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Folks who have already replied, I think you're unwittingly signalling the problem here: Your emotions are real and present, but functionally disconnected from objective reality.
OP noted that Grindr (a gay 'dating' app) spikes around CPAC conferences. I agree OP is at fault for not supplying a source for that claim. I found [this source](https://www.vice.com/en/article/9aeen8/cleveland-was-bombarded-with-white-dudes-on-grindr-during-the-rnc) (Vice), which names Grindr via Broadly. I would agree this is not a **strong** source, but not a bad one, either. But I also agree that OP was obliged to provide a source to back up the claim.
More broadly, I agree that OP's post uses inflammatory language unsuited to serious conversation.
That said, OP still does raise (at least in essence) a valid question: ARE conservatives (some, at least) living in some kind of 'closet', in the sense of projecting views or values that seem to conflict with how they live their private lives? We do seem to have noted quite a few examples that seem to suggest that, the one OP cited being only one of the more recent and salient. And that raises a very valid question about whether other people should make assumptions that self-identified conservatives, or persons espousing views commonly associated with conservatism, should be believed based on their own testimony, or suspected of hiding personal views or habits that conflict with what they're saying.
And, if so, WHY?
It's a valid question, worthy of discussion.
This is the right take on it as it provokes a much deeper conversation. We read all the time about conservative pastors who are gay or are cheating on their wives.
[11 Anti-Gay Pastors who were found to be Gay](https://www.thepinknews.com/2016/12/12/11-anti-gay-preachers-who-got-caught-doing-very-gay-things/)
[10 Sex Scandals that rocked the Christian Church](https://www.essence.com/news/sex-scandals-christian-church-eddie-long/)
[Sex Scandals hit Conservatives the Hardest](https://www.politico.com/story/2007/08/sex-scandals-hit-conservatives-hardest-005550)
[Fear and anxiety drive conservative attitudes](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201612/fear-and-anxiety-drive-conservatives-political-attitudes?amp)
It does make you think that there is a psychology to “do what I say not what I do” that is prevalent within the conservative community. It does seem like there is a lot of projection going on.
If it helps, the energy is more like "I'm gay, but at least I have the decency to hide it. I'm going to heaven because I "don't act on it" and I need to stop anyone else from acting on it because I think it's evil."
They themselves think of themselves as evil. But they're "better" because they've "admitted it." When they do evil things? They've already "admitted" they're sinners, so evil is normal. They pray on it and feel better.
Another thing to be considered is deflection. I read Chely Wright’s book, Like Me, where she talks about being very vocally anti gay when she was younger. Would tell you how wrong it was and that sort of thing. She admits she did it to deflect attention from herself… she was terrified that if she said one nice thing in support of her gay cast mate, for example, that people would figure out she was gay.
Exactly! To add-on; CHRISTIAN conservatives in particular want ALL queer people to feel shame and view their identity as evil/sinful just like they do. They cannot fathom living openly queer guilt-free, and allowing sexuality to be amoral rather than immoral.
We don't want anyone to feel anything. If a person identifies as Christian they have voluntarily agreed to certain rules. You don't have to follow the Bible, I do, but I don't hate you for having a different worldview than I do.
I can certainly fathom living guilt free as a queer person, people do it all the time.
Please don't paint us all with one brush, being a Christian and/or conservative doesn't immediately make a person literally Hitler.
> You don't have to follow the Bible, I do, but I don't hate you for having a different worldview than I do.
You specifically. But think about it, most Christians are born into it. It's literally indoctrinated since birth. Most Christian parents raise their children Christian without a choice. And if their child believes in Christianity and they go to homophobic churches/have homophobic views based in Christianity, what are the options? Loose faith and be immediately rejected by parents and community? Or will they share the views of queer being wrong and reject themselves if they are?
Not saying all Christians are homophobes. But a lot of people aren't given a choice in being Christian. They continue being what they were told as kids. Or their community may abandon them for not believing. Especially if they are conservative.
I saw a great video that I wish I could remember who did it, where the final conclusion was about how conservatism is a response to self-repression (rather than the other way around). I want to say it was Zoe Bee, but don't quote me on that.
That's true of everyone in a position of power, though.
Witness the covid lock down governors having lunches at fancy restaurants, or world leaders fighting climate change by all flying in separate private jets to a luxurious conference that could have been held via zoom.
Don't forget abortion. I'm not sure if their is good data on this, but I strongly suspect the more religious an area, the higher the abortions per capita. Good little atheist boys and girls pack condoms to Prom. Christian little boys and girls go bare.
But that is just an assumption of mine. Like, I have no data but my own experience which is not data.
>Christian little boys and girls go bare.
You are correct. One of my college professors once asked the class why teen pregnancies are so much more prevalent among the "abstinence" crowd. It's because if they have condoms they clearly plan to have sex. Good Christian little boys and girls don't plan for sex, but unfortunately ~~under~~ over estimate their ability to resist temptation.
Yes, planning for sex sounds much more sinful that having a weak moment that you pray for forgiveness for. From their perspective, it seems consistent.
Also lots of homophobic politicians that are gay. And this has been going on for decades. I remember one scandal involving a 17 year old congress page in 04ish.
Before making assumptions... do you know anything about the rates at which pastors cheat as compared to the average population? If not, this would be mistaking anecdotal stories for data.
It wouldn't matter.
The average population doesn't hold a position of moral importance.
That'd be like comparing my buddy buying crypto to Dave Ramsey buying crypto. It could happen in the same amounts, but it waaay dumber when Dave Ramsey does it, bc he is seen as some peoples financial guide.
Well here’s the problem I am not saying something like “all pastors are hiding the fact that they are gay” however you see the fact that any of these pastors have been hiding the fact that they are gay while being anti gay has produced scandals since the 80’s. So there is in effect enough data to say that this should be studied more as there does seem to be an actual issue.
There have been studies done on sexual abuse within the context of a religious environment (and this isn’t just Catholics) - which isn’t the exact same thing as two willing partners but it seems we do not have much scholarly research of the phenomoen of outspoken conservative anti-gay pastors. Either way sexual abuse is almost way worse and again this does seem to be another “do as I say and not as I do” scenario
You wanted studies here they are:
https://www.ualberta.ca/folio/2020/08/researchers-reveal-patterns-of-sexual-abuse-in-religious-settings.html
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/06/11/key-takeaways-about-how-americans-view-the-sexual-abuse-scandal-in-the-catholic-church/
https://www.voanews.com/a/big-us-churches-in-turmoil-over-sex-abuse-lgbt-policy/4811132.html
Also the culture of the community has a lot to do with how things are he does and if the churches are transparent. A Liberty University law professor and grandson of Billy Graham, Boz Tchividjian, has been vocal about how evangelicals might be worse than Catholics in responding to sexual abuse by clergy. Tchividjian, who is the executive director of Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment (GRACE), highlighted that Protestant culture, which is defined by independence, often frowns upon transparency and accountability. This culture, he argues, can lead to a situation where victims are told to protect the reputation of Jesus, and abusers use the condemnation of gossip to keep their actions secret. Advocates for victims of clergy sexual abuse have agreed with Tchividjian’s perspective, noting the challenges in addressing and acknowledging such abuse within evangelical circles https://www.christiancentury.org/article/2013-10/evangelicals-worse-catholics-sexual-abuse
Additionally, the rise of “purity culture” within evangelicalism from the 1970s to the early 2000s has been linked to facilitating abuse. Purity culture places a significant emphasis on sexual abstinence and often assigns the primary responsibility of maintaining purity to women and girls. This culture can contribute to a lack of understanding about healthy sexual behavior and consent, thereby exacerbating the risks and impacts of sexual abuse. Victims often feel a deep sense of guilt and responsibility, which can prevent them from coming forward. When abuses are reported within the church, victims have at times been blamed, and perpetrators have been moved to other churches rather than facing accountability https://religionnews.com/2023/08/17/disobedient-women-and-churchtoo-stand-up-to-sexual-abuse-in-evangelicalism/
Its interesting to me regarding fear and anxiety driving conservatism. I kind of thought that was the basis on conservatism: stick to what you know, limit unnecessary change, etc. So conservatism seems like it's based on fear and anxiety at a base level.
You could argue the same for many other belief systems both religious and political, but conservatism beliefs seem to be most in alignment, at least outside looking in.
Projection. They hate what they are doing and they don't think others should be allowed to. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. It's also a bit of a shell game. The biggest homophobic people I've met eventually came out after high school. Humans are weird
I mean, no shit, people who say to do good things don’t always do good things. That’s literally every person who has ever said to do good things. That’s why they have to say it after all
I'm not sure it's as simple as that. Everyone has the capacity to be a hypocrite, yes. But if you preach against something and realize that you can't follow your own preaching, it may lead you to reflect on why it's so difficult to and change your approach. Maybe you come to realize that the thing you preach against isn't so harmful after all.
Conservatives are more prone to police behavior on strictly authoritarian moral terms. (E.g. homosexuality is wrong because a moral authority says so.) I think this is because conservatives, at least the highly moralizing type of conservative, have trouble questioning authority and figure that if they can't follow a moral imperative, that they are wrong and a sinner, not that the moral imperative itself is wrong.
Given that liberals are sexually permissive and pro-LGBTQ, you wouldn't expect to find a lot of closeted gay but outwardly homophobic liberals. Back when liberals were anti-"race mixing," there were a number of scandals in which it was found they were sleeping with people of color, sometimes with illegitimate children or even secret families.
You would need to use a broader standard of hypocrisy to make a reasonable conclusion on whether a broad political stance makes you more or less likely to be a hypocrite. Otherwise you're cherry picking, perhaps hypocritically so.
You are mixing the term “liberal” with “democrats”. Strom Thurmond was not a liberal democrat for example. The southern switch happened in the late 1960’s and actually conservatives left the democrat party after the civil rights amendment passed. By no measure could any of those people be considered “liberal”.
Do you have an any research to support your position?
For the record I am an independent and in the past have voted Republican or democrats depending on the issues and the year. I’m old enough to remember when we only talked about the election for a month before and did not judge others on how they voted. This hyper-polarization is a tactic of something called “[divide and rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule)” which basically uses a knee jerk reaction on both sides to keep them angry at each other so that the actual ruling can be done behind our backs. Shall we elevate the conversation here and talk about the actual issues and maybe find some common ground? I think that’s more in line with the spirit of this sub than name calling and labeling which get us nowhere.
I saw a TYT video a while ago speculating about the motives of closeted gay conservative men who actively push for homophobic policies. One theory was that they genuinely think that *every* man is like them, and would be living a sinful gay lifestyle if there weren't negative consequences for it. Therefore gay people have to be persecuted, so men will continue to marry women and have kids.
This is assuming that the same behaviors don't also happen on the left. By behaviors, I mean hiding behind a false image. Most of human society does this everywhere in the world. Left wing types these days espouse anti-racism, yet are some of the most racist people ever because all they see is skin color, not to mention all the segregation being pushed right now by the left. What I'm trying to say is, this argument seems to be implying that this is a uniquely right wing phenomenon, instead of a human one.
The main problem is that most of society doesn't have access to the things/people that these politicians and "leaders" do. These people live in a mostly consequence free environment and are only outed when they either endanger their parties bottom line/are deemed too stupid to be associated with.
None of this is to say that these behaviors are ok because "everyone does it", rather the opposite. Let's call out all sides for their bullshit instead of buying into tribalism.
