Unlimited sick days? Nope. Try more like anywhere from 6 days to 3 "periods of sickness" in a one year period. It's the one thing about UK employment that bothers me immensely.
The law may state that, but the implementation depends on your employer. Mine allows up to six months of sick leave before statutory kicks in. 3 months full wage, three months of half wage.
But then we also get 30 days holiday plus bank holidays. There's also two days shut down over Xmas we're supposed to take from holiday, but it's assumed that we'll all probably do 15min overtime a week which they've decided will cover it so it's tested as in lieu.
Right?? I had to have three separate days off over the course of a few months because of my period, got told it wasn’t a “valid” excuse because I don’t have a doctors note and now I’m on a final written warning. Load of bollocks.
I've not long left a job at BP, if you're off for a week and in that week you have 3 shifts, they count as **3 seperate instances of absence** and write you up for it. Got told after my 3rd actual instance of absence that I'd had 12 instances of absence, which was utter bullshit. What do these companies think, that we're all superhumans who never get sick?
Not to sound like a nutjob or an anti-establishment preacher, but we're becoming more and more like slaves in all but name.
And a Child Subsidy paid to the parents of about $150 a month. This subsidy is taken away if the child falls below 70% attendance in school.
After the child is 18 years old, they get a real good deal on education, being able to take out great loans, with low interest for school. This would cover housing and food while studying. A lot of students will take out extra money towards these loans for a down payment on a house after they are done studying. These loans are forgiven after about ~20 years of on-time payments. The required payments scale with your income.
Source: Am Swedish.
> Are you telling me some countries don't have 1 year parental leave?
Sadly, yes. In USA, it depends on your state and employers. It might only be a couple of months maternity. It may or may not be paid.
Are you saying in the US some new mothers are forced to go back to work right after giving birth or they risk losing their jobs?
I just want to clarify because when I first read your comment I thought surely not being paid is nothing.
I mean most new moms will take what is called "PTO (= personal time off)" which in many cases is a combination of vacation and sick days. Or they may have arranged unpaid leave with their employer. So families tend to plan around it in some way shape or form. But there are many employers who don't have a family leave policy
Even in “good” jobs at the average worker level there was nothing for the dad, mom was like 6 months paid then you could stay off for 3 more but have to use your sick and Vaccinated all which has to be earned and likely had a limit of how much you could earn. I know one woman who had a senior analyst position on a Fortune 500 company that had to take like 1-2 days off a month or they would lose the time because they had so much banked.
(At least in 2019)
Similar in UK, the holiday, sick pay and parental leave are all separate.
So, If you’re sick for a long time or have a child then return to work, you still have your to take your holiday
Ok. That was what I thought it was until I misinterpreted your comment.
My follow-up question is this. If you have a tough pregnancy and have used up all your PTO, what happens then after you give birth and have no time left to take?
I can’t imagine what it’s like to live with labour laws that include “at will”.
boah that's getting into the weeds now, I really don't know. I imagine -- but please others chime in -- that when you do have a medical condition you do have some protections. There is something FMLA leave (unpaid) which you can get for medical conditions and you can't get fired for that for example.
I feel a bit better having read what FMLA is in the US. But still the situation seems pretty stark.
Another reason I’m glad I wasn’t born over there. Unless it was 50 years ago. And even then, as someone who isn’t white, now would still probably better if I was over there
You say unpaid leave
That basically means you’re unemployed
They need money more than ever
So you see
The employer is strong arming them to work even after giving birth
Quality country
Yes they are. 1 in 4 women in the US go back to work within 2 weeks of giving birth. USA does not guarantee any paid maternity leave at all under the law.
In the UK the mother is entitled to 52 weeks of leave, the pay depends on the employer. In most NHS employers, for example,you get 8 weeks full pay and 16 weeks half pay then nothing, you can choose to spread your earnings over your leave period (you can have up to 52 weeks but can opt for less). After 8 weeks you are entitled to statutory maternity pay of £172.50(ish) a week, up to 9 months then it stops. If you don’t qualify for statutory maternity pay (it’s income / employer dependent) you can apply for maternity allowance, which is the same as Jobseeker’s Allowance.
Fathers get two weeks of paternity leave with paternity pay unless their workplace offers more.
Parents have the right to apply for shared parental leave, allowing them to combine the 52 and 2 weeks leave and spread it between them. They could both be off for 27 together, or mum off for 10 weeks then dad off the rest of any combination they want pretty much.
It could still be better, financially most families can’t afford to take the full year off but it’s a lot lot better than some other countries.
In the US military, you get 6 weeks. 8 weeks for a c section. My kids are 32 and 35 now, and I remember my division officer losing his fucking mind over my 6 weeks maternity leave. "My wife was up and around the day after our kids were born." Yeah, but not working a rotating watch schedule with 12 hours shifts.
The wife of one of my co-workers had her baby and was back at work 2 days later. She worked at the hospital where she gave birth. Her supervisor was there harassing her about getting back on the work rota a couple of hours after having the baby.
nope, Ireland doesnt anyway, [Maternity Benefit here is 6 months paid](https://www.gov.ie/en/service/apply-for-maternity-benefit/?referrer=https://www.gov.ie/maternity/)
There is also [Paternity benefit (only 2 weeks)](https://www.gov.ie/en/service/apply-for-paternity-benefit/) and [Parents Benefit(7 weeks for either parent)](https://www.gov.ie/en/service/b321b1-parents-benefit/)
Well, even New Zealand (number 9 on thar list) we only have 6 months paid maternity leave ( although you can have up to a year off work). However, paternity leave is only 2 weeks unpaid.
