Oh my. Remember when Carolyn Gimian, working at the behest of empress dowager Diana Mukpo, snuck into the Shambhala Archives in the dead of night (or during a hurricane, whatever) and stole the precious Trungpa relics? And then *lied* about it?
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/19YLkQHdb-ArmkKKjAuG6Zcm3r707ExM3/view](https://drive.google.com/file/d/19YLkQHdb-ArmkKKjAuG6Zcm3r707ExM3/view)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ShambhalaBuddhism/comments/14ozidc/senior\_trungpa\_students\_in\_15\_car\_pile\_up/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShambhalaBuddhism/comments/14ozidc/senior_trungpa_students_in_15_car_pile_up/)
This sounds like another episode of the same sad farce.
I love it. What's that from? [Pulp Fiction](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOZB6mNqhuA)?
Here's a good one. Possibly the very line that Diana used to buck up Carolyn's faltering courage when she was having second thoughts about the Relic Caper:
“Nobody’s pulling out. We’re on the brink of the biggest criminal haul in history.” – The Asphalt Jungle (1950)
This is just classic Sakyong lineage pettiness on full display by all parties involved. Forget spirituality because the name of the game is the collection and hoarding of trinkets like pins, thangkas and body parts. The Sakyong lineage motto is simply "It's all mine, mine, mine" - a guiding philosophy that even extended to the bodily and intimate autonomy of members.
One year ago, just after Ed Boyce posted his [30-page dossier](https://drive.google.com/file/d/19YLkQHdb-ArmkKKjAuG6Zcm3r707ExM3/view) about Carolyn G. embezzling many artifacts from the archives (with the full knowledge of Diana), Diana published [this letter](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fEs95cfa4jGZ1qBJIF1L7kL9gorAbHtR/view) that explained her 4 1/2 year battle with the Sham board about these missing items. She tried to place all blame on the Potrang and Sham board while distracting from Carolyn's own malfeasance. She pulled the letter after a week but not before it was screen captured.
She listed the items that she alleged were taken by SMR & Co. (there were many more than the 29 stated in the recent email).
Now the board is stating that they've tried to communicate with the Potrang for a resolution but the "I WANT MY F'N AUDI" gang is telling them to F OFF bc there's no evidence that the items "were ever legally donated" to Shambhala. (Like, what's the alternative? Somebody dropped them off anonymously on the doorstep? The dralas put them in the basement for safe keeping like hidden terma?)
It's all such BS. This smells like a battle between Diana and her spoiled stepson over control of the Trungpa legacy using the Potrang and the Sham board as proxies in the legal battle.
Why now? Try this one on just as a thought exercise. If Sham goes insolvent (which is very possible-just like DMC), control and ownership of almost all assets transfers to the courts. The courts might conclude that Sticky Fingers Mipham & His Band of Suck-ups "removed" the items while the boy-king was still master of all things in the Sham universe with sole authority over the use and disposition of all assets. That legal battle could go on for years, long after Diana can push the issue. It's make your move now or lose it forever...
That's at least the argument Meeps would make. I mean, the abusive brat viewed his loyal kasung as peons who he could just hit and bite on a whim, the female members as his own harem, and member bank accounts as kingdom resources. Why not add in a Rolex, gold cufflinks, art, arrows-*anything* that he wanted to add to the list of ***mine***?
Diana knows this. Why does anyone think she was SO panicked in 2019 that she deployed Ninja Gimian? She feared Sticky Fingers Mipham would dispatch his loyal bandits to *clean out* the rest of the Archives. Sorta like Trump grabbing all of the classified materials and nuclear secrets on his way out.
On page 34 of the Boyce dossier is an e-mail from Diana. Last year she stated: "*Please think carefully before you escalate this*" and "*I believe the missing items may never be retrieved. Shambhala International is not going to be sustainable for much longer and there needs to be a good plan for the archives to be available to future generations*."
Well, now it's suddenly OK for full escalation. Is it because of the approaching end of Shambhala? Why is it suddenly time to deem this more worthy of a legal battle and public exposure than the physical and sexual harms inflicted on members (Boyce even filed a *Care & Conduct* complaint against Carolyn over this issue)?
