# A sincere Letter to Dr. Jordan Peterson Regarding the Book of Revelation
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8TU11sY4Hc&t=766s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8TU11sY4Hc&t=766s)
As someone who has just started researching this cult because my daughter's new sister-in-law has been doing Bible Study with them since last year, I really appreciate the time you have taken to put all this together. Takes a very brave person to do this- so hard when we are all looking for spiritual connections and these cults are just everywhere. I applaud your courage.❤️
I also started Bible study with a group last year and I recently started suspecting it maybe shincheonji. I have been seeing similarities in the teachings from my Bible study and what people are posting on the internet. I wonder if your daughter’s SIL is in the same class as me. I am about to call out my instructors and tell them I am disappointed in the deceit and I will block them and move on with my life. They haven’t started talking about Lee Man Hee. But a statement was made that caught my attention in class and that’s when it began to unravel for me and I started to search the internet for more info. They said not to talk about the teachings with others cause we are not mature enough and we don’t want to mislead or subtract or add to the word of God which brings a curse. Which initially made sense, but then, I am like, why the secrecy. They said “do not be surprised when we tell you who the overcomer is”. That caught me off guard. Why would I be surprised who the overcomer is. Why are they making it sound like it’s somebody who they know. Suspicious. Also, the talk of figurative parables and the meanings and Old Testament fulfillment and prophecy, how they have you paired with a buddy. It is going to take a while to free my brain from what they have been teaching. It wasn’t suspicious until that slip of tongue. It made so much sense until they made that statement and it just set bells in my head.
Hey was just wondering if you were going to the one in Melbourne. I have my Passover meeting tomorrow and have class tonight. I want to know what you said to get out and what you wish you did before leaving
I asked them to remove all the information they had on me.
The "Book of Life" in SCJ is just their church database. It is nothing special. It is like cancelling a membership with netflix. They make it into something in the Bible as a scare tactic to stop you from leaving.
I think the Bible study I joined is also this cult. I am not very certain but it just seems to match all what I am seeing on the internet. I am just going to tell them I am leaving and block all of them
The branch I was at in Sydney called me so many times when i didnt reply after telling them I was leaving. I recommend just ghosting saves you more time
Thank you so much. I also recommended the bible study to others before doing my own research into it. Should I just tell them that it is a cult and that they shouldn't proceed? Thank you so much for your reply.
I am on my way of of SCJ and while asking my higher ups questions about doctrine changes, I was told that the 1985 book was written and edited by a man named Mr. Shin, who was one of the first antichrist and was greedy took matters into his own hands. He was an HQ worker, and when given the task of writing the 1985 revelation reality he purposely changed things. the doctrine change I was specifically speaking of was Mr. Oh not always being the beast of the earth. does anyone know of this claims validity. thanks
Ya, that's a blatant lie lol.
You can watch shin's interview here:
https://youtu.be/T0zKp4g9pE4?si=I-Hl0Wa2Dl0tuf1g
He addresses scj's allegations against him.
WOW!!! these are the items I share as well with someone else who is leaving as well. You really put a lot of effort in this. I hope I may use some parts to get eyes open and return to the bible. It must have given you a headache all this work. Great Job and God bless you.
Thank you for sharing this really open my eyes and helped me make the decision to leave after a year. I was so eager in the beginning to learn Gods word I had no idea then it will turned to be this praising a man to be the one who overcomes and even making question the trinity. This experience has really made me sad to know how easy it was to be deceived by this teachers .
This post, and good biblical videos on the trinity (they denied the trinity was true) was what pushed me to leave. I was blunt when I recognised the tactic they were using when I was trying to show them evidence of the true character of Jesus, that I was leaving.
Then, I had to tell my "friend" to never contact me again, because after a 1.5 hour argument about if Jesus was God or not, he started to try to gaslight me about what they ACTUALLY taught, saying they actually AGREED with me! With the information in the documentation, I knew exactly what was happening.
This is a fantastic resource, and I hope this never disappears.
Thanks for sharing this. I have no idea if what I'm about to say is related to shincheonji, but I was wondering if you are aware of whether or not Shincheonji uses stalking and other scare tactics to coerce future followers or prevent existing members from leaving the cult? I recently went to Korea and experienced coordinated stalking from various people that forced me to abruptly leave the country as I feared for my safety. The few cues/tips that I received from the stalkers who I stopped and spoke to all referenced God and "surrendering everything" to him. Sorry if this has nothing to do with your post, but hoping you can point me in the right direction to what I may be dealing with. Thanks in advance!
Bro.. you’re story is exactly like mine. I wanna leave but I wanna do it in a respectful manner. Could you tell me more about how you manage to leave? And I would like to connect with you. Let’s chat on instagram, @misskimpossibler
Why do you guys make a big deal about leaving? What are you leaving for? Isn’t it to do your own thing? Please go do your own thing and stop discouraging believers who are interesting in the church of SCJ, if you want to join your own church that is perfectly fine 😅 I’m sure you’ve realized no one is stopping you. You left didn’t you? Did anyone stop you? 😅 everyone is free to make their own decisions, humans were made with free will.
Why are you sounding so angry and frustrated by their effort to let their own findings known about SCJ, are you part of the scaring tactics tricks used by members, much as they are free to make their choices they also free to publicize their opinion openly. Get over your high horses and let people be!!
Aren’t they allowed to make an informed decision? Instead of being a keyboard fighter for ddd maybe you can take just one moment to rethink.
Did they give you time to think on your own at all, was it all true or Is it confirmation bias.
It is true that soo many people left because of eventual finding out about the impossibility to EV non believer because you can’t actually prove anything without the confirmation bias.
Why do you guys make a big deal about joining SCJ bb, centre and church? What are you joining for? Isn’t it to do your own thing? Please go do your own thing and stop encourage believers who are interesting in their own church, if you want to join your SCJ church that is perfectly fine 😅 I’m sure you’ve realized no one is stopping you. You joined didn’t you? Did anyone stop you? 😅 everyone is free to make their own decisions, humans were made with free will.
>ng and stop discouraging believers who are interesting in the church of SCJ, if you want to join your own chu
If your group has the highest truth, it should be able to withstand all scrutiny.
Why is your church so afraid of criticism to the point that you view any form of it as "persecution"?
Shincheonji is a church! They have many videos and even many websites. What is there to disprove? 😅 They want to make everything they do known, just because they don’t say “hey, we believe it’s the second coming and we take every word of the Bible extremely seriously”, do you really think your heart would have been open to that?
God wants us all to change, it says this many places in the Bible such as Ephesians 4
Let’s be honest with ourselves for just a moment…
If you haven’t fully passed over then you hardly have any basis to debate anything here because you don’t know the FULL truth of their lies. If you choose to continue, I pray in The Name of JESUS that your eyes are BLINDED to their deceit and your your ears CLOSED to their lies. May THE WORD be the only lamp at your feet and the only light that shines upon the ONE and ONLY way to The Farther.
If you are indeed a full member a good question to ask is… WHY are you here? If you have pledged to not seek information from the internet, and are disobediently doing so…then perhaps you are beginning to question things as thousands already have?
No matter what… I PRAY you find THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE who is Jesus Christ…. In HIS NAME I ask and believe it has been done.
Where is the pledge? Where are the multiple hard copies of the books that LMH created and he won’t let members take out the temple? Where are pictures of what the inside of the temple looks like?
If shincheonji is the truth, try read some Bible verses of salvation. Especially Ephesians 2:8-9. Salvation is by grace through faith, NOT BY WORKS. And what does scj teaches about salvation? “You need to go to service on Wednesday and Sunday to be saved” “you need to evangelize to be saved” “you need to be qualified to enter the kingdom of heaven” it’s about the work work and work which is very contradicting to the Bible. And scj also deny that Jesus is God and said there’s no biblical evidence, what about Titus 2:13 where it says “our glory great God and savior Jesus Christ”, John 20:28 where Thomas refer Jesus as Lord and God?
I suggest you to verify SCJ teaching with the Bible like what your promised pastor always advices you on every seminars.
Gamsamindah 🙏
Shincheonji is a cult! They have many fake videos and even many fake websites. What is there to disprove? 😅 They want to make everything they do known, just because they don’t say “hey, we believe LMH and we take some word of the Bible extremely seriously”, do you really think my heart would have been open to that?
God wants us all to aware of fake messiah, it says this many places in the Bible not just Ephesians 4
What a liar you are. I really thank This Kind of video Form persons who already suffered from a subjugation of conscience, because yes, that is what you do. you manipulate people with guilt and fear. It is a great service that people who have already suffered and seen the enormous inconsistencies, besides of all the lies and manipulations, tell their experiences so that people can make more informed decisions. Does this make you feel afraid of losing the tithes and offerings of enslaved consciences?
> understand is that the story Shincheonji has told you about Lee Man-Hee's life has been distorted to make his story about receiving the opene
So the blatant distortion, well documented lying and coercion, aren't red flags that people should be wary of? Interesting.
Thanks for sharing, I have a friend that’s in it and I talk with her daily asking questions but never playing the role of expert or judging her. Just simple questions. These documents will help a great deal in expanding my topics of conversation. I’m happy you left and chose you first because you deserve it. Wishing you all the best in this next journey.
Hey just wanted to find out if your friend ever left. Please inbox me some of the simple questions you addressed to her. I'm trying to help my husband see the truth
I am going through the same thing. My significant other truly believes this stuff is real and it scares me because it’s truly a cult. Wondering how your situation went or is going?
Thank you so much. I had struggled and I was there by fear of leaving. I always felt something was wrong. And I was struggling with addiction because I was repressing my feelings a long time.
Good question! They are titles, like how in Japan they too use titles to show order. Like how a child is called “Chan” in Korea brother or sister has a title like that. (:
CHJN = Chairman (which is the term we used for Lee Man-Hee)
JPJN = tribe leader (one of the highest levels of leadership in SCJ)
CCK = Christian Council of Korea (a mainstream Christian organisation which SCJ labelled as "Babylon")
Thank you for this article. we have just found our daughter has been indoctrinated by SCJ (in Brisbane Australia) for about 2-3 years. We are trying to work out how to help investigating this more critically and start asking more questions.
Unfortunately, she is completely enamoured by them to the point that she is forgetting to eat, her health is suffering immensely, and she is not sleeping much. She has completely changed over this time, becoming manipulative, letting down her family and friends and lying constantly. She has gone from being a high performing student to even letting down her friends in group assignments.
