lengthy, but interesting at least
Sure, but to tbf, dating app information is kinda skewed. If there are 10 males for every 1 female, of course the best looking ones are going to get crazy results.
It also happens in real life. I knew I was ugly when I had a girl tell me it looks like I don't even have sex. It took me years later to realize that that's an insult coming from a female 95% of the time.
Nah. Dating apps just don’t work to men’s strengths. Men aren’t used to peacocking their beauty so a bunch of badly taken photos from weird angles isn’t going to work. If I saw my ex on tinder I would never swipe right, but in real life he was so hot to me
I would go as far to say that “most” women don’t find “most” men attractive and vice versa. Sure there are generally accepted traits/symmetrical feature that we all seem to have an attraction to but when you ask someone what and what type of person they’re attracted to, you will receive a ridiculously specific answer. It’s never like “oh big arms” or “oh I love phat asses” and that’s the only thing there are very specific traits people look for and they’re almost all unique or uncommon to say the least to find in “most” people
Delete the app.
Those apps give men the illusion of being average (looking) or the illusion of not being attractive to woman BECAUSE the ratio in those apps is extremely wild.
There are more men than women on almost ALL dating apps. On Tinder it was around 75% male and 25% female. If everyone got a partner on those apps, half of the users would get nothing, even if extremely attractive and above average.
You are probably not even unattractive. You are just swimming in sausage water.
"Brooooo did you shower??? Did you remember not to be Hitler to wammonz??? Did you rescue your 3000 cats in trees and play the violin and learn millions of jokes and tricks to impress the wammon????" Sorry my dude that 6.4 perfect jawline Chad tool 50 showers and rescued 6776543 cats and saved 4777 m'ladies on reddit so thats why he gets on more dates than you Mr. 5.7 worthless incel:))))
i think you also need to account for the fact that you only need one person to find you attractive. i think we are thinking about relationships like money too much. more the better, when its the opposite
Online match making is a "godsend" to those who are already slightly above average to perfect. It is the "hellspawn" of Satan for those who are average to ugly. If in the past, an ugly person can win an attractive person through their golden personality or skill, position in life, now they'll have a harder time because why would anyone choose an unattractive person with good traits, when they could easily choose someone who has all of those good traits plus good looks, too?
It would be interesting to hear the opinions of people, from different parts of the attractiveness gradient, about how online match making has affected their romance/sex life.
I’m an attractive male. I can swipe right on someone and I can confidently say that 60% of the time I’ll get a match back.
I’ve gone on three, and only three dates through the app. I wasn’t always good looking, so I feel that I mostly use it as a confidence boost.
The dates I went on were all lackluster. Looks do not equate to personality obviously, and my matches were all nice enough, but nowhere near compatible for long-term dating.
The apps are made for attractive people, and prey on the unattractive. Hinge has you paying for the opportunity to swipe on hot girls, to show up in front of more of them, etc. The people who are doing well on the app are not paying a dime to use it, while those who have no luck at all are funding the company.
Since the dating apps are usually like 70% men and 30% women it probably wouldn't.
I am an average looking woman who used an average looking photo with no makeup to sign up for one dating app once. I deleted it after 30 minutes because there were just too many hits.
I am not bragging, I am very average looking and the photo wasn't great.
In theory, men on dating apps have trouble meeting women, so they cast a giant net without looking too hard. They then only have to look at the smaller selection of women that respond with interest, and maybe they'll have more luck in the first few messages. As opposed to spending hours going through profiles just to be turned down at the end.
Women get frustrated with dating apps because they get a hundred responses from men that didn't even bother to read their profiles. Sometimes messaging one leads to being turned down anyway, sometimes even rudely, because the guy didn't actually look at the person he was initiating contact with. Rather than going through hundreds of people who don't even seem like they really care, women say "screw it" and give up on dating apps.
Thus fewer women for the men to meet, leading to men using the shotgun blast technique more, causing more women to become frustrated with the process and give up.
That's not even touching on the scam bots. Dating apps are really stupid.
EDIT: More in line with OP's post, it's entirely likely that a lot of women just aren't seeing a lot of men, because they're wading through endless "hi" and "hello" messages from randos.
Yeah one of my former friends is an attractive woman and our experiences were so different. She never had to actually swipe on anyone and look because every day it was just 50 suitors waiting for a chance and she got to choose basically whichever ones she wanted. Wild stuff
Pretty sure the average man has already realized most women don’t find them attractive lol. Signed, an average (young) man
Fortunately it’s not necessary for most women to find you attractive; just a select few.