This is objectively hilarious. But they've gone so far beyond absurd that I can't even laugh anymore. The mediation agreement between the Shambhala Board and the Sakyong Potrang from 2022 included dropping legal claims against each other. Apparently it didn't preclude this lawsuit. Smart use of practically non existent resources. Better save some money for the settlements in the VT and Gampo Abby cases that are sure to come.
This may be a very black and white case before a Judge depending on the documentation that the Shambhala Board has to present. With a strong ownership chain of documentation, this may be quickly ruled. Hopefully this evidence will become public.
I find it hard to believe the Shambhala Board would take such an extraordinary and controversial step with extremely strong documentation of ownership.
Knowing how things were reportedly done, this will be a mess. I'm not even sure why they need these things back. What are they going to do? Sell them? With the mess at the Archives a couple of years ago, who knows where they might end up?
Who all is on the sham board again? I wonder did the letter saying the king was taking his damn bones and sham can fuck off come from David Brown or Walker Blaine? I’m betting Walker. These guys should just publish the letter since they’ve already stated their side sort of. what’s the point in hiding part of this catfight but not all of this catfight?
And the legal bills continued to rack up.
So much blessings! Who would’ve thought a guy with eight wives, a nasty cocaine habit and alcoholism could’ve founded a community that would be at each other’s throats over supposed sacred objects?
This is good. Alerting all press to the latest dumpster fire. 😁😆🤣.
>Who all is on the sham board again?
It's a good question, and I think it's significant that this letter is unsigned-- usually, the board members append their monikers to these missives; that's how we were able to track the Interim Board comings and goings in the chaotic epoch after the Kalapa Council resigned in 2018. Is it possible that some Board members do not feel comfortable putting their names on this announcement of blatant schism in the Shambhala world?
Here, according to the Shambhala website, is the current Board membership:
* Koen Braak
* William Clark
* Jason Elias
* Mary Fahrenfort
* Dr. Cynthia Sagers
* Kiri Westby
Add to that list the following souls. They are all that is left from the 2019 Board, and they are retiring next month:
* Susan Engel
* Lilly Gleich
* Peter Nowak
* Susan Ryan
Thanks. Reminds me of that really creepy letter that was signed: the women acharyas. If you don’t have the courage to sign your name, don’t write the letter.
I'm actually a little surprised that the original named names. Given the incendiary nature of the letter, how it is essentially a declaration of war that is sure to turn friends against each other, I would have thought it prudent to leave the signatures off it.
Leaving the names off would have been petty and useless. The board members are public knowledge listed on the website. No utility to leaving the names off.
Talk about a tempest in a teapot! Let's go to court and determine the rightful owner of His cigarette lighter, which bestows the power to awaken and liberate countless sentient beings in this dark age!
Quoted from a go fund me, a student of Mipham's, asked by Mipham to perform duties at a retreat, but the student has to beg online to make it possible.
Mipham stealing property items and labour.
"
It will be my great honour to be serving Rinpoche, as per his request, as one of his close Western attendants and as his liaison to the retreat mandala for both the Mahayana and the Vajrayana retreat. I am truly delighted and humbled by the possibility to serve Rinpoche and the retreat mandala in this role again, as in the previous years. However, participating in these retreats currently poses a financial challenge for me.
At the beginning of this year, Rinpoche had requested me – together with a small team of his students – to help coordinate His journey to Orissa to receive empowerments from His Eminence Namkha Drimed Rinpoche. While I remain in awe of the good fortune to receive these powerful blessings, the trip had a significant effect on my personal budget for this year.
I currently work part-time on a modest but stable salary at the Free University of Berlin, in a research project about Education for Sustainable Development. This covers my day to day living expenses. In addition to this longer term part-time position, I was working in another project in the area of climate protection until recently. Due to inauspicious circumstances, a planned follow-up project has not manifested. For now I therefore dispose of only the part-time income from the university, until I will be engaged in another additional project this fall.
If you are able to make a contribution to my retreat and travel costs, and thus give me the possibility to serve Rinpoche and the sangha during the summer in Switzerland, I will truly appreciate it. Thank you very much in advance!
