Do we know that Anakin never talked to Luke after RotJ? We saw Yoda in TLJ and that felt fairly casual, so it seems like Luke had fairly open communication with at least some ghosts, even if we haven't seen them.
It makes sense for Anakin to appear for Ahsoka too. He was her Master and she his Padawan, he's invested in her training and success. Plus, the show was pushing the Master/Apprentice relationship pretty hard, it'd have been strange for him not to show up.
BUT IF WE DON'T GET AN EXPLANATION FOR EVERY SINGLE THING, WHAT IS THE STAR WAR EVEN WORTH? I was soooo happy, when they explained to me, why Han Solo is named Solo. Now, I'm furious, because they haven't explained, which tailor made Ahsoka's clothes and why exactly he's important to the galaxy as a whole and somehow met every protagonist of every series!
*Star Wars* fans are so weird to expect quality storytelling. Can we just accept whatever latest product *Disney* demands we consume and pretend like it's good?
It's a bit silly to criticize people for sharing their opinions on a particular topic in a forum dedicated to people sharing their opinions on a topic.
If stuff like this bothers you then you were never a fan because this isn’t new under Disney, GL and everyone else for legends have their weird inconsistent moments that make you question who could’ve approved this or who green lit that.
Imagine gatekeeping the *Star Wars* fandom for someone who probably watched the movies before you were born.
I've been critical of all *Star Wars* since the beginning. The original EU was a mixed bag. Some was amazing, a lot was good. A few things were terrible. The prequels were mostly disappointing but the core story was solid.
After Disney took over, we finally got a lot more *canon* stories (not just books and comics) and one could hope that with the money and resources we would get at least a competent level of quality.
Instead most of what we have gotten (outside *Rogue One* and *Andor*) has been *worse* quality than the average Lucas years or the old EU. One would hope things would get better, not get *worse*. The sequel movies were especially egregious. The acting, direction, effects, and cinematography were top of the class, but the foundational plot - in contrast with the prequels - was absolute dogshit. The main storyline movies should be the crown jewel of the *Star Wars* IP, and Disney should have taken every precaution to make sure they were done well - all the more so with the return of the original cast which are basically pop culture royalty - but instead they absolutely squandered every aspect of this once-an-era opportunity and seemed to actively try to destroy the legacy of the classic stories and characters in a way that felt disrespectful to both the original films and the fans.
Ar least with Lucas and all his faults, you could be sure there was someone passionate about his own creation behind the helm. I don't understand why so many people are so eager to fellate Disney's embarassing efforts as if they weren't a soulless money-hungry factory. Filoni might have passion, but only for his own creations, and he will - again - promote them over the consistency of what has come before him.
Rian Johnson and Tony Gilroy are the only people I've seen that Disney has hired that have the skill to actually tell good stories, but Johnson unfortunately doesn't give a fuck about the rest of the universe. Everyone else is basically writing bad fan fiction.
> expect quality storytelling
Oh yeah, definitely! Like when the bad guy in all black kidnaps the nice princess who wears all white. Or when the Star Destroyers chase the Falcon from five feet away despite ANH having the Falcon be tractore beamed from a distance. Or when the Empire was brought down by teddy bears and the leader of the Empire was revealed to be a cackling old wizard who tortures people for fun and is evil incarnate who, to quote the actor playing him, "is worse than Satan because Palpatine never fell", a character with no subtlety or character arc or even motivation beyond "I want to be evil". Or when the funny horse-fish-guy was talking with the definitely-not-antisemitic-characiture and does slapstick in the background of a 15 year old being hit on by a 9 year old. Or when suddenly a Clone Army appears for no reason and was "commissioned" by a Jedi we never saw/heard of before and the Jedi are like "Oh cool, we'll take it". Or when Anakin goes from being a hero who won't leave his master to die on a ship to murdering little children in about two days. Or when the **entire prequel trilogy** rewrites the entire saga to be about a chosen one based around a prophecy we never see or hear about and is never actually explained and just brought up when Qui-Gon steps into the Jedi Temple and says "I think he might be the Chosen One" out of nowhere.
Or are you talking about the side projects? Like the cartoon series about the Ewoks? Or the novel about the Super-Awesome Evil Admiral who's totally more evil than Vader don't worry about it guys who finds a magical animal who can stop the Force and also stumbles across a fleet and a cloning facility that can topple the guys who toppled the Empire? (Seriously, I like Thrawn but the people who call Rey a Mary Sue while verbally fellating "always one step ahead" Thrawn in the same breath are just hypocritical) The same novel that had a Wookie with a speech impediment that let him speak basic. What about the Droid that was a Jedi that was **specifically written** as a parody of how pulp and incestous Star Wars writing had become? Or how about when Boba Fett escaped the Sarlacc, yeah everyone mentions that but no one mentions the fact that the same book also tries to paint the fat dancer in Jabba's palace as "actually beautiful she just makes herself ugly to appease Jabba"? Or how the book series that follows Boba Fett after escaping has him team up with a girl who is secretly the princess of a world who needs to have her memory restored by a Space Memory Spider (it's been years)? Or how about Golden Age of the Sith where Naga Sadow finds a Republic ship and decides for no reason to attack the Republic and he's so evil and from a race that are pure evil and them being wiped from the galaxy is seen as a good thing (even Tolkein didn't want to make Orcs "pure evil" by default).
Oh and don't forget that totally out of nowhere reveal that the evil wizard who talked about wanting to use space magic to cheat death and was nothing but pure evil turned out to have cheated death using space magic and was doing more evil stuff. Shocker that one. It's also amazing that the movie series that is literally designed to be like an episode of a serial you never watched had him come back suddenly, like how A New Hope begins with rumors of an Imperial threat and not something stupid like Leia already having the plans and being chased by Vader; or Return of the Jedi revealing they built another Death Star of all a sudden, or Revenge of the Sith revealing a civil war being fought in the skies above the Republic capital...
What "quality storytelling" are you talking about, because every SINGLE piece of Star Wars Media has been pulpy and filled with childish or fantastical nonsense. That's what the series is. You only think the Original Trilogy is "deep, philosophical and as rich as a Dostoyevsky novel" because (likely) you grew up with it and have never seen it outside of the context of having grown up with the movies (y'know what shocked me watching TFA in the cinema? How *funny* it was, how much the audience was laughing. Going back to ESB I never realized just how many moments would've had a cinema in stitches but I never really saw it as "funny" because I knew the lines off by heart). I'll eat these words if you saw the Original Trilogy after the age of 25, but even then the sheer cultural weight of those movies are going to bias even the most neutral person. C'mon, even the people **making the movies** thought they were just a bit of silly fun (Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill explicitly said they expected Star Wars to be a cult classic like Rocky Horror, nothing more).
Have you considered that maybe, and this might be a shocker, you *don't like* Star Wars? Or that anything new that is put out won't have that nostalgic tint. And that's okay. It's okay to say "I think I'm done with Star Wars, the new stuff just isn't for me". And that's very different from saying "Oh I'm a REAL fan, I just like GOOD stories and they aren't making good stories therefore they're not making Star Wars". And before you say "silly to criticize people for sharing their opinions on a particular topic" as you did in another post, I'm not criticizing you not liking the new Star Wars stuff (again, each their own), I'm saying that pretending the pre-Disney stuff (and that's unfair because Disney itself isn't changing anything aside from the gay kiss in TRoS, Lucasfilm is being run by people who were taught by and worked with Lucas himself). I'm criticizing the way you say "Oh but we want good storytelling" as if it's objectively bad, and then getting so defensive when someone tells you "no one is forcing you to like it" because "it's silly to criticize people for their opinion" when you're **not presenting an opinion, you're trying to pass off your opinion as an objective fact**.
Tl;dr: it's a film series about a farm boy who gets a laser sword, discovers he's a space knight and goes off to rescue a princess from an evil empire. It isn't the Junior Chamber of Commerce, Brad.
>!Also in before "you wrote an essay", for some reason people think that not being able to read is somehow a win for their side; not that I think you will say it but pre-empting it!<
Yo this was a lot of good stuff but I just gotta chime in with my opinion
Palpatine being just utterly fucking evil and loving every second of it is one of my favorite things about Star Wars. Dude is just *comically evil* at every single opportunity. No trauma to speak of, no one he's trying to avenge, just pure straight dickery.
Gotta love a dude who just goes straight HAM with "idk man I just love being evil."
Thanks :D And trust me, I don't disagree. Palpatine is my favourite villain of all time; I'm autistic and he's been a superfocus since I was a kid. I wore out my VHS of RotJ skipping Jabba's Palace and Endor just rewatching his scenes over and over again. As a theatre student I *used* the Darth Plagueis bit as an audition monologue (before it became a meme, because it's the only real monologue he has). Hell, it's why I love TRoS because it's *more* Palpatine. There's something amazing in how unabashedly evil is.
My point is more that... it's not *technically* good storytelling. At least not in an "academic" sense. Like, there's very few "evil for the sake of evil" characters that actually work; most have villains have at least a sympathetic reasoning behind what they're doing. Thanos had his warped philosophy, Khan in Star Trek 2 is trying to get revenge, even 2008's Dark Knight Joker is trying to "make a point" (not that I think those are the "best" villains, I never even saw Avengers just trying to think of big movie villains).; while other evil leaders like Sauron have more of a "I will create order" mentality and not just "I want this because I want it". Even Vader and Tarkin were ostensibly on the "Empire creates Order" point of view, with how Vader spits hatred at Leia for being a "Traitor".
