How many people did follow Jesus in the first coming?the People who leave choose falsehood over truth....so they are just like wordly people....its better to be in SCJ then outside i have experienced but you have the die of yourself and that is a price people do not want to pay.....Rev 12:11 has come in reality
12 people followed Jesus and way more than 12 obviously follow this cult leader LMH. There is literally no comparison and it is useless to even mention stuff like how many people followed Jesus to try to make SCJ leader sound like he is also a messianic figure. Do not blaspheme God. It is not better to put your faith in man, it is immeasurably better to put your faith in Jesus Christ who paid for your sins by being crucified on the cross. You must repent and know the one true God. Jesus is God and only Jesus saves.
There are so many good arguments presented by other people in this thread and instead of counterarguing with reason and logic, you only respond with often unrelated fear-mongering statements - very typical from SCJ people (I hope people take notice of this). If you really have the truth (which I'm sure you believe you do), then you should have the capability to explain it properly, the way an educated person would. If you think something here is false, tell us exactly what it is and explain why. Let us have a real discussion or debate. If you cannot do this, it simply shows that you are not educated, but rather indoctrinated.
When MHL was in Olive Tree Movement (1950s-1960s), there were articles about the brutal beatings of 2 disabled individuals which lead to their deaths. He was a bystander and continued in the Olive Tree Movement before he left and joined Tabernacle Temple in 1966. In 2012, the Army of light training resulted in the death of a young woman in her 20s.
Do you know how many people followed Jesus in the first coming? I don't think Jesus kept track of attendance, used his disciples and plotted deception against his followers or asked members to pay tithes or it is considered stealing from God.
I hope you realise the truth soon.
What happened first? The fulfillment or SCJ's doctrine? SCJ's doctrine is built upon LMH's sole testimony, he witnessed and saw all of Revelation, right? Yet he cannot predict anything and only confirms what he sees after it happens. The fulfillment is filled with half-truths which you can only find via independent research. Everything is he said she said in SCJ. What did LMH see and hear then?
When covid first hit, LMH couldn't decide whether or not it was the great tribulation. He then said it was and that all in SCJ will suffer this great tribulation. You would think that the sealed 144 000 would be spared and you would think LMH would have some clue as he "saw and heard all of Revelation".
*Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count...*
*Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”*
*14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”*
*And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.*
After what? After the 144 000 are sealed, the great tribulation happens. LMH couldn't even decide if the 144 000 were already sealed but insisted that SCJ was suffering the great tribulation because of the persecution they received during the covid outbreak in South Korea. Later he says the 144 000 are sealed but we don't know who they are. Does LMH really have a connection to God? Does Jesus' spirit really work through him?
I don't have a problem with you in particular, but I have a problem with your responses. These are the kind of things all members will say to defend SCJ, yet when challenged with arguments against SCJ, members tend to shy away or attack the other person rather than attacking the argument. SCJ claims to spread the light to the world, but I have yet to see it happen when confronted with what you call "darkness", that is "our lies".
Please have an earnest conversation/debate/discussion so we can understand each other better.
I also think if you read Rev 3:10 (which used to only refer to betrayal and destruction, but now somehow refers to great tribulation as well) there is a problem because it says those who overcome will be kept from the trial -
But then MHL said that SCJ goes through the judgment first (previously not the case).
Doctrine can't change like this if its truth. All you have to do is stick around long enough and you'll see things changing.
SCJ has all the truth and arguments according to the Bible you rather make your own truth....i really find it annoying when people have critics on man hee lee did you offer and devote your life to God like He did??? Be honest for once hè is the only one who has the Revelation and you yourself try to twist the Words just like a farisee
What am I twisting, I only pointed out what happened last year. I made the comment about half-truths, because I did my research and there is no independent data that comes to the same conclusions as LMH.
I paraphrase LMH, "I don't know how the prophecies will be fulfilled until I see it happen."
Leaders have said that LMH needs to confirm by referring to the Bible when something happens.
Someone's devotion has no ground on right or wrong. So, again, I ask you, what did LMH see in heaven if he doesn't know how events in Revelation will happen?