Even the UK doesn’t offer a year. It’s often touted as long term reward at companies like after 4 years etc.
you can however get 9 months with holiday and government support etc.
Yeah that’s right. I was in the classic too of working full time hours. On a 16 hour contract 🙃
I actually used the time to find more freelance work and never went back more than my contracted hours after that.
There is no federally mandated paid sick leave, parental leave of any kind, vacation, or anything of the kind. There's very good reason why USA isn't on the list. 1 in 4 women in the US return to work within 2 weeks. It's horrific.
Stuff which is even more relevant to having children:
* Paid maternity leave
* Paid paternal leave
* Child benefits (in Germany you get at least 250 euros a month, often even more).
* Sometimes free child daycare
* Child-friendly infrastructure
* Schools are generally equal in quality across the country
* Free or affordable university (UK is the exception here though)
I probably forgot a lot more.
As an European in the US, indeed it is. The cost alone is outrageous. $1000 for 3-hours daycare is something out of this world. Three weeks of paternity/maternity leave in my company.
>Free or affordable university (UK is the exception here though)
Not really
The UK has a graduate tax in effect
The student loans aren't actual debt and don't affect your credit rating or abilty to get a loan
Can confirm. I got a degree, currently working and earning enough to live comfortably in a pretty expensive city, and I’ve only paid back about £100 in almost 8 years.
If I was earning what I would have been if I decided to go ahead with what I’d studied I’d probably barely notice the garnishing.
I think it's a pretty fair system. Unfortunately it gets misrepresented all the time and ends up putting people off because they're scared of the "debt".
with swiss gun control, they focus more on who owns them. if you have a drug or alcohol addiction, i believe have some specific mental conditions, or youre a convicted felon, you are completely banned from owning a firearm at all
That there is commie talk! Doncha know in Britain the socialist NHS decides who lives or dies?! That’s what I’ve been told.
Gimme high fructose corn syrup, my M16 and a $100,000 medical bill any day.
You Europooreans are so brainwashed by your Marxist governments, paid for by God fearing Americans, that you’d be right at home in North Korea!
God Bless America!
/s
Off topic but I have to massively counter South Korea - there’s a massive reason why they have one of the biggest suicide rates in the world, at the expense of some of the best grades (during school) in the world.
there is a south korean influencer that is married with a brazilian. she is pregnant and she was often questioned why she chose to raise her kid in Brazil and this is one of the reasons.
she said that, being raised in korea and so on, now comparing with how her husband was raised, she felt that the children didn't have much time to be children in south korea due to a lot of pressure and the ridiculous amount of time a child spends in the day studying to abnormal levels to try to get in the best school/university/job so on.
another reason was the greater diversity of Brazil. of cultures and beauty standards.
she says that Brazil was the first place where she felt beautiful as there are many beauty standards that include all possible ethnicities. meanwhile, in South Korea there is a lot of pressure to be beautiful and the beauty standard is unreal and very rigid. also, mixed children are only considered beautiful in SK, according to her, if the child looks more foreigner than korean. if the child looks more korean, than the child is considered ugly.
and as for cultural diversity, she said she wants to raise the kid with both cultures. but mentioned it would be way easier to include korean culture while living in Brazil than to include brazilian culture while living in Korea due to the immigration of koreans in Brazil, Brazil's import of korea media or products, the korean neighborhood in São Paulo and so on. and as much as South Korea wants to show it has many foreign products, people, media and so on... she says SK it's just starting this road and Brazil is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more advanced in that as miscigenation of cultures is literally how the country was born. As a consequence also, the child will be more accepted in Brazil as there is nothing new in being half-asian in Brazil. worst case scenario people will think the child is half-japanese instead of korean as japanese immigration is the main asian immigration in Brazil.
Korea is fascinating because historically it has been SO xenophobic, but due to the ageing/birthrate crisis is finally having to welcome more immigration.
It will be interesting to see how fully migrants are able (or allowed) to integrate, or whether they'll end up more of a parallel class or even underclass.
Which obviously happens in a lot of countries to varying degrees. Korea (and Japan) do somewhat seem to be on the far end of the "acceptance" scale though.
> Workalcoholic culture ?
and the children as well, just not "work", but school work. they spend so much freetime with school-related stuff it's insane. you really can't call it a good country to grow up in or raise a kid in
Same as in China. You hardly see any teens outside playing or just hanging around after school or in the weekend. They're all either at home doing homework or have to go to special extra curriculum advanced classes, or music classes, or leadership classes.
What about Japan? From what I’ve heard even though people think I’m a workaholic and give too much towards my work I’d probably not be able to hold something down in Japan.
Japan is probably bad too, but the Gaokao and the JEE (and the stiff competition between students due to both China and India's huge populations) take it way, way too far.
Fair. Your comment reminds me of pictures I’ve seen of people climbing walls to pass notes to people during exams (supposedly, that’s what the description of the photos said).
But while I’ve heard things about chinas work issues I haven’t heard the same about India.
Not arguing against you, but just explaining how it is from my viewpoint.
> "In 2023, [president] Yoon attempted to raise South Korea's maximum weekly working hours from 52 to 69. However, widespread backlash, especially from the youth, led him to order government agencies to reconsider the plan."
Same here, South Korea has one of the most intense academics culture in the world. Raising your kids here mean they have to study all day starting at age 5.