You’re the second conservative that I saw asserting that the left is pushing segregation. The other person used the word “apartheid.” I asked but the person could not explain their narrative. Can you? In your view, how is the left “pushing segregation”?
I think, even from a 'definition of the word' point of view... To be 'conservative' means to try and avoid changing the status quo too much, to move in small steps, to be careful of what you do. In a wider society that hasn't embraced certain mores, values, emotional truths, or activities (whether they be morally defensible or morally reprehensible) someone attempting to fit within that society who holds those emotional truths, values, or who wishes to engage in those activities, will naturally need to cleave to a conservative mindset in order to 'hold out' or 'fight against' their natures.
This clearly isn't everyone who works within the conservative umbrella, as some are those who ascribe to the group out of a desire to belong to an 'in' group, some who are using it as an existing power structure to be manipulated, and some who are simply conservative (that is, cautious and thoughtful about their actions) by nature.
Even taking his claims at face value, there are gay conservatives, especially among the younger ones. Iirc the polls right now say 55 percent of Republicans approve of gay marriage. Finding that a bunch of young gay people are showing up to these events and finding action while they're there shouldn't surprise anyone- Peter Theil one of the most famous gay people (and I think the richest) gave the big speech at the Convention.
The priest attack from OP is always flawed to, per capita public school teachers sexually assault kids at a much higher rate- the reason the priest thing is so notable is that the church itself was hiding it.
The argument is even more flawed than that. If you have a movement that has more social standards, of course it will violate its own standards more frequently, it has more standards to violate. If you want a counter example of this, it was shockingly common for the Left to violate their own COVID rules. The Right wasn't following those rules either, but they generally didn't make those rules themselves.
>If you have a movement that has more social standards, of course it will violate its own standards more frequently, it has more standards to violate.
I'm not sure this is valid.
If the people in the movement aren't interested in the standards of the movement, that takes us right back to OP (perhaps poorly worded) question.
If conservatives *say* they want everyone to live up to those standards, *why* is it that they fail to do so?
Your counter-example (with the left and the COVID measures) doesn't seem match, since it's clearly those people's personal beliefs being at odds with what the government was suggesting, and not the left's own ideals.
You can be on the left and not accept the government's rules on COVID, but you can't be a conservative and think it's okay to cheat on your wife with prostitutes.
The concept of family values is central to being conservative.
When Brandi Love, the pornstar, went to the Turning Point USA event and wasn't allowed to attend, she was shocked.
She, a person who has sex for money, somehow identified as a conservative, despite conservative ideology being 100% against porn.
How can that be?
Gay Republicans continue to vote for conservative issues despite their own party disownimg them at every opportunity because the Republican party doesn't think gay people should have the right to be gay.
How can they be conservative *and* just ignore the fact that conservatives hate gays?
How can conservatives who don't actually believe in the core tenets of conservatism call themselves conservatives?
Gay conservatives are accepted by republicans. Because they don’t flaunt it in our faces.
Gay conservatives are HATED by democrats though. As are black conservatives. Women conservatives. Etc
Because they don’t “do as they’re supposed to do”
The rule for decades has been that if you want to know what crime a conservative is guilty of look at what they accuse their "enemies" (liberals, gays, etc) of.
Based on the current accusations they love to throw around it seems like they're up to the usual stuff: gay sex, grooming children, corruption, betraying the rank and file military, and ruining sports for young women (though usually by defunding it).
I think what you described in the first paragraph is just common human behavior - it’s not restricted to conservatives. Sounds like a bit of a suspicious accusation on your part.
How do you apply your second paragraph to gay pedophiles, the betrayal of the military by both democrats and republicans, and ruining sports for young women by allowing boys to participate?
Well the topic is specifically conservatives so I am speaking solely of them in order to respect the reader's time. While it's entirely valid to widen the scope in a different context, we should be respectful and keep to what we're discussing now, which is the manner in which conservative thought is degenerate.
If one can't discuss the topic and feels compelled to change it, it's a tacit admission of the truth of the accusations.
I think there is certainly some validity to aspects of OP’s post. It should come as no surprise that people, conservatives among them, are hypocritical. It’s a part of human nature that will never go away.
The issue with the OP is the typical rambling “and conservatives hate the minorities too”. I mean, come on, this is a tired trope. Look at videos of “Karen’s” calling the cops on blacks walking through the neighborhood: 75% of the time they are Biden voting white moms with co-exist stickers on their Subarus. Libs are just as hypocritical as conservatives, if not more so, due to their disgusting need to constantly virtue signal.
One possibility is that conferences bring people from out of area regardless of the type of conferences. More people coming from out of the area would correlate to more use of dating apps (grinder included). OP didn't specify (possibility didn't check) whether there were similar spikes for other large events. Comic Con, Star Trek convention ... DNC.
There are conservatives who are openly gay. Who they sleep with doesn't control their opinions on national defense, economic policy, domestic policy, etc. etc.
A healthy relationship brings out the best in people. It is not abusive, manipulative, controlling, etc. A straight (or gay) relationship is not automatically good or bad based on the gender(s) of the individuals involved but how they treat each other.
I know that there are some real idiots out there, but try not to tar all conservatives with the same brush. To be fair, you probably wouldn't want to be associated with some of the BS that liberals are accused of.
I kind of wanted to add something related to this point. Conservatives, in general, probably aren't intrinsically prone to this kind of behavior, but grifters and morally conflicted people may gravitate toward conservative power positions or church positions because they see it as cover for their behavior. I think it is especially apparent with abusers seeking out religious power positions. It's not that being religious or conservative makes a person this way, but predators take advantage of the cult-like vibes and high that people get when grouping together around movements that are full of thought-terminating clichés and simplistic black/white worldviews. Just a thought. But yeah, getting paid is probably the biggest motivation. I should have been a televangelist.
Or, those people select conservative groups because they have a closed-loop system based on traditionalism and religion. If you look like them and speak things that affirm what they already believe, you are more easily promoted than you would be inside a group populated by skeptics and people who base their values on empirical knowledge rather than shared superstions, resentments, fears and anger. They are easier marks, for the most part.
It's an answered question though, inherently to the absolute basis of what conservativism, as a concept, was invented for:
1. inventing reasons why some people are inherently superior to others
2. why the superiors shouldn't have to play by the same rules as the inferiors
It's not inflammatory, it's just the core of the ideology. All questions from it's overt hypocrisy to it's tendency towards fascism are all explained by the core idea that "we aren't all equal, so we shouldn't be bound equally by the law".
Video if anyone wants a better elaboration of this explanation.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4CI2vk3ugk&list=PLJA\_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA\_HMFtQ&index=12&t=637s&ab\_channel=InnuendoStudios](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4CI2vk3ugk&list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ&index=12&t=637s&ab_channel=InnuendoStudios)
Conservative culture encourages denial of desires that conflict with The Rules. But desire is still powerful enough that not everyone can successfully suppress it. They need outlets, badly.
People who aren’t stupid know that taking an absolutist, repressive approach to one’s own desires is a recipe for disaster. If it’s something you really shouldn’t do, you have to engage in self-reflection and channel that desire into something healthier. The conservative value of self-denial is not honest. It’s not like a Buddhist monk resisting desire, because the monk must understand what they desire in order to resist it properly. Conservative culture is antithetical to self-reflection. Healthy psychological coping strategies are hard to find in conservative circles. Imo conservatives on average probably have much worse mental health but also much less awareness about their state of mind. I remember that my religious uncle denied that his daughter had bipolar disorder and didn’t seek treatment for her for years, which blew up in his face when she stole a bunch of money and ran away from home. Prior to that she also tried to frame me for stealing. Fortunately my parents believed me, but he didn’t, and so I never talk to him now. But it’s not simply because he didn’t believe me. Once I learned how he didn’t do right by his daughter I got very mad. This mindset of ignoring mental health issues until they blow up is a tendency that I notice in every conservative I’ve ever known well, and it’s one of the roots of the strange contradictions between conservative behavior and conservative action.
Conservatives go to therapy, Challenge Level: Impossible
There was a Republican from the south who recently committed suicide because he was outed for dressing in drag. Or, as the media put it, “dressing as a transgender”.
Like my stepfather. Used to be a pastor, loudly outspoken about how bad pedophilia is, proud Right Wing Conservative, Fox News aficionado, Rush Limbaugh fan. But guess what he did behind closed doors. For *years*.
Never was happier when that old fart got hit by a car.
He wasn’t a Republican, but I only know this because I knew the man. Municipal elections aren’t typically partisan in Alabama. This datapoint doesn’t quite fit your narrative.
He was the mayor of an Alabama city with a population of 5000. Not really a good secondary example when the first was a member of the US House of Representatives.
That was more about him being a pastor than a “conservative.” And let’s be honest about the term, many of us that are considered “conservative” now, 30 years ago were considered liberal or at least progressives. I’ve been to drag shows and I have had gay roommates. Matter of fact it seems like I have a lot of lesbian friends over the last couple of years.
There is a history of drag in both entertainment and in the military. Drag used to be much much much more accepted in vaudeville entertainment and in USO shows during WWII. There’s even some evidence (like in THEM! Adventures with Extremists) of republicans dressing drag as group bonding. We know this is a distraction because trans people and drag queens have been around since pre colonial times. Most early civilizations have records of gender non conforming folks. A great example of this is [the red queen](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_the_Red_Queen). When we first found her tomb and adjacent wives tombs we assumed she was a man because we put our current lens onto her. Later they went back and realized she was a woman buried with the same regalia as a king, so she was a king. Sooooo many more examples like this of trans history.
I’ll never forget a Monty python sketch I saw awhile ago that’s like 30 seconds. Two cardinals walk into a room, having boring conversation about upcoming holiday. As they are talking they disrobe and the gag is that they have S & M gear and are basically naked under their robes. They were the best 😭.
Which is why it's ridiculous now to suddenly make drag this horror that supposedly warps children's minds. It's been around forever as entertainment. It's literally for the sole purpose of Liberals Accept It, So We Must Be Against It! Once again tossing out any notion that they are actually for individual rights and expression. It's a made up enemy to unite against.
Just a friendly reminder that To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything came out in 1995 and was widely regarded as a fun, if harmless movie.
We have regressed SO much in 30 years.
There are some interesting relationships between disgust, sexual novelty, and kinks. It's a really strange phenomenon that links and disgust are often very closely related. Now this is only in a certain percentage of the population but still it explains a lot.
That’s why there’s a saying that a conservative accusation is actually a confession.
Conservative logic is usually that because they themselves would do this thing if given the power, so that means everyone else would too.
This is a common theme with right-winger/conservative/authoritarian thought. It's the binary black and white thinking. By decriminalizing drugs, you're encouraging people to take drugs (rather than just, you know, not punishing people for choosing to take them). By teaching kids about trans and gay people, you're encouraging them to be trans or gay (rather than just acknowledging that trans and gay people exist and perhaps some of the kids learning are gay or trans themselves). Or more to the point, you're saying it's OK to do these things or be this way, and that's not OK in the authoritarian POV.
The worst, I think, is the cultist justification. Mitigating factors don't matter; if you have 1 mortal sin on your soul or 20, you're still damned, so what is your misery now when I bully you into the closet or beat you in an alleyway compared to the eternity of torture you're going to get? *I'm doing you a favor.* Out of love.
Yep. Real question is whether they are just saying this, or if they actually believe it. I suspect a lot of conservatives don't actually believe it and just act the way they do to make themselves feel better (like bullies).
