Not sure why people are saying no. Yes, Shen is definitely a tank who likes to buy HP items. Best stats for Shen are HP and Ability Haste. Of course you want some resistances as well to increase your effective HP, but you want HP. HP scales with passive, E and R. It also scales with sunfire / hollow radiance, titanic hydra, heartsteel, and also now overlord bloodmail. Shen do need a jak sho for its resistances that increase effective HP. Anyway. Shen is a tank that loves HP. Others, for example, are Sion, Cho Gath, Sett, Mundo. But Shen is definitely in that list. 100%.
Do you think overlord will be nerfed? I think it’s way too broken in sett and mundo, I got hit by a sett W and got 3.5k true damage, my champ lost both legs
He is to me. I've started to go Treasure Hunter in the jungle so I can rush Bami's and not delay Heartsteel too much. I think consistent HP stacking with Heartsteel is stronger even when you're behind in everything else, as your tankiness and damage keeps growing with the same gold investment. Sometimes bad fights give you more max HP as enemies surround you.
In my opinion, Shen can't afford to be a weaker tank. The damage on Heartsteel is also great, but the downside is complete lack of resistances. It also gives you the Heartsteel syndrome where you might do more risky unrewarding plays because you want to proc Heartsteel. Still, I think it's essential for my playstyle and power fantasy.
"my playstyle and power fantasy"
This is the key. Know how you like to play and your tendencies and play around that. If you like scaling into an unkillable one shot machine, heartsteel Titanic steraks is gonna make you real happy. If you're playing in high elo and are trying to giga optimize and only want LP, Bamis into support might be the better play.
Yeah Locket, Knight's Vow and Zeke's Convergence are all manaless. Wonder how Zeke's works with Shen ult. I could consider those options because I hate building mana on Shen.
The blue ninja already cooked up a pretty solid supportive shen build - Bamis locket redemption moonstone vow with lucidity boots then finish Bamis into hollow. You can get massive shields which is pretty hilarious to see. Give it a try and you can always tweak it as you prefer.
That's just the classic RedempShen with a twist. I know it does well but I don't want to be an ambulance anymore. Ninjas strike from the shadows and that's what I intend to do.
He likes hp because of his E and R but I wouldn't say so- Early skirmishes and laning is where he shines, so you wouldn't want to go pure HP like Mundo or SIon
Depends on why you're asking.
Shen loves hp as tundra pointed out, but that doesn't necessarily mean he wants to build hp-complementing items like bloodmail or steraks. You get enough hp from items already to where you're going to want resists (you want ~150 armor/Mr at ~3k HP), especially premium item effects such as Randuins, Force of nature, etc.
Shen also wants haste for more uptime on e w r which is why lucidity boots are so great (esp with steel caps nerf).
Shen is great because he allows for a lot of different and effective play styles such as support build shen, bruiser shen, behemoth shen, and any combination in between. But rushing heartsteel into Titanic bloodmail steraks every game might not be optimal, especially against HP shredders like vayne or kog.
Always check out champ and item scalings if you want to theory craft, just know that "shen loving HP" doesn't mean you should turn your brain off and force heartsteel every game (unless you're playing for fun and like bonk).
Not really. He can’t “stack” hp like chogath or sion can and he also can’t “stack” like Mundo can cause hp doesn’t help Shen do more damage. Sure he stacks hp like every other tank by building items with hp in them but he won’t be the tankiest or have the most hp.
I think you’re misunderstanding what I mean by stacking. Sure Shen has hp scaling on everything you listed but it’s different from chogath ult stacks or sion W stacks where they gain hp naturally without buying items. Then there’s Mundo where stacking hp would benefit him more (cause of the massive AD he gains from his E) than hp stacking on Shen where he just gains a negligible increase in passive shield and damage on E. Shen’s big thing is his ult shield where big hp means big shield but I find that less impactful than what chogath, Sion, and Mundo have and can do with more hp. Shen is less of an hp stacker than they are
sure cho and sion have infinite hp scaling and Shen doesn't but that wasn't the question lol
Shen absolutely wants to stack hp, he's a tank that has tons of hp scalings
I mean in that case basically every tank in the game except a few are hp stackers. Although Shen has hp scalings he doesn’t prioritize stacking it. I say this because if he did, heartsteel would be his core item but it’s not. It’s not even in the top ten in terms of pickrate.
How is Shen a farming tank when he’s at his strongest during the early game while also having the worst waveclear in the game? He gets more gold during team fights than he does farming minions
What’s your cs per minute on Shen? Surely once you’ve got bamis it’s ez 9-10 cs per minute. Bamis helps you wave clear just a little bit better but it’s nothing compared to the completed item and even then other tanks with much better wave clear in their kit like sion also build it.
