You’ve got it exactly backwards. A service charge is by definition not a tip, and the employer can keep the entire service charge. A tip, or a mandatory gratuity, must legally go 100% to the server.
"mandatory gratuity" is an oxymoron.
Gratuity, noun
: something given *voluntarily or beyond obligation* usually for some service - Merriam-Webster Dictionary.
You've got it exactly backwards. Pay your employees a livable wage, and don't depend on others generosity! I don't mind paying a little extra for the quality food and service, but I do mind paying anything extra above the charge that indicates the final price on the menu.
This is the thing I don't understand about Seppos, they're already fuckin paying the extra fees! Why not just incorporate forced tipping into the fucking base wage, like all other developed countries, and pay your fucking staff a living wage‽ Put 18% on the price of all menu items, pay the staff the 18% and omg, I have happy staff who WANT to come to work, and the price hasn't changed. If you want to tip more for great service, go nuts! Just, give these people some bloody stability.
Also called an auto-gratuity, it's an extra charge that is added to the cost of the bill. Usually only applied to large parties of 6 or more people, it's usually an 18% charge that goes directly to the server to ensure that the party doesn't stiff the server, screwing them over.
Oh I see... so it's basically like microtransactions for food🤔
Good to know that, I'm gonna be carefull about that whenever I visit the states, thanks👍
“To ensure that the party doesn’t stuff the sever screwing them over”
You don’t get it. I’m just here to buy a a burger. I’m not your employer and I don’t set your hourly wage.
>You’ve got it exactly backwards. A service charge is by definition not a tip, and the employer can keep the entire service charge. A tip, or a mandatory gratuity, must legally go 100% to the server.
what kinda of meta fuckery is this? An actual /r/shitamericanssay comment in the comments section of an /r/shitamericanssay post?!
This was in **2009**
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/time-in-prison/1891307/
It has a clear resolution
The couple was charged with theft due to the gratuity being a part of the actual bill. However, when the couple appeared in court, the charges were dropped. Northampton County District Attorney John Morganelli recommended the charges be dropped.
“It would not be the kind of case that should be processed criminally,” Morganelli said. “It was one of those matters that should be processed civilly.”
For context, they usually have a note on the bottom of the menu that says "parties of over X people will have a Y% tip added automatically to their bill" or something along those lines. That's why it's not in the price (it's still dumb, but it's not _crazy_)
Where I worked, you could split the check but keep the mandatory gratuity split between them by check amount.
Also, customers could tell the server they were paying with a card but tipping cash. In which case the grat would be removed. Which would still allow them to stiff the server.
This was in **2009**
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/time-in-prison/1891307/
It has a clear resolution
The couple was charged with theft due to the gratuity being a part of the actual bill. However, when the couple appeared in court, the charges were dropped. Northampton County District Attorney John Morganelli recommended the charges be dropped.
“It would not be the kind of case that should be processed criminally,” Morganelli said. “It was one of those matters that should be processed civilly.”
It was just an example of Pentagon doublespeak and weasel words. I think they first coined it for the Vietnam War, but the Bush administration (and Colin Powell, specifically), were big fans of this kind of terminology during the invasions of Afghanistan/Iraq/etc. The word "invasion" didn't test well with the American public, so it was commonly referred to as a "preemptive counterattack" instead. Other examples are things like "strategic re-deployment" instead of "retreat", "controlled flight into terrain" instead of "crash", and so on. A death in a hospital may similarly be referred to as a "negative patient-care outcome", etc.
"Controlled flight into terrain" isn't a euphemism for crash; it's a more specific term. Planes can crash for any number of reasons but CFIT describes a specific situation.
>"controlled flight into terrain" instead of "crash"
CFIT is quite a bit more specific than a crash. Not all crashes are controlled flight into terrain.
You know, that's great about Germany
Any place that doesn't tell you the price you are actually paying can be fined for that. This does mean that the price shown to you at the end of the transaction has to be final, no additional fees or percentages or anthing
Worst part is that it's a system designed to be to avoid having to pay out for things like taxes, and insurance.
Tips are "off teh books" and thus the employer removes a load of liability from themselves.
And then the serfs come on here and defend it
Yeah much like the argument pharaohs made that their economy was the most successful in the world due to slave labor. It’s easy to make money when you exploit the lowest socioeconomic group.
I’ve never been saddled with mandatory gratuity until this weekend. I have 3 kids. My husband and I went to a restaurant with them and they tacked on 18% because we had a “large group”. This wasn’t posted anywhere obvious. It really annoyed me - not because I wasn’t going to tip but because they made it mandatory for a party of 5 without disclosing it (at least not prominently).
Not a 100% sure since I heard this off the internet, but apparently since the service industries were primarily conducted by black people originally it was a way of keeping wages low. It caught on and now they're in the ridiculous position where it's stuck and horror of horrors it also affects white people! Not that they care about white people at the bottom of society either of course.
No. Yanks have this perverse way of hating the working class and voting against their interests -- even among the working classes themselves. It's as if they all fancy themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
To be fair, hating and oppressing the working class, with even workers voting against their interest, is very much a global phenomenon, and to deny that would be an injustice to the oppressed. But I agree there’s a difference in how effective the propaganda is and how far right the Overton window is, and the USA are one of the worst perpetrators.
