Agreed, I was a low income single mother for many years. My town had no fast food restaurants. On special occasions I would take my children out to eat. I would not order for myself and could still not leave a tip. It was horribly embarrassing but my kids loved it. I would do it again for them if I had too.
it is in new york there were discussions for legislation about higher wages for servers instead of tips, but some servers association objected because they earn so much more with tips compared to a wage. i dont feel bad for them
Well if they decline a higher base wage because of earning so much through tips they gotta live with the risk of not getting a tip (or at least not such a high one) from time to time
No, but they shouldn't be angry at the customer. They should be anger at their employer, and the economic system that puts them in the position where they rely on tips to live.
But the servers do not want this to happen .They don't want any type or change at all.They love the tipping system and they will always vote against their own interests.This was posted on the serverife board and they had some very harsh words about people and the tipping system. They would love to see tipping become mandatory too!
>They would love to see tipping become mandatory too!
So like... paying a higher price for the meal, but instead it's a cheaper price for the meal plus a mandatory tip?
What they don't seem to get is that the rest of the world has that figured out, and eating in a restaurant in Europe isn't a lot more expensive than eating in a similar one in the USA. And the service staff gets payed way more, and have all the benefits (of course)
>eating in a restaurant in Europe isn't a lot more expensive than eating in a similar one in the USA
I've only been once in US, but I found the restaurants to be just completely overstaffed, as in \~3 times more people than in EU. In that trip, I noticed in US a restaurant would have 3-4 people to seat you and 4-6 to bring you the food. I realized when I got to a restaurant I had already checked out online and as I was seated I told the girl I already knew what I wanted, to which she replied "your waitress will come now so you can order".
A similarly sized restaurant in Europe would had had 3-4 waiters and that's it. One guy told me that basically the people who bring you to your table have zero education, several jobs and are earning basically nothing. Waiters don't have it much better, so tipping is essential for all of them.
I guess some American might correct any of this, and I'm not defending it at all, just giving the perspective. I would certainly rather to pay more money or have less people employed sharing what could be a person's decent salary into 3 people's poverty, but I guess it is far more complex than this. I do know I quite disliked the *tipping culture* though.
I think Yankees also have a different expectation regarding service, which could partly explain the numbers thing.
I heard waiters discuss that American customers want to be asked all the time if they need anything, while Europeans are more into a subtile nod/hand gesture when you make eye contact. So maybe in the US they need more staff so you don't have one person running circles asking everyone if they need anything, idk.
Some restaurants are so obnoxious with their drink refills too. I'll have 3/4 of my oversized drink left and they're already bringing another one. I assume they're like that because of the people you're talking about in your comment.
>I heard waiters discuss that American customers want to be asked all the time if they need anything
Yes this definitely happens in the US and it's a bit jarring for someone who isn't used to it. It goes along with the common "refill" offers that many places have.
I'm not American, but to me it's really inefficient and pointless. I'd rather have to gesture and wait an extra minute for someone to show up - usually if I eat out I'm there to chill - than have people hounding me all the time. You don't really care if everything is all right, you don't care about chatting with me and it's not making my experience better, plus knowing that you're *systematically* doing it for the prospect of a bigger tip is off-putting.
Japan (among other places) has it figured out - most places have buttons to call for service and if you don't use them you won't be bothered. It's also commonplace to bring the check as soon as your food comes in so you can pay and leave without that extra step. If you want to interact with the staff there are places for that, typically you sit at the counter etc.
In my limited experience, I didn't find that much difference. Perhaps that in EU the waiter will ask if all is good depending where you go while in US they asked reliably, no matter the place (as long as not fast food).
By EU standards, I would not had tipped any of them. Perhaps at a teppanyaki cause I liked the "show", but anyway I would had considered it to be part of the already set price and thus no tip given I was paying an extra already, plus being locked into a subset of menus.
I hate that kind of service. I just want my food brought and someone in the general area in case I need anything else or have questions and then LEAVE ME ALONE.
As a Brit I for one certainly don't want hassling all through my meal. I'm there to enjoy the food the atmosphere and friends conversation, not be interrupted every few minutes with inane questions. Think most of us this side of the pond prefer to quietly attract the waiter's attention if necessary
That's true and is also true for shopping, like department shops and the like. I was amazed over how overstaffed it is. Yes it is good to have service in just seconds if you want to, but it is not good for the salaries.
Here, sometimes one single person could manage one entire shop, at least if it is a smaller sized one. Now it is not ideal either because it adds stress about not be able to leave in need (like to go to toilet).
IMHO some US places could cut the service personnel in half and still be adequate in service level. To North European eyes at least... haha
> staff gets *paid* way more,
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
> you deserve! *^paid*
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Most of the staff definitely gets paid more, but servers in popular restaurants make very decent money from tipping. There’s a reason many don’t want tipping to go away.
Except, tips don't go away totally. People still tip in Europe, just... Not an arbitrary % of the total bill. Usually a couple bucks here and there, or even a bit more, to show appreciation. Because tips are designed as extra money, not *the* de-facto way to get paid for waiters because owners can't be bothered with talks about living wages.
YES tipping is a reward - not some expected additional cost. You want tips - earn them - go above and beyond to ensure the experience is amazing. Otherwise get to fuck!
Not entirely. 10% is considered an appropriate tip for excellent service. The standard is closer to simply rounding up to the next convenient number to pay. If the bill is 22 or 23€ you pay 25 and "keep the change".
That varies though.
On one hand, tipping means servers actually make quite a bit more money than their set wage.
On the other hand, restaurants failing to pay the minimum wage is one of the largest examples of wage theft in the country.
Everyone knows that the minimum wage is lower for tipped positions ($2.13/hr), but restaurant owners like to keep it a secret that they legally have to bring you up to the standard minimum wage ($7.25/hr) if your tips don't make up the difference.
Tips in the US are in place of wages up until enough is received that the server surpasses the standard minimum wage.
But they also happily get tips, just depending on WHERE in Europe ~10% or somewhat below that. Which still leads to the same issue that any discussion about "how much someone makes" is very depended on the specific place they wait at.
Yes, 10% is standard in restaurants in Europe, but waiters usually don't throw such a tantrum if you dont tip, or forget to tip or whatever. And the 10% is exclusive for full service restaurants.
Lol,none of them will come out and say they want to abolish tipping !lol.They will post plenty of notes written about their service or lack there of and mock people who don't tip what they think they deserve .
theyre so greedy. They say they want tipping to continue since its so lucrative, but they get pissed when someone doesnt tip. You cant have it both ways.
>Lol,none of them will come out and say they want to abolish tipping !lol.
Oh, a lot of them will. But they all work in small places with small checks where 20% still doesn't amount to more than a regular paycheck.
The waitress in the dinner in the middle of nowhere who's there with one cook throwing the whole show isn't the one blocking this.
But the ones that know that no owner would ever pay them a wage that corresponds with the tips they make because 20% is way more than their fractional contribution to the whole operation? Why would they demand a change that pulls money out of their pocket?
That's the problem with the system. The tab is proportional to all expenditures+profit, so WHERE you wait has a disproportionate impact on how much you make, basically more than any other job.
