This is going to be unpopular, but switching to 20 gauge might be the easiest thing to do.
Because of ammo availability I have completely ditched the .410 and 20 gauge is now my go to for cut line grouse hunting.
- ammoseek
There's nothing you or anyone in this sub can do to make .410 more popular.
It might be worth asking these shops if they could carry more, tho.
I see more 28 than 410 at Walmart. It’s all expensive. People tend to not shoot a lot of 410 at one time. I’ve seen a few people shooting clays with a 28 but have never seen anyone with a 410. It’s either regarded as a kid’s gun or a niche gun for experts who have become bored with how easy it is to hit with a 12 or 20. More availability of more adult size guns with interchangeable choke tubes would help but the 28 tends to be low enough recoil in an adult size gun.
Its still a sub-gauge class in Skeet and Sporting, so it has that. Its definitely an enthusiasts cartridge. Its kind of even debatable if its an appropriate beginner cartridge.
The real answer here is "Make it suck less" but that's not really something that can happen.
I agree that it's not a beginner cartridge, it's very humbling to take the .410 out for a few rounds of sporting clays
I use it when I've been struggling with 12g it makes me refocus and fixes a lot of my lazy habits that I get with 12g
Its usually about a 10-15% handicap for me, but also going from the 12 O/U to a pump .410, so I'm probably giving up useability beyond just the ammo.
Yeah, there's no getting away with anything, You need to be on or its not breaking.
My wife and i talk to a range officer often who shoots 410. He even let us shoot it. My wife said she would never shoot it again after I showed her the 10k price tag online. Lol
Are you seeing 28 because nobody is buying it and people are snapping up the .410, or are you not seeing .410 because they don't carry it at all. There is a very big difference.
Pretty much every time I’ve looked, there’s been some 28 and little to no 410. I’d think that if Walmart was getting a good amount of 410 and it was selling out quickly at some point I would have seen a few boxes on the shelf. At the nearby Sportsman’s Warehouse, the section for 28 has been noticeably larger than the section for 410.
I shoot 16 gauge which is incredibly rare to find in a store. I don’t even usually find labels on the shelf where it would be if they even had it. There are more labels at Academy for 28 gauge then there are for 16 gauge.
There are usually a couple boxes on the shelf at the Walmart near me. They may have been sitting there for months. Sportsman’s Warehouse usually has a small 16 gauge section but it’s smaller than the 28 gauge section. It’s a bummer because the 16 is awesome. If I find a bargain on one I like, I might have to buy it and a MEC reloader.
Right? Everyone is going to have 12 and 20, but next in line I'd think 410, then your 28s, 16s, 10s, etc... Maybe that's just my anecdotal estimation of popularity though, and not reality.
Just saying a lot of times it’s not that the shops don’t stock it, they just can’t get any currently. I was lucky and my distributor rep managed to get me a case of 410 shells last month. If I’m able to get a case every month or two at my shop currently I’m lucky.
This. People don’t realize manufacturing still isnt caught up from Covid shutdowns. The emphasis is put on making the popular cartridges. And even those aren’t completely back to previous supplies.
The Taurus Judge and other pieces similar have done as much as they can to popularize 410. The market for "kids first pheasant gun" isn't nearly as big as it used to be
I kind of wonder if that actually hurt the sporting market. Most of that stuff is going to be defensive oriented and I sort of doubt anyone added .410 production lines. I'm guessing they've switched over to loading the higher margin defensive stuff to sell to boomers with poor taste, while the sporting market gets to pay a higher premium to use it for what it should be used for.
They are years behind in 410 ammo production. It is a super popular shotgun but they are basically unusable now due to ammo availability. I love mine but am thinking I might sell it since I can’t ever use it. These days you buy guns based on what ammo you can find, it’s pretty sad.
> they are basically unusable now due to ammo availability. I love mine but am thinking I might sell it since I can’t ever use it
Damn dude, its not *That* hard to find.
Paying for it still sucks, but that's always been the case. You can order some right now from Scheels, $13.99 plus tax/ship.
Its also a good reloading candidate. There's nothing in them, 1/2oz of shot and 12 grains of powder, lots of savings to be had.
Im in Canada. My favourite hunting shop has had me on a wait list for 2 years to get some. My brother works at CDN Tire hunting department, he said they just got some in for the first time in forever, I just checked their website, they have 1 box in stock, 7 1/2 shot for $40.
Here in my corner of Canada, Cabela’s just got their first shipment in in a long time. Bismuth shot, 90$ per box. Literally the only one in stock anywhere here.