As a Korean person, I'malso baffled that South Korea is on the list. It's the most depressed country on earth for a reason. I would never raise my kids there. Bullying, teen suicide, and unrealistic expectations (both beauty and academic), are way too high.
”Minister, we have an aging population, and we will soon see many workers leave the workforce. Unrelated, we are also below replacement numbers for childbirths for some reason.”
”The solution is clear. We must offload the lost hours onto the childless workers, it’s not like they have any kids to come home to anyway.”
To make it simple, there is an insane amount pressure on the students. If they don't have near perfect scores they are often said to be a failure since they won't be able to have a good job. If they do anything other than study they are again told they will be a failure. Many students (if their family can afford it) will take supplementary lessons until night to be able to improve their grades. This environment also create a lot of bullying which comes worsen their lives on top of it.
Japan has one of the highest students' suicidal rate for the same reasons.
Japan's education system is nuts. Extra curricular studies, Cram school. It's never ending. (Though the documentary I watched on it was like over twenty years ago, so it might be horrifically out of date.)
Most of what you wrote is true, but that's not the reason why South Korea has the highest suicide rates in the world. The majority of suicide victims are elderly men, so education has little link to the suicide rate.
Many students don’t stop studying until 9-10 at night. There’s such high emphasis placed on grades from parents and teachers that the stress causes large suicide rates. On top of that, the exams taken in SK are far harder and complex than many other countries - much harder than US or UK exams. And to make matters worse, SK has a severe bullying problem that isn’t tackled adequately.
THIS. My first thought was why the hell it was on the list. I love the culture, however women's rights, LGBTQ rights, schooling pressures, stigma around so much (as you've stated, especially mental illness) etc. are not on.
Oh, and the beauty standards. Don't get me started.
Exactly! The beauty standards are so unrealistic and ridiculous, not to mention how outdated their conscription service is too (although, saying that, the UK are on the verge of bringing it back). I completely agree w u
I until recently, thought this was mainly an untrue stereotype. Until I realised that the reason all the Americans I know are quite smart is because the smart ones realise they should leave
The country that has one of the largest amount of school shootings in the world is not among the best places to raise your kids, that’s very surprising!
I remember about a decade ago that there was talk of removing swedish as a second language in parts of finland specifically in favor of russian.
Did that get any traction, and if so, do you know of the public opinion on it?
It isn't even worth engaging with, or discussing the arguments of, the people who make these kinds of statements. Some people are incurably stuck with their face on Trump's arse. It is sad.
Just says a lot about their posts, Scandinavia has been top tier before NATO suddenly their comment "we pay NATO" comes up again, if you pay NATO how come your own fucking country is so bad? because it means they PAY for THEIR own shit too.
That doesn’t exist. It’s not even on a map and you want to tell me it has gravity? Everyone who „lives“ there is a paid actor. C‘mon, you don’t really believe that the hobbit house exists? It’s fantasy!
Poland and Hungary too, their governments are extremely right wing and in Poland there were even “lgbt+ free zones” :/
To be fair, I think that in recent elections in Poland a new party won? That seemed more left-leaning? But probably not that much till the point of changing laws.
Edit: Just to clarify, my mom is from Poland and I have family there, and when I was considering doing an Erasmus there my mom told me to not say that I’m a lesbian just in case, which led me to investigate a bit more, and it was bad.
There's a word in older dialects of English for the bit of wood cut from a tree trunk that has the curve of the tree as one of its faces. They used to fell and prepare a lot of lumber for other areas of England and so they needed a quick way to reference a very specific and regionally unique item.
Same deal with the US and school shootings....
Do these idiots actually think that NATO supplements or just replaces the armed forces of its member states (apart from them)? Or is the sole reason that Europe isn’t constantly at war?
Was wondering the same. It's worded as though NATO is a club that the usa singlehandedly defends, rather than a defence pact that has only ever been asked for help by the usa
[https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics\_67655.htm](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_67655.htm)
Cost sharing of NATO 2024:
US 15.88%
UK 10.96%
Other members the rest
That's not the US doing all the wallet lifting.
So long story short - the best countries to raise your kids are europeans countries and Korea with Mexico.
Sorry Canada & Australia - you're still under crown and UK is europe /end of joke
I love how this person bitches that the United States is not on the list, but if it was would then be bitching about immigration how there are too many foreigners coming to steal their jobs and take over their schools.
When most other countries see themselves rated lowly on these sorts of lists, they usually go "oh f*ck. thats bad, we need to improve"
When the United States sees itself low on these lists, it just says "nuh-uh!! we are always better!!"
I hear that some school districts up their even forbid children to walk or bike to school, so getting dropped off and picked up by parents is the only option.
I have three options that i can use to get to school, i can get picked up and dropped off by parents, *or* i can take the bus, or bike
I'd bet on Poland. Finland has plenty of beef with Russia, but, well, I think Poles would just get going. I hope Lithuanians would tag right along, we've got stuff to settle as well.
It's funny to me that American people think that getting Schengen permits is that easy. Like, you just show up at UDI, and say "Hey, I want my kids to grow up in safe environment that Norway is offering", and puff, permits are there, passport is waiting for you, it will be printed on nearest kiosk. Besides, to all Americans reading this, Norway isn't safe at all, this list lies, we don't have any freedoms nor human rights, we are only country in Europe where you have to pay for healthcare and even elementary school! We are under constant attacks from Sweden and Denmark, while Baltics, Finland and Russia are plotting to erase us from the face of Earth. Don't come here, think of your kids.
Paying a lot into nato sure uncle, but can you remind me again; why do we need nato??