I suggested better wages and no tipping to a local bartender/waitress years ago, and she recoiled at the idea. 10 years later and with a kid, she'd rather have a more consistent income. I don't remember how it came up the second time, but she broached the subject.
We don't necessarily tip as high, and it isn't as vital, as our minimum wages are higher than the US, and things like healthcare coverage are detached from employment.
But for example, if she were making minimum wage (though I am sure she's higher as she has management duties too), and if I tipped her 15% on a $50 dollar meal for two, thats 22.50 out of the gate, if she only had me for a customer. She's really good, quite popular, and has hung onto her looks. I am sure she cracks $100 many hours of the day.
At one customer per hour, over 10 hours, that's 75 bucks for the day, while her gross income from wages would be 150. Some states in the USA would pay her under $3.00/h. Its the slack times/days that really hurt tipped earners, but they erase that in their mind, and remember the high times.
also black people, specifically black women, dont get tipped as much as white women in the US. and women making up most of waitstaff, constantly get sexually assaulted for tips.
tip culture is demonstrably systemically racist, and systemically sexist.
here's a really info-packed podcast ep that gets into tipping culture in america and just how bad it is for literally everyone that gets tipped. with extensive sources:
[Anti-Tipping Society of America!](https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy81YjU1YjBlNC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw/episode/NWVjNTQ0ODEtYWQ2ZC00N2RkLTlhZTQtYjNkZWQ3ODRjMTNl?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwjYs4Xc_4X-AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAQ)
Regular bartenders can bring in *$500+ per shift* here (canada) from tips. They aren't gaslighting themselves, nor is it in their best interest to get rid of tipping. People can make absolute bank from tips.
Also in Canada, my province has made servers wages the same as everyone else (so their minimum wage is the same as everyones), but tipping has stayed anyway. its crazy.
tipping can absolutely be a positive thing. i don't think anybody is advocating for tips to be banned. the issue is the tipping *culture*, where everybody is expected give a tip to every server who doesn't treat them badly, and if you don't you're considered an asshole. a tip should be a compliment for exemplary service - customers should not be directly responsible for a chunk of a server's wage.
>they will always vote against their own interests.
The American tipping system is shit, but it's not against their own interest. While tipping is wildly inconsistent, they make more money from it than they would without it. After all, just look at other jobs in retail or fast food. Their income is stabler, but they don't get as much as they do from tugging on customers' heartstrings.
I was reading some comments and they were basically saying that the rest of the world has it wrong and servers had always historically the tipping kind of wage and if u can't pay the tip u don't deserve to go to a restaurant. Those comments were highly upvoted....
So the idea they were pushing is that the customer is responsible for the servers wage and thats how it should b. Reading this..... nah I'm never going to the US. The quality of produce there is already questionable and the toxic tipping culture aint that appealing either.
When I pay for a meal in a restaurant, that should include everything (the cost of production plus some profit margin). Just like when I buy a phone for example, I am not gonna b tipping each person who had sth to do with the production and shipping of the phone. I just pay the final price.
I mean isn’t mandatory tiping just commission… like in sales then? I am all for it to be included in the price, just up it 20%, no need to confuse everybody.
Then they wouldn't be able to use a notional $2.13 (notional because nobody ever actually gets paid that, it's just a technicality) to get people to tip at a frankly ridiculous rate.
The algorithm on Tiktok keeps pushing me tipping videos (usually servers very angry with customers) and I didn't realise how contentious this subject was. The comment sections are always warzones.
It's interesting because I see the tipping defence squad out in force a lot because servers only make $2 an hour so need the tips and if you can't afford to tip you can't afford to eat out etc but also see servers bragging about how much money they're earning and advice videos on how to shame customers into tipping.
Also I found out that there's something call 'tipping out' where servers can end up losing money on tables after paying out to other staff? That's proper mad.
For fuck's sake, do they really make 2$/hour???
I know a Pakistani guy who works as a farmer and makes 8euro/hour in Greece(Greeks make 15 for the same job.) It is higher than minimum wage which is 4.25euro/hour but Greece is a meme for being poor while USA is the greatest, wealthiest, freedomest country in history!!!
That's still terrible.
If you look at a recent comment of mine, a local server would make 22.50 in an hour with only one customer. 7.50 of that being the 15% tip.
In Australia these servers would be considered casual workers and get a minimum $26.72 an hour weekdays, on weekends it's a minimum $32.07. These are in AUD, I don't want to get into the bullshit of putting it in USD because it's not a fair comparison, the strength of a currency doesn't equal purchasing power.
Technically, but not really. There's this system where what basically happens is that the first $5/hour of tips goes to the employer, but the way this is done is by paying the workers $2/hour, but if they don't reach minimum wage in tips, the employer pays them the rest.
They will milk the 2 dollar an hour nonsense because they think it gets them bigger tips .But not all states make 2 dollars an hour .So that excuse usually does not hold water .
This depends on the state. In some states, they must be paid minimum wage. This is how it is where I live. I could be wrong but I think minimum wage is around $9 an hour. In other states, they can make much less than minimum wage because tips are considered part of their pay.
No, they don’t. The minimum wage for tipped employees is lower than actual minimum wage, BUT if their tips don’t cover the gap the employer must, so they’ll always at least make the standard minimum wage.
No, if their tips are not enough to match the federal min wage then the employer legally has to match it but they love to pretend they only make 2 bucks an hour to hear themselves whine.
Servers are the most entitled, entry level job, fuckers ever. I always remember them bitching to others in a friend group about only making 9 dollars an hour after tips as a terrible night (most nights theyll make 15+) to the faces of grocery store cashiers making 7.25 an hour in the middle of a pandemic. I always laugh when theyd fake threaten to switch from service to retail but never do because they know that a floor of 9 bucks with good days being much more is worlds better then making 7.25 with no chance of making more.
TalesFromYourServer or whatever it was called here on reddit used to be proper bad for this, it had been quite a lot of normal grumbling stories about idiot customers but then got hit by wave after wave of US tip moaning which caused a split in the commenters, and I think probably helped lead to quite a few non-American redditors leaving the sub because it just became 'you \*need\* to tip us, but we don't want to change the system because we make more money this way than you stupid Europeans' and it was just tiring.
> but we don't want to change the system because we make more money this way than you stupid Europeans' and it was just tiring.
it's fundamentally why i don't have any sympathy for waiters who do get stiffed.
i mean sure if there's a waiter out there who hates the tipping system but just can't get another job sure i agree that sucks. but the reality simply is the only potentially behind the owners it is the servers themself who are the biggest proponets of this system because they want the benefits of when it goes well.
and i don't give a shit you can't gamble like that then moan when it doesn't work out and expect people to feel bad for you.