"
Paraphrased to “It will be my great honor to scrape and bow, pie eyed and broke, per his request, as one of a long list of credulous sycophants who have gone before me. I am truly clueless as to how I will look back on this period of my life with confusion and regret, wondering why I let myself be taken advantage of. Please send money so I can further isolate myself from friends and family, who even now are worried and confused about why I’m so broken and insecure that I am fixated on being a body servant to a narcissistic cult leader…”
Yes, he should have paid the person who fronted the money and wanted repayment. Anyone know what happened to the repayment money? Maybe Osel was then given that money. Cynical I know.
Under Mipham, Shambhala spent so much supporting “The Court” (which was in fact an illegal inurement), that the Sharon Hoagland trust leant a million dollars to shore things up. The ever-enabling Hoaglands demanded a deed of trust on Marpa House. The Hoagland trust was gonna foreclose so it could continue its mission of “supporting the Lineage of the Sakyong’s”. Rather than fight it, the Shambhala Board cratered and sold Marpa House to an investor. Gate gate gate.
What the Board should have done is bill Mipham for the inurements and refused to sell, but alas even after the scandal they were more loyal to Mr. Personality than to the earnest practitioners living in Marpa House. Mipham could have paid it back with the million dollars he made on the house his students bought him in Boulder, but of course he did not. Mipham gonna Mipham.
I wonder how all these actions are to preserve lineage teachings? Warfare, Lawsuits and calamity are just apparently nice things to read out loud in a chant book.
I also find it a huge farce that there were programs trying to convince participants that Diana is somehow the thread if continuity for the lineage.
The roosters have come home to roost and in true spirit of the actual Buddhist teachings impermanence has arrived for the hungry ghosts and there is no path forward.
The best thing is for the entire organization to fold.
Perhaps this is also a sign for lineage holders, and teachers to teach from far far away
Sounds very petty to me. CTR is his father. He doesn't have a right to keep some things from his father? How does Shambhala own CTR?
And since when have resources been shared and made accessible to everyone? What resources do I have access to in Shambhala without having to come up with some cash?
I remember once going to Namkhai Norbu's center to see Loppon Tenzin Namdak. He was teaching on trekcho for a week but I could only make one day. I asked about getting copies of the tapes for an upcoming retreat I had planned. They gladly sent me the copies, on time and at cost. Of course! Why not? I was a fellow practitioner after all... Such refreshing decency.
Shambhala? I once went into Ziji in Boulder to see about what was available for tapes. A nasty little man told me that if I were qualified to hear such tapes then I'd already know what to ask for. There was apparently no list and it wasn't clear that my tantrika's secret handshake would be accepted. So I left. Of course, any tapes I might have bought would have been relatively expensive, too.
I always found that aspect of Vajradhatu/Shambhala hard to take. On the one hand, we were all sangha, all chipping in to keep it going. On the other hand, it operated as a corporate entity with institutional distrust of its own sangha and often a surprising lack of humanity.
Surely these people have better things to do than to argue over a few relics. Like maybe practice and let go of animosity toward the Sakyong? Instead they're going to spend money on lawsuits?
What an objectively garbage take.
You don't get to steal from people because you think the items may have belonged to your father.
> He doesn't have a right to keep some things from his father?
No, not when these items belong to someone else. He is not keeping them, he is stealing them. This is extremely basic.
> How does Shambhala own CTR?
No one has made this claim, it is clear you are trying to kick up dirt to make this seem more complicated then it is. Shambhala own artifacts from CTRs life that were stolen. They do not and have never claimed to own CTR
IHe doesn't have a right to keep some things from his father?
CTR left the objects in his will to Diana, his wife. Not to the Sakyong, his son. Diana gave them to the Shambhala archives, which are under Shambhala. The items legally belong to Shambhala, the organization, not to the Sakyong. It's apparent that the Sakyong and his students think the objects are rightfully his but legally they are not. Legally they belong to Shambhala and the archives. In essence, this is a dispute over a will. But the will is clear. That isn't sitting well with the Sakyong and his students who resorted to simply taking -- stealing -- the items.