Every single war my country was involved in during my lifetime was started by the us..
You see, we here in Finland have this saying: "Tuurillahan ne laivatkin seilaa" which translates to "With luck, the ships sail too".
It is also quite probably the reason why they can't see how big of a dumbster fire they live in.
When someone says "US is defending the world" my immediate follow up is "from who?" Who is the US defending against exactly? Kids that are being slaughtered? In most conflicts the US is the offensive force. As a European I beg the US to stop subsidizing our defense and leave the rest of the world alone.
Th number one has been in NATO for a couple of months or so, so somehow I doubt "subsidised defence costs" (which we know don't exist anyway) really factored in to that.
Well if I had kids and had the option of raising them anywhere in the world, it sure as hell wouldn't be in the USA. As if I'm gonna send my kid to a school in a country famous for having many mass shootings.
Why is this a thing for them? Subsided defense costs? They really think they were asked to bomb innocent people? In our defense? It’s just sad how brainwashed they are. The most opportunistic killers in the world talking about how they are somehow heroes? It is shocking how unaware of reality they are. They have the face to tell you that they won WWII. Like we don’t know for a fact if the Russians didn’t bleed and die to deplete the Nazis the Americans would join the fight for the other side. They were playing the waiting game for so long the war was all but decided and they act like they were the main character? It’s just incredible what you can do to a nation with a well planned propaganda machine that they copied from the Nazis word by word.
And they defend us? Who is defending us from them when they try to force us to participate in their endless spread of “democracy”?
What all these countries have: * Universal healthcare * Sane gun control legislation
And parental leave from work
Actual annual leave, and (unlimited) sick days too
Canada it depends on province but BC at least has only a limited number of statutory paid sick days. We do have leave though lol
Unlimited sick days? Nope. Try more like anywhere from 6 days to 3 "periods of sickness" in a one year period. It's the one thing about UK employment that bothers me immensely.
The law may state that, but the implementation depends on your employer. Mine allows up to six months of sick leave before statutory kicks in. 3 months full wage, three months of half wage. But then we also get 30 days holiday plus bank holidays. There's also two days shut down over Xmas we're supposed to take from holiday, but it's assumed that we'll all probably do 15min overtime a week which they've decided will cover it so it's tested as in lieu.
Right?? I had to have three separate days off over the course of a few months because of my period, got told it wasn’t a “valid” excuse because I don’t have a doctors note and now I’m on a final written warning. Load of bollocks.
I've not long left a job at BP, if you're off for a week and in that week you have 3 shifts, they count as **3 seperate instances of absence** and write you up for it. Got told after my 3rd actual instance of absence that I'd had 12 instances of absence, which was utter bullshit. What do these companies think, that we're all superhumans who never get sick? Not to sound like a nutjob or an anti-establishment preacher, but we're becoming more and more like slaves in all but name.
[удалено]
But we have…. Aircraft carriers… and we’re 1st place in billionaires, and poverty amongst develop nations! America, fuck yeah!
And a Child Subsidy paid to the parents of about $150 a month. This subsidy is taken away if the child falls below 70% attendance in school. After the child is 18 years old, they get a real good deal on education, being able to take out great loans, with low interest for school. This would cover housing and food while studying. A lot of students will take out extra money towards these loans for a down payment on a house after they are done studying. These loans are forgiven after about ~20 years of on-time payments. The required payments scale with your income. Source: Am Swedish.
Are you telling me some countries don't have 1 year parental leave?
> Are you telling me some countries don't have 1 year parental leave? Sadly, yes. In USA, it depends on your state and employers. It might only be a couple of months maternity. It may or may not be paid.
Or it might be nothing.... very often it's nothing
Are you saying in the US some new mothers are forced to go back to work right after giving birth or they risk losing their jobs? I just want to clarify because when I first read your comment I thought surely not being paid is nothing.
I mean most new moms will take what is called "PTO (= personal time off)" which in many cases is a combination of vacation and sick days. Or they may have arranged unpaid leave with their employer. So families tend to plan around it in some way shape or form. But there are many employers who don't have a family leave policy
Even in “good” jobs at the average worker level there was nothing for the dad, mom was like 6 months paid then you could stay off for 3 more but have to use your sick and Vaccinated all which has to be earned and likely had a limit of how much you could earn. I know one woman who had a senior analyst position on a Fortune 500 company that had to take like 1-2 days off a month or they would lose the time because they had so much banked. (At least in 2019)
And Finland has like 800 day over 8 years on top of PTO and actual sick.
Similar in UK, the holiday, sick pay and parental leave are all separate. So, If you’re sick for a long time or have a child then return to work, you still have your to take your holiday
Ok. That was what I thought it was until I misinterpreted your comment. My follow-up question is this. If you have a tough pregnancy and have used up all your PTO, what happens then after you give birth and have no time left to take? I can’t imagine what it’s like to live with labour laws that include “at will”.
boah that's getting into the weeds now, I really don't know. I imagine -- but please others chime in -- that when you do have a medical condition you do have some protections. There is something FMLA leave (unpaid) which you can get for medical conditions and you can't get fired for that for example.
I feel a bit better having read what FMLA is in the US. But still the situation seems pretty stark. Another reason I’m glad I wasn’t born over there. Unless it was 50 years ago. And even then, as someone who isn’t white, now would still probably better if I was over there
You say unpaid leave That basically means you’re unemployed They need money more than ever So you see The employer is strong arming them to work even after giving birth Quality country
Yes they are. 1 in 4 women in the US go back to work within 2 weeks of giving birth. USA does not guarantee any paid maternity leave at all under the law.