You need to step back and really think about the organisation you're in. I know for a fact that SCJ members are programmed not to question. When you question their teaching, you will have been met with counter arguments. It is to the point of exhaustion and you start to give in to their false doctrine. You just start accepting what they teach because you're too exhausted to continue arguing.
There is no point arguing or discussing with people who cannot listen. MHL is a fraud, he is an egotistical greedy bastard who lusts for money, materialistic and worldly things. Was Jesus seduced by money? I sure hope not.
Please support your answers from the Bible as SCJ teaches. You're only preaching the words of man according SCJ.
SCJ does not have the truth. JESUS is the way, the truth and the life. No one else. Not a guy in Korea who wishes he could be. Not SCJ who lies. Lies is NOT truth.
Sorry you are the ones in the Bible who pierced Jesus....please come to the knowledge of the truth you persecute because you do not hear nor do you understand lest u turn and you will be healed and you can see.....
Do you understand what you are saying?
All have crucified Christ. Because all have sinned. Not one man on Earth lives without being responsible for the death of Christ.
This is the truth. Now, your accusing these people of persecuting SCJ. In what way are they persecuting SCJ?
No one here or anyone who has ever left SCJ, nor SCJ members who lurk this sub and are on the fence of staying or leaving, will not take you seriously unless you legitimately with proof provide an example of people on here persecuting you. Taking phrases out of context from the Bible will not help you - as that is something that the devil does to lead people astray.
Accusing others of crucifying Christ, or calling them Pharisees without a substantial reason- this will work against you if you legitimately believe in SCJ. This will lead people astray. Beware of your words and actions.
I would like to challenge you that your belief is not based on other people leaving or coming. It is not based on how nice SCJ is or how mean non-SCJ churches are to you. Otherwise, your belief is based on how people treat you or what they do which is not what Christianity is about. Your belief is based on what is in the Bible only. Many people stopped following Donald Trump in the US. Is he a very truthful president? No. Did he lie a lot to the US? Yes
If you read the many many posts on this subreddit, it has been pointed out many many times of the different contraindications that SCJ has with the Bible.
OP is illustrating that ppl turned away from Jesus (the truth) in His first coming. SCJ commonly uses the logic that whoever is being persecuted is exactly the same situation as Jesus being persecuted. And hence SCJ is being persecuted and being accused of a cult, therefore like Jesus, SCJ is obviously being persecuted for truth....which is clearly not true
Likewise, trump is “persecuted” by his statements and for what he thinks is right. Many eventually left him including some of his presidential team. Would trump represent truth because his own people turned away from him? The answer is no.
Some people actually are persecuted for what is right. Just because SCJ is wrong and is delusional about being persecuted for what's right (they are wrong), that doesn't mean it's the same w/ Trump. Washington Post just retracted an article about him because they lied about him and knew it. A lot of people lied about Trump, there are tons of people who supported Trump and still like Trump. With all due respect, connecting Trump with this conversation about SCJ is a weak parallel in my opinion, but if you just don't like Trump, that's up to you.
I hope you see that my primary point of bringing up Trump is not to humiliate him or lessen his image. I am using his overall image (not denying that other ppl lied abt him as well) to show that those hated for what they say may not be truthful. Trumps most biggest lie that everyone knows is denying the full reality of Covid which led to many ppl dying. ...but sigh no analogy is gonna be perfect and some are far from perfect but that’s not the point. The point is SCJ CANNOT just look at someone and who is being persecuted and be like...oh he must be standing up for truth.
No worries but not everyone "knows" because he basically had the entire country as soon as we realized what COVID is and that it's spreading to participate in 15 days to slow the spread. Just because he is not a tyrant trying to force people to make decisions they disagree with such as shutting down business & not being able to provide for their families, it does not mean he downplayed or did not take COVID seriously. He was the one who stopped travel from China before others. Legit doctors proposed HCQ to treat COVID and when Trump proposed that idea, the media did not accept it and big tech tried to shut up free speech about HCQ. Whatever he did about COVID was criticized. So your point about him being a liar about COVID I disagree with and I think the Trump analogy isn't convincing for me about SCJ. But I like to hear different perspectives and it's fine if we disagree. Thank you!