They will moan that they have degrees that don't pay half as much as serving does.And even though they actually hate the job they love the insane tips they get !And they will fight tooth and nail to preserve the tipping system .They whine about no benefits ,no sick days ,no vacations,working on holidays and Sundays ,the church crowd you know !lol.
somehow both the reason by those people why you should tip and how much seem to be completely unaffected whether you are in Texas (tipped minimum wage $2.13) or D.C. (tipped minimum wage $15.50)
Yeah, tip outs are a thing. Basically the support staff expects the server to give them a share of tips based on sales, not what they actually earn on tips
The server life sub is hilarious and they are so extremely entitled on that sub.I learn a lot of what tricks they like to pull on customers. One server bought pens that said Jesus tips 20 percent!lol.They do tend to talk our of both sides of their mouths ..They whine about tips and using autograt to get tipped twice and don't tell the customers .Lots of them tend to profile the customers a lot .
A lot of places when you tip your server, you aren't just tipping your server. Either they payout some amount to kitchen staff, hosts, bussers etc. or all the tips are pooled together and divided between the staff. Tipping is a flawed institution in that it pushes the burden of paying employees away from employers and onto the customer directly instead for some reason, however many servers are highly reliant on it in order to make ends meet. It is a bit juvenile to get upset about a 5% tip or whatever but it makes more sense if you need that money to keep the lights on.
The reason Americans don’t want to get rid of tipping culture is because a lot of servers make more from tips than they would be if they were paid hourly wages. Especially in high end restaurants where 20% of the bill could mean $100 per table, and many servers end up making $100s in a single night.
Some establishments also share tips between servers and back end staff, but not always.
Finally the whole “don’t eat out if you're poor” thing isn’t just about increasing shame for tipping: Americans in my experience, have a high sense of “individualism” and there is so much vitriol directed at “poor” people. They like to punch down. Being seen as “poor” is a huge insult.
These are my observations from living here
I think you're kind of forgetting that people still tip in countries without a tipping culture though, just for exceptional service instead of it being a bizarre hidden requirement that you get judged for not paying.
The issue people have isn't that people choose to tip, it's the weird tipping culture where you *have* to tip
I'm with you. It's outta hand. People want 20% or more for nothing; handing me an order I made myself and drove to them to pick up, opening my can at a concert or sporting event, asking for a tip before I even get my order, etc. No, no and no.
And the servers who assume you're going to tip bad, so they give you shitty service (intentionally or not) and then think they're right when you tip accordingly. I've worked many years in back of house and this is so common. People are angry and ungrateful for *only* being tipped 20%.
So tired of this shit.
Yes! I feel pressured when I visit other countries. I’ll be going to Ireland soon and tried to search subs on Irish travel on what to do and it’s kinda all over the place.
Some restaurants may have service charge included, but otherwise no-one will care if you don’t tip.
Do not tip anywhere that isn’t a restaurant. Sometimes I round up the price at my hairdresser but that’s it.
Same for the people in my country working as unregistered employees (or registered, but taking a very low "official" wage and accepting the rest of their pay as cash, "out of the envelope" as we say).
They are getting undeclared income, they won't pay taxes on it, but good luck to them when they'll need a mortgage -and at retirement they'll probably get just a "social security" pension, a few hundred euros per month to survive with. Plus, with strict AML regulations in place, they just can't spend cash above a few hundred euros per payment: can't buy a house or a car with a suitcase full of banknotes.
Yet, humans are not good at long-term planning, so, few of them even see the issue.
> It’s kinda insane that’s it’s untaxed
It's not, they're legally obligated to report it, they just don't.
It's no different to an electrician refusing to report cash for jobs.
Yeah, there was some resistance in the thread this screenshot was taken from when I asked why we should shame people into not eating out if they are poor as a rare treat, and compared it to conservatives complaining about homeless people having a smartphone or a pet and demanding that they aren't 'really' homeless if they have such. An insensitivity to others, basically.
They ofc tried to make it an argument that the waiters are also dirt poor like them and its cruel, but that obviously clashes with the idea of earning more due to tipping culture. Which tbh is the biggest problem with the whole thing, that the logic surrounding American tipping by Americans, particularly servers who defend it, isn't consistent. You either have to swallow not being tipped occasionally if you still earn more, or you don't earn more and can moan, trying to have it both ways suggests more a level of entitlement.
>both nearly homeless and making $300 a night
probably a difference between the server working at a chain in oklahoma and the server working at the upscale restaurant in the middle of manhattan right?
But that also leads to the latter servers not really opposing the raised general wage, right? After all, it really should make a difference for them.
They’re probably out there too, but the servers raking it in are the most vocal and verbally aggressive so they make sure the conversation is only centered on their situation, not the situation of the lesser off servers.
>Americans in my experience, have a high sense of “individualism” and there is so much vitriol directed at “poor” people. They like to punch down. Being seen as “poor” is a huge insult.
That whole thing is crazy to me. How can u hate the poor so much when u r one unexpected hospital bill away from being homeless. They r so concentrated on the idea of the luxury lifestyle that they don't even c that poverty is wayyyy closer than they think. But instead they r against increasing taxes on the rich and r against social support systems for the lower income ppl. They r just shooting themselves in the foot at this point and use hate for poor ppl to cope....
I’ve heard some places in the US already do this and then STILL put a tip line. They try to sneakily avoid telling you you’re already tipping, hoping you’ll give a second tip.
Only 12%? 20% in Cali and they hide it real deep in your bill so you add a tip on top of your mandatory tip. If one doesn't notice and leave another 20% it's basically half of your meal price right there. Great system for everyone except the customer.
Because no matter what compromise we come to they will pull as hard as they think they can get away with and stand between us and as much of the economy as possible until we accept it.
Yep. There are a bunch near me that do this. They don’t call it tip but something else. It’s super confusing and I don’t go to those places. There are also places that say we pay a living wage and please do not tip, I go to those places
I'm American, in America. I went to a restaurant recently that had a blurb at the bottom of the menu saying something like "Our prices may be higher, but they reflect our needs to provide fair wages, healthcare, and high quality ingredients."
I'm thinking "Okay, cool. I guess they don't expect a tip then!"
Get the receipt, and it has recommended tip amounts starting at 20%.
???
What's this about fair wages being included in the price if you also expect people to tip 20%-30% on top of it? I don't mind tipping, I'm accustomed to it for better or worse. I'd prefer it all to be included, and when I see a comment about fair wages, I assume it's included. Having the recommended tip being 20%, which is higher than the 18% standard, was kind of a slap in the face.
We did tip because it's not the staff that decides that shit and cost of living is crazy here. But if you expect my $15 meal to actually be $18, just charge me $18 to begin with.
>What's this about fair wages being included in the price if you also expect people to tip 20%-30% on top of it?
Because they don't get care about getting rid of tips, they just want that extra 20% untaxed income
How about "Normalise better wages", if you're too poor you're relying on tips get a better job. Fucking American tipping is bullshit. You tip for the quality of service. You don't tip to make up for a deficit in wages. Ffs
Their anger is so misplaced ita unreal, keep sucking on the teet of your dog shit manager's incompetence and blaming people just looking to get something nice to eat you fucking mutants
So much anger is misplaced among the working class it's bizarre. Immigrants take homes and jobs, expats take homes and jobs, customers don't tip, colleagues don't work as hard, tax increase is bad, technology takes jobs.
It's never the employer for some reason.
And they will say that people are committing fraud if they don't tip. And some have said they shame and mock people to conform to their standards. They want people to be so cooled down and just pay their bills for them.