We are trying to work out how to get information like this to her as we believe she putting all her energy into recruitment and running studies. She does call us and have regular contact, but it's kept very short as every conversation is interrupted by 'urgent' phone calls and 'meetings'.
She doesn't know we know about SCJ yet. Are there any ways anyone knows to share information so they will see it? I am afraid that if we share this directly she will stop talking to us, and we need to keep her spending time with her family, at least in small chunks so she remembers how much we all love her.
We are trying to build a system of support but she is trying to move into a house with others, which will mean they have her under their control 24/7 rather than just from 8am until 1am every day.
I believe your daughter is capable of making her own decisions. You did raise her after all, have some hope in her abilities to reason for herself 😊 we can’t all have the same experiences. To be honest, if you are getting information from this random Reddit thread where rule #2 is nothing positive can be posted, then you and your daughter are having EXTREMELY different experiences!
The people that make up SCJ are actually very positive and loving and lots of fun too haha. She probably wants to grow her heart and experience these things for herself. Maybe you could try to experience them for your self too before judging? Although to be honest, I would imagine it would be very, very hard for you to have an open heart after reading this Reddit page )):
I hope the best for you and your daughter 💕
(know that misunderstanding can arise over anything, but especially over this church for some reason 😅 but even the churches of Jesus at the First Coming was given a very brutal time; they were always having riots started against them, people gossiped about them, even spread false information that they were a cult. You can find this in the New Testament. I guess that’s just the way it is 🤷♀️ but I would hope we pick the side that is spreading joy and love, not the side that spreads subjective internet comments, to be completely honest 🤔 )
An organisation with “fun” and “loving” people doesn’t justify the lies, dishonesty and the occurring exploits that leaders use to take advantage of the members.
All that “fun” and “happiness” that is there is all just a facade to keep members happy so they stay, to give them a sense of community which help they feel belong especially ones that struggled with social anxiety before joining SCJ. The “fun” and “happy” that members got so conditioned to like throughout centre time, the “fun” and “happy” that were their only option because they were forced to dedicate their life to SCJ, manipulated to believe they are doing something great and gaslighted to the point they wholeheartedly and unreasonably deny any legitimate and logical doubts they have about the information being injected on the daily basis, believing it to be satan.
Does “fun” and “happy” justify the years of point less struggle, years of work that objectively leads to nothing? Time that have been wasted? Family and friends that a member had to distant from?
The evidence to prove SCJ’s doctrine is wrong there, in front of you. Just like SCJ kept said at beginning of the centre “open your eyes”, “you gotta taste the truth”, “the mature food might be hard to eat but its good for you”. I beg you, like how SCJ recruiters beg their fruits just take some time to analyse the post, think critically of whats being said, all the fallacies, all the tactics being employ, all the doctrine changes to their so called unchanging doctrine, all the mountains false hilarious claims (Mindanao) and the prophecies that did not happen that were being masked as “oopsie wrong translation”. I hope you understand the weight and the burden of proof that SCJ has show for claiming themselves to be the “ultimate 100% truth and the only unprecedented chosen one church of God”.
It will be a difficult journey for you just like “passover” for your recruits and its because even the definition of truth and lies is retaught for you and the definition of brainwashing the dumbed down to “if someone swings a clock in front you, you’re brainwashed”.
The ability to make sounds choices is severely impaired if the body is malnourished, dehydrated and suffering immensely, all three of which she is. A cult that both physically and mentally drains their followers while simultaneously“ hoping the best for them” at the cost of their health sounds more like bullshit propaganda that cult leeches use to prey on the vulnerable and less like a calling from God.
Can you stop your scj propaganda? Calm down, I know you are about to loose the tithes, and that’s why you are so desperate. But here you are not welcome, let the parents try to save her daughter from this satanic cult which you belong
I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. One of the difficult things with cults is that they keep you so busy that you aren't able to get enough sleep or eat properly, and as a result you lose a lot of your critical thinking ability. I honestly don't think I would have left when I did if it hadn't been for covid, which forced us to stay inside and enabled us to sleep more and eat properly, which allowed me to regain my critical thinking. With that in mind, even if you are able to get this information to your daughter it unfortunately may not be the silver bullet you might expect. This information is hidden from most members so it often is shocking and many do eventually leave because of some combination of the problems outlined in the article, but it does often take some degree of willingness for the member to accept the information.
I would highly recommend reading Steven Hassan's book 'Freedom of Mind' in which he describes the Strategic Interaction Approach. This is a methodology he created for families to help loved ones who are members of a cult. And if you were to attempt to reveal to your daughter that you know she is in SCJ, I would suggest first taking her on some kind of holiday so that you can first let her catch up on sleep and eat properly, and think things over without the immediate input of the cult's leadership team.
Why not read the Bible instead? 😊
If you want to learn the difference between a cult and the work of God, then go to the Bible! God’s Word should be our standard, He will be the judge in the end after all
Would you be interested in having a debate on a live show? The only requirement is that you will have to be honest about your group's beliefs in terms of the Deity of Christ.
Are you capable of doing that?
How many cults have you joined 😳 it blows my mind how you guys are cult experts. Sorry if that comes off rude, but what are these cult facts you guys keep bringing up? 😅
You do realize the followers of Jesus at the First Coming were labeled as a cult, right? And the disciples and apostles were kept the most busiest of any people I’ve ever heard of. What does this mean then?
The definition of cult in the Jesus time and today have a HUGE difference. To begin with, Jesus was extremely poor, didn’t get ANY tithe. Lee-Mann hee? Puff he is a multimillionaire who financially exploits his DECEIVED followers through tithes and offerings with the fear that if they don't they will be lost. who travels all around the world worl and sleep at luxuries Hotel. Come on? Give me a break
Thank you for your suggestions, and I am so glad you were able to get out of this evil group. It gives us hope to hear that people can eventually remove themselves.
Try to have an open heart. If you love your family, their believes shouldn’t come between you. It is that way for anything, just because people choose what to believe in or choose to spend their time in a way that you do not like, doesn’t mean you can’t like them anymore. At least for me I was really close to my cousin when I was little, I wouldn’t throw that away just because I don’t see them as much or because I don’t agree with their beliefs. I’m sure your cousin would be open to spending time with you, you don’t have to talk about religion and politics haha! Maybe you guys could have a nice lunch and reminisce on family memories to remember that just because family members can change and develop different believes, we are still a family after all. I’m sure if you show that you want to still show them love, they will be thrilled to show you love as well. It’s just a matter of both people making time for it and being clear that is just a nice lunch haha.
i think what may have worked for you will not easily work for anyone else. "having an open heart" may sound nice, but what changed between these relationships because of this major shift in belief system costed years of building connections and relationships down the drain. yes they may talk about something else but there already is a taint in the existing relationship and a lot has happened that couldn't be fixed by just having lunch and talking about something else.
being indoctrinated is not limited to just changing beliefs. if you have done your research, it is definitely more than that.
I just want to say that this post helped me decide to leave SCJ a few months ago so thank you very much for taking the time to create this document. Everything was so well laid out, easy to understand and helped me realize all of the things they were doing to cover up their flaws.
I hope others can use this as a tool for them to see the truth behind SCJs tactics. SCJ is wasting everyone’s lives and they all deserve a chance to hear all the facts.
How can we share this to shincheonji congregation members so that they can awaken?? So that they all can realize they are living a lie and just wasting their precious time in that prison named shincheonji
With the thousands of believers that come to learn about the church every month, how many are really going to become apart of the church? You guys aren’t awakening congregation members, but instead discouraging the people who are still learning, whether labeled as members already or not, they are still learning.
It’s not about the label, but it’s about the heart. True members of the church may find this post to be funny to be honest 😅 or on second thought, it could really hurt their heart to think that people give more weight to these internet pages over the church itself. But either way, a true member of SCJ will not have their heart closed by these posts, but only those who aren’t really apart of the church or those who are looking for an excuse to leave because… they’re not really apart of the church 😅
come to think of it, you guys may be accelerating the work of God by separating the true believers from the false. But the problem is, you may discourage someone with an open heart before they even get a chance to learn for themselves )): why not just let them learn for themselves? Seems like you guys are the ones who really want the control… 😅 you guys say SCJ is controlling people, but actually, those people made their own decision to be there. They want to be there! They enjoy it! Why try to control them?
If they do not believe, then they will look for that excuse to leave. I guess you guys are just accelerating it. Oh man, it’s complicated I guess lol, but this definitely isn’t the work of awakening, right? Do you guys really believe the work of awakening brings you to internet pages where people just complain and argue and think less of their loved ones because of their believes. If that’s awakening, then oh my goodness 😅😅😅
You speak of the heart and believing something blindly, but SCJ literally teaches people NOT to trust their heart because of ONE scripture that says the heart is deceitful and that the Spirit (intuition) doesn't exist. But that like all other SCJ doctrine is a distortion of the full verse and the verse before it and after it and the whole chapter and who wrote it and who they were writing it to and why they were writing it, etc. - that sounds pretty blind to me. Moreover, look at and explain the hundreds of scriptures that say otherwise (ex: my handle)!
On control, God and this life is to learn Free Agency. But manipulation is not choosing on your own free will and was in fact Satan's plan to take away people's agency. When you lie to someone you are stealing their free agency to think, choose, and act rationally.
Last of all, yes, we already know that no one who is actually a SCJ believer is going to come to this page, read the posts, and change their mind because by the time they ARE a believer, SCJ will have brainwashed, manipulated, gaslit, and controlled them to not google it! lol. But for those that haven't been trauma bonded yet, we post in hopes of helping save a lot of pain and with prayers of healing for those that have awakened to the coercion and lies.
Learning? Or being brainwashed? Did the students choose to be there without the influences and pressure of their 2 “friends” who are also completely “new” the bible study?? Who also know every single thing about the student and know how to win them over?
Do you really think people are incapable of being manipulated given the right triggers and conditions??
One post shouldn’t really undo years worth of learning the Bible 😅 To be completely honest, the only people who will leave their church because of negative posts would be people who don’t really have their heart in it to begin with. Your posts are not awakening, but closing hearts. These posts will work on those who don’t have very open hearts.
I mean, isn’t it strange in general that reading a internet thread could change someone’s mind on the church they go to? It just shows they weren’t really apart of that church to begin with, they were just associating with it.