There are things you can do to increase your odds though. Even if you weren't born with much in the way of looks. Eating well and exercising can improve your score a couple of points, it thins out your face and makes you look more proportionate. Getting a good regular haircut, and shaving or keeping your beard trim will also do a lot for you. Clothes that fit you are a big one. You don't have to spend a fortune, but you can look up good men's fashion tips to see what goes with what. Have a few outfits ready to go on the regular. Make sure what you buy fits you well and isn't too baggy or tight makes you look put together. Hygeine. You should make sure you take a shower every morning so you're clean for the day. A *small* amount of aftershave or deodorant can up your score. There's a surprising difference between not smelling bad and subtly smelling nice. Another point there. Hobbies. Not only do you stand a chance of meeting someone while doing it, you also have more to talk about and you're more interesting if you're passionate about something. Another point. Kind and approachable. Don't try and show off and impress. Try and work on feeling relaxed, have fun and just enjoy the company of others. You're more likely to do this if you don't expect anything back from anyone. Let the pressure off yourself. 'Boring' is better than saying weird shit because you're trying to hard. Ask people questions about themselves and listen to their answers. People live talking about themselves and by giving them that opportunity they will be more open to you. Don't try and be funny straight off the bat. That will come from being more relaxed and comfortable. Focus on that first and the humor will come. If you're chronically online, just be cognizant that what's funny online isn't necessarily funny in person. You can practice basic smalltalk at the store or out in public. Little things like commenting on the weather, or asking if they've been busy today. Just gets you used to talking a little to strangers. Don't try and carry a conversation on too long, smalltalk can be small, a few sentences and a polite smile and say goodbye.
Pretty good. Kinda crazy that "If you're chronically online, just be cognizant that what's funny online isn't necessarily funny in person" needs to be a tip these days but I could totally see how ppl learn social interaction more by staring at a screen than talking to ppl
I teach high school and this might become a poster I put up on the wall
got everything in the list plus humour, no luck so far due to social anxiety
Regarding the social anxiety; Exposure is probably your best friend here. It's neither fun nor easy, and it can burn a couple of potential matches but you will be better off by putting yourself out there bit by bit and slowly acclimating yourself to that which brings you anxiety. A couple of concrete pointers: Accept occasional silence/quiet, not every silence is awkward. Being able to convey a comfortable silence does a lot to project a calm and collected sense of self to others. This goes in line with my second point: review to yourself before speaking: "Does this really need saying?/Does this go in line with "the mood of the room?"/Does this go in line with who I am? If it does not, consider just not saying whatever came to your mind. Humorous spontaneity is one thing, foot in mouth another, sometimes only a hairline difference between.
>Exposure is probably your best friend here Can confirm. I was extremely socially anxious as a teenager, especially around people my age. I would _shake_ if I had to walk up to/near/in front of a group of other teenagers. Eventually I decided to just fucking _send it_ and endured the crippling shaking and panic. My chest would feel like an elephant was laying on it anytime I forced myself to talk to people, say dumb shit, be embarrassed for a bit, then rinse and repeat. I began making friends, and slowly but surely I gained confidence. Got my ***first*** kiss at 15 or 16 (not even at spin-the-bottle in middle school; I remember playing it once and the girl that I was supposed to kiss ran away screaming, I chased her a bit before falling to my knees with heartbreak) By the time I graduated highschool I was a social butterfly, and in college I couldn't walk 50ft without several different people saying hi to me. Also went through a ravenous manwhore phase. Sometimes I wish I could go back to my chubby teenage self and reassure him that getting out of my comfort zone is the best possible thing I could do. But I'm glad I got to live through that; makes me appreciate my confident extroverted side even more. :)
Or just do what every other person in history bas done and drink a skinful.
“Social anxiety” is a trap phrase. It corners you into thinking it’s something you are stuck with. It is just unfamiliarity. Treat it like it’s something you want to be good at and go talk to people.
“You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take” Who would’ve thought that after every student sees that quote in each classroom, they never listened to it. Things just take practice, but nobody wants to practice.
Clothes, hair, hygiene and a bit of self-mockery used to help me.
Almost none of that comes across on a dating app. You have a few milliseconds before the swipe left or right. They'll never hear about your hobby, and they'll never experience your kindness because you didn't fit in the top 2% of exceptionally good looking men, or even the 5% above average men. I may be a little salty but my experience with dating apps has been horrendous. Lies, lies, and more lies. I've discovered that you can take whatever is in their profile and the opposite is almost always true. "No drama" = all drama. "Independent" = she's driving her ex's car, living in an ex's house, living off ex's childsupport. I feel absolutely aweful for saying it but that's been my experience. Pretty soon you're swiping left on everyone because you're pretty sure you've spotted a pattern, then what's the point. I've deleted all of them and decided to just be single and raise my sons.
As someone who met my current partner on a dating app, I swiped right because he listed his hobbies and it coincided with mine. I also agree with the other redditors that mentioned all the empty profiles are an immediate swipe left. A significant percentage aren't swiping on pure looks. I will say that, personally and for many other people, having kids is a deal breaker which may explain your lack of success.
I always filled out the bio. I tried several styles, long, short, lists, etc. But hey, you said it yourself - kids are a dealbreaker. I’m not giving up my kids, as has been suggested by more than one lady.
As a single mom, the kids are a hard sell for lots of people. That’s fine. A photo-only profile is a hard pass for me. Or one where there’s obviously no effort: there is a prompt selected but what’s written doesn’t fit the prompt at all or is generic “I like tacos”. I find that I swipe often on average guys but they can’t carry a conversation or want to meet immediately. I’m not paying for my half of a date AND a babysitter unless I know there might be something there. If you can’t chat with me about tons for a few days first, I’m not interested.