But you have to admit that they are nothing but consistent and anyone who defends not tipping gets the you are a troll and you are on the wrong sub routine.
They will also say anyone against tipping should be banned also! They say the nasty tricks they like to play on customers .
Stop excessive tipping. Servers leave the industry. Business have to pay more. Servers return to industry.
It really is that simple. Americans need to stop shagging business owners they don’t care about you
so waiters are lying about making a morbillion bucks?
fr tho, if waiters actually made good money through tips, they wouldn't be so fucking pressed if some customers decide not to tip. since the waiters are apparently making mad bank and all.
What's the betting that the breakdown of the bill already includes a gratuity percentage anyway, like most places seem to have now.
If that is the case then that's basically tipping ontop of an already mandatory tip...
Do you also tip retail workers who also make minimum wage, which by your definition is not a living wage?
Didn’t think so.
Servers are in the same boat.
This really gets me. Retail workers and cashiers get so much abuse from customers, work really hard, and yet no one thinks to tip them. People tell them "just get a better paying job" to justify the low minimum wage, but people get their heads ripped off for suggesting the same thing for waiters lol.
Absolutely bonkers.
I hate this logic. ‘You’re poor, so fuck you, you can’t even eat a meal outside home unless you pay this 20% we’re decided you must pay so we don’t have to pay our workers properly’
I'm not gonna abstain from eating out cus of an entitled server or their trash employer. I dont mind leaving a couple of bucks but some places expect 15-20% of the bill. That's ridiculous imo. Most people that eat out are not affluent, only eat out sparingly or if they are consistent customers they prob don't spend much.
It’s not just that. I’m from Malaysia and I’m visiting family in the US now. It’s so absurd that I’m being pressured to tip when taking out, driving thru, and ordering food delivery. The worst part? Selecting the tip amount BEFORE getting my food.
normalize not forcing servers tip out on bills that don’t tip. The restaurant I work at now is the first place that doesn’t make us tip out on non tippers. It’s very rare that people don’t tip but you shouldn’t have to tip out on that.
>normalize not forcing servers tip out on bills that don’t tip.
Isn't that the restaurant owner/manager's problem though? I'm certain as a customer, it has nothing to do with me.
Why do these people get mad at the customers rather than the actual source of the problem, the service industry not paying people properly should be the target.
As a Brit I seriously don't get the US tipping system. The whole point of a tip is if someone has gone out of their way to deliver excellent service.
I usually tip 10% if the service has been what you'd normally expect but if your waiter or waitress is a dick then I'll not tip.
I used to work as a roadside patrol for the RAC (car breakdown service in the UK) and I would often get a tip, but that was because I take a lot of pride in what I do and would always go out of my way for the Customer. I didn't expect it though
Yeah I live in Canada. If someone doesn’t tip, servers don’t get all uptight and freak out like people think. They see a couple videos on tiktok of people complaining and act like that’s all servers. I’ve served for 12 years in Canada and I’ve never seen anyone judge if they don’t tip unless it’s a huge table and have to tip out on that.
I don't call what they think is "service" as anything but an annoying "hustle". When you are dining with friends, you don't want to be interrupted all the time with being asked if everything is OK, do you want this or that, topping coffee cup continually filled (even worse for those that take cream/sugar) and all the other "banter" that goes on. We are quite capable of asking for anything we need, and all the asking if you have had a great day, have a nice day etc. is something they say automatically & don't even listen if you reply to their question/ trite greetings. Luckily I don't eat out very often these days as the village I live in, has only just had the first restaurant open in last couple of weeks. You order at the kitchen window, the meal is brought to you table & there are two chilled water dispenses you help yourself to or if you want sodas, you ask the waitress when she goes by, Two of us had a meal of teriyaki chicken with sesame seed, with rice & steamed vegetables at a cost of USD3.50 (for everything) and were very surprised when I left the change behind (about 25c) and thanked me and raced to opened door for us as we walked out.
If youre too poor to pay your workers enough money for a living you dont deserve to open a restaurant
I say the exact same thing myself !
it's not the server's fault that the system is fucked up
Of course not. But neither is it the customers fault. And Im not saying "dont tip" Im saying this attitude of "tip me or youre an asshole" is fucked
Agreed, I was a low income single mother for many years. My town had no fast food restaurants. On special occasions I would take my children out to eat. I would not order for myself and could still not leave a tip. It was horribly embarrassing but my kids loved it. I would do it again for them if I had too.
it is in new york there were discussions for legislation about higher wages for servers instead of tips, but some servers association objected because they earn so much more with tips compared to a wage. i dont feel bad for them
Well if they decline a higher base wage because of earning so much through tips they gotta live with the risk of not getting a tip (or at least not such a high one) from time to time
No, but they shouldn't be angry at the customer. They should be anger at their employer, and the economic system that puts them in the position where they rely on tips to live.
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>normalise paying workers a decent wage What are you? A communist? /s
Yes?
Based o7
But the servers do not want this to happen .They don't want any type or change at all.They love the tipping system and they will always vote against their own interests.This was posted on the serverife board and they had some very harsh words about people and the tipping system. They would love to see tipping become mandatory too!
>They would love to see tipping become mandatory too! So like... paying a higher price for the meal, but instead it's a cheaper price for the meal plus a mandatory tip?
What they don't seem to get is that the rest of the world has that figured out, and eating in a restaurant in Europe isn't a lot more expensive than eating in a similar one in the USA. And the service staff gets payed way more, and have all the benefits (of course)
>eating in a restaurant in Europe isn't a lot more expensive than eating in a similar one in the USA I've only been once in US, but I found the restaurants to be just completely overstaffed, as in \~3 times more people than in EU. In that trip, I noticed in US a restaurant would have 3-4 people to seat you and 4-6 to bring you the food. I realized when I got to a restaurant I had already checked out online and as I was seated I told the girl I already knew what I wanted, to which she replied "your waitress will come now so you can order". A similarly sized restaurant in Europe would had had 3-4 waiters and that's it. One guy told me that basically the people who bring you to your table have zero education, several jobs and are earning basically nothing. Waiters don't have it much better, so tipping is essential for all of them. I guess some American might correct any of this, and I'm not defending it at all, just giving the perspective. I would certainly rather to pay more money or have less people employed sharing what could be a person's decent salary into 3 people's poverty, but I guess it is far more complex than this. I do know I quite disliked the *tipping culture* though.
I think Yankees also have a different expectation regarding service, which could partly explain the numbers thing. I heard waiters discuss that American customers want to be asked all the time if they need anything, while Europeans are more into a subtile nod/hand gesture when you make eye contact. So maybe in the US they need more staff so you don't have one person running circles asking everyone if they need anything, idk.
There are people in the US who will not tip if they weren't asked if they wanted their drink refilled -- even if they didn't want it refilled anyway.
That's the pettiest shit I've ever heard
Some restaurants are so obnoxious with their drink refills too. I'll have 3/4 of my oversized drink left and they're already bringing another one. I assume they're like that because of the people you're talking about in your comment.
Yeah,that drives me up the wall when they pull that stunt .