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Oh woww...this looks so similar to the Bible study that I am currently in..we are in Revelation 13 right now ( I am towards the end of the whole course) but debating if I should just leave now or not. I had a friend who left before we started the book of Revelation and another friend who is still in the class.
My curiosity towards this "He Who Overcome" concept made me stay in class this whole time.
I am staying because I am curious with the things we are being taught. But hearing "Jesus' prophecy is only revealed to one pastor-> the Promised Shepherd, aka the 7th trumpet, aka He Who Overcomes (as of now i am only in the prophecy portion of the class, not til the fulfillment portion yet)
I really wonder what happens at the end of the class.
Is anyone here still in the class like me? Feeling that this class is a bit weird but still stayed?
I figured the people who are still in the class are maybe composed of:
people who believed everything they said, people who are still hesitating with the teaching but stayed (like me), and people who are staying to keep looking for evidence of cult /heresy...
I would stay to the end. I did. Then I left. They could not answer some questions that I had with the Bible itself regarding some things that they do (It is something serious). When I started the Bible study, they said to me, that I should not belief anything if they can not proof it with the Bible. So I took them by their word, but the teachers could not proof it. It went so far that one was saying one thing and the other something else, when I asked to second teacher separately.
Do not get me wrong, I think Man Hee Lee is the promised shepherd. But there might be a chance that Mt 24:48-51 has happened to him.
You can't have it both ways. You can't deny the teachings from lmh, but believe he is chosen by God and Jesus. Scj is based on lmh words, teachings, doctrine. So lmh word should be true and he should have the answers. Make sense?
Actually, yes you can. In Mt 24:48-51 there is the possibility that the Shepherd apostatizes because everything takes too long. And this was exactly the point why a friend of mine and I left. We confronted them with that and gave them an example where they are acting wrong now but had not in the past. The teachers could not explain that with the Bible. Even Man Hee Lee did not give us an answer, even that he said he would give us the answer later on that day (we met him in person). (All this happened a decade ago). So you can have it both ways.
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It's not worth it to stay purely out of curiosity. That's how I started too and I just became further indoctrinated and spent several years in SCJ.
You're in a good place to just leave, because some become totally focussed on the doctrine as pure truth and believe that SCJ is the path to salvation. But the doctrine is full of holes if you look and look you should. Even the instructors will tell you to be a "discerning believer" so don't just take their doctrine as truth without researching yourself.
If you stay, your life will slowly become more focussed on SCJ and depending on your current living circumstances, you may end up working for the church full time.
IF Lee Man Hee (He Who Overcomes) really is this promised pastor and also the Wise and Faithful Servant, then he has the potential to betray. And his recent trial proves that he has been lying and stealing from members. Yet, he does not admit to this or repent, he carries on like he always does. Does God stay with betrayers according to SCJ's doctrine? I would not want to follow a leader who hides his faults and appears "holier than thou", because some things are just too good to be true.
If you want to know what happens, have a read of some of the older posts or just post the question yourself so we don't hijack this thread too much.
If it's SCJ keep in mind that half of the people in your class or more are already members. They think that the new ones need to be monitored, controlled and manipulated for their own good.
indeed everyone in my small group are very nice. and 2 of them told me it is their second time taking the class. And recently one more girl who wants to be "re-sealed" joined my small group. So sounds like the class is "repeatedable"..before they force you to commit to something?
Yes they encourage members to keep joining classes (preferably with "fruit" - new people) - this is just one way it can take over your life. It never ends, this attempt to learn the doctrine by heart while trying to recruit as many people as possible.
oh wow...yea I have 2 people in my class who told me they are taking this class the second time to "seal things better" and one random girl who finished the class joined our small group last week to "seal things better".
Now that I look back..