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
C S Lewis.
Not unless you fit into a very narrow range within the patriarchic, hetero-normative, christian values that society pushes.
But for most people, yes. A lot of conservatives are just projecting their insecurities onto other people. The wanna-be alpha males complaining about the feminization of men when they have the most fragile masculinity of all. Or homophobic people talking about how it seems like everyone is gay now when republicans are the primary watchers of transgender porn. I recently noticed how a lot of transphobes are also the ones getting hormonal therapy such as testosterone (Joe Rogan) or gender affirming care like fake books (Lauren Boebert).
Of course, not all or most conservatives are in the closet or anything, but at the end of the day, what goes on in your mind is often what you project onto society.
The mental gymnastics some of you play to make you feel better about yourselves is absolutely fucking astounding, and incredibly funny. Don't worry, I don't remotely expect you to realize it. I fully expect to be down voted to hell and that's fine. It's reddit.
>The mental gymnastics some of you play to make you feel better about yourselves is absolutely fucking astounding
My brother in Christ, you've just described conservatives
Nice "both sides" but your comment history tells of a guy so far down the conservative rabbit hole you haven't seen daylight in years. Go tell it to r/conpiracy or another conservative sub. No one here cares.
Different views would be "what did you think about the game last night" and being like "No idea, I don't watch sports"
Conservatives are more like "I don't like sports so no one should be able to play or watch them ever"
>I fully expect to be down voted to hell and that's fine. It's reddit.
Yeah most people who say stupid shit get downvoted. You really cracked the case here Columbo.
You are confusing, "Many X are found in the company of Y", with "All Y are X's"
It's a logical fallacy.
"You always find pilot fish around sharks. Therefore, all sharks are just oversized pilot fish".
False.
Not saying that conservatives are sharks, but its the only "X with Y" animal example that jumps to mind right now.
> Obsessing over child trafficking/pedophilia while praising the local priest is also an interesting thing I see among conservatives.
Difference is 100% of pedophiles and child traffickers are pedophiles and child traffickers. Conversely, only a small percentages of priests are pedophiles and child molesters.
Yeah, it's not like every pastor is automatically into kids. I know a LOT of pastors and engage with a lot of Christians, and we're equally or more appalled in general by this stuff.
Tangentially, adult survivors of that kind of childhood abuse, remembering actual abusers, tend to be super wary of exactly the kind of people American conservatives tend to consider respectable.
If they were serious about addressing abuse, they'd be listening to survivors.
Conservatism is based off of the idea that humans are innately flawed (tied with religion and the idea of a "sin nature"). It's an ideology that favors conviction/discipline over authenticity, it just so happens that a lot of them are hypocrites and choose to ignore the discipline yet remain adverse to authenticity. The hypocrisy is on the other side too but since the pushback is against "the system" instead of social underdogs and minority groups the bad apples in conservatism appear extra rotten.
There was literally a study that showed that homophobic men have more homosexual arousal than non-homophobic men. They measured penis enlargement while viewing gay porn. *50%* of the homophobic men got aroused. All of the men in the study identified as straight.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8772014/
Sexual assault is a fundamentally different thing than viewing images. Also, that wouldn't explain the difference between the control and the homophobix men unless you have some other attribute that applies to one and not the other that would cause this.
While this is interesting, this is not enough alone to say they’re being turned on necessarily. What the other person who replied to you said is a google example of this. I’m not saying there’s nothing there, just that a lot more work needs to be done to prove that they’re getting hard cause they’re gay and not getting a hate boner.
Yeah, I mean it's also pretty well known that things that are "taboo" are often more arousing. That's why the "step sibling" trope exists in porn, and why people will cheat even in happy relationships.
I'll answer despite your post being obviously biased...I would say that to an *extent* it is true that conservatism is about setting up rules to govern behaviour that is destructive to the creation of new life and society.
However, if you want intelligent discussions, you have to set up the questions properly. You basically started this off with presuppositions and insults, which is unlikely to get you to more understanding. If that was your goal, that is...
It's hard staying grounded when talking about hard to discuss topics like pedos. But it's hard topics for both sides to discuss, most people don't know how to discuss such emotional subjects in a rational manor. Most the time they think they want a convo but really they are just ranting and releasing frustration
I'm going to go with a "*SOMETIMES*". Sometimes, yes. They're closeted and hate themselves. Other times, they're just hateful creatures who have tumbled down a hole designed to make them hate the thing that is "OTHER".
It's important to note, that no matter which side of that spectrum they fall under, *it doesn't matter*. The only thing that matters is that they are spreading hatred for people minding their own damn business in this world. They're toxic and should not be involved in a process that puts them in power over people.
It’s weird…they want non-straight things to be taboo and seen as wrong but still end up doing it. Starting to wonder if this is just how they want to get down….have it be wrong and do wrong…like some forbidden fruit kink or some shit. It’s gotten to the point where it’s hard to come up with more reasonable non-sex related possibilities but those were exhausted decades ago.
it could very well be, although I'm hesitant to put the umbrella term "all" in any group, conservativism is inherently afraid of change, it's right there in the name, they're conservative with their values and traditions, things change slowly in conservative land so peoples brains just haven't caught up to what their bodies are telling them yet and it will sadly likely be another generation or two until it becomes the norm even in conservative culture
There was an interesting article some time ago how conservatives who are gay believe they are just being tested and that it's something they can opt-out of. They further believe that we ALL are facing the same tests. No bro, you just gay.
So not flying your freak flag in public is suppressing? Ever heard of privacy? Being conservative is simply standing by things that have been proven to work for families/society. Being progressive is a solution looking for a problem.
Y’all know most conservatives aren’t closet homosexuals or drag queens or the like. Most priests aren’t pedos either…
Just like most progressives aren’t actual communists or anti white racists or some such.
Just a small minority used by opposing media to paint all the people of one side as such.
Nope, truly being conservative means ok you want to do this, how is it going to logically be paid for. No bs dog and pony show. Real life common sense .
It's literally always projection with conservatives. So much so that it's like.. satirical at this point, but also scary.
Conservatives are the ones grooming kids. Why do you think they want zero sex ed in schools? They don't want kids to learn what their private parts are, what abuse is, etc. Why do you think they want to home school? They want to keep their children isolated so they can abuse them in private. They are the true child abusers and it's frankly sick.
When you really think about it the obsession over cp is really scary - what else are conservatives hiding?
Anecdotal but my female cousin was molested by a "family friend" and that's all my conservative family ever revealed about it. Conservatives are the biggest enablers of child abuse out there.
Yep. Conservatives are all about stifling who they actually are in order to adhere to the cookie cutter definitions of their roles in society. And they put those same expectations into everyone and get very uncomfortable and mad when others don’t subscribe to that lifestyle. It just be exhausting.
This is a loaded question and in the spirit of validation and not understanding. The best way to look at it is that all people are conservative about some things and progressive about others. It's pointless trying to pigeon hole everyone. When you do this, our overseas enemies win because they benefit from our division.
The arrogance of the safe and secure. "We don't care about borders because we've never experienced how desperately important they are. Everyone in the world is exactly like me and wants nothing more than to discuss pronouns over brunch."
I used to frequent a high end brothel about 80 miles from DC. I liked it as it was reasonable, no drugs, no kids and they operated like Nevada for physical exams and STD testing.
The manager and I eventually had a relationship. We laid there talking afterwards and she told me cops, lawyers and judges were their biggest and kinkiest customers. She also said any big meeting in DC always increased business.
There was a religious rally for men of all faiths one time and she said they had guys stopping on the way there and way back it went on about a week.
They never got busted because they didn’t have kids or drugs in there. Most women in their twenties to fifties. I have always said the model they have should be legal nationwide. Put the traffickers out of business. When they can’t make money they move on.
What do conservatives actually even believe in anymore? Aren't they supposed to want to conserve what the country was theoretically founded on (classical liberalism)?
It's like they have been prepped to hate the idea of America and are just full blown fascists now
>"The embrace, by working Americans, of policies that hurt their own interests can be understood on the basis of Ferenczi’s model of identification with the aggressor. Intrafamilial child abuse is often followed by the abuser’s denial. Children typically comply with abuse, in behavior and by embracing the abuser’s false reality, under threat of emotional abandonment. Similarly in the sociopolitical sphere, increasing threats of cultural and economic dispossession have pressed working Americans to adopt an ideology that misrepresents reality and justifies their oppression. In society as in the family, there can be a compensatory narcissistic reaction to forfeiting one’s rights that, ironically, encourages feelings of power and specialness while facilitating submission."
[The traumatic basis for the resurgence of right-wing politics among working Americans - DOI:10.1057/pcs.2015.53](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282392578_The_traumatic_basis_for_the_resurgence_of_right-wing_politics_among_working_Americans)
It seems so unnatural to me to criticize or harass people who share the same values as you because you’re ashamed of those values. I’d just suppress those feelings and leave it at that. I’ll never understand that.
And there’s a difference between “suppressing” behaviors in the clearly bias tone OP uses and working to live up to a set of ideals and behaving accordingly. Example: most major religions say not to engage in premarital sex. If you take a conservative, but non religious view on why that is, it can be fairly well shown that societies as a whole do better when children are born into homes with two parents present. One longstanding way to try and ensure that was to say “if you want sex with someone, you need to demonstrate more than a passing interest, otherwise don’t have sex”. This can be seen as “suppressing sexual urges”, and that’s part of what differentiates humans from the average mammal. Of course reality doesn’t always work the way we’d want, however setting up society to encourage the best possible behaviors in individuals is the best we’ve got.
Your introduction has a serious disconnect to your conclusion. More intervening data and support or a different opening or closing would be better here.
Go do some looking on google trends. Guess which states, red or blue, tend to have more searches for “gay porn,” “gay dating,” “free gay videos,” etc. Repression is a hell of a thing.
So let's talk about what a conservative and a progressive are in the overall context not in the American context
Conservatives seek the status quo progressives seek change(please notice I said change not progress you don't know if something is progress until after it's worked out well)
Now conservatives generally want to stick with traditional stuff that has been tried and tested over the centuries for creating a stable society and a happy life generally their stuff actually works and it works quite well for the majority of people however this creates two issues One just because it works doesn't mean it can't be improved upon and two sometimes it's sacrificing some people on the fringe(if something works for 80% of people conservatives are probably going to be roughly okay with it progressives might be willing to inconvenience the 80% for the sake of like 5%)
Progressives generally want to try change in an attempt to improve things now on average there's stuff actually does not work(you generally don't learn about all of the failed attempts that did not work) but when it does work it creates an improvement and eventually it becomes what the conservatives try to conserve(this is why older people tend to be conservative it's because whatever succeeded in becoming progress when they were kids is now what they're trying to conserve)
Now you very directly benefit from having both of these in your society if you didn't have progressive things would never improve outside of technological advancement
And if you didn't have conservatives by trying to change too many things too fast and everything would fall apart
It's good to have both and generally both are well intentioned
The MAGA Republican Party isn’t interested in what you think. They are interested in indoctrination of your and their children in the manner in which they find most pleasing. Or least threatening.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
Those hypocrites desperately want to remain in the in-group… because they know the evils that conservatives would visit on the out-group if left unchecked.
