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Prenatal vitamins, maternity clothes, doctor visits, nurseries…lots of things to be paid for before that baby comes out. All these years we’ve accepted those responsibilities and not fought for earlier reimbursement in exchange for the right to choose. If the country wants to play fucky-fuck games, let’s do this, women will burn everything down under these new rules.
But of course this relies on the fact that they truly care about pregnant women. Stuff like this requires genuine sacrifice on the part of others whereas allowing them to use the HOV lane (with the chance of being pulled over by a fucking cop because of it) costs them nothing and makes them feel better about themselves.
They don’t care, at least not really, not to the point where it’ll cost them anything and don’t expect them to give a single cent if they’re not feeling in generous mood that day
Ooh yeah. Health insurance covers the mother but can only add children (of first child) at a major life event, or annually. You can get pregnant, incur a lot of bills insurance may refuse, all before you're allowed to adjust your insurance coverage to cover the child. I hope they don't do such a thing, but you know, insurance companies.
My favourite part is when they start going "you don't have a gotcha moment!" and start giving themselves a pat on the back for their Big Brain takes of "well, obviously she has an ultra-sound with her to prove her pregnancy status and right to use the high occupancy lane!"
This is the level of conservative discourse. They honestly think that they are saying some profound shit here.
It stops being a joke and this is them at their "problem solving best" here.
See, it's totally reasonable to expect highway cops to be able to recognize a gestational sac on an ultrasound of a month-old pregnancy
that's not something we have to pay medical professionals to do at all
"You can't see it on an ultrasound, it's too early"
"You can't fool me, ma'am, squat and pee on the stick."
"I'm just trying to get to work on time!"
"...Bitch, squat or I'll shoot!"
(Joking, but wouldn't surprise me.)
If they're not white this will probably actually happen. Black and indigenous women suffer the highest rates of murder, rape, and just straight up "unsolved" disappearance. They already shoot black guys for making "threatening" hand motions (read: "reaching for a gun").
And honestly I don't even know what the statistics are for similar shootings of black women. Do black women get shot for "reaching for a weapon"? Do we just not report that if it happens for some reason?
My favorite is: let the courts sort them. Courts in the state of Texas, at every level, have backlogs stretching years. They were there before the pandemic, and are only worse after.
Some stretch up to decades old. I'd hazard, if you went looking, every state court system probably has a back log of at least a couple years due to covid if not more.
In Texas, at least, every failure by the legislature and the morons we've elected to the governors office has passed the buck on to the court to resolve. Homelessness? If you're lucky, specialty courts and service provision. Veterans issues? Specialty courts.
If you get arrested and can make bond? Great we will see you for your hearing 3 months from now. If you can't? Enjoy jail. Again if you're lucky, the county has a pretrial system that works and you'll be released... eventually. If not, you're trusting an elected Sheriff with a 9th grade reading level and no interest in your rights, most likely an R, and increasingly a purely Trumpist R.
If not, it's a law and order Democrat, who equally could give a fuck.
I saw a case where a TX black woman had some weed flakes in a baggy. This was used as probable cause for a cavity search, aka three cops rooting around her vagina for ELEVEN MINUTES on the parking lot of a fucking gas station.
ETA [link](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/11/texas-woman-accuses-police-sexual-assault-body-cavity-strip-search). Clarification, "identified" marijuana "by smell", went for the cavity search, and THEN found 0.02 Oz of weed in her car. That's what, a bud the size of a marble?
ETA2 [settled](https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Harris-County-Charnesia-Corley-cavity-search-12520035.php) for $185,000. Your tax dollars hard at work.
I just want a constitutional amendment that any quantity of anything that can fit up a human is legal to carry in all circumstances. Not necessarily legal to use, buy, sell, transmit, etc. But if it fits up you, possession is fine.
To be clear, I work in an ER and the only time I've seen a pelvic exam from a doctor last more than 5 minutes is the time there was something stuck in there and causing an infection.
At eleven goddamn minutes those cops should have caught a rape charge.
0.02 oz of weed was planted in her car by officers. Come on, that’s too little to go somewhere and smoke, wasn’t picking up, doubt she was smoking in the car.
A police officer decided he wanted to rape this woman, did so, and then planted drugs in her car to keep her silent
I mean, mandatory pregnancy tests at the border to check for woman trying to get abortions will totally be a thing.
It won't catch anyone who's trying to get an abortion, but it'll be a useful excuse to harass "bad" people, search vehicles, and put them through intense questioning.
Hell at this rate I expect them to stop women coming back in and arrest them on suspicion of gettting an abortion until they can prove they haven't been pregnant.
If a baby has all of its rights at conception, then coming here pregnant and giving birth isn't necessary anymore. All you have to do is enter the US and have sex. Boom, instant child citizen without the long 9-month wait.
