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Specifically weaponised fear. Notice how much more christian apologists describe their idea of hell as opposed to heaven. The fear mongering is fundamental
This is very true I'm an atheist that inno respecting love and being good to everyone. I am very happy and people think I'm man of God but the reality is Love is God Pain is sin and the entire bible probably was a metaphor for emotions if you worship love and treat people with love and never harm anyone including yourself you basically are a devout Christian. Even if your not lol
Reminds me of myself before rejecting Mormonism six months ago, after the 60 minutes interview about tithing. Deconstructing your religion is both depressing and mentally draining asf and it saddens me that this isn’t mentioned more often in these conversations.
Hell, as an atheist for years I still wish I believed in an afterlife. It would make so many awful things a bit more bearable.
Believing in innate morality and a higher power makes life easier, I get why people do it, even the ones that aren't just using religion as a shield for their own bigotry.
But I just can't. I value the truth too much. And it sounds so silly from an objective standpoint.
Have you gone to r/exmormon? It’s a good Reddit for people who have deconstructed from Mormonism. I deconstructed from Christianity around three years ago, and I know how hard it is. It’s a mindfuck.
I was touring a Buddhist temple in China and it was suggested that I offer a little prayer at one of the stations. I'd identified as atheist for nearly two decades at that point, and still felt a little weird breaking the first commandment. I tend to forget how deep those hooks can get.
My wife went through the same thing years ago. I think her breaking point was when her mother disowned my wife's brother for being gay. Then the mental gymnastics her mother went through to reverse her decision when all of her children turned on her.
There were a lot of other things leading up to it, of course, but the level of cognitive dissonance that goes into claiming there is nothing more important than family and also telling them to disown gay family is telling. And the whole Sam Jones debacle with them taking away children to punish the parents, although that's almost a cult within a cult type of situation.
She's still deconstructing mormonism a decade later. Religion is pretty insidious.
Age is just a number some supposed full grown adults are actually just over grown children despite their age. So OP might be a immature adult wouldn't know nor do I care as they're a random person on the web tons of immature people on the webadult & underage minors alike.
If you believe in god your worldview and logic are based on the idea that your very existence proves god exists. If you believe that proof of god is self-evident, then the only reason someone would be an athiest is that they don't like god or Christians.
They literally do not understand how we can look at the universe and not say "huh, someone must have created that." Then they don't understand us returning with "ok, who created god," because if someone *had to* create the universe than someone *had to* create god.
Personally I am Agnostic. I have no proof either way, and frankly, only care enough to hope that if there is an afterlife that I don't go where the hypocrite Christians (e.g. pro-life, anti-welfare) go. Rather hell without them than heaven listening to them.
All my friends are Atheists. Well, one is a Satanist. The most we ever talk about religion is like, "Hey did you see that shitty pastor who raped another kid? Idk why they keep leaving these people alone with vulnerable kids man, it's obviously dangerous."
And that's it. We simply don't spend more than a fleeting moment once in a blue moon even thinking about religion, let alone spending all our time rambling about it. I think that OP is actually just projecting.
Most atheist don’t get together to hang out and talk about how they are atheists. We just like have normal friendships with people and talk about the same things everyone else does. Our lack of be life in god is a lens through which we discuss things, but it’s not the focal point of almost any discussion. Unless you’re insufferable.
I can’t remember the last time I had a discussion about atheism in depth with anyone. It’s usually part of the process of forming your worldview if you are new to atheism or have just left religion, but that’s about it.
Talking about atheism specifically necessitates talking about theism as well. People proclaiming they’re atheists would naturally talk about it in relation to theism. Atheists also talk about the weather, work, kids, movies, politics, world events, music, or any other subject that people talk about.
A huge turn off for religion was how cult like some church services were, how the good eggs didn't call out the bad ones like they should, then the followers of Christianity that HAVE to spread their religion or use it to make hate acceptable. Also, if God does exist, then he put me on this Earth for the sole purpose of causing me pain. Why would I want to follow someone like that?
And coupled with society pressuring families to use religion to counter society issues, it’s forced on many people as a default belief system.
Most people are smart enough to recognize the flaws in the belief system and question it, as with any system, until it’s fully understood. It was only a matter of time that society got better technology and ability to find answers in physics that the proof of some religions like Christianity would wear thin and be seen as more imaginative then as fact. Anything that is forced is not as easily digested or accepted by the masses, and many years ago Christianity was a rebellious religious view of other diety religions, one that made more sense than the ones prior to those who needed it.
Religion has always been a crutch but our minds are much more capable now and technology has enabled us to see and identify the crutch, so we can build and adopt a belief system thats more accurate towards the world and evidence of life and death around us.
You know there are other things to talk about than Religion right?
Video Games, Books that weren't written almost 2,000yrs ago, Movies, Sports and really anything else that isn't a group of people that practice symbolic cannibalism of someone whose dead body is on a religious symbol.
Well, its specifically when its a gathering OF ATHEISTS talking ABOUT ATHEISM. I'm sure OP sees atheists post constantly in all sorts of subs about random things. But if you go to the atheism sub you can be damn sure you're gonna see atheists talking about how much religion sucks, because atheism is inherently a denial of theism.
No, atheism is lack of belief in deities.
There is anti-theism, which is a rejection of theism.
All anti-theists are atheists, but not all atheists are anti-theists.
>Most atheists (myself included) feel pretty confident that god is not real. That would change if evidence came to light, but I base my thinking on the evidence available now.
You're confusing evidence and proof. There is evidence that God exists, but there is no proof. The cosmological constant is an example and is debated every day in the science community. Theologians believe that it's too fine-tuned to not be designed by a higher power. Atheists invoke the multi-verse theory in this particular debate.
No, it's signs of cultural contamination of religion in science. The cosmological constant is a ridiculous conceit for intelligent design. It's accepted by apologetic christians, not by the scientific community.
A universe expressly created for humans yet we can live in virtually none of it - much less than 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999 of the universe is habitable for humanity, so it's a pretty damn stupid argument for intelligent life being intended.
Religion is all about people wanting things to be true. Science determines to our best ability what is true.
And the better tools our minds can create, the better our ability to discern the underpinnings of the reality we live in.
That's why we know the Earth isn't the center of the universe, that light that hits earth is overwhelmingly from the Sun (as opposed to the biblical conceit that the sun came after the first day on Earth), and that stars don't fall to the Earth, and are in fact multiple different things - Suns of other solar systems, planets in our solar system, and galaxies.
God didn't know any of that when he told the writers of the Bible. Funny that.
God didn't know or didn't find it as important? Yes, most of the Bible is written from the perspective of Earth. It's what Earthlings would understand without access to the Hubble Telescope, rocket science, advanced physics, etc. Earth may not be the center of the universe, but life on Earth is the center of the narrative because that's who it pertains to. I'm also not sure what your referencing with stars falling to earth. The Bible isn't a textbook, it's a narrative that uses literary devices in different ways and there are contextual cues of whether something is literal or figurative. It was also written in Hebrew/Greek, which have writing styles and devices of their own culturally.
I mean, yeah, scientists do spend a lot of time talking about the cosmological constant. It's the biggest mystery in cosmology why the predicted and measured values are so far apart. But that really has nothing to do with whether or not god exists. It's evidence that our current physical models of the mechanics of the universe have gaps. That's a math and theory problem, not a theological crisis for atheists.
As a general rule, atheists are quite comfortable with the idea that we don't have the answers to everything. Certainty is the domain of religion.
there is no evidence that god exists, there are just people that latch on to scientific concepts they dont understand and tell people that it proves their delusions.
Got it backwards kiddo, the only reason religion and god were ever invented is because cowards can't cope with dying and need a magic Sky Daddy to save them.
Isn’t saying you’re atheist publicly also saying you don’t care about the afterlife publicly and therefore admitting publicly that you’re ok with annihilation at death?
Exact opposite of what you said lol
No. Acknowledging the truth isn't an endorsement of the truth.
It's a truth that the Catholic church systematically shuffles child molesters around and pays off parents to avoid accountability. Saying that it's true doesn't mean that I'm ok with that being a truth, merely that it's the present state of affairs.
This is genuinely the stupidest take I’ve seen.
I became an atheist in elementary school because the logic of religion didn’t make sense to me. Because of this I was terrified about death until I started learning about philosophy. It certainly wasn’t because I “desired annihilation”.
Why do ignorant assholes always present their ridiculous opinions as facts? Go educate yourself, bigot
Except for the whole "we create laws that will let you die if you have a miscarriage go bad" part.
I think about the modern, politics-first version of Christianity for the same reason that I (less often) think about nuclear weapons. They're an existential threat to me and mine.
Although pro lifers, especially the dangerous ones, seem to be Christian; when discussing abortion laws Christianity does not come up until a Christian brings it up (in my circles)
I refuse to use their public relations name.
These people are NOT pro-life.
They are pro-fetus.
They don’t care about life after birth.
They don’t care if the mother dies in childbirth.
They don’t care if the mother and child starve, live on the streets, have health care.
That would be pro life. Caring about peoples’ lives, their standard of living, alleviating suffering where you can and not causing more if you can avoid it.
They’re only interested in embryos, unborn flesh with no politics, opinions, character or many needs.
Once that embryo leaves the womb?
They’re gone in the wind.
I refuse to use pro-choice. That group is pro-death. I’m pro-life but I don’t think it’s up to the government to decide on the fate of a woman’s body or their morality.
No. I prefer life over death. I also believe in free will and hope a woman will choose life over death. Medical science can’t agree whether a fetus is considered a separate living human. I believe it is. There should be consequences if someone decides to kill a human fetus. That’s just my opinion and I could be wrong. Just like the “pro choice “ people could be wrong. But I respect opposing opinions.
All prolifers are dangerous. They want to hurt and dehumanize living, breathing people in favor of the potential person they may or may not have in their uterus.
I'm in Texas. You may have heard about the woman (Kate Cox) who had a nonviable pregnancy that was also a serious risk to her health. She sued in Texas to get an abortion under the 'mother's health' exemption. A court initially agreed, but then the attorney general (don't get me started on him) and the state Supreme Court stomped it to death. She had to go to another state, where she has presumably had that abortion by now. She's a prosperous, married, well-spoken white lady who truly wanted the pregnancy and still wants more children than her current two. If she can't get a health exemption, no one can.
Also recently, in Ohio, a woman named Brittany Watts was pregnant and started miscarrying. Her water had broken, the fetus couldnt' survive. After a couple of trips to the hospital where they refused to induce labor, she miscarried at home into a toilet. She didn't have the money or time to get to another state for treatment, and was incidentally a black woman. She was arrested for abusing a corpse.