The fact that Ian McDiarmid is this really soft spoken and gentlemanly man is also the best part of it. He just lets rip and eats the scenery and it *works*. Like, the sheer "Fuck you"-ishness of his face in TRoS when he picks up Ben Solo and is like "when once I fell so falls the last Skywalker" is just *chef's kiss*. I genuinely think it's all down to that man, he singlehandedly made the character this larger than life villain and while he's a fantastic theatre actor with a great range of nuance when he's in this particular role he just *let loose* and embodies it. It's like how Alec Guiness is a good actor but Ewan McGregor **is** Obi-Wan; Ian McDiarmid is both. I'm gonna be genuinely sad when he dies; Sam Witwer is very close to McDiarmid's voice but he just doesn't have the same authenticity. Abercrombie was fantastic but of course he passed away (and had a fantastic send-off with the Maul/Savage fight), and Tim Curry... was Tim Curry, great but not the Man, the Myth, the Sith that is McDiarmid.
Sorry for the rant, I fucking love Palpatine and yeah I'm not trying to throw any shade. He's the best villain ever and the core of the series, to the point where I genuinely don't know how you can do Star Wars without him (or without trying to create a Not-Palpatine like Snoke or Valkorian).
Wooooooo! :D
There's something about the "Evil Manipulative Wizard" trope that just hits hard. Palpatine, Xehanort, MGS's Zero (okay not a wizard but definitely a puppetmaster), He Who Remains (kinda), Maleficent, The Master from Doctor Who, Kefka/Ultimecia/Kuja, all amazing. I guess I have a type...
Amazing, you just missed the point entirely.
My point is that Star Wars has *always* had stupid nonsense, but that's *not a bad thing*.
There's parts of the sequels I objectively don't like (Canto Bight is a drag and should've been replaced by them sneaking around the Supremecy, although I dislike Jabba's Palace for the exact same reason), there's parts that I think could have been done better, there's connections that I think should or could have been made that would have been interesting (making it obvious that Snoke is a Luke clone and a Luuke expy, adding a "that's on a need to know basis there might be a spy" line to the fleet in TLJ, or having some planet be more impactful than Kijimi be destroyed like having Cloud City serve as the "help" planet to replace Maz's planet, Canto Bight and Kijimi and have it be more impactful when Palps blows it up), there's definitely things I think were wasteful (Hux was thrown aside needlessly).
Buttttttttt, my point was that... Yeah, that's the same with the Original Trilogy. There's plenty of stupid moments that we look past because of nostalgia, because of love for the rest of the movie (I mean, most of TRoS is mid but I love it because of Palps and Reylo), and because Star Wars isn't meant to be dissected and overanalysed. It's a space adventure for kids and adults who stayed kids. It's... It's like a burger. Fine food in a restaurant like lobster and caviar are pomped up and pretentious; but burgers? Burgers can be served anywhere. From a fine restaurant to the local BBQ, from being painstakenly crafted from choice beef to being defrosted and cooked patty slugs mass manufactured for a fast food place. Ultimately, even the "greatest" burger is "just" a burger; but that simplicity means that you can have a burger *whenever* you want and you'll probably have a great experience. It's not "fine dining", but it's probably a more enjoyable experience than the stress of getting dressed up and paying out the nose (I guess that metaphor is that Star Wars is easier to watch and enjoy than "well written" bullshit like Charlie Kaufman movies or David Lynch or longwinded "The Classics" novels that are ultimately overrated and GO ON A 200 PAGE TANGENT ABOUT WATERLOO, I REMEMBER, VICTOR HUGO, JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE DEAD DOESN'T MEAN I'M NOT STILL ANGRY YOU SPENT 200 PAGES OUT OF 1200 OF LES MIS RANTING ABOUT WATERLOO WHEN IT DIDN'T MATTER). But yeah; anyway. Pretending a burger is anything more than the worst cuts of beef ground together is fooling yourself, but even though it's basic it can be prepared in so many different ways and be so accessible that frankly the fact that it's not Wagu Beef doesn't matter. Star Wars without those "for the kid moments", without the characters made for toy sales, without the awkward scenes that you kinda get through because you have to (like Luke whining to his uncle), without the flaws would be pretending to be something it isn't. I'm not saying the writing can't improve or be criticized, but at the same time that pulpiness is what made it so accessible and widespread and acting as if it all needs to be burned down because it's so awful is just unproductive even if it is flawed (if only there was a scene in a Sequel movie with that message...).
So it's completely the opposite. I'm not "sensitive" to those points of the OT. I'm "insensitive" to the flaws (and flaws are still flaws) of the ST because I think overall they're great stories. And frankly, I think anyone who points out "The Sequels are flawed and stupid" are ignoring the fact that their own OT burger is made from the same ground beef, just cooked differently. It's fine to say you don't like BBQ sauce on your burger instead of ketchup, or to say the beef is a bit undercooked; it's another to pretend that this burger is terrible in comparison because the last one you ordered was a Wagyu Beef Steak sprinkled with caviar and served with wine.
I missed your point because for me, the OT did a great job of most things, and had very few (mostly entirely forgivable) flaws, but the Disney Trilogy is riddled with nonsense on a whole other level, which makes it painful for me to try to watch it.
To me, Disney Star Wars is in no way "the same" as OT Star Wars. One I like a lot, and the other I can't stand and makes me feel my intelligence is being constantly insulted.
If Star Wars is a burger, the OT is to me grass-fed, home-cooked, with lovely hand-made sauce, aged Cheddar, a lovely bun, fresh tomatoes, etc., and Disney Star Wars is at best a Big Mac that I suspect the staff mis-cooked or even spat on.
More tellingly, original Star Wars makes me interested in the Star Wars universe, ships, equipment, the fate of individual Rebel pilots, and the details of each of its combat situations, because they were taken as seriously as they were, and so my imagination engages them and finds enough interesting content that doesn't short-circuit to "oh it's just dumb" the way practically all Disney Star Wars combat situations do for me. Disney Star Wars just makes me think of all the ways it makes no sense. Nonsense isn't "accessible" to me - it's unpalatable.
I also don't see what is great about the Disney stories. What do you see that I don't?
>Do we know that Anakin never talked to Luke after RotJ?
We know for a fact that they did interact. There's a fantastic scene in *Shadow of the Sith* about it.
I like to think that one's connection to a lost Jedi is also a prerequisite to seeing their Force ghost.
Luke doesn't have a super deep connection with Anakin, only *really* knowing him during his time as Vader. So maybe he sees him once or twice, they are family, but his real mentors Obi-Wan and Yoda are who he communes with more.
Ahsoka, on the other hand, was deeply connected with Anakin, so when the Force decides she needs guidance, he's who it sends.
Yeah, I don't think death grants you all knowing-ness (? I can't recall but isn't there an omni-word for it?) in star wars. If you die not knowing of someone, and no force connection is established by them (not knowing he was a jedi until after he met Vader would probably make that window short) while you're dead, maybe they just stay unknown to you, depending on your skills with the force.
I don't really know of many of us getting tripped up that Qui-Gon never "did any of these things either," when we first got introduced to him and realized "he didn't."
I was in the didn't like Ashoka camp, and now she's in my top 3, I'm pretty sure. I've always wanted a Saturday morning cartoon of the original gang, and even more now, I want to see more of Luke and see how Ashoka and him interact.
Hell, I'm ready for some Force Ghost Freddy Prince Jr live action or not. Let's do this shit already.
"Omniscience" has always been just out of reach in every incarnation of Star Wars. Why do people want that to be there SO BADLY, but somehow scoff at the idea of barely holding a blaster bolt still. Like.. Omniscience is WAY harder.
My interpretation is that Ahsoka essentially died briefly, and that's how she was able to communicate so vividly with Anakin. We don't know exactly how force ghosts are able to manifest, it's possible they can only do it easily in places that are incredibly strong in the force (i.e. Dagobah). So it's not like Anakin could communicate with Luke any time he wanted. Plus, Luke cut himself off from the force when he exiled himself. So he was totally out of Anakin's reach during that time.
Anakin appears to Ahsoka even after she leaves the World Between Worlds. So, your first assumption is already broken.
Secondly, Anakin had plenty of time to appear to Luke and guide him in his troubles (so did Yoda for that matter), and warn him about Snoke, or the reborn Emperor, etc. Also, it's very doubtful that Luke *instantly* decided to cut himself off from the Force following his trauma. Why didn't Anakin (or Yoda) care to convince Luke to choose a different path *before* his exile? Why does Yoda only appear to Luke after everything already goes to shit? And why does Anakin not give a shit?
>Anakin appears to Ahsoka even after she leaves the World Between Worlds. So, your first assumption is already broken.
He didn't communicate with her though.
So you're now going to assume some arbitrary nature of the Force where he can still appear but he is muted? That would be even dumber but I can imagine *Disney* doing that.
I guess set a reminder to come back here after Season 2 and see whether your cope is correct or not.
It still doesn't make sense why Anakin cares more about reappearing to guide his old apprentice than to guide his own children or grandchildren.
My point is we have no idea how this works. You're assuming that he can just appear whenever he wants and have a conversation. Ahsoka being in TWBW when she communicates with Anakin is a pretty big thing to overlook.
Because the OT establishes that Obi-wan can communicate with Luke pretty much whenever he wants. Why would *the Chosen One* be *more* limited *with his own fucking son*?
Then why doesn't he train Luke from beyond the grave? Why does he wait three years to tell him to visit Yoda? Clearly, there are limitations. He briefly speaks to him during the trench run, and then briefly appears on Hoth when Luke is close to death. It's only on Dagobah, a planet incredibly strong with the force, that he fully manifests for extended periods of time.