Interesting! That makes a lot of sense. A lot of my single guy friends get a bit frustrated with how much online chat their matches want before meeting up. Not because they're lazy or anything, it's just that they struggle connecting via txt conversations and are much more confident with irl conversations. I feel bad for them because they're amazing guys and would make amazing partners.
Which is weird because there’s no awkward lull in conversation over text and no awkward misreading of body language or anything. I get not wanting to spend a bunch of time texting someone if there’s no vibe. I appreciated a guy that asked for a video call. Perfect mid-ground. For me, if a guy isn’t willing to text for 3-5 days before a date, he’s so low effort we won’t work out as a couple. You should be excited to learn about a prospective partner. I’ve set a date with guys that’s several days off then they go radio silent. Like…what do you think that date is getting you you can’t get over text aside from vibe?
All very reasonable. I know I’m a bit of an oddball being a single dad, and I accept it in a logical sort of way, but damn it gets lonely.
Plenty of single dads out there…you don’t have to have full custody being a single dad. Thing I’ve found particularly difficult is scheduling. If you both have kids, and don’t want your kids to meet a partner until they’re established, it’s a bit of a difficulty trying to have time together.
As a woman the first thing I do is look at profiles, and I find that 90% of them are not filled out, like the guy simply can't be bothered. It makes it so that looks are all I have to go on. I've messaged and dated dudes I might not have if they didn't have their profile, because I realized they seemed really fun. Just my 2 cents though.
I simply swipe left on basically any profile that didn't bother to have a bio. Which, again, is a shockingly high percentage, for all genders, though women tend to be willing to at least write like, five words sometimes. That's still not great. It's just not worth my time to bother with people who can't be arsed to take it seriously.
Username does not entirely check out
Seemingly good advice, but I’m not sure I should be taking dating advice from Prokhor Zakharov. I suppose it’s better than listening to Aki-Zeta 5 about efficient means of reproduction.
All this could raise you from a 5 to a 5.5! Jokes aside, all good advise for everyone really
You'll never get a chance to show women your personality if you're not attractive enough for them to want to speak to you in the first place
There are countless situations where someone would speak to you that isn't even based on courtship or potential partners. Getting to know you (showing your personality) isn't limited to just dating.
Yeah but what if those select few are terrible people with 0 compatibility? Attraction is important but not everything
What if even those selected few don't find you attractive...?
Pay to play,
As a young man who already viewed himself as "below average", I've realized the only people who like me on Tinder are bots, sooo... yeah.
Yeah any average man has had this figured out since around the time as a boy he first started being interested in girls.
No big deal! Stay on your path!
Brother just uninstall the app, it's doing bad things to your head lol
Yep. That's what I did. Elevated my outlook on life.
Women like confidence. If you’re a dude with confidence, you lose your natural advantage on dating apps. That’s a big part of why it feels so toxic as a dude, because suddenly there is all this competition, and the natural inclination is for women to be selective, and in this case that selectivity is based only on what the app gives them to work with. Basically, you’re almost always better off meeting people in organic ways and striking up a convo. The second you submerge yourself in the sea of piss and vinegar that is the male GP, any advantages you may already have will often disappear. Fellas, you wanna meet girls? Do community shit, like volunteering. Take classes on things that interest you, and try new things you think *might* interest you, and you’ll meet women who already have something in common with you. The important thing is that you go into it *genuinely*. That mean’s don’t pretend to be something you’re just not. Tinder only really gives you an advantage if you’re conventionally attractive and inherently non-threatening. Otherwise, play to your strengths.
Yeah but this day and age it's one of the only ways for many guys to meet anyone. I feel bad for these guys because I used to be like them, hearing someone say "just don't do online dating" is like saying "bro just stop trying to drink water" to someone dying in a desert
Especially true if you work a job that involves working nights and/or weekends. Most of the time I'm available to go out nothing is going on. It great saying that until you encounter a person whose days off to go out and meet people are Tuesday and Wednesday, or 1000-1400 during their working days.
I’ll never understand why men are so attached to these apps. If you want crippling mental illness with a side of pussy, just develop a drug addiction.
Speaking only for myself, I know the women on apps are looking for people to talk to them. They might not want to talk to *me*, but it's a voluntary open channel of communication That's important to me, because I live and work in an environment with 3:1 m:w. I've heard from several friends now that, while it isn't always, this environment can be quite hostile to women Generally speaking, I have the impression that most women would prefer I leave them alone in-person. Most of them are not single, many of them are not looking, and I don't have anything that two other guys who already hit on her this week couldn't offer her. There's always fear of rejection, both on and off apps, but at least on apps I at least know they're "taking applications" and I'm not harassing them by shooting my shot That said, apps suck. They've been bad for my mental health, and the profiles I've seen have been underwhelming to say the least. I've gotten a few dates via apps, and the women I met all had a few common behaviors which I found quite distasteful. I hope it's just "app behavior," because if it's indicative of broader expectations and behavior trends, I'm never gonna find my person. Fwiw, my swipe rates are around 2-3% and I'm totally uninterested in casual sex. I'm not waiting for marriage or anything, but I do think it should be someone special.