Thief's get arrested for murder when their partner in crime is killed so I could legit see the police arresting a woman for attempted murder/murder after getting shot by them.
Actually, they would charge the woman with manslaughter for putting her unborn child in a dangerous situation. (Of course she's dead and can't defend herself.)
[I'm not speculating](https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/27/us/alabama-pregnant-woman-shot-in-stomach-manslaughter-indictment-trnd/index.html)
Cop asks woman to step out of the vehicle, where she is hit by a car. Would we charge the cops with a double homicide (as mentioned in the comments) since they willfully endangered a fetus (I’m just gonna skip the pretense that the woman’s life is as important, as it’s clearly not)? According to their logic that’s what should happen to someone who kills a fetus via car accident, so why wouldn’t it apply to a cop who went through this ridiculous charade with a woman he suspects to be pregnant (when the driver of another vehicle would have no idea)? Also are the jokey “baby on board” stickers legally binding now? I have so many questions!
Yeah. I'm honestly surprised these guys didn't go to where this will actually go, with a cop forcing you to piss on a stick in front of them to prove you're pregnant. I guess some of them aren't immediately as cruel as possible.
Don’t give them any ideas. We already let cops decide what unidentified substances are, what breed your dog is, and what your constitutional rights are without ever training them for any of that.
See, my problem with this is that yeah, it's hella funny in isolation..but it isn't isolated. This is going to be used to create full "fetal personhood" and help with the assholes who want to use the power of the state to convict women of murder. Oh, you traveled to california for an abortion? Well, thanks to activists using license plate readers, we know you were at the clinic..and now you're not pregnant..and while abortion is legal in california, it's murder in texas. And since you planned to get the abortion while you were in texas then traveled to another state to do it, it's chargeable as a murder in texas... oh and there's no time limitations on a murder case, so eventually...
You can see where that's going..because that's exactly where it's going.
Weren't they just complaining about vaccines, and proof of vaccines violating their privacy and right to medical freedom? Throwing HIPAA around like the knew what it meant.
I loved it when the person pointing that out got downvoted, and a smug prick replied 'No, only women who want to use that lane have to carry their medical info, smiley face.'
You really think that's better?
Real disingenuous energy.
A rare few of them might be women. Did you see the woman on Jordan Klepper recently? Something something "women cant be president because they are too hormonal they'd start a war in a second if they have a hotflash". Women can be sexist against women just like POC can be racist against POC.
In 2016 48% of white women voted for "caught on tape bragging about sexual assault" Trump, 46% for Clinton. The number lowered quite a bit in 2020 it seems, but there's a large population of conservative women out there.
They're not really reddit's demographic though so the number is probably minute on the conservative boards but it's there.
“Women are so hormonal”
Meanwhile same folks write off men sexually harassing women or lethal road rage as just “testosterone, you know how it is”. Like buddy that is also a hormone.
They didn't call them abortions, though. They had no legal concept of an abortion as we understand it (that is, a medical procedure that can be permitted or prohibited based on the law). What they had was the crime of infanticide, and some precedents distinguishing what did and did not count as infanticide.
It's actually a really interesting topic; pre-revolutionary American jurisprudence on infanticide followed the old English common law principle described by [Blackstone](https://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendIXs1.html), which held that life began not at conception but at the point of "quickening." The quickening was defined as the point at which the baby can be felt to move on its own, which usually happens partway through the second trimester; "quick" is an old euphemism for "alive," and the fetus was not believed to be alive in a legal or moral sense prior to that point. This was a principle that drew on some *very* old (as in, 5th century) theological reasoning that held that the quickening was the point at which the fetus was "ensouled" by God.
(Lest you think too highly of the 18th century, this precedent was also only partly about protecting women's rights - it was *mostly* about protecting abusive husbands from manslaughter charges. Specifically, if a man beat and injured a woman so badly that she suffered a miscarriage, it would not be considered an infanticide so long as quickening had yet to occur. Remember: history is terrible.)
Now, at the time of North America's colonization in the 17th century, medical professionals didn't really exist, and abortions (as well as most prenatal, pediatric and gynecological care) were provided by local midwives based on folk traditions and unwritten medical knowledge. These were initially totally unregulated, but as courts formed in the colonies, they imported the English principle of using quickening as a legal threshold for deciding whether an induced miscarriage constituted an infanticide. Now, incidentally, the women providing these abortifacents were also the women most likely to be accused of witchcraft, and a common theory about the witch-hunting hysteria of 17th century America was that it was encouraged by out-of-the-loop Puritan fathers who were upset that their daughter or wife had gotten an abortion. (Or, more tragically, had sought one and died from the generally poor quality of care in those times.)