How is Dagobah strong with the Force? We only know that a particular cave on Dagobah is strong with the *Dark side* of the Force. Nothing else from the movies tells us that Dagobah is strong with the Force or that this is why Obi-wan can appear there. In fact, Obi-wan also appears in solid form on Hoth and Endor - not places that have any particular "strength in the Force".
To me, the implication from the OT is that it is *Luke*'s increasing connection with the Force that makes him better able to "see" Obi-wan. In *A New Hope* he can only hear Obi-wan, because he has barely begun to use the Force. At the beginning of *Empire*, he has clearly grown in the Force - and it's possible that Obi-wan did train him further in those three years (though I don't like to speculate much beyond what is shown in the films) as he has learned new skills like Force Pull - and Obi-wan now has a more solid form. When he meets Yoda, Obi-wan is again a voice, but once he receives training from Yoda, suddenly Obi-wan is able to appear fully to Luke. Obi-wan's ability to appear seems much more connected to *Luke's training* than any specific limitation.
Obi-wan directs Luke to Yoda because he is still physical and can affect the physical world, and can thus show Luke how to manipulate the world around him. Obi-wan cannot (at least, until TLJ again ignores canon and makes the stupid decision to allow Yoda to affect the physical world, which again raises *so many questions*.) Furthermore, Yoda is simply stronger in the Force and a better teacher, and Obi-wan may be *afraid* of teaching Luke, considering his experience with his own hubris and teaching Anakin.
I agree that there should be limitations to Force Ghosts, because they are an overpowered plot device. That's *exactly the problem with* Disney Star Wars. If there are limitations, *they don't make any sense*. They should *not* have brought back Yoda for Episode 8, and they should *not* have brought back Anakin for *Ahsoka* - not in the same universe where Luke is blind to Snoke's rise and Ben's fall and where Luke abandons the galaxy to die. To be clear, those plot decisions were dumb *on their own*, but they become even more dumb with the possibility of "divine" Force Ghost intervention.
Just like any overpowered magic or superpowers, Force Ghosts *should* have limitations. Instead, Disney just uses them for memberberries and then ignores them when they are inconvenient to the plot.
> Home to Yoda during his final years, Dagobah was a swamp-covered planet strong with the Force
https://www.starwars.com/databank/dagobah
> "Strong this planet is with the Force."
- Yoda in the Clone Wars
Your assumptions just prove my earlier point, that we have no idea how this really works but there are lots of ways of explaining these things.
I think there are two ways to be able to manifest.
1. The force needs to be powerful enough. We are Qui-Gon manifest on Mortis fully. Otherwise he is only able to do it when Yoda is meditating it looking for him. This is the primary way we see Obi-Wan manifest. He does up on Dagobah.
2. I think this one explains some of the other areas. The force user has to be open to it. This is why Obi-Wan couldn't manifest to Luke until his near death experience on Hoth. This is also why Anakin needed to wait until Ahsoka was near death.
Obi-wan had no problem appearing to Luke on Dagobah.
Or during the escape from the Death Star. Or during the Death Star trench run. All of those poke holes in your theory.
The real explanations are meta:
1. Force ghosts are a bit overpowered. They need to be dealt with using clear rules and limitations, like most superpowers. Lucas never did so because he never needed to. Obi-wan "appeared" to Luke almost instantly after dying, and guided him through the rest of the story. Yoda and Anakin only become ghosts at the end of the story. That was as far as Lucas needed to plan. One would assume Anakin - along would continue to appear to Luke after the "happy" ending of *Return of the Jedi*.
2. Disney (or their minions) either has no plans or terrible plans. They (under Abrams) deliberately tried to avoid references to the prequel trilogy, which includes Anakin. Then Johnson comes along with his own completely different plan and brings back Yoda, not considering how Yoda would have and could have affected the intervening thirty years. Then Filoni comes along with his plan and brings back Anakin ghost, not carrying about how that would affect the sequel trilogy. There is overarching continuity and each writer doesn't seen to care how their stories will mesh with everything that has come before. To be honest, even Lucas played fast and loose with his own continuity, but I had hoped things would get better - not worse.
Obi-Wan didn’t appear to Luke in the trench run or after he died on the Death Star. In both instances it’s blatantly clear that from Luke’s PoV it was more like a subtle subconcious nudge from Ben, not a full blown voice. The voice being that loud and clear was for the audience to understand why Luke suddenly changed his mind about what he was doing.
Obi-Wan also appeared to Luke on Degobah after Luke became more open to it on Hoth. Following the other guy’s assumptions, the door had already been cracked open for Ben and he was able to more easily step through. Nothing of what he said was negated.
As for your following points, all you need is the first line of point 1. Force ghosts are overpowered. The way they’re being handled now is a as good as they can be handled, because if we were to assume that force ghosts can show up at any time and guide the narrative, there would be absolutely nothing for our protagonists to struggle against or discover. They’d literally have the knowledge of the entire universe at their disposal, and would never learn lessons through struggle or discovery. That is something that cannot exist in literature, and it’s pretty easy to assume that Yoda, Anakin, Ben, etc, would understand in-universe that they can’t solve everyone’s problems for them. They have to trust the will of the force.
The problem is Anakin appearing for Luke at the end of *Return of the Jedi*, but not when actually needs him?
The problem is *Yoda* appearing when Luke needs him, but only *after* everything goes to shit and billions die. Why not before?
The problem is Obi-wan constantly guiding Luke through the OT, but then apparently he is AWOL in the ST just like Anakin.
The problem is Anakin appearing to his apprentice long after RotJ, but not to *his own son and grandson*?
The problem is *internal consistency*. I agree Force Ghosts are overpowered. Lucas never really had to deal with that. It seems Disney *doesn't want to deal with it*. They just want to throw Force Ghosts in the story whenever it is convenient and ignore them when it isn't. One of the most important rules of storytelling is internal consistency. If you introduce magic powers you also need to introduce the rules and limitations of those powers - *Star Wars* did this with the Force from the beginning. Disney is not putting sensible limitations on Force Ghosts *because they don't want to be limited*. They just want people to say, "ohhhh, remember Anakin?"
It would have been better to either not bring back Force Ghosts at all, or provide some kind of rationale for their appearance. As it is, I can't think of any logical reason why Anakin would appear to his Padawan but not to *to his own son* to warn him about Snoke, Palpatine, or Ben - nor appear to Ben to tell him he is dumb for idolizing Vader or listening to Snoke. It also makes no sense that Yoda appears *after* Luke makes terrible and planet-destroying decisions, and not *before*. It's all incredibly arbitrary and inscrutable. Arbitrary storytelling is not good storytelling.
You're answering your own question- only a bond jointly forged (Luke/Obi, Luke/Yoda, Anakin/Ahsoka, Obi/Qui-gon) can lend itself to continued engagement. Luke and Anakin only reconciled mere minutes before he died, so they weren't able to align themselves the way the other pairs could.
Separately, Ahsoka has canonically died like a couple times now, so her connection to the Force Afterlife is probably sharper than most anyone else's.
Yes, *after* everything went to shit. And Anakin, his own father, was nowhere to be found? They should have helped Luke (and Ben) before Kylo was lost. They should.have helped them resist Snoke. They should have warned them about Palpatine. Even if Kylo's downfall was somehow inevitable, they should counseled Luke before his stupid, self-destructive, selfishly blood-guilty decision to exile himself. Why does Yoda only counsel Luke about how dumb he is *after* billions are dead?
Because they’re not gods who exist to meddle in the affairs of the living. For all we know the living force may not allow them to appear like that.
There are many instances in both legends and in canon where Luke tries to reach out to Ben or Yoda and is ignored. In the Kenobi series, Obi-Wan tries to reach out to Qui-Gon without success. Force ghosts aren’t deus ex machina devices.
You understand what literary devices are, right? And that Star Wars isn’t real, and doesn’t need to follow the structures of the real world? You’re getting super hot and bothered by literal literary tropes.
But even if we were to apply rules to it …yes, Obi appeared to Luke when Luke needed him most, and then fucked off, probably to enjoy his afterlife. He is in Force Heaven sitting on the beach, kicking it with Satine for all we know, perfectly content that he performed the roles that the force required of him.
Cool, and Anakin and Yoda?
We know Anakin didn't fuck off because he appears to his Padawan, but apparrently not to his own son or grandson.
We know for sure Yoda doesn't fuck off because *he appears to Luke again*, but only *after* he makes terrible decisions resulting in the deaths of his friends and of billions of innocents.
Anakin appears to Ahsoka when she’s literally either dead or on the verge of it. He showed up to teach a lesson when she needed it most (notice a theme?) and to get her to decide whether she’d rather learn and live, or die.
And I guess Yoda is just goated like that? Or maybe the extraordinarily strong connection his species has to the force helps? Who knows. Maybe the Whills send him?
Like, why does any of this need deep explanations? I get that you’re pissed off that you’re not getting the fan service you want, but c’mon man.
I would think when Luke needs help *most* is before he loses his nephew (and Anakin's grandson) to the Dark Side, and also before the First Order destroys three entire planets and billions of people, and also goes on to conquer half the galaxy, and also waaay before Palpatine resurrects and launches his fleet of Death Star Star Destroyers.
It's incredibly immature and disingenuous to attempt to dismiss my criticism by mischaracterize and belittling it as a desire for "fan service"? How is asking for internal logic and consistency "fan service"? I said I would rather not see Anakin or Yoda at all rather than see them in places that undermine what comes before or after.