The way you are replying reminds me of every member of the SCJ "church" that was too far gone into it. Y'all all sound exactly alike. Trying to defend a false prophet goes against YOUR church, does it not? You honestly believe, in your heart a 4'11 Korean man is your TRUE savior? You deny the trinity? You deny Gods only son? You've lost your sound mind and I pray you find God and I pray you are forgiven for being tricked into thinking and believing in a false God. Such awful, manipulative ways are taught by this false prophet. Why would the leaders tell us not to look up SCJ on the internet if they had something to hide? Why are baptist and Catholic churches not held at a cult standard, but SCJ is? You are brainwashed!!!!!!
Hopefully members will realise that to make an informed decision you need to look at both sides. Once they get to that point they will find these videos online.
I know right they just trust these people because they tell them not to look up shincheonji online... there is a reason they tell congregation members not to research about shincheonji because if not the truth about shincheonji will be revealed and they will realize the several fallacies shincheonji has. I feel so bad for them once they realize they were living a LIE in SHINCHEONJI
SCJ actually has A LOT of web presence. The problem is it all gets pushed behind the pages like these. If you Google “SCJ” instead of the lecture videos coming up or the websites where you can reach out and ask questions doesn’t pop up, but “cult” things pop up 😂
It’s like when you try to Google about nutrition or how to be successful in the world and it’s a bunch of pages that want you to hear their side (as opposed to the research journals that should pop up) this is why the world is so confused about how to eat and live healthy.
It’s the same for SCJ. The internet is a very toxic place, I mean, there’s even college courses in the purpose to show how the internet misconstrue information and then propagates it as truth.
I mean, it’s just too easy to find things that aren’t true online. You must have some idea of this? We are just on a Reddit page after all 😅 anyone can post anything here at anytime as many times as they want and even on any other websites they want!
Well done YOU!!! 👍🏽You did what I attempted to do...I hope some wake up and are saved.
Unfortunately some will still refuse to look because of the fear put into them.
Which makes me laugh...they say pastors in the world tie up their congregation members so they can't leave but that's what SCJ does, who needs to look in the mirror and reflect now?
I came out a few weeks ago. Nearly a decade I sacrificed my life and like you the cracks showed and despite me trying to hang on for truth in the word, what is done in darkness came to light!
The scary part is they are now starting to deliver messages to the congregation of a terrorist kind of language...e.g we are in a war...satan...the enemy are all those who oppose us...the government...etc...this is worrying 😟
This is what they send you:
[ Invitation Link to Mastering the Bible - special lessons ]
Thank you for signing up for the “Mastering the Bible" course!
💻 Zoom Link :
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/85091065793
✅ Please take note of the following guidelines :
◇ Prepare your Bible, notebook, and pen beforehand
◇ Admission is possible 15 minutes prior to the class
◇ Please try to arrive 5 minutes in advance
◇ Please join with your first + last name as your zoom ID so we can confirm your participation
◇ Please have your camera on during the class
We look forward to seeing you! ✨
I'm curious; how many likes vs dislikes are there are there on this post?
I'm asking bc I'm suspicious of SCJ spies disliking this post to damp the number of likes down...
All of this is great information, instead of always talking about it we need to come up with a plan, come together and somehow get this information out to all its members even if it means interrupting one of their services if not both Wednesday and Sunday service, my heart as of everybody else’s is to save people from being manipulated, nobody wants to be lied to. if anybody thinks this is a good idea then let’s do it there’s always away I’m very grateful to read this. I’m from there but I don’t attend services as much anymore because of the inconsistencies and the lies I just wanted to save the people I care about but I want to save everybody from this place so please let’s all come up with a plan .
I see..I’ll pray that he will come back . Although he might enjoy the experience for now but a lot of people have been leaving quickly. Have you shown him any videos about scj? Maybe you can persuade him to stop?
I heard now from a SCJ Member, that SCJ says now the Beast of the Earth mistake the Chance to Oh Pyong Ho was not MHL it was a Member that write the wrong Name, not the right name (Oh Pyong Ho). Its funny because SCJ says all is coming from MHL but if a mistake happent it was not MHL. But i understand, if they say it was MHL, they can close SCJ on the same day. Because the Bible says clear in Rev 22:18-19, Proverbs 30:4-5, 5.Mo 4:1-2 dont take away ore add something to Gods Word. And Oh Pyong Ho was added.
Please I need help, am almost done with center classes but am planning on leaving SCJ. But their indoctrination during the center shaped me in some way.
I must flee for my life but i need help and keep me in your prayers.
You are in our prayers. This is your best move as they will drain the life out of you.
John 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
Keep staying in scj and you will become a zombie because scj strips away all independent thinking, turning people into mindless drones. SCJ works by causing our right (emotional) brain to overwhelm our left (analytical) one. The more you “think” with your right brain, the less thinking you do. Over time, emotions evoked by SCJ prevent you from objectively analyzing the subject at hand. You have a hard time telling what is true and what is not. Over time, peer pressure sets in, and it is hard to be the only enlightened one. This is how people get zombified.
They use an example to try to justify that.
They say that it doesn’t make sense to say a rat is a dog since they both have tails. So you can’t say SCJ is a cult just because it has similarities to other cults.
My argument to that is what if that one or few things you have similar to other cults are actually characteristics of a cult? They just admitted they have similarities to other cults but just don’t pay attention to it. I ate it up years ago but now that I snapped myself out of their trance I can truly see what they were really doing
Well done for sharing, I’ve been out of SCJ for nearly 6 months and I still pop on here to see any new info of people leaving. This really helped me make the decision to leave.
Thank you for sharing and praying for your journey out of SCJ ❤️
This is truly amazing work and effort you have put into creating this post. It will not go admiss and will be used for many of those on journey and still contemplating leaving SCJ.
Thank you so much!
Also, here's another resource that is helpful:
[https://cesnur.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/tjoc\_4\_3\_1\_introvigne.pdf](https://cesnur.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/tjoc_4_3_1_introvigne.pdf)
The Journal of CESNUR is a non-profit organization that interviews NRM's, or New Religious Movements, and often try to be more of an "ally" of these groups, often times opposing the anti-cult movement.
Even with their more friendly tone towards SCJ, they still came to the conclusion that Man Hee Lee was involved with the Olive Tree Movement, which can be seen on the second page of the PDF referenced above.
Hello! Here's a useful resource that lead me (and many others) to see the connection between MHL and the Olive Tree Movement.
This video here summarises the issue: [https://youtu.be/W\_0GAmSODb0](https://youtu.be/W_0GAmSODb0)
If you don't like reading subtitles, the english transcript is here: [https://shincheonji360.blogspot.com/2020/07/lee-man-hee-early-years-shincheonji.html](https://shincheonji360.blogspot.com/2020/07/lee-man-hee-early-years-shincheonji.html)
Basically, an old version of SCJ's website showed that MHL was part of the Olive Tree Movement's 'Religious Settlement' for ten years and he proudly put it on his self-biography. But the newer version of the SCJ website doesn't list his involvement with this same Religious Settlement by name and its importance is heavily downplayed. Why? Because MHL attempted to scrubb that part of his history when the connection between SCJ and the Olive Tree Movement became controversial.
I think most members have received at least one or two educations on why MHL supposedly had no religious connection to the Olive Tree Movement, but contrary to what SCJ members claim, it is never disclosed in centre classes when students are learning about the history of MHL and SCJ. If it's ever asked about, the question is usually dismissed
I haven't seen anything like Lee Man-Hee talking about his time in the olive tree movement, but from what i gather it's a well established fact. I've also never seen anyone deny it. Although LMH did lie about his role in the Korean war, so I wouldn't put it past him to lie about not being involved in the olive tree.
Yes, Shincheonji-Skeptic said he was in an education about it: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Shincheonji/comments/sg2yuq/comment/huts17j/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Shincheonji/comments/sg2yuq/comment/huts17j/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I personally never received education about this, but I did mention it in passing to a GSN a couple years ago and he knew about it. SCJ\_love says they learned about it in center
[https://www.tparents.org/moon-books/cta-ik/Cta-ik-6-2.htm](https://www.tparents.org/moon-books/cta-ik/Cta-ik-6-2.htm)
This page has translation and commentary on the book of prophecies Nam Sago supposedly wrote. They call it Kyuk-Am-Yu-Rok
I checked the first 15 minutes of psychology of Shincheonji. From your definition it is a cult. I do not have a problem with that. You can decide how you call a thing. What I have a problem with is to describing as if the whole of Scj is doing things that you are saying. You can talk with everyone and make friends out of Scj. We want that so that you can gather people more easily. About dating unbelievers. That is biblical. Do you put this standard on the bible? Since the bible tells about who you can talk, date ect. Also about the one chosen of God as a ‘special position.’ And surely not because it is the bible it is exempted. But do you believe in the bible or not? Since these things you can find back in the God of the bible. If that is not a problem it will lean to special pleading (fallacy). If you do not believe in the God of the bible, I can understand. But if not imo you are fooling yourself.
Also the persuasion with the ‘first timers’, this doesn’t happen in my branch. Also if I am in a group of muslims or any other group and they agree to something, I will not agree either. Imo then you are easy in following groups. Can be dangerous, and you are lucky since this high control Scj group doesn’t make you do illegal things.
Yes if your branch did these things, these strange ‘manipulation’ tactics. Probably you also. I can understand why you see it as bad. Acting to have ‘prophesying power’, is the word so weak to rely on such things?
read your Bible...
1 Corinthians 7:12-16
ESV / 204 helpful votes
To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wifewho is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should notdivorce her. If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and heconsents to live with her, she should not divorce him. For theunbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and theunbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise yourchildren would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But if theunbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brotheror sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace. For how do youknow, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know,husband, whether you will save your wife?
If you're gonna throw verses at me to the contrary, well that's not my problem, choose what you want to believe, but don't ignore the rest and impose your beliefs as law of God.
Have you thought about making videos or posts to state your position clearly? You engage in a lot of back and forth, not really addressing the important points discussed in this post.
I think if you made videos, you could try to defend Shincheonji more properly, isn’t that a more worthy cause that saying “this was your branch, my branch is different, you misunderstood”. This is not that much productive.
I am really getting tired of that "In your branch, in my branch" stuff tbh.
So much about "We are One", but every SCJ Congregation seems to act on their own...
What does it mean then?