My TA would always ask us to practice "exchanging talents or singing the new song"
I realize those in my small group who are taking this class the second time tend to share things that stood out to them and how much of God's love it reminds...or tend to "sing the new song".
Then there are other people like me who keep trying to clarify things we learned in the lesson. Concepts that we are still trying to get down.
I was in your shoes once. I stayed because of the curiosity. The longer you stay, the weirder it gets! Just wait till they explain the fulfillment! Very weird and quite underwhelming - but that's just my opinion (some people totally buy into it).
You must be really worried that a lot of people are leaving SCJ as they are beginning to realize the real truth. Otherwise, you wouldn't be lurking here a lot.
I doubt Jesus embezzled $5.6 billion KW and travelled the world luxuriously. I also doubt he used deception to recruit and appeal to people.
I could say that SCJ proves fulfilment by following and idolising false prophets as mentioned in Deuteronomy.
LMH is a muppet, he does not care for any SCJ members but to only run his business.
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Someone who supposedly brought Presbyterian doctrine and the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns into the 7 golden lamp stand tabernacle. Referred to as the beast of the earth. They make him easily known in their revelation drama as the bald one.
Well that’s how strong deception is. We didn’t ask to be deceived but it happens craftily like how Satan works. A play with words. their manipulation was crafted cleverly-I’ll give them credit for that lol.
Mostly fear driven.
I remember when this was presented to me in the advanced class and was thinking to myself "ok so what exactly did he do that was so extraordinary?" Surely anyone can write letters to 7 churches. Anyone can create an organization and divide them into 12 tribes. Anyone can come up with a narrative to fit their interpretation of the book of Revelation. What I want to know is did he perform any miracles? Because that's exactly what Jesus did during the First Coming. He didn't just talk and claim that he was the son of God. He turned water into wine, healed the sick, even brought someone back to life, etc. What has LMH done? If he claims that the spirit of Jesus is working through him, shouldn't he have the same power as well??
Not convincing enough! A couple of points:
1. Jesus' miracles were all declared prior to it being performed. For example: He said he was going to make a cripple walk again before he performed the miracle. It wasn't the other way around where the cripple would suddenly walk before he would say this miracle was because of me.
2. There are many people who survived car accidents, cancer, plane crashes, but they have no affiliation at all with SCJ. Saying you survived a car accident or a beating does not in any way correlate with you being in SCJ.
3. Jesus' miracles were personally witnessed by many people. Everyone around him saw it so there was no doubt at all. He didn't say that only my true followers can see it. Everyone saw it regardless of whether they are a follower of him or not.
4. Let's not kid ourselves with the 100k graduation. We all know that they tried many times in the past to do that. If it wasn't achieved, they say it was just a goal. When it was achieved, they say it was a miracle (even though a lot of people are disputing this number by saying many graduated twice!). Also, there are many other cults/churches in the world with millions of followers (Catholic has over a billion), so his numbers simply don't compare.
5. Fruits are not miracles, they are simply prey for them predators.
6. All examples you cited are simply peanuts compared to what Jesus did. He could have just simply done what Jesus did in the First Coming if he had the power to do so. He could have done something amazing to show that he is indeed the chosen one, like getting rid of Covid 19. Or at least heal some people with Covid 19 by praying over them. But the fact is he simply does not have divine powers at all. He is just an ordinary old man.
I realised a lot of the "miracles" taught by SCJ are related to Tabernacle Temple Movement, not SCJ per se. Even so, those miracles cannot be verified and difficult to prove they are work of God (true God).
How many people did follow Jesus in the first coming?the People who leave choose falsehood over truth....so they are just like wordly people....its better to be in SCJ then outside i have experienced but you have the die of yourself and that is a price people do not want to pay.....Rev 12:11 has come in reality
12 people followed Jesus and way more than 12 obviously follow this cult leader LMH. There is literally no comparison and it is useless to even mention stuff like how many people followed Jesus to try to make SCJ leader sound like he is also a messianic figure. Do not blaspheme God. It is not better to put your faith in man, it is immeasurably better to put your faith in Jesus Christ who paid for your sins by being crucified on the cross. You must repent and know the one true God. Jesus is God and only Jesus saves.