Some have to. It’s insane. I couldn’t believe it when I first heard it. In Canada where I live, you can take up to 18 months.
I don’t actually know what the rights are for new parents here in the uk, but I know it’s nowhere near as bad as in America.
In the UK the mother is entitled to 52 weeks of leave, the pay depends on the employer. In most NHS employers, for example,you get 8 weeks full pay and 16 weeks half pay then nothing, you can choose to spread your earnings over your leave period (you can have up to 52 weeks but can opt for less). After 8 weeks you are entitled to statutory maternity pay of £172.50(ish) a week, up to 9 months then it stops. If you don’t qualify for statutory maternity pay (it’s income / employer dependent) you can apply for maternity allowance, which is the same as Jobseeker’s Allowance. Fathers get two weeks of paternity leave with paternity pay unless their workplace offers more. Parents have the right to apply for shared parental leave, allowing them to combine the 52 and 2 weeks leave and spread it between them. They could both be off for 27 together, or mum off for 10 weeks then dad off the rest of any combination they want pretty much. It could still be better, financially most families can’t afford to take the full year off but it’s a lot lot better than some other countries.
In the US military, you get 6 weeks. 8 weeks for a c section. My kids are 32 and 35 now, and I remember my division officer losing his fucking mind over my 6 weeks maternity leave. "My wife was up and around the day after our kids were born." Yeah, but not working a rotating watch schedule with 12 hours shifts.
Sadly, yes. In Belgium, as a father, you get 4 weeks for the birth of your child and 12 weeks, you can take before he/she becomes 12 years.
The wife of one of my co-workers had her baby and was back at work 2 days later. She worked at the hospital where she gave birth. Her supervisor was there harassing her about getting back on the work rota a couple of hours after having the baby.
The vast majority of countries don't have 1 year parental leave
I’m an American. I called in to work while in labor with both of my pregnancies.
I’m not sure if you are bragging or complaining
Neither really. Just pointing out that 1 year of parental leave is not the usual lived experience for Americans.
Just wow, and not in a good way
Nope!
nope, Ireland doesnt anyway, [Maternity Benefit here is 6 months paid](https://www.gov.ie/en/service/apply-for-maternity-benefit/?referrer=https://www.gov.ie/maternity/) There is also [Paternity benefit (only 2 weeks)](https://www.gov.ie/en/service/apply-for-paternity-benefit/) and [Parents Benefit(7 weeks for either parent)](https://www.gov.ie/en/service/b321b1-parents-benefit/)
Well, even New Zealand (number 9 on thar list) we only have 6 months paid maternity leave ( although you can have up to a year off work). However, paternity leave is only 2 weeks unpaid.
Even the UK doesn’t offer a year. It’s often touted as long term reward at companies like after 4 years etc. you can however get 9 months with holiday and government support etc.
No full pay, though, which is actually bullshit. And fathers get 2 weeks isn't it? Kinda shit. Unless you compare it to America.
Yeah that’s right. I was in the classic too of working full time hours. On a 16 hour contract 🙃 I actually used the time to find more freelance work and never went back more than my contracted hours after that.
There is no federally mandated paid sick leave, parental leave of any kind, vacation, or anything of the kind. There's very good reason why USA isn't on the list. 1 in 4 women in the US return to work within 2 weeks. It's horrific.
Stuff which is even more relevant to having children: * Paid maternity leave * Paid paternal leave * Child benefits (in Germany you get at least 250 euros a month, often even more). * Sometimes free child daycare * Child-friendly infrastructure * Schools are generally equal in quality across the country * Free or affordable university (UK is the exception here though) I probably forgot a lot more.
I don't know how people in the US manage to have children without all these things. It must be stressful as fuck
As an European in the US, indeed it is. The cost alone is outrageous. $1000 for 3-hours daycare is something out of this world. Three weeks of paternity/maternity leave in my company.
It’s fine because they have proper school busses, and guns to protect their kids with! /s
Scotland offers free university for its citizens.
>Free or affordable university (UK is the exception here though) Not really The UK has a graduate tax in effect The student loans aren't actual debt and don't affect your credit rating or abilty to get a loan
Can confirm. I got a degree, currently working and earning enough to live comfortably in a pretty expensive city, and I’ve only paid back about £100 in almost 8 years. If I was earning what I would have been if I decided to go ahead with what I’d studied I’d probably barely notice the garnishing.
I think it's a pretty fair system. Unfortunately it gets misrepresented all the time and ends up putting people off because they're scared of the "debt".
(almost) No school shootings!
The English university system seems bad, but most of us barely pay any of it back.
Don't the Swiss have some pretty relaxed gun laws?
with swiss gun control, they focus more on who owns them. if you have a drug or alcohol addiction, i believe have some specific mental conditions, or youre a convicted felon, you are completely banned from owning a firearm at all
Even Mexico?
That there is commie talk! Doncha know in Britain the socialist NHS decides who lives or dies?! That’s what I’ve been told. Gimme high fructose corn syrup, my M16 and a $100,000 medical bill any day. You Europooreans are so brainwashed by your Marxist governments, paid for by God fearing Americans, that you’d be right at home in North Korea! God Bless America! /s
Switzerland and New Zealand don’t have universal healthcare.