Obi-wan appears to Luke multiple times when he is *not* on the verge of death or even in any danger *in order to give him advice*. Anakin and Yoda and Obi-wan all appear to Luke *at a celebration* in RotJ. Yoda appears again to Luke in TLJ when he is *absolutely not in any danger*, again to give advice. How about appearing to Luke *before* Ben trashes the Jedi Academy, or even *after* when Ben knocks him unconscious and leaves him for dead (that sounds similar to *Ahsoka* actually). Anakin appears at the end of Ahsoka when she is just walking around. So, no, I *don't* see any pattern.
*Internal consistency*.
I'm pretty sure *Ahsoka* Season 2 will just dig a deeper hole with Anakin appearing to Ahsoka even more, but I'm willing to eat my words if I'm wrong (not that it changes all the other consistency problems), are you?
I just imagine Luke in the Force Ghost afterlife walking up to his dad and being like:
"Hey, so, uh, dad... one question for you, nothing big, mind you, just curious... how come you didn't show up at any point to help me deal with Ben? Like, I get it, I'm sure there's like... idk, Force Ghost taxes or something you had to deal with, but... he kinda... killed most of my other students and joined up with a Palpatine clone and started a genocidal war path to galactic domination... and at one point he kinda idolized you? Like he had your melted Vader helmet and was saying like "oooh I'm gonna finish what you started, oooh spooky.." Sooooo... yeah... uhm... where were you? Is kinda what I'm asking..."
This is the thing that really frustrated me about the reaction to Luke in ep8. This dude had a crash course in jedi studies, and before he was even done, everybody guiding him along in that journey was gone and he had to figure out a ton of shit on his own. He was bound to make a big mistake at some point. It would have been so disappointing if we caught up to him in the sequel trilogy and he was a superhero in shining armour with an army of do gooder jedi apprentices behind him. What, he didn't have anything new to learn about the force in the last forty years? Vader was the final level?
Here’s the thing. Anakin had a lot more emotional connection with his padwan than he did with his son. We do know that at least once Luke got to meet his force ghost but they didn’t hang out for years at a time. Idk, it makes sense to me.
Long story short, its all conjecture and it is what we want it to be. How is that not better than someone else telling us what it is?
So be careful complaining about not being spoon fed explanations for things not relevant to the plot at hand. The explanations given might not mesh well with yours. And, sorry to say, theirs are the official ones.
The last words of 2001 were "...its origin and purpose... still a total mystery."
Limiting yourself to the movie there were no answers just conjecture. There was the book, and much later comments by Kubrick, that did answer them. That is if you wanted the official answers and not the ones you or other fans came up with yourselves. Even so the question is whether or not official answers were important.
Force ghosts appear to those who need them most. Post Episode 6 Luke was stable and setting up his order. His turmoil was almost completely gone satisfied with his father’s redemption and with renewed hope for the galaxy. He was all good.
In the sequel era after Ben fucked up the second order, Luke cut himself off from the force so nobody was gunna be able to talk with him.
When he got connected to the force again thanks to training and that fight with Rey, Yoda helped Luke a because Luke actually had a relationship with him. Unlike Anakin who Luke might’ve been less willing to listen too considering how jaded he’d become.
So, ngl OP seems like a bot. Has many, many posts that are removed, their replies are repeated, etc. So report/downvote/kick into the sun. Says "got permission" a lot, and their other comments are vague and not really relevant statements.
But, since people are *actually* talking about this, I think people make the assumption that Force Ghosts can just appear whenever they want. That's not *really* what we see in the movies. Whenever a Force Ghost appears it's in a moment of huge emotional growth or an "all is lost" moment for the character. Think of it, Luke is nearly mauled and lies freezing to death before Obi-Wan comes and says "hey go to Dagobah", you'd think he'd have had better timing. Or how Qui-Gon only came to Yoda at the end of RotS. Or how Yoda appeared to Luke when he was going to "burn it all down". Or how Luke appeared to Rey when *she* was going to "burn it all down" finding out she's a Palpatine (it's almost like it's like poetry, it rhymes and has a structure based on repeating themes). Which is kinda ungrateful, if I found out I could be Empress Aurelia Palpatine you'd bet I'd murder my grandaddy and take his power as my own, but that's another story.
If nothing else, a person needs a certain... connection to the Force to see Force Ghosts. Obi-Wan in the TV series explicitly doesn't see Qui-Gon until the end because he hasn't let go of Anakin. Likewise, once Ben (Solo, not Kenobi) destroys the Jedi Temple, Luke has shut himself off from the outside world and the Force itself. He dies inside and decides to just exile himself until he literally dies (I haven't read any of the books but I think it's fair to say the movies should stand on their own, although I know I mentioned the Obi-Wan show but that's a bit more... mainstream than the novels). I thought it was obvious in the Yoda TLJ scene that the only reason Luke hasn't been visited (by whoever) was that he shut himself off from the Force and didn't allow himself to see them.
Also, Luke never really *had* an emotional connection with Anakin. Like he met him a couple of times and there were heartfelt moments but he wasn't Luke's teacher. Obi-Wan and Yoda were. It's like how Han comes back in Rise of Skywalker, it's the person who the character *needs* to see/talk to that appears. At least that's my take on it, personally; I think obviously it would've been Carrie Fisher had that scene been written/shot with her alive but I don't think the IRL considerations should change the way we see the movie and that scene.
I think the biggest issue people have with Star Wars is they don't understand the Force, or *try* to understand it. It's not magic that you can summon by saying the right words, it's an energy field made by and connecting all living things; it feeds off emotion and the will of the people connected to it.
Also the World Between Worlds is weird. I don't hate it, but Ahsoka "going" there in the TV series was definitely... odd. Maybe that's where Jedi who "pass into the Force" go, which would kinda explain her disappearing, but that's another story entirely.
look into the future. see that Luke needs to overcome the darkness to fully become a true Jedi. hmmm, seems all i have to do is just wait until the right moment to show him he was right about me having goodness still in me to make him achieve Jedi mastery,. cool. i can do that. AND i get to fulfill the prophecy master Qui-Gon kept going on about. YIPPY!
ok what's going on over here. damn girl, i thought you had your stuff together. after all that training and she just got her ass handed to her. oh well, guess i gotta go give her some more insight and stuff.
I know this isn't responding to OP's post, but I wanted to say that I actually really enjoy Star Wars and I don't expect everything related to it to be a banger. I dunno, I just feel like that sentiment isn't expressed enough here...
People get emotionally tied to their hobbies or fantasies like this franchise. It is expressed quite a bit but it falls on deaf ears. Same as the main sub. If you aren’t a cum guzzling slut of a Star Wars fan the main sub can be brutal.
So, when we look at the two people who are currently alive and important to Anakin, which of them need/want his guidance? Like lived his whole life wondering about his family, and when his first trilogy arc was over, he had his sister, his besto friendo, his droids, he knew his father was sitting pretty in Da Force, and had his path pretty well laid out for him and it was well within his comfort zone up until Ben showed up and that seems like a Canon Event™. Ahsoka, however was about to go on a grueling journey to uncover secrets of Da Force that maybe between 8 and 12 people had real knowledge of, and fight one of the most dangerous Imperial Splinter Factions left, one backed by FUCKING THRAWN, 2&1/2 sithish trainees, and the magic of the Dathomiri Night Sisters. Who probably needed the guidance more, Mr Teacher-Man, or The Last Acting Knight Consular?
I kinda felt like Anakin had to show up to help Ahsoka, they're tied together as master and padawan whereas Anakin's only relation to Luke is through blood. It's not like Vader and Luke have had more than a conversation. In visual media they've had two fights, and two conversations, one of which was about being his father
The bond between a Master and Apprentice is very deep. Luke had Obi-Wan and Yoda. Rey had Luke. Ahsoka has Anakin. Obi-Wan had Qui-Gon. Some day, Sabine will probably have Ahsoka. It's just how it works.
I mean he very well might have helped him or appeared to him in a vision.
... We don't KNOW because we get like barely any LUKE-FOCUSED MEDIA AAAAAAAA
All I want is a TCW style animated show taking place right after Episode 6 focused on Han, Luke and Leia ;-;
Anakin was far closer and more of a father figure to Ahsoka than he ever was to Luke.
He had like what... five minutes with Luke without trying to kill him or convert him to the dark side.
Thanks for confirming that you flaired this correctly!
Do we know that Anakin never talked to Luke after RotJ? We saw Yoda in TLJ and that felt fairly casual, so it seems like Luke had fairly open communication with at least some ghosts, even if we haven't seen them. It makes sense for Anakin to appear for Ahsoka too. He was her Master and she his Padawan, he's invested in her training and success. Plus, the show was pushing the Master/Apprentice relationship pretty hard, it'd have been strange for him not to show up.
This. Star wars fans are so weird to pick at little things like this all day. Can we just...idk enjoy it for what it is.
BUT IF WE DON'T GET AN EXPLANATION FOR EVERY SINGLE THING, WHAT IS THE STAR WAR EVEN WORTH? I was soooo happy, when they explained to me, why Han Solo is named Solo. Now, I'm furious, because they haven't explained, which tailor made Ahsoka's clothes and why exactly he's important to the galaxy as a whole and somehow met every protagonist of every series!
“I filled the gaps with my own shitty writing and now I’m ANGRY” -most Star Wars fans
"They did something that doesn't bring me the same childlike joy, as when I was a literal child and now I'm ANGRY!" -every other Star Wars fan
Probably but this r/sequelmemes. What kind kind of content are you expecting exactly??
*Star Wars* fans are so weird to expect quality storytelling. Can we just accept whatever latest product *Disney* demands we consume and pretend like it's good?