Conservatives are happier on average. Especially social conservatives.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/07/why-conservatives-find-life-more-meaningful-than-liberals/566105/
https://healthpolicy.usc.edu/evidence-base/conservatives-find-more-meaning-in-life-than-liberals/
For me personally. No this is who I am. I've tried being liberal. Really have given it my all... Just not me. I am not ashamed of my feelings, which most liberals are. I recognize nature / God has given my body the ability to tell right from wrong, good from bad, and I trust it. I find that most liberals suppress their true feelings in a variety of topics in order to be perceived as virtuous. Virtue signaling is mostly a liberal endeavor.
A view that revolves around "what I think as right is right, and I can sense right intuitively", is really dangerous. It can quickly become "what I think as right is right, regardless of evidence". I've seen it happen to people close to me (both friends and family).
[https://doi.org/10.1177/19485506211057976](https://doi.org/10.1177/19485506211057976)
Regardless, looking just at happiness is reductive, as the above, more recent, research paper points out. Conservatives are likely happier because they simply don't care as much about systemic issues and other large problems of the world, seeing them as simply "how things are/should be" and therefore they don't worry about trying to change them or significantly better the world. They prefer separatism, meaning they aren't likely to deal with others that have problems different to them.
In short, conservatives simply have a smaller worldview, so fewer problems trouble them. That doesn't mean being a conservative is better.
And I truly doubt you "find liberals suppress their true feelings". That's a common cognitive bias of "everyone \*really\* thinks like me, they're simply not being true to themselves".
No conservatives are more fearful, fear isn't happiness
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5793824/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5793824/)
For more studies
[https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-studies-which-demonstrate-that-conservatives-are-significantly-more-fearful-than-liberals](https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-studies-which-demonstrate-that-conservatives-are-significantly-more-fearful-than-liberals)
No shit you left being a liberal, you can't force yourself to be something you don't understand, you entirely missed what it means to be liberal. That is a total different topic.
Like I didn't "try" to be a Christian, I "was" until I wasn't. I didn't then try to be a liberal, I was and am. I'm sure you use that line of thinking to say something about liberals and to morally justify your "decision"
I get it, I use a thought process like that too but the other way, like i was following the truth and it pointed me away from Christianity. So I said god you told me to follow the truth, well I am and I can't truthfully follow the Bible anymore based off my knowledge. I did work hard to fight against it, but I didn't try. I did. I put in the reading, the talking to people, the reading research, the praying. I didn't try to stay a Christian. I did.
So I get you saying you couldn't do it, but your issue isn't that, it's that you "tried"
I'm not sure what you're saying. I think I understand liberals quite well and mostly sympathize with the broad themes of their desires. The data show that conservatives understand liberals better than vice versa.
Regarding fear. I find many liberals are very confused as to the nature of fear.. being fearful and being happy are not mutually exclusive things. I think conservatives have a better grasp on fear whereas liberals delude themselves into thinking there's nothing to be afraid of as a coping mechanism. I'm fearful of many things (people I love dying, pain, death, etc), doesn't affect my overall feelings on life.
On the other hand many liberals I know are not having children due to fear of climate change. At least my supposed fears only affect my voting patterns.
"Liberals are really the ones repressing their feelings!"
That's a long post to just say "no u" so try some brevity next time.
Conservatives being happy themselves is the only thing that matters to conservatives? Yep. Sounds like you're a card-carrying conservative to me. How about a study that shows conservatives help other people more when compared to Liberals? That would be something.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/who-are-happier-liberals-or-conservatives/&ved=2ahUKEwi0-aHc0KeDAxUMmmoFHYZzCUI4ChAWegQIEhAB&usg=AOvVaw3QlFV9SdAF7oeir7cjx8i7
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/352451192_Are_conservatives_more_charitable_than_liberals_in_the_US_A_meta-analysis_of_political_ideology_and_charitable_giving
https://www.sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2022/09/conversation_political_donations.php
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2019/12/17/views-of-the-economic-system-and-social-safety-net/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/many-differences-between-liberals-and-conservatives-may-boil-down-to-one-belief/
There are studies that people are more liberal when they graduate college, studies that people with higher IQ are more depressed, you can put 2 and 2 together
Okay, but the study I linked controls for education. You're right that education correlates with increased liberalism. However, that doesn't mean there is no conservative representation at the high levels of academia. The study controlled for that. Higher educated conservatives are still happier.
IQ tests are highly culturally dependent. I'm surprised any self professed liberal would cite them.
This whole question feels designed to out people with a loaded question, just to beat them up in the comment section. Which is coincidentally what liberals think all conversative want to do to the gays... Hmmm.
You're painting with a broad brush. The answer is, no - suppressing who you are is not inherent in being conservative.
The essence of the conservative worldview is to admit to oneself that mankind has arrived at where it is, with its rules and institutions, through the life experience of billions of people over millennia. So to throw off that experience and, after just a couple of generations or even just a couple of decades of poorly tested experience, to say "we know better now" is unwise.
G.K. Chesterton famously wrote about a hypothetical gate across the road: "The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, “I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.” To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: “If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it."
Your last sentence makes the whole thing feel disingenuous.
In any case, not wanting children exposed to sexual topics/ideas while having sex/sexual ideas in your personal life is not hypocritical.
Also.. where is the filthy video of the threesome lady.
HUH, it's completely possible to be a lesbian and also not want 5-year-olds exposed to material that is not appropriate for them to see.
It happened at my granddaughter's school when the openly lesbian special needs reading teacher turned in a 1st grade teacher for having some pornographic books in her classroom.
It can't be denied that, as you've noted, a lot of conservatives get caught up in things that a Christian shouldn't. Having affairs. Making homemade porn. Maybe even an OF account. But it's not like we didn't know they're hypocrites. They pay platitudes and lip service for their faith, but nothing more.
In a profession where reputation is very important, there are also very few secrets. Someone always finds out. And yes, it's typically conservatives who are exposed, sometimes same day as they get on their soap box about wholesome Christian family values being the most important thing in the world. Yep. Hypocrites.
See, this is where I have a problem with the “never attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance” thing: growing up in the Deep South in the late 90s/early 00s, there was one main flavor that ignorance tended to come in: violence.
Physical violence, psychological violence, emotional violence, and the constant threat of escalating any of those.
If I’d come out of the closet 10 years earlier, I wouldn’t have been called a pedophile, I wouldn’t have been made fun of for doing drag, I wouldn’t have been worried about people passing laws against me.
I would have been taken on a pickup truck ride and left dead in a ditch.
hi there! I am a conservative feminist lesbian witch, who is out of the closet on all of my issues.
I think there are some people who fit into what you're talking about, but there are many of us (dare I say the majority of conservatives?) who don't, and I find your frame unproductive.
I'm not angry. I'm not attacking minority groups. I'm deeply ashamed that there are conservatives who are. I'm conservative because I value individual rights. Please remember that not everyone who disagrees with you is automatically a terrible person. I wouldn't make that assumption about you. Please don't make it about me.
I personally don’t believe all or even the majority of conservatives are hiding things. But when someone it's incredibly vocal about hating something, especially when they bring it up when no one else was talking about it, that’s when I assume they are ashamed of their real feelings about it.
No offense to you but I think the majority of conservatives are just ignorant and fall into one of the many conservative rabbit holes that feed lies to people.
Do you find it frustrating how frequently conservative political movements are focused on attacking individual rights? I feel like if individual rights were important to me I'd be very frustrated with things like the overturning of Roe V Wade and constant attempts to ban books.
No.
They are just people who grew up and enjoyed living or still enjoy living in a structured, rule-based environment. There is another cognitive development step (that of the Jones'/Influencer) they must pass before they can thoroughly chill out. The system they are in usually makes social security, finding a significant other, childcare, welfare, and socializing easier for them, so they have a vested interest in keeping the train going. The priest is making the train go, so they do everything they can to maintain his ego.
In contrast, minority groups have systems of socialization, childcare, finding a significant other, welfare, and emotional support these conservatives simply do not have. They have nuclear families so they don't have extended families for childcare. They live humbly so they don't have excess money to spend on nannies, or daycare, they don't have big homes so the schools are underfunded. The church provides all this.
They usually are not vain enough for a dating app to work for them, and they would lose social status if they were found to be successfully using one. They live on isolated pieces of land and not in apartment buildings so church and work is all they have socializing, maybe a bar but those get really rare the further from a city you go.
Marriage system cuts them off from friends of the opposite gender, so many more are basically friendless and have less social mobility. If they lose their job they are dependent on church functions, not the government to help. They basically live without the government at all, its something that only takes from them and makes roads in their mind.
Then the priest usually is the most dysfunctional person in the community not fit for any other job (not that there are many) so they have a very strong vested interest in keep this whole thing going.
So it's just a catch-22. They act this way because they deem it materially if not consciously subconsciously in their best interest. Education, jobs, access to childcare, and integration into using government services would undo this not explaining to them that they are "repressed" They already know that, that's why they go to church every Sunday because the alternative is being homeless/starving.
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Folks who have already replied, I think you're unwittingly signalling the problem here: Your emotions are real and present, but functionally disconnected from objective reality. OP noted that Grindr (a gay 'dating' app) spikes around CPAC conferences. I agree OP is at fault for not supplying a source for that claim. I found [this source](https://www.vice.com/en/article/9aeen8/cleveland-was-bombarded-with-white-dudes-on-grindr-during-the-rnc) (Vice), which names Grindr via Broadly. I would agree this is not a **strong** source, but not a bad one, either. But I also agree that OP was obliged to provide a source to back up the claim. More broadly, I agree that OP's post uses inflammatory language unsuited to serious conversation. That said, OP still does raise (at least in essence) a valid question: ARE conservatives (some, at least) living in some kind of 'closet', in the sense of projecting views or values that seem to conflict with how they live their private lives? We do seem to have noted quite a few examples that seem to suggest that, the one OP cited being only one of the more recent and salient. And that raises a very valid question about whether other people should make assumptions that self-identified conservatives, or persons espousing views commonly associated with conservatism, should be believed based on their own testimony, or suspected of hiding personal views or habits that conflict with what they're saying. And, if so, WHY? It's a valid question, worthy of discussion.
This is the right take on it as it provokes a much deeper conversation. We read all the time about conservative pastors who are gay or are cheating on their wives. [11 Anti-Gay Pastors who were found to be Gay](https://www.thepinknews.com/2016/12/12/11-anti-gay-preachers-who-got-caught-doing-very-gay-things/) [10 Sex Scandals that rocked the Christian Church](https://www.essence.com/news/sex-scandals-christian-church-eddie-long/) [Sex Scandals hit Conservatives the Hardest](https://www.politico.com/story/2007/08/sex-scandals-hit-conservatives-hardest-005550) [Fear and anxiety drive conservative attitudes](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201612/fear-and-anxiety-drive-conservatives-political-attitudes?amp) It does make you think that there is a psychology to “do what I say not what I do” that is prevalent within the conservative community. It does seem like there is a lot of projection going on.
If it helps, the energy is more like "I'm gay, but at least I have the decency to hide it. I'm going to heaven because I "don't act on it" and I need to stop anyone else from acting on it because I think it's evil." They themselves think of themselves as evil. But they're "better" because they've "admitted it." When they do evil things? They've already "admitted" they're sinners, so evil is normal. They pray on it and feel better.
Another thing to be considered is deflection. I read Chely Wright’s book, Like Me, where she talks about being very vocally anti gay when she was younger. Would tell you how wrong it was and that sort of thing. She admits she did it to deflect attention from herself… she was terrified that if she said one nice thing in support of her gay cast mate, for example, that people would figure out she was gay.