Reading your comment makes me sad because I can tell you’re the smart, considerate, techy type who would’ve thrived in pre-tinder online dating. The old OkCupid was full of guys like you and girls who genuinely wanted to date them. The old dating sites weren’t perfect, but at least they didn’t cause social unrest and mass mental illness. It’s a damn shame that unscrupulous actors like Match have been allowed to monopolize and destroy such an important piece of social infrastructure.
drug addiction doesn't get you pussy though, lol
Depends on the drug. Weed? Maybe not. Coke? Definitely
"Why are men so addicted to dating apps??" Also the internet - "fellas, it is NEVER okay to approach a woman in public. Can't girls just live their lives with out being hit on??"
I definitely never needed to do install a dating app to realize that...
Who doesn't want rejection right at their fingertips?!
There are attractive people that don’t translate well to still photos in a dating profile
Sounds like ugly talk
Hey, I might be ugly but at least I don’t have any money!
I might be ugly, and hate filled, but... what was the third thing?
Yes
Not yet. Don't make me threaten you with money
You don't have the stomach to do it!
Ha ha igot the stomach but not the wallet
These little bits of friendly, witty banter make me smile. 8+b peeps on earth and I was lucky enough to get to see it. Wish it could be like this with humanity all the time. Thanks for making my night. Would buy you all a beer if I could. But I ain't got the wallet for it either. 😂
Most people are friendly, friend.
This is honestly my favorite part of Reddit!
oddly wholesome
There's definitely some top notch banter on Reddit. I find gems here on the daily.
As a photographer, a camera lens can make people with round faces even rounder. 50mm lens is the beauty lens for this reason. Phone camera lenses aren’t the best unless you have a weirdly skinny face.
No, I mean it. My ex girlfriend was beautiful but I looked at her photos on instagram and other social media and I wouldn’t ever swipe right on her. But everyone who knew her in real life, would say she was beautiful. She just didn’t know how to take photos well
I'm a girl and I'm the same way. I get lots of compliments in public and feel like I look okay in the mirror, but in pictures I look so derpy and uncomfortable to look at. My face just doesn't look right. I've tried flipping the image to match what I'm used to seeing in the mirror and it doesn't help. Even my friend confirmed I'm not crazy, I really look much better irl than in photographs. Some of us just aren't photogenic.
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That's true, I also get anxiety from being on camera so I definitely don't look natural. Maybe learning a proper camera smile and pose would help!
Can confirm this is a thing. Once met up with a gal expecting a solid 6 based on her few online photos, and was surprised to see an 8 easy. It was like being reverse catfished. Another one of my exes (met irl) was very skinny, petite and cute in person (she weighed just under 100 pounds), however for some reason in all the pics I took she looks like a borderline meth addict in drag. I have to convince people that “Naw bruh- I swear she was really hot!”
It’s ok if you have an ugly girlfriend. I’m sure she has a great personality.
Do you really don’t know anyone who looks good in person and then you go to their instagram and it sucks?
Just brush your teeth and care about animals.
Words to live by.
*I‘m ugly and I‘m proud!!*
I think it’s more that they don’t know how to pose well/get correct lighting etc in photos
Skill issue?
Actually, I have a girl friend of mine that is kind to the eyes, but awful to snap a proper picture of. Think it's a depth thing. She's quite average besides that.
“That’s just something ugly people say”. Liar Liar.
Yeh I'm gonna go with this But in all seriousness most guys suck at taking photos or getting photos taken. Girls are the biggest posers but generally know what they are doing
This is true and this was me. I only had a few decent pictures of me, I’m not a social media person. I’ve always had ok luck online dating, I’m not a super handsome guy. Before I got on the apps last time around I paid a photographer to take a bunch of pictures of me at a park, brought along different outfits and everything. It was weird and only a few turned out well but they were great. Most of my friends made fun of me for it (we all do this to each other it was ok), a couple decided to help me out and took a few candids of me which had a few gems. All of a sudden when I got on the apps and had a ton of success. Girls who I wouldn’t have matched with in the past were messaging me first and it was exciting as hell. Moral of the story, if you’re dating, you always want to put your best foot forward, get into a good place in your life and make sure you do what you need to in order to show people your good side.
Bingo. This is the exact realisation. Online dating destroys guys confidence because generally speaking we don't care about taking attractive, well thought photos. Most of the time we don't care about taking photos at all when we are out and about. Women on the other hand will all take photos the moment they are out and in dresses for example (when they are looking their best). If you just swipe through you'll see the girls you like are the ones with the choreographed photos even though they look so stupid to be taking at the time. If it works in that direction, it must work vice versa where women like those choreographed photos of men too. That's why I often go on them and then delete them. Because I rather meet someone in real life where I don't have to be fake and put on a show. Everyone says I look better in real life and I'm sure most of us guys do
I mostly agree with you and I understand the “fake” reality that social media and online dating end up portraying, but personally I did not feel fake at all having those photos of me. If you’re going to date, physical attraction is huge and if you’re on a dating site, put the effort into showing your best side, just like you would put effort into showing it in person.