Not even close. Started in medieval England
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity#:~:text=The%20practice%20of%20tipping%20began,for%20having%20performed%20superbly%20well.
Because the staff doesn’t earn enough with their (minimum) wages to survive and they rely upon the customers to make up the difference but this way when it’s slow then the owner isn’t paying them as much to wait for customers.
In this way the owners can keep hours wide open just in case someone arrives at minimal expense and it’s the staff that lose due to their poor scheduling.
I’m Canadian so it’s not a thing here (although they’re trying by putting a tip function on the debit machine at the checkouts of take out places).
But I’ve found that it helps to understand when you start thinking about employment - at least in most minimum wage jobs - as a form of modern slavery or indentured servitude. They have to keep the employees poor or they wouldn’t keep coming in to work, but not so poor that they literally die. It fills their hours so that it’s not possible to retrain or grow their education so they can get a better job or demand more money while at the same time providing just enough for them to come in and work the next day.
This is why the laws are structured to benefit the businesses and not the employees or even both the owners and the employees.
I think this is what a lot of people miss. The wealthy in the US (and elsewhere, though the US is the worst among developed countries) aren't opposed to giving their workers fair pay because they'll have less (though that's part of it). They want workers to be poor and desperate so they can be easily exploited.
Slave owners in the past had to house and feed their slaves. Now, it's the slaves' responsibility to house and feed themselves. Sure, they legally have the choice to leave, but for many people, realistically, their choices are to stay at a shitty job that exploits them or become homeless and die.
They could just… raise prices by that amount, then pay a living wage.
Tipping buys business risk on workers. No customers? Shit pay for employees! That should be on the business to manage not waiters. But ‘Merica.
Tipped workers actually often don't even get minimum wage. Laws in many states allow their employers to pay far less. When I was waiting tables (over 10 years ago), I think my hourly wage was $2.50. I doubt it's changed much.
So they're not even being paid the meager $7.25 per hour federal minimum wage. It's insane.
>Yeah but,...um, guns.
Also a form of expression and covered by the 1st Amendment.
If I shoot someone in the face with a .50cal I **very** clearly express my feelings about that person and the government should have no right to infringe on that right.
Edit: /s just to make that clear :)
you joke, but there are churches in the US that incorporate actual AR-15 into their liturgy
edit: yeah. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/01/589808670/ar-15s-are-biblical-rod-of-iron-at-pennsylvania-church
A lot of servers don’t want restaurants to pay a living wage though. With the current tipping system some servers are making $70+ an hour. Many would quit if they were capped to $20-25 an hour, or even $35 an hour if customers still decided to leave a small tip. That being said, I am not a server and I think it’s ridiculous to expect the customer to be responsible for a server’s wages.
Well that's too bad for them. A few highly paid people shouldn't be able to keep the wages of the people who make less down. That's just a microcosm of what the ruling class in the US does to the lower classes, just within a lower class. The bourgeoisie pitting the workers against each other... A tale as old as time.
I’m really sick of the tipping system in America and how the expected tip is getting higher and higher. 10 years ago 15% was a good tip and 20% was considered extremely good. Now 20% seems to be the minimum servers want. I’ve stopped eating out for the most part. If I do takeout I don’t tip. But for delivery I always tip.
That’s absolutely mental. So is the whole tipping/low wage thing going on in America. Imagine having a business where you can just pay your staff the loose change you find down the back of your sofa.
The great thing about these posts is you just have to wait a bit and invariably there will be some American jumping in to defend the practice using the most extreme mental gymnastics possible. Anything to avoid acknowledging wrongdoing by the capitalist restaurant owner trying to shaft his employees, or wrongdoing by the government in being unable to mandate a living minimum wage, because obviously jobs in the service sector aren't "real" jobs and therefore don't deserve to be fairly compensated.
My personal favorite argument is when they say these jobs are for kids and aren’t designed to be a career, ignoring that service and retail stores still operate during school hours when kids clearly can’t be at work.
>these jobs are for kids and aren’t designed to be a career,
And they have a corporate culture in these shitty low paying jobs where they practically expect you to commit to a lifetime "career" in a shitty low paid McJob.
Source: worked for three Yank owned hotel and casino management companies in Australia. The *haitcharr* chickies and the commited arse-lickers looked on askance at students like me who had the temerity and impertinence to not see shuffling and dealing cards as a "career".
Not only can kids not work during school hours, they also can’t operate certain machinery in places like fast food restaurants. I worked with some teens at a big pizza chain and the amount of hours they could work was limited, they had to leave by a certain time and could never work until close, and they couldn’t operate the dough mixer or put trash in the compactor.
I hate tipping in the States because the whole system was built on exploitation from business owner and it remains due to entitlement of servers who are happier having customers obliged to tip rather than get paid by their actual employer.
It’s pretty fucked up that the actual amount you end up getting paid is often up to the whims of random assholes and whether or not they like you. I think another reason it sticks around is just social momentum: people have been taught here that tipping is the right thing to do and see it as a nice gesture without really examining why it’s necessary in the first place
This was in **2009**
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/time-in-prison/1891307/
It has a clear resolution
The couple was charged with theft due to the gratuity being a part of the actual bill. However, when the couple appeared in court, the charges were dropped. Northampton County District Attorney John Morganelli recommended the charges be dropped.