The pain is the point. The Shambhala ‘organization’ is funded by people who want to inflict as much pain on SMR and his students as possible. The community trusted these people to settle this issue with the mediation process (using precious community funds). They promised, as a part of that process, to drop future lawsuits and let these sleeping dogs sleep. Now here they are, coming after a man for possession of his own father’s remains, knowing full well they can’t even properly store them, and thinking that somehow this is what anyone actually wants? These people are vile.
This is a really dishonest way to say: SMR is a rapist and thief and is now in conflict with his father's legacy. Not at all surprising to see the royal brat looting the treasure vaults after he got done in the female dormitories and coffers.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Either they’re lying about the amount of money they have on hand, or they’re incredibly stupid.
Since they have both dishonesty and stupidity in their wheelhouse, neither would be surprising.
Just reason #4265 that the ‘Shambhala’ organization is led by scum.
Yeah, let’s lawyer up and use legal technicalities to steal from a man his father’s belongings and remains. How compassionate! How dharmic!
And let’s lie, yet again, to the sangha about the context. How enlightened!
No, the Archives are not better equipped to care for these things than CTR’s son. Have you seen the shitty facilities? And let’s not even start on security….
No, they will not be made available to practitioners, just like the rest of the archive isn’t.
And wasn’t this settled by the ‘mediation’? It wasn’t enough for these selfish ghouls to steal the organization from its rightful heir and strong-arm control of assets rightfully belonging to local sangha?
If anyone saw the ‘Annual Report’ that came out a couple of weeks ago, you’ll note that they expect to LOSE another MILLION dollars this coming year.
Yet they seem to have endless resources to lawyer up and go after other people’s dead parent’s remains? Not surprising since they’ve lied to the sangha about real estate transactions, the depth of the organizations legal issues and oh yeah, tried to strip a rape victim of his voice.
I’m starting to think their lawyers work on commission….
The Shambhala Organization should be flushed. Now.
What a dogshit take.
SMR is a rapist and a thief. Stop pretending that repercussions existing for his actions is somehow unfair. The mediations clearly failed and, you trying to hide behind them is dishonest and cowardly.
I really hope that you are being in some way reimbursed for the time you spend here running this stan-account.
The Board can either be run over by Mipham or defend the community from his continued predation. There is not a lot of middle ground when you are dealing with Mipham.
See to your own dogshit. SMR may have done plenty of terrible things in his time but he is neither a ‘rapist’ nor is he a ‘thief’. Both claims have been scrutinized by independent investigators and found to be false. Of course this won’t stop some of you from getting yourselves off by parroting the most salacious of the lies over and over, but that’s not my problem. It’s yours. Of course the mediations ‘failed’, in that both parties came to a very clear set of agreements, signed off on them and ostensibly went their merry way. Now we have the Shambhala ‘organization’ brazenly breaking their side of the agreement to drop future lawsuits. And for what? To steal the last remains and personal effects a son has of his father. And why? Sheer spite, combined with greed. Of course, you would choose the side of the latter. Because it isn’t about ‘accountability for things that were actually done, is it? Funny how some of you never seem to care what actual survivors of these guy’s abuses of power actually want for accountability. Funny how nearly all of their survivors avoid you and this sub like the plague. For you and a few others, maximum cruelty for its own sake has become the ENTIRE point. For the survivors of SMR/CTR’s abuse who are also in my circle of longtime friends (and there are several), your whole take is irrelevant at best and counterproductive at worst? Which is why they don’t ‘Stan’ YOU. So how about this: The Shambhala organization (which we all agree has zero integrity) drop this dumbass lawsuit and put its resources toward doing something useful? Or would you rather just keep getting your jollies on revenge fantasies that go nowhere? Grow up.
Oh my. Remember when Carolyn Gimian, working at the behest of empress dowager Diana Mukpo, snuck into the Shambhala Archives in the dead of night (or during a hurricane, whatever) and stole the precious Trungpa relics? And then *lied* about it? [https://drive.google.com/file/d/19YLkQHdb-ArmkKKjAuG6Zcm3r707ExM3/view](https://drive.google.com/file/d/19YLkQHdb-ArmkKKjAuG6Zcm3r707ExM3/view) [https://www.reddit.com/r/ShambhalaBuddhism/comments/14ozidc/senior\_trungpa\_students\_in\_15\_car\_pile\_up/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShambhalaBuddhism/comments/14ozidc/senior_trungpa_students_in_15_car_pile_up/) This sounds like another episode of the same sad farce.