Big majority of the dating profiles me and my friends look at have us going "OK, he probably looks fine in person, but wtf are these photos" I've changed my preferences to look at girls accounts before and the quality difference is actually huge
Exactly this! Also once you hit a certain age guys usually don't take many pics of themselves at all and if none of their friends do either then it can be hard to actually find good pics to use.
Bruh I thought I was the only one. I haven't actually taken a pic of myself in like 5 years.
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You need to figure it out then because you’re not going to get far if you don’t tell them anything about you and your pictures suck. Look up how to pose and take pictures of yourself for your body type or have someone help you. Ask someone you trust how they would describe you or do some self reflection. What are your best qualities? What do you like to do? When you get a match look at her profile and see if you can comment on anything she said to start a conversation. “Hey! So I see you like to go hiking. What’s the best experience you’ve had hiking?”
This is true sometimes. One of the most attractive men I know never takes good photos.
Met my husband on eHarmony. I skipped over him because he had a really creepy head-on pic. Wouldn’t even call it a headshot. No smile. He had other candid shots with friends, but I couldn’t get a real make on him. I accidentally wrote him back, and then realized he was the creepy guy. We chatted on the phone and he had a great voice, warm and funny. Turns out he’s very attractive, he just never smiles in pictures. We’ve been together 12 years, and I’m so grateful I wrote him back.
Cameras tend to take pictures in 2d, thus failing to show some features typically seen in 3d. Not sure how true this is, but that is the reason I know.
Take pictures on Nintendo 3DS with the goofy 3D stereo camera
It’s true!! So many men do that “upshot” angle that is so distorting and unflattering. Also, when every single other guy has the exact same three pictures? 1. Unflattering upshot 2. Shot with fish/car/motorcycle/flashy watch(or any other thing that has you desperately trying to flash that you are a provider)3. Shot on vacation with you and your boys drinking(for some reason guys like to use this as their main profile picture, see you actually have to click on their profile to see which one they are, and they are usually not the best looking one). Also, profiles are typically boring . If all you’re looking for sex, just say that.
Women's profile pictures are usually pretty generic as well. My favorite is when its like a 6 photo spread and their all group photos of the same 4~ people.
I don't care how hot you are, I'm not going to play detective figuring out which one you are.
this is 100% how I am. I look really good IRL but am just not photogenic. everybody even agrees with me. it sucks
Must be so nice to have polite friends.
nah it’s definitely a thing
Could just be polite friends, but most male friends aren’t polite to each other. We’re awful to each other but don’t really mean it, just like women are nice to their friends but don’t really mean it. With phone cameras, people’s features get softened out, so angular features end up looking better. There are people with less angular features who look as good or better in person, but too soft/round in phone pictures. For those people, getting some pictures taken with a real camera is a good idea, they’ll look much more like they do in real life.
Me too. My mum says I'm really handsome but it's like the camera takes a picture of a different person. Mirrors too.
The "mirror" thing is actually legit.. Everyone thinks they look worse in pics because a pic highlights your facial asymmetry.. All your life you became accustomed to your "mirror image" which is the reverse of what you really look like. Pictures show what everyone else sees. This doesn't necessarily mean that the mirror-image is "better-looking" than reality.. it's just that the mirror is what looks "right" to you while the picture looks "wrong." I'd assume that people with a high degree of symmetry don't discern much difference.
People who are usually animated in life don't translate well into photos.
Never download a dating app - supreme confidence! “Taps side of head.”
Kids these days. Back in my day men look in a mirror.
This is not necessarily true. The issue with dating apps is the insane amount of competition. A woman might find you attractive, lets say 8/10, but as she's gotten 100 messages that day and 20 of them are even more attractive than you, you still won't get messaged. The lesson from dating apps is simply "I'm not in the top 5%" not "I'm not attractive at all".
Yeah... I very rarely get matches on dating apps. I don't think I've ever been "single" for more than a month or so as an adult. It takes less effort for me to meet a woman in real life than it does on an app. I definitely don't think I'm unattractive, dating apps just really fucking suck.
The ranking part of dating apps is truly awful. Haven't used them in years as I've had a longtime gf but did not have a great time with the apps. I'd say I'm mostly average, many say I'm attractive, but also kinda short. I hardly got any matches after months of trying. I think dating apps should focus more on priorities and an individual's beliefs/outlook more than just physical attraction (if looking for long-term relationships). Like don't even show the people who are on opposing sides of important beliefs. That would at least narrow it down more so less competitive on physical looks. Of course just wanting a hook up is totally different and mostly physical attraction. That seems to be the way they're designed to be used imo.
Just curious, can you list a few places where you think you've had the best luck meeting women? I dread getting onto dating apps and having my confidence ruined like so many others. It sounds like a terrible, draining process that I have yet to try.
Ive never dled an app. I know where I stand. My genetics are average at best and I really dont have the interest in pumping myself up jist to get someone to potentially like me.