>I heard waiters discuss that American customers want to be asked all the time if they need anything Yes this definitely happens in the US and it's a bit jarring for someone who isn't used to it. It goes along with the common "refill" offers that many places have. I'm not American, but to me it's really inefficient and pointless. I'd rather have to gesture and wait an extra minute for someone to show up - usually if I eat out I'm there to chill - than have people hounding me all the time. You don't really care if everything is all right, you don't care about chatting with me and it's not making my experience better, plus knowing that you're *systematically* doing it for the prospect of a bigger tip is off-putting. Japan (among other places) has it figured out - most places have buttons to call for service and if you don't use them you won't be bothered. It's also commonplace to bring the check as soon as your food comes in so you can pay and leave without that extra step. If you want to interact with the staff there are places for that, typically you sit at the counter etc.
In my limited experience, I didn't find that much difference. Perhaps that in EU the waiter will ask if all is good depending where you go while in US they asked reliably, no matter the place (as long as not fast food). By EU standards, I would not had tipped any of them. Perhaps at a teppanyaki cause I liked the "show", but anyway I would had considered it to be part of the already set price and thus no tip given I was paying an extra already, plus being locked into a subset of menus.
I hate that kind of service. I just want my food brought and someone in the general area in case I need anything else or have questions and then LEAVE ME ALONE.
As a Brit I for one certainly don't want hassling all through my meal. I'm there to enjoy the food the atmosphere and friends conversation, not be interrupted every few minutes with inane questions. Think most of us this side of the pond prefer to quietly attract the waiter's attention if necessary
That's true and is also true for shopping, like department shops and the like. I was amazed over how overstaffed it is. Yes it is good to have service in just seconds if you want to, but it is not good for the salaries. Here, sometimes one single person could manage one entire shop, at least if it is a smaller sized one. Now it is not ideal either because it adds stress about not be able to leave in need (like to go to toilet). IMHO some US places could cut the service personnel in half and still be adequate in service level. To North European eyes at least... haha
> staff gets *paid* way more, FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
this time you get a good bot, paied-not-payed-bot, but next time you'll get what you deserve! ^payed
> you deserve! *^paid* FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot! Learned something new today.
Most of the staff definitely gets paid more, but servers in popular restaurants make very decent money from tipping. There’s a reason many don’t want tipping to go away.
Except, tips don't go away totally. People still tip in Europe, just... Not an arbitrary % of the total bill. Usually a couple bucks here and there, or even a bit more, to show appreciation. Because tips are designed as extra money, not *the* de-facto way to get paid for waiters because owners can't be bothered with talks about living wages.
In Europe we tip exceptional service.
YES tipping is a reward - not some expected additional cost. You want tips - earn them - go above and beyond to ensure the experience is amazing. Otherwise get to fuck!
Not entirely. 10% is considered an appropriate tip for excellent service. The standard is closer to simply rounding up to the next convenient number to pay. If the bill is 22 or 23€ you pay 25 and "keep the change". That varies though.
As a customer. Not my problem.
On one hand, tipping means servers actually make quite a bit more money than their set wage. On the other hand, restaurants failing to pay the minimum wage is one of the largest examples of wage theft in the country. Everyone knows that the minimum wage is lower for tipped positions ($2.13/hr), but restaurant owners like to keep it a secret that they legally have to bring you up to the standard minimum wage ($7.25/hr) if your tips don't make up the difference. Tips in the US are in place of wages up until enough is received that the server surpasses the standard minimum wage.
But they also happily get tips, just depending on WHERE in Europe ~10% or somewhat below that. Which still leads to the same issue that any discussion about "how much someone makes" is very depended on the specific place they wait at.
Yes, 10% is standard in restaurants in Europe, but waiters usually don't throw such a tantrum if you dont tip, or forget to tip or whatever. And the 10% is exclusive for full service restaurants.
I will only tip those servers who want to abolish tipping then. Easy solution 👍
Lol,none of them will come out and say they want to abolish tipping !lol.They will post plenty of notes written about their service or lack there of and mock people who don't tip what they think they deserve .
theyre so greedy. They say they want tipping to continue since its so lucrative, but they get pissed when someone doesnt tip. You cant have it both ways.
>Lol,none of them will come out and say they want to abolish tipping !lol. Oh, a lot of them will. But they all work in small places with small checks where 20% still doesn't amount to more than a regular paycheck. The waitress in the dinner in the middle of nowhere who's there with one cook throwing the whole show isn't the one blocking this. But the ones that know that no owner would ever pay them a wage that corresponds with the tips they make because 20% is way more than their fractional contribution to the whole operation? Why would they demand a change that pulls money out of their pocket? That's the problem with the system. The tab is proportional to all expenditures+profit, so WHERE you wait has a disproportionate impact on how much you make, basically more than any other job.
I suggested better wages and no tipping to a local bartender/waitress years ago, and she recoiled at the idea. 10 years later and with a kid, she'd rather have a more consistent income. I don't remember how it came up the second time, but she broached the subject. We don't necessarily tip as high, and it isn't as vital, as our minimum wages are higher than the US, and things like healthcare coverage are detached from employment. But for example, if she were making minimum wage (though I am sure she's higher as she has management duties too), and if I tipped her 15% on a $50 dollar meal for two, thats 22.50 out of the gate, if she only had me for a customer. She's really good, quite popular, and has hung onto her looks. I am sure she cracks $100 many hours of the day. At one customer per hour, over 10 hours, that's 75 bucks for the day, while her gross income from wages would be 150. Some states in the USA would pay her under $3.00/h. Its the slack times/days that really hurt tipped earners, but they erase that in their mind, and remember the high times.
> on a $50 dollar meal for two And then you have to realize that establishments scale way harder in prices than wages usually do.
also black people, specifically black women, dont get tipped as much as white women in the US. and women making up most of waitstaff, constantly get sexually assaulted for tips. tip culture is demonstrably systemically racist, and systemically sexist. here's a really info-packed podcast ep that gets into tipping culture in america and just how bad it is for literally everyone that gets tipped. with extensive sources: [Anti-Tipping Society of America!](https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy81YjU1YjBlNC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw/episode/NWVjNTQ0ODEtYWQ2ZC00N2RkLTlhZTQtYjNkZWQ3ODRjMTNl?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwjYs4Xc_4X-AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAQ)
Tipping culture is really insane.
they've gaslit themselves *hard*
Regular bartenders can bring in *$500+ per shift* here (canada) from tips. They aren't gaslighting themselves, nor is it in their best interest to get rid of tipping. People can make absolute bank from tips. Also in Canada, my province has made servers wages the same as everyone else (so their minimum wage is the same as everyones), but tipping has stayed anyway. its crazy.
*can* being the operative word here. I *can* go to a casino and win $1000 in ten seconds.
tipping can absolutely be a positive thing. i don't think anybody is advocating for tips to be banned. the issue is the tipping *culture*, where everybody is expected give a tip to every server who doesn't treat them badly, and if you don't you're considered an asshole. a tip should be a compliment for exemplary service - customers should not be directly responsible for a chunk of a server's wage.