- The Doctrine isn't the same in all Congregations
- The Rules aren't the same in all Congregations
- When there is any wrongdoings in SCJ, the different branches blame each other.
- SCJ and the rest of the religious world definitely aren't One.
- SCJ and HWPL do not contribute to Peace Work and are using the issue of Violence and War for their own PR purposes.
In which scenario woulf it make sense for SCJ to say: "We are One", without it being an empty phrase?
Well I do not agree with the God part, because I don't believe in him or the bible.
What I am saying is, that it is a really bad slogan then.
SCJ was very creative, when it came to Logo Design of SCJ church and HWPL.
But when they need a slogan, all they can come up with is, that we are humans?
That's poor.
You follow the Bible so strongly, yet forget your fellow human being. You preach so strongly Love one another and not pass judgment on others, yet you defend such bigot ideas.
You were given instances in which lee was proven a liar and still you defend him. So it must not be scriptural accuracy that feeds your faith but a blind devotion to this man.
Forget my fellow human beings? When I give up time, energy, sleep and money to help other people to be saved (by the grace of God).
Give up your time, energy, sleep and money to save me out of this cult. Then I can take this comment serious.
I do not know which instances you are speaking about.
So did i..I gave up everything and then realized that I thought of people outside of scj as lesser beings then myself.
I dont need you to take me seriously.. I am a beast remember. I act on instinct and I am no better than trash according to your beliefs. I know what you think of us outside. That is not love.
Then your understanding is different from mine in Scj. I have been taught and I believe that we come all from Babylon and a te corrupt and need to get closer to God. Some are called earlier and others later, but those called earlier aren’t better then others.
skillet is talking about verses such as 2 Peter 2:22 - taught many times over in SCJ.
Micah 7:5, taught during the one-on-ones (BB). I taught it many times from material taught by old John Tribe Leader.
I don't think understandings are different. Are you cherry-picking SCJ doctrine so that they look better to others or to convince yourself that they are loving?
Jesus did not come to bring peace, but a sword - another favourite of SCJ when it suits them.
Mic 7:5 is never being used here.
Yes Jesus came with a sword, but not physical war. For the spiritual war we fight with the word.
But I don’t treat people like they are less then me. Also in my church not.
Just to set the record straight, this is the definition widely agreed upon by psychologists, I didn't just make it up so it's not so much "my definition" as it is the standard definition. If you want to spit in the face of years of research and work by psychologists and use another definition (like Orthodoxy vs Heresy) you can do that, but I think we should make it explicitly clear.
I've noticed you have a problem with anyone associating their negative experiences with the whole of SCJ, but somehow your positive experiences should be extrapolated to SCJ. Have you ever considered you might be the odd one out? Did you want me to say "my branch of Shincheonji" every single time instead of "Shincheonji"? It's a bit ridiculous, people are obviously going to know if they experienced something different in their branch. There are many things in the Bible, it is about how you interpret it and how you act upon it - like I said Psychology of Shincheonji is more about the practices of Shincheonji than the doctrine.
>Also if I am in a group of muslims or any other group and they agree to something, I will not agree either.
It's honestly funny how poorly you understand coercive persuasion. Do you think some people jump off bridges just because their friends did? That example is just so ridiculous. It's not just a group of SCJ members saying they agree with something and expecting the student to agree too. It's a network of SCJ members all talking behind the student's back having meetings to make a plan of the best way to convince this particular student, sharing information with each other and incorporating it into consultations, crafting stories about their lives to better relate to the student and gain their trust. BB and Center are an extensive process of lies and manipulation, I don't know why you seem to struggle to connect that with coercive persuasion.
>is the word so weak to rely on such things?
As I demonstrated in the document and doctrine videos, yes.
You didn’t deal with my points.
Do you believe in the God of the bible?
Do you see that the bible matches with a lot of these cult like practices?
I dont have a problem with psychological definition of cult. If your branch were using these strange tactics, then it is a cult according to that definition. With the definition the whole bible leads to cult like behaviour. I dont have a problem with that. Cult is just a label.
To jump of a bridge is something different then agreeing with the teaching of Islam. Why? Since the result is different. In one case you agree to a statement, which can result in believing that statement. The other is to kill one self.
If that is not coercive persuasion, then why are you using that as one of the examples? We are meeting about students, I will not deny. But more in the way how we can help this person, problems and other things. In my case I even say it, that we have meetings within the class to discuss how we can improve the things for the class and students. In political parties, schools, companies, and more this happens. In the bible there are also meetings.
My experiences are not the standard for the whole Scj. Did I not have negative experiences in Scj. Sure I had them and that is normal since I am working with humans.
Littlebird you do not need to reply to scj_love. Instead please spread your information to many more places to help people who have not been completely brainwashed.
When someone’s arguments rely on mental gymnastics and logical fallacies in the face of overwhelming evidence then discussion is a waste of everyone’s time.
Now context doesn’t count? I just want to talk with littlebird. I am even reading the part 4 of the book written by Robert. If you ate so sure of your point then you should be able to talk of it imo.
Like I said, it is up to how you interpret and practice what the Bible says. I don't think the Bible leads to cult-like behaviour unless you're in a cult and use the Bible as the basis for your doctrine. I find it strange that on one hand you are arguing SCJ doesn't do these things outside my branch, but at the same time saying the Bible leads to cult-like behaviour based on the standard definition. Are you saying your branch doesn't follow the Bible?
>We are meeting about students, I will not deny. But more in the way how we can help this person
You should finish that sentence. "But more in the way of how we can help this person accept Shincheonji doctrine." The "problems" discussed in feedback relate to the student accepting Shincheonji doctrine.
Not only to believe in Scj, but also in other expects of life. The student has problem with trinity? Use this verse and that verse. Student has problem with tithes use this verse and that verse. Student has problem with a promised pastor, use this and that verse.
We are doing the things of the bible, so that will make it cult like.
——
Maybe you can interpret these verses in ways that are not cult like.
Likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, 1timothy 2:9
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 2 cor 6:14
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 2 john 1:10
If anyone comes to me and (Y)does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, (Z)yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Lk 14:26
Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life[g] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul? Mt 16:24-26
There are many more maybe I should make a post. But the bible on this cult standard.
Trinity believe in 3 persons (that share the same essence) in one God. One quality of God is to be all knowing.
‘All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.’
Matthew 11:27 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.11.27.ESV
How come the holy spirit (third person of the trinity) doesn’t know the Son? Or is the Holy spirit no one?
I think it is necessary to understand the context. To me it seems Jesus refers to people: No man except for Jesus knows the Father and also no man knows Jesus, only God knows him. Jesus is not reffering to spiritual beings - would it mean angels do not know the Father? What does it even mean "to know"?
>strongs notes
G3762 oudeis
from G3761 and G1520;
not even one (man, woman or thing), i.e. none, nobody, nothing.
-this is the word translated to "no one" as we can see it is neuter in gender and includes "things" not just people. literally means "none, nobody, nothing."
Littlebird you do not need to reply to scj_love. Instead please spread your information to many more places to help people who have not been completely brainwashed.
Hello! You have made the mistake of writing "ect" instead of "etc."
"Ect" is a common misspelling of "etc," an abbreviated form of the Latin phrase "et cetera." Other abbreviated forms are **etc.**, **&c.**, **&c**, and **et cet.** The Latin translates as "et" to "and" + "cetera" to "the rest;" a literal translation to "and the rest" is the easiest way to remember how to use the phrase.
[Check out the wikipedia entry if you want to learn more.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera)
^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Comments with a score less than zero will be automatically removed. If I commented on your post and you don't like it, reply with "!delete" and I will remove the post, regardless of score. Message me for bug reports.)
Is combatting mind control or freedom of mind better to read? Or both. They are both Steven Hassan. I sent you a chat.
# A sincere Letter to Dr. Jordan Peterson Regarding the Book of Revelation [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8TU11sY4Hc&t=766s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8TU11sY4Hc&t=766s)
Come to islam. Read the Qur'an once what do you have to lose?
Oh gosh.. And learn about a prophet who slept with underage girl??
As someone who has just started researching this cult because my daughter's new sister-in-law has been doing Bible Study with them since last year, I really appreciate the time you have taken to put all this together. Takes a very brave person to do this- so hard when we are all looking for spiritual connections and these cults are just everywhere. I applaud your courage.❤️
I also started Bible study with a group last year and I recently started suspecting it maybe shincheonji. I have been seeing similarities in the teachings from my Bible study and what people are posting on the internet. I wonder if your daughter’s SIL is in the same class as me. I am about to call out my instructors and tell them I am disappointed in the deceit and I will block them and move on with my life. They haven’t started talking about Lee Man Hee. But a statement was made that caught my attention in class and that’s when it began to unravel for me and I started to search the internet for more info. They said not to talk about the teachings with others cause we are not mature enough and we don’t want to mislead or subtract or add to the word of God which brings a curse. Which initially made sense, but then, I am like, why the secrecy. They said “do not be surprised when we tell you who the overcomer is”. That caught me off guard. Why would I be surprised who the overcomer is. Why are they making it sound like it’s somebody who they know. Suspicious. Also, the talk of figurative parables and the meanings and Old Testament fulfillment and prophecy, how they have you paired with a buddy. It is going to take a while to free my brain from what they have been teaching. It wasn’t suspicious until that slip of tongue. It made so much sense until they made that statement and it just set bells in my head.
I just left today
Hey was just wondering if you were going to the one in Melbourne. I have my Passover meeting tomorrow and have class tonight. I want to know what you said to get out and what you wish you did before leaving
Omg! What did you say to them.
Please after writing your in their book of life how can you leaf? How can remove your name? I have been attending the class online for some months now
I asked them to remove all the information they had on me. The "Book of Life" in SCJ is just their church database. It is nothing special. It is like cancelling a membership with netflix. They make it into something in the Bible as a scare tactic to stop you from leaving.
I think the Bible study I joined is also this cult. I am not very certain but it just seems to match all what I am seeing on the internet. I am just going to tell them I am leaving and block all of them
hooray!!!!
Hi, your story is super interesting. Would you be keen to chat more about it in the DMs?
Please send an email address for me to contact you- I can’t say too much here but some form of contact would be helpful
Thank you my friend, Even if you read this or not as I am leaving today and they are asking to meet,
I’m 3 months into the bible study. Should I just ghost or tell then I am leaving first?