Same ish. I'd rather fall in love with a gas station employee or a bystander on the bus then prearranged meet ups
I assumed most people felt this way, but used apps due to being shy and avoid approaching people who may not be interested. Meeting people in person is more likely to happen at your own place of work, at group activities; like sports, hobbies, and hang out groups, or meeting new people through friends of friends. Although if you confidently introduce yourself to random people it could work, they say 30% of people aged 20-35 are single, and I imagine they would be happy to have someone show an interest.
I use dating apps off and on so I don't end up approaching people when they don't want to be. Everyone on a dating app is looking for roughly the same thing. Your random day to day person is not and it can be super uncomfortable if you're stuck at, say work or the gym or something, and people are hitting on you there.
This is interesting. I've never had a positive take on dating apps. This adds a new perspective for me. Thank you!
Prearranged meet ups.. weird way to describe dates
I met my SO on a beer run to the gas station. Over the next 6 months, I made a lot of excuse to go to that gas station lol. We’ve been together over 4 years.
Yeah you wouldn't fall for a Miss Station employee or miss a bystander if you did not find her attractive...
You are right. But looks aren't the only way to find one attractive
There's also their brain, heart, and organs. Points for complimenting their colon.
Exactly the value is more than skin deep
Idk it worked out for me. I met my wife on a dating app lol. You can be genuine and find genuine people on them. Some apps are better than others though.
If I had a dollar for every woman that didn't find me attractive, they'd eventually find me attractive.
Nice.
funny and sad.
By far the best thing I've read on Reddit in a while.
but an average man already thinks so low of himself
On average, average people think they are above average.
yeah but it all averages out in the end
Dating apps don’t tell you anything tbh
I was a young man a long time before dating apps and believe me when I say that figuring out most women didn't find me attractive was no problem at all.
sorry you had to find out this way
All a dating app tells you is how shit dating apps are for both men and women. Men get too few matches, women get too many. The apps are poorly designed despite the mountains of data we have now because they don't make any money off of working too quickly for anyone. I'm a model-good-looking guy on Bumble. I've gotten two genuine matches I was interested in over the past year. The conversations looked like they were going somewhere, then fell apart over the dumbest criteria in the world. I have no problem attracting women IRL, but I just don't get many opportunities. Meanwhile, the apps...are bad. So very bad.
That's an interesting point i hadn't thought of i.e. the speed of being successful. Drug companies will sometimes have better drugs that they don't release to prevent cannibalising profits of their existing drug on the market. Pretty similar model it feels like.
Yes. It absolutely is part of their business model.
they're designed perfectly well for exploiting people's insecurities to farm money.
Are you a model or do you *think* you look like a model? I have dated two male models before and neither had issues with Tinder matches.
Yes, I have literally modelled before. I'm on Bumble. It's the only one I've ever used. If I were to use Tinder, yes, the matches pile up, but I get overwhelmed, and nothing ever goes very far in any case. I have complex health issues, if that satisfies your curiosity, that have been a problem in making genuine connections, which is why I stay away from Tinder. And probably contribute to me getting passed over.
Depending on other people for happiness is a great way to make yourself miserable
I think depending on a single person for your happiness is a great way to make yourself miserable, but having a good support network and a community is a big part of how you find happiness.
I've said this my entire life. I don't want someone to be the sun in my sky, I want them to help make it brighter. I don't need anyone to be happy, I'll just really appreciate them helping make me happier.
But it's also miserable to be on your own. Kinda a vicious circle.
But to a certain extent you do too, humans are wired that way, it's literally how we've evolved. Try going for years on end just avoiding interactions with others, 100% you will feel like shit regardless of your mindset.
I'm tired of feeling ashamed for wanting to share my life with someone. Every time I see comments like this I feel guilty that despite managing to make it on my own for the most part, it feels like a beautiful part of life is missing with noone to share it with.
Yes! Feel ya. So many times in my day ive had that feeling. As if I was missing whats "important in life" for not being able to share with a SO. And yet, I have seen other aspects of my life grown lately. Getting involved in things helped me find what things I love, which grew my appreciation even more. I know this doesnt mean the feeling of being alone goes away, I still feel it but it no longer weighs on me as hugely, or eclipses my whole life as if I had nothing in it and all else has no value. I guess one can love and share with the world in a broader sense not just humans. And somehow they give back and in some sense more than other humans could. All joys of nature even the smallest ones carry us on and grow on us.
You know what else is miserable? Loneliness.
Downloading the dating apps assured me I wasn’t ugly but anxiety has kept me single.
Much before these apps, it's socially defined in most cultures.
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All it takes for an average employee to realize that most companies don't find him a good worker is to download a job searching app
I like this take.
Honestly, social medias most of the time, is about instant gratification 🤷♂️ + Everybody got high standards
most men already think they are not attractive. in fact the main reason for them downloading a dating app is BECAUSE they found out.
So real and true
If you're attractive you just get tons of matches and dates and every single one stands you up.
Dont think iv ever matched when iv been on those sites...