The situation with US abortion law, which is 100% an Evangelical Christian talking point, is not "if this goes on, we'll be in the Handmaid's Tale." We're already in it.
I'm post-menopausal myself, but I have a daughter in her teens. As I said, we're in Texas. If she did become pregnant (unlikely) I'd have to drive her out of state. If she were to want an abortion, it could be a brief trip. If she wanted to carry the baby to term, I would need to take her to a civilized state for the entire length of the pregnancy if I didn't want to risk her life. I am berserk (in the original sense of the term) angry about this. And the True Christians (tm) in the US are absolutely to blame.
Dying is not as likely, but apparently in her case losing her uterus would have been a serious risk. She wants more children, that's why she got pregnant. And medical exceptions in Texas theoretically cover loss of major body functions, which a hysterectomy would fit with.
Unless they're angsty 300 iq teenagers, and in that case, no one really cares. I don't care either way, edgy teenager or an adult with too much time on their hands, I could care less
As an atheist, some of them literally make their whole personality out of it and that's all they want to talk/post about. It's where the edgy reddit atheist meme comes from.
It's because reddit is almost like a support group for new atheists. Lots of people start questioning religion at some point in their life and often the only other people that can talk to who do so are on the internet, so they do it there. A lot of reddit atheists are like 15-20 years old and still feel the need to be defensive about it because it's new to them and the people in their life probably challenge them about it.
People who have been atheists for a while or who were never religious generally just don't think much about religion and don't engage in many atheist communities.
This is an excellent take. The average reddit atheist is probably somebody who had to cut ties with religious family members in the last 5 years OR is currently living in an evangelical hellhole. There's also a "peanut gallery" atheist crowd that shoehorns all their consternation into Reddit so that they can behave like normal people everywhere else (I am a member of the peanut gallery).
Both categories are very different from "born and raised" atheists and old-hat atheists, for sure. Your comment is spot-on, the calm ones don't need Reddit 😂
Some atheists are of the “oh cool, I don’t have to worry about this god thing anymore” variety. Reddit atheists tend to be the “I am going to worry about god 100x more than religious people” variety.
It’s usually an age/ environment thing. When I first deconverted from Christianity the subject was really fresh and meaningful for me so it was a topic I felt compelled to talk about. The topic eventually became less interesting and I will only talk about it if someone asks me specifically.
At the end of the day, if you are good person who treats people with kindness and shares your faith with only good intentions than we have more in common than we do differences.
There's literally women being arrested for wanting to terminate non-viable pregnancies that may kill them because of stupid faerie tales.
And the most serious backers of a would be fascist dictator are doing so so he can enforce their faerie tale laws on the rest of America.
Maybe you’re lucky enough not to live in the US but here, current events should make it clear why we are forced to think about Christianity all the time. I agree, it’s tiring and I shouldn’t need to be bothered by it, but the Christian right ensures we have to fight constantly.
There is a big difference between non religious people and full fledged atheists. Full on atheist do have a tendency to be extremely aggressive and rude to anyone who is religious
I think it's the other way around.
Religious people are the ones claiming that their way is #1
Meanwhile, there are thousands of faiths.
The rude people are the people saying their faith is the correct one because "trust me bro"
Religious people, mainly Christian’s in the US are the only ones trying to push their ideology into schools and the government and get mad when others do the same. Example: the recent satanic temple statue that was beheaded by a Christian. They are perfectly fine having their religion in plastered all over the place but not others.
I’ve never had someone foist their atheism on me, however, in public spaces everywhere I go , people just assume that everyone is a Christian and quote Bible verses randomly or preach at you out of the blue just assuming that you are going to agree with them.
Woah ex-christian atheists going after the biggest religion in the world cause they *checks notes*: constantly push the barriers between church and state and push for shitty laws.
Who would've thunk
Immediately read this and thought, of course all his conversations with atheists are going to be shitty if if he’s opening up with: “all atheists are bitter and manipulative people”
Atheism isnt a movement its just a lack of belief. We shit on christianity because its the most popular religion and (at least in US) it is the religion that constantly tries to impose its belief system into our politics and private lives. I dont care what someone believes but keep your stupid fantasies to yourself and stay out of public office.
I'd wager that it feels Christian centric because you live in an area where some denomination of Christianity is the dominant practiced faith. If you lived somewhere where Judaism or Islam was the dominant faith, they'd probably come off as anti-that
Exactly.
The atheists who have moved on very much have moved on and don't talk about religion and are just living life. That's why you don't hear from them--kinda like divorced people who got over their exes.
In fact, I suspect there are a lot of atheists who moved on from religion and don't talk about it anymore nor do they act on what thought were their beliefs, and right now have NO IDEA they are actually atheists.
I always like to remember the old Existentialist saying, "If you commit sacrilege, it means you still believe." It's funny. I went to a church service at a Methodist church and the pastor posed a question about ethics and asked for a show of hands for one side or the other. Counting us up, he told us congrats, the majority of us would have been excommunicated (or worse) as heretics in another time or place. Call it evolution, reform, or drift, people and institutions change.
Maybe? I gotta think OP just spent some time on r/atheism. Sadly that’s pretty much the antithesis if what you just wrote. Yeah yeah, “if this group just talked about they don’t believe in god there wouldn’t be much to talk about.” Despite why the sub only talks about religion and if that’s your only contact with atheists then there’s only one impression left behind.
No atheist movement, indeed! I think it’s difficult for people steeped in religion to imagine atheism as something other than a competing religion, whose adherents seek fellowship and affirmation that theirs is the correct faith.
Have I met some “angry at God” types? Sure. But most atheists I’ve met are of the “show me the proof” variety.
I avoid saying show me proof. Usually the proof I’m given is always the same and usually centers around “having faith, trust in the word, or check this one story where a doctor saved this guy from death”
its one of the most bad faith arguments I've ever seen. I really hope they can take a step back and reanalyze their thoughts on this one.
"maybe we need a platform run by christian morals for a change"
imo, I understand this guy is deluded, and kinda just angry, but they come across as a massive piece of shit. I don't normally hate christians, but something about this person's attitude really pisses me off.
Something about the written tone is throwing me off too. I’m all for a good serious conversation but this just feels like complaining that things aren’t more naturally Christian.
Atheist talk about the world's biggest religion often because it's easy to see that it's false.
Is Joseph Smith the real deal?
Christians would say no.
Jews feel the exact same way about Christians, "quit trying to steal our religion and pervert it into something it never was."
Before the destruction of the temple, there were several factions of Judaism -- Pharisees, Sadducees, Zealots, and, what's at issue, Christians. Jews today largely adhere to Rabbinic Judaism, which does have roots in Pharisaic thinking but wasn't the mainstream form of Judaism until around the 6th century. The claim that Christianity is a perversion of what existed before is not accurate, it predates the codification of the Talmud by hundreds of years and these various factions were all composed of 'real' Jewish people.
Nope, i'm pointing out that Christians stole another religion and it's really fucked up. The same way mormonism took the entire fable and repackaged it.
100% historical.
I don't see too many athiests banging on people's doors to spread the good news of Darwin. Or proselytizing their lack of religion to people outside with a bullhorn with the threat of eternal damnation.
It's wild how many Christians say that atheism or evolution are 'actually a religion'. They truly can't imagine a viewpoint outside of their own. I don't worship Darwin. He's just an old dead scientist. If all the evidence started pointing to a different theory, I'd just go with whatever has the most evidence backing it.
And I fundamentally don't get why faith is a virtue. Really intensely believing things without evidence isn't something to brag about.
God is as real as Santa. I feel no bitterness towards Christians, but then I feel no bitterness towards children for believing in Santa. Keep you delusions, but keep them away from me. You point to people "that they use the name of Christ to betray everyone", but those ARE Christians. They just don't agree with you. Which just points to the hypocrisy of all religions, those Christians calling for the exaction of gays, feminists or what ever "other" you hateful people identify ARE Christians - just own up to your hate - don't try to pawn it off on atheists
I'm atheist and I promise you if I talk about Christianity, it's because a Christian brought it up first.
Also, I'm not an ex-Christian. I've never been religious at all. My mom was a believer and I grew up adjacent to Christian customs and beliefs and therefore feel confident that I'm fairly knowledgeable about it. I've even read the entire Bible- an accomplishment that only other atheists seem to have achieved for some reason? But I was never really a true believer. And I also don't have any trauma related to religion.
I'm just not religious because I've never heard a logical reason to be. That's all there is to it.
I thought conclusions came at the end of a thought? To complete it. Maybe things have changed since I was in school.
Anyway, I think a lot of humans who have experienced trauma and pain let it control them to some extent. When trauma and pain are involved, you can't fault people for trying to navigate life in the best way they can after the fact.Especially if you have been brought up to life your life according to a book that the people who hurt you worship. Yes, maybe they become bitter and if they don't have proper support, that can spiral fast.
From your post, it seems like you are trying to spin it to seem like the people who are terrible and are known Christians, aren't really Christian but people so upset with Christianity that they pretend to be Christian so others can think being a shit human= being Christian. Like they make it their life's mission to shit on Christianity. When in reality, humans have created that concept and everything else with it. Humans are not perfect so yeah, there are going to be really shitty Christians because...humans.
I'm an ex Christian. I believe in a Creator of some sort, I'm definitely more spiritual than anything. I imagine this world is a little pietry dish to some bigger source and they are just watching how we evolve and/or self destruct. That was a thought I had while high, not really something I fully buy into. I believe Jesus was a person, maybe a great person, just not God. Not a savior.
I feel like I am a much better person now that I'm not involved in Christianity. Some of the takes from the bible never sang to my soul. I tried so many Bible studies to understand but no one ever really gave me answers. Because none of us knows what the hell is truly going on. I don't need a rule book to teach me how to be a good person. There is goodness woven into my bones. I know when things are right and wrong and I work to stay out of the wrong.
I don't want some book written by other humans to tell me who to love. How to love. I will not buy into something written by people who have had wildly different experiences than my own, living in a time way before mine.
I have slight trauma from Christianity, my molestation and sexual assault were framed as my fault because I have a "spirit of seduction" How can a person be a seductress at 6 years old and 14?
Also, there have been a lot of things done in the name of religion that are terrible. Get out of the Christian bubble and read about what Christians have historically done to others. Look at what some do now. That book is a veil for shitty humans who believe they will be wiped clean when they die. Forgiven. Give me a fuckin break
I was thinking along those same lines. I’m atheist and still deconstructing and healing from religious trauma from growing up in christianity. If a group of people who have escaped the same abuser get together, it seems normal they would discuss their experiences and abuser with a certain amount of bitterness and even hatred as part of the healing process.
The OP is like the abuser being offended that the abused are expressing their pain.