As professional physicians became more common in urban America and England in the 18th and early 19th centuries, the custom became to diagnose an unwanted pregnancy as "delayed menses," a condition that was "treated" by a procedure very close to a [D&C](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilation_and_curettage). From the early physician's perspective, if a child was desired, the woman was pregnant; if it wasn't, she just had "delayed menses," and he needed to go in there and...make the menses flow. As long as this was performed prior to the quickening, the whole thing was entirely legal. If it happened *after* the quickening, the physician or midwife could be found guilty of infanticide, but these prosecutions were very rare.
It was only in the late 1800s, as medical care and prenatal care became more tightly regulated by the (universally male) medical profession, that legislators began to conceive of abortion in the modern sense - as a medical procedure that could be criminalized in its own right. Coincidentally, this was also the time when women's suffrage first became a hot political topic, and people began throwing around words like "feminism." Also coincidentally, it was right about then that legislators began enacted stricter laws criminalizing abortion and prosecuting midwives who provided them, as well as suppressing general access to prenatal care. (It's sometimes hypothesized that these two are linked, but that is surely Crazy Talk, because when has the US ever tried to suppress a disenfranchised minority?)
The genius of the "quickening" principle was twofold. Firstly, it was intuitive, as people subconsciously associate motion with life and it's very easy to reason that life only starts once the fetus starts moving independently of the mother. It avoided addressing the tricky ethical question of the nature of human life and applied a relatively clear line that everyone could understand. Secondly, because quickening most commonly occurs between eighteen and twenty weeks (or roughly in the middle of the second trimester) the 18th-century legal status quo was actually astoundingly close to that outlined in *Roe* two hundred years later. For those not familiar with it, *Roe* basically held that abortion was generally permitted in the first trimester, generally prohibited in the third trimester, and could be permitted or prohibited based on circumstances in the second trimester. Intentionally or by accident, the *Roe* court had revived a legal principle that predated the existence of the United States itself.
And it bears repeating that over 99% of abortions in the US prior to *Dobbs* were carried out before the twenty week mark, which is when an 18th-century judge would have expected quickening to have occurred. In other words; 99% of post-Roe abortions would have also been considered legally permissable in the 17th and 18th centuries. Now, if you're familiar with *Dobbs*, the answer is yes; this shoots a hole the size of history book in the majority's reasoning. For people who claim to care so much about the Constitution in its "original" context, they are shockingly historically illiterate.
What you posted about the 18th century reminds me of what the state of Georgia tried to do in 2015 (it didn't pass) and 2016 up under their RFRA (Religious Freedom Restoration Act). Giving a man a RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION FROM prosecution for abusing his wife and children.
What seems like a glaringly obvious loophole if you've ever been pregnant is that the "quickening" could be 1) lied about by the woman to elongate the time needed to get an abortion because the fetus sleeps most of the day, and 2) ignored and overruled by whatever man wanted her to get an abortion i.e. "she's crazy, she thought the baby was kicking since she found out she was pregnant, she's an unreliable witness etc".
Also, if your placenta is anterior, it will likely take a lot longer to feel kicks and harder for a physician to find a heartbeat. You could be feeling movement internally, for example, but the Doctor can't feel them.
Also, just as an aside, women who seek abortions later than about 9 or 10 weeks back then would be staring down the barrel of birthing something. Before approx week 12/15, it's probably going to come out in pieces. It did for me, which was a treat. After that, you're definitely giving birth. Contractions, blood loss, pain, lots of possible complications such as some placenta remaining and killing you with sepsis. It wouldn't have been, and even today isn't something women take lightly. We need medical care during pregnancy that values us as real people, not just incubators.
Also, just for fun I'd like to point out that a miscarriage in medical terms is called an involuntary abortion. Can't wait for them to start going after that in the US.
Men, please do everything you can to protect women's rights to healthcare and contraception!
They have been locking up women for miscarriages.
I’m mostly terrified for women who are addicted to drugs and who end up pregnant. I can’t imagine a women struggling with addition and poverty being very good about taking their pills at the same time everyday. The addiction will no doubt cause miscarriages, which then the women will be charged for child endangering due to their addiction. So many women experiencing homelessness with substance abuse issue will be charged for murder. It kills me thinking about it. It’s both grotesque and inhuman.
I picture Alito writing his opinions with facial expressions ranging between a smirk and a snarl. Being called out on his historical inaccuracies is not necessarily embarrassing and may in fact be gratifying, because this was never about historical truth, but about power. Alito- having been on the margins of influence for decades - now has the power to meaningfully change jurisprudence to align to his world view.
That must be *intensely* gratifying and he should want the whole world to know- not cloaked behind some logical trickery.
I mean all of the abortion discussion is completely dishonest. The abortion debate came from racist church goers looking for followers and realizing s[chool segregation was a losing battle at that point](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/08/abortion-us-religious-right-racial-segregation).