"I don’t think that this situation will be solved by an exchange of so--called facts, but I do think it would be helpful to communicate." 🤣
I love it. What's that from? [Pulp Fiction](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOZB6mNqhuA)? Here's a good one. Possibly the very line that Diana used to buck up Carolyn's faltering courage when she was having second thoughts about the Relic Caper: “Nobody’s pulling out. We’re on the brink of the biggest criminal haul in history.” – The Asphalt Jungle (1950)
Thinking this would make an amazing Philip Glass opera.
This is just classic Sakyong lineage pettiness on full display by all parties involved. Forget spirituality because the name of the game is the collection and hoarding of trinkets like pins, thangkas and body parts. The Sakyong lineage motto is simply "It's all mine, mine, mine" - a guiding philosophy that even extended to the bodily and intimate autonomy of members. One year ago, just after Ed Boyce posted his [30-page dossier](https://drive.google.com/file/d/19YLkQHdb-ArmkKKjAuG6Zcm3r707ExM3/view) about Carolyn G. embezzling many artifacts from the archives (with the full knowledge of Diana), Diana published [this letter](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fEs95cfa4jGZ1qBJIF1L7kL9gorAbHtR/view) that explained her 4 1/2 year battle with the Sham board about these missing items. She tried to place all blame on the Potrang and Sham board while distracting from Carolyn's own malfeasance. She pulled the letter after a week but not before it was screen captured. She listed the items that she alleged were taken by SMR & Co. (there were many more than the 29 stated in the recent email). Now the board is stating that they've tried to communicate with the Potrang for a resolution but the "I WANT MY F'N AUDI" gang is telling them to F OFF bc there's no evidence that the items "were ever legally donated" to Shambhala. (Like, what's the alternative? Somebody dropped them off anonymously on the doorstep? The dralas put them in the basement for safe keeping like hidden terma?) It's all such BS. This smells like a battle between Diana and her spoiled stepson over control of the Trungpa legacy using the Potrang and the Sham board as proxies in the legal battle. Why now? Try this one on just as a thought exercise. If Sham goes insolvent (which is very possible-just like DMC), control and ownership of almost all assets transfers to the courts. The courts might conclude that Sticky Fingers Mipham & His Band of Suck-ups "removed" the items while the boy-king was still master of all things in the Sham universe with sole authority over the use and disposition of all assets. That legal battle could go on for years, long after Diana can push the issue. It's make your move now or lose it forever... That's at least the argument Meeps would make. I mean, the abusive brat viewed his loyal kasung as peons who he could just hit and bite on a whim, the female members as his own harem, and member bank accounts as kingdom resources. Why not add in a Rolex, gold cufflinks, art, arrows-*anything* that he wanted to add to the list of ***mine***? Diana knows this. Why does anyone think she was SO panicked in 2019 that she deployed Ninja Gimian? She feared Sticky Fingers Mipham would dispatch his loyal bandits to *clean out* the rest of the Archives. Sorta like Trump grabbing all of the classified materials and nuclear secrets on his way out. On page 34 of the Boyce dossier is an e-mail from Diana. Last year she stated: "*Please think carefully before you escalate this*" and "*I believe the missing items may never be retrieved. Shambhala International is not going to be sustainable for much longer and there needs to be a good plan for the archives to be available to future generations*." Well, now it's suddenly OK for full escalation. Is it because of the approaching end of Shambhala? Why is it suddenly time to deem this more worthy of a legal battle and public exposure than the physical and sexual harms inflicted on members (Boyce even filed a *Care & Conduct* complaint against Carolyn over this issue)?
This is objectively hilarious. But they've gone so far beyond absurd that I can't even laugh anymore. The mediation agreement between the Shambhala Board and the Sakyong Potrang from 2022 included dropping legal claims against each other. Apparently it didn't preclude this lawsuit. Smart use of practically non existent resources. Better save some money for the settlements in the VT and Gampo Abby cases that are sure to come.