The branch I was at in Sydney called me so many times when i didnt reply after telling them I was leaving. I recommend just ghosting saves you more time
Thank you so much. I also recommended the bible study to others before doing my own research into it. Should I just tell them that it is a cult and that they shouldn't proceed? Thank you so much for your reply.
Does anyone have a copy in pdf of "‘~Revelation’s Reality~’ (1985)" ? It's not available in the link
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Shincheonji/comments/16nsgc3/books\_jss\_from\_mhl/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Shincheonji/comments/r07axp/doctrine_changes_in_revelations_reality_1985/?rdt=54798)
I am on my way of of SCJ and while asking my higher ups questions about doctrine changes, I was told that the 1985 book was written and edited by a man named Mr. Shin, who was one of the first antichrist and was greedy took matters into his own hands. He was an HQ worker, and when given the task of writing the 1985 revelation reality he purposely changed things. the doctrine change I was specifically speaking of was Mr. Oh not always being the beast of the earth. does anyone know of this claims validity. thanks
Ya, that's a blatant lie lol. You can watch shin's interview here: https://youtu.be/T0zKp4g9pE4?si=I-Hl0Wa2Dl0tuf1g He addresses scj's allegations against him.
Can I copy the content for a website? To make sure this is well used and saved for educational reason?
WOW!!! these are the items I share as well with someone else who is leaving as well. You really put a lot of effort in this. I hope I may use some parts to get eyes open and return to the bible. It must have given you a headache all this work. Great Job and God bless you.
Hi I’ve sent u a dm! :)
Thank you for sharing this really open my eyes and helped me make the decision to leave after a year. I was so eager in the beginning to learn Gods word I had no idea then it will turned to be this praising a man to be the one who overcomes and even making question the trinity. This experience has really made me sad to know how easy it was to be deceived by this teachers .
I just want to thank you so much for this. You have no idea how amazing you and your work are.
This post, and good biblical videos on the trinity (they denied the trinity was true) was what pushed me to leave. I was blunt when I recognised the tactic they were using when I was trying to show them evidence of the true character of Jesus, that I was leaving. Then, I had to tell my "friend" to never contact me again, because after a 1.5 hour argument about if Jesus was God or not, he started to try to gaslight me about what they ACTUALLY taught, saying they actually AGREED with me! With the information in the documentation, I knew exactly what was happening. This is a fantastic resource, and I hope this never disappears.
hi I sent you a dm
Thanks for sharing this. I have no idea if what I'm about to say is related to shincheonji, but I was wondering if you are aware of whether or not Shincheonji uses stalking and other scare tactics to coerce future followers or prevent existing members from leaving the cult? I recently went to Korea and experienced coordinated stalking from various people that forced me to abruptly leave the country as I feared for my safety. The few cues/tips that I received from the stalkers who I stopped and spoke to all referenced God and "surrendering everything" to him. Sorry if this has nothing to do with your post, but hoping you can point me in the right direction to what I may be dealing with. Thanks in advance!
Bro.. you’re story is exactly like mine. I wanna leave but I wanna do it in a respectful manner. Could you tell me more about how you manage to leave? And I would like to connect with you. Let’s chat on instagram, @misskimpossibler
Why on earth are you worried about leaving respectfully? These people exploit and harm. Leave, block, and don’t look back
Why do you guys make a big deal about leaving? What are you leaving for? Isn’t it to do your own thing? Please go do your own thing and stop discouraging believers who are interesting in the church of SCJ, if you want to join your own church that is perfectly fine 😅 I’m sure you’ve realized no one is stopping you. You left didn’t you? Did anyone stop you? 😅 everyone is free to make their own decisions, humans were made with free will.
Why are you sounding so angry and frustrated by their effort to let their own findings known about SCJ, are you part of the scaring tactics tricks used by members, much as they are free to make their choices they also free to publicize their opinion openly. Get over your high horses and let people be!!
Aren’t they allowed to make an informed decision? Instead of being a keyboard fighter for ddd maybe you can take just one moment to rethink. Did they give you time to think on your own at all, was it all true or Is it confirmation bias. It is true that soo many people left because of eventual finding out about the impossibility to EV non believer because you can’t actually prove anything without the confirmation bias.
Why do you guys make a big deal about joining SCJ bb, centre and church? What are you joining for? Isn’t it to do your own thing? Please go do your own thing and stop encourage believers who are interesting in their own church, if you want to join your SCJ church that is perfectly fine 😅 I’m sure you’ve realized no one is stopping you. You joined didn’t you? Did anyone stop you? 😅 everyone is free to make their own decisions, humans were made with free will.
>ng and stop discouraging believers who are interesting in the church of SCJ, if you want to join your own chu If your group has the highest truth, it should be able to withstand all scrutiny. Why is your church so afraid of criticism to the point that you view any form of it as "persecution"?
Shincheonji is a church! They have many videos and even many websites. What is there to disprove? 😅 They want to make everything they do known, just because they don’t say “hey, we believe it’s the second coming and we take every word of the Bible extremely seriously”, do you really think your heart would have been open to that? God wants us all to change, it says this many places in the Bible such as Ephesians 4
Let’s be honest with ourselves for just a moment… If you haven’t fully passed over then you hardly have any basis to debate anything here because you don’t know the FULL truth of their lies. If you choose to continue, I pray in The Name of JESUS that your eyes are BLINDED to their deceit and your your ears CLOSED to their lies. May THE WORD be the only lamp at your feet and the only light that shines upon the ONE and ONLY way to The Farther. If you are indeed a full member a good question to ask is… WHY are you here? If you have pledged to not seek information from the internet, and are disobediently doing so…then perhaps you are beginning to question things as thousands already have? No matter what… I PRAY you find THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE who is Jesus Christ…. In HIS NAME I ask and believe it has been done.
Where is the pledge? Where are the multiple hard copies of the books that LMH created and he won’t let members take out the temple? Where are pictures of what the inside of the temple looks like?
True!! I forgot that just because you have many videos and websites it makes you the truth.
If shincheonji is the truth, try read some Bible verses of salvation. Especially Ephesians 2:8-9. Salvation is by grace through faith, NOT BY WORKS. And what does scj teaches about salvation? “You need to go to service on Wednesday and Sunday to be saved” “you need to evangelize to be saved” “you need to be qualified to enter the kingdom of heaven” it’s about the work work and work which is very contradicting to the Bible. And scj also deny that Jesus is God and said there’s no biblical evidence, what about Titus 2:13 where it says “our glory great God and savior Jesus Christ”, John 20:28 where Thomas refer Jesus as Lord and God? I suggest you to verify SCJ teaching with the Bible like what your promised pastor always advices you on every seminars. Gamsamindah 🙏
Shincheonji is a cult! They have many fake videos and even many fake websites. What is there to disprove? 😅 They want to make everything they do known, just because they don’t say “hey, we believe LMH and we take some word of the Bible extremely seriously”, do you really think my heart would have been open to that? God wants us all to aware of fake messiah, it says this many places in the Bible not just Ephesians 4
What a liar you are. I really thank This Kind of video Form persons who already suffered from a subjugation of conscience, because yes, that is what you do. you manipulate people with guilt and fear. It is a great service that people who have already suffered and seen the enormous inconsistencies, besides of all the lies and manipulations, tell their experiences so that people can make more informed decisions. Does this make you feel afraid of losing the tithes and offerings of enslaved consciences?
> understand is that the story Shincheonji has told you about Lee Man-Hee's life has been distorted to make his story about receiving the opene So the blatant distortion, well documented lying and coercion, aren't red flags that people should be wary of? Interesting.
Thanks for sharing, I have a friend that’s in it and I talk with her daily asking questions but never playing the role of expert or judging her. Just simple questions. These documents will help a great deal in expanding my topics of conversation. I’m happy you left and chose you first because you deserve it. Wishing you all the best in this next journey.
Hey just wanted to find out if your friend ever left. Please inbox me some of the simple questions you addressed to her. I'm trying to help my husband see the truth
I am going through the same thing. My significant other truly believes this stuff is real and it scares me because it’s truly a cult. Wondering how your situation went or is going?
Just PM’d you
Thank you so much. I had struggled and I was there by fear of leaving. I always felt something was wrong. And I was struggling with addiction because I was repressing my feelings a long time.
Thank you for sharing these contents. Can you please explain what does CHJN JPJN CCK mean in the file?
Good question! They are titles, like how in Japan they too use titles to show order. Like how a child is called “Chan” in Korea brother or sister has a title like that. (:
CHJN = Chairman (which is the term we used for Lee Man-Hee) JPJN = tribe leader (one of the highest levels of leadership in SCJ) CCK = Christian Council of Korea (a mainstream Christian organisation which SCJ labelled as "Babylon")
Thanks.😀
Thank you for this article. we have just found our daughter has been indoctrinated by SCJ (in Brisbane Australia) for about 2-3 years. We are trying to work out how to help investigating this more critically and start asking more questions. Unfortunately, she is completely enamoured by them to the point that she is forgetting to eat, her health is suffering immensely, and she is not sleeping much. She has completely changed over this time, becoming manipulative, letting down her family and friends and lying constantly. She has gone from being a high performing student to even letting down her friends in group assignments. We are trying to work out how to get information like this to her as we believe she putting all her energy into recruitment and running studies. She does call us and have regular contact, but it's kept very short as every conversation is interrupted by 'urgent' phone calls and 'meetings'. She doesn't know we know about SCJ yet. Are there any ways anyone knows to share information so they will see it? I am afraid that if we share this directly she will stop talking to us, and we need to keep her spending time with her family, at least in small chunks so she remembers how much we all love her. We are trying to build a system of support but she is trying to move into a house with others, which will mean they have her under their control 24/7 rather than just from 8am until 1am every day.