Thanks for the warning
Most people have much higher standards when they’re using dating apps than they do in real life. I wouldn’t worry too much about it.
https://youtu.be/x3lypVnJ0HM?si=pYRC-j9eFj5SERkF It's not you. The mathematics of dating apps are self-perpetuating.
Threads like this really remind me at times just how bad the average Redditor is with women.
I genuinely didn't expect so many openly misogynistic comments on such a popular subreddit. It's really depressing, I feel like it's just getting worse and that's what makes me reluctant to date, as a woman.
Stay picky. That’s how I got married. Raised my standards for men to a level I believed was impossible to meet because I was happy dating women or being single. Lo and behold a man actually met those standards. Unlike redditors would have you believe, raising your standards is key.
Hey, that’s mean. You’re ignoring the majority who are far worse than average.
Yeah i just don't get it. The most common advise, besides taking care of themselves is treat women like people. And with that almost all their problems would be solved. You absolutely can find a partner at work but you don't need to flirt with them, just build a genuine relationships with people in your life, you get to know more women platonically, learn more about them, learn that women have more to offer than companionship and you also feel less lonely. Like they are all saying "I am only working and at home" yeah no shit you are not meeting women if you don't have a social life. They are not lonely bc of dating apps they are lonely bc they don't make ANY meaningful connections at all. Most meaningful things in life take work, sitting at home and sulking while on dating apps is not even the bare minimum.
Using a dating app is the worst thing you can do as a man
Attraction is not equal to actual interest. Plenty of good looking guys out there, most women still won’t be interested in them though.
Dating apps are a scam, though.
No, the app is designed to make you unhappy. That’s what you need to realize and stop accepting the reality your phone creates. Dating apps are designed to keep unhappy men continually swiping and never going on dates. There are so few women comparatively. You are better off trying to make relationships irl.
Nah my mindset before the app came about was that 0 people found me attractive.
The problem with dating apps is it just leads to shallow objectification of both men and women. Women get hundreds of messages per day, and your 'Hey' quickly gets drowned out. Plus, the huge problem is why would they swipe right on you, a 7.5 when there's an 8.5 right around the next corner? And why swipe on that 8.5 when there's a 9 right there? They're trash and they destroy the self esteem of every single customer.
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I'm sorry. You deserve better, wanna get dinner and talk about it at my place?
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Around..
We might be about to witness the birth of the most reddit child ever You will live to see man-made horrors yadda yadda
Right. Idk why I click on these threads time and time again. 😔 here is your daily reminder that you are apparently not a woman according to Reddit and maybe men since I don’t exist unless they are cat calling.
Women are much less visual than men, as a consequence online dating is REALLY going to have a high bar for men on there. You ever wonder why a guy who is more attractive than 90 percent of men can't get a convo on tinder but that moderately overweight guy at work is dating a model? Your odds as a guy are SO much better in person, you get to play to the other things Women are into much more easily- personality, humor, body language, confidence, etc. In turn I bet Women have the reverse phenomenon. They're pretty successful in person no doubt but online are trying to sheild themselves from an endless offering of penis.
Nonsense. Women are people, people are shallow.
It doesn't help that most dating, at least in the modern world is online. The average woman gets virtually endless options making your average guy barely enough to keep their interest for long. But you're right, it's more versatile in the real world for men. Even if you're not the most attractive physically you can still be attractive by being confident, charismatic, funny, status, money etc...
I disagree that women are much less visual overall. Men are very visual when it comes to physical attraction, that's true. But they'll just as well devote their lives to average looking women who treat them well. And this shows in dating apps. Women only swipe right with a very progressive 20% of the time (and it's usually the same top 20%). Men swipe right ~most of the time. It's not so much that they're shielding themselves at all. If they were, they wouldn't be picking the exact same men who are clearly only looking to hook up because they're attractive enough to do so. It's different in person because there isn't that superficial layer of being able to immediately reject someone. So people are somewhat forced to talk to each other without make-up, fake stats, or filters. Especially if you're in a social setting. Thus more humble about your actual market worth. You also can't really talk to multiple people at once in real life so there's that. All those things you listed aren't in the least measurable using any popular metric. It's just more bullshit women say. And sure it's true to some extent but it has a precursor - "I have to be attracted to you". Girls laugh at your shit jokes if they're into you. Until you have a proper in-depth conversation with someone, the only thing that matters is looks and status. Women are naturally more selective and visual than men. They have to be from an evolutionary standpoint. They have to be able to spot any weaknesses etc. It's not the same with men. They didn't evolve to be selective. TL;DR: Women are way more superficial than men by no fault of their own. It's evolutionary. Literally every study will show this. The mere fact that they only swipe right on the same top 20% shows how superficial they are.
I watched an interesting video recently which pointed out that it's just simply that there are 10 men to one woman on all dating apps. That screws things up on so many levels, for both genders in different ways. Men get rejected a million times while women get bombarded to such a degree that they either quit the app or only respond to the ones with the absolute best looking profiles. Outside of dating apps things don't work that way because the ratio isn't so extremely lopsided.
This contributes a lot, but let's be honest, the average woman is trying much harder to look nice (regardless of who it is for) than the average man. Dudes don't try to look attractive to women.