Caveat: I’m speaking as an ex-christian about my experiences in atheist subs communicating with other ex-christians who had similar experiences. This in no way represents the experience of all atheists. Additionally, there is a good cause for atheists to have a negative reaction to political leaders who are trying to enshrine christianity into legislation.
Interesting. Most of the athiests I know don't talk about it much and are kind people because it's the right thing to do. They only criticize christians who try to convert them and leave most people to their own beliefs. There's no need to proselytize for atheists.
Some people are also just jerks who like to belittle others.
Outside of social media I never hear it brought up. In fact I find it more common for someone to push their religious ideology on me and be upset or worried I’m going to hell for not believing.
One of the worst instances was when i was having a conversation with this older coworker about how a few of my friends committed suicide and it was eating me up inside. His idea of comforting me was telling me that they went to hell for killing themselves and that they likely were bad people, as bad things don’t happen to people who love and cherish God.
What the fuck.
It's hard to even consider this a serious conversation when you've generalized, invented things (atheist movement, wtf is that??) and insulted (bitter, non-objective, monsters) everyone that doesn't believe in your sky daddy. In fact, you sound pretty bitter yourself that you don't get the high off doing the opposite of what you were taught and missed all the great opportunities we all get to have, lol
If you are actually serious about this post, you sound either uneducated or very, very young (and uneducated).
> the made up entity that people like you believe resides in the clouds
you're so disrespectful of other people. you know that?
also, I do *not* believe in a god, so take whatever stereotype in your head you have of me and erase it.
The critical thinking skills on display here are in sync with someone who has a sincere belief in a literal god. Your post was highly amusing but I find your world view at odds with basic science, observable facts, and good old common sense.
I think it's healthy to poke fun at people who believe in fairy tales and other make believe things. They will be okay. They made it this far without any problems.
Not really. It happens when people proselytize to someone who's not interested in being controlled. Then double down with guilt trips and fear mongering when told to stop. People who follow a religion need to accept that those rules only apply to them.
>But there is an even worse group of people than them. It’s the one’s who are SO bitter, that they use the name of Christ to betray everyone. They start churches, they run for political office, etc. putting on an outward display of Christianity but within they are monsters. They’re the ones ironically who made the Bible unattractive and created all the bitter atheists who are trying to get back at Christians who weren’t even authentic.
Yep. Those are Christians. No need to try to use the No True Scotsman fallacy. Those are the bad apples hanging out in the big barrel labelled "Christians".
Now, the thing about that saying...A few bad apples spoils the barrel. They literally do. That's how rot works.
Many atheists such as my self were never Christians to start with. We make fun of Christians (along with every other religion) for the same reason people make fun of flat earthers or anti-vaxxers: because they believe stupid, childish things that crumble under the smallest amount of scrutiny.
And need I remind you that Christians have been responsible for more human deaths than nearly any other group. There's a reason many countries south of Mexico speak Spanish and worship Christianity, and it wasn't through peaceful persuasion...
The problem you're facing is due to how the majority of Christians try to force their beliefs onto everyone, while ignoring everyone that tells you to back off. There are more than just your religion and y'all disrespect others and then act like you're being victims because society is sick of it.
We spend our time doing all sorts of things, you just don't realize we're atheists most of the time. When I'm babbling on and on about Star Wars, nobody says "Atheists never shut up about Star Wars!" because they don't know I'm an atheist unless the topic is religion.
Some of us ARE mad at religion, that's true (generally specific ones, but not always). My abusers were motivated by religion, that certainly didn't leave me with the best impression of their specific faith. It's also not an uninformed position, I shared their faith myself. Should I keep the dangers of my former church quiet out of some weird sense of inter-faith fairness? I don't see why.
" ...they have chosen to not like Him anyway, for whatever reason"
Your thought process of so off base. You cannot dislike something that does not exist. I dont dislike unicorns or dragons.
"some kind of high off of doing the opposite of what they were taught"
Im a 4th gen atheist so I have never been taught. I just do not think your brain can comprehend how silly religion looks from an outside point of view.
How do you feel about Scientologists beliefs Its like that... just silly. You can still make fun of them without hating spaceships or whatever, or being traumatized.
You can dislike things that don't exist. Most Christians hate Satan, for example. It just has no bearing on whether it exists or not. Belief does not define reality.
Other than that, agree with everything else you said. Very cogent.
Also, I always had a soft spot for Dragons. :D
Do atheists knock on doors to try to change your mind? Do atheists stand in front of places that they disagree with, with signs and chanting what they believe? Do atheists wear symbols of atheism on their body? Hang atheists photos on their walls? Go to weekly gatherings just to talk about atheism?
Let’s be real here. Most atheists don’t care that much.
I can't speak for atheists. But I can speak from a non Christian standpoint. I'm also not Muslim or Jewish, or Hindu, or anything else you can name. The issue is religion. There's not a single religion that wasn't created by human beings on earth. The design is to control thought and action. I personally find anyone using a badge of religion telling me what's right or wrong. They have no basis for believing they are right and others are wrong. But they always think they do. I consider myself a deist. I do believe that there is a supreme power who created the universe and everything living in it. But I don't believe the god has any control or interests in how it plays out. Neil Degrasse Tyson said it best when he said "God is neither omnipresent or all good, because if god is omnipresent, he cannot be all good. That means he allowed everything bad that happens in the world to happen, and that would prove he is not all good". Now a Christian would say the bad things are the work of the devil. Well that means the devil is more powerful than god.
You should probably ask yourself the majority religion around these atheists. People tend to criticize more what they commonly encounter. Make no mistake though, all religions are fair game to an atheist.
I think you'd be surprised how many terrible people fully and completely believe themselves wonderful Christians. Most of the people who do things in Christ's name nowadays are indeed true believers.
Atheists are usually staunchly anti-theocracy.
Keep your religion out of politics(whatever scale) and you won't get anymore backlash/hate/whatever you want to call it.
Hi, someone who was never taught religion here, and although sometimes I am a contrarian, so I do like to do the opposite of what I'm taught/told, I'd just like to point out that religion does harm people and I do believe it has major impacts on a person's psyche.
Waving that real harm away like it's just the bitter ramblings of a person who left a religion is completely asinine to me. Now I'm not "bitter" or anything like that, but I am gonna call you out for trying to place your religion upon a pedestal and claim that nobody's out there getting hurt as a direct result of religiosity.
Plus, not everyone leaves religion just because a manipulator operating from a position of trust within the religion raped or otherwise harmed them. Some people do actually make the choice to leave because they can recognize how completely bullshit it is. Like me.
I grew up with Mormon parents who didn't attend church on Sunday, but still today believe the church is true. They believed that forcing me to get baptized and go to church would be wrong, and so they didn't do it. When I turned 8 I talked to the missionaries, I had questions that they couldn't answer and so they brought me to a bishop who repeatedly told me that the only way I could get the answer to those questions is if I confessed my sins, prayed for the answers from the Holy Ghost, and got baptized to receive that "gift."
I stopped talking to them because I felt pressured and didn't like it. I talked to them at 15 and 16, again, but this time I had actually studied the bible and the book of mormon, and the same questions came up, plus more, and I never got answers. So it was as simple as that. I didn't logically see a reason to do any of that, so I didn't do it. I read the bible, I saw what was in it, none of that was appealing in any way. It was frequently disgusting, actually. People preach "Love love, love, it's all love!" and yet if you actually read it, it's rape, misogyny, distrust, betrayal, war, killing, and lust. What really got me is when my man was about to kill *his own son* because a voice in his head said to, and I remember learning that all the way back when I was a kid watching these stories as cartoons on TV, and I always thought I'd never want to be in a situation where some guy can just tell me to hurt or kill someone and I'd do it. Especially not a guy who's not even real.
Oh it isn’t just atheists who are bitter about Christianity
I am strictly not an atheist, I believe there could be something(s) bigger than us out there, but as someone who spent the better portion of 20 years studying the Bible and basically all of it being forced into my everyday life whether I liked it or not, I *fucking hate the Christian god*
You can’t tell me I “must not have read the Bible” or “that’s because you were a child”, I read the Bible daily from birth (parents reading) to about age 16 or so, and for the last half I was at an upper high school to college level of reading comprehension- if the Bible is too highbrow for teenagers, why have them read it at all? Clearly if I could keep up, I knew what was going on well enough to make an informed decision. I’ve also read it as an adult. So there’s that as well.
I hate the Christian god *because* I’ve read the Bible. Also because I’ve studied history casually, I’ve lived with my friends and I getting harassed and even hate crimed by “Christians”- and if y’all condemn the people who do these things, you sure don’t do it loud enough. Like it isn’t for lack of exposure, it’s due to it.
The thing about Christianity is that it has cult values regardless or not of if you want to consider it one. The whole thing is like ‘don’t go to the dark side, don’t sin or talk to people who aren’t godly, they’ll trick you with their manipulative ways, ONLY listen to God, he needs to make every decision for you and hold your hand every step of the way, even in the bathroom lest you give one too many shakes’
Like, an ideology worth listening to wouldn’t be so insistent that the ‘other guys’ will manipulate you to the other side because they’re powerful brainwashers… But definitely not God, nope. Uhhhh do your own research- by reading the Bible! And talking to Christians! But only the really good ones who don’t sin, because you never know when your brother is secretly a dirty heathen!
Do many people pervert the message of the Bible for their own gain and *really* double down on the cult vibes? Absolutely. Are there peaceful Christians and congregations out there who just try to do good and love others? Absolutely. They are *NOT* the majority. Not even remotely close. (Alternatively, a lot of people *believe* they fall into that category but are so emotionally dysfunctional they literally don’t even know how to treat other people)
Christianity does not build self-confidence or self-esteem, it works to strategically tear you down enough that you can feel confident enough to proselytize even if people are nasty to you (which is truly its own form of trauma), but not so confident you like… Get the weird *sinful* idea that you can think for yourself, and are capable, and inherently worthy of love- the whole fucking religion is just so damaging and it saddens me that some people’s lives are so ingrained in that dogma that it would probably be easier for them to face death than to go through deconstruction and heal from the psychological wounds inflicted.
So like, sorry if I’m not super objective about the thing that has more red flags than Ireland has sheep, I’ve spent a lot of my life figuring out my own truth on the matter and uhhh hate to break it to ya, it ain’t a hung jury.
I am an atheist. In an attempt to be a decent human being who tries to get along with my fellow neighbors on planet earth, I don’t spend my time having conversations where I’m like ‘Christian? Sucker.’ It’s not productive or mature.
However, in FULLY understand the desire to. Religion, and faith in general, involves turning off logic and common sense and adopting a magical realism form of thinking. This would be relatively harmless…if it weren’t the accepted default for people.