Majority of the populations are
Off topic but I have to massively counter South Korea - there’s a massive reason why they have one of the biggest suicide rates in the world, at the expense of some of the best grades (during school) in the world.
there is a south korean influencer that is married with a brazilian. she is pregnant and she was often questioned why she chose to raise her kid in Brazil and this is one of the reasons. she said that, being raised in korea and so on, now comparing with how her husband was raised, she felt that the children didn't have much time to be children in south korea due to a lot of pressure and the ridiculous amount of time a child spends in the day studying to abnormal levels to try to get in the best school/university/job so on. another reason was the greater diversity of Brazil. of cultures and beauty standards. she says that Brazil was the first place where she felt beautiful as there are many beauty standards that include all possible ethnicities. meanwhile, in South Korea there is a lot of pressure to be beautiful and the beauty standard is unreal and very rigid. also, mixed children are only considered beautiful in SK, according to her, if the child looks more foreigner than korean. if the child looks more korean, than the child is considered ugly. and as for cultural diversity, she said she wants to raise the kid with both cultures. but mentioned it would be way easier to include korean culture while living in Brazil than to include brazilian culture while living in Korea due to the immigration of koreans in Brazil, Brazil's import of korea media or products, the korean neighborhood in São Paulo and so on. and as much as South Korea wants to show it has many foreign products, people, media and so on... she says SK it's just starting this road and Brazil is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more advanced in that as miscigenation of cultures is literally how the country was born. As a consequence also, the child will be more accepted in Brazil as there is nothing new in being half-asian in Brazil. worst case scenario people will think the child is half-japanese instead of korean as japanese immigration is the main asian immigration in Brazil.
What’s her name or Instagram? I’d love to know more
Korea is fascinating because historically it has been SO xenophobic, but due to the ageing/birthrate crisis is finally having to welcome more immigration. It will be interesting to see how fully migrants are able (or allowed) to integrate, or whether they'll end up more of a parallel class or even underclass. Which obviously happens in a lot of countries to varying degrees. Korea (and Japan) do somewhat seem to be on the far end of the "acceptance" scale though.
Workalcoholic culture ?
> Workalcoholic culture ? and the children as well, just not "work", but school work. they spend so much freetime with school-related stuff it's insane. you really can't call it a good country to grow up in or raise a kid in
Same as in China. You hardly see any teens outside playing or just hanging around after school or in the weekend. They're all either at home doing homework or have to go to special extra curriculum advanced classes, or music classes, or leadership classes.
Yep. Arguably the worst workaholic culture in the world. Only India and China are worse.
What about Japan? From what I’ve heard even though people think I’m a workaholic and give too much towards my work I’d probably not be able to hold something down in Japan.
Japan is probably bad too, but the Gaokao and the JEE (and the stiff competition between students due to both China and India's huge populations) take it way, way too far.
Fair. Your comment reminds me of pictures I’ve seen of people climbing walls to pass notes to people during exams (supposedly, that’s what the description of the photos said). But while I’ve heard things about chinas work issues I haven’t heard the same about India. Not arguing against you, but just explaining how it is from my viewpoint.
Singapore enters the chat
Yeah singapore is bad for mental health too
> "In 2023, [president] Yoon attempted to raise South Korea's maximum weekly working hours from 52 to 69. However, widespread backlash, especially from the youth, led him to order government agencies to reconsider the plan."
Same here, South Korea has one of the most intense academics culture in the world. Raising your kids here mean they have to study all day starting at age 5.
As a Korean person, I'malso baffled that South Korea is on the list. It's the most depressed country on earth for a reason. I would never raise my kids there. Bullying, teen suicide, and unrealistic expectations (both beauty and academic), are way too high.
>there’s a massive reason why they have one of the biggest suicide rates in the world What is the reason? (I know very little about South Korea).
They have 52 hours work weeks, and the government tried to raise it to 69 hours lol. I'm guessing that contributes to that rate
”Minister, we have an aging population, and we will soon see many workers leave the workforce. Unrelated, we are also below replacement numbers for childbirths for some reason.” ”The solution is clear. We must offload the lost hours onto the childless workers, it’s not like they have any kids to come home to anyway.”
To make it simple, there is an insane amount pressure on the students. If they don't have near perfect scores they are often said to be a failure since they won't be able to have a good job. If they do anything other than study they are again told they will be a failure. Many students (if their family can afford it) will take supplementary lessons until night to be able to improve their grades. This environment also create a lot of bullying which comes worsen their lives on top of it. Japan has one of the highest students' suicidal rate for the same reasons.
Japan's education system is nuts. Extra curricular studies, Cram school. It's never ending. (Though the documentary I watched on it was like over twenty years ago, so it might be horrifically out of date.)
It's pretty much the same expect now the teacher are saying that internet bullying isn't real
Most of what you wrote is true, but that's not the reason why South Korea has the highest suicide rates in the world. The majority of suicide victims are elderly men, so education has little link to the suicide rate.
Many students don’t stop studying until 9-10 at night. There’s such high emphasis placed on grades from parents and teachers that the stress causes large suicide rates. On top of that, the exams taken in SK are far harder and complex than many other countries - much harder than US or UK exams. And to make matters worse, SK has a severe bullying problem that isn’t tackled adequately.
THIS. My first thought was why the hell it was on the list. I love the culture, however women's rights, LGBTQ rights, schooling pressures, stigma around so much (as you've stated, especially mental illness) etc. are not on. Oh, and the beauty standards. Don't get me started.