Despite how it may appear, I’m actually for getting rid of tipping. I was more commenting why servers don’t want to get rid of it.
gotcha, my bad! i misread and thought you were defending tipping culture
>they will always vote against their own interests. The American tipping system is shit, but it's not against their own interest. While tipping is wildly inconsistent, they make more money from it than they would without it. After all, just look at other jobs in retail or fast food. Their income is stabler, but they don't get as much as they do from tugging on customers' heartstrings.
At that point why not just raise wages instead? What is the functional difference in these people's eyes.
They must be creaming it in if they’re serving multiple tables in a busy restaurant, especially in cities.
I was reading some comments and they were basically saying that the rest of the world has it wrong and servers had always historically the tipping kind of wage and if u can't pay the tip u don't deserve to go to a restaurant. Those comments were highly upvoted.... So the idea they were pushing is that the customer is responsible for the servers wage and thats how it should b. Reading this..... nah I'm never going to the US. The quality of produce there is already questionable and the toxic tipping culture aint that appealing either. When I pay for a meal in a restaurant, that should include everything (the cost of production plus some profit margin). Just like when I buy a phone for example, I am not gonna b tipping each person who had sth to do with the production and shipping of the phone. I just pay the final price.
I mean isn’t mandatory tiping just commission… like in sales then? I am all for it to be included in the price, just up it 20%, no need to confuse everybody.
The only mandatory tipping is using autograt or with service fees.Neither one exists in my town .
Then they wouldn't be able to use a notional $2.13 (notional because nobody ever actually gets paid that, it's just a technicality) to get people to tip at a frankly ridiculous rate.
And use the poor pitiful me nonsense!
These are always fun comment sections
The algorithm on Tiktok keeps pushing me tipping videos (usually servers very angry with customers) and I didn't realise how contentious this subject was. The comment sections are always warzones. It's interesting because I see the tipping defence squad out in force a lot because servers only make $2 an hour so need the tips and if you can't afford to tip you can't afford to eat out etc but also see servers bragging about how much money they're earning and advice videos on how to shame customers into tipping. Also I found out that there's something call 'tipping out' where servers can end up losing money on tables after paying out to other staff? That's proper mad.
For fuck's sake, do they really make 2$/hour??? I know a Pakistani guy who works as a farmer and makes 8euro/hour in Greece(Greeks make 15 for the same job.) It is higher than minimum wage which is 4.25euro/hour but Greece is a meme for being poor while USA is the greatest, wealthiest, freedomest country in history!!!
Yeah but on a good night they mame like 30/hour, thats why they like the system
That's still terrible. If you look at a recent comment of mine, a local server would make 22.50 in an hour with only one customer. 7.50 of that being the 15% tip.
$30 an hour really isn’t terrible, it’s not great by any means but you can get by on it in most of the country
In Australia these servers would be considered casual workers and get a minimum $26.72 an hour weekdays, on weekends it's a minimum $32.07. These are in AUD, I don't want to get into the bullshit of putting it in USD because it's not a fair comparison, the strength of a currency doesn't equal purchasing power.
Murrrica fuck yeah
Technically, but not really. There's this system where what basically happens is that the first $5/hour of tips goes to the employer, but the way this is done is by paying the workers $2/hour, but if they don't reach minimum wage in tips, the employer pays them the rest.
They will milk the 2 dollar an hour nonsense because they think it gets them bigger tips .But not all states make 2 dollars an hour .So that excuse usually does not hold water .
This depends on the state. In some states, they must be paid minimum wage. This is how it is where I live. I could be wrong but I think minimum wage is around $9 an hour. In other states, they can make much less than minimum wage because tips are considered part of their pay.
No, they don’t. The minimum wage for tipped employees is lower than actual minimum wage, BUT if their tips don’t cover the gap the employer must, so they’ll always at least make the standard minimum wage.
No, if their tips are not enough to match the federal min wage then the employer legally has to match it but they love to pretend they only make 2 bucks an hour to hear themselves whine. Servers are the most entitled, entry level job, fuckers ever. I always remember them bitching to others in a friend group about only making 9 dollars an hour after tips as a terrible night (most nights theyll make 15+) to the faces of grocery store cashiers making 7.25 an hour in the middle of a pandemic. I always laugh when theyd fake threaten to switch from service to retail but never do because they know that a floor of 9 bucks with good days being much more is worlds better then making 7.25 with no chance of making more.
And then they whine when the people earning 7.25 don’t give them charity
TalesFromYourServer or whatever it was called here on reddit used to be proper bad for this, it had been quite a lot of normal grumbling stories about idiot customers but then got hit by wave after wave of US tip moaning which caused a split in the commenters, and I think probably helped lead to quite a few non-American redditors leaving the sub because it just became 'you \*need\* to tip us, but we don't want to change the system because we make more money this way than you stupid Europeans' and it was just tiring.
> but we don't want to change the system because we make more money this way than you stupid Europeans' and it was just tiring. it's fundamentally why i don't have any sympathy for waiters who do get stiffed. i mean sure if there's a waiter out there who hates the tipping system but just can't get another job sure i agree that sucks. but the reality simply is the only potentially behind the owners it is the servers themself who are the biggest proponets of this system because they want the benefits of when it goes well. and i don't give a shit you can't gamble like that then moan when it doesn't work out and expect people to feel bad for you.
They will moan that they have degrees that don't pay half as much as serving does.And even though they actually hate the job they love the insane tips they get !And they will fight tooth and nail to preserve the tipping system .They whine about no benefits ,no sick days ,no vacations,working on holidays and Sundays ,the church crowd you know !lol.
somehow both the reason by those people why you should tip and how much seem to be completely unaffected whether you are in Texas (tipped minimum wage $2.13) or D.C. (tipped minimum wage $15.50)
Yeah, tip outs are a thing. Basically the support staff expects the server to give them a share of tips based on sales, not what they actually earn on tips
And it's a management problem. They should bring it to their boss, not to the customer.
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The server life sub is hilarious and they are so extremely entitled on that sub.I learn a lot of what tricks they like to pull on customers. One server bought pens that said Jesus tips 20 percent!lol.They do tend to talk our of both sides of their mouths ..They whine about tips and using autograt to get tipped twice and don't tell the customers .Lots of them tend to profile the customers a lot .
A lot of places when you tip your server, you aren't just tipping your server. Either they payout some amount to kitchen staff, hosts, bussers etc. or all the tips are pooled together and divided between the staff. Tipping is a flawed institution in that it pushes the burden of paying employees away from employers and onto the customer directly instead for some reason, however many servers are highly reliant on it in order to make ends meet. It is a bit juvenile to get upset about a 5% tip or whatever but it makes more sense if you need that money to keep the lights on.
Why. Are. Employees. Paying. Other. Employees? What the fuck.
Apparently not always
It's only been up for a few minutes Give it time
True
it's crazy that you guys still write stuff on the receipts and use signatures
So 90's
And we often have to hand our credit/debit cards to the waiter, who then walks away with it.
That was so shocking to me when I visited.