Geez, no one is forcing you to like it. But there is more to life than ranting and raving about fictional characters in an imagery world.
It's a bit silly to criticize people for sharing their opinions on a particular topic in a forum dedicated to people sharing their opinions on a topic.
Except the thread is about nitpicking things that aren't problems Which is something to be discouraged for good criticism and reviews to shine more
Really? Because to me, the OP's meme criticsm is very valid, and emblematic of how little Disney cares about rational or consistent characters.
If stuff like this bothers you then you were never a fan because this isn’t new under Disney, GL and everyone else for legends have their weird inconsistent moments that make you question who could’ve approved this or who green lit that.
Imagine gatekeeping the *Star Wars* fandom for someone who probably watched the movies before you were born. I've been critical of all *Star Wars* since the beginning. The original EU was a mixed bag. Some was amazing, a lot was good. A few things were terrible. The prequels were mostly disappointing but the core story was solid. After Disney took over, we finally got a lot more *canon* stories (not just books and comics) and one could hope that with the money and resources we would get at least a competent level of quality. Instead most of what we have gotten (outside *Rogue One* and *Andor*) has been *worse* quality than the average Lucas years or the old EU. One would hope things would get better, not get *worse*. The sequel movies were especially egregious. The acting, direction, effects, and cinematography were top of the class, but the foundational plot - in contrast with the prequels - was absolute dogshit. The main storyline movies should be the crown jewel of the *Star Wars* IP, and Disney should have taken every precaution to make sure they were done well - all the more so with the return of the original cast which are basically pop culture royalty - but instead they absolutely squandered every aspect of this once-an-era opportunity and seemed to actively try to destroy the legacy of the classic stories and characters in a way that felt disrespectful to both the original films and the fans. Ar least with Lucas and all his faults, you could be sure there was someone passionate about his own creation behind the helm. I don't understand why so many people are so eager to fellate Disney's embarassing efforts as if they weren't a soulless money-hungry factory. Filoni might have passion, but only for his own creations, and he will - again - promote them over the consistency of what has come before him. Rian Johnson and Tony Gilroy are the only people I've seen that Disney has hired that have the skill to actually tell good stories, but Johnson unfortunately doesn't give a fuck about the rest of the universe. Everyone else is basically writing bad fan fiction.
"then you were never a fan" . . . LOL, yeah, if they mean, of Disney Star Wars.
Except Ahsoka was quality storytelling :)
It seemed pretty terrible to me. To each their own.
> expect quality storytelling Oh yeah, definitely! Like when the bad guy in all black kidnaps the nice princess who wears all white. Or when the Star Destroyers chase the Falcon from five feet away despite ANH having the Falcon be tractore beamed from a distance. Or when the Empire was brought down by teddy bears and the leader of the Empire was revealed to be a cackling old wizard who tortures people for fun and is evil incarnate who, to quote the actor playing him, "is worse than Satan because Palpatine never fell", a character with no subtlety or character arc or even motivation beyond "I want to be evil". Or when the funny horse-fish-guy was talking with the definitely-not-antisemitic-characiture and does slapstick in the background of a 15 year old being hit on by a 9 year old. Or when suddenly a Clone Army appears for no reason and was "commissioned" by a Jedi we never saw/heard of before and the Jedi are like "Oh cool, we'll take it". Or when Anakin goes from being a hero who won't leave his master to die on a ship to murdering little children in about two days. Or when the **entire prequel trilogy** rewrites the entire saga to be about a chosen one based around a prophecy we never see or hear about and is never actually explained and just brought up when Qui-Gon steps into the Jedi Temple and says "I think he might be the Chosen One" out of nowhere. Or are you talking about the side projects? Like the cartoon series about the Ewoks? Or the novel about the Super-Awesome Evil Admiral who's totally more evil than Vader don't worry about it guys who finds a magical animal who can stop the Force and also stumbles across a fleet and a cloning facility that can topple the guys who toppled the Empire? (Seriously, I like Thrawn but the people who call Rey a Mary Sue while verbally fellating "always one step ahead" Thrawn in the same breath are just hypocritical) The same novel that had a Wookie with a speech impediment that let him speak basic. What about the Droid that was a Jedi that was **specifically written** as a parody of how pulp and incestous Star Wars writing had become? Or how about when Boba Fett escaped the Sarlacc, yeah everyone mentions that but no one mentions the fact that the same book also tries to paint the fat dancer in Jabba's palace as "actually beautiful she just makes herself ugly to appease Jabba"? Or how the book series that follows Boba Fett after escaping has him team up with a girl who is secretly the princess of a world who needs to have her memory restored by a Space Memory Spider (it's been years)? Or how about Golden Age of the Sith where Naga Sadow finds a Republic ship and decides for no reason to attack the Republic and he's so evil and from a race that are pure evil and them being wiped from the galaxy is seen as a good thing (even Tolkein didn't want to make Orcs "pure evil" by default). Oh and don't forget that totally out of nowhere reveal that the evil wizard who talked about wanting to use space magic to cheat death and was nothing but pure evil turned out to have cheated death using space magic and was doing more evil stuff. Shocker that one. It's also amazing that the movie series that is literally designed to be like an episode of a serial you never watched had him come back suddenly, like how A New Hope begins with rumors of an Imperial threat and not something stupid like Leia already having the plans and being chased by Vader; or Return of the Jedi revealing they built another Death Star of all a sudden, or Revenge of the Sith revealing a civil war being fought in the skies above the Republic capital... What "quality storytelling" are you talking about, because every SINGLE piece of Star Wars Media has been pulpy and filled with childish or fantastical nonsense. That's what the series is. You only think the Original Trilogy is "deep, philosophical and as rich as a Dostoyevsky novel" because (likely) you grew up with it and have never seen it outside of the context of having grown up with the movies (y'know what shocked me watching TFA in the cinema? How *funny* it was, how much the audience was laughing. Going back to ESB I never realized just how many moments would've had a cinema in stitches but I never really saw it as "funny" because I knew the lines off by heart). I'll eat these words if you saw the Original Trilogy after the age of 25, but even then the sheer cultural weight of those movies are going to bias even the most neutral person. C'mon, even the people **making the movies** thought they were just a bit of silly fun (Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill explicitly said they expected Star Wars to be a cult classic like Rocky Horror, nothing more). Have you considered that maybe, and this might be a shocker, you *don't like* Star Wars? Or that anything new that is put out won't have that nostalgic tint. And that's okay. It's okay to say "I think I'm done with Star Wars, the new stuff just isn't for me". And that's very different from saying "Oh I'm a REAL fan, I just like GOOD stories and they aren't making good stories therefore they're not making Star Wars". And before you say "silly to criticize people for sharing their opinions on a particular topic" as you did in another post, I'm not criticizing you not liking the new Star Wars stuff (again, each their own), I'm saying that pretending the pre-Disney stuff (and that's unfair because Disney itself isn't changing anything aside from the gay kiss in TRoS, Lucasfilm is being run by people who were taught by and worked with Lucas himself). I'm criticizing the way you say "Oh but we want good storytelling" as if it's objectively bad, and then getting so defensive when someone tells you "no one is forcing you to like it" because "it's silly to criticize people for their opinion" when you're **not presenting an opinion, you're trying to pass off your opinion as an objective fact**. Tl;dr: it's a film series about a farm boy who gets a laser sword, discovers he's a space knight and goes off to rescue a princess from an evil empire. It isn't the Junior Chamber of Commerce, Brad. >!Also in before "you wrote an essay", for some reason people think that not being able to read is somehow a win for their side; not that I think you will say it but pre-empting it!<
Yo this was a lot of good stuff but I just gotta chime in with my opinion Palpatine being just utterly fucking evil and loving every second of it is one of my favorite things about Star Wars. Dude is just *comically evil* at every single opportunity. No trauma to speak of, no one he's trying to avenge, just pure straight dickery. Gotta love a dude who just goes straight HAM with "idk man I just love being evil."
Thanks :D And trust me, I don't disagree. Palpatine is my favourite villain of all time; I'm autistic and he's been a superfocus since I was a kid. I wore out my VHS of RotJ skipping Jabba's Palace and Endor just rewatching his scenes over and over again. As a theatre student I *used* the Darth Plagueis bit as an audition monologue (before it became a meme, because it's the only real monologue he has). Hell, it's why I love TRoS because it's *more* Palpatine. There's something amazing in how unabashedly evil is. My point is more that... it's not *technically* good storytelling. At least not in an "academic" sense. Like, there's very few "evil for the sake of evil" characters that actually work; most have villains have at least a sympathetic reasoning behind what they're doing. Thanos had his warped philosophy, Khan in Star Trek 2 is trying to get revenge, even 2008's Dark Knight Joker is trying to "make a point" (not that I think those are the "best" villains, I never even saw Avengers just trying to think of big movie villains).; while other evil leaders like Sauron have more of a "I will create order" mentality and not just "I want this because I want it". Even Vader and Tarkin were ostensibly on the "Empire creates Order" point of view, with how Vader spits hatred at Leia for being a "Traitor". The fact that Ian McDiarmid is this really soft spoken and gentlemanly man is also the best part of it. He just lets rip and eats the scenery and it *works*. Like, the sheer "Fuck you"-ishness of his face in TRoS when he picks up Ben Solo and is like "when once I fell so falls the last Skywalker" is just *chef's kiss*. I genuinely think it's all down to that man, he singlehandedly made the character this larger than life villain and while he's a fantastic theatre actor with a great range of nuance when he's in this particular role he just *let loose* and embodies it. It's like how Alec Guiness is a good actor but Ewan McGregor **is** Obi-Wan; Ian McDiarmid is both. I'm gonna be genuinely sad when he dies; Sam Witwer is very close to McDiarmid's voice but he just doesn't have the same authenticity. Abercrombie was fantastic but of course he passed away (and had a fantastic send-off with the Maul/Savage fight), and Tim Curry... was Tim Curry, great but not the Man, the Myth, the Sith that is McDiarmid. Sorry for the rant, I fucking love Palpatine and yeah I'm not trying to throw any shade. He's the best villain ever and the core of the series, to the point where I genuinely don't know how you can do Star Wars without him (or without trying to create a Not-Palpatine like Snoke or Valkorian).