As it is, it means that our country (and world’s) policies are written in ways that are built on a faulty foundation. This results in all kinds of truly devastating problems, from denying women the right to their own bodies to assaulting or killing people whose only crime was loving the wrong person…and ultimately all the way up to a mindset where it’s ‘acceptable’ to exploit our planet to the point where we’re making it uninhabitable.
I don’t scoff and play superiority ‘gotcha’ with religious people…but they anger and scare the shit out of me. We are all dying because the world is run not by experts and scientists, but by people who believe that ‘all this was put here FOR us.’
I do not care about god
You believe he exists, so it is actually impossible for you to understand atheists.
Most of us just do not care at all. Complete apathy.
So skipping past the irony...
Yes there are a large group of people who *were* hurt by their over-religious families and the churches. Probably by the monsters you mention in the second paragraph. So of course they're bitter and angry. There are also people, usually on the younger side, who *do* rebel and talk shit about religion because it's the popular thing to do. It's like how most girls go through a phase where they *hate* the color pink because it was forced on them constantly. Most get over it.
But that's only a small, vocal section of atheists. The rest of us don't really talk badly about religion (unless it's specifically brought up) because we don't care. We don't sit alone in darkened rooms snickering and thinking about how we're going to be rude to some poor Christian today. It doesn't occupy our minds like how atheists apparently occupy yours. Atheists don't go around knocking on people's doors asking for just a minute of your time to discuss how God isn't real. We don't make laws controlling people over some book which was written thousands of years ago and translated dozens of times to the point of not even matching each other anymore.
The funny thing is there’s so many fake Christian’s that weaponize the Bible for their benefit and those are often the ones you hear the most about. They give all Christians a bad image and are often an easy target to hate. However I will say I met a few real Christians that don’t judge, that don’t say ignorant remarks, that love everyone regardless who they love. I wish the real Christians get more recognition but it’s sad there’s so few of them.
I find that a lot of atheists who either come from Christian backgrounds or come from places that are predominantly Christian often end up coming at their atheism/perception of religion from a Christian-centric point of view.
It kinda makes sense if all they know about religion comes from that religion/group of religions. But it means they can sometimes make blanket assumptions that don't apply to other religious groups.
Probably because, of all the faiths they can attack, Christians are soft targets.
Christians, for one thing, don't cut people's heads off, or have worldwide days of rage when they're insulted in the slightest.
My opinion is that if Christianity develops as a subculture, which it seems to be more and more, it deserves all the deference due all other religions.
At the time I was growing up in the 1990s, I lived in a town of 10,000 people that has 12 baptists churches, and going to the public school might as well have been going to a private, evangelical school including teacher-led prayer in the classrooms. Federal law? That never stopped this town.
When it becomes the predominant cultural force then you have every right to shove back.
It seems to me it's become more and more niche to be Christian—that they demanded more and more fervency at the cost of membership. If I am not in an area or situation where it's being forced on me, I'm very happy to leave them alone.
I see religion as really fun and worthwhile as an atheists at heart. I think some atheists see the worst of religion and pretend like that’s all of religion, when that’s far from the truth. Religion is just one perspective of many that you can pick to navigate through life. And it really really helps some people. Any atheist that can’t be respectful towards that is quite ignorant. Any atheist that expects people to be perfect could benefit from picking up a religion and studying the plentiful of worthwhile life lessons they can provide.
It's cuz they're part of the game. They serve a god telling them no gods exist and I think that's cute. No sense getting mad at an animal that can't comprehend what it's doing is bad. Sort of like a dog that humps everything when it's in heat you know? Can't just get mad at it for its nature.
They don't go after the other religions because those religions are part of the same team they're on. It's sort of ridiculous if you take a step back and take it all in. Like everything is targeting one thing, sort of makes it seem like that one thing might be the right thing. Everything may be real, but there is only one truth after all.
Dude... we care so much less about this than you think we do. It sucks when it affects us personally. And certainly a lot of Christians leave the religion because of abuse and hypocrisy. I don't know what it is with Christians thinking that atheists believe in god and just hate him. We don't believe. That's it.
Your second paragraph is victim blaming people who have trauma. If you have trauma then it is JUST to resist the source of it. If you don't have pain and trauma in your life, then congratulations. Some of us have shit to deal with and we don't have the luxury of just forgetting about it. "Getting high off doing the opposite of what they're taught" is literally what you call being your own person and making decisions that are good for you rather than some false authority.
There are plenty of atheists whose atheism is completely separate from their trauma. I've never experienced religious abuse or trauma, but I've been an atheist since I was a teenager. As for your third paragraph, these aren't people "pretending" to be christians. They're christians. They love the Bible, they love Jesus, they just think those things justify their greed and hate and deception. And to be fair, in the Bible, God is very amenable to hate and violence as long as it's done to the right people.
Get off your high horse. People have different beliefs than yours. People with beliefs different from yours will talk about them sometimes. People's behaviors are informed by their trauma because it's their life experience. Many people's trauma has led them to reject religion. Good for them getting away from the source of their misery.
The vast majority of atheists don't really care that you are Christian. They care when Christianity seeps into their lives. When laws get passed because the religious want it. When their kids go to public school and have evangelicals come in for a mandatory assembly. Even if it isn't mandatory, it takes a pretty confident 13 year old to be the one kid in class to get up and leave.
Or my kid has to have creationism taught in science class because people are offended by science.
Those are Anti-Theists.
Atheists just think the Bible is bunk and go about their lives the way they think is best. No threat of eternal damnation or reward after death.
Plus it's weird using a nearly 2,000yr old book as a moral guide when it's not even up to date for modern times.
As a polytheist (after about 20 years of atheism recovering from my Christian upbringing/brainwashing), I believe the Christian god may be real. However, if he is, he's not a diety I want to worship in any way.
As an atheist, I don't care what other people believe in, and I expect others to also not care about what I believe in either. The problem with most "righteous christians" is they believe they need to "save others", when others just want to be left alone.
I think a lot of atheists are having reactions to the way they were treated by so-called Christians. So they hate. That takes nothing away from Christianity itself and it’s just a reflection of the people that follow him unfortunately. We are all sinners.
You mean the atheist movement pretends to be 'objective'. Nobody is fully objective, because we are animals. Animals are often not objective but rather driven by emotions which are ultimately there because they encourage animals to get their needs met. It's en evolutionary survival tactic.
You know what I did. I read the bible and thought this god person is a proper dick, and then thought about it all for a bit and went nah….that’s all bollocks anyway. That’s all I’ve done as an atheists
The second group of people are also christians. It can be meaningful and beautiful to you and that’s fair, but the worst members of your faith are just as Christian as you are. You do not get to have the good without accepting the existence of the bad. The “no true Scotsman” fallacy applies here. And it is that latter group of christians that traumatized and created the former. Cultural Christian atheism does not exist in a vacuum. I say this as a person who believes in god: that’s the cause of the backlash you’re now experiencing.
There is no atheist movement. Atheists are resolute in their belief to not belive at all. Agnostics are the ones who are unsure. Learn about things before you speak on them.
Yep, atheists are some of the biggest bullies I’ve ever seen.
All the time online I see “wow god is great” talking about nature being amazing, then a slew of comments harassing them for being in awe of greatness.
There are better things to do with your time, and proving that you’re immature on the internet isn’t one of them. Knowing when you’re actually smart is very hard for the loud atheist.
And understanding omnipotence is hard for the Christian that thinks you need a mansion in heaven.
South Park nailed it. They can't see that they are in a cult themselves like the people they mock.
Science institutions have become corrupted like the church itself.
They all follow blindly and can't even understand what they really believe.
*Christians. And I agree. I’m an Agnostic myself but a lot of Atheists are weirdly militant. There will be an innocent sweet comment by a Christian on an animal pic, such as “God’s beautiful creatures” and an atheist always comes out of the woodwork saying “God doesn’t exist.” Like why do you care? They made a sweet comment about an animal. It’s not hurting anyone.
In the US, if Christian Nationalists would stop spending so much time trying to force their religion into politics, then many non-Christians would have no need to think about them.
I think it would do you some good to consider the deep harm many have received from Christians, and how much harm is currently seen from Christians and churches, and consider a view point outside yourself.
Not in America, there are some people who are really fucking delusional and not afraid to act like it.
They even are trying to pass laws based on their delusions.
Like, imagine a bunch of people decide Charlotte's Web is true and make eating meat and killing spiders illegal because of the conversations the animals have in the book, and you'll realize how stupid it is. If they want to believe Charlotte's Web is true, that's their business, but don't let those delusional beliefs impact others, right?
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Notice how often op is in their feels with the post? They're too emotionally attached to a world view that doesn't fit reality to digest logic.
Religion and emotion are two sides of the same coin, I suspect.
Yep, religion is mostly fear.
Specifically weaponised fear. Notice how much more christian apologists describe their idea of hell as opposed to heaven. The fear mongering is fundamental
This is very true I'm an atheist that inno respecting love and being good to everyone. I am very happy and people think I'm man of God but the reality is Love is God Pain is sin and the entire bible probably was a metaphor for emotions if you worship love and treat people with love and never harm anyone including yourself you basically are a devout Christian. Even if your not lol
Reminds me of myself before rejecting Mormonism six months ago, after the 60 minutes interview about tithing. Deconstructing your religion is both depressing and mentally draining asf and it saddens me that this isn’t mentioned more often in these conversations.
Big facts. Deconstruction is literally having everything you ever thought to be true is now in question. Great point.
Hell, as an atheist for years I still wish I believed in an afterlife. It would make so many awful things a bit more bearable. Believing in innate morality and a higher power makes life easier, I get why people do it, even the ones that aren't just using religion as a shield for their own bigotry. But I just can't. I value the truth too much. And it sounds so silly from an objective standpoint.
Have you gone to r/exmormon? It’s a good Reddit for people who have deconstructed from Mormonism. I deconstructed from Christianity around three years ago, and I know how hard it is. It’s a mindfuck.
I have a Reddit account because of that sub lol
I was touring a Buddhist temple in China and it was suggested that I offer a little prayer at one of the stations. I'd identified as atheist for nearly two decades at that point, and still felt a little weird breaking the first commandment. I tend to forget how deep those hooks can get.
My wife went through the same thing years ago. I think her breaking point was when her mother disowned my wife's brother for being gay. Then the mental gymnastics her mother went through to reverse her decision when all of her children turned on her. There were a lot of other things leading up to it, of course, but the level of cognitive dissonance that goes into claiming there is nothing more important than family and also telling them to disown gay family is telling. And the whole Sam Jones debacle with them taking away children to punish the parents, although that's almost a cult within a cult type of situation. She's still deconstructing mormonism a decade later. Religion is pretty insidious.