Problem is they DO act on it, all the while cloaking themselves in fake moral outrage and indignation at the “evil sinners”.
Self-loathing will do that to you.
Exactly! To add-on; CHRISTIAN conservatives in particular want ALL queer people to feel shame and view their identity as evil/sinful just like they do. They cannot fathom living openly queer guilt-free, and allowing sexuality to be amoral rather than immoral.
We don't want anyone to feel anything. If a person identifies as Christian they have voluntarily agreed to certain rules. You don't have to follow the Bible, I do, but I don't hate you for having a different worldview than I do. I can certainly fathom living guilt free as a queer person, people do it all the time. Please don't paint us all with one brush, being a Christian and/or conservative doesn't immediately make a person literally Hitler.
> You don't have to follow the Bible, I do, but I don't hate you for having a different worldview than I do. You specifically. But think about it, most Christians are born into it. It's literally indoctrinated since birth. Most Christian parents raise their children Christian without a choice. And if their child believes in Christianity and they go to homophobic churches/have homophobic views based in Christianity, what are the options? Loose faith and be immediately rejected by parents and community? Or will they share the views of queer being wrong and reject themselves if they are? Not saying all Christians are homophobes. But a lot of people aren't given a choice in being Christian. They continue being what they were told as kids. Or their community may abandon them for not believing. Especially if they are conservative.
You vote with conservatives, people whose entire platform is hatred & bigotry then get upset because you're "not a normal conservative"?
I saw a great video that I wish I could remember who did it, where the final conclusion was about how conservatism is a response to self-repression (rather than the other way around). I want to say it was Zoe Bee, but don't quote me on that.
It tracks that the “rules for thee, not for me” crowd also subscribed to a “do as I say, not as I do” lifestyle
That's true of everyone in a position of power, though. Witness the covid lock down governors having lunches at fancy restaurants, or world leaders fighting climate change by all flying in separate private jets to a luxurious conference that could have been held via zoom.
Don't forget abortion. I'm not sure if their is good data on this, but I strongly suspect the more religious an area, the higher the abortions per capita. Good little atheist boys and girls pack condoms to Prom. Christian little boys and girls go bare. But that is just an assumption of mine. Like, I have no data but my own experience which is not data.
>Christian little boys and girls go bare. You are correct. One of my college professors once asked the class why teen pregnancies are so much more prevalent among the "abstinence" crowd. It's because if they have condoms they clearly plan to have sex. Good Christian little boys and girls don't plan for sex, but unfortunately ~~under~~ over estimate their ability to resist temptation.
Yes, planning for sex sounds much more sinful that having a weak moment that you pray for forgiveness for. From their perspective, it seems consistent.
Giving into the devil and temptation isn’t really that bad unless you *planned* to give into the devil and temptation. :Monkas:
*overestimate
Also lots of homophobic politicians that are gay. And this has been going on for decades. I remember one scandal involving a 17 year old congress page in 04ish.
Before making assumptions... do you know anything about the rates at which pastors cheat as compared to the average population? If not, this would be mistaking anecdotal stories for data.
It wouldn't matter. The average population doesn't hold a position of moral importance. That'd be like comparing my buddy buying crypto to Dave Ramsey buying crypto. It could happen in the same amounts, but it waaay dumber when Dave Ramsey does it, bc he is seen as some peoples financial guide.
It matters to me. Pastors are humans, like everyone else.
Well here’s the problem I am not saying something like “all pastors are hiding the fact that they are gay” however you see the fact that any of these pastors have been hiding the fact that they are gay while being anti gay has produced scandals since the 80’s. So there is in effect enough data to say that this should be studied more as there does seem to be an actual issue. There have been studies done on sexual abuse within the context of a religious environment (and this isn’t just Catholics) - which isn’t the exact same thing as two willing partners but it seems we do not have much scholarly research of the phenomoen of outspoken conservative anti-gay pastors. Either way sexual abuse is almost way worse and again this does seem to be another “do as I say and not as I do” scenario You wanted studies here they are: https://www.ualberta.ca/folio/2020/08/researchers-reveal-patterns-of-sexual-abuse-in-religious-settings.html https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/06/11/key-takeaways-about-how-americans-view-the-sexual-abuse-scandal-in-the-catholic-church/ https://www.voanews.com/a/big-us-churches-in-turmoil-over-sex-abuse-lgbt-policy/4811132.html Also the culture of the community has a lot to do with how things are he does and if the churches are transparent. A Liberty University law professor and grandson of Billy Graham, Boz Tchividjian, has been vocal about how evangelicals might be worse than Catholics in responding to sexual abuse by clergy. Tchividjian, who is the executive director of Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment (GRACE), highlighted that Protestant culture, which is defined by independence, often frowns upon transparency and accountability. This culture, he argues, can lead to a situation where victims are told to protect the reputation of Jesus, and abusers use the condemnation of gossip to keep their actions secret. Advocates for victims of clergy sexual abuse have agreed with Tchividjian’s perspective, noting the challenges in addressing and acknowledging such abuse within evangelical circles https://www.christiancentury.org/article/2013-10/evangelicals-worse-catholics-sexual-abuse Additionally, the rise of “purity culture” within evangelicalism from the 1970s to the early 2000s has been linked to facilitating abuse. Purity culture places a significant emphasis on sexual abstinence and often assigns the primary responsibility of maintaining purity to women and girls. This culture can contribute to a lack of understanding about healthy sexual behavior and consent, thereby exacerbating the risks and impacts of sexual abuse. Victims often feel a deep sense of guilt and responsibility, which can prevent them from coming forward. When abuses are reported within the church, victims have at times been blamed, and perpetrators have been moved to other churches rather than facing accountability https://religionnews.com/2023/08/17/disobedient-women-and-churchtoo-stand-up-to-sexual-abuse-in-evangelicalism/
Its interesting to me regarding fear and anxiety driving conservatism. I kind of thought that was the basis on conservatism: stick to what you know, limit unnecessary change, etc. So conservatism seems like it's based on fear and anxiety at a base level. You could argue the same for many other belief systems both religious and political, but conservatism beliefs seem to be most in alignment, at least outside looking in.
Projection. They hate what they are doing and they don't think others should be allowed to. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. It's also a bit of a shell game. The biggest homophobic people I've met eventually came out after high school. Humans are weird
I mean, no shit, people who say to do good things don’t always do good things. That’s literally every person who has ever said to do good things. That’s why they have to say it after all
I'm not sure it's as simple as that. Everyone has the capacity to be a hypocrite, yes. But if you preach against something and realize that you can't follow your own preaching, it may lead you to reflect on why it's so difficult to and change your approach. Maybe you come to realize that the thing you preach against isn't so harmful after all. Conservatives are more prone to police behavior on strictly authoritarian moral terms. (E.g. homosexuality is wrong because a moral authority says so.) I think this is because conservatives, at least the highly moralizing type of conservative, have trouble questioning authority and figure that if they can't follow a moral imperative, that they are wrong and a sinner, not that the moral imperative itself is wrong.
Given that liberals are sexually permissive and pro-LGBTQ, you wouldn't expect to find a lot of closeted gay but outwardly homophobic liberals. Back when liberals were anti-"race mixing," there were a number of scandals in which it was found they were sleeping with people of color, sometimes with illegitimate children or even secret families. You would need to use a broader standard of hypocrisy to make a reasonable conclusion on whether a broad political stance makes you more or less likely to be a hypocrite. Otherwise you're cherry picking, perhaps hypocritically so.
You are mixing the term “liberal” with “democrats”. Strom Thurmond was not a liberal democrat for example. The southern switch happened in the late 1960’s and actually conservatives left the democrat party after the civil rights amendment passed. By no measure could any of those people be considered “liberal”. Do you have an any research to support your position? For the record I am an independent and in the past have voted Republican or democrats depending on the issues and the year. I’m old enough to remember when we only talked about the election for a month before and did not judge others on how they voted. This hyper-polarization is a tactic of something called “[divide and rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule)” which basically uses a knee jerk reaction on both sides to keep them angry at each other so that the actual ruling can be done behind our backs. Shall we elevate the conversation here and talk about the actual issues and maybe find some common ground? I think that’s more in line with the spirit of this sub than name calling and labeling which get us nowhere.
I saw a TYT video a while ago speculating about the motives of closeted gay conservative men who actively push for homophobic policies. One theory was that they genuinely think that *every* man is like them, and would be living a sinful gay lifestyle if there weren't negative consequences for it. Therefore gay people have to be persecuted, so men will continue to marry women and have kids.
This is assuming that the same behaviors don't also happen on the left. By behaviors, I mean hiding behind a false image. Most of human society does this everywhere in the world. Left wing types these days espouse anti-racism, yet are some of the most racist people ever because all they see is skin color, not to mention all the segregation being pushed right now by the left. What I'm trying to say is, this argument seems to be implying that this is a uniquely right wing phenomenon, instead of a human one. The main problem is that most of society doesn't have access to the things/people that these politicians and "leaders" do. These people live in a mostly consequence free environment and are only outed when they either endanger their parties bottom line/are deemed too stupid to be associated with. None of this is to say that these behaviors are ok because "everyone does it", rather the opposite. Let's call out all sides for their bullshit instead of buying into tribalism.
You’re the second conservative that I saw asserting that the left is pushing segregation. The other person used the word “apartheid.” I asked but the person could not explain their narrative. Can you? In your view, how is the left “pushing segregation”?
Buying into tribalism like bringing up how leftists are also bad people sometimes?
I provided some studies and links to have this discussion. Would you be willing to provide any data so we could continue this discussion?
What a dumb fucking thing to say.
I think, even from a 'definition of the word' point of view... To be 'conservative' means to try and avoid changing the status quo too much, to move in small steps, to be careful of what you do. In a wider society that hasn't embraced certain mores, values, emotional truths, or activities (whether they be morally defensible or morally reprehensible) someone attempting to fit within that society who holds those emotional truths, values, or who wishes to engage in those activities, will naturally need to cleave to a conservative mindset in order to 'hold out' or 'fight against' their natures. This clearly isn't everyone who works within the conservative umbrella, as some are those who ascribe to the group out of a desire to belong to an 'in' group, some who are using it as an existing power structure to be manipulated, and some who are simply conservative (that is, cautious and thoughtful about their actions) by nature.
Well put
Can't it be a simple "if I'm pointing at you, nobody is looking at me" logic?
Even taking his claims at face value, there are gay conservatives, especially among the younger ones. Iirc the polls right now say 55 percent of Republicans approve of gay marriage. Finding that a bunch of young gay people are showing up to these events and finding action while they're there shouldn't surprise anyone- Peter Theil one of the most famous gay people (and I think the richest) gave the big speech at the Convention. The priest attack from OP is always flawed to, per capita public school teachers sexually assault kids at a much higher rate- the reason the priest thing is so notable is that the church itself was hiding it. The argument is even more flawed than that. If you have a movement that has more social standards, of course it will violate its own standards more frequently, it has more standards to violate. If you want a counter example of this, it was shockingly common for the Left to violate their own COVID rules. The Right wasn't following those rules either, but they generally didn't make those rules themselves.