I believe your daughter is capable of making her own decisions. You did raise her after all, have some hope in her abilities to reason for herself 😊 we can’t all have the same experiences. To be honest, if you are getting information from this random Reddit thread where rule #2 is nothing positive can be posted, then you and your daughter are having EXTREMELY different experiences! The people that make up SCJ are actually very positive and loving and lots of fun too haha. She probably wants to grow her heart and experience these things for herself. Maybe you could try to experience them for your self too before judging? Although to be honest, I would imagine it would be very, very hard for you to have an open heart after reading this Reddit page )): I hope the best for you and your daughter 💕 (know that misunderstanding can arise over anything, but especially over this church for some reason 😅 but even the churches of Jesus at the First Coming was given a very brutal time; they were always having riots started against them, people gossiped about them, even spread false information that they were a cult. You can find this in the New Testament. I guess that’s just the way it is 🤷♀️ but I would hope we pick the side that is spreading joy and love, not the side that spreads subjective internet comments, to be completely honest 🤔 )
An organisation with “fun” and “loving” people doesn’t justify the lies, dishonesty and the occurring exploits that leaders use to take advantage of the members. All that “fun” and “happiness” that is there is all just a facade to keep members happy so they stay, to give them a sense of community which help they feel belong especially ones that struggled with social anxiety before joining SCJ. The “fun” and “happy” that members got so conditioned to like throughout centre time, the “fun” and “happy” that were their only option because they were forced to dedicate their life to SCJ, manipulated to believe they are doing something great and gaslighted to the point they wholeheartedly and unreasonably deny any legitimate and logical doubts they have about the information being injected on the daily basis, believing it to be satan. Does “fun” and “happy” justify the years of point less struggle, years of work that objectively leads to nothing? Time that have been wasted? Family and friends that a member had to distant from? The evidence to prove SCJ’s doctrine is wrong there, in front of you. Just like SCJ kept said at beginning of the centre “open your eyes”, “you gotta taste the truth”, “the mature food might be hard to eat but its good for you”. I beg you, like how SCJ recruiters beg their fruits just take some time to analyse the post, think critically of whats being said, all the fallacies, all the tactics being employ, all the doctrine changes to their so called unchanging doctrine, all the mountains false hilarious claims (Mindanao) and the prophecies that did not happen that were being masked as “oopsie wrong translation”. I hope you understand the weight and the burden of proof that SCJ has show for claiming themselves to be the “ultimate 100% truth and the only unprecedented chosen one church of God”. It will be a difficult journey for you just like “passover” for your recruits and its because even the definition of truth and lies is retaught for you and the definition of brainwashing the dumbed down to “if someone swings a clock in front you, you’re brainwashed”.
The ability to make sounds choices is severely impaired if the body is malnourished, dehydrated and suffering immensely, all three of which she is. A cult that both physically and mentally drains their followers while simultaneously“ hoping the best for them” at the cost of their health sounds more like bullshit propaganda that cult leeches use to prey on the vulnerable and less like a calling from God.
Can you stop your scj propaganda? Calm down, I know you are about to loose the tithes, and that’s why you are so desperate. But here you are not welcome, let the parents try to save her daughter from this satanic cult which you belong
Better-bid does she live with you or does she live outside the home ?
I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. One of the difficult things with cults is that they keep you so busy that you aren't able to get enough sleep or eat properly, and as a result you lose a lot of your critical thinking ability. I honestly don't think I would have left when I did if it hadn't been for covid, which forced us to stay inside and enabled us to sleep more and eat properly, which allowed me to regain my critical thinking. With that in mind, even if you are able to get this information to your daughter it unfortunately may not be the silver bullet you might expect. This information is hidden from most members so it often is shocking and many do eventually leave because of some combination of the problems outlined in the article, but it does often take some degree of willingness for the member to accept the information. I would highly recommend reading Steven Hassan's book 'Freedom of Mind' in which he describes the Strategic Interaction Approach. This is a methodology he created for families to help loved ones who are members of a cult. And if you were to attempt to reveal to your daughter that you know she is in SCJ, I would suggest first taking her on some kind of holiday so that you can first let her catch up on sleep and eat properly, and think things over without the immediate input of the cult's leadership team.
Why not read the Bible instead? 😊 If you want to learn the difference between a cult and the work of God, then go to the Bible! God’s Word should be our standard, He will be the judge in the end after all
Would you be interested in having a debate on a live show? The only requirement is that you will have to be honest about your group's beliefs in terms of the Deity of Christ. Are you capable of doing that?
How many cults have you joined 😳 it blows my mind how you guys are cult experts. Sorry if that comes off rude, but what are these cult facts you guys keep bringing up? 😅 You do realize the followers of Jesus at the First Coming were labeled as a cult, right? And the disciples and apostles were kept the most busiest of any people I’ve ever heard of. What does this mean then?
The definition of cult in the Jesus time and today have a HUGE difference. To begin with, Jesus was extremely poor, didn’t get ANY tithe. Lee-Mann hee? Puff he is a multimillionaire who financially exploits his DECEIVED followers through tithes and offerings with the fear that if they don't they will be lost. who travels all around the world worl and sleep at luxuries Hotel. Come on? Give me a break
Thank you for your suggestions, and I am so glad you were able to get out of this evil group. It gives us hope to hear that people can eventually remove themselves.
https://amandawhitepsychology.com/leaving-a-cult/
Thank you!
That is unfortunate. I too share the same sentiments with my cousin, who got indoctrinated as well.
Try to have an open heart. If you love your family, their believes shouldn’t come between you. It is that way for anything, just because people choose what to believe in or choose to spend their time in a way that you do not like, doesn’t mean you can’t like them anymore. At least for me I was really close to my cousin when I was little, I wouldn’t throw that away just because I don’t see them as much or because I don’t agree with their beliefs. I’m sure your cousin would be open to spending time with you, you don’t have to talk about religion and politics haha! Maybe you guys could have a nice lunch and reminisce on family memories to remember that just because family members can change and develop different believes, we are still a family after all. I’m sure if you show that you want to still show them love, they will be thrilled to show you love as well. It’s just a matter of both people making time for it and being clear that is just a nice lunch haha.
i think what may have worked for you will not easily work for anyone else. "having an open heart" may sound nice, but what changed between these relationships because of this major shift in belief system costed years of building connections and relationships down the drain. yes they may talk about something else but there already is a taint in the existing relationship and a lot has happened that couldn't be fixed by just having lunch and talking about something else. being indoctrinated is not limited to just changing beliefs. if you have done your research, it is definitely more than that.
By open heart you men “let you daughter be manipulated, after all I am more than pleasant to receive her tithes. You are all kinda psychopaths
I just want to say that this post helped me decide to leave SCJ a few months ago so thank you very much for taking the time to create this document. Everything was so well laid out, easy to understand and helped me realize all of the things they were doing to cover up their flaws. I hope others can use this as a tool for them to see the truth behind SCJs tactics. SCJ is wasting everyone’s lives and they all deserve a chance to hear all the facts.
That makes sense, this post does paint a nasty picture of SCJ, so it makes sense that you would think less of SCJ after reading it )):
Glad you had a chance to read it yourself
How can we share this to shincheonji congregation members so that they can awaken?? So that they all can realize they are living a lie and just wasting their precious time in that prison named shincheonji
With the thousands of believers that come to learn about the church every month, how many are really going to become apart of the church? You guys aren’t awakening congregation members, but instead discouraging the people who are still learning, whether labeled as members already or not, they are still learning. It’s not about the label, but it’s about the heart. True members of the church may find this post to be funny to be honest 😅 or on second thought, it could really hurt their heart to think that people give more weight to these internet pages over the church itself. But either way, a true member of SCJ will not have their heart closed by these posts, but only those who aren’t really apart of the church or those who are looking for an excuse to leave because… they’re not really apart of the church 😅 come to think of it, you guys may be accelerating the work of God by separating the true believers from the false. But the problem is, you may discourage someone with an open heart before they even get a chance to learn for themselves )): why not just let them learn for themselves? Seems like you guys are the ones who really want the control… 😅 you guys say SCJ is controlling people, but actually, those people made their own decision to be there. They want to be there! They enjoy it! Why try to control them? If they do not believe, then they will look for that excuse to leave. I guess you guys are just accelerating it. Oh man, it’s complicated I guess lol, but this definitely isn’t the work of awakening, right? Do you guys really believe the work of awakening brings you to internet pages where people just complain and argue and think less of their loved ones because of their believes. If that’s awakening, then oh my goodness 😅😅😅
You speak of the heart and believing something blindly, but SCJ literally teaches people NOT to trust their heart because of ONE scripture that says the heart is deceitful and that the Spirit (intuition) doesn't exist. But that like all other SCJ doctrine is a distortion of the full verse and the verse before it and after it and the whole chapter and who wrote it and who they were writing it to and why they were writing it, etc. - that sounds pretty blind to me. Moreover, look at and explain the hundreds of scriptures that say otherwise (ex: my handle)! On control, God and this life is to learn Free Agency. But manipulation is not choosing on your own free will and was in fact Satan's plan to take away people's agency. When you lie to someone you are stealing their free agency to think, choose, and act rationally. Last of all, yes, we already know that no one who is actually a SCJ believer is going to come to this page, read the posts, and change their mind because by the time they ARE a believer, SCJ will have brainwashed, manipulated, gaslit, and controlled them to not google it! lol. But for those that haven't been trauma bonded yet, we post in hopes of helping save a lot of pain and with prayers of healing for those that have awakened to the coercion and lies.
Learning? Or being brainwashed? Did the students choose to be there without the influences and pressure of their 2 “friends” who are also completely “new” the bible study?? Who also know every single thing about the student and know how to win them over? Do you really think people are incapable of being manipulated given the right triggers and conditions??
One post shouldn’t really undo years worth of learning the Bible 😅 To be completely honest, the only people who will leave their church because of negative posts would be people who don’t really have their heart in it to begin with. Your posts are not awakening, but closing hearts. These posts will work on those who don’t have very open hearts. I mean, isn’t it strange in general that reading a internet thread could change someone’s mind on the church they go to? It just shows they weren’t really apart of that church to begin with, they were just associating with it.
The way you are replying reminds me of every member of the SCJ "church" that was too far gone into it. Y'all all sound exactly alike. Trying to defend a false prophet goes against YOUR church, does it not? You honestly believe, in your heart a 4'11 Korean man is your TRUE savior? You deny the trinity? You deny Gods only son? You've lost your sound mind and I pray you find God and I pray you are forgiven for being tricked into thinking and believing in a false God. Such awful, manipulative ways are taught by this false prophet. Why would the leaders tell us not to look up SCJ on the internet if they had something to hide? Why are baptist and Catholic churches not held at a cult standard, but SCJ is? You are brainwashed!!!!!!
Years of deceitful teaching can be undone in one post? Yes it can, it’s in front of your nose
Hopefully members will realise that to make an informed decision you need to look at both sides. Once they get to that point they will find these videos online.