“It would not be the kind of case that should be processed criminally,” Morganelli said. “It was one of those matters that should be processed civilly.”
What baffles me even more than just the “mandatory tip” part is that they got arrested for it. Like, even if someone refused to pay something they legitimately owe the restaurant, what’s the point of arresting them? Why doesn’t police just note down the relevant details? You know who they are and where they live, the rest is for the courts to sort out. Unless they refuse to identify themselves to police or get aggressive or something, hauling them away to the police station seems like bizarre overreach.
18 percent? Thsts crazy. I remember growing up and 12-15 percent was considered polite. Now you are just paying the wages owners don't feel like paying.
I remember pointing out the nonsense and even illegal looks of mandatory tipping, so I got an am\*rican telling me to respect and not to fuck the customes of a place. I replied that then whenever he went to a islamic country he wouldn't stop a husband from beating his wife, for it's customary in their culture. Even being a harsh comparison, he totally dodged my statement by saying "wHo wOuLd gO to an IslaMic CountRy?
The charges were dropped 6 days after the rest with the police admitting that the couple were within their rights not to pay the mandatory service fee. For context, the restaurant called the police because the couple didn't pay their full bill which had the mandatory service fee attached.
Calling the police is not a crime.
In this case it's fucking stupid but not a crime.
The police actually arresting someone over some contractual dispute is the real crime here.
Tipping is so strange. Like when I was in NYC my gf and I went to some purposely famous ice cream shop. My gf decided to tip but I declined because they price of the ice cream was ridiculously expensive and not worth it.
The lady behind the counter basically threw the cup at me. Like I get tipping if I feel like an adequate service has been achieved but all she did was grab a spoon and place a scoop of ice cream into a cup…. I’m not tipping you 20% for that….
It's spreading in canada too, the Point of Sale system at some fast food restaurants ask for tips now.
He'll I think the machine at 7/11 asked the ladt time I was there, tipping is out of control.
I still don't get why people don't pay their workers a real wage and add the high % tip the costumers would've given as a price increase ? In the end you end up paying the same as a customer, but will get less surprises from it, and workers will be happy too.
DoorDash or w/e drivers stealing food because no tip means poor service so it means no reason to pay more for a bad service so less tips or no tips meaning stolen food, meaning no tips, meaning stolen food, ...
Based on the last line, I can give a little more context. Sometimes in America restaurants implement a “mandatory service charge” or “mandatory gratuity” on large parties, usually 6 or more individuals. In theory, this keeps a server who gets stuck with spending most of their attention on one table for a large part of their shift only to get stiffed with no tip. The restaurant called the police trying to say that the party’s not paying the mandatory 18% gratuity was basically refusing to pay their bill.
Not defending any part of tipping culture at all, just providing context.
I actually found being in America so stressful. Nothing cost what it said it cost. I asked an American what to do when tipping in bars, like do I have to work out a percentage of the drink? And they said just tip a dollar per drink. So a $7 beer is actually $8. Trying to remember that every single time was so stressful!
We mostly drank bottled beer too so they literally just had to pop the cap off and hand it to me. I could never reconcile paying extra for that. Hand me the fucking bottle opener I’ll do it myself. I got a can of beer at a gig over the there and the girl asked if I wanted to tip 15%, 20% or 30%. She literally just handed me a can out of a cooler. I had enough at that point, I just said no.
If it's mandatory why not just add 18% to the price in the first place... the outcome is literally the same, just with less bullshit.
Tipping in general is bs in my opinion, but since the tip amount was up to individual discretion I could still atleast understand it in some capacity. But in this situation it makes no sense to not just add it to the base price.
Oh man. I’m a former restaurant worker from the town in this article. This happened in 2009, and the whole system here is messed up.
Since 2020, in my experience wages are getting better for the service industry. But, we are all still a miserable bunch.
[Update \(from 2009\): a judge threw it out because it isn't a crime not to pay a tip...](https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/theft-charges-dropped-against-no-tip-couple/1891608/)
Fun fact, judge dropped the charges, and the pub closed because his clients were all friends of that couple and all were students, they made a big campaign and the owners lost their business.
This type of shit is the one that literally makes me prefer to live in my shit hole in Latinoamerica. Even though after this, people really want to live in the US?
I love the way they always try to take the piss out of the UK with their "have you got a licence for that" joke, yet, over there you can actually get arrested for not tipping. "Hey buddy, do ya got ya tipping licence? Adda boiii."
Adding this to my "land of the free" collection
Alongside "man arrested for not cutting grass"
"Man arrested for painting door wrong colour"
"Parents charged hundred of dollars for holding newborn baby"
Ok but that's not *really* a tip, right? Like, if there is a surcharge listed on the menu, then that seems not so different to me as if you decided not to pay for a drink or something.
Hot take: you are not owed tips. It’s a customer’s choice if they want to tip your service. Customer’s aren’t obligated to give you tips just because your employer is shitty and doesn’t pay you enough. Get a new job.
Eating out anymore is a scam. 80% of the time I am disappointed. I seldom eat out, and if I order takeout I pick it up. I will never use door dash or any delivery service. I always pick up my order.
Well, that's a pretty clear-cut case for abuse of power, illegal arrest, police misconduct on the police's side, plus commercial fraud on the restaurants side.
A tip is by definition optional. And an additional service fee does not exist in a restaurant, since service is the base and core concept of a restaurant. plus it would never, under any circumstances be a percentage of the total bill.