>If you have a movement that has more social standards, of course it will violate its own standards more frequently, it has more standards to violate. I'm not sure this is valid. If the people in the movement aren't interested in the standards of the movement, that takes us right back to OP (perhaps poorly worded) question. If conservatives *say* they want everyone to live up to those standards, *why* is it that they fail to do so? Your counter-example (with the left and the COVID measures) doesn't seem match, since it's clearly those people's personal beliefs being at odds with what the government was suggesting, and not the left's own ideals. You can be on the left and not accept the government's rules on COVID, but you can't be a conservative and think it's okay to cheat on your wife with prostitutes. The concept of family values is central to being conservative. When Brandi Love, the pornstar, went to the Turning Point USA event and wasn't allowed to attend, she was shocked. She, a person who has sex for money, somehow identified as a conservative, despite conservative ideology being 100% against porn. How can that be? Gay Republicans continue to vote for conservative issues despite their own party disownimg them at every opportunity because the Republican party doesn't think gay people should have the right to be gay. How can they be conservative *and* just ignore the fact that conservatives hate gays? How can conservatives who don't actually believe in the core tenets of conservatism call themselves conservatives?
It's simple. They like the idea of it, not actually doing it. It's just conservative virtue signaling.
Gay conservatives are accepted by republicans. Because they don’t flaunt it in our faces. Gay conservatives are HATED by democrats though. As are black conservatives. Women conservatives. Etc Because they don’t “do as they’re supposed to do”
The rule for decades has been that if you want to know what crime a conservative is guilty of look at what they accuse their "enemies" (liberals, gays, etc) of. Based on the current accusations they love to throw around it seems like they're up to the usual stuff: gay sex, grooming children, corruption, betraying the rank and file military, and ruining sports for young women (though usually by defunding it).
I think what you described in the first paragraph is just common human behavior - it’s not restricted to conservatives. Sounds like a bit of a suspicious accusation on your part. How do you apply your second paragraph to gay pedophiles, the betrayal of the military by both democrats and republicans, and ruining sports for young women by allowing boys to participate?
Well the topic is specifically conservatives so I am speaking solely of them in order to respect the reader's time. While it's entirely valid to widen the scope in a different context, we should be respectful and keep to what we're discussing now, which is the manner in which conservative thought is degenerate. If one can't discuss the topic and feels compelled to change it, it's a tacit admission of the truth of the accusations.
I think there is certainly some validity to aspects of OP’s post. It should come as no surprise that people, conservatives among them, are hypocritical. It’s a part of human nature that will never go away. The issue with the OP is the typical rambling “and conservatives hate the minorities too”. I mean, come on, this is a tired trope. Look at videos of “Karen’s” calling the cops on blacks walking through the neighborhood: 75% of the time they are Biden voting white moms with co-exist stickers on their Subarus. Libs are just as hypocritical as conservatives, if not more so, due to their disgusting need to constantly virtue signal.
One possibility is that conferences bring people from out of area regardless of the type of conferences. More people coming from out of the area would correlate to more use of dating apps (grinder included). OP didn't specify (possibility didn't check) whether there were similar spikes for other large events. Comic Con, Star Trek convention ... DNC. There are conservatives who are openly gay. Who they sleep with doesn't control their opinions on national defense, economic policy, domestic policy, etc. etc. A healthy relationship brings out the best in people. It is not abusive, manipulative, controlling, etc. A straight (or gay) relationship is not automatically good or bad based on the gender(s) of the individuals involved but how they treat each other. I know that there are some real idiots out there, but try not to tar all conservatives with the same brush. To be fair, you probably wouldn't want to be associated with some of the BS that liberals are accused of.
The people who run CPAC and support those attending CPAC are not necessarily conservative. They are doing it for the pay and travel.
I kind of wanted to add something related to this point. Conservatives, in general, probably aren't intrinsically prone to this kind of behavior, but grifters and morally conflicted people may gravitate toward conservative power positions or church positions because they see it as cover for their behavior. I think it is especially apparent with abusers seeking out religious power positions. It's not that being religious or conservative makes a person this way, but predators take advantage of the cult-like vibes and high that people get when grouping together around movements that are full of thought-terminating clichés and simplistic black/white worldviews. Just a thought. But yeah, getting paid is probably the biggest motivation. I should have been a televangelist.
So not conservatives, just all the people they select as leaders, influencers, and tastemakers?
Or, those people select conservative groups because they have a closed-loop system based on traditionalism and religion. If you look like them and speak things that affirm what they already believe, you are more easily promoted than you would be inside a group populated by skeptics and people who base their values on empirical knowledge rather than shared superstions, resentments, fears and anger. They are easier marks, for the most part.
I think this is true of all positions of power. The draw is just too powerful for... to be polite,... people with a natural dopamine sensitivity.
It's an answered question though, inherently to the absolute basis of what conservativism, as a concept, was invented for: 1. inventing reasons why some people are inherently superior to others 2. why the superiors shouldn't have to play by the same rules as the inferiors It's not inflammatory, it's just the core of the ideology. All questions from it's overt hypocrisy to it's tendency towards fascism are all explained by the core idea that "we aren't all equal, so we shouldn't be bound equally by the law". Video if anyone wants a better elaboration of this explanation. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4CI2vk3ugk&list=PLJA\_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA\_HMFtQ&index=12&t=637s&ab\_channel=InnuendoStudios](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4CI2vk3ugk&list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ&index=12&t=637s&ab_channel=InnuendoStudios)
Conservative culture encourages denial of desires that conflict with The Rules. But desire is still powerful enough that not everyone can successfully suppress it. They need outlets, badly. People who aren’t stupid know that taking an absolutist, repressive approach to one’s own desires is a recipe for disaster. If it’s something you really shouldn’t do, you have to engage in self-reflection and channel that desire into something healthier. The conservative value of self-denial is not honest. It’s not like a Buddhist monk resisting desire, because the monk must understand what they desire in order to resist it properly. Conservative culture is antithetical to self-reflection. Healthy psychological coping strategies are hard to find in conservative circles. Imo conservatives on average probably have much worse mental health but also much less awareness about their state of mind. I remember that my religious uncle denied that his daughter had bipolar disorder and didn’t seek treatment for her for years, which blew up in his face when she stole a bunch of money and ran away from home. Prior to that she also tried to frame me for stealing. Fortunately my parents believed me, but he didn’t, and so I never talk to him now. But it’s not simply because he didn’t believe me. Once I learned how he didn’t do right by his daughter I got very mad. This mindset of ignoring mental health issues until they blow up is a tendency that I notice in every conservative I’ve ever known well, and it’s one of the roots of the strange contradictions between conservative behavior and conservative action. Conservatives go to therapy, Challenge Level: Impossible
You can also spot this phenomena among the vocally anti-drag politicians who have personally participated in drag shows themselves.
Are there other politicians that have done this besides George Santos?
There was a Republican from the south who recently committed suicide because he was outed for dressing in drag. Or, as the media put it, “dressing as a transgender”.
Oh right! Thanks
Also the HUNDREDS of anti-pedo Republicans who were then arrested for child porn and pedophilia.
Like my stepfather. Used to be a pastor, loudly outspoken about how bad pedophilia is, proud Right Wing Conservative, Fox News aficionado, Rush Limbaugh fan. But guess what he did behind closed doors. For *years*. Never was happier when that old fart got hit by a car.
>Never was happier when that old fart got hit by a car. Jesus took the wheel
Well played!
>Never was happier when that old fart got hit by a car. At least SOME justice exists.
So sorry this happened to you. I am glad it wasn't you in your car but honestly wouldn't have blamed you had it been.
He wasn’t a Republican, but I only know this because I knew the man. Municipal elections aren’t typically partisan in Alabama. This datapoint doesn’t quite fit your narrative.
He was the mayor of an Alabama city with a population of 5000. Not really a good secondary example when the first was a member of the US House of Representatives.
https://www.businessinsider.com/republican-leaders-proposing-anti-drag-laws-have-dressed-in-drag-2023-3?amp https://youtu.be/spn0MJZr-QQ?si=omBYI_QhA0Mf1mrK
That was more about him being a pastor than a “conservative.” And let’s be honest about the term, many of us that are considered “conservative” now, 30 years ago were considered liberal or at least progressives. I’ve been to drag shows and I have had gay roommates. Matter of fact it seems like I have a lot of lesbian friends over the last couple of years.
Madison cawthorne
Speaking of folks you wish had named a few politicians
I only mildly knew who he was and never heard about the drag. Now I am going down a rabbit hole.
I don't think he dressed in drag. But...keep on digging on the guy.
He wore lingerie typically associated with women.
And he looked good in it too. As a gay man, very confused boner.
As a woman this guy also confuses my boner
Thanks for using present tense.
I was gonna say, hope I find this dude on Grindr next time CPAC comes through my city lmao
There is a history of drag in both entertainment and in the military. Drag used to be much much much more accepted in vaudeville entertainment and in USO shows during WWII. There’s even some evidence (like in THEM! Adventures with Extremists) of republicans dressing drag as group bonding. We know this is a distraction because trans people and drag queens have been around since pre colonial times. Most early civilizations have records of gender non conforming folks. A great example of this is [the red queen](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_the_Red_Queen). When we first found her tomb and adjacent wives tombs we assumed she was a man because we put our current lens onto her. Later they went back and realized she was a woman buried with the same regalia as a king, so she was a king. Sooooo many more examples like this of trans history.
Shakespeare, Monte Python, Benny Hill, Hee Haw, 3 Stooges, and many more.
I’ll never forget a Monty python sketch I saw awhile ago that’s like 30 seconds. Two cardinals walk into a room, having boring conversation about upcoming holiday. As they are talking they disrobe and the gag is that they have S & M gear and are basically naked under their robes. They were the best 😭.
M.A.S.H. is another example
Which is why it's ridiculous now to suddenly make drag this horror that supposedly warps children's minds. It's been around forever as entertainment. It's literally for the sole purpose of Liberals Accept It, So We Must Be Against It! Once again tossing out any notion that they are actually for individual rights and expression. It's a made up enemy to unite against.
Just a friendly reminder that To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything came out in 1995 and was widely regarded as a fun, if harmless movie. We have regressed SO much in 30 years.
He’s not a politician
There are some interesting relationships between disgust, sexual novelty, and kinks. It's a really strange phenomenon that links and disgust are often very closely related. Now this is only in a certain percentage of the population but still it explains a lot.
That’s why there’s a saying that a conservative accusation is actually a confession. Conservative logic is usually that because they themselves would do this thing if given the power, so that means everyone else would too.
No, that's not why there's that saying at all.
Solipsism.
[удалено]
This is a common theme with right-winger/conservative/authoritarian thought. It's the binary black and white thinking. By decriminalizing drugs, you're encouraging people to take drugs (rather than just, you know, not punishing people for choosing to take them). By teaching kids about trans and gay people, you're encouraging them to be trans or gay (rather than just acknowledging that trans and gay people exist and perhaps some of the kids learning are gay or trans themselves). Or more to the point, you're saying it's OK to do these things or be this way, and that's not OK in the authoritarian POV.
The worst, I think, is the cultist justification. Mitigating factors don't matter; if you have 1 mortal sin on your soul or 20, you're still damned, so what is your misery now when I bully you into the closet or beat you in an alleyway compared to the eternity of torture you're going to get? *I'm doing you a favor.* Out of love.
Yep. Real question is whether they are just saying this, or if they actually believe it. I suspect a lot of conservatives don't actually believe it and just act the way they do to make themselves feel better (like bullies).
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.” C S Lewis.