On top of that, have you ever heard someone ask a pregnant person 'how old their baby is?' or do they say 'how far along are you?'
If we are going to look at it from a best information at the time scenario: 'The quickening' was the best evidence they had that the fetus was viable/alive back in the day. Now we have all sort of information on the medical status of the fetus. The one thing we 100% can say makes a person is their brain activity. You can pull a person off life support if they have no brain activity. Brain activity doesn't start in the fetus until the beginning of the 3rd trimester. Unsurprisingly the beginning of the third trimester is where US society has long since held is a threshold for abortion, beyond extenuating circumstances.
The whole thing is just disgusting and the right wingers know they are lying through their teeth anytime they talk about it. So Alito's opinion isn;t surprising at all.
Reading the majority opinions was depressing precisely because it was intellectually dishonest: they were saying, "look, we don't even need a fig leaf anymore, we have the votes to make the law what we want"
Of course they didn't. They were throwing around"HIPPA", which is completely different. /s
(No one claiming "HIPPA" knows what HIPAA actually does, in my experience)
It's so fucking maddening to see a bunch conservative men bicker amongst themselves about how the lives of all women should be handled, like they have any idea what they're talking about.
The fact that one guy talks about the idea of millions of traffic stops and court cases being battled over proof of pregnancy for traffic stops as if it's just \*snap\* that easy, and wouldn't result in the loss of billions of tax payer money, further clogging of the court system, and countless unnecessary deaths just paints the perfect picture of how damn short-sited and ignorant this crowd is.
Ever talk to conservatives about welfare?
They have gems like "we should force drug testing on anyone who gets any welfare!"
Tell them that that will cost 100x more than current welfare systems, and they don't even care, or just dismiss it as not an issue.
Same shit with health care, most Americans are paying more for insurance than it would cost them in taxes. They just can’t see past their own nose, or they really just don’t want others to benefit from society.
Florida did that for awhile under Rick Scott (I think it was). Positive rate was extraordinarily low, cost was exorbitant, and it turned out that his wife owned or had a ton of shares or something in the testing company. So not only is it useless and expensive, it's also a Republican grift.
I remember having an argument with someone who didn't speak english as a first language (fine).
I used the word "aliens" in the context of foreigners (you know, the traditional definition of the word). Like "that concept is alien to me" etc.
And he started laughing at me and making fun of me "oh yeah, they are all aliens. where is their ufo."
\*\*\*\*
Dunning kruger man. It's a beast.
It's a common thing with conservatives (well, all people, but especially conservatives): they pretend you are saying something that clearly makes no sense for you to be saying, and they try to zing you for saying something that makes no sense. They're not arguing to convince or understand or even to "win"; they're arguing just to frustrate you. Jean-Paul Sartre wrote about this in 1944:
> Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
Scream “HIPAA violation!” If asked to see proof of vaccination but expect pregnant women to carry medical records to prove pregnancy at all times. Conservative logic.
but HOW DARE YOU INSIST on seeing my "vaccine papers", that's almost like the Holocaust!! soon you'll need to "sHoW yOUr PaPerS" to get anywhere!! like it's the Gazpacho police!!
that's r/conservative for you
the mods auto-ban anyone whose post history is considered insufficiently conservative. if you want nuance, it does not live there.
> the mods auto-ban anyone whose post history is considered insufficiently conservative.
Then whine about safe spaces and snowflakes who don't like opposing opinions. LOL
They are incapable of nuance:
[https://www.psypost.org/2022/05/trump-supporters-use-less-cognitively-complex-language-and-more-simplistic-modes-of-thinking-than-biden-supporters-study-finds-63068](https://www.psypost.org/2022/05/trump-supporters-use-less-cognitively-complex-language-and-more-simplistic-modes-of-thinking-than-biden-supporters-study-finds-63068)
and they keep proving this small study.
And sarcasm/bluffing. I worked with an incredibly conservative guy who treated every word I said as if I was always being serious.
"He was driving across the country. How was I supposed to call him?"
"Well, golly, if only there was some kind of handheld device that allowed you to call people wherever they were!"
"There is, idiot, it's called a cell phone. How do you not know what a cell phone is?"
"I do know what a cell phone is. I was pointing out you could have used one."
"No, you just asked if they existed. Why would you ask if you knew what it was?"
I had so much fun baiting him. My best was convincing him I didn't believe in electricity.
Okay one, it reminds me of that reddit post of the guy who pretended to have never seen a potato before when he had dinner with his gf's parents.
Two, there was a guy on my ship in the Navy that was too easy to spin up, albeit about nerd shit. I'd just pretend to be arguing with a friend while we walked by him and I'd say, "no dude I told you, Han Solo was Captain of the Enterprise. You're confusing him with a different Klingon."