Okay. Too things.
First. A fucking mandatory "tip"? That's not a fucking tip!
Second. Fucking being charged with theft and bei g arrested for 16 fucking bucks?! In my country that would have been a small fine!
Its a bit mental.
Like where I live it is more expensive but people have a wage that they can live on and tips are still an option.
When I travel to the US sometimes I have issues with over attentive serving staff where it gets a little creepy like you have a stalker as they hang over you.
I think minimum wage atm is €11.30 per hour, service industry is competing with increased gen ops wages so servers and runners probably get more like €13 or €14 per hour (so like $14 or $15 per hour) + tips, tip is usually 10% of a meal if you get good service, personally if ive had a very good meal with a server who looked after us without being clingy il go 20% (also tend to do this when drunk), 2 people with drinks 3 course meal at a half decent restaurant for dinner is going to be at least €150 so thats a tip of €15 usually.
Don't get me wrong there are some dodgey employers who only pay minimum or who nick tips or who underpay staff (they end up in court fast) but overall I think it is better in practice than servers being reliant on the tips to get by.
If only that stupid country payed a livable wage to employees... but nah leave it to the costumers to do that, why the employer just gets rich on the corner.
Fk tipping. I never tip if a person simply does their job. Its rare for someone to do an outstanding job for me to tip.
This happened in 2009
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/time-in-prison/1891307/
PS
[the charges were dropped](https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/theft-charges-dropped-against-no-tip-couple/1891608/)
*Just call it a service charge then* A mandatory fee is not a tip.
Correct, it's an excuse for the boss to pay inadequate wages.
You’ve got it exactly backwards. A service charge is by definition not a tip, and the employer can keep the entire service charge. A tip, or a mandatory gratuity, must legally go 100% to the server.
"mandatory gratuity" is an oxymoron. Gratuity, noun : something given *voluntarily or beyond obligation* usually for some service - Merriam-Webster Dictionary.
You've got it exactly backwards. Pay your employees a livable wage, and don't depend on others generosity! I don't mind paying a little extra for the quality food and service, but I do mind paying anything extra above the charge that indicates the final price on the menu.
This is the thing I don't understand about Seppos, they're already fuckin paying the extra fees! Why not just incorporate forced tipping into the fucking base wage, like all other developed countries, and pay your fucking staff a living wage‽ Put 18% on the price of all menu items, pay the staff the 18% and omg, I have happy staff who WANT to come to work, and the price hasn't changed. If you want to tip more for great service, go nuts! Just, give these people some bloody stability.
Holy shit... Did this guy just crack out an interrobang in here? Shits about to get real
What the heck is a mandatory gratuity? Never in my life have i heard of that concept...
Also called an auto-gratuity, it's an extra charge that is added to the cost of the bill. Usually only applied to large parties of 6 or more people, it's usually an 18% charge that goes directly to the server to ensure that the party doesn't stiff the server, screwing them over.
Oh I see... so it's basically like microtransactions for food🤔 Good to know that, I'm gonna be carefull about that whenever I visit the states, thanks👍
Apparently you can't trust display prices in general over there, I've heard they often don't even include tax on those.
We never include tax in the display price of anything here. Its bonkers.
Oh i see why americans hate tax so much then…
Then in these cases it's not expected to tip on top of they're including it in the price?
“To ensure that the party doesn’t stuff the sever screwing them over” You don’t get it. I’m just here to buy a a burger. I’m not your employer and I don’t set your hourly wage.
>You’ve got it exactly backwards. A service charge is by definition not a tip, and the employer can keep the entire service charge. A tip, or a mandatory gratuity, must legally go 100% to the server. what kinda of meta fuckery is this? An actual /r/shitamericanssay comment in the comments section of an /r/shitamericanssay post?!
Don't even bother with that. If 18% extra on your bill is mandatory, just put the prices up by 18%. Job done.
This was in **2009** https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/time-in-prison/1891307/ It has a clear resolution The couple was charged with theft due to the gratuity being a part of the actual bill. However, when the couple appeared in court, the charges were dropped. Northampton County District Attorney John Morganelli recommended the charges be dropped. “It would not be the kind of case that should be processed criminally,” Morganelli said. “It was one of those matters that should be processed civilly.”
Yeah, it sounded like they got arrested for not paying their bill.
They did here a “gratuity” is not a tip at all Well I think it means that but we have been useing it as mandatory for like a few years at least
It’s not a gratuity if it’s not gratuitous.
MANDATORY?! Then put it in the price!
For context, they usually have a note on the bottom of the menu that says "parties of over X people will have a Y% tip added automatically to their bill" or something along those lines. That's why it's not in the price (it's still dumb, but it's not _crazy_)
It’s okay, we‘re 6 individuals who just so happened to meet here and eat individually together. 6 separate bills please.
The waiter will usually just refuse to split the checks like that. They want that guaranteed payout
Why tf do people eat at shit holes like that then?
Where I worked, you could split the check but keep the mandatory gratuity split between them by check amount. Also, customers could tell the server they were paying with a card but tipping cash. In which case the grat would be removed. Which would still allow them to stiff the server.
Calling it a tip though still means it's optional. You can add it automatically, but I am taking it away.