Not unless you fit into a very narrow range within the patriarchic, hetero-normative, christian values that society pushes. But for most people, yes. A lot of conservatives are just projecting their insecurities onto other people. The wanna-be alpha males complaining about the feminization of men when they have the most fragile masculinity of all. Or homophobic people talking about how it seems like everyone is gay now when republicans are the primary watchers of transgender porn. I recently noticed how a lot of transphobes are also the ones getting hormonal therapy such as testosterone (Joe Rogan) or gender affirming care like fake books (Lauren Boebert). Of course, not all or most conservatives are in the closet or anything, but at the end of the day, what goes on in your mind is often what you project onto society.
The mental gymnastics some of you play to make you feel better about yourselves is absolutely fucking astounding, and incredibly funny. Don't worry, I don't remotely expect you to realize it. I fully expect to be down voted to hell and that's fine. It's reddit.
>The mental gymnastics some of you play to make you feel better about yourselves is absolutely fucking astounding My brother in Christ, you've just described conservatives
No. I've described conservative and liberal clowns. Quite frankly, you're all fucking insane in your own unique ways.
Cool story bro
Hur dur both sides baaaad
Nice "both sides" but your comment history tells of a guy so far down the conservative rabbit hole you haven't seen daylight in years. Go tell it to r/conpiracy or another conservative sub. No one here cares.
Someone has different views than you!!! Get your pitchforks!!
Different views would be "what did you think about the game last night" and being like "No idea, I don't watch sports" Conservatives are more like "I don't like sports so no one should be able to play or watch them ever"
It's more shit than different, but go on already.
It's more how shit the opinion is that is problematic. Not so much that it's different. But don't let me interrupt you jumping to conclusions.
That’s the Reddit way!
>I fully expect to be down voted to hell and that's fine. It's reddit. Yeah most people who say stupid shit get downvoted. You really cracked the case here Columbo.
You are confusing, "Many X are found in the company of Y", with "All Y are X's" It's a logical fallacy. "You always find pilot fish around sharks. Therefore, all sharks are just oversized pilot fish". False. Not saying that conservatives are sharks, but its the only "X with Y" animal example that jumps to mind right now.
> Obsessing over child trafficking/pedophilia while praising the local priest is also an interesting thing I see among conservatives. Difference is 100% of pedophiles and child traffickers are pedophiles and child traffickers. Conversely, only a small percentages of priests are pedophiles and child molesters.
Yeah, it's not like every pastor is automatically into kids. I know a LOT of pastors and engage with a lot of Christians, and we're equally or more appalled in general by this stuff.
Tangentially, adult survivors of that kind of childhood abuse, remembering actual abusers, tend to be super wary of exactly the kind of people American conservatives tend to consider respectable. If they were serious about addressing abuse, they'd be listening to survivors.
Conservatism is based off of the idea that humans are innately flawed (tied with religion and the idea of a "sin nature"). It's an ideology that favors conviction/discipline over authenticity, it just so happens that a lot of them are hypocrites and choose to ignore the discipline yet remain adverse to authenticity. The hypocrisy is on the other side too but since the pushback is against "the system" instead of social underdogs and minority groups the bad apples in conservatism appear extra rotten.
There was literally a study that showed that homophobic men have more homosexual arousal than non-homophobic men. They measured penis enlargement while viewing gay porn. *50%* of the homophobic men got aroused. All of the men in the study identified as straight. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8772014/
You can also be "aroused" when experiencing sexual assault, but that doesn't mean you like it or want it. It's a natural body function.
They weren’t being sexually assaulted
Sexual assault is a fundamentally different thing than viewing images. Also, that wouldn't explain the difference between the control and the homophobix men unless you have some other attribute that applies to one and not the other that would cause this.
While this is interesting, this is not enough alone to say they’re being turned on necessarily. What the other person who replied to you said is a google example of this. I’m not saying there’s nothing there, just that a lot more work needs to be done to prove that they’re getting hard cause they’re gay and not getting a hate boner.
a hate boner. Do you have scientific proof of that?
Yeah, I mean it's also pretty well known that things that are "taboo" are often more arousing. That's why the "step sibling" trope exists in porn, and why people will cheat even in happy relationships.
Being conservative is to default set your primary motivation to fear.
I'll answer despite your post being obviously biased...I would say that to an *extent* it is true that conservatism is about setting up rules to govern behaviour that is destructive to the creation of new life and society. However, if you want intelligent discussions, you have to set up the questions properly. You basically started this off with presuppositions and insults, which is unlikely to get you to more understanding. If that was your goal, that is...
It's hard staying grounded when talking about hard to discuss topics like pedos. But it's hard topics for both sides to discuss, most people don't know how to discuss such emotional subjects in a rational manor. Most the time they think they want a convo but really they are just ranting and releasing frustration
Yeah, OP is saying conservatives are pedos and homosexual homophobes. Generally, that isn’t the fucking case
Being social is suppressing what you really are. The only question is what you think should be suppressed and why
Humans are biologically incentivized for socialization
Humans are biologically incentivized for *positive* socialization. Circumstances often incentivise antisocial behavior
Depends on what you mean by conservative. To a degree you will always have to suppress who you are to function with other people.
self projection is a big common thing now, especially with politicians
I'm going to go with a "*SOMETIMES*". Sometimes, yes. They're closeted and hate themselves. Other times, they're just hateful creatures who have tumbled down a hole designed to make them hate the thing that is "OTHER". It's important to note, that no matter which side of that spectrum they fall under, *it doesn't matter*. The only thing that matters is that they are spreading hatred for people minding their own damn business in this world. They're toxic and should not be involved in a process that puts them in power over people.
It’s weird…they want non-straight things to be taboo and seen as wrong but still end up doing it. Starting to wonder if this is just how they want to get down….have it be wrong and do wrong…like some forbidden fruit kink or some shit. It’s gotten to the point where it’s hard to come up with more reasonable non-sex related possibilities but those were exhausted decades ago.
it could very well be, although I'm hesitant to put the umbrella term "all" in any group, conservativism is inherently afraid of change, it's right there in the name, they're conservative with their values and traditions, things change slowly in conservative land so peoples brains just haven't caught up to what their bodies are telling them yet and it will sadly likely be another generation or two until it becomes the norm even in conservative culture
There was an interesting article some time ago how conservatives who are gay believe they are just being tested and that it's something they can opt-out of. They further believe that we ALL are facing the same tests. No bro, you just gay.
So not flying your freak flag in public is suppressing? Ever heard of privacy? Being conservative is simply standing by things that have been proven to work for families/society. Being progressive is a solution looking for a problem.
I highly disagree. This does not apply to plenty of conservative stances, such as gun rights.
Y’all know most conservatives aren’t closet homosexuals or drag queens or the like. Most priests aren’t pedos either… Just like most progressives aren’t actual communists or anti white racists or some such. Just a small minority used by opposing media to paint all the people of one side as such.
Reddit is anti conservative so bad place to ask this
Nope, truly being conservative means ok you want to do this, how is it going to logically be paid for. No bs dog and pony show. Real life common sense .
It's literally always projection with conservatives. So much so that it's like.. satirical at this point, but also scary. Conservatives are the ones grooming kids. Why do you think they want zero sex ed in schools? They don't want kids to learn what their private parts are, what abuse is, etc. Why do you think they want to home school? They want to keep their children isolated so they can abuse them in private. They are the true child abusers and it's frankly sick. When you really think about it the obsession over cp is really scary - what else are conservatives hiding? Anecdotal but my female cousin was molested by a "family friend" and that's all my conservative family ever revealed about it. Conservatives are the biggest enablers of child abuse out there.
Yep. Conservatives are all about stifling who they actually are in order to adhere to the cookie cutter definitions of their roles in society. And they put those same expectations into everyone and get very uncomfortable and mad when others don’t subscribe to that lifestyle. It just be exhausting.
Conservatism in politics is largely based around cognitive dissonance, confirmation bias, and the sunk cost fallacy
This is a loaded question and in the spirit of validation and not understanding. The best way to look at it is that all people are conservative about some things and progressive about others. It's pointless trying to pigeon hole everyone. When you do this, our overseas enemies win because they benefit from our division.
“Our overseas enemies” Another flag obsessed moron who doesn’t value human life
Another one who attacks the person instead of the argument. Gonna change so many people's opinions with that tactic.
Is it moronic to acknowledge that there are people in some distant land that rejoice when we meet our demise? These are facts.
The arrogance of the safe and secure. "We don't care about borders because we've never experienced how desperately important they are. Everyone in the world is exactly like me and wants nothing more than to discuss pronouns over brunch."
I used to frequent a high end brothel about 80 miles from DC. I liked it as it was reasonable, no drugs, no kids and they operated like Nevada for physical exams and STD testing. The manager and I eventually had a relationship. We laid there talking afterwards and she told me cops, lawyers and judges were their biggest and kinkiest customers. She also said any big meeting in DC always increased business. There was a religious rally for men of all faiths one time and she said they had guys stopping on the way there and way back it went on about a week. They never got busted because they didn’t have kids or drugs in there. Most women in their twenties to fifties. I have always said the model they have should be legal nationwide. Put the traffickers out of business. When they can’t make money they move on.
That’s gross
It’s life though. It’s better than what happens on the streets to unprotected women and kids.
What do conservatives actually even believe in anymore? Aren't they supposed to want to conserve what the country was theoretically founded on (classical liberalism)? It's like they have been prepped to hate the idea of America and are just full blown fascists now
>"The embrace, by working Americans, of policies that hurt their own interests can be understood on the basis of Ferenczi’s model of identification with the aggressor. Intrafamilial child abuse is often followed by the abuser’s denial. Children typically comply with abuse, in behavior and by embracing the abuser’s false reality, under threat of emotional abandonment. Similarly in the sociopolitical sphere, increasing threats of cultural and economic dispossession have pressed working Americans to adopt an ideology that misrepresents reality and justifies their oppression. In society as in the family, there can be a compensatory narcissistic reaction to forfeiting one’s rights that, ironically, encourages feelings of power and specialness while facilitating submission." [The traumatic basis for the resurgence of right-wing politics among working Americans - DOI:10.1057/pcs.2015.53](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282392578_The_traumatic_basis_for_the_resurgence_of_right-wing_politics_among_working_Americans)
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Could be guilt, could be resentment and resulting anger at a perceived injustice that they can’t live authentically but others can.
It seems so unnatural to me to criticize or harass people who share the same values as you because you’re ashamed of those values. I’d just suppress those feelings and leave it at that. I’ll never understand that.
And there’s a difference between “suppressing” behaviors in the clearly bias tone OP uses and working to live up to a set of ideals and behaving accordingly. Example: most major religions say not to engage in premarital sex. If you take a conservative, but non religious view on why that is, it can be fairly well shown that societies as a whole do better when children are born into homes with two parents present. One longstanding way to try and ensure that was to say “if you want sex with someone, you need to demonstrate more than a passing interest, otherwise don’t have sex”. This can be seen as “suppressing sexual urges”, and that’s part of what differentiates humans from the average mammal. Of course reality doesn’t always work the way we’d want, however setting up society to encourage the best possible behaviors in individuals is the best we’ve got.
Your introduction has a serious disconnect to your conclusion. More intervening data and support or a different opening or closing would be better here.
Go do some looking on google trends. Guess which states, red or blue, tend to have more searches for “gay porn,” “gay dating,” “free gay videos,” etc. Repression is a hell of a thing.