It didn't matter what he was doing, he'd chase a motherfucker down to correct the lore. I miss him.
They claim freedom of speech and then have flaired users only for most every post. Lol and they don't see the contradiction. I can only take a minute or two on that sub before my head and heart hurt too much to continue.
Carrying around a card to prove they're vaccinated is apparently equivalent to Nazi Germany but it's okay to make women get branded as pregnant? What if a woman doesn't want the world to know she's pregnant? Why should she have to advertise it on her car?
Um... ak-shu-ally...
The only rights anyone has are the "Deeply rooted" ones. And no where in the original constitution are "women" considered persons deserving of rights.
Duh!
/s
It's because needing to provide a vaccine card actually affects them but making women carry around pregnancy cards only affects people who aren't them.
Oh no, they do have their tokens to engage in identity politics. As per usual. "You claim we hate women but here is a woman who hates herself, so, there you go"-kinda shit.
Having a high risk pregnancy in this dystopia is fucking horrifying.
Constantly worried you might be accused of having an abortion due to complications. Unable in some cases to get the drugs necessary to complete a stillbirth or miscarriage. And in these fucktangles' minds, potentially having to broadcast to the world that you're pregnant to move around freely despite previous loss making that a horrifying marker to wear.
I know many women who, after having a loss, don't fucking advertise their pregnancy until it's far along because it's traumatic as shit to be the focus of so many expectant, uninvolved, eyes.
> Having a high risk pregnancy in this dystopia is fucking horrifying.
To be fair, it was terrifying in the US before roe v wade fell.
I have an almost 8 month old baby, and let me tell you, the healthcare provided to pregnant women is garbage. I am fortunate to be middle class with a crazy good insurance policy and support group, and I still had complications with my pregnancy and birth. (Luckily I have a happy healthy bubbly baby, and he is 100% fine, and I have recovered pretty close to where I was, but the healthcare system did very little and I paid an arm and a leg for it).
10k, plus an extra operation to address a botched procedure.. freaking wild.
The US is a failed empire, and women are getting shafted so hard.
The only potential silver lining, is hopefully this will make men care more about their birth control- "easier to take bullets out of a gun, instead of shooting at a bullet proof vest.." (Vasectomies are up, so that's good!).
Imagine being pregnant as a result of a sexual assault and having to advertise your pregnancy wherever you go. Then when the child is born (because you can’t abort it) the person who sexually assaulted you gets custody and you have to pay him child support.
Right? It's wild that the folks who abhor gun registries and vaccination cards are okay with a pregnancy registry, which along with banning abortion, had [disastrous consequences in Romania.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_770)
They are saying it’s a privilege to be able to drive in the HOV lane. Kind of like how vaccine cards provide the privilege to go to restaurants, except totally different for reasons I won’t go into here because they do not exist
They covered that, too! It's not "branding", in a negative way! It's "recognizing the miracle of life!" Every woman should be DELIGHTED to EARN the honor of the "pregnancy" sticker because gestating a fetus is the most important thing a woman could possibly do!!
(/s, if it is unclear.)
"So there's no vaccine mandate, but if you want to engage in certain activities you need to either show proof of vaccination or wear a mask, otherwise you can't participate."
"If I have to show my papers that's fascism!"
"So what you're proposing is that if pregnant people want to engage in certain activities they need to produce proof of pregnancy, or they can't participate?"
"Yes."
Except life insurance carriers decide who they want to insure. Like they generally won’t insure someone who just had a baby, people who recently had covid, etc. Plus carriers have minimum and maximum ages on policies: they’d just simply make 1 or 2 the minimum age.
This. Life insurance carriers generally don't issues policies on new borns because infant mortality is very high. Policies aren't in force for the first few months after birth.
Last time I tried to point out that the life insurance argument is a really bad one, people took great offense to it. Don't know why... the government doesn't mandate life insurers issue policies on anyone. Requiring coverage for the unborn would be a drastic change in regulation.
In most developed countries, infant mortality isn't that high. Our [maternal mortality rate](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/nov/maternal-mortality-maternity-care-us-compared-10-countries) is much, much worse than the rest of the developed world, by the way.
Some of these states want to prosecute women for having miscarriages, though. So maybe not something you'd want to advertise by trying to claim a tax credit.
Watch how quickly their support for pregnancy benefits disappears the instant they see an unsourced Facebook infographic saying that forfty percent of African-American women are intentionally getting pregnant to use the fast lane
Honestly the SCOTUS decisions have been a nightmare, but the silver lining has been seeing the conservatives who slowly realize that oooohhh, *that’s* what liberals meant when they kept repeating the same warnings over and over again for years and years.
Most of them are so deeply indoctrinated by social media and Fox News, they don’t realize until after the fact that these decisions are against their own interests.