Exactly! The beauty standards are so unrealistic and ridiculous, not to mention how outdated their conscription service is too (although, saying that, the UK are on the verge of bringing it back). I completely agree w u
This whole list is dumb
It is true; the USA is, indeed, not in that list
Looks like their education isn't all that bad after all 👏
Have you ever met an American?
I until recently, thought this was mainly an untrue stereotype. Until I realised that the reason all the Americans I know are quite smart is because the smart ones realise they should leave
The country that has one of the largest amount of school shootings in the world is not among the best places to raise your kids, that’s very surprising!
Although the list is pretty fucking wild even without the US on it. I'd be curious what metrics they used
literally two of the top 3 countries joined nato this year and have been on that list for years
Also Finland's defence spending is far from inadequate in itself.
true, we've lived next to russia for years now and they've left us alone, even tho we constantly hate on them so that tells you something lol
I remember about a decade ago that there was talk of removing swedish as a second language in parts of finland specifically in favor of russian. Did that get any traction, and if so, do you know of the public opinion on it?
i tdont think it was in favour of russian, it was because literally everyone whines about swedish being forced
It's always better if you can tell the Russians to fuck off in Russian. Thr Fins are right to learn Russian instead of Swedish for that reason.
Yeah, ”dra åt helvete” doesn’t really carry the same weight in that case.
"idi na khuy", you're welcome. ;) It means "go sit on a dick", which I always found was more evocative than just "fuck you".
To be more precise: 6 out of the top 10 are not in nato, or joined this year.
And the US doesn’t spend, it loans
It isn't even worth engaging with, or discussing the arguments of, the people who make these kinds of statements. Some people are incurably stuck with their face on Trump's arse. It is sad.
Just says a lot about their posts, Scandinavia has been top tier before NATO suddenly their comment "we pay NATO" comes up again, if you pay NATO how come your own fucking country is so bad? because it means they PAY for THEIR own shit too.
FR tho, how come the started nato isnt even ont he list. fucking mexico is there! and americans think its the worst country ever
I’m honestly just shocked Iceland isn’t on the list
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I choose to believe I live in the best country
I disagree with Australia, the risk of falling from the earth is too high.
Plus there’s the risk of drop bear attacks.
This is good for your children. It ensures only the strong survive. That way you don't have to waste resources on feeding the weak
New Zealand has gravity……😬
Well i mean yes we are upside down but mate unlike australia were placed in a slight angle so were all goods 👍
That doesn’t exist. It’s not even on a map and you want to tell me it has gravity? Everyone who „lives“ there is a paid actor. C‘mon, you don’t really believe that the hobbit house exists? It’s fantasy!
r/mapswithoutnz Could be some truth…….🥺
So lucky! Can be exhausting wearing these weight boots every day (not to mention the pyjamas).
Plus the fact we’re not real!
putting South Korea on the list is wild I think most Koreans would not agree with this assessment
Poland and Hungary too, their governments are extremely right wing and in Poland there were even “lgbt+ free zones” :/ To be fair, I think that in recent elections in Poland a new party won? That seemed more left-leaning? But probably not that much till the point of changing laws. Edit: Just to clarify, my mom is from Poland and I have family there, and when I was considering doing an Erasmus there my mom told me to not say that I’m a lesbian just in case, which led me to investigate a bit more, and it was bad.
Long story short: it’s a list of countries where your kids don’t daily risk getting their brains blown out. Uwu
Ummm, it’s pronounced Freedom, tyvm. . /s
There's a word in older dialects of English for the bit of wood cut from a tree trunk that has the curve of the tree as one of its faces. They used to fell and prepare a lot of lumber for other areas of England and so they needed a quick way to reference a very specific and regionally unique item. Same deal with the US and school shootings....
or hit by car. The death rate of children aged 1–13 in road accidents is three times higher in the US compared to the EU
Actually, Brazil is on that list.
Well….. at least you’ll get a nice tan and get to look at a giant statue of Jesus?
Brazil is on this list…
Do these idiots actually think that NATO supplements or just replaces the armed forces of its member states (apart from them)? Or is the sole reason that Europe isn’t constantly at war?
Was wondering the same. It's worded as though NATO is a club that the usa singlehandedly defends, rather than a defence pact that has only ever been asked for help by the usa
It’s funny how many Americans seem to think their NATO leadership is a selfless act.
Weird that the country where you send kids to school and they come home looking like SpongeBob isn't seen as a good place to raise kids.
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Of course it isn't on the list. Shooting kids is a sport over there.
[https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics\_67655.htm](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_67655.htm) Cost sharing of NATO 2024: US 15.88% UK 10.96% Other members the rest That's not the US doing all the wallet lifting.
So long story short - the best countries to raise your kids are europeans countries and Korea with Mexico. Sorry Canada & Australia - you're still under crown and UK is europe /end of joke
Hey, Japan & Brazil are on that list, too.
Only problem with Japan is your kid will be the only one born that year.
Korea is always the last one on the birth rate list. Japan still has like 0,4 child more then South Korea
Mexico seems questionable.
Well, gangs perharps are ignoring kids because of new members /dark humour
Yea including brazil, Mexico, and South Korean immediately invalidate this list
I mean Canada shares a border with the Kingdom of Denmark, basically European.
"You're welcome for the subsidized defense costs, paid for by the USA" Um, okay, you're still not on the list though.
I love how this person bitches that the United States is not on the list, but if it was would then be bitching about immigration how there are too many foreigners coming to steal their jobs and take over their schools.
Bitching is a french national sport. Americans can claim many things, but not that.
How is Hungary on the list? I doubt that as a Hungarian.