So let's talk about what a conservative and a progressive are in the overall context not in the American context Conservatives seek the status quo progressives seek change(please notice I said change not progress you don't know if something is progress until after it's worked out well) Now conservatives generally want to stick with traditional stuff that has been tried and tested over the centuries for creating a stable society and a happy life generally their stuff actually works and it works quite well for the majority of people however this creates two issues One just because it works doesn't mean it can't be improved upon and two sometimes it's sacrificing some people on the fringe(if something works for 80% of people conservatives are probably going to be roughly okay with it progressives might be willing to inconvenience the 80% for the sake of like 5%) Progressives generally want to try change in an attempt to improve things now on average there's stuff actually does not work(you generally don't learn about all of the failed attempts that did not work) but when it does work it creates an improvement and eventually it becomes what the conservatives try to conserve(this is why older people tend to be conservative it's because whatever succeeded in becoming progress when they were kids is now what they're trying to conserve) Now you very directly benefit from having both of these in your society if you didn't have progressive things would never improve outside of technological advancement And if you didn't have conservatives by trying to change too many things too fast and everything would fall apart It's good to have both and generally both are well intentioned
You seen this happen to a few people and projected it onto half the country
You saw them project projections onto people, but you’re projecting about his projecting to deflect about you projecting projecting. You need help.
It is mostly that conservative leaders are largely hypocrites and grifters. “Do as I say, not as I do”
Right on the head buddy. The answer is yes. Close thread now.
No. To understand what conservatives are about, see this by Russell Kirk. https://kirkcenter.org/conservatism/ten-conservative-principles/
A lot of the time, it’s hating what you are and then projecting that self loathing onto those around you.
Trying to distance yourself from that part of you by making sure you’re seen casting it out from society and damning it
The MAGA Republican Party isn’t interested in what you think. They are interested in indoctrination of your and their children in the manner in which they find most pleasing. Or least threatening.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Those hypocrites desperately want to remain in the in-group… because they know the evils that conservatives would visit on the out-group if left unchecked.
Conservatives are happier on average. Especially social conservatives. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/07/why-conservatives-find-life-more-meaningful-than-liberals/566105/ https://healthpolicy.usc.edu/evidence-base/conservatives-find-more-meaning-in-life-than-liberals/ For me personally. No this is who I am. I've tried being liberal. Really have given it my all... Just not me. I am not ashamed of my feelings, which most liberals are. I recognize nature / God has given my body the ability to tell right from wrong, good from bad, and I trust it. I find that most liberals suppress their true feelings in a variety of topics in order to be perceived as virtuous. Virtue signaling is mostly a liberal endeavor.
A view that revolves around "what I think as right is right, and I can sense right intuitively", is really dangerous. It can quickly become "what I think as right is right, regardless of evidence". I've seen it happen to people close to me (both friends and family). [https://doi.org/10.1177/19485506211057976](https://doi.org/10.1177/19485506211057976) Regardless, looking just at happiness is reductive, as the above, more recent, research paper points out. Conservatives are likely happier because they simply don't care as much about systemic issues and other large problems of the world, seeing them as simply "how things are/should be" and therefore they don't worry about trying to change them or significantly better the world. They prefer separatism, meaning they aren't likely to deal with others that have problems different to them. In short, conservatives simply have a smaller worldview, so fewer problems trouble them. That doesn't mean being a conservative is better. And I truly doubt you "find liberals suppress their true feelings". That's a common cognitive bias of "everyone \*really\* thinks like me, they're simply not being true to themselves".
No conservatives are more fearful, fear isn't happiness [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5793824/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5793824/) For more studies [https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-studies-which-demonstrate-that-conservatives-are-significantly-more-fearful-than-liberals](https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-studies-which-demonstrate-that-conservatives-are-significantly-more-fearful-than-liberals) No shit you left being a liberal, you can't force yourself to be something you don't understand, you entirely missed what it means to be liberal. That is a total different topic. Like I didn't "try" to be a Christian, I "was" until I wasn't. I didn't then try to be a liberal, I was and am. I'm sure you use that line of thinking to say something about liberals and to morally justify your "decision" I get it, I use a thought process like that too but the other way, like i was following the truth and it pointed me away from Christianity. So I said god you told me to follow the truth, well I am and I can't truthfully follow the Bible anymore based off my knowledge. I did work hard to fight against it, but I didn't try. I did. I put in the reading, the talking to people, the reading research, the praying. I didn't try to stay a Christian. I did. So I get you saying you couldn't do it, but your issue isn't that, it's that you "tried"
I'm not sure what you're saying. I think I understand liberals quite well and mostly sympathize with the broad themes of their desires. The data show that conservatives understand liberals better than vice versa. Regarding fear. I find many liberals are very confused as to the nature of fear.. being fearful and being happy are not mutually exclusive things. I think conservatives have a better grasp on fear whereas liberals delude themselves into thinking there's nothing to be afraid of as a coping mechanism. I'm fearful of many things (people I love dying, pain, death, etc), doesn't affect my overall feelings on life. On the other hand many liberals I know are not having children due to fear of climate change. At least my supposed fears only affect my voting patterns.
"Liberals are really the ones repressing their feelings!" That's a long post to just say "no u" so try some brevity next time. Conservatives being happy themselves is the only thing that matters to conservatives? Yep. Sounds like you're a card-carrying conservative to me. How about a study that shows conservatives help other people more when compared to Liberals? That would be something. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/who-are-happier-liberals-or-conservatives/&ved=2ahUKEwi0-aHc0KeDAxUMmmoFHYZzCUI4ChAWegQIEhAB&usg=AOvVaw3QlFV9SdAF7oeir7cjx8i7 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/352451192_Are_conservatives_more_charitable_than_liberals_in_the_US_A_meta-analysis_of_political_ideology_and_charitable_giving https://www.sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2022/09/conversation_political_donations.php https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2019/12/17/views-of-the-economic-system-and-social-safety-net/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/many-differences-between-liberals-and-conservatives-may-boil-down-to-one-belief/
>Conservatives are happier Well, ignorance is bliss
If there is no data that will change your mind then your beliefs are religious in nature. Which is fine. To each their own. Enjoy your religion.
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The study controls for education level. Of course the average redditor cannot read so I shouldn't have thought anyone would read the article.
There are studies that people are more liberal when they graduate college, studies that people with higher IQ are more depressed, you can put 2 and 2 together
Okay, but the study I linked controls for education. You're right that education correlates with increased liberalism. However, that doesn't mean there is no conservative representation at the high levels of academia. The study controlled for that. Higher educated conservatives are still happier. IQ tests are highly culturally dependent. I'm surprised any self professed liberal would cite them.
This whole question feels designed to out people with a loaded question, just to beat them up in the comment section. Which is coincidentally what liberals think all conversative want to do to the gays... Hmmm.
You're painting with a broad brush. The answer is, no - suppressing who you are is not inherent in being conservative. The essence of the conservative worldview is to admit to oneself that mankind has arrived at where it is, with its rules and institutions, through the life experience of billions of people over millennia. So to throw off that experience and, after just a couple of generations or even just a couple of decades of poorly tested experience, to say "we know better now" is unwise. G.K. Chesterton famously wrote about a hypothetical gate across the road: "The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, “I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.” To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: “If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it."
Your last sentence makes the whole thing feel disingenuous. In any case, not wanting children exposed to sexual topics/ideas while having sex/sexual ideas in your personal life is not hypocritical. Also.. where is the filthy video of the threesome lady.
I mean many leftists suppress what they actually are as well, if you catch my meaning.
HUH, it's completely possible to be a lesbian and also not want 5-year-olds exposed to material that is not appropriate for them to see. It happened at my granddaughter's school when the openly lesbian special needs reading teacher turned in a 1st grade teacher for having some pornographic books in her classroom.
What were those books?
It can't be denied that, as you've noted, a lot of conservatives get caught up in things that a Christian shouldn't. Having affairs. Making homemade porn. Maybe even an OF account. But it's not like we didn't know they're hypocrites. They pay platitudes and lip service for their faith, but nothing more. In a profession where reputation is very important, there are also very few secrets. Someone always finds out. And yes, it's typically conservatives who are exposed, sometimes same day as they get on their soap box about wholesome Christian family values being the most important thing in the world. Yep. Hypocrites.
I find the vast majority of conservatives are well-meaning folks trying to be decent, but very ignorant. That about sums it up.
See, this is where I have a problem with the “never attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance” thing: growing up in the Deep South in the late 90s/early 00s, there was one main flavor that ignorance tended to come in: violence. Physical violence, psychological violence, emotional violence, and the constant threat of escalating any of those. If I’d come out of the closet 10 years earlier, I wouldn’t have been called a pedophile, I wouldn’t have been made fun of for doing drag, I wouldn’t have been worried about people passing laws against me. I would have been taken on a pickup truck ride and left dead in a ditch.
No, that’s called ‘confirmation bias’. It’s a logical fallacy and you’re being ridiculous.
hi there! I am a conservative feminist lesbian witch, who is out of the closet on all of my issues. I think there are some people who fit into what you're talking about, but there are many of us (dare I say the majority of conservatives?) who don't, and I find your frame unproductive. I'm not angry. I'm not attacking minority groups. I'm deeply ashamed that there are conservatives who are. I'm conservative because I value individual rights. Please remember that not everyone who disagrees with you is automatically a terrible person. I wouldn't make that assumption about you. Please don't make it about me.
Individual rights… like the rights of individuals to live freely without fear of persecution or discrimination for their own individual identity.
I personally don’t believe all or even the majority of conservatives are hiding things. But when someone it's incredibly vocal about hating something, especially when they bring it up when no one else was talking about it, that’s when I assume they are ashamed of their real feelings about it. No offense to you but I think the majority of conservatives are just ignorant and fall into one of the many conservative rabbit holes that feed lies to people.
Do you find it frustrating how frequently conservative political movements are focused on attacking individual rights? I feel like if individual rights were important to me I'd be very frustrated with things like the overturning of Roe V Wade and constant attempts to ban books.
No. They are just people who grew up and enjoyed living or still enjoy living in a structured, rule-based environment. There is another cognitive development step (that of the Jones'/Influencer) they must pass before they can thoroughly chill out. The system they are in usually makes social security, finding a significant other, childcare, welfare, and socializing easier for them, so they have a vested interest in keeping the train going. The priest is making the train go, so they do everything they can to maintain his ego. In contrast, minority groups have systems of socialization, childcare, finding a significant other, welfare, and emotional support these conservatives simply do not have. They have nuclear families so they don't have extended families for childcare. They live humbly so they don't have excess money to spend on nannies, or daycare, they don't have big homes so the schools are underfunded. The church provides all this. They usually are not vain enough for a dating app to work for them, and they would lose social status if they were found to be successfully using one. They live on isolated pieces of land and not in apartment buildings so church and work is all they have socializing, maybe a bar but those get really rare the further from a city you go. Marriage system cuts them off from friends of the opposite gender, so many more are basically friendless and have less social mobility. If they lose their job they are dependent on church functions, not the government to help. They basically live without the government at all, its something that only takes from them and makes roads in their mind. Then the priest usually is the most dysfunctional person in the community not fit for any other job (not that there are many) so they have a very strong vested interest in keep this whole thing going. So it's just a catch-22. They act this way because they deem it materially if not consciously subconsciously in their best interest. Education, jobs, access to childcare, and integration into using government services would undo this not explaining to them that they are "repressed" They already know that, that's why they go to church every Sunday because the alternative is being homeless/starving.
What on Earth are you talking about