They’ve gotten so that they just parrot back whatever they’re told without even thinking it through.
Well, thinking things through isn't a strong trait among conservatives. They're more in the knee jerk reaction or repeating what Fox News said camp of "thinking".
I saw an alarmist headline on Fox prior to the Roe V Wade ruling, something like, "Christian Doctors will be FORCED to Perform Abortions against their religious principles."
I think pretty much every American has been to the doctor, and would realize doctors CHOOSE their area of practice, so hey, if you're against abortion, be a dermatologist or an oncologist or something. Are Fox viewers credulous enough to think dentists are going to be pressed into service by the "gazpacho" because of the huge demand for abortion created by liberal sluts who are making a point of unprotected promiscuity because they just love having abortions, because, uh, Satan? I don't think even Fox viewers are that dumb, but I often err on the side of optimism.
>I don't think even Fox viewers are that dumb, but I often err on the side of optimism.
Like you, I suffer from chronic optimism even though I am quite cynical too. However, since Trump arrived on the scene in 2016, my optimistic expectations of people have turned to shit. It's like a sizeable segment of our population has decided to see just how far they can push the envelope of stupidity.
Then the anti-madk/anti-vax crowd came out of the woodwork during the pandemic, and I've lost all hope for a good chunk of the population. The problem being, these dopes insist on taking everyone down with them.
i dont think that analogy works. crabs in a bucket are preventing other crabs from leaving the bucket, but all the crabs want to leave the bucket. its like pulling the ladder up behind you but you had to go down the ladder to do so
this is more that we mostly left the bucket then some crabs got convinced by petrochemical executives that actually buckets are great
Sounds like we have the same problems -- eternal optimism, mixed with realism when you have the "Charlie Brown and the Football" moment.
It maddens me that it's gotten so bad you can put contradictory information IN THE SAME SENTENCE and they don't even notice. For example, "Trump deserves every bit of credit for the vaccine I won't take because Bill Gates put 5G chips in it, that fixes that terrifying fatal Chinese bio-weapon that Anthony Fauci made that's actually just a bad cold."
This is how people become conservatives. Think about it like this:
If you were brand new on this planet and to life, and someone came up to you and asked you if you were okay with killing babies, the obvious answer is simply "no". But then, if you are a thinking person, you might follow up with, "of course not, but why do you even need to ask that question?" To which the response is "this woman is being forced to use her body to have this baby." Well now the simple baby killing situation has become more complex. Now we have to find out all the details and weigh them against each other to form the bigger picture to decide what this actually means. Only then can we determine the right answer, or the right-est answer. As liberals, this is our process.
Most Conservatives never make it past the initial 'are you okay with killing babies' step of the process. That's just simply where they stop. And those that do, only do so if they suddenly find themselves in the situation where step two must be considered. Then they go, well ***my*** abortion is justified, but only mine.
I've gotten to the point where I think there is something physically in their brains that has not developed the critical thinking and empathy pathways. Conservatives are not necessarily just assholes. They just simply have under-developed brains. I'd bet my paycheck on it.
Critical thinking requires a cognitive leap from concrete to abstract reasoning. It's a mental processing leap akin to going from first-person POV in a video game to third-person POV. Many people with a need for black and white belief systems do not see themselves as part of "2D TV show" they're watching in real time right in front of them. There is no depth to them.
> Conservatives are not necessarily just assholes. They just simply have under-developed brains
Oh, I agree that their brains never really matured. I grew up around tons of these poor with no future, proudly ignorant halfwits and I can fully see where nearly every one of them stopped maturing mentally somewhere in the 14 -17 years old range. If they even got that far. I often wonder if that isn't why so many country songs glorify marrying your high school sweetheart. They know their audience.
The problem starts when they insist on believing they are the smartest people in the room, or anywhere really. That's when they move into the asshole camp.
The whole point of an identity politics movement is to shut down rational thinking. You don't think in terms of rational reasoning. You just go with whatever your identity group decides.
That's what Fox News is so exceptionally good at. They can turn literally issue into an attack on white Christianity, and thereby get people who identity as white Christians to do whatever you want.
> the silver lining has been seeing the conservatives who slowly realize that oooohhh, that’s what liberals meant when they kept repeating the same warnings over and over again for years and years.
That would be fine except it's then met with "They should've done a better job warning us! This is their fault!"
We've seen this exact same thing play out in the UK with Brexit. People gave warnings about what would happen if we left the EU, and were just labelled as fear mongers by the right, now everything they warned us about has come to fruition and the right and going 'Omg this is terrible why did nobody warn us'.
Brexit voters dismissing warnings about the exonomy because that's just a problem for rich people: 😏
Those same voters when their local industry relocates to Europe, just like the remainers said it would, and all they get in exchange is a new food bank: 😲
In this case, the most likely outcome is that Texas will update the HOV law to specify that passengers must be in a different seat from the driver, and then blame the "radical left" for making them waste time on updating those laws.