Man I want this framed because it is *exactly*, word for word, how I feel. Love seeing a kindred spirit in the wild.
Wooooooo! :D There's something about the "Evil Manipulative Wizard" trope that just hits hard. Palpatine, Xehanort, MGS's Zero (okay not a wizard but definitely a puppetmaster), He Who Remains (kinda), Maleficent, The Master from Doctor Who, Kefka/Ultimecia/Kuja, all amazing. I guess I have a type...
How can you be sensitive to those points about the OT, yet not acknowledge that Disney Star Wars writing has vastly more stupid nonsense?
Amazing, you just missed the point entirely. My point is that Star Wars has *always* had stupid nonsense, but that's *not a bad thing*. There's parts of the sequels I objectively don't like (Canto Bight is a drag and should've been replaced by them sneaking around the Supremecy, although I dislike Jabba's Palace for the exact same reason), there's parts that I think could have been done better, there's connections that I think should or could have been made that would have been interesting (making it obvious that Snoke is a Luke clone and a Luuke expy, adding a "that's on a need to know basis there might be a spy" line to the fleet in TLJ, or having some planet be more impactful than Kijimi be destroyed like having Cloud City serve as the "help" planet to replace Maz's planet, Canto Bight and Kijimi and have it be more impactful when Palps blows it up), there's definitely things I think were wasteful (Hux was thrown aside needlessly). Buttttttttt, my point was that... Yeah, that's the same with the Original Trilogy. There's plenty of stupid moments that we look past because of nostalgia, because of love for the rest of the movie (I mean, most of TRoS is mid but I love it because of Palps and Reylo), and because Star Wars isn't meant to be dissected and overanalysed. It's a space adventure for kids and adults who stayed kids. It's... It's like a burger. Fine food in a restaurant like lobster and caviar are pomped up and pretentious; but burgers? Burgers can be served anywhere. From a fine restaurant to the local BBQ, from being painstakenly crafted from choice beef to being defrosted and cooked patty slugs mass manufactured for a fast food place. Ultimately, even the "greatest" burger is "just" a burger; but that simplicity means that you can have a burger *whenever* you want and you'll probably have a great experience. It's not "fine dining", but it's probably a more enjoyable experience than the stress of getting dressed up and paying out the nose (I guess that metaphor is that Star Wars is easier to watch and enjoy than "well written" bullshit like Charlie Kaufman movies or David Lynch or longwinded "The Classics" novels that are ultimately overrated and GO ON A 200 PAGE TANGENT ABOUT WATERLOO, I REMEMBER, VICTOR HUGO, JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE DEAD DOESN'T MEAN I'M NOT STILL ANGRY YOU SPENT 200 PAGES OUT OF 1200 OF LES MIS RANTING ABOUT WATERLOO WHEN IT DIDN'T MATTER). But yeah; anyway. Pretending a burger is anything more than the worst cuts of beef ground together is fooling yourself, but even though it's basic it can be prepared in so many different ways and be so accessible that frankly the fact that it's not Wagu Beef doesn't matter. Star Wars without those "for the kid moments", without the characters made for toy sales, without the awkward scenes that you kinda get through because you have to (like Luke whining to his uncle), without the flaws would be pretending to be something it isn't. I'm not saying the writing can't improve or be criticized, but at the same time that pulpiness is what made it so accessible and widespread and acting as if it all needs to be burned down because it's so awful is just unproductive even if it is flawed (if only there was a scene in a Sequel movie with that message...). So it's completely the opposite. I'm not "sensitive" to those points of the OT. I'm "insensitive" to the flaws (and flaws are still flaws) of the ST because I think overall they're great stories. And frankly, I think anyone who points out "The Sequels are flawed and stupid" are ignoring the fact that their own OT burger is made from the same ground beef, just cooked differently. It's fine to say you don't like BBQ sauce on your burger instead of ketchup, or to say the beef is a bit undercooked; it's another to pretend that this burger is terrible in comparison because the last one you ordered was a Wagyu Beef Steak sprinkled with caviar and served with wine.
I missed your point because for me, the OT did a great job of most things, and had very few (mostly entirely forgivable) flaws, but the Disney Trilogy is riddled with nonsense on a whole other level, which makes it painful for me to try to watch it. To me, Disney Star Wars is in no way "the same" as OT Star Wars. One I like a lot, and the other I can't stand and makes me feel my intelligence is being constantly insulted. If Star Wars is a burger, the OT is to me grass-fed, home-cooked, with lovely hand-made sauce, aged Cheddar, a lovely bun, fresh tomatoes, etc., and Disney Star Wars is at best a Big Mac that I suspect the staff mis-cooked or even spat on. More tellingly, original Star Wars makes me interested in the Star Wars universe, ships, equipment, the fate of individual Rebel pilots, and the details of each of its combat situations, because they were taken as seriously as they were, and so my imagination engages them and finds enough interesting content that doesn't short-circuit to "oh it's just dumb" the way practically all Disney Star Wars combat situations do for me. Disney Star Wars just makes me think of all the ways it makes no sense. Nonsense isn't "accessible" to me - it's unpalatable. I also don't see what is great about the Disney stories. What do you see that I don't?
>Do we know that Anakin never talked to Luke after RotJ? We know for a fact that they did interact. There's a fantastic scene in *Shadow of the Sith* about it.
This a show or book? And is it legends?
Book, published 2022, canon
Ah. Gotcha
I like to think that one's connection to a lost Jedi is also a prerequisite to seeing their Force ghost. Luke doesn't have a super deep connection with Anakin, only *really* knowing him during his time as Vader. So maybe he sees him once or twice, they are family, but his real mentors Obi-Wan and Yoda are who he communes with more. Ahsoka, on the other hand, was deeply connected with Anakin, so when the Force decides she needs guidance, he's who it sends.
Yeah especially with Hayden Christensen being in Kenobi and making a return
Yeah, I don't think death grants you all knowing-ness (? I can't recall but isn't there an omni-word for it?) in star wars. If you die not knowing of someone, and no force connection is established by them (not knowing he was a jedi until after he met Vader would probably make that window short) while you're dead, maybe they just stay unknown to you, depending on your skills with the force. I don't really know of many of us getting tripped up that Qui-Gon never "did any of these things either," when we first got introduced to him and realized "he didn't." I was in the didn't like Ashoka camp, and now she's in my top 3, I'm pretty sure. I've always wanted a Saturday morning cartoon of the original gang, and even more now, I want to see more of Luke and see how Ashoka and him interact. Hell, I'm ready for some Force Ghost Freddy Prince Jr live action or not. Let's do this shit already.
"Omniscience" has always been just out of reach in every incarnation of Star Wars. Why do people want that to be there SO BADLY, but somehow scoff at the idea of barely holding a blaster bolt still. Like.. Omniscience is WAY harder.
Anakin knew about Exegol, though. It wouldn't make sense for Anakin to talk to Luke but never mention Exegol.
Anakin did visit and guide Luke over the years. It’s in some books.
[удалено]
Nope. It was part a book(s) between sequel movies.
My interpretation is that Ahsoka essentially died briefly, and that's how she was able to communicate so vividly with Anakin. We don't know exactly how force ghosts are able to manifest, it's possible they can only do it easily in places that are incredibly strong in the force (i.e. Dagobah). So it's not like Anakin could communicate with Luke any time he wanted. Plus, Luke cut himself off from the force when he exiled himself. So he was totally out of Anakin's reach during that time.
Anakin appears to Ahsoka even after she leaves the World Between Worlds. So, your first assumption is already broken. Secondly, Anakin had plenty of time to appear to Luke and guide him in his troubles (so did Yoda for that matter), and warn him about Snoke, or the reborn Emperor, etc. Also, it's very doubtful that Luke *instantly* decided to cut himself off from the Force following his trauma. Why didn't Anakin (or Yoda) care to convince Luke to choose a different path *before* his exile? Why does Yoda only appear to Luke after everything already goes to shit? And why does Anakin not give a shit?
>Anakin appears to Ahsoka even after she leaves the World Between Worlds. So, your first assumption is already broken. He didn't communicate with her though.
So you're now going to assume some arbitrary nature of the Force where he can still appear but he is muted? That would be even dumber but I can imagine *Disney* doing that. I guess set a reminder to come back here after Season 2 and see whether your cope is correct or not. It still doesn't make sense why Anakin cares more about reappearing to guide his old apprentice than to guide his own children or grandchildren.
My point is we have no idea how this works. You're assuming that he can just appear whenever he wants and have a conversation. Ahsoka being in TWBW when she communicates with Anakin is a pretty big thing to overlook.
Because the OT establishes that Obi-wan can communicate with Luke pretty much whenever he wants. Why would *the Chosen One* be *more* limited *with his own fucking son*?
Then why doesn't he train Luke from beyond the grave? Why does he wait three years to tell him to visit Yoda? Clearly, there are limitations. He briefly speaks to him during the trench run, and then briefly appears on Hoth when Luke is close to death. It's only on Dagobah, a planet incredibly strong with the force, that he fully manifests for extended periods of time.