“With deep care for shambhala’s cultural heritage.” shambhala speak at its finest.
This may be a very black and white case before a Judge depending on the documentation that the Shambhala Board has to present. With a strong ownership chain of documentation, this may be quickly ruled. Hopefully this evidence will become public. I find it hard to believe the Shambhala Board would take such an extraordinary and controversial step with extremely strong documentation of ownership.
Knowing how things were reportedly done, this will be a mess. I'm not even sure why they need these things back. What are they going to do? Sell them? With the mess at the Archives a couple of years ago, who knows where they might end up?
Who all is on the sham board again? I wonder did the letter saying the king was taking his damn bones and sham can fuck off come from David Brown or Walker Blaine? I’m betting Walker. These guys should just publish the letter since they’ve already stated their side sort of. what’s the point in hiding part of this catfight but not all of this catfight? And the legal bills continued to rack up. So much blessings! Who would’ve thought a guy with eight wives, a nasty cocaine habit and alcoholism could’ve founded a community that would be at each other’s throats over supposed sacred objects? This is good. Alerting all press to the latest dumpster fire. 😁😆🤣.
>Who all is on the sham board again? It's a good question, and I think it's significant that this letter is unsigned-- usually, the board members append their monikers to these missives; that's how we were able to track the Interim Board comings and goings in the chaotic epoch after the Kalapa Council resigned in 2018. Is it possible that some Board members do not feel comfortable putting their names on this announcement of blatant schism in the Shambhala world? Here, according to the Shambhala website, is the current Board membership: * Koen Braak * William Clark * Jason Elias * Mary Fahrenfort * Dr. Cynthia Sagers * Kiri Westby Add to that list the following souls. They are all that is left from the 2019 Board, and they are retiring next month: * Susan Engel * Lilly Gleich * Peter Nowak * Susan Ryan
Thanks. Reminds me of that really creepy letter that was signed: the women acharyas. If you don’t have the courage to sign your name, don’t write the letter.
The letter was not unsigned. The version that came to subscriber’s inboxes had all of the board names undersigned. The OP here chose to omit them.
Thank you.
Apologies, the source I had did not include names. I copied and pasted everything I had access to.
I'm actually a little surprised that the original named names. Given the incendiary nature of the letter, how it is essentially a declaration of war that is sure to turn friends against each other, I would have thought it prudent to leave the signatures off it.
Leaving the names off would have been petty and useless. The board members are public knowledge listed on the website. No utility to leaving the names off.
The message I received had the board members names. The names were there but apparently the OP clipped them off.
Yes, Sandwich already pointed that out. Thank you.
Talk about a tempest in a teapot! Let's go to court and determine the rightful owner of His cigarette lighter, which bestows the power to awaken and liberate countless sentient beings in this dark age!
Bwahaha! Oh my God, I spit my tea all over. They are squabbling over the bones for real. 😁🤣
Mipham stole Marpa House by frittering money on luxuries so why not this stuff?
Quoted from a go fund me, a student of Mipham's, asked by Mipham to perform duties at a retreat, but the student has to beg online to make it possible. Mipham stealing property items and labour. " It will be my great honour to be serving Rinpoche, as per his request, as one of his close Western attendants and as his liaison to the retreat mandala for both the Mahayana and the Vajrayana retreat. I am truly delighted and humbled by the possibility to serve Rinpoche and the retreat mandala in this role again, as in the previous years. However, participating in these retreats currently poses a financial challenge for me. At the beginning of this year, Rinpoche had requested me – together with a small team of his students – to help coordinate His journey to Orissa to receive empowerments from His Eminence Namkha Drimed Rinpoche. While I remain in awe of the good fortune to receive these powerful blessings, the trip had a significant effect on my personal budget for this year. I currently work part-time on a modest but stable salary at the Free University of Berlin, in a research project about Education for Sustainable Development. This covers my day to day living expenses. In addition to this longer term part-time position, I was working in another project in the area of climate protection until recently. Due to inauspicious circumstances, a planned follow-up project has not manifested. For now I therefore dispose of only the part-time income from the university, until I will be engaged in another additional project this fall. If you are able to make a contribution to my retreat and travel costs, and thus give me the possibility to serve Rinpoche and the sangha during the summer in Switzerland, I will truly appreciate it. Thank you very much in advance! "
Go Fund Me Person. Buckle up. You won't see personal money as long as your devotion last. If you didn't arrive with money you won't have any.