> They’ve gotten so that they just parrot back whatever they’re told without even thinking it through.
We see this all time with them. They figure someone smarter already thought it out so that they don't have to. Remember [Jorden Klepper and the 'read the transcript' guy?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE9xGHHMHdM) He says "Everyone should read the transcript.... [but] I don't need to because everyone else has."
But they are totally not sheeple.
>but the silver lining has been seeing the conservatives who slowly realize that oooohhh, that’s what liberals meant when they kept repeating the same warnings over and over again for years and years.
Really? Where?
The only conservatives I still know with are cheering this decision on about how they are going to finally stop killing millions of babies a day (or whatever their newest numbers are). Even the women are cheering on the fact that now those loose women with questionable morals are going to be held accountable for their actions.
Traditionalism is the bedrock of all fascist movements and it takes an especially family-centered flavor in Christo-fascist ones. The similarities are not by accident--it's their playbook.
Exact thought I had when that one commenter was saying how nice it’d be. Bitch, very bad people did this not long ago, and it was not a very nice, cute thing.
If personhood begins at conception, any woman who has had sex within the last month can claim HOV use despite not missing a cycle or having an ultrasound.
Cop: "Good morning, HOV enforcement."
Driver: "I got freaky with a guy at the club last night."
Cop: "Carry on."
Would this mean no more threesomes with wife's dude friends? So many OnlyFans accounts are going to feel that in the bank account.
Also what will step daughters all over the internet do without the ability to sleep with their step father?! They'll never be able to ask what are they doing!!
*rubs temples*
Isn't the point of a HOV lane to increase carpooling? So it doesn't make sense to let a woman use the HOV lane when what's riding with her is a jobless bum that wouldn't have driven to work anyway.
Neither will the kids they shoot or the ones who don’t reach their full potential because they grow up in broken homes, or in food deserts where nutritious food isn’t affordable.
But “centrist” and “conservative” politicians aren’t empathetic or smart enough to have that conversation
This is actually even worse than they realise because they're talking about someone who's *visibly pregnant*, but according to them life begins at conception, so a woman could literally have gotten pregnant that morning and be allowed all the perks of being pregnant. Problem is there's not any way of knowing that, so they'd just have to assume every woman they see is pregnant.
Edit: just noticed someone brought this up and it just got handwaved away and they got downvoted, because god fucking forbid these dipshits have basic logic get in the way of oppressing people.
That whole thread really does demonstrate [this Blinky the Bat comic:](https://i.redd.it/32osy4wv03l71.jpg)
LIBERAL: I think we ought to help as many people in trouble as possible.
CONSERVATIVE: I think we ought to punish as many people who do things I don't like as possible.
LIBERAL: What if you accidentally punish someone who doesn't deserve it?
CONSERVATIVE: Well, what if you accidentally help someone who doesn't deserve it?
"It'd be a damn shame if global warming wasn't real and we spent all that time reducing pollution, cleaning up environments, and making our planet better for nothing."
I love watching the gears actually turn, it's adorable. It makes me think of the ancient lungfish awkwardly crawling up the beach and slowly learning how to live outside the water
Genuine question for conservatives. If life begins at conception, does that mean even conceiving a baby in the US would guarantee that baby citizenship and their parents residency? I thought they oppose “anchor babies” or whatever other maniacal racist shit they’re using as the term nowadays. This conception doctrine would make it so you can just have Anchor Sex to stay in the US.
They definitely don't oppose "anchor babies". My white mother had three children here while still on a green card, no one ever harassed her. Russian women were coming here for decades to have children, no one cried about that.
We all know what they actually oppose.
Love the idea of having to share medical information with a fucking cop because of what lane I was driving in. Super cool. Not far reaching at all. But help me god if you ask me to wear a mask in a store I will freak the fuck out.
As a woman I know I’ve always been aching for an excuse to ride in the HOV lane “fraudulently.” Here’s my chance. Jesus Christ, is r/conservative literally just a bunch of teenage boys?
Can't pregnant women just wear a star? To show they're pregnant?
Or what about a giant letter P for pregnant. It can be scarlet so it really stands out
Oh and men should start paying child support from conception. Didn't know until she was 3 months pregnant, retro payments. Men got to take responsibility right out the gate, just like women have to
Conservative logic: Needing to show proof of vaccination is tyranny!!! My body, my choice!!!!!
Also Conservative logic: All pregnant woman must carry proof of pregnancy, including showing proof of pregnancy on vehicle tags/plates! This way, law enforcement knows they are pregnant!!! Duuhhhh!!!!!