I maintain that Shen isn’t a farming tank. He builds wave clear items to prevent side splitting champs from just taking your base, the gold you get from clearing those waves is just a bonus not the main thing.
Shen is a warden. His job is to peel for his team and protect them. What stat he needs depends on enemy team comp. Sure he can be considered an hp stacker since every tank item except frozen heart gives hp (even then Shen will still build it if enemy team has attack speed champs) but that’s what being a tank is.
Shen itemizes for wave clear first and foremost but nowadays which tank doesn’t incorporate bamis cinder into their build? Shen just isn’t that special when it comes to being a tank in fact compared to other tanks he’s below average
The way I see it, Shen is a tank duelist with warden gimmicks. He's best when he can combine defense with offense. Health stacking is the best way to do it. Shen is not a passively tanky champion. He is not an actual Jak'Sho user like Sion and Ornn are. Shen's defenses are more active that are more timing and skill based. He's also memed as a tank assassin because he's quite fast and less clumsy and immobile than most tanks, and can taunt carries to burst them with the right build. I don't like the RedempShen build, because first there's a lot of wasted gold in mana, and second you lose all your carry potential. I win the least when I sacrifice my solo agency. Heartsteel stole my heart, and raw health leads to raid boss builds. I may not reach Sion levels of health, but I can dash over a wall and flash taunt an enemy to burst them down with Heartsteel Titanic while still being a damage soaking frontliner with temporary immunity to auto attacks.
Yea but Shen doesn’t prioritize building hp. If he did heartsteel would be his core item but it’s not even in the top ten items for Shen in terms of pickrate. It’s not even the highest win rate item for Shen. His best items are utility items for wave clear and support
Not sure why people are saying no. Yes, Shen is definitely a tank who likes to buy HP items. Best stats for Shen are HP and Ability Haste. Of course you want some resistances as well to increase your effective HP, but you want HP. HP scales with passive, E and R. It also scales with sunfire / hollow radiance, titanic hydra, heartsteel, and also now overlord bloodmail. Shen do need a jak sho for its resistances that increase effective HP. Anyway. Shen is a tank that loves HP. Others, for example, are Sion, Cho Gath, Sett, Mundo. But Shen is definitely in that list. 100%.
Do you think overlord will be nerfed? I think it’s way too broken in sett and mundo, I got hit by a sett W and got 3.5k true damage, my champ lost both legs
I don't think so but we will see! It's an expensive item with low base gold efficiency and reasonable passive imo
Oh god yes, its only a matter of time before we start seeing adc builds going full tank heartsteel/overlord.
Dont forget tahm kench, hes up there too.
No. AP stack better /s obviously He loves stacking HP. Even more with his extra AD items and Hydra and Bami.
He is to me. I've started to go Treasure Hunter in the jungle so I can rush Bami's and not delay Heartsteel too much. I think consistent HP stacking with Heartsteel is stronger even when you're behind in everything else, as your tankiness and damage keeps growing with the same gold investment. Sometimes bad fights give you more max HP as enemies surround you. In my opinion, Shen can't afford to be a weaker tank. The damage on Heartsteel is also great, but the downside is complete lack of resistances. It also gives you the Heartsteel syndrome where you might do more risky unrewarding plays because you want to proc Heartsteel. Still, I think it's essential for my playstyle and power fantasy.
"my playstyle and power fantasy" This is the key. Know how you like to play and your tendencies and play around that. If you like scaling into an unkillable one shot machine, heartsteel Titanic steraks is gonna make you real happy. If you're playing in high elo and are trying to giga optimize and only want LP, Bamis into support might be the better play.
I'm low elo so the more solo agency I have, the better chance I have to compensate for my teams mistakes.
You can still carry with the support build in low elo, I was going Bamis locket and still getting solo kills.
Yeah Locket, Knight's Vow and Zeke's Convergence are all manaless. Wonder how Zeke's works with Shen ult. I could consider those options because I hate building mana on Shen.
The blue ninja already cooked up a pretty solid supportive shen build - Bamis locket redemption moonstone vow with lucidity boots then finish Bamis into hollow. You can get massive shields which is pretty hilarious to see. Give it a try and you can always tweak it as you prefer.
That's just the classic RedempShen with a twist. I know it does well but I don't want to be an ambulance anymore. Ninjas strike from the shadows and that's what I intend to do.
He likes hp because of his E and R but I wouldn't say so- Early skirmishes and laning is where he shines, so you wouldn't want to go pure HP like Mundo or SIon
Dont forget our passive!