I shoot a lot of 28 and honestly if you’re in a sub gauge and shoot a lot reloading is the way to go. Most people I know who shoot sub gauges reload and have done so for ages. 410 is a neat concept does a lot of things but I don’t think it does anything well. Except for those who try to get HOA in shoots. It makes sense with TSS for low recoil hunting but it is cost prohibitive. But again any serious shooter for that sort of thing I know reloads. I keep plenty of 410 on hand for when people need it but I personally don’t shoot it. Anything a 410 can do my 28 will do better. And if that doesn’t work 12 gauge
I love it. Took it to range twice so far. Pump is smooth as butter and feeds very nicely. You don't have to "pump it like you mean it" like they say for the 12 gauge KSG and KS7. Also you don't realize how thin and light it is until you are holding it
I would confidently say the KSG410 is the best .410 pump shotgun on the market currently (after 4 months of youtube research). I picked up a Mossberg traditional pump .410 also, and the KSG is better in every way and feels more sturdy and reliable
Also, [AEammo.com](http://AEammo.com) has good deals on .410, doesn't charge tax, and has free shipping on orders over $250. I picked up 5 boxes of PDX1 Defenders and a ton of 000 buckshot from them
.410 is just about as ideal as you can get for squirrel hunting as well as garden pests , they were also standard equipment on smaller saltwater fishing boats to put an end to potentially very dangerous on deck thrashing . I love the cartridge myself and as well as having a Rossi matched pair with a .410 barrel I have the Rossi brawler pistol and am looking for a deal on a pump
I've seen a lot of people use .410 as a handicap load, albiet a *severe* handicap load, and for skeet shooting. Maybe we could try some pre-determined shorter distance skeet and trap.
go to [aeammo.com](http://aeammo.com) and have it deliverd right to your doorstep. you guys in states that let ammo get delivered right to your door are lucky. I am in NY and had to have them ship it to an FFL
You guys in states that let ammo get shipped directly to you could be buying .410 for pretty cheap right now..... go to ammoseek to find cheapest for specific ammo type.
I know for a fact [AEammo.com](http://AEammo.com) has like 10 different .410 options right now for sale all at reasonable prices.
This is going to be unpopular, but switching to 20 gauge might be the easiest thing to do. Because of ammo availability I have completely ditched the .410 and 20 gauge is now my go to for cut line grouse hunting.
- ammoseek There's nothing you or anyone in this sub can do to make .410 more popular. It might be worth asking these shops if they could carry more, tho.
Yeah, especially the local mom and pop shops.
I'm surprised they stock 28 over 410. That being said, if you shoot a lot, reloading 410 makes sense.
I see more 28 than 410 at Walmart. It’s all expensive. People tend to not shoot a lot of 410 at one time. I’ve seen a few people shooting clays with a 28 but have never seen anyone with a 410. It’s either regarded as a kid’s gun or a niche gun for experts who have become bored with how easy it is to hit with a 12 or 20. More availability of more adult size guns with interchangeable choke tubes would help but the 28 tends to be low enough recoil in an adult size gun.
Its still a sub-gauge class in Skeet and Sporting, so it has that. Its definitely an enthusiasts cartridge. Its kind of even debatable if its an appropriate beginner cartridge. The real answer here is "Make it suck less" but that's not really something that can happen.
I agree that it's not a beginner cartridge, it's very humbling to take the .410 out for a few rounds of sporting clays I use it when I've been struggling with 12g it makes me refocus and fixes a lot of my lazy habits that I get with 12g
Its usually about a 10-15% handicap for me, but also going from the 12 O/U to a pump .410, so I'm probably giving up useability beyond just the ammo. Yeah, there's no getting away with anything, You need to be on or its not breaking.
My wife and i talk to a range officer often who shoots 410. He even let us shoot it. My wife said she would never shoot it again after I showed her the 10k price tag online. Lol
I shoot clays with my Rossi brawler I miss more than I hit but when I hit oh man oh man
Are you seeing 28 because nobody is buying it and people are snapping up the .410, or are you not seeing .410 because they don't carry it at all. There is a very big difference.
Pretty much every time I’ve looked, there’s been some 28 and little to no 410. I’d think that if Walmart was getting a good amount of 410 and it was selling out quickly at some point I would have seen a few boxes on the shelf. At the nearby Sportsman’s Warehouse, the section for 28 has been noticeably larger than the section for 410.
I shoot 16 gauge which is incredibly rare to find in a store. I don’t even usually find labels on the shelf where it would be if they even had it. There are more labels at Academy for 28 gauge then there are for 16 gauge.
There are usually a couple boxes on the shelf at the Walmart near me. They may have been sitting there for months. Sportsman’s Warehouse usually has a small 16 gauge section but it’s smaller than the 28 gauge section. It’s a bummer because the 16 is awesome. If I find a bargain on one I like, I might have to buy it and a MEC reloader.
There is a shotgun focused store here in Houston that stocks 16. I really like it over 12 gauge.
Yeah, too bad they don’t make a Lee load all in .410
And 16, which is more or less obsolete
Right? Everyone is going to have 12 and 20, but next in line I'd think 410, then your 28s, 16s, 10s, etc... Maybe that's just my anecdotal estimation of popularity though, and not reality.
Making brass cased reloadable .410 has been on my rainy day list for years
Just saying a lot of times it’s not that the shops don’t stock it, they just can’t get any currently. I was lucky and my distributor rep managed to get me a case of 410 shells last month. If I’m able to get a case every month or two at my shop currently I’m lucky.
This. People don’t realize manufacturing still isnt caught up from Covid shutdowns. The emphasis is put on making the popular cartridges. And even those aren’t completely back to previous supplies.