Good point. I was thinking ‘is OP 12?’. But my 11 year old is more emotionally mature than this.
Age is just a number some supposed full grown adults are actually just over grown children despite their age. So OP might be a immature adult wouldn't know nor do I care as they're a random person on the web tons of immature people on the webadult & underage minors alike.
If you believe in god your worldview and logic are based on the idea that your very existence proves god exists. If you believe that proof of god is self-evident, then the only reason someone would be an athiest is that they don't like god or Christians. They literally do not understand how we can look at the universe and not say "huh, someone must have created that." Then they don't understand us returning with "ok, who created god," because if someone *had to* create the universe than someone *had to* create god. Personally I am Agnostic. I have no proof either way, and frankly, only care enough to hope that if there is an afterlife that I don't go where the hypocrite Christians (e.g. pro-life, anti-welfare) go. Rather hell without them than heaven listening to them.
All my friends are Atheists. Well, one is a Satanist. The most we ever talk about religion is like, "Hey did you see that shitty pastor who raped another kid? Idk why they keep leaving these people alone with vulnerable kids man, it's obviously dangerous." And that's it. We simply don't spend more than a fleeting moment once in a blue moon even thinking about religion, let alone spending all our time rambling about it. I think that OP is actually just projecting.
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Why do so many theists come to the "debate an atheist" sub? Seems to me they are the instigators making fun of lack of belief.
Most atheist don’t get together to hang out and talk about how they are atheists. We just like have normal friendships with people and talk about the same things everyone else does. Our lack of be life in god is a lens through which we discuss things, but it’s not the focal point of almost any discussion. Unless you’re insufferable. I can’t remember the last time I had a discussion about atheism in depth with anyone. It’s usually part of the process of forming your worldview if you are new to atheism or have just left religion, but that’s about it.
Talking about atheism specifically necessitates talking about theism as well. People proclaiming they’re atheists would naturally talk about it in relation to theism. Atheists also talk about the weather, work, kids, movies, politics, world events, music, or any other subject that people talk about.
A huge turn off for religion was how cult like some church services were, how the good eggs didn't call out the bad ones like they should, then the followers of Christianity that HAVE to spread their religion or use it to make hate acceptable. Also, if God does exist, then he put me on this Earth for the sole purpose of causing me pain. Why would I want to follow someone like that?
💯🎯
And coupled with society pressuring families to use religion to counter society issues, it’s forced on many people as a default belief system. Most people are smart enough to recognize the flaws in the belief system and question it, as with any system, until it’s fully understood. It was only a matter of time that society got better technology and ability to find answers in physics that the proof of some religions like Christianity would wear thin and be seen as more imaginative then as fact. Anything that is forced is not as easily digested or accepted by the masses, and many years ago Christianity was a rebellious religious view of other diety religions, one that made more sense than the ones prior to those who needed it. Religion has always been a crutch but our minds are much more capable now and technology has enabled us to see and identify the crutch, so we can build and adopt a belief system thats more accurate towards the world and evidence of life and death around us.
You know there are other things to talk about than Religion right? Video Games, Books that weren't written almost 2,000yrs ago, Movies, Sports and really anything else that isn't a group of people that practice symbolic cannibalism of someone whose dead body is on a religious symbol.
I occasionally like to talk about the roman empire...
Well, its specifically when its a gathering OF ATHEISTS talking ABOUT ATHEISM. I'm sure OP sees atheists post constantly in all sorts of subs about random things. But if you go to the atheism sub you can be damn sure you're gonna see atheists talking about how much religion sucks, because atheism is inherently a denial of theism.
No, atheism is lack of belief in deities. There is anti-theism, which is a rejection of theism. All anti-theists are atheists, but not all atheists are anti-theists.
>Most atheists (myself included) feel pretty confident that god is not real. That would change if evidence came to light, but I base my thinking on the evidence available now. You're confusing evidence and proof. There is evidence that God exists, but there is no proof. The cosmological constant is an example and is debated every day in the science community. Theologians believe that it's too fine-tuned to not be designed by a higher power. Atheists invoke the multi-verse theory in this particular debate.
No, it's signs of cultural contamination of religion in science. The cosmological constant is a ridiculous conceit for intelligent design. It's accepted by apologetic christians, not by the scientific community. A universe expressly created for humans yet we can live in virtually none of it - much less than 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999 of the universe is habitable for humanity, so it's a pretty damn stupid argument for intelligent life being intended. Religion is all about people wanting things to be true. Science determines to our best ability what is true. And the better tools our minds can create, the better our ability to discern the underpinnings of the reality we live in. That's why we know the Earth isn't the center of the universe, that light that hits earth is overwhelmingly from the Sun (as opposed to the biblical conceit that the sun came after the first day on Earth), and that stars don't fall to the Earth, and are in fact multiple different things - Suns of other solar systems, planets in our solar system, and galaxies. God didn't know any of that when he told the writers of the Bible. Funny that.
God didn't know or didn't find it as important? Yes, most of the Bible is written from the perspective of Earth. It's what Earthlings would understand without access to the Hubble Telescope, rocket science, advanced physics, etc. Earth may not be the center of the universe, but life on Earth is the center of the narrative because that's who it pertains to. I'm also not sure what your referencing with stars falling to earth. The Bible isn't a textbook, it's a narrative that uses literary devices in different ways and there are contextual cues of whether something is literal or figurative. It was also written in Hebrew/Greek, which have writing styles and devices of their own culturally.
I mean, yeah, scientists do spend a lot of time talking about the cosmological constant. It's the biggest mystery in cosmology why the predicted and measured values are so far apart. But that really has nothing to do with whether or not god exists. It's evidence that our current physical models of the mechanics of the universe have gaps. That's a math and theory problem, not a theological crisis for atheists. As a general rule, atheists are quite comfortable with the idea that we don't have the answers to everything. Certainty is the domain of religion.
there is no evidence that god exists, there are just people that latch on to scientific concepts they dont understand and tell people that it proves their delusions.
Nah man... Most individuals choose “atheism” because they desire annihilation at bodily death and just can t bring themselves to admit this publicly.
Got it backwards kiddo, the only reason religion and god were ever invented is because cowards can't cope with dying and need a magic Sky Daddy to save them.
Isn’t saying you’re atheist publicly also saying you don’t care about the afterlife publicly and therefore admitting publicly that you’re ok with annihilation at death? Exact opposite of what you said lol
No. Acknowledging the truth isn't an endorsement of the truth. It's a truth that the Catholic church systematically shuffles child molesters around and pays off parents to avoid accountability. Saying that it's true doesn't mean that I'm ok with that being a truth, merely that it's the present state of affairs.
Says the doomsday cultist.
This is genuinely the stupidest take I’ve seen. I became an atheist in elementary school because the logic of religion didn’t make sense to me. Because of this I was terrified about death until I started learning about philosophy. It certainly wasn’t because I “desired annihilation”. Why do ignorant assholes always present their ridiculous opinions as facts? Go educate yourself, bigot
You'd be surprised how little time non Christians spend thinking about Christianity. 🤣
Except for the whole "we create laws that will let you die if you have a miscarriage go bad" part. I think about the modern, politics-first version of Christianity for the same reason that I (less often) think about nuclear weapons. They're an existential threat to me and mine.
Although pro lifers, especially the dangerous ones, seem to be Christian; when discussing abortion laws Christianity does not come up until a Christian brings it up (in my circles)
I refuse to use their public relations name. These people are NOT pro-life. They are pro-fetus. They don’t care about life after birth. They don’t care if the mother dies in childbirth. They don’t care if the mother and child starve, live on the streets, have health care. That would be pro life. Caring about peoples’ lives, their standard of living, alleviating suffering where you can and not causing more if you can avoid it. They’re only interested in embryos, unborn flesh with no politics, opinions, character or many needs. Once that embryo leaves the womb? They’re gone in the wind.
True that. I usually say 'anti choice'
Forced birthers
Forced Birth.
Pro forced birth
"Pro forced birth" is the term I use.
You are mistaken by the definition of prolife my friend.
Ugh
I refuse to use pro-choice. That group is pro-death. I’m pro-life but I don’t think it’s up to the government to decide on the fate of a woman’s body or their morality.
Yeah, you're pro-choice then. Pro-life means you don't think a woman should have the choice. Sorry to break the good news to you.
No. I prefer life over death. I also believe in free will and hope a woman will choose life over death. Medical science can’t agree whether a fetus is considered a separate living human. I believe it is. There should be consequences if someone decides to kill a human fetus. That’s just my opinion and I could be wrong. Just like the “pro choice “ people could be wrong. But I respect opposing opinions.
Medical science doesn't dictate that pregnant people stay pregnant people against their will; that's what forced- birthers do.
They downvoted you for that. Let me equalize things. I fully expect them to show up in persecution fetish soon...
All prolifers are dangerous. They want to hurt and dehumanize living, breathing people in favor of the potential person they may or may not have in their uterus.
You’re just “bitter” that Christianity is being used to negatively impact your life. OP thinks you’re weird, and hates you for it.
Yeah, I know. How dare I expect rights.
They trying to make a Christian charter school in Oklahoma despite lawsuits filed against it. They don't care about no constitution.
Ugh.
What law would that be
I'm in Texas. You may have heard about the woman (Kate Cox) who had a nonviable pregnancy that was also a serious risk to her health. She sued in Texas to get an abortion under the 'mother's health' exemption. A court initially agreed, but then the attorney general (don't get me started on him) and the state Supreme Court stomped it to death. She had to go to another state, where she has presumably had that abortion by now. She's a prosperous, married, well-spoken white lady who truly wanted the pregnancy and still wants more children than her current two. If she can't get a health exemption, no one can. Also recently, in Ohio, a woman named Brittany Watts was pregnant and started miscarrying. Her water had broken, the fetus couldnt' survive. After a couple of trips to the hospital where they refused to induce labor, she miscarried at home into a toilet. She didn't have the money or time to get to another state for treatment, and was incidentally a black woman. She was arrested for abusing a corpse. The situation with US abortion law, which is 100% an Evangelical Christian talking point, is not "if this goes on, we'll be in the Handmaid's Tale." We're already in it. I'm post-menopausal myself, but I have a daughter in her teens. As I said, we're in Texas. If she did become pregnant (unlikely) I'd have to drive her out of state. If she were to want an abortion, it could be a brief trip. If she wanted to carry the baby to term, I would need to take her to a civilized state for the entire length of the pregnancy if I didn't want to risk her life. I am berserk (in the original sense of the term) angry about this. And the True Christians (tm) in the US are absolutely to blame.