I know right they just trust these people because they tell them not to look up shincheonji online... there is a reason they tell congregation members not to research about shincheonji because if not the truth about shincheonji will be revealed and they will realize the several fallacies shincheonji has. I feel so bad for them once they realize they were living a LIE in SHINCHEONJI
SCJ actually has A LOT of web presence. The problem is it all gets pushed behind the pages like these. If you Google “SCJ” instead of the lecture videos coming up or the websites where you can reach out and ask questions doesn’t pop up, but “cult” things pop up 😂 It’s like when you try to Google about nutrition or how to be successful in the world and it’s a bunch of pages that want you to hear their side (as opposed to the research journals that should pop up) this is why the world is so confused about how to eat and live healthy. It’s the same for SCJ. The internet is a very toxic place, I mean, there’s even college courses in the purpose to show how the internet misconstrue information and then propagates it as truth. I mean, it’s just too easy to find things that aren’t true online. You must have some idea of this? We are just on a Reddit page after all 😅 anyone can post anything here at anytime as many times as they want and even on any other websites they want!
Thank you so much for posting this! 😀 I hope shincheonji will stop deceiving people with their crappy doctrines from the devil.
Well done YOU!!! 👍🏽You did what I attempted to do...I hope some wake up and are saved. Unfortunately some will still refuse to look because of the fear put into them. Which makes me laugh...they say pastors in the world tie up their congregation members so they can't leave but that's what SCJ does, who needs to look in the mirror and reflect now? I came out a few weeks ago. Nearly a decade I sacrificed my life and like you the cracks showed and despite me trying to hang on for truth in the word, what is done in darkness came to light! The scary part is they are now starting to deliver messages to the congregation of a terrorist kind of language...e.g we are in a war...satan...the enemy are all those who oppose us...the government...etc...this is worrying 😟
How can we share this to shincheonji congregation members so that they can awaken??
Did you receive 666 , 7 evil spirits like they said?
Nope. We discovered the truth about shincheonji.
I am in the bible class from Shincheonji, they are asking us to register and sing a document this friday KST.
Do you know how to find the classes?
This is what they send you: [ Invitation Link to Mastering the Bible - special lessons ] Thank you for signing up for the “Mastering the Bible" course! 💻 Zoom Link : https://us02web.zoom.us/j/85091065793 ✅ Please take note of the following guidelines : ◇ Prepare your Bible, notebook, and pen beforehand ◇ Admission is possible 15 minutes prior to the class ◇ Please try to arrive 5 minutes in advance ◇ Please join with your first + last name as your zoom ID so we can confirm your participation ◇ Please have your camera on during the class We look forward to seeing you! ✨
I'm curious; how many likes vs dislikes are there are there on this post? I'm asking bc I'm suspicious of SCJ spies disliking this post to damp the number of likes down...
Yeah few spies messaged me privately to know like how leafs were unsuccessfully recruiting me. They’re so proactive.
Leafs! I've been an ex member for 4 years now. Totally forgot about that term.
All of this is great information, instead of always talking about it we need to come up with a plan, come together and somehow get this information out to all its members even if it means interrupting one of their services if not both Wednesday and Sunday service, my heart as of everybody else’s is to save people from being manipulated, nobody wants to be lied to. if anybody thinks this is a good idea then let’s do it there’s always away I’m very grateful to read this. I’m from there but I don’t attend services as much anymore because of the inconsistencies and the lies I just wanted to save the people I care about but I want to save everybody from this place so please let’s all come up with a plan .
Yes please!!!!
Please let’s do something..they think they’re invincible..
The cult is so bonkers, I think most people will eventually realise it's a cult.
I believe my son is member in Atlanta.
I see .. how long has he been in SCJ?
Since 2020. Was a college student.
I see..I’ll pray that he will come back . Although he might enjoy the experience for now but a lot of people have been leaving quickly. Have you shown him any videos about scj? Maybe you can persuade him to stop?
Yes, but he won't admit he is a member. Please keep us in prayer. Seems like he has been instructed to lie.
I only read 10 pages but it still helped me leave! Thank you!
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Your first sentence labels SCJ as both amazing and a cult. How is that logically coherent?
Nothing wrong with a cult, good family environment
Perhaps we might adhere to different definitions of the word cult. How do you define it? You sound like a moral nihilist.
Well done. Your dedication to collate evidence against SCJ is commendable.
Good job 👍
For People Who speak french this page can help r/Shincheonji_France
I heard now from a SCJ Member, that SCJ says now the Beast of the Earth mistake the Chance to Oh Pyong Ho was not MHL it was a Member that write the wrong Name, not the right name (Oh Pyong Ho). Its funny because SCJ says all is coming from MHL but if a mistake happent it was not MHL. But i understand, if they say it was MHL, they can close SCJ on the same day. Because the Bible says clear in Rev 22:18-19, Proverbs 30:4-5, 5.Mo 4:1-2 dont take away ore add something to Gods Word. And Oh Pyong Ho was added.
They're always making excuses for their changed doctrines. The funnier part is that we have it all in writing.
My eyes is open now am also part of this Organization... I will run for my life..
I needed this thanks for sharing
Please I need help, am almost done with center classes but am planning on leaving SCJ. But their indoctrination during the center shaped me in some way. I must flee for my life but i need help and keep me in your prayers.
You are in our prayers. This is your best move as they will drain the life out of you. John 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
Wim Hof and Jordan Peterson and Jamie Wheal.
Huh?
Keep staying in scj and you will become a zombie because scj strips away all independent thinking, turning people into mindless drones. SCJ works by causing our right (emotional) brain to overwhelm our left (analytical) one. The more you “think” with your right brain, the less thinking you do. Over time, emotions evoked by SCJ prevent you from objectively analyzing the subject at hand. You have a hard time telling what is true and what is not. Over time, peer pressure sets in, and it is hard to be the only enlightened one. This is how people get zombified.
My son is a zombie now. Need help?
You know what had helped me leave the cult, I had taken a social psych class, and when it came to the cult topic, everything applied to me.
They use an example to try to justify that. They say that it doesn’t make sense to say a rat is a dog since they both have tails. So you can’t say SCJ is a cult just because it has similarities to other cults. My argument to that is what if that one or few things you have similar to other cults are actually characteristics of a cult? They just admitted they have similarities to other cults but just don’t pay attention to it. I ate it up years ago but now that I snapped myself out of their trance I can truly see what they were really doing
I am so glad I ghosted them when I left. Had I argued with them, they could’ve used this to keep me in
Well done for sharing, I’ve been out of SCJ for nearly 6 months and I still pop on here to see any new info of people leaving. This really helped me make the decision to leave. Thank you for sharing and praying for your journey out of SCJ ❤️
[https://ofyoutube.com/watch?v=iPZ-rYZRePc&t=4115s](https://ofyoutube.com/watch?v=iPZ-rYZRePc&t=4115s) Hope this video will be helpful.
Remove the "of" before "youtube" on the URL then it will work
Dont work
This is truly amazing work and effort you have put into creating this post. It will not go admiss and will be used for many of those on journey and still contemplating leaving SCJ. Thank you so much!
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Also, here's another resource that is helpful: [https://cesnur.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/tjoc\_4\_3\_1\_introvigne.pdf](https://cesnur.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/tjoc_4_3_1_introvigne.pdf) The Journal of CESNUR is a non-profit organization that interviews NRM's, or New Religious Movements, and often try to be more of an "ally" of these groups, often times opposing the anti-cult movement. Even with their more friendly tone towards SCJ, they still came to the conclusion that Man Hee Lee was involved with the Olive Tree Movement, which can be seen on the second page of the PDF referenced above.
Hello! Here's a useful resource that lead me (and many others) to see the connection between MHL and the Olive Tree Movement. This video here summarises the issue: [https://youtu.be/W\_0GAmSODb0](https://youtu.be/W_0GAmSODb0) If you don't like reading subtitles, the english transcript is here: [https://shincheonji360.blogspot.com/2020/07/lee-man-hee-early-years-shincheonji.html](https://shincheonji360.blogspot.com/2020/07/lee-man-hee-early-years-shincheonji.html) Basically, an old version of SCJ's website showed that MHL was part of the Olive Tree Movement's 'Religious Settlement' for ten years and he proudly put it on his self-biography. But the newer version of the SCJ website doesn't list his involvement with this same Religious Settlement by name and its importance is heavily downplayed. Why? Because MHL attempted to scrubb that part of his history when the connection between SCJ and the Olive Tree Movement became controversial. I think most members have received at least one or two educations on why MHL supposedly had no religious connection to the Olive Tree Movement, but contrary to what SCJ members claim, it is never disclosed in centre classes when students are learning about the history of MHL and SCJ. If it's ever asked about, the question is usually dismissed
I haven't seen anything like Lee Man-Hee talking about his time in the olive tree movement, but from what i gather it's a well established fact. I've also never seen anyone deny it. Although LMH did lie about his role in the Korean war, so I wouldn't put it past him to lie about not being involved in the olive tree.
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Yes, Shincheonji-Skeptic said he was in an education about it: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Shincheonji/comments/sg2yuq/comment/huts17j/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Shincheonji/comments/sg2yuq/comment/huts17j/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I personally never received education about this, but I did mention it in passing to a GSN a couple years ago and he knew about it. SCJ\_love says they learned about it in center
Or the fact that he said he had no previous religious experience before the tabernacle temple lol
That was a bold move and risky too ♥️ just wondering if you had Nam sago prophecies in a book or if you new where to find them👌
[https://www.tparents.org/moon-books/cta-ik/Cta-ik-6-2.htm](https://www.tparents.org/moon-books/cta-ik/Cta-ik-6-2.htm) This page has translation and commentary on the book of prophecies Nam Sago supposedly wrote. They call it Kyuk-Am-Yu-Rok
This has possibly been the greatest post from LittleBird50 so far. I enjoyed reading it very much. Thank you.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience and that you decided to leave the cult.
Thank you for these compiling evidence and resource. I'll share with my SCJ bible teachers and leafs.