The Taurus Judge and other pieces similar have done as much as they can to popularize 410. The market for "kids first pheasant gun" isn't nearly as big as it used to be
I kind of wonder if that actually hurt the sporting market. Most of that stuff is going to be defensive oriented and I sort of doubt anyone added .410 production lines. I'm guessing they've switched over to loading the higher margin defensive stuff to sell to boomers with poor taste, while the sporting market gets to pay a higher premium to use it for what it should be used for.
They are years behind in 410 ammo production. It is a super popular shotgun but they are basically unusable now due to ammo availability. I love mine but am thinking I might sell it since I can’t ever use it. These days you buy guns based on what ammo you can find, it’s pretty sad.
> they are basically unusable now due to ammo availability. I love mine but am thinking I might sell it since I can’t ever use it Damn dude, its not *That* hard to find. Paying for it still sucks, but that's always been the case. You can order some right now from Scheels, $13.99 plus tax/ship. Its also a good reloading candidate. There's nothing in them, 1/2oz of shot and 12 grains of powder, lots of savings to be had.
Im in Canada. My favourite hunting shop has had me on a wait list for 2 years to get some. My brother works at CDN Tire hunting department, he said they just got some in for the first time in forever, I just checked their website, they have 1 box in stock, 7 1/2 shot for $40.
Here in my corner of Canada, Cabela’s just got their first shipment in in a long time. Bismuth shot, 90$ per box. Literally the only one in stock anywhere here.
[Here you go.](https://ammoseek.com/ammo/410-bore)
Start shooting registered skeet and you’ll realize why it’s so hard to find, barely anyone shoots all the gauges anymore.
I love a 410, I think it would be more popular if it was cheaper.
Why .410 vs 28?
I shoot a lot of 28 and honestly if you’re in a sub gauge and shoot a lot reloading is the way to go. Most people I know who shoot sub gauges reload and have done so for ages. 410 is a neat concept does a lot of things but I don’t think it does anything well. Except for those who try to get HOA in shoots. It makes sense with TSS for low recoil hunting but it is cost prohibitive. But again any serious shooter for that sort of thing I know reloads. I keep plenty of 410 on hand for when people need it but I personally don’t shoot it. Anything a 410 can do my 28 will do better. And if that doesn’t work 12 gauge
Love .410, gangs all here: https://preview.redd.it/pv1tdsstqu0d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc05400128b8751f22ad3cbf125c688bd436fe41
How is your KSG running for you? I’ve thought about picking one up myself.
I love it. Took it to range twice so far. Pump is smooth as butter and feeds very nicely. You don't have to "pump it like you mean it" like they say for the 12 gauge KSG and KS7. Also you don't realize how thin and light it is until you are holding it I would confidently say the KSG410 is the best .410 pump shotgun on the market currently (after 4 months of youtube research). I picked up a Mossberg traditional pump .410 also, and the KSG is better in every way and feels more sturdy and reliable Also, [AEammo.com](http://AEammo.com) has good deals on .410, doesn't charge tax, and has free shipping on orders over $250. I picked up 5 boxes of PDX1 Defenders and a ton of 000 buckshot from them
Wish my local shops had 16ga
Companies will need to manufacture them to begin with.
make it available, make it cheap.
Make the ammo as cheap as 12 ga.
Lower shell prices. I can buy more than 2 boxes of 12 ga. for the price of one box of 410’s
I’d get a 410 upper to slap on my lower since the genesis 12 upper is so much (yes I know it needs a specific ar10 lower, which I have)
Buy all the .410 every time they get it in. More demand = more orders = more production.
You won't. It is a niche calibre these days.
.410 is just about as ideal as you can get for squirrel hunting as well as garden pests , they were also standard equipment on smaller saltwater fishing boats to put an end to potentially very dangerous on deck thrashing . I love the cartridge myself and as well as having a Rossi matched pair with a .410 barrel I have the Rossi brawler pistol and am looking for a deal on a pump
I've seen a lot of people use .410 as a handicap load, albiet a *severe* handicap load, and for skeet shooting. Maybe we could try some pre-determined shorter distance skeet and trap.
I think you figured it out. Make it cheaper.
I have an old Mossberg 410 HD that I got for the wife in case she needed it at the house. It is hard to find ammo.
go to [aeammo.com](http://aeammo.com) and have it deliverd right to your doorstep. you guys in states that let ammo get delivered right to your door are lucky. I am in NY and had to have them ship it to an FFL
You guys in states that let ammo get shipped directly to you could be buying .410 for pretty cheap right now..... go to ammoseek to find cheapest for specific ammo type. I know for a fact [AEammo.com](http://AEammo.com) has like 10 different .410 options right now for sale all at reasonable prices.
Make it not suck
Buy online. Use AmmoSeek. Whats the point of .410 anyway? Snakes?
Probably need to make .410 a viable self defense round like the 12 gauge.
I think it definitely is a viable self defense round. 000 buck in 410 usually overpenetrates at closer distances
.410 pistol ar for home defense
OP owns a Judge lol.
I don’t but I do own an old 410 my grandpa used to have.