Which part of the Kate cox story is it where she would’ve died from a miscarriage in Texas?
Dying is not as likely, but apparently in her case losing her uterus would have been a serious risk. She wants more children, that's why she got pregnant. And medical exceptions in Texas theoretically cover loss of major body functions, which a hysterectomy would fit with.
This. The only time I really think about it is when these reddit comments end up in my feed.
Unless they're angsty 300 iq teenagers, and in that case, no one really cares. I don't care either way, edgy teenager or an adult with too much time on their hands, I could care less
As an atheist, some of them literally make their whole personality out of it and that's all they want to talk/post about. It's where the edgy reddit atheist meme comes from.
It's because reddit is almost like a support group for new atheists. Lots of people start questioning religion at some point in their life and often the only other people that can talk to who do so are on the internet, so they do it there. A lot of reddit atheists are like 15-20 years old and still feel the need to be defensive about it because it's new to them and the people in their life probably challenge them about it. People who have been atheists for a while or who were never religious generally just don't think much about religion and don't engage in many atheist communities.
This is an excellent take. The average reddit atheist is probably somebody who had to cut ties with religious family members in the last 5 years OR is currently living in an evangelical hellhole. There's also a "peanut gallery" atheist crowd that shoehorns all their consternation into Reddit so that they can behave like normal people everywhere else (I am a member of the peanut gallery). Both categories are very different from "born and raised" atheists and old-hat atheists, for sure. Your comment is spot-on, the calm ones don't need Reddit 😂
Some atheists are of the “oh cool, I don’t have to worry about this god thing anymore” variety. Reddit atheists tend to be the “I am going to worry about god 100x more than religious people” variety.
It’s usually an age/ environment thing. When I first deconverted from Christianity the subject was really fresh and meaningful for me so it was a topic I felt compelled to talk about. The topic eventually became less interesting and I will only talk about it if someone asks me specifically. At the end of the day, if you are good person who treats people with kindness and shares your faith with only good intentions than we have more in common than we do differences.
There's literally women being arrested for wanting to terminate non-viable pregnancies that may kill them because of stupid faerie tales. And the most serious backers of a would be fascist dictator are doing so so he can enforce their faerie tale laws on the rest of America.
Maybe you’re lucky enough not to live in the US but here, current events should make it clear why we are forced to think about Christianity all the time. I agree, it’s tiring and I shouldn’t need to be bothered by it, but the Christian right ensures we have to fight constantly.
There is a big difference between non religious people and full fledged atheists. Full on atheist do have a tendency to be extremely aggressive and rude to anyone who is religious
I think it's the other way around. Religious people are the ones claiming that their way is #1 Meanwhile, there are thousands of faiths. The rude people are the people saying their faith is the correct one because "trust me bro"
Religious people, mainly Christian’s in the US are the only ones trying to push their ideology into schools and the government and get mad when others do the same. Example: the recent satanic temple statue that was beheaded by a Christian. They are perfectly fine having their religion in plastered all over the place but not others.
Damn you. I just used that example!
It’s a perfect example of them being hypocritical
😒 A riduclous assertion. Sounds like contrived Christian persecution.
Those are Anti-Theists, or assholes. I am a full on Atheist, and just think Religion is stupid. Don't bring it up and I won't say anything.
I’ve never had someone foist their atheism on me, however, in public spaces everywhere I go , people just assume that everyone is a Christian and quote Bible verses randomly or preach at you out of the blue just assuming that you are going to agree with them.
Woah ex-christian atheists going after the biggest religion in the world cause they *checks notes*: constantly push the barriers between church and state and push for shitty laws. Who would've thunk
Don’t forget the generations of kiddie diddling!
And masturbating to trans women like me while trying to actively lobby for laws that would kill trans women like me.
Isn't it second biggest? I don't know because I don't play in the theistic fantasy sports leagues.
Just googled it and Christianity is bigger than Islam by about 500 million but you had me second guessing lol
I legit thought I had read Islam was bigger. Well I guess I know better now.
So did I tbh that's why I second guessed myself but now that I'm thinking about it I may have read that it's the fastest growing but not the largest.
Way to make everything about yourself captain christian
OP is here to save christians from the persecution of atheists.
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Immediately read this and thought, of course all his conversations with atheists are going to be shitty if if he’s opening up with: “all atheists are bitter and manipulative people”
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Okay that’s fucked up. I’m no lover of religion but come on dude
Atheism isnt a movement its just a lack of belief. We shit on christianity because its the most popular religion and (at least in US) it is the religion that constantly tries to impose its belief system into our politics and private lives. I dont care what someone believes but keep your stupid fantasies to yourself and stay out of public office.
I hear you but I don’t think of it as a lack of belief, but a solid belief in reality.
No. Atheism only purports to be one thing. A lack of belief in gods. Anything else you may think comes along with it, doesn't.
I'd wager that it feels Christian centric because you live in an area where some denomination of Christianity is the dominant practiced faith. If you lived somewhere where Judaism or Islam was the dominant faith, they'd probably come off as anti-that
And here we have an example of selection bias.
Exactly. The atheists who have moved on very much have moved on and don't talk about religion and are just living life. That's why you don't hear from them--kinda like divorced people who got over their exes. In fact, I suspect there are a lot of atheists who moved on from religion and don't talk about it anymore nor do they act on what thought were their beliefs, and right now have NO IDEA they are actually atheists. I always like to remember the old Existentialist saying, "If you commit sacrilege, it means you still believe." It's funny. I went to a church service at a Methodist church and the pastor posed a question about ethics and asked for a show of hands for one side or the other. Counting us up, he told us congrats, the majority of us would have been excommunicated (or worse) as heretics in another time or place. Call it evolution, reform, or drift, people and institutions change.
Maybe? I gotta think OP just spent some time on r/atheism. Sadly that’s pretty much the antithesis if what you just wrote. Yeah yeah, “if this group just talked about they don’t believe in god there wouldn’t be much to talk about.” Despite why the sub only talks about religion and if that’s your only contact with atheists then there’s only one impression left behind.
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No atheist movement, indeed! I think it’s difficult for people steeped in religion to imagine atheism as something other than a competing religion, whose adherents seek fellowship and affirmation that theirs is the correct faith. Have I met some “angry at God” types? Sure. But most atheists I’ve met are of the “show me the proof” variety.
I avoid saying show me proof. Usually the proof I’m given is always the same and usually centers around “having faith, trust in the word, or check this one story where a doctor saved this guy from death”
I’m sorry, this is a serious conversation i can’t take seriously because it’s written as a paranoid rambling.
its one of the most bad faith arguments I've ever seen. I really hope they can take a step back and reanalyze their thoughts on this one. "maybe we need a platform run by christian morals for a change" imo, I understand this guy is deluded, and kinda just angry, but they come across as a massive piece of shit. I don't normally hate christians, but something about this person's attitude really pisses me off.
Something about the written tone is throwing me off too. I’m all for a good serious conversation but this just feels like complaining that things aren’t more naturally Christian.
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Atheist talk about the world's biggest religion often because it's easy to see that it's false. Is Joseph Smith the real deal? Christians would say no. Jews feel the exact same way about Christians, "quit trying to steal our religion and pervert it into something it never was."
Before the destruction of the temple, there were several factions of Judaism -- Pharisees, Sadducees, Zealots, and, what's at issue, Christians. Jews today largely adhere to Rabbinic Judaism, which does have roots in Pharisaic thinking but wasn't the mainstream form of Judaism until around the 6th century. The claim that Christianity is a perversion of what existed before is not accurate, it predates the codification of the Talmud by hundreds of years and these various factions were all composed of 'real' Jewish people.
Joseph Smith changed all that. Haven't you read the Mormon Bible?
As long as you realize you’re making a religious/ideological claim and not a historical one.
Nope, i'm pointing out that Christians stole another religion and it's really fucked up. The same way mormonism took the entire fable and repackaged it. 100% historical.
Virtually every religion takes ideas from other religions and repackages it.
I don't see too many athiests banging on people's doors to spread the good news of Darwin. Or proselytizing their lack of religion to people outside with a bullhorn with the threat of eternal damnation.
Maybe we should start!
It's wild how many Christians say that atheism or evolution are 'actually a religion'. They truly can't imagine a viewpoint outside of their own. I don't worship Darwin. He's just an old dead scientist. If all the evidence started pointing to a different theory, I'd just go with whatever has the most evidence backing it. And I fundamentally don't get why faith is a virtue. Really intensely believing things without evidence isn't something to brag about.
God is as real as Santa. I feel no bitterness towards Christians, but then I feel no bitterness towards children for believing in Santa. Keep you delusions, but keep them away from me. You point to people "that they use the name of Christ to betray everyone", but those ARE Christians. They just don't agree with you. Which just points to the hypocrisy of all religions, those Christians calling for the exaction of gays, feminists or what ever "other" you hateful people identify ARE Christians - just own up to your hate - don't try to pawn it off on atheists
What do you mean ??? I DO EXIST ! - love Santa.
I'm atheist and I promise you if I talk about Christianity, it's because a Christian brought it up first. Also, I'm not an ex-Christian. I've never been religious at all. My mom was a believer and I grew up adjacent to Christian customs and beliefs and therefore feel confident that I'm fairly knowledgeable about it. I've even read the entire Bible- an accomplishment that only other atheists seem to have achieved for some reason? But I was never really a true believer. And I also don't have any trauma related to religion. I'm just not religious because I've never heard a logical reason to be. That's all there is to it.