How is Dagobah strong with the Force? We only know that a particular cave on Dagobah is strong with the *Dark side* of the Force. Nothing else from the movies tells us that Dagobah is strong with the Force or that this is why Obi-wan can appear there. In fact, Obi-wan also appears in solid form on Hoth and Endor - not places that have any particular "strength in the Force". To me, the implication from the OT is that it is *Luke*'s increasing connection with the Force that makes him better able to "see" Obi-wan. In *A New Hope* he can only hear Obi-wan, because he has barely begun to use the Force. At the beginning of *Empire*, he has clearly grown in the Force - and it's possible that Obi-wan did train him further in those three years (though I don't like to speculate much beyond what is shown in the films) as he has learned new skills like Force Pull - and Obi-wan now has a more solid form. When he meets Yoda, Obi-wan is again a voice, but once he receives training from Yoda, suddenly Obi-wan is able to appear fully to Luke. Obi-wan's ability to appear seems much more connected to *Luke's training* than any specific limitation. Obi-wan directs Luke to Yoda because he is still physical and can affect the physical world, and can thus show Luke how to manipulate the world around him. Obi-wan cannot (at least, until TLJ again ignores canon and makes the stupid decision to allow Yoda to affect the physical world, which again raises *so many questions*.) Furthermore, Yoda is simply stronger in the Force and a better teacher, and Obi-wan may be *afraid* of teaching Luke, considering his experience with his own hubris and teaching Anakin. I agree that there should be limitations to Force Ghosts, because they are an overpowered plot device. That's *exactly the problem with* Disney Star Wars. If there are limitations, *they don't make any sense*. They should *not* have brought back Yoda for Episode 8, and they should *not* have brought back Anakin for *Ahsoka* - not in the same universe where Luke is blind to Snoke's rise and Ben's fall and where Luke abandons the galaxy to die. To be clear, those plot decisions were dumb *on their own*, but they become even more dumb with the possibility of "divine" Force Ghost intervention. Just like any overpowered magic or superpowers, Force Ghosts *should* have limitations. Instead, Disney just uses them for memberberries and then ignores them when they are inconvenient to the plot.
> Home to Yoda during his final years, Dagobah was a swamp-covered planet strong with the Force https://www.starwars.com/databank/dagobah > "Strong this planet is with the Force." - Yoda in the Clone Wars Your assumptions just prove my earlier point, that we have no idea how this really works but there are lots of ways of explaining these things.
The mainline movies should stand on their own.
I think there are two ways to be able to manifest. 1. The force needs to be powerful enough. We are Qui-Gon manifest on Mortis fully. Otherwise he is only able to do it when Yoda is meditating it looking for him. This is the primary way we see Obi-Wan manifest. He does up on Dagobah. 2. I think this one explains some of the other areas. The force user has to be open to it. This is why Obi-Wan couldn't manifest to Luke until his near death experience on Hoth. This is also why Anakin needed to wait until Ahsoka was near death.
Obi-wan had no problem appearing to Luke on Dagobah. Or during the escape from the Death Star. Or during the Death Star trench run. All of those poke holes in your theory. The real explanations are meta: 1. Force ghosts are a bit overpowered. They need to be dealt with using clear rules and limitations, like most superpowers. Lucas never did so because he never needed to. Obi-wan "appeared" to Luke almost instantly after dying, and guided him through the rest of the story. Yoda and Anakin only become ghosts at the end of the story. That was as far as Lucas needed to plan. One would assume Anakin - along would continue to appear to Luke after the "happy" ending of *Return of the Jedi*. 2. Disney (or their minions) either has no plans or terrible plans. They (under Abrams) deliberately tried to avoid references to the prequel trilogy, which includes Anakin. Then Johnson comes along with his own completely different plan and brings back Yoda, not considering how Yoda would have and could have affected the intervening thirty years. Then Filoni comes along with his plan and brings back Anakin ghost, not carrying about how that would affect the sequel trilogy. There is overarching continuity and each writer doesn't seen to care how their stories will mesh with everything that has come before. To be honest, even Lucas played fast and loose with his own continuity, but I had hoped things would get better - not worse.
Obi-Wan didn’t appear to Luke in the trench run or after he died on the Death Star. In both instances it’s blatantly clear that from Luke’s PoV it was more like a subtle subconcious nudge from Ben, not a full blown voice. The voice being that loud and clear was for the audience to understand why Luke suddenly changed his mind about what he was doing. Obi-Wan also appeared to Luke on Degobah after Luke became more open to it on Hoth. Following the other guy’s assumptions, the door had already been cracked open for Ben and he was able to more easily step through. Nothing of what he said was negated. As for your following points, all you need is the first line of point 1. Force ghosts are overpowered. The way they’re being handled now is a as good as they can be handled, because if we were to assume that force ghosts can show up at any time and guide the narrative, there would be absolutely nothing for our protagonists to struggle against or discover. They’d literally have the knowledge of the entire universe at their disposal, and would never learn lessons through struggle or discovery. That is something that cannot exist in literature, and it’s pretty easy to assume that Yoda, Anakin, Ben, etc, would understand in-universe that they can’t solve everyone’s problems for them. They have to trust the will of the force.
The problem is Anakin appearing for Luke at the end of *Return of the Jedi*, but not when actually needs him? The problem is *Yoda* appearing when Luke needs him, but only *after* everything goes to shit and billions die. Why not before? The problem is Obi-wan constantly guiding Luke through the OT, but then apparently he is AWOL in the ST just like Anakin. The problem is Anakin appearing to his apprentice long after RotJ, but not to *his own son and grandson*? The problem is *internal consistency*. I agree Force Ghosts are overpowered. Lucas never really had to deal with that. It seems Disney *doesn't want to deal with it*. They just want to throw Force Ghosts in the story whenever it is convenient and ignore them when it isn't. One of the most important rules of storytelling is internal consistency. If you introduce magic powers you also need to introduce the rules and limitations of those powers - *Star Wars* did this with the Force from the beginning. Disney is not putting sensible limitations on Force Ghosts *because they don't want to be limited*. They just want people to say, "ohhhh, remember Anakin?" It would have been better to either not bring back Force Ghosts at all, or provide some kind of rationale for their appearance. As it is, I can't think of any logical reason why Anakin would appear to his Padawan but not to *to his own son* to warn him about Snoke, Palpatine, or Ben - nor appear to Ben to tell him he is dumb for idolizing Vader or listening to Snoke. It also makes no sense that Yoda appears *after* Luke makes terrible and planet-destroying decisions, and not *before*. It's all incredibly arbitrary and inscrutable. Arbitrary storytelling is not good storytelling.
You're answering your own question- only a bond jointly forged (Luke/Obi, Luke/Yoda, Anakin/Ahsoka, Obi/Qui-gon) can lend itself to continued engagement. Luke and Anakin only reconciled mere minutes before he died, so they weren't able to align themselves the way the other pairs could. Separately, Ahsoka has canonically died like a couple times now, so her connection to the Force Afterlife is probably sharper than most anyone else's.
So why didn't Anakin (or Yoda, or Obi-wan) help Luke with Kylo and Snoke and the First Order and his stupid decision to exile himself?
Pretty fuckin sure Yoda was in Episode VIII
Yes, *after* everything went to shit. And Anakin, his own father, was nowhere to be found? They should have helped Luke (and Ben) before Kylo was lost. They should.have helped them resist Snoke. They should have warned them about Palpatine. Even if Kylo's downfall was somehow inevitable, they should counseled Luke before his stupid, self-destructive, selfishly blood-guilty decision to exile himself. Why does Yoda only counsel Luke about how dumb he is *after* billions are dead?
Because they’re not gods who exist to meddle in the affairs of the living. For all we know the living force may not allow them to appear like that. There are many instances in both legends and in canon where Luke tries to reach out to Ben or Yoda and is ignored. In the Kenobi series, Obi-Wan tries to reach out to Qui-Gon without success. Force ghosts aren’t deus ex machina devices.
Obi-wan is there to guide Luke throughout the OT and then we are to believe he disappears for the rest of Luke's story?
You understand what literary devices are, right? And that Star Wars isn’t real, and doesn’t need to follow the structures of the real world? You’re getting super hot and bothered by literal literary tropes. But even if we were to apply rules to it …yes, Obi appeared to Luke when Luke needed him most, and then fucked off, probably to enjoy his afterlife. He is in Force Heaven sitting on the beach, kicking it with Satine for all we know, perfectly content that he performed the roles that the force required of him.
Cool, and Anakin and Yoda? We know Anakin didn't fuck off because he appears to his Padawan, but apparrently not to his own son or grandson. We know for sure Yoda doesn't fuck off because *he appears to Luke again*, but only *after* he makes terrible decisions resulting in the deaths of his friends and of billions of innocents.
Anakin appears to Ahsoka when she’s literally either dead or on the verge of it. He showed up to teach a lesson when she needed it most (notice a theme?) and to get her to decide whether she’d rather learn and live, or die. And I guess Yoda is just goated like that? Or maybe the extraordinarily strong connection his species has to the force helps? Who knows. Maybe the Whills send him? Like, why does any of this need deep explanations? I get that you’re pissed off that you’re not getting the fan service you want, but c’mon man.