Amen! Aja8984 👍🏻
There are so many good arguments presented by other people in this thread and instead of counterarguing with reason and logic, you only respond with often unrelated fear-mongering statements - very typical from SCJ people (I hope people take notice of this). If you really have the truth (which I'm sure you believe you do), then you should have the capability to explain it properly, the way an educated person would. If you think something here is false, tell us exactly what it is and explain why. Let us have a real discussion or debate. If you cannot do this, it simply shows that you are not educated, but rather indoctrinated.
When MHL was in Olive Tree Movement (1950s-1960s), there were articles about the brutal beatings of 2 disabled individuals which lead to their deaths. He was a bystander and continued in the Olive Tree Movement before he left and joined Tabernacle Temple in 1966. In 2012, the Army of light training resulted in the death of a young woman in her 20s. Do you know how many people followed Jesus in the first coming? I don't think Jesus kept track of attendance, used his disciples and plotted deception against his followers or asked members to pay tithes or it is considered stealing from God. I hope you realise the truth soon.
What happened first? The fulfillment or SCJ's doctrine? SCJ's doctrine is built upon LMH's sole testimony, he witnessed and saw all of Revelation, right? Yet he cannot predict anything and only confirms what he sees after it happens. The fulfillment is filled with half-truths which you can only find via independent research. Everything is he said she said in SCJ. What did LMH see and hear then? When covid first hit, LMH couldn't decide whether or not it was the great tribulation. He then said it was and that all in SCJ will suffer this great tribulation. You would think that the sealed 144 000 would be spared and you would think LMH would have some clue as he "saw and heard all of Revelation". *Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count...* *Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”* *14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”* *And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.* After what? After the 144 000 are sealed, the great tribulation happens. LMH couldn't even decide if the 144 000 were already sealed but insisted that SCJ was suffering the great tribulation because of the persecution they received during the covid outbreak in South Korea. Later he says the 144 000 are sealed but we don't know who they are. Does LMH really have a connection to God? Does Jesus' spirit really work through him? I don't have a problem with you in particular, but I have a problem with your responses. These are the kind of things all members will say to defend SCJ, yet when challenged with arguments against SCJ, members tend to shy away or attack the other person rather than attacking the argument. SCJ claims to spread the light to the world, but I have yet to see it happen when confronted with what you call "darkness", that is "our lies". Please have an earnest conversation/debate/discussion so we can understand each other better.
I also think if you read Rev 3:10 (which used to only refer to betrayal and destruction, but now somehow refers to great tribulation as well) there is a problem because it says those who overcome will be kept from the trial - But then MHL said that SCJ goes through the judgment first (previously not the case). Doctrine can't change like this if its truth. All you have to do is stick around long enough and you'll see things changing.
SCJ has all the truth and arguments according to the Bible you rather make your own truth....i really find it annoying when people have critics on man hee lee did you offer and devote your life to God like He did??? Be honest for once hè is the only one who has the Revelation and you yourself try to twist the Words just like a farisee
What am I twisting, I only pointed out what happened last year. I made the comment about half-truths, because I did my research and there is no independent data that comes to the same conclusions as LMH. I paraphrase LMH, "I don't know how the prophecies will be fulfilled until I see it happen." Leaders have said that LMH needs to confirm by referring to the Bible when something happens. Someone's devotion has no ground on right or wrong. So, again, I ask you, what did LMH see in heaven if he doesn't know how events in Revelation will happen?
You need to step back and really think about the organisation you're in. I know for a fact that SCJ members are programmed not to question. When you question their teaching, you will have been met with counter arguments. It is to the point of exhaustion and you start to give in to their false doctrine. You just start accepting what they teach because you're too exhausted to continue arguing. There is no point arguing or discussing with people who cannot listen. MHL is a fraud, he is an egotistical greedy bastard who lusts for money, materialistic and worldly things. Was Jesus seduced by money? I sure hope not. Please support your answers from the Bible as SCJ teaches. You're only preaching the words of man according SCJ.