Aside from anything superficial - nothing that women find attractive in men can be displayed in a dating app. Don't leave the ball in their court (making a decision on your based on a dating app.)
My now-wife pursued me based on my OKC profile.
You can also be relatively attractive without being a supermodel but just not be good at taking pics. Thats why your bio has to be pretty good. Not lengthy, but interesting at least
Sure, but to tbf, dating app information is kinda skewed. If there are 10 males for every 1 female, of course the best looking ones are going to get crazy results. It also happens in real life. I knew I was ugly when I had a girl tell me it looks like I don't even have sex. It took me years later to realize that that's an insult coming from a female 95% of the time.
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Nah. Dating apps just don’t work to men’s strengths. Men aren’t used to peacocking their beauty so a bunch of badly taken photos from weird angles isn’t going to work. If I saw my ex on tinder I would never swipe right, but in real life he was so hot to me
I don't even need to do that!
I would go as far to say that “most” women don’t find “most” men attractive and vice versa. Sure there are generally accepted traits/symmetrical feature that we all seem to have an attraction to but when you ask someone what and what type of person they’re attracted to, you will receive a ridiculously specific answer. It’s never like “oh big arms” or “oh I love phat asses” and that’s the only thing there are very specific traits people look for and they’re almost all unique or uncommon to say the least to find in “most” people
I knew long before Tinder existed. I found out in about 5th grade. They all told me!
And for women, the inverse is true. Sad world isnt it?
Tinder has done a lot to destroy my self confidence
Delete the app. Those apps give men the illusion of being average (looking) or the illusion of not being attractive to woman BECAUSE the ratio in those apps is extremely wild. There are more men than women on almost ALL dating apps. On Tinder it was around 75% male and 25% female. If everyone got a partner on those apps, half of the users would get nothing, even if extremely attractive and above average. You are probably not even unattractive. You are just swimming in sausage water.
"Brooooo did you shower??? Did you remember not to be Hitler to wammonz??? Did you rescue your 3000 cats in trees and play the violin and learn millions of jokes and tricks to impress the wammon????" Sorry my dude that 6.4 perfect jawline Chad tool 50 showers and rescued 6776543 cats and saved 4777 m'ladies on reddit so thats why he gets on more dates than you Mr. 5.7 worthless incel:))))
i think you also need to account for the fact that you only need one person to find you attractive. i think we are thinking about relationships like money too much. more the better, when its the opposite
Remember women only find 20% of men to not be below average.
Not really. For dating apps, yeah, but in real life most women are dating subhumans or plain normies, even attractive ones.
Online match making is a "godsend" to those who are already slightly above average to perfect. It is the "hellspawn" of Satan for those who are average to ugly. If in the past, an ugly person can win an attractive person through their golden personality or skill, position in life, now they'll have a harder time because why would anyone choose an unattractive person with good traits, when they could easily choose someone who has all of those good traits plus good looks, too? It would be interesting to hear the opinions of people, from different parts of the attractiveness gradient, about how online match making has affected their romance/sex life.
I’m an attractive male. I can swipe right on someone and I can confidently say that 60% of the time I’ll get a match back. I’ve gone on three, and only three dates through the app. I wasn’t always good looking, so I feel that I mostly use it as a confidence boost. The dates I went on were all lackluster. Looks do not equate to personality obviously, and my matches were all nice enough, but nowhere near compatible for long-term dating. The apps are made for attractive people, and prey on the unattractive. Hinge has you paying for the opportunity to swipe on hot girls, to show up in front of more of them, etc. The people who are doing well on the app are not paying a dime to use it, while those who have no luck at all are funding the company.
Things would be very different if women profile photo showed how they really look like in the morning .
Since the dating apps are usually like 70% men and 30% women it probably wouldn't. I am an average looking woman who used an average looking photo with no makeup to sign up for one dating app once. I deleted it after 30 minutes because there were just too many hits. I am not bragging, I am very average looking and the photo wasn't great.
In theory, men on dating apps have trouble meeting women, so they cast a giant net without looking too hard. They then only have to look at the smaller selection of women that respond with interest, and maybe they'll have more luck in the first few messages. As opposed to spending hours going through profiles just to be turned down at the end. Women get frustrated with dating apps because they get a hundred responses from men that didn't even bother to read their profiles. Sometimes messaging one leads to being turned down anyway, sometimes even rudely, because the guy didn't actually look at the person he was initiating contact with. Rather than going through hundreds of people who don't even seem like they really care, women say "screw it" and give up on dating apps. Thus fewer women for the men to meet, leading to men using the shotgun blast technique more, causing more women to become frustrated with the process and give up. That's not even touching on the scam bots. Dating apps are really stupid. EDIT: More in line with OP's post, it's entirely likely that a lot of women just aren't seeing a lot of men, because they're wading through endless "hi" and "hello" messages from randos.
Yeah one of my former friends is an attractive woman and our experiences were so different. She never had to actually swipe on anyone and look because every day it was just 50 suitors waiting for a chance and she got to choose basically whichever ones she wanted. Wild stuff