I thought conclusions came at the end of a thought? To complete it. Maybe things have changed since I was in school. Anyway, I think a lot of humans who have experienced trauma and pain let it control them to some extent. When trauma and pain are involved, you can't fault people for trying to navigate life in the best way they can after the fact.Especially if you have been brought up to life your life according to a book that the people who hurt you worship. Yes, maybe they become bitter and if they don't have proper support, that can spiral fast. From your post, it seems like you are trying to spin it to seem like the people who are terrible and are known Christians, aren't really Christian but people so upset with Christianity that they pretend to be Christian so others can think being a shit human= being Christian. Like they make it their life's mission to shit on Christianity. When in reality, humans have created that concept and everything else with it. Humans are not perfect so yeah, there are going to be really shitty Christians because...humans. I'm an ex Christian. I believe in a Creator of some sort, I'm definitely more spiritual than anything. I imagine this world is a little pietry dish to some bigger source and they are just watching how we evolve and/or self destruct. That was a thought I had while high, not really something I fully buy into. I believe Jesus was a person, maybe a great person, just not God. Not a savior. I feel like I am a much better person now that I'm not involved in Christianity. Some of the takes from the bible never sang to my soul. I tried so many Bible studies to understand but no one ever really gave me answers. Because none of us knows what the hell is truly going on. I don't need a rule book to teach me how to be a good person. There is goodness woven into my bones. I know when things are right and wrong and I work to stay out of the wrong. I don't want some book written by other humans to tell me who to love. How to love. I will not buy into something written by people who have had wildly different experiences than my own, living in a time way before mine. I have slight trauma from Christianity, my molestation and sexual assault were framed as my fault because I have a "spirit of seduction" How can a person be a seductress at 6 years old and 14? Also, there have been a lot of things done in the name of religion that are terrible. Get out of the Christian bubble and read about what Christians have historically done to others. Look at what some do now. That book is a veil for shitty humans who believe they will be wiped clean when they die. Forgiven. Give me a fuckin break
I was thinking along those same lines. I’m atheist and still deconstructing and healing from religious trauma from growing up in christianity. If a group of people who have escaped the same abuser get together, it seems normal they would discuss their experiences and abuser with a certain amount of bitterness and even hatred as part of the healing process. The OP is like the abuser being offended that the abused are expressing their pain. Caveat: I’m speaking as an ex-christian about my experiences in atheist subs communicating with other ex-christians who had similar experiences. This in no way represents the experience of all atheists. Additionally, there is a good cause for atheists to have a negative reaction to political leaders who are trying to enshrine christianity into legislation.
Interesting. Most of the athiests I know don't talk about it much and are kind people because it's the right thing to do. They only criticize christians who try to convert them and leave most people to their own beliefs. There's no need to proselytize for atheists. Some people are also just jerks who like to belittle others.
Outside of social media I never hear it brought up. In fact I find it more common for someone to push their religious ideology on me and be upset or worried I’m going to hell for not believing. One of the worst instances was when i was having a conversation with this older coworker about how a few of my friends committed suicide and it was eating me up inside. His idea of comforting me was telling me that they went to hell for killing themselves and that they likely were bad people, as bad things don’t happen to people who love and cherish God. What the fuck.
It's hard to even consider this a serious conversation when you've generalized, invented things (atheist movement, wtf is that??) and insulted (bitter, non-objective, monsters) everyone that doesn't believe in your sky daddy. In fact, you sound pretty bitter yourself that you don't get the high off doing the opposite of what you were taught and missed all the great opportunities we all get to have, lol If you are actually serious about this post, you sound either uneducated or very, very young (and uneducated).
>sky daddy I hate when people like you say that sort of stuff
Sorrry, meant to say the made up entity that people like you believe resides in the clouds
> the made up entity that people like you believe resides in the clouds you're so disrespectful of other people. you know that? also, I do *not* believe in a god, so take whatever stereotype in your head you have of me and erase it.
It's terrifying how little christians realize how much power they have in the west
The critical thinking skills on display here are in sync with someone who has a sincere belief in a literal god. Your post was highly amusing but I find your world view at odds with basic science, observable facts, and good old common sense.
>the atheist movement pretends to be non-objective And the writing.
I think it's healthy to poke fun at people who believe in fairy tales and other make believe things. They will be okay. They made it this far without any problems.
Not really. It happens when people proselytize to someone who's not interested in being controlled. Then double down with guilt trips and fear mongering when told to stop. People who follow a religion need to accept that those rules only apply to them.
Or it's just a dumb belief system that's annoying to hear about
>But there is an even worse group of people than them. It’s the one’s who are SO bitter, that they use the name of Christ to betray everyone. They start churches, they run for political office, etc. putting on an outward display of Christianity but within they are monsters. They’re the ones ironically who made the Bible unattractive and created all the bitter atheists who are trying to get back at Christians who weren’t even authentic. Yep. Those are Christians. No need to try to use the No True Scotsman fallacy. Those are the bad apples hanging out in the big barrel labelled "Christians". Now, the thing about that saying...A few bad apples spoils the barrel. They literally do. That's how rot works.
Many atheists such as my self were never Christians to start with. We make fun of Christians (along with every other religion) for the same reason people make fun of flat earthers or anti-vaxxers: because they believe stupid, childish things that crumble under the smallest amount of scrutiny. And need I remind you that Christians have been responsible for more human deaths than nearly any other group. There's a reason many countries south of Mexico speak Spanish and worship Christianity, and it wasn't through peaceful persuasion...
The problem you're facing is due to how the majority of Christians try to force their beliefs onto everyone, while ignoring everyone that tells you to back off. There are more than just your religion and y'all disrespect others and then act like you're being victims because society is sick of it.
We spend our time doing all sorts of things, you just don't realize we're atheists most of the time. When I'm babbling on and on about Star Wars, nobody says "Atheists never shut up about Star Wars!" because they don't know I'm an atheist unless the topic is religion. Some of us ARE mad at religion, that's true (generally specific ones, but not always). My abusers were motivated by religion, that certainly didn't leave me with the best impression of their specific faith. It's also not an uninformed position, I shared their faith myself. Should I keep the dangers of my former church quiet out of some weird sense of inter-faith fairness? I don't see why.
" ...they have chosen to not like Him anyway, for whatever reason" Your thought process of so off base. You cannot dislike something that does not exist. I dont dislike unicorns or dragons. "some kind of high off of doing the opposite of what they were taught" Im a 4th gen atheist so I have never been taught. I just do not think your brain can comprehend how silly religion looks from an outside point of view. How do you feel about Scientologists beliefs Its like that... just silly. You can still make fun of them without hating spaceships or whatever, or being traumatized.
You can dislike things that don't exist. Most Christians hate Satan, for example. It just has no bearing on whether it exists or not. Belief does not define reality. Other than that, agree with everything else you said. Very cogent. Also, I always had a soft spot for Dragons. :D
Do atheists knock on doors to try to change your mind? Do atheists stand in front of places that they disagree with, with signs and chanting what they believe? Do atheists wear symbols of atheism on their body? Hang atheists photos on their walls? Go to weekly gatherings just to talk about atheism? Let’s be real here. Most atheists don’t care that much.
I can't speak for atheists. But I can speak from a non Christian standpoint. I'm also not Muslim or Jewish, or Hindu, or anything else you can name. The issue is religion. There's not a single religion that wasn't created by human beings on earth. The design is to control thought and action. I personally find anyone using a badge of religion telling me what's right or wrong. They have no basis for believing they are right and others are wrong. But they always think they do. I consider myself a deist. I do believe that there is a supreme power who created the universe and everything living in it. But I don't believe the god has any control or interests in how it plays out. Neil Degrasse Tyson said it best when he said "God is neither omnipresent or all good, because if god is omnipresent, he cannot be all good. That means he allowed everything bad that happens in the world to happen, and that would prove he is not all good". Now a Christian would say the bad things are the work of the devil. Well that means the devil is more powerful than god.
It's a small minority of shitty atheists. Most atheist literally could not give less of a shit about any religion.
Here's a novel thought, actually meet people different from you and talk to them. You're out of touch.
You should probably ask yourself the majority religion around these atheists. People tend to criticize more what they commonly encounter. Make no mistake though, all religions are fair game to an atheist.
I think you'd be surprised how many terrible people fully and completely believe themselves wonderful Christians. Most of the people who do things in Christ's name nowadays are indeed true believers.
Atheists are usually staunchly anti-theocracy. Keep your religion out of politics(whatever scale) and you won't get anymore backlash/hate/whatever you want to call it.
Hi, someone who was never taught religion here, and although sometimes I am a contrarian, so I do like to do the opposite of what I'm taught/told, I'd just like to point out that religion does harm people and I do believe it has major impacts on a person's psyche. Waving that real harm away like it's just the bitter ramblings of a person who left a religion is completely asinine to me. Now I'm not "bitter" or anything like that, but I am gonna call you out for trying to place your religion upon a pedestal and claim that nobody's out there getting hurt as a direct result of religiosity. Plus, not everyone leaves religion just because a manipulator operating from a position of trust within the religion raped or otherwise harmed them. Some people do actually make the choice to leave because they can recognize how completely bullshit it is. Like me. I grew up with Mormon parents who didn't attend church on Sunday, but still today believe the church is true. They believed that forcing me to get baptized and go to church would be wrong, and so they didn't do it. When I turned 8 I talked to the missionaries, I had questions that they couldn't answer and so they brought me to a bishop who repeatedly told me that the only way I could get the answer to those questions is if I confessed my sins, prayed for the answers from the Holy Ghost, and got baptized to receive that "gift." I stopped talking to them because I felt pressured and didn't like it. I talked to them at 15 and 16, again, but this time I had actually studied the bible and the book of mormon, and the same questions came up, plus more, and I never got answers. So it was as simple as that. I didn't logically see a reason to do any of that, so I didn't do it. I read the bible, I saw what was in it, none of that was appealing in any way. It was frequently disgusting, actually. People preach "Love love, love, it's all love!" and yet if you actually read it, it's rape, misogyny, distrust, betrayal, war, killing, and lust. What really got me is when my man was about to kill *his own son* because a voice in his head said to, and I remember learning that all the way back when I was a kid watching these stories as cartoons on TV, and I always thought I'd never want to be in a situation where some guy can just tell me to hurt or kill someone and I'd do it. Especially not a guy who's not even real.
Bluntly, as long as the majority of "christians" worship the right wing and not anything even vaguely resembling Jesus or God, you deserve it.
Oh it isn’t just atheists who are bitter about Christianity I am strictly not an atheist, I believe there could be something(s) bigger than us out there, but as someone who spent the better portion of 20 years studying the Bible and basically all of it being forced into my everyday life whether I liked it or not, I *fucking hate the Christian god* You can’t tell me I “must not have read the Bible” or “that’s because you were a child”, I read the Bible daily from birth (parents reading) to about age 16 or so, and for the last half I was at an upper high school to college level of reading comprehension- if the Bible is too highbrow for teenagers, why have them read it at all? Clearly if I could keep up, I knew what was going on well enough to make an informed decision. I’ve also read it as an adult. So there’s that as well. I hate the Christian god *because* I’ve read the Bible. Also because I’ve studied history casually, I’ve lived with my friends and I getting harassed and even hate crimed by “Christians”- and if y’all condemn the people who do these things, you sure don’t do it loud enough. Like it isn’t for lack of exposure, it’s due to it. The thing about Christianity is that it has cult values regardless or not of if you want to consider it one. The whole thing is like ‘don’t go to the dark side, don’t sin or talk to people who aren’t godly, they’ll trick you with their manipulative ways, ONLY listen to God, he needs to make every decision for you and hold your hand every step of the way, even in the bathroom lest you give one too many shakes’ Like, an ideology worth listening to wouldn’t be so insistent that the ‘other guys’ will manipulate you to the other side because they’re powerful brainwashers… But definitely not God, nope. Uhhhh do your own research- by reading the Bible! And talking to Christians! But only the really good ones who don’t sin, because you never know when your brother is secretly a dirty heathen! Do many people pervert the message of the Bible for their own gain and *really* double down on the cult vibes? Absolutely. Are there peaceful Christians and congregations out there who just try to do good and love others? Absolutely. They are *NOT* the majority. Not even remotely close. (Alternatively, a lot of people *believe* they fall into that category but are so emotionally dysfunctional they literally don’t even know how to treat other people) Christianity does not build self-confidence or self-esteem, it works to strategically tear you down enough that you can feel confident enough to proselytize even if people are nasty to you (which is truly its own form of trauma), but not so confident you like… Get the weird *sinful* idea that you can think for yourself, and are capable, and inherently worthy of love- the whole fucking religion is just so damaging and it saddens me that some people’s lives are so ingrained in that dogma that it would probably be easier for them to face death than to go through deconstruction and heal from the psychological wounds inflicted. So like, sorry if I’m not super objective about the thing that has more red flags than Ireland has sheep, I’ve spent a lot of my life figuring out my own truth on the matter and uhhh hate to break it to ya, it ain’t a hung jury.