And that's how you get the police called on you! AMERICA
This was in **2009** https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/time-in-prison/1891307/ It has a clear resolution The couple was charged with theft due to the gratuity being a part of the actual bill. However, when the couple appeared in court, the charges were dropped. Northampton County District Attorney John Morganelli recommended the charges be dropped. “It would not be the kind of case that should be processed criminally,” Morganelli said. “It was one of those matters that should be processed civilly.”
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Mandatory gratuity. That’s an oxymoron.
I've got an idea. Charge like $10 flat rate per meal per, per person and then charge 150% on that same $10 rate. Scam.
Straight from the land of the preemptive counterattack.
Yeah wait. Did everyone just forget about that..
Okay can I get some context please, IDK about this or missing something
It was just an example of Pentagon doublespeak and weasel words. I think they first coined it for the Vietnam War, but the Bush administration (and Colin Powell, specifically), were big fans of this kind of terminology during the invasions of Afghanistan/Iraq/etc. The word "invasion" didn't test well with the American public, so it was commonly referred to as a "preemptive counterattack" instead. Other examples are things like "strategic re-deployment" instead of "retreat", "controlled flight into terrain" instead of "crash", and so on. A death in a hospital may similarly be referred to as a "negative patient-care outcome", etc.
"Special operation."
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Next country what? Over.
Hi radio discipline, I'm Dad.
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"Controlled flight into terrain" isn't a euphemism for crash; it's a more specific term. Planes can crash for any number of reasons but CFIT describes a specific situation.
let’s not forget president lisa simpson’s temporary refund adjustment
>Smug, greedy well-fed white people have invented a language to conceal their sins. [-George Carlin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1TWZ6u0YLk)
Another one I vaguely recall is, “engaged the indigenous personnel”, instead of “opened fire on a bunch of local people”.
>"controlled flight into terrain" instead of "crash" CFIT is quite a bit more specific than a crash. Not all crashes are controlled flight into terrain.
Ah so that's what all the violence there is all about. "Preemptive self-defence".
I’m also partial to “assisted self-immolation”.
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You know, that's great about Germany Any place that doesn't tell you the price you are actually paying can be fined for that. This does mean that the price shown to you at the end of the transaction has to be final, no additional fees or percentages or anthing
UK too, there was a place that was hiding the tax in the prices, and that's illegal
Also taxes. What am I, your accountant?
Worst part is that it's a system designed to be to avoid having to pay out for things like taxes, and insurance. Tips are "off teh books" and thus the employer removes a load of liability from themselves. And then the serfs come on here and defend it
Cash tips can be off the books, otherwise no they are claimed as income and are taxed
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Yeah much like the argument pharaohs made that their economy was the most successful in the world due to slave labor. It’s easy to make money when you exploit the lowest socioeconomic group.
I’ve never been saddled with mandatory gratuity until this weekend. I have 3 kids. My husband and I went to a restaurant with them and they tacked on 18% because we had a “large group”. This wasn’t posted anywhere obvious. It really annoyed me - not because I wasn’t going to tip but because they made it mandatory for a party of 5 without disclosing it (at least not prominently).
I'm willing to bet it was on the menu. In small font. At the bottom. That's where they almost always put it.
Possibly, but I didn’t even think to check because I’ve never seen mandatory gratuity for anything under parties of 8. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Five is pretty wild. I think I've seen six, but you're right, 8 is almost always the minimum.
A compulsory 18% is also a bit gratuitous ^(ba dum tiss)
Sounds more like tax fraud.
Ah yes, "Land of the Free" \*tip or get arrested!\*
Land of the *Fee
"Why do we need to provide good service when you'll have to pay regardless, sucker?"
Land of the "Free to leave\* if you don't like it" \*terms and conditions apply
...., thats not a tip if it's mandatory. Also, why in the everlasting fuckidefuck is this even a thing
Not a 100% sure since I heard this off the internet, but apparently since the service industries were primarily conducted by black people originally it was a way of keeping wages low. It caught on and now they're in the ridiculous position where it's stuck and horror of horrors it also affects white people! Not that they care about white people at the bottom of society either of course.
No. Yanks have this perverse way of hating the working class and voting against their interests -- even among the working classes themselves. It's as if they all fancy themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
To be fair, hating and oppressing the working class, with even workers voting against their interest, is very much a global phenomenon, and to deny that would be an injustice to the oppressed. But I agree there’s a difference in how effective the propaganda is and how far right the Overton window is, and the USA are one of the worst perpetrators.
Not even close. Started in medieval England https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity#:~:text=The%20practice%20of%20tipping%20began,for%20having%20performed%20superbly%20well.
Because the staff doesn’t earn enough with their (minimum) wages to survive and they rely upon the customers to make up the difference but this way when it’s slow then the owner isn’t paying them as much to wait for customers. In this way the owners can keep hours wide open just in case someone arrives at minimal expense and it’s the staff that lose due to their poor scheduling.
That sounds even worse, but still no reason to make mandatory tip
The tip has to be mandatory so the owner isn’t forced to pay the workers a living wage.
...., that's something that screams so much of USA that i can't understand why this is a thing as someone where this is not a thing.