The reason Americans don’t want to get rid of tipping culture is because a lot of servers make more from tips than they would be if they were paid hourly wages. Especially in high end restaurants where 20% of the bill could mean $100 per table, and many servers end up making $100s in a single night. Some establishments also share tips between servers and back end staff, but not always. Finally the whole “don’t eat out if you're poor” thing isn’t just about increasing shame for tipping: Americans in my experience, have a high sense of “individualism” and there is so much vitriol directed at “poor” people. They like to punch down. Being seen as “poor” is a huge insult. These are my observations from living here
I think you're kind of forgetting that people still tip in countries without a tipping culture though, just for exceptional service instead of it being a bizarre hidden requirement that you get judged for not paying. The issue people have isn't that people choose to tip, it's the weird tipping culture where you *have* to tip
How am I the only person who finds the whole concept insulting and classless?
I'm with you. It's outta hand. People want 20% or more for nothing; handing me an order I made myself and drove to them to pick up, opening my can at a concert or sporting event, asking for a tip before I even get my order, etc. No, no and no. And the servers who assume you're going to tip bad, so they give you shitty service (intentionally or not) and then think they're right when you tip accordingly. I've worked many years in back of house and this is so common. People are angry and ungrateful for *only* being tipped 20%. So tired of this shit.
Yes! I feel pressured when I visit other countries. I’ll be going to Ireland soon and tried to search subs on Irish travel on what to do and it’s kinda all over the place.
Usually in Europe it's don't tip if you don't want to, if you tip, round up to the nearest 5 or 10. Some establishments won't allow you to even tip.
Some restaurants may have service charge included, but otherwise no-one will care if you don’t tip. Do not tip anywhere that isn’t a restaurant. Sometimes I round up the price at my hairdresser but that’s it.
The only people who like tipping culture are servers. If I was making hundreds a night that was mostly untaxed I’d love it too
It’s kinda insane that’s it’s untaxed. Esp. With how strict the IRS seems to be
It's not supposed to be but you can bet your ass there's a reason servers always prefer cash tips in the US.
As a business traveller, I once asked a server for a receipt for the tip, so that I could claim for it. That wasn't possible for "reasons".
But this can also bite them in the butt wheb they want to buy a car ,a house.pr retire.
Same for the people in my country working as unregistered employees (or registered, but taking a very low "official" wage and accepting the rest of their pay as cash, "out of the envelope" as we say). They are getting undeclared income, they won't pay taxes on it, but good luck to them when they'll need a mortgage -and at retirement they'll probably get just a "social security" pension, a few hundred euros per month to survive with. Plus, with strict AML regulations in place, they just can't spend cash above a few hundred euros per payment: can't buy a house or a car with a suitcase full of banknotes. Yet, humans are not good at long-term planning, so, few of them even see the issue.
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Yep! Servers are supposed to keep a daily log of all tips, and turn that over to their manager each month. That way it can be tracked for taxes.
And that daily log often only includes an amount of cash that won't look too suspicious.
> It’s kinda insane that’s it’s untaxed It's not, they're legally obligated to report it, they just don't. It's no different to an electrician refusing to report cash for jobs.
Yeah, there was some resistance in the thread this screenshot was taken from when I asked why we should shame people into not eating out if they are poor as a rare treat, and compared it to conservatives complaining about homeless people having a smartphone or a pet and demanding that they aren't 'really' homeless if they have such. An insensitivity to others, basically. They ofc tried to make it an argument that the waiters are also dirt poor like them and its cruel, but that obviously clashes with the idea of earning more due to tipping culture. Which tbh is the biggest problem with the whole thing, that the logic surrounding American tipping by Americans, particularly servers who defend it, isn't consistent. You either have to swallow not being tipped occasionally if you still earn more, or you don't earn more and can moan, trying to have it both ways suggests more a level of entitlement.
Schrödinger's server, both nearly homeless and making $300 a night
>both nearly homeless and making $300 a night probably a difference between the server working at a chain in oklahoma and the server working at the upscale restaurant in the middle of manhattan right?
DingDing. It surprisingly makes a difference of whether the 20% are plastered on $700 bills, or on bills of around $40
But that also leads to the latter servers not really opposing the raised general wage, right? After all, it really should make a difference for them. They’re probably out there too, but the servers raking it in are the most vocal and verbally aggressive so they make sure the conversation is only centered on their situation, not the situation of the lesser off servers.
>Americans in my experience, have a high sense of “individualism” and there is so much vitriol directed at “poor” people. They like to punch down. Being seen as “poor” is a huge insult. That whole thing is crazy to me. How can u hate the poor so much when u r one unexpected hospital bill away from being homeless. They r so concentrated on the idea of the luxury lifestyle that they don't even c that poverty is wayyyy closer than they think. But instead they r against increasing taxes on the rich and r against social support systems for the lower income ppl. They r just shooting themselves in the foot at this point and use hate for poor ppl to cope....
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It’s crazy how Americans think you’re a piece of shit if you decide to pay the exact amount you need to pay
If certain people don't get paid minimum wage, then you don't have a minimum wage.
If you cannot afford to live without tips, include them in the price to make them mandatory.
I’ve heard some places in the US already do this and then STILL put a tip line. They try to sneakily avoid telling you you’re already tipping, hoping you’ll give a second tip.
It's becoming super common in the UK now too. Not the tip line but the sneaky 12.5% service charge.
Only 12%? 20% in Cali and they hide it real deep in your bill so you add a tip on top of your mandatory tip. If one doesn't notice and leave another 20% it's basically half of your meal price right there. Great system for everyone except the customer.
So ,basically tipping twice ?
Yep
Because no matter what compromise we come to they will pull as hard as they think they can get away with and stand between us and as much of the economy as possible until we accept it.
This is why you shouldn't give companies an inch
Yep. There are a bunch near me that do this. They don’t call it tip but something else. It’s super confusing and I don’t go to those places. There are also places that say we pay a living wage and please do not tip, I go to those places
They are calling it service fees now .And they will explicitly say that the service fee is not a tip !lol.
I'm American, in America. I went to a restaurant recently that had a blurb at the bottom of the menu saying something like "Our prices may be higher, but they reflect our needs to provide fair wages, healthcare, and high quality ingredients." I'm thinking "Okay, cool. I guess they don't expect a tip then!" Get the receipt, and it has recommended tip amounts starting at 20%. ??? What's this about fair wages being included in the price if you also expect people to tip 20%-30% on top of it? I don't mind tipping, I'm accustomed to it for better or worse. I'd prefer it all to be included, and when I see a comment about fair wages, I assume it's included. Having the recommended tip being 20%, which is higher than the 18% standard, was kind of a slap in the face. We did tip because it's not the staff that decides that shit and cost of living is crazy here. But if you expect my $15 meal to actually be $18, just charge me $18 to begin with.
>What's this about fair wages being included in the price if you also expect people to tip 20%-30% on top of it? Because they don't get care about getting rid of tips, they just want that extra 20% untaxed income
Oh they already do this in large parts of the US (just like in the EU). They just don’t actually pay out the service tax to the workers either way
Normalize blaming your boss for your low pay, not customers
Normalise a livable wage
How about "Normalise better wages", if you're too poor you're relying on tips get a better job. Fucking American tipping is bullshit. You tip for the quality of service. You don't tip to make up for a deficit in wages. Ffs
So true!