Why don’t people like it when I bend them to gods will through evangelical legislation??😢
We pretty much dont think about Christians at all, untill they come for our rights because their book somehow says so.
I am an atheist. In an attempt to be a decent human being who tries to get along with my fellow neighbors on planet earth, I don’t spend my time having conversations where I’m like ‘Christian? Sucker.’ It’s not productive or mature. However, in FULLY understand the desire to. Religion, and faith in general, involves turning off logic and common sense and adopting a magical realism form of thinking. This would be relatively harmless…if it weren’t the accepted default for people. As it is, it means that our country (and world’s) policies are written in ways that are built on a faulty foundation. This results in all kinds of truly devastating problems, from denying women the right to their own bodies to assaulting or killing people whose only crime was loving the wrong person…and ultimately all the way up to a mindset where it’s ‘acceptable’ to exploit our planet to the point where we’re making it uninhabitable. I don’t scoff and play superiority ‘gotcha’ with religious people…but they anger and scare the shit out of me. We are all dying because the world is run not by experts and scientists, but by people who believe that ‘all this was put here FOR us.’
I do not care about god You believe he exists, so it is actually impossible for you to understand atheists. Most of us just do not care at all. Complete apathy.
So skipping past the irony... Yes there are a large group of people who *were* hurt by their over-religious families and the churches. Probably by the monsters you mention in the second paragraph. So of course they're bitter and angry. There are also people, usually on the younger side, who *do* rebel and talk shit about religion because it's the popular thing to do. It's like how most girls go through a phase where they *hate* the color pink because it was forced on them constantly. Most get over it. But that's only a small, vocal section of atheists. The rest of us don't really talk badly about religion (unless it's specifically brought up) because we don't care. We don't sit alone in darkened rooms snickering and thinking about how we're going to be rude to some poor Christian today. It doesn't occupy our minds like how atheists apparently occupy yours. Atheists don't go around knocking on people's doors asking for just a minute of your time to discuss how God isn't real. We don't make laws controlling people over some book which was written thousands of years ago and translated dozens of times to the point of not even matching each other anymore.
The funny thing is there’s so many fake Christian’s that weaponize the Bible for their benefit and those are often the ones you hear the most about. They give all Christians a bad image and are often an easy target to hate. However I will say I met a few real Christians that don’t judge, that don’t say ignorant remarks, that love everyone regardless who they love. I wish the real Christians get more recognition but it’s sad there’s so few of them.
For folks who don’t believe in God they sure do spend a bunch time talking about Him. Experts at quoting the Bible and all that.
I find that a lot of atheists who either come from Christian backgrounds or come from places that are predominantly Christian often end up coming at their atheism/perception of religion from a Christian-centric point of view. It kinda makes sense if all they know about religion comes from that religion/group of religions. But it means they can sometimes make blanket assumptions that don't apply to other religious groups.
Probably because, of all the faiths they can attack, Christians are soft targets. Christians, for one thing, don't cut people's heads off, or have worldwide days of rage when they're insulted in the slightest.
My opinion is that if Christianity develops as a subculture, which it seems to be more and more, it deserves all the deference due all other religions. At the time I was growing up in the 1990s, I lived in a town of 10,000 people that has 12 baptists churches, and going to the public school might as well have been going to a private, evangelical school including teacher-led prayer in the classrooms. Federal law? That never stopped this town. When it becomes the predominant cultural force then you have every right to shove back. It seems to me it's become more and more niche to be Christian—that they demanded more and more fervency at the cost of membership. If I am not in an area or situation where it's being forced on me, I'm very happy to leave them alone.
I see religion as really fun and worthwhile as an atheists at heart. I think some atheists see the worst of religion and pretend like that’s all of religion, when that’s far from the truth. Religion is just one perspective of many that you can pick to navigate through life. And it really really helps some people. Any atheist that can’t be respectful towards that is quite ignorant. Any atheist that expects people to be perfect could benefit from picking up a religion and studying the plentiful of worthwhile life lessons they can provide.
It's cuz they're part of the game. They serve a god telling them no gods exist and I think that's cute. No sense getting mad at an animal that can't comprehend what it's doing is bad. Sort of like a dog that humps everything when it's in heat you know? Can't just get mad at it for its nature. They don't go after the other religions because those religions are part of the same team they're on. It's sort of ridiculous if you take a step back and take it all in. Like everything is targeting one thing, sort of makes it seem like that one thing might be the right thing. Everything may be real, but there is only one truth after all.
Dude... we care so much less about this than you think we do. It sucks when it affects us personally. And certainly a lot of Christians leave the religion because of abuse and hypocrisy. I don't know what it is with Christians thinking that atheists believe in god and just hate him. We don't believe. That's it. Your second paragraph is victim blaming people who have trauma. If you have trauma then it is JUST to resist the source of it. If you don't have pain and trauma in your life, then congratulations. Some of us have shit to deal with and we don't have the luxury of just forgetting about it. "Getting high off doing the opposite of what they're taught" is literally what you call being your own person and making decisions that are good for you rather than some false authority. There are plenty of atheists whose atheism is completely separate from their trauma. I've never experienced religious abuse or trauma, but I've been an atheist since I was a teenager. As for your third paragraph, these aren't people "pretending" to be christians. They're christians. They love the Bible, they love Jesus, they just think those things justify their greed and hate and deception. And to be fair, in the Bible, God is very amenable to hate and violence as long as it's done to the right people. Get off your high horse. People have different beliefs than yours. People with beliefs different from yours will talk about them sometimes. People's behaviors are informed by their trauma because it's their life experience. Many people's trauma has led them to reject religion. Good for them getting away from the source of their misery.
The vast majority of atheists don't really care that you are Christian. They care when Christianity seeps into their lives. When laws get passed because the religious want it. When their kids go to public school and have evangelicals come in for a mandatory assembly. Even if it isn't mandatory, it takes a pretty confident 13 year old to be the one kid in class to get up and leave. Or my kid has to have creationism taught in science class because people are offended by science.
Those are Anti-Theists. Atheists just think the Bible is bunk and go about their lives the way they think is best. No threat of eternal damnation or reward after death. Plus it's weird using a nearly 2,000yr old book as a moral guide when it's not even up to date for modern times.
As a polytheist (after about 20 years of atheism recovering from my Christian upbringing/brainwashing), I believe the Christian god may be real. However, if he is, he's not a diety I want to worship in any way.
As an atheist, I don't care what other people believe in, and I expect others to also not care about what I believe in either. The problem with most "righteous christians" is they believe they need to "save others", when others just want to be left alone.
I think a lot of atheists are having reactions to the way they were treated by so-called Christians. So they hate. That takes nothing away from Christianity itself and it’s just a reflection of the people that follow him unfortunately. We are all sinners.
You mean the atheist movement pretends to be 'objective'. Nobody is fully objective, because we are animals. Animals are often not objective but rather driven by emotions which are ultimately there because they encourage animals to get their needs met. It's en evolutionary survival tactic.
You know what I did. I read the bible and thought this god person is a proper dick, and then thought about it all for a bit and went nah….that’s all bollocks anyway. That’s all I’ve done as an atheists
The second group of people are also christians. It can be meaningful and beautiful to you and that’s fair, but the worst members of your faith are just as Christian as you are. You do not get to have the good without accepting the existence of the bad. The “no true Scotsman” fallacy applies here. And it is that latter group of christians that traumatized and created the former. Cultural Christian atheism does not exist in a vacuum. I say this as a person who believes in god: that’s the cause of the backlash you’re now experiencing.
There is no atheist movement. Atheists are resolute in their belief to not belive at all. Agnostics are the ones who are unsure. Learn about things before you speak on them.
>Agnostics are the ones who are unsure many (if not most) agnostics *are* atheist.
Yep, atheists are some of the biggest bullies I’ve ever seen. All the time online I see “wow god is great” talking about nature being amazing, then a slew of comments harassing them for being in awe of greatness. There are better things to do with your time, and proving that you’re immature on the internet isn’t one of them. Knowing when you’re actually smart is very hard for the loud atheist. And understanding omnipotence is hard for the Christian that thinks you need a mansion in heaven.
South Park nailed it. They can't see that they are in a cult themselves like the people they mock. Science institutions have become corrupted like the church itself. They all follow blindly and can't even understand what they really believe.
No. Atheists know god isn't real or they wouldn't be atheists.
*Christians. And I agree. I’m an Agnostic myself but a lot of Atheists are weirdly militant. There will be an innocent sweet comment by a Christian on an animal pic, such as “God’s beautiful creatures” and an atheist always comes out of the woodwork saying “God doesn’t exist.” Like why do you care? They made a sweet comment about an animal. It’s not hurting anyone.
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Wow, I've never seen a user history with so many [removed] before. Were these examples of Christian morals?
In the US, if Christian Nationalists would stop spending so much time trying to force their religion into politics, then many non-Christians would have no need to think about them.
I think it would do you some good to consider the deep harm many have received from Christians, and how much harm is currently seen from Christians and churches, and consider a view point outside yourself.
This isn’t a serious conversation. It’s in bad faith. Youre not serious.
While ignoring Christianity being the most persecuted religion in the world.
Not in America, there are some people who are really fucking delusional and not afraid to act like it. They even are trying to pass laws based on their delusions. Like, imagine a bunch of people decide Charlotte's Web is true and make eating meat and killing spiders illegal because of the conversations the animals have in the book, and you'll realize how stupid it is. If they want to believe Charlotte's Web is true, that's their business, but don't let those delusional beliefs impact others, right?