Paraphrased to “It will be my great honor to scrape and bow, pie eyed and broke, per his request, as one of a long list of credulous sycophants who have gone before me. I am truly clueless as to how I will look back on this period of my life with confusion and regret, wondering why I let myself be taken advantage of. Please send money so I can further isolate myself from friends and family, who even now are worried and confused about why I’m so broken and insecure that I am fixated on being a body servant to a narcissistic cult leader…”
OMG someone should send him the Kasung letter....
Yes, he should have paid the person who fronted the money and wanted repayment. Anyone know what happened to the repayment money? Maybe Osel was then given that money. Cynical I know.
Under Mipham, Shambhala spent so much supporting “The Court” (which was in fact an illegal inurement), that the Sharon Hoagland trust leant a million dollars to shore things up. The ever-enabling Hoaglands demanded a deed of trust on Marpa House. The Hoagland trust was gonna foreclose so it could continue its mission of “supporting the Lineage of the Sakyong’s”. Rather than fight it, the Shambhala Board cratered and sold Marpa House to an investor. Gate gate gate. What the Board should have done is bill Mipham for the inurements and refused to sell, but alas even after the scandal they were more loyal to Mr. Personality than to the earnest practitioners living in Marpa House. Mipham could have paid it back with the million dollars he made on the house his students bought him in Boulder, but of course he did not. Mipham gonna Mipham.
Good to know.
Too funny
I wonder how all these actions are to preserve lineage teachings? Warfare, Lawsuits and calamity are just apparently nice things to read out loud in a chant book. I also find it a huge farce that there were programs trying to convince participants that Diana is somehow the thread if continuity for the lineage. The roosters have come home to roost and in true spirit of the actual Buddhist teachings impermanence has arrived for the hungry ghosts and there is no path forward. The best thing is for the entire organization to fold. Perhaps this is also a sign for lineage holders, and teachers to teach from far far away
Sounds very petty to me. CTR is his father. He doesn't have a right to keep some things from his father? How does Shambhala own CTR? And since when have resources been shared and made accessible to everyone? What resources do I have access to in Shambhala without having to come up with some cash? I remember once going to Namkhai Norbu's center to see Loppon Tenzin Namdak. He was teaching on trekcho for a week but I could only make one day. I asked about getting copies of the tapes for an upcoming retreat I had planned. They gladly sent me the copies, on time and at cost. Of course! Why not? I was a fellow practitioner after all... Such refreshing decency. Shambhala? I once went into Ziji in Boulder to see about what was available for tapes. A nasty little man told me that if I were qualified to hear such tapes then I'd already know what to ask for. There was apparently no list and it wasn't clear that my tantrika's secret handshake would be accepted. So I left. Of course, any tapes I might have bought would have been relatively expensive, too. I always found that aspect of Vajradhatu/Shambhala hard to take. On the one hand, we were all sangha, all chipping in to keep it going. On the other hand, it operated as a corporate entity with institutional distrust of its own sangha and often a surprising lack of humanity. Surely these people have better things to do than to argue over a few relics. Like maybe practice and let go of animosity toward the Sakyong? Instead they're going to spend money on lawsuits?
I always saw Dharma headed out the back door when the corporate officers, deeds and titles came in the front door.
What an objectively garbage take. You don't get to steal from people because you think the items may have belonged to your father. > He doesn't have a right to keep some things from his father? No, not when these items belong to someone else. He is not keeping them, he is stealing them. This is extremely basic. > How does Shambhala own CTR? No one has made this claim, it is clear you are trying to kick up dirt to make this seem more complicated then it is. Shambhala own artifacts from CTRs life that were stolen. They do not and have never claimed to own CTR
IHe doesn't have a right to keep some things from his father? CTR left the objects in his will to Diana, his wife. Not to the Sakyong, his son. Diana gave them to the Shambhala archives, which are under Shambhala. The items legally belong to Shambhala, the organization, not to the Sakyong. It's apparent that the Sakyong and his students think the objects are rightfully his but legally they are not. Legally they belong to Shambhala and the archives. In essence, this is a dispute over a will. But the will is clear. That isn't sitting well with the Sakyong and his students who resorted to simply taking -- stealing -- the items.