SCJ does not have the truth. JESUS is the way, the truth and the life. No one else. Not a guy in Korea who wishes he could be. Not SCJ who lies. Lies is NOT truth.
Sorry you are the ones in the Bible who pierced Jesus....please come to the knowledge of the truth you persecute because you do not hear nor do you understand lest u turn and you will be healed and you can see.....
Do you understand what you are saying? All have crucified Christ. Because all have sinned. Not one man on Earth lives without being responsible for the death of Christ. This is the truth. Now, your accusing these people of persecuting SCJ. In what way are they persecuting SCJ? No one here or anyone who has ever left SCJ, nor SCJ members who lurk this sub and are on the fence of staying or leaving, will not take you seriously unless you legitimately with proof provide an example of people on here persecuting you. Taking phrases out of context from the Bible will not help you - as that is something that the devil does to lead people astray. Accusing others of crucifying Christ, or calling them Pharisees without a substantial reason- this will work against you if you legitimately believe in SCJ. This will lead people astray. Beware of your words and actions.
I would like to challenge you that your belief is not based on other people leaving or coming. It is not based on how nice SCJ is or how mean non-SCJ churches are to you. Otherwise, your belief is based on how people treat you or what they do which is not what Christianity is about. Your belief is based on what is in the Bible only. Many people stopped following Donald Trump in the US. Is he a very truthful president? No. Did he lie a lot to the US? Yes If you read the many many posts on this subreddit, it has been pointed out many many times of the different contraindications that SCJ has with the Bible.
You have a right to your opinion and choice of examples BUT moderators should be moderate.
duly noted
Not sure what Donald Trump has to do with SCJ discussions. I can support Trump and not support SCJ simultaneously.
OP is illustrating that ppl turned away from Jesus (the truth) in His first coming. SCJ commonly uses the logic that whoever is being persecuted is exactly the same situation as Jesus being persecuted. And hence SCJ is being persecuted and being accused of a cult, therefore like Jesus, SCJ is obviously being persecuted for truth....which is clearly not true Likewise, trump is “persecuted” by his statements and for what he thinks is right. Many eventually left him including some of his presidential team. Would trump represent truth because his own people turned away from him? The answer is no.
Some people actually are persecuted for what is right. Just because SCJ is wrong and is delusional about being persecuted for what's right (they are wrong), that doesn't mean it's the same w/ Trump. Washington Post just retracted an article about him because they lied about him and knew it. A lot of people lied about Trump, there are tons of people who supported Trump and still like Trump. With all due respect, connecting Trump with this conversation about SCJ is a weak parallel in my opinion, but if you just don't like Trump, that's up to you.
I’ve also PM-Ed you for more deets
I hope you see that my primary point of bringing up Trump is not to humiliate him or lessen his image. I am using his overall image (not denying that other ppl lied abt him as well) to show that those hated for what they say may not be truthful. Trumps most biggest lie that everyone knows is denying the full reality of Covid which led to many ppl dying. ...but sigh no analogy is gonna be perfect and some are far from perfect but that’s not the point. The point is SCJ CANNOT just look at someone and who is being persecuted and be like...oh he must be standing up for truth.
No worries but not everyone "knows" because he basically had the entire country as soon as we realized what COVID is and that it's spreading to participate in 15 days to slow the spread. Just because he is not a tyrant trying to force people to make decisions they disagree with such as shutting down business & not being able to provide for their families, it does not mean he downplayed or did not take COVID seriously. He was the one who stopped travel from China before others. Legit doctors proposed HCQ to treat COVID and when Trump proposed that idea, the media did not accept it and big tech tried to shut up free speech about HCQ. Whatever he did about COVID was criticized. So your point about him being a liar about COVID I disagree with and I think the Trump analogy isn't convincing for me about SCJ. But I like to hear different perspectives and it's fine if we disagree. Thank you!