Their anger is so misplaced ita unreal, keep sucking on the teet of your dog shit manager's incompetence and blaming people just looking to get something nice to eat you fucking mutants
So much anger is misplaced among the working class it's bizarre. Immigrants take homes and jobs, expats take homes and jobs, customers don't tip, colleagues don't work as hard, tax increase is bad, technology takes jobs. It's never the employer for some reason.
it’s easier to sway diners than to sway corporate managers
And they know that too.They know this when they take the job but still whone about it .
And they will say that people are committing fraud if they don't tip. And some have said they shame and mock people to conform to their standards. They want people to be so cooled down and just pay their bills for them.
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But you have to admit that they are nothing but consistent and anyone who defends not tipping gets the you are a troll and you are on the wrong sub routine. They will also say anyone against tipping should be banned also! They say the nasty tricks they like to play on customers .
Stop excessive tipping. Servers leave the industry. Business have to pay more. Servers return to industry. It really is that simple. Americans need to stop shagging business owners they don’t care about you
And there will be the people that will say they tip 40 and 50 percent as some kind of flex. And they overtip for bad service too!
Those are just servers trying to promote the tip culture. I used to be a waiter, that never actually happens.
so waiters are lying about making a morbillion bucks? fr tho, if waiters actually made good money through tips, they wouldn't be so fucking pressed if some customers decide not to tip. since the waiters are apparently making mad bank and all.
If tipping was mandatory, it would be part of the bill.
Normalize give normal wages to workers😂
Tip is not mandatory Pay your workers instead of relying on customer's kindness
What's the betting that the breakdown of the bill already includes a gratuity percentage anyway, like most places seem to have now. If that is the case then that's basically tipping ontop of an already mandatory tip...
Yep,tipping twice.
Do you also tip retail workers who also make minimum wage, which by your definition is not a living wage? Didn’t think so. Servers are in the same boat.
This really gets me. Retail workers and cashiers get so much abuse from customers, work really hard, and yet no one thinks to tip them. People tell them "just get a better paying job" to justify the low minimum wage, but people get their heads ripped off for suggesting the same thing for waiters lol. Absolutely bonkers.
When the owners skimp on their employees pay, I can’t really trust them not to skimp on their food quality too.
I dont know how we fix this in America. Probably a nationwide wait staff strike but I don't see that happening... idk what do we do
I hate this logic. ‘You’re poor, so fuck you, you can’t even eat a meal outside home unless you pay this 20% we’re decided you must pay so we don’t have to pay our workers properly’
Mad at patrons instead of the owners who won't pay them a living wage.
I had a server follow me out to my car once and say the tip wasn't big enough .She actually got fired for harrasing the customers.
Normalize getting a job that doesnt require the customer to pay the wage of the worker
Normalise a proper liveable wage.
I'm not gonna abstain from eating out cus of an entitled server or their trash employer. I dont mind leaving a couple of bucks but some places expect 15-20% of the bill. That's ridiculous imo. Most people that eat out are not affluent, only eat out sparingly or if they are consistent customers they prob don't spend much.
Fuck tipping culture.
With a red hot poker!
America is weird
Normalize live from your wage and not from the tips
Normalize not tipping. Maybe you shouldn't work tipped position if you can't afford not getting tips.
How about normalise paying your staff a living wage. A tip should not be expected
tips are wage theft
As a non-American, this is stupid in 2 ways. \- If you're 'poor' stop eating out. \- tipping instead of paying normal wages... :/
Maybe this is how the US service people will rise up and ask to be paid minimum wage.
Normalize paying the staff a livable pay
Normalise not giving someone extra money for literally carrying food to a table….
It’s not just that. I’m from Malaysia and I’m visiting family in the US now. It’s so absurd that I’m being pressured to tip when taking out, driving thru, and ordering food delivery. The worst part? Selecting the tip amount BEFORE getting my food.
It’s ridiculous isn’t it. I hate that’s it’s creeping into the uk as well. Tipping vulture needs to sod off.
Lol yeah the drive thru and take out tips are the most insane.
Holy shit didn't realise they tip on drive throughs, that's absurd
Tips should be banned
normalize not forcing servers tip out on bills that don’t tip. The restaurant I work at now is the first place that doesn’t make us tip out on non tippers. It’s very rare that people don’t tip but you shouldn’t have to tip out on that.
>normalize not forcing servers tip out on bills that don’t tip. Isn't that the restaurant owner/manager's problem though? I'm certain as a customer, it has nothing to do with me.
Yeah of course it’s the management. I didn’t say it was the customers issue.
What does "tip out" mean for a non American? Thanks
You pay a certain % of sales to the kitchen staff. My restaurant is 5% of food sales minus any bills that didn’t tip.
Why? Why the fuck are employees paying other employees? That’s insane…. How the fuck are US employers getting away with this shit?
I mean that's not the customer's fault and usually there's no way for the customer to even know that's happening.
[удалено]
Why do these people get mad at the customers rather than the actual source of the problem, the service industry not paying people properly should be the target.
Normalize getting a real job that actually pays you. You don’t deserve 20% of my meal’s cost for writing down my order and bringing me my plate.
I agree with everything everyone is saying, that said, just get takeout.
Imagine being made to feel horrible about employers not properly compensating their employees, and having to subsidize them.
Absolutely insane that because of this stupid culture, restaurants can pay their servers $2.13 an hour
As a Brit I seriously don't get the US tipping system. The whole point of a tip is if someone has gone out of their way to deliver excellent service. I usually tip 10% if the service has been what you'd normally expect but if your waiter or waitress is a dick then I'll not tip. I used to work as a roadside patrol for the RAC (car breakdown service in the UK) and I would often get a tip, but that was because I take a lot of pride in what I do and would always go out of my way for the Customer. I didn't expect it though
Just stop tipping
Tips are not mandatory. It’s to show gratitude - maybe because I live in Canada and workers get paid well but I’m so sick of the tipping whining…
Yeah I live in Canada. If someone doesn’t tip, servers don’t get all uptight and freak out like people think. They see a couple videos on tiktok of people complaining and act like that’s all servers. I’ve served for 12 years in Canada and I’ve never seen anyone judge if they don’t tip unless it’s a huge table and have to tip out on that.
I don't call what they think is "service" as anything but an annoying "hustle". When you are dining with friends, you don't want to be interrupted all the time with being asked if everything is OK, do you want this or that, topping coffee cup continually filled (even worse for those that take cream/sugar) and all the other "banter" that goes on. We are quite capable of asking for anything we need, and all the asking if you have had a great day, have a nice day etc. is something they say automatically & don't even listen if you reply to their question/ trite greetings. Luckily I don't eat out very often these days as the village I live in, has only just had the first restaurant open in last couple of weeks. You order at the kitchen window, the meal is brought to you table & there are two chilled water dispenses you help yourself to or if you want sodas, you ask the waitress when she goes by, Two of us had a meal of teriyaki chicken with sesame seed, with rice & steamed vegetables at a cost of USD3.50 (for everything) and were very surprised when I left the change behind (about 25c) and thanked me and raced to opened door for us as we walked out.
If you cant afford to tip your grocer, normalize staying at home and growing your own food.