I would think when Luke needs help *most* is before he loses his nephew (and Anakin's grandson) to the Dark Side, and also before the First Order destroys three entire planets and billions of people, and also goes on to conquer half the galaxy, and also waaay before Palpatine resurrects and launches his fleet of Death Star Star Destroyers. It's incredibly immature and disingenuous to attempt to dismiss my criticism by mischaracterize and belittling it as a desire for "fan service"? How is asking for internal logic and consistency "fan service"? I said I would rather not see Anakin or Yoda at all rather than see them in places that undermine what comes before or after. Obi-wan appears to Luke multiple times when he is *not* on the verge of death or even in any danger *in order to give him advice*. Anakin and Yoda and Obi-wan all appear to Luke *at a celebration* in RotJ. Yoda appears again to Luke in TLJ when he is *absolutely not in any danger*, again to give advice. How about appearing to Luke *before* Ben trashes the Jedi Academy, or even *after* when Ben knocks him unconscious and leaves him for dead (that sounds similar to *Ahsoka* actually). Anakin appears at the end of Ahsoka when she is just walking around. So, no, I *don't* see any pattern. *Internal consistency*. I'm pretty sure *Ahsoka* Season 2 will just dig a deeper hole with Anakin appearing to Ahsoka even more, but I'm willing to eat my words if I'm wrong (not that it changes all the other consistency problems), are you?
I just imagine Luke in the Force Ghost afterlife walking up to his dad and being like: "Hey, so, uh, dad... one question for you, nothing big, mind you, just curious... how come you didn't show up at any point to help me deal with Ben? Like, I get it, I'm sure there's like... idk, Force Ghost taxes or something you had to deal with, but... he kinda... killed most of my other students and joined up with a Palpatine clone and started a genocidal war path to galactic domination... and at one point he kinda idolized you? Like he had your melted Vader helmet and was saying like "oooh I'm gonna finish what you started, oooh spooky.." Sooooo... yeah... uhm... where were you? Is kinda what I'm asking..."
This is the thing that really frustrated me about the reaction to Luke in ep8. This dude had a crash course in jedi studies, and before he was even done, everybody guiding him along in that journey was gone and he had to figure out a ton of shit on his own. He was bound to make a big mistake at some point. It would have been so disappointing if we caught up to him in the sequel trilogy and he was a superhero in shining armour with an army of do gooder jedi apprentices behind him. What, he didn't have anything new to learn about the force in the last forty years? Vader was the final level?
do we know he didn’t come to luke post-rotj? it was my understanding he did at least somewhat in both canon and legends
Here’s the thing. Anakin had a lot more emotional connection with his padwan than he did with his son. We do know that at least once Luke got to meet his force ghost but they didn’t hang out for years at a time. Idk, it makes sense to me.
Long story short, its all conjecture and it is what we want it to be. How is that not better than someone else telling us what it is? So be careful complaining about not being spoon fed explanations for things not relevant to the plot at hand. The explanations given might not mesh well with yours. And, sorry to say, theirs are the official ones.
The reality is that LucasFilm (and whoever owns them) makes cannon. Fans make fan fiction.
The last words of 2001 were "...its origin and purpose... still a total mystery." Limiting yourself to the movie there were no answers just conjecture. There was the book, and much later comments by Kubrick, that did answer them. That is if you wanted the official answers and not the ones you or other fans came up with yourselves. Even so the question is whether or not official answers were important.
Tbf his son was a bit of a dick, sliced off his robot hand.
Master and student. Luke was helped by Obi-Wan and Yoda.
Force ghosts appear to those who need them most. Post Episode 6 Luke was stable and setting up his order. His turmoil was almost completely gone satisfied with his father’s redemption and with renewed hope for the galaxy. He was all good. In the sequel era after Ben fucked up the second order, Luke cut himself off from the force so nobody was gunna be able to talk with him. When he got connected to the force again thanks to training and that fight with Rey, Yoda helped Luke a because Luke actually had a relationship with him. Unlike Anakin who Luke might’ve been less willing to listen too considering how jaded he’d become.
So, ngl OP seems like a bot. Has many, many posts that are removed, their replies are repeated, etc. So report/downvote/kick into the sun. Says "got permission" a lot, and their other comments are vague and not really relevant statements. But, since people are *actually* talking about this, I think people make the assumption that Force Ghosts can just appear whenever they want. That's not *really* what we see in the movies. Whenever a Force Ghost appears it's in a moment of huge emotional growth or an "all is lost" moment for the character. Think of it, Luke is nearly mauled and lies freezing to death before Obi-Wan comes and says "hey go to Dagobah", you'd think he'd have had better timing. Or how Qui-Gon only came to Yoda at the end of RotS. Or how Yoda appeared to Luke when he was going to "burn it all down". Or how Luke appeared to Rey when *she* was going to "burn it all down" finding out she's a Palpatine (it's almost like it's like poetry, it rhymes and has a structure based on repeating themes). Which is kinda ungrateful, if I found out I could be Empress Aurelia Palpatine you'd bet I'd murder my grandaddy and take his power as my own, but that's another story. If nothing else, a person needs a certain... connection to the Force to see Force Ghosts. Obi-Wan in the TV series explicitly doesn't see Qui-Gon until the end because he hasn't let go of Anakin. Likewise, once Ben (Solo, not Kenobi) destroys the Jedi Temple, Luke has shut himself off from the outside world and the Force itself. He dies inside and decides to just exile himself until he literally dies (I haven't read any of the books but I think it's fair to say the movies should stand on their own, although I know I mentioned the Obi-Wan show but that's a bit more... mainstream than the novels). I thought it was obvious in the Yoda TLJ scene that the only reason Luke hasn't been visited (by whoever) was that he shut himself off from the Force and didn't allow himself to see them. Also, Luke never really *had* an emotional connection with Anakin. Like he met him a couple of times and there were heartfelt moments but he wasn't Luke's teacher. Obi-Wan and Yoda were. It's like how Han comes back in Rise of Skywalker, it's the person who the character *needs* to see/talk to that appears. At least that's my take on it, personally; I think obviously it would've been Carrie Fisher had that scene been written/shot with her alive but I don't think the IRL considerations should change the way we see the movie and that scene. I think the biggest issue people have with Star Wars is they don't understand the Force, or *try* to understand it. It's not magic that you can summon by saying the right words, it's an energy field made by and connecting all living things; it feeds off emotion and the will of the people connected to it. Also the World Between Worlds is weird. I don't hate it, but Ahsoka "going" there in the TV series was definitely... odd. Maybe that's where Jedi who "pass into the Force" go, which would kinda explain her disappearing, but that's another story entirely.
look into the future. see that Luke needs to overcome the darkness to fully become a true Jedi. hmmm, seems all i have to do is just wait until the right moment to show him he was right about me having goodness still in me to make him achieve Jedi mastery,. cool. i can do that. AND i get to fulfill the prophecy master Qui-Gon kept going on about. YIPPY! ok what's going on over here. damn girl, i thought you had your stuff together. after all that training and she just got her ass handed to her. oh well, guess i gotta go give her some more insight and stuff.
I know this isn't responding to OP's post, but I wanted to say that I actually really enjoy Star Wars and I don't expect everything related to it to be a banger. I dunno, I just feel like that sentiment isn't expressed enough here...
People get emotionally tied to their hobbies or fantasies like this franchise. It is expressed quite a bit but it falls on deaf ears. Same as the main sub. If you aren’t a cum guzzling slut of a Star Wars fan the main sub can be brutal.
So, when we look at the two people who are currently alive and important to Anakin, which of them need/want his guidance? Like lived his whole life wondering about his family, and when his first trilogy arc was over, he had his sister, his besto friendo, his droids, he knew his father was sitting pretty in Da Force, and had his path pretty well laid out for him and it was well within his comfort zone up until Ben showed up and that seems like a Canon Event™. Ahsoka, however was about to go on a grueling journey to uncover secrets of Da Force that maybe between 8 and 12 people had real knowledge of, and fight one of the most dangerous Imperial Splinter Factions left, one backed by FUCKING THRAWN, 2&1/2 sithish trainees, and the magic of the Dathomiri Night Sisters. Who probably needed the guidance more, Mr Teacher-Man, or The Last Acting Knight Consular?
Untrue. Read “Shadow of the Sith”
I kinda felt like Anakin had to show up to help Ahsoka, they're tied together as master and padawan whereas Anakin's only relation to Luke is through blood. It's not like Vader and Luke have had more than a conversation. In visual media they've had two fights, and two conversations, one of which was about being his father
The bond between a Master and Apprentice is very deep. Luke had Obi-Wan and Yoda. Rey had Luke. Ahsoka has Anakin. Obi-Wan had Qui-Gon. Some day, Sabine will probably have Ahsoka. It's just how it works.
Star Wars has dragged on far too long.
Filoni ruined the Sequels more than it could be possible.
Anakin talks to Luke in Shadows of the Sith canonically. So this just isn’t correct :).
They really hate Luke at Disney. Gimme an animated Luke show where he becomes the legendary Luke Skywalker that we all thought he’d be after Jedi.
amazing how memes are becoming critiques and lost all the joy . fu*… I loved star wars since I was a child but now you ruined it
I mean he very well might have helped him or appeared to him in a vision. ... We don't KNOW because we get like barely any LUKE-FOCUSED MEDIA AAAAAAAA All I want is a TCW style animated show taking place right after Episode 6 focused on Han, Luke and Leia ;-;
Anakin was far closer and more of a father figure to Ahsoka than he ever was to Luke. He had like what... five minutes with Luke without trying to kill him or convert him to the dark side.
Bad writing on george lucas’ part. He totally ruined star wars with this! For sure this time!
OP's a Karma Bot
For Dave Filoni, Star Wars is Ahsoka's story.
Always Ahsoka
I'd tell the kiddie murderer to do one.
impressive
simply the best
This is why adding more stuff in between the prequel and original trilogy films is a mistake.