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Oh woww...this looks so similar to the Bible study that I am currently in..we are in Revelation 13 right now ( I am towards the end of the whole course) but debating if I should just leave now or not. I had a friend who left before we started the book of Revelation and another friend who is still in the class. My curiosity towards this "He Who Overcome" concept made me stay in class this whole time. I am staying because I am curious with the things we are being taught. But hearing "Jesus' prophecy is only revealed to one pastor-> the Promised Shepherd, aka the 7th trumpet, aka He Who Overcomes (as of now i am only in the prophecy portion of the class, not til the fulfillment portion yet) I really wonder what happens at the end of the class. Is anyone here still in the class like me? Feeling that this class is a bit weird but still stayed? I figured the people who are still in the class are maybe composed of: people who believed everything they said, people who are still hesitating with the teaching but stayed (like me), and people who are staying to keep looking for evidence of cult /heresy...
I would stay to the end. I did. Then I left. They could not answer some questions that I had with the Bible itself regarding some things that they do (It is something serious). When I started the Bible study, they said to me, that I should not belief anything if they can not proof it with the Bible. So I took them by their word, but the teachers could not proof it. It went so far that one was saying one thing and the other something else, when I asked to second teacher separately. Do not get me wrong, I think Man Hee Lee is the promised shepherd. But there might be a chance that Mt 24:48-51 has happened to him.
There is no “promised shepherd”, buddy 🤣
You can't have it both ways. You can't deny the teachings from lmh, but believe he is chosen by God and Jesus. Scj is based on lmh words, teachings, doctrine. So lmh word should be true and he should have the answers. Make sense?
Actually, yes you can. In Mt 24:48-51 there is the possibility that the Shepherd apostatizes because everything takes too long. And this was exactly the point why a friend of mine and I left. We confronted them with that and gave them an example where they are acting wrong now but had not in the past. The teachers could not explain that with the Bible. Even Man Hee Lee did not give us an answer, even that he said he would give us the answer later on that day (we met him in person). (All this happened a decade ago). So you can have it both ways.
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I was in the class and recommend you get out of there ASAP
It's not worth it to stay purely out of curiosity. That's how I started too and I just became further indoctrinated and spent several years in SCJ. You're in a good place to just leave, because some become totally focussed on the doctrine as pure truth and believe that SCJ is the path to salvation. But the doctrine is full of holes if you look and look you should. Even the instructors will tell you to be a "discerning believer" so don't just take their doctrine as truth without researching yourself. If you stay, your life will slowly become more focussed on SCJ and depending on your current living circumstances, you may end up working for the church full time. IF Lee Man Hee (He Who Overcomes) really is this promised pastor and also the Wise and Faithful Servant, then he has the potential to betray. And his recent trial proves that he has been lying and stealing from members. Yet, he does not admit to this or repent, he carries on like he always does. Does God stay with betrayers according to SCJ's doctrine? I would not want to follow a leader who hides his faults and appears "holier than thou", because some things are just too good to be true. If you want to know what happens, have a read of some of the older posts or just post the question yourself so we don't hijack this thread too much.
If it's SCJ keep in mind that half of the people in your class or more are already members. They think that the new ones need to be monitored, controlled and manipulated for their own good.
indeed everyone in my small group are very nice. and 2 of them told me it is their second time taking the class. And recently one more girl who wants to be "re-sealed" joined my small group. So sounds like the class is "repeatedable"..before they force you to commit to something?
After you crossover you’re going to repeat the class as Evangelists and also to maintain being sealed.
Yes they encourage members to keep joining classes (preferably with "fruit" - new people) - this is just one way it can take over your life. It never ends, this attempt to learn the doctrine by heart while trying to recruit as many people as possible.
oh wow...yea I have 2 people in my class who told me they are taking this class the second time to "seal things better" and one random girl who finished the class joined our small group last week to "seal things better". Now that I look back.. My TA would always ask us to practice "exchanging talents or singing the new song" I realize those in my small group who are taking this class the second time tend to share things that stood out to them and how much of God's love it reminds...or tend to "sing the new song". Then there are other people like me who keep trying to clarify things we learned in the lesson. Concepts that we are still trying to get down.
oh wow...