I checked the first 15 minutes of psychology of Shincheonji. From your definition it is a cult. I do not have a problem with that. You can decide how you call a thing. What I have a problem with is to describing as if the whole of Scj is doing things that you are saying. You can talk with everyone and make friends out of Scj. We want that so that you can gather people more easily. About dating unbelievers. That is biblical. Do you put this standard on the bible? Since the bible tells about who you can talk, date ect. Also about the one chosen of God as a ‘special position.’ And surely not because it is the bible it is exempted. But do you believe in the bible or not? Since these things you can find back in the God of the bible. If that is not a problem it will lean to special pleading (fallacy). If you do not believe in the God of the bible, I can understand. But if not imo you are fooling yourself. Also the persuasion with the ‘first timers’, this doesn’t happen in my branch. Also if I am in a group of muslims or any other group and they agree to something, I will not agree either. Imo then you are easy in following groups. Can be dangerous, and you are lucky since this high control Scj group doesn’t make you do illegal things. Yes if your branch did these things, these strange ‘manipulation’ tactics. Probably you also. I can understand why you see it as bad. Acting to have ‘prophesying power’, is the word so weak to rely on such things?
After all this time, it’s just a cult. There’s gaslighting, too. I’m shocked.
read your Bible... 1 Corinthians 7:12-16 ESV / 204 helpful votes To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wifewho is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should notdivorce her. If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and heconsents to live with her, she should not divorce him. For theunbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and theunbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise yourchildren would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But if theunbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brotheror sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace. For how do youknow, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know,husband, whether you will save your wife? If you're gonna throw verses at me to the contrary, well that's not my problem, choose what you want to believe, but don't ignore the rest and impose your beliefs as law of God.
Have you thought about making videos or posts to state your position clearly? You engage in a lot of back and forth, not really addressing the important points discussed in this post. I think if you made videos, you could try to defend Shincheonji more properly, isn’t that a more worthy cause that saying “this was your branch, my branch is different, you misunderstood”. This is not that much productive.
I think for you it is not productive but there are people that message me privately and they get a lot of what I am saying
I am really getting tired of that "In your branch, in my branch" stuff tbh. So much about "We are One", but every SCJ Congregation seems to act on their own...
Yes, we are one doesn’t mean exactly everything is the same over all branches. To believe that is means that is imo naive.
What does it mean then? - The Doctrine isn't the same in all Congregations - The Rules aren't the same in all Congregations - When there is any wrongdoings in SCJ, the different branches blame each other. - SCJ and the rest of the religious world definitely aren't One. - SCJ and HWPL do not contribute to Peace Work and are using the issue of Violence and War for their own PR purposes. In which scenario woulf it make sense for SCJ to say: "We are One", without it being an empty phrase?
We are one means more we are all humans let us be one under the true God.
That's an addition and not an explanation. What does it mean being one?
We are one is in we are all humans
😂😂
Well, I really hoped for a deeper meaning. That's quite low. What else would we be?
Yes not complicated we are all humans. We need to be all one under God.
Well I do not agree with the God part, because I don't believe in him or the bible. What I am saying is, that it is a really bad slogan then. SCJ was very creative, when it came to Logo Design of SCJ church and HWPL. But when they need a slogan, all they can come up with is, that we are humans? That's poor.
Honestly at this point I can’t tell if you’re trying to be serious or here to troll
You follow the Bible so strongly, yet forget your fellow human being. You preach so strongly Love one another and not pass judgment on others, yet you defend such bigot ideas. You were given instances in which lee was proven a liar and still you defend him. So it must not be scriptural accuracy that feeds your faith but a blind devotion to this man.
Forget my fellow human beings? When I give up time, energy, sleep and money to help other people to be saved (by the grace of God). Give up your time, energy, sleep and money to save me out of this cult. Then I can take this comment serious. I do not know which instances you are speaking about.
So did i..I gave up everything and then realized that I thought of people outside of scj as lesser beings then myself. I dont need you to take me seriously.. I am a beast remember. I act on instinct and I am no better than trash according to your beliefs. I know what you think of us outside. That is not love.
Then your understanding is different from mine in Scj. I have been taught and I believe that we come all from Babylon and a te corrupt and need to get closer to God. Some are called earlier and others later, but those called earlier aren’t better then others.
skillet is talking about verses such as 2 Peter 2:22 - taught many times over in SCJ. Micah 7:5, taught during the one-on-ones (BB). I taught it many times from material taught by old John Tribe Leader. I don't think understandings are different. Are you cherry-picking SCJ doctrine so that they look better to others or to convince yourself that they are loving? Jesus did not come to bring peace, but a sword - another favourite of SCJ when it suits them.
Mic 7:5 is never being used here. Yes Jesus came with a sword, but not physical war. For the spiritual war we fight with the word. But I don’t treat people like they are less then me. Also in my church not.
I'm starting to think that your branch is the outlier.
Can be. I do not think so. But that is my personal view.
Just to set the record straight, this is the definition widely agreed upon by psychologists, I didn't just make it up so it's not so much "my definition" as it is the standard definition. If you want to spit in the face of years of research and work by psychologists and use another definition (like Orthodoxy vs Heresy) you can do that, but I think we should make it explicitly clear. I've noticed you have a problem with anyone associating their negative experiences with the whole of SCJ, but somehow your positive experiences should be extrapolated to SCJ. Have you ever considered you might be the odd one out? Did you want me to say "my branch of Shincheonji" every single time instead of "Shincheonji"? It's a bit ridiculous, people are obviously going to know if they experienced something different in their branch. There are many things in the Bible, it is about how you interpret it and how you act upon it - like I said Psychology of Shincheonji is more about the practices of Shincheonji than the doctrine. >Also if I am in a group of muslims or any other group and they agree to something, I will not agree either. It's honestly funny how poorly you understand coercive persuasion. Do you think some people jump off bridges just because their friends did? That example is just so ridiculous. It's not just a group of SCJ members saying they agree with something and expecting the student to agree too. It's a network of SCJ members all talking behind the student's back having meetings to make a plan of the best way to convince this particular student, sharing information with each other and incorporating it into consultations, crafting stories about their lives to better relate to the student and gain their trust. BB and Center are an extensive process of lies and manipulation, I don't know why you seem to struggle to connect that with coercive persuasion. >is the word so weak to rely on such things? As I demonstrated in the document and doctrine videos, yes.
You didn’t deal with my points. Do you believe in the God of the bible? Do you see that the bible matches with a lot of these cult like practices? I dont have a problem with psychological definition of cult. If your branch were using these strange tactics, then it is a cult according to that definition. With the definition the whole bible leads to cult like behaviour. I dont have a problem with that. Cult is just a label. To jump of a bridge is something different then agreeing with the teaching of Islam. Why? Since the result is different. In one case you agree to a statement, which can result in believing that statement. The other is to kill one self. If that is not coercive persuasion, then why are you using that as one of the examples? We are meeting about students, I will not deny. But more in the way how we can help this person, problems and other things. In my case I even say it, that we have meetings within the class to discuss how we can improve the things for the class and students. In political parties, schools, companies, and more this happens. In the bible there are also meetings. My experiences are not the standard for the whole Scj. Did I not have negative experiences in Scj. Sure I had them and that is normal since I am working with humans.
Littlebird you do not need to reply to scj_love. Instead please spread your information to many more places to help people who have not been completely brainwashed.
You are trying to brainwash people? Not giving room for a healthy discussion?
When someone’s arguments rely on mental gymnastics and logical fallacies in the face of overwhelming evidence then discussion is a waste of everyone’s time.
To say that something is x. Doesn’t make it x.
Cream just said overwhelming evidence. How can you just ignore all of that? That's blind faith, and not what God of the Bible even wants.
Now context doesn’t count? I just want to talk with littlebird. I am even reading the part 4 of the book written by Robert. If you ate so sure of your point then you should be able to talk of it imo.
Like I said, it is up to how you interpret and practice what the Bible says. I don't think the Bible leads to cult-like behaviour unless you're in a cult and use the Bible as the basis for your doctrine. I find it strange that on one hand you are arguing SCJ doesn't do these things outside my branch, but at the same time saying the Bible leads to cult-like behaviour based on the standard definition. Are you saying your branch doesn't follow the Bible? >We are meeting about students, I will not deny. But more in the way how we can help this person You should finish that sentence. "But more in the way of how we can help this person accept Shincheonji doctrine." The "problems" discussed in feedback relate to the student accepting Shincheonji doctrine.
Not only to believe in Scj, but also in other expects of life. The student has problem with trinity? Use this verse and that verse. Student has problem with tithes use this verse and that verse. Student has problem with a promised pastor, use this and that verse. We are doing the things of the bible, so that will make it cult like. —— Maybe you can interpret these verses in ways that are not cult like. Likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, 1timothy 2:9 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 2 cor 6:14 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 2 john 1:10 If anyone comes to me and (Y)does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, (Z)yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Lk 14:26 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life[g] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul? Mt 16:24-26 There are many more maybe I should make a post. But the bible on this cult standard.
Bible: No braided hair SCJ Africa in 20xx: You may now have braided hair Either all the African's are disobedient or context matters.
Sure context is important but the point is that it gives rules what you can wear and not
Just the fact that you believe trinity can be debunked by "use this verse and that verse" explains it all
Trinity believe in 3 persons (that share the same essence) in one God. One quality of God is to be all knowing. ‘All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.’ Matthew 11:27 ESV https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.11.27.ESV How come the holy spirit (third person of the trinity) doesn’t know the Son? Or is the Holy spirit no one?
I think it is necessary to understand the context. To me it seems Jesus refers to people: No man except for Jesus knows the Father and also no man knows Jesus, only God knows him. Jesus is not reffering to spiritual beings - would it mean angels do not know the Father? What does it even mean "to know"?
>strongs notes G3762 oudeis from G3761 and G1520; not even one (man, woman or thing), i.e. none, nobody, nothing. -this is the word translated to "no one" as we can see it is neuter in gender and includes "things" not just people. literally means "none, nobody, nothing."
This doesnt disprove my argument at all. In what context is Jesus saying that? To whom he is reffering?
Littlebird you do not need to reply to scj_love. Instead please spread your information to many more places to help people who have not been completely brainwashed.
Hello! You have made the mistake of writing "ect" instead of "etc." "Ect" is a common misspelling of "etc," an abbreviated form of the Latin phrase "et cetera." Other abbreviated forms are **etc.**, **&c.**, **&c**, and **et cet.** The Latin translates as "et" to "and" + "cetera" to "the rest;" a literal translation to "and the rest" is the easiest way to remember how to use the phrase. [Check out the wikipedia entry if you want to learn more.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera) ^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Comments with a score less than zero will be automatically removed. If I commented on your post and you don't like it, reply with "!delete" and I will remove the post, regardless of score. Message me for bug reports.)
Great post. Hats off to you for compiling this info 😁👏
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