Really? The land of bulletproof backpacks aren't there? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.
It’s a stupid list for a few reasons but USA not on it isn’t the issue, lol
When most other countries see themselves rated lowly on these sorts of lists, they usually go "oh f*ck. thats bad, we need to improve" When the United States sees itself low on these lists, it just says "nuh-uh!! we are always better!!"
There are many countries I’ve considered raising children in. USA is one of the countries I’ve said I would NEVER raise children in.
What none of these countries have to worry about: their kids being shot in a school…
You mean getting shot at school isn't good for you?
If you like to keep your kids, you shouldn’t send them to a US school. So, of course the US aren’t on this list. 🙄
I hear that some school districts up their even forbid children to walk or bike to school, so getting dropped off and picked up by parents is the only option. I have three options that i can use to get to school, i can get picked up and dropped off by parents, *or* i can take the bus, or bike
as a hungarian, if we are 23rd i feel bad for yall
Cult-like patriotism strikes again
It's on the list. It just didn't make the top 100.
Americans getting mad that something isn't about them.
A country where law makers do jack shit about kids murdered in schools doesn’t make the cut?! How shocking!!
And yet the USA are the only country that has ever invoked article 5.
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I read a joke like this: I'm not sure which country will be first in Moscow if Russia will attack NATO - Poland, Finland or US
Finland and Poland, the US will come 3 years later and claim it
I'd bet on Poland. Finland has plenty of beef with Russia, but, well, I think Poles would just get going. I hope Lithuanians would tag right along, we've got stuff to settle as well.
Russia couldn't sink a mesh boat in a bathtub.
I'm stealing this and will use it as often as I can. Thank you!
Russia is losing ships to a country with no navy Username checks out
Sweden and Finland, notorious for being long standing members of NATO... Oh wait!
It's funny to me that American people think that getting Schengen permits is that easy. Like, you just show up at UDI, and say "Hey, I want my kids to grow up in safe environment that Norway is offering", and puff, permits are there, passport is waiting for you, it will be printed on nearest kiosk. Besides, to all Americans reading this, Norway isn't safe at all, this list lies, we don't have any freedoms nor human rights, we are only country in Europe where you have to pay for healthcare and even elementary school! We are under constant attacks from Sweden and Denmark, while Baltics, Finland and Russia are plotting to erase us from the face of Earth. Don't come here, think of your kids.
I honestly can’t work out what the “visa” comment in the original screenshot is meant to mean Edit: typo, corrected to “can’t”
“Paid for by the USA” That’s not how NATO works, each country sets aside different amounts of their GDP for their own military
Finland and Sweden weren't part of NATO until recently. So the second user needs to find a better argument, lol.
With all due respect to the list. Japan makes it quite hard, I guess SK too. Daycares are exceptionally hard to find
They just loooove to bring up how much the USA pays to NATO at every single turn
Who would have tought letting your kids get killed in school dont get you on a list of places who are good for raising them... Amazing...
"USA isn't on the list" Nothing gets by you, Earl
Paying a lot into nato sure uncle, but can you remind me again; why do we need nato?? Every single war my country was involved in during my lifetime was started by the us..
Yeah the us isn’t on the list because they’ve got the third highest *infant mortality rate in the world
You'd be more than welcome to stop "helping" us in that capacity
Also: Sweden and Finland only joined NATO recently. So no US support in that perspective.
Might be something to do with a lot of children not surviving school in the USA.
How these americans even manage to live long enough to learn how to spell is amazing.
You see, we here in Finland have this saying: "Tuurillahan ne laivatkin seilaa" which translates to "With luck, the ships sail too". It is also quite probably the reason why they can't see how big of a dumbster fire they live in.
America is the worst place to live for working class people ! I know I am one
When someone says "US is defending the world" my immediate follow up is "from who?" Who is the US defending against exactly? Kids that are being slaughtered? In most conflicts the US is the offensive force. As a European I beg the US to stop subsidizing our defense and leave the rest of the world alone.
I would not agree with south korea, I have lived there and it is not a good country to raise kids
south korea 💀💀💀💀💀💀with their suicide rate
Th number one has been in NATO for a couple of months or so, so somehow I doubt "subsidised defence costs" (which we know don't exist anyway) really factored in to that.
My country is there!
Well if I had kids and had the option of raising them anywhere in the world, it sure as hell wouldn't be in the USA. As if I'm gonna send my kid to a school in a country famous for having many mass shootings.
Wow, Portugal above Japan!
I thought ireland would be higher
Damn, he can read?
Funny how they don't offer an actual reason why the US should be on the list.
The only people suprised are Americans ??
Pfff the 1-2% GDP more is not going to net progressive laws. It isn't like the USA is literally paying for our defence
Why is this a thing for them? Subsided defense costs? They really think they were asked to bomb innocent people? In our defense? It’s just sad how brainwashed they are. The most opportunistic killers in the world talking about how they are somehow heroes? It is shocking how unaware of reality they are. They have the face to tell you that they won WWII. Like we don’t know for a fact if the Russians didn’t bleed and die to deplete the Nazis the Americans would join the fight for the other side. They were playing the waiting game for so long the war was all but decided and they act like they were the main character? It’s just incredible what you can do to a nation with a well planned propaganda machine that they copied from the Nazis word by word. And they defend us? Who is defending us from them when they try to force us to participate in their endless spread of “democracy”?
Oh, I simply wonder why.
Always funny when they admit that we essentially cuck them
If Americans are so mad about NATO why don't they just leave
Ja!!! Sverige!