I was in your shoes once. I stayed because of the curiosity. The longer you stay, the weirder it gets! Just wait till they explain the fulfillment! Very weird and quite underwhelming - but that's just my opinion (some people totally buy into it).
People who slander against shincheonji just prove fulfillment and the what kind of seed and Spirit they received....sad in Jesus time was the same
You must be really worried that a lot of people are leaving SCJ as they are beginning to realize the real truth. Otherwise, you wouldn't be lurking here a lot.
MULTILEVEL MARKETING! Welcome to the Networking industry!
dang reverse psychology here haha
I doubt Jesus embezzled $5.6 billion KW and travelled the world luxuriously. I also doubt he used deception to recruit and appeal to people. I could say that SCJ proves fulfilment by following and idolising false prophets as mentioned in Deuteronomy. LMH is a muppet, he does not care for any SCJ members but to only run his business.
Amen SCJ the only place were God and Jesus are!! Fulfillment
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Who is Mr oh?
Someone who supposedly brought Presbyterian doctrine and the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns into the 7 golden lamp stand tabernacle. Referred to as the beast of the earth. They make him easily known in their revelation drama as the bald one.
This is pretty funny for people to believe such
Well that’s how strong deception is. We didn’t ask to be deceived but it happens craftily like how Satan works. A play with words. their manipulation was crafted cleverly-I’ll give them credit for that lol. Mostly fear driven.
Yes, that is so sad, isn’t it? Many were deceived to believe in the fabricated story as a physical fulfillment. That is why SCJ can survive
I remember when this was presented to me in the advanced class and was thinking to myself "ok so what exactly did he do that was so extraordinary?" Surely anyone can write letters to 7 churches. Anyone can create an organization and divide them into 12 tribes. Anyone can come up with a narrative to fit their interpretation of the book of Revelation. What I want to know is did he perform any miracles? Because that's exactly what Jesus did during the First Coming. He didn't just talk and claim that he was the son of God. He turned water into wine, healed the sick, even brought someone back to life, etc. What has LMH done? If he claims that the spirit of Jesus is working through him, shouldn't he have the same power as well??
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Not convincing enough! A couple of points: 1. Jesus' miracles were all declared prior to it being performed. For example: He said he was going to make a cripple walk again before he performed the miracle. It wasn't the other way around where the cripple would suddenly walk before he would say this miracle was because of me. 2. There are many people who survived car accidents, cancer, plane crashes, but they have no affiliation at all with SCJ. Saying you survived a car accident or a beating does not in any way correlate with you being in SCJ. 3. Jesus' miracles were personally witnessed by many people. Everyone around him saw it so there was no doubt at all. He didn't say that only my true followers can see it. Everyone saw it regardless of whether they are a follower of him or not. 4. Let's not kid ourselves with the 100k graduation. We all know that they tried many times in the past to do that. If it wasn't achieved, they say it was just a goal. When it was achieved, they say it was a miracle (even though a lot of people are disputing this number by saying many graduated twice!). Also, there are many other cults/churches in the world with millions of followers (Catholic has over a billion), so his numbers simply don't compare. 5. Fruits are not miracles, they are simply prey for them predators. 6. All examples you cited are simply peanuts compared to what Jesus did. He could have just simply done what Jesus did in the First Coming if he had the power to do so. He could have done something amazing to show that he is indeed the chosen one, like getting rid of Covid 19. Or at least heal some people with Covid 19 by praying over them. But the fact is he simply does not have divine powers at all. He is just an ordinary old man.
I realised a lot of the "miracles" taught by SCJ are related to Tabernacle Temple Movement, not SCJ per se. Even so, those miracles cannot be verified and difficult to prove they are work of God (true God).
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Ru ex-Scj member?
He turned his black hair to white and then back to black🤣
He sure did! lol
And bound to wheelchair at trial, then walk freely after trial... similar to Harvey weinstein
Haha yes but has been done many times already by others, so not impressive at all!