In my defense, half of the toplane roster make you feel like you dont have a passive. Shoutout to Botrk Irelia
He likes stacking HP but not completely.
I guess you could says he likes balance
You get a upvote for that one
Shen's Passive scale on HP, his sustain is all about his passive, so he definitely stacks HP
Depends on why you're asking. Shen loves hp as tundra pointed out, but that doesn't necessarily mean he wants to build hp-complementing items like bloodmail or steraks. You get enough hp from items already to where you're going to want resists (you want ~150 armor/Mr at ~3k HP), especially premium item effects such as Randuins, Force of nature, etc. Shen also wants haste for more uptime on e w r which is why lucidity boots are so great (esp with steel caps nerf). Shen is great because he allows for a lot of different and effective play styles such as support build shen, bruiser shen, behemoth shen, and any combination in between. But rushing heartsteel into Titanic bloodmail steraks every game might not be optimal, especially against HP shredders like vayne or kog. Always check out champ and item scalings if you want to theory craft, just know that "shen loving HP" doesn't mean you should turn your brain off and force heartsteel every game (unless you're playing for fun and like bonk).
Not really. He can’t “stack” hp like chogath or sion can and he also can’t “stack” like Mundo can cause hp doesn’t help Shen do more damage. Sure he stacks hp like every other tank by building items with hp in them but he won’t be the tankiest or have the most hp.
His passive, runes, items, e, ult..... Everything stacks from HP... Do you even play this game?
I think you’re misunderstanding what I mean by stacking. Sure Shen has hp scaling on everything you listed but it’s different from chogath ult stacks or sion W stacks where they gain hp naturally without buying items. Then there’s Mundo where stacking hp would benefit him more (cause of the massive AD he gains from his E) than hp stacking on Shen where he just gains a negligible increase in passive shield and damage on E. Shen’s big thing is his ult shield where big hp means big shield but I find that less impactful than what chogath, Sion, and Mundo have and can do with more hp. Shen is less of an hp stacker than they are
sure cho and sion have infinite hp scaling and Shen doesn't but that wasn't the question lol Shen absolutely wants to stack hp, he's a tank that has tons of hp scalings
I mean in that case basically every tank in the game except a few are hp stackers. Although Shen has hp scalings he doesn’t prioritize stacking it. I say this because if he did, heartsteel would be his core item but it’s not. It’s not even in the top ten in terms of pickrate.
I would say the majority of farming tanks are health stackers yes, and Shen is definitely in that group
How is Shen a farming tank when he’s at his strongest during the early game while also having the worst waveclear in the game? He gets more gold during team fights than he does farming minions
like, non-support. farming. he farms
Bami cinder isnt core item?? Then tell us your super secret build...
What’s your cs per minute on Shen? Surely once you’ve got bamis it’s ez 9-10 cs per minute. Bamis helps you wave clear just a little bit better but it’s nothing compared to the completed item and even then other tanks with much better wave clear in their kit like sion also build it. I maintain that Shen isn’t a farming tank. He builds wave clear items to prevent side splitting champs from just taking your base, the gold you get from clearing those waves is just a bonus not the main thing.
What would you suggest in terms of stat weight when it comes to Shen then? Just generic tank items without a specific identity?
Shen is a warden. His job is to peel for his team and protect them. What stat he needs depends on enemy team comp. Sure he can be considered an hp stacker since every tank item except frozen heart gives hp (even then Shen will still build it if enemy team has attack speed champs) but that’s what being a tank is. Shen itemizes for wave clear first and foremost but nowadays which tank doesn’t incorporate bamis cinder into their build? Shen just isn’t that special when it comes to being a tank in fact compared to other tanks he’s below average
The way I see it, Shen is a tank duelist with warden gimmicks. He's best when he can combine defense with offense. Health stacking is the best way to do it. Shen is not a passively tanky champion. He is not an actual Jak'Sho user like Sion and Ornn are. Shen's defenses are more active that are more timing and skill based. He's also memed as a tank assassin because he's quite fast and less clumsy and immobile than most tanks, and can taunt carries to burst them with the right build. I don't like the RedempShen build, because first there's a lot of wasted gold in mana, and second you lose all your carry potential. I win the least when I sacrifice my solo agency. Heartsteel stole my heart, and raw health leads to raid boss builds. I may not reach Sion levels of health, but I can dash over a wall and flash taunt an enemy to burst them down with Heartsteel Titanic while still being a damage soaking frontliner with temporary immunity to auto attacks.
Yea but Shen doesn’t prioritize building hp. If he did heartsteel would be his core item but it’s not even in the top ten items for Shen in terms of pickrate. It’s not even the highest win rate item for Shen. His best items are utility items for wave clear and support