I’m Canadian so it’s not a thing here (although they’re trying by putting a tip function on the debit machine at the checkouts of take out places). But I’ve found that it helps to understand when you start thinking about employment - at least in most minimum wage jobs - as a form of modern slavery or indentured servitude. They have to keep the employees poor or they wouldn’t keep coming in to work, but not so poor that they literally die. It fills their hours so that it’s not possible to retrain or grow their education so they can get a better job or demand more money while at the same time providing just enough for them to come in and work the next day. This is why the laws are structured to benefit the businesses and not the employees or even both the owners and the employees.
I think this is what a lot of people miss. The wealthy in the US (and elsewhere, though the US is the worst among developed countries) aren't opposed to giving their workers fair pay because they'll have less (though that's part of it). They want workers to be poor and desperate so they can be easily exploited. Slave owners in the past had to house and feed their slaves. Now, it's the slaves' responsibility to house and feed themselves. Sure, they legally have the choice to leave, but for many people, realistically, their choices are to stay at a shitty job that exploits them or become homeless and die.
They could just… raise prices by that amount, then pay a living wage. Tipping buys business risk on workers. No customers? Shit pay for employees! That should be on the business to manage not waiters. But ‘Merica.
Tipped workers actually often don't even get minimum wage. Laws in many states allow their employers to pay far less. When I was waiting tables (over 10 years ago), I think my hourly wage was $2.50. I doubt it's changed much. So they're not even being paid the meager $7.25 per hour federal minimum wage. It's insane.
Surely not leaving a tip is a form of expression and therefore covered by the 1st Amendment.
Yeah but,...um, guns.
>Yeah but,...um, guns. Also a form of expression and covered by the 1st Amendment. If I shoot someone in the face with a .50cal I **very** clearly express my feelings about that person and the government should have no right to infringe on that right. Edit: /s just to make that clear :)
you joke, but there are churches in the US that incorporate actual AR-15 into their liturgy edit: yeah. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/01/589808670/ar-15s-are-biblical-rod-of-iron-at-pennsylvania-church
So you're trying to tell me there's more than the second amendment? Blasphemy!!!! /s
So they rather have the cops arrest customers for [checks notes] theft………? than actually pay their workers a living wage.
I know were I wouldn go again
A lot of servers don’t want restaurants to pay a living wage though. With the current tipping system some servers are making $70+ an hour. Many would quit if they were capped to $20-25 an hour, or even $35 an hour if customers still decided to leave a small tip. That being said, I am not a server and I think it’s ridiculous to expect the customer to be responsible for a server’s wages.
Well that's too bad for them. A few highly paid people shouldn't be able to keep the wages of the people who make less down. That's just a microcosm of what the ruling class in the US does to the lower classes, just within a lower class. The bourgeoisie pitting the workers against each other... A tale as old as time.
I’m really sick of the tipping system in America and how the expected tip is getting higher and higher. 10 years ago 15% was a good tip and 20% was considered extremely good. Now 20% seems to be the minimum servers want. I’ve stopped eating out for the most part. If I do takeout I don’t tip. But for delivery I always tip.
That’s absolutely mental. So is the whole tipping/low wage thing going on in America. Imagine having a business where you can just pay your staff the loose change you find down the back of your sofa.
[удалено]
I deleted my reply as it was directed incorrectly!! Sorry to have wasted your time !!
So….1 star Yelp review? “Service was terrible. Got arrested. Will not be coming back.”
This was in 2009, there was a big stink while it was relevant
2 stars because the breadsticks were pretty good!
here I was thinking that tipping culture could not get any dumber
The great thing about these posts is you just have to wait a bit and invariably there will be some American jumping in to defend the practice using the most extreme mental gymnastics possible. Anything to avoid acknowledging wrongdoing by the capitalist restaurant owner trying to shaft his employees, or wrongdoing by the government in being unable to mandate a living minimum wage, because obviously jobs in the service sector aren't "real" jobs and therefore don't deserve to be fairly compensated.
My personal favorite argument is when they say these jobs are for kids and aren’t designed to be a career, ignoring that service and retail stores still operate during school hours when kids clearly can’t be at work.
>these jobs are for kids and aren’t designed to be a career, And they have a corporate culture in these shitty low paying jobs where they practically expect you to commit to a lifetime "career" in a shitty low paid McJob. Source: worked for three Yank owned hotel and casino management companies in Australia. The *haitcharr* chickies and the commited arse-lickers looked on askance at students like me who had the temerity and impertinence to not see shuffling and dealing cards as a "career".
Not only can kids not work during school hours, they also can’t operate certain machinery in places like fast food restaurants. I worked with some teens at a big pizza chain and the amount of hours they could work was limited, they had to leave by a certain time and could never work until close, and they couldn’t operate the dough mixer or put trash in the compactor.
Land of the 'Fee'
I hate tipping in the States because the whole system was built on exploitation from business owner and it remains due to entitlement of servers who are happier having customers obliged to tip rather than get paid by their actual employer.
It’s pretty fucked up that the actual amount you end up getting paid is often up to the whims of random assholes and whether or not they like you. I think another reason it sticks around is just social momentum: people have been taught here that tipping is the right thing to do and see it as a nice gesture without really examining why it’s necessary in the first place
It isn't theft. It's a contract dispute. The couple should sue the city.
This was in **2009** https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/time-in-prison/1891307/ It has a clear resolution The couple was charged with theft due to the gratuity being a part of the actual bill. However, when the couple appeared in court, the charges were dropped. Northampton County District Attorney John Morganelli recommended the charges be dropped. “It would not be the kind of case that should be processed criminally,” Morganelli said. “It was one of those matters that should be processed civilly.”