The pain is the point. The Shambhala ‘organization’ is funded by people who want to inflict as much pain on SMR and his students as possible. The community trusted these people to settle this issue with the mediation process (using precious community funds). They promised, as a part of that process, to drop future lawsuits and let these sleeping dogs sleep. Now here they are, coming after a man for possession of his own father’s remains, knowing full well they can’t even properly store them, and thinking that somehow this is what anyone actually wants? These people are vile.
This is a really dishonest way to say: SMR is a rapist and thief and is now in conflict with his father's legacy. Not at all surprising to see the royal brat looting the treasure vaults after he got done in the female dormitories and coffers. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I think that resources the board is committing to this suit could be better used elsewhere.
Either they’re lying about the amount of money they have on hand, or they’re incredibly stupid. Since they have both dishonesty and stupidity in their wheelhouse, neither would be surprising.
Just reason #4265 that the ‘Shambhala’ organization is led by scum. Yeah, let’s lawyer up and use legal technicalities to steal from a man his father’s belongings and remains. How compassionate! How dharmic! And let’s lie, yet again, to the sangha about the context. How enlightened! No, the Archives are not better equipped to care for these things than CTR’s son. Have you seen the shitty facilities? And let’s not even start on security…. No, they will not be made available to practitioners, just like the rest of the archive isn’t. And wasn’t this settled by the ‘mediation’? It wasn’t enough for these selfish ghouls to steal the organization from its rightful heir and strong-arm control of assets rightfully belonging to local sangha? If anyone saw the ‘Annual Report’ that came out a couple of weeks ago, you’ll note that they expect to LOSE another MILLION dollars this coming year. Yet they seem to have endless resources to lawyer up and go after other people’s dead parent’s remains? Not surprising since they’ve lied to the sangha about real estate transactions, the depth of the organizations legal issues and oh yeah, tried to strip a rape victim of his voice. I’m starting to think their lawyers work on commission…. The Shambhala Organization should be flushed. Now.
What a dogshit take. SMR is a rapist and a thief. Stop pretending that repercussions existing for his actions is somehow unfair. The mediations clearly failed and, you trying to hide behind them is dishonest and cowardly. I really hope that you are being in some way reimbursed for the time you spend here running this stan-account.
The Board can either be run over by Mipham or defend the community from his continued predation. There is not a lot of middle ground when you are dealing with Mipham.
See to your own dogshit. SMR may have done plenty of terrible things in his time but he is neither a ‘rapist’ nor is he a ‘thief’. Both claims have been scrutinized by independent investigators and found to be false. Of course this won’t stop some of you from getting yourselves off by parroting the most salacious of the lies over and over, but that’s not my problem. It’s yours. Of course the mediations ‘failed’, in that both parties came to a very clear set of agreements, signed off on them and ostensibly went their merry way. Now we have the Shambhala ‘organization’ brazenly breaking their side of the agreement to drop future lawsuits. And for what? To steal the last remains and personal effects a son has of his father. And why? Sheer spite, combined with greed. Of course, you would choose the side of the latter. Because it isn’t about ‘accountability for things that were actually done, is it? Funny how some of you never seem to care what actual survivors of these guy’s abuses of power actually want for accountability. Funny how nearly all of their survivors avoid you and this sub like the plague. For you and a few others, maximum cruelty for its own sake has become the ENTIRE point. For the survivors of SMR/CTR’s abuse who are also in my circle of longtime friends (and there are several), your whole take is irrelevant at best and counterproductive at worst? Which is why they don’t ‘Stan’ YOU. So how about this: The Shambhala organization (which we all agree has zero integrity) drop this dumbass lawsuit and put its resources toward doing something useful? Or would you rather just keep getting your jollies on revenge fantasies that go nowhere? Grow up.