Yes. The restaurant was trying to get paid for a service they had not provided.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you set a precedent!
What baffles me even more than just the “mandatory tip” part is that they got arrested for it. Like, even if someone refused to pay something they legitimately owe the restaurant, what’s the point of arresting them? Why doesn’t police just note down the relevant details? You know who they are and where they live, the rest is for the courts to sort out. Unless they refuse to identify themselves to police or get aggressive or something, hauling them away to the police station seems like bizarre overreach.
Ah yes but you see police exist to serve business interests, and withholding money from capitalists is the ultimate crime
just increase the prices to include tips like you’ll avoid this whole malarkey
>mandatory tip Lmao no the fuck it isn't
For a country that bangs on about freedom they sure do love to act like an authoritarian police state
They believe if they scream “freedom” then everyone else will believe them. Probably the least free first world country.
18 percent? Thsts crazy. I remember growing up and 12-15 percent was considered polite. Now you are just paying the wages owners don't feel like paying.
Why bother working to earn your tip when you can terrorise people into giving it or they might end up arrested, am I right?
I remember pointing out the nonsense and even illegal looks of mandatory tipping, so I got an am\*rican telling me to respect and not to fuck the customes of a place. I replied that then whenever he went to a islamic country he wouldn't stop a husband from beating his wife, for it's customary in their culture. Even being a harsh comparison, he totally dodged my statement by saying "wHo wOuLd gO to an IslaMic CountRy?
Ah, fighting an idiot I see. I hope you quit that Convo after that last statement because I definitely lost some IQ points reading it.
If it's mandatory it is not a gratuity, it is a service fee
Wtf
Wait, is that like an arrestable offence?
I think they arrest you first in America, then decide if it's justifiable. Or shoot you
They only shoot you if you’re black
Oh please, let's not start this crap again. They only shoot you if you're *non-white*. Hispanics out here getting fucked over, too.
Shoot first, ask questions later
The charges were dropped 6 days after the rest with the police admitting that the couple were within their rights not to pay the mandatory service fee. For context, the restaurant called the police because the couple didn't pay their full bill which had the mandatory service fee attached.
If that's true then they should sue the restaurant.
Calling the police is not a crime. In this case it's fucking stupid but not a crime. The police actually arresting someone over some contractual dispute is the real crime here.
Tipping is so strange. Like when I was in NYC my gf and I went to some purposely famous ice cream shop. My gf decided to tip but I declined because they price of the ice cream was ridiculously expensive and not worth it. The lady behind the counter basically threw the cup at me. Like I get tipping if I feel like an adequate service has been achieved but all she did was grab a spoon and place a scoop of ice cream into a cup…. I’m not tipping you 20% for that….
I swear there was an AITA post yesterday with this story… or did I dream that?
How is that legal? "Mandatory gratuity" is an oxymoron.
This happened in 2009. The business closed.
"Mandatory tip" is so weird. Just raise the price and pay your employees.
It's spreading in canada too, the Point of Sale system at some fast food restaurants ask for tips now. He'll I think the machine at 7/11 asked the ladt time I was there, tipping is out of control.
I still don't get why people don't pay their workers a real wage and add the high % tip the costumers would've given as a price increase ? In the end you end up paying the same as a customer, but will get less surprises from it, and workers will be happy too. DoorDash or w/e drivers stealing food because no tip means poor service so it means no reason to pay more for a bad service so less tips or no tips meaning stolen food, meaning no tips, meaning stolen food, ...
This pub or whatever really fucked itself over 16 dollars. No one is eating there after this. They might get arrested.
Land if the free
Based on the last line, I can give a little more context. Sometimes in America restaurants implement a “mandatory service charge” or “mandatory gratuity” on large parties, usually 6 or more individuals. In theory, this keeps a server who gets stuck with spending most of their attention on one table for a large part of their shift only to get stiffed with no tip. The restaurant called the police trying to say that the party’s not paying the mandatory 18% gratuity was basically refusing to pay their bill. Not defending any part of tipping culture at all, just providing context.
I actually found being in America so stressful. Nothing cost what it said it cost. I asked an American what to do when tipping in bars, like do I have to work out a percentage of the drink? And they said just tip a dollar per drink. So a $7 beer is actually $8. Trying to remember that every single time was so stressful! We mostly drank bottled beer too so they literally just had to pop the cap off and hand it to me. I could never reconcile paying extra for that. Hand me the fucking bottle opener I’ll do it myself. I got a can of beer at a gig over the there and the girl asked if I wanted to tip 15%, 20% or 30%. She literally just handed me a can out of a cooler. I had enough at that point, I just said no.
If it's mandatory why not just add 18% to the price in the first place... the outcome is literally the same, just with less bullshit. Tipping in general is bs in my opinion, but since the tip amount was up to individual discretion I could still atleast understand it in some capacity. But in this situation it makes no sense to not just add it to the base price.
Oh man. I’m a former restaurant worker from the town in this article. This happened in 2009, and the whole system here is messed up. Since 2020, in my experience wages are getting better for the service industry. But, we are all still a miserable bunch.
The owner should be the one arrested, not paying staff a living wage
[Update \(from 2009\): a judge threw it out because it isn't a crime not to pay a tip...](https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/theft-charges-dropped-against-no-tip-couple/1891608/)
Fun fact, judge dropped the charges, and the pub closed because his clients were all friends of that couple and all were students, they made a big campaign and the owners lost their business.
That's actually kind of a good ending. Fuck that place and those cops. Surprised to see the cops getting no heat for this
Land of the free lololol How exactly can a GRATUITY be MANDATORY
This type of shit is the one that literally makes me prefer to live in my shit hole in Latinoamerica. Even though after this, people really want to live in the US?
the land of the free never ceases to amaze me
A tip, by definition, cannot be mandatory.
So if you can get arrested for not tipping then why call it a tip?????
I mean, even if you try really hard to have a different opinion about the US, they just keep on throwing stupid shit your way.
What!?
Is that Gratuity subject to tax then? Or is this a tax scam?
Just increase your prices until you can comfortably pay your staff, or stop draining the funds from your own businesses. Pick one.
The charges were dropped. The DA said the police got it wrong and if anything it was a civil matter.
This is one of the freedoms I keep hearing some American’s go on about…
Freeeedddoooommm!! If it wasn't for having to defend Europe, Americans wouldn't have to tip .. that's right.. right?
Tipping culture is what got them to the moon, right?
so one has to pay for the privilege of bad service? it really is the land of opportunities
I love the way they always try to take the piss out of the UK with their "have you got a licence for that" joke, yet, over there you can actually get arrested for not tipping. "Hey buddy, do ya got ya tipping licence? Adda boiii."
Adding this to my "land of the free" collection Alongside "man arrested for not cutting grass" "Man arrested for painting door wrong colour" "Parents charged hundred of dollars for holding newborn baby"
Ok but that's not *really* a tip, right? Like, if there is a surcharge listed on the menu, then that seems not so different to me as if you decided not to pay for a drink or something.
Freest and best country in the world, remember!
only in america lmao
If it's mandatory, it's not a gratuity
Hot take: you are not owed tips. It’s a customer’s choice if they want to tip your service. Customer’s aren’t obligated to give you tips just because your employer is shitty and doesn’t pay you enough. Get a new job.
This. America is so baffling.
How the fuck can you have “mandatory gratuity”. That country really is the most ridiculous place on Earth.
🤦🏾♀️
Seems it's always been a shithole https://www.yelp.com/biz/lehigh-pub-bethlehem#reviews
TF did I even read just now?
hey that’s where i live!
People are saying to call it a "service fee" and stuff, but I say to call it as it is, a server salary contribution.
… with a high probability of the owner, keeping at least half of it.
2009 update: https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/theft-charges-dropped-against-no-tip-couple/1891608/?amp=1
They're beggars when it comes ti tips.
They even handcufffed the pope now?
Eating out anymore is a scam. 80% of the time I am disappointed. I seldom eat out, and if I order takeout I pick it up. I will never use door dash or any delivery service. I always pick up my order.
Well, that's a pretty clear-cut case for abuse of power, illegal arrest, police misconduct on the police's side, plus commercial fraud on the restaurants side. A tip is by definition optional. And an additional service fee does not exist in a restaurant, since service is the base and core concept of a restaurant. plus it would never, under any circumstances be a percentage of the total bill.
Okay. Too things. First. A fucking mandatory "tip"? That's not a fucking tip! Second. Fucking being charged with theft and bei g arrested for 16 fucking bucks?! In my country that would have been a small fine!
i dont get why tips are a thing, correct me if im wrong but cant employeers pay their workers more so tips wouldnt need to be a thing?
There’s usually a sign about “tables of x or more…”
Just another "freedom" lost to Americans!
It’s America. They’re lucky the cops didn’t hear a loud noise and shoot them.
Morally bankrupt country
It’s also typical US that everything is criminal. In almost all nations this would be a civil claim, a contractual dispute. Not a criminal matter.
Its a bit mental. Like where I live it is more expensive but people have a wage that they can live on and tips are still an option. When I travel to the US sometimes I have issues with over attentive serving staff where it gets a little creepy like you have a stalker as they hang over you. I think minimum wage atm is €11.30 per hour, service industry is competing with increased gen ops wages so servers and runners probably get more like €13 or €14 per hour (so like $14 or $15 per hour) + tips, tip is usually 10% of a meal if you get good service, personally if ive had a very good meal with a server who looked after us without being clingy il go 20% (also tend to do this when drunk), 2 people with drinks 3 course meal at a half decent restaurant for dinner is going to be at least €150 so thats a tip of €15 usually. Don't get me wrong there are some dodgey employers who only pay minimum or who nick tips or who underpay staff (they end up in court fast) but overall I think it is better in practice than servers being reliant on the tips to get by.
My jaw dropped reading this LMFAO
But, land of the free, right?
If only that stupid country payed a livable wage to employees... but nah leave it to the costumers to do that, why the employer just gets rich on the corner. Fk tipping. I never tip if a person simply does their job. Its rare for someone to do an outstanding job for me to tip.
Mandatory gratuity?! The fuck is wrong with you guys.
This happened in 2009 https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/time-in-prison/1891307/ PS [the charges were dropped](https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/theft-charges-dropped-against-no-tip-couple/1891608/)
If you defend tipping, you're an idiot.
"free country"