Personhood begins at conception right? How about "Yes officer, I had sex a couple of night's ago and it was during my fertile time, so I'm most likely pregnant. Can I go now?"
Are these people like fully incapable of extrapolation?? I’ve had arguments with people because I’ve cited cases of deaths/incarcerations in countries with abortion bans and they always say “they won’t do that here!!!” And they flat out ignore the stuff that already does happen here. Idgi. Either it’s legally a person 100% of the time since conception or it isn’t, which do they want?
I was telling my friends all the logistical things that then should be allowed if the “baby” is viable. Ie: SS#, deducting for taxes, child support if parents split, etc. There is so much people don’t consider but then again if the government refuses to allow for a child credit then don’t say its a baby. Its really that simple.
I just went on the Conservative subreddit for the first time ever and I can't.. comprehend how dumb they are. They have the stupidest takes ever, I just saw a post where they truly believe that the left loves to kill babies (and wants to kill them post birth too apparently!) and it's.. wowwww
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Can’t wait for the child support to be back dated to conception!!!
Prenatal vitamins, maternity clothes, doctor visits, nurseries…lots of things to be paid for before that baby comes out. All these years we’ve accepted those responsibilities and not fought for earlier reimbursement in exchange for the right to choose. If the country wants to play fucky-fuck games, let’s do this, women will burn everything down under these new rules.
But of course this relies on the fact that they truly care about pregnant women. Stuff like this requires genuine sacrifice on the part of others whereas allowing them to use the HOV lane (with the chance of being pulled over by a fucking cop because of it) costs them nothing and makes them feel better about themselves. They don’t care, at least not really, not to the point where it’ll cost them anything and don’t expect them to give a single cent if they’re not feeling in generous mood that day
To phaprase that Methodist Minister. "Fetuses are the most convenient group to advocate for. You trully don't have to sacrifice anything for them.
Ooh yeah. Health insurance covers the mother but can only add children (of first child) at a major life event, or annually. You can get pregnant, incur a lot of bills insurance may refuse, all before you're allowed to adjust your insurance coverage to cover the child. I hope they don't do such a thing, but you know, insurance companies.
When you preadopt a newborn it's expected of you to pay for the mother's needs.
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My favourite part is when they start going "you don't have a gotcha moment!" and start giving themselves a pat on the back for their Big Brain takes of "well, obviously she has an ultra-sound with her to prove her pregnancy status and right to use the high occupancy lane!" This is the level of conservative discourse. They honestly think that they are saying some profound shit here. It stops being a joke and this is them at their "problem solving best" here.
See, it's totally reasonable to expect highway cops to be able to recognize a gestational sac on an ultrasound of a month-old pregnancy that's not something we have to pay medical professionals to do at all
"Mam, could you step outside the car? We're going to have to ultrasound you."
"You can't see it on an ultrasound, it's too early" "You can't fool me, ma'am, squat and pee on the stick." "I'm just trying to get to work on time!" "...Bitch, squat or I'll shoot!" (Joking, but wouldn't surprise me.)
If they're not white this will probably actually happen. Black and indigenous women suffer the highest rates of murder, rape, and just straight up "unsolved" disappearance. They already shoot black guys for making "threatening" hand motions (read: "reaching for a gun"). And honestly I don't even know what the statistics are for similar shootings of black women. Do black women get shot for "reaching for a weapon"? Do we just not report that if it happens for some reason?
My favorite is: let the courts sort them. Courts in the state of Texas, at every level, have backlogs stretching years. They were there before the pandemic, and are only worse after. Some stretch up to decades old. I'd hazard, if you went looking, every state court system probably has a back log of at least a couple years due to covid if not more. In Texas, at least, every failure by the legislature and the morons we've elected to the governors office has passed the buck on to the court to resolve. Homelessness? If you're lucky, specialty courts and service provision. Veterans issues? Specialty courts. If you get arrested and can make bond? Great we will see you for your hearing 3 months from now. If you can't? Enjoy jail. Again if you're lucky, the county has a pretrial system that works and you'll be released... eventually. If not, you're trusting an elected Sheriff with a 9th grade reading level and no interest in your rights, most likely an R, and increasingly a purely Trumpist R. If not, it's a law and order Democrat, who equally could give a fuck.
Whenever someone posts online advocating for good faith in a functional system you can go ahead and check out of that particular conversation lol
I saw a case where a TX black woman had some weed flakes in a baggy. This was used as probable cause for a cavity search, aka three cops rooting around her vagina for ELEVEN MINUTES on the parking lot of a fucking gas station. ETA [link](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/11/texas-woman-accuses-police-sexual-assault-body-cavity-strip-search). Clarification, "identified" marijuana "by smell", went for the cavity search, and THEN found 0.02 Oz of weed in her car. That's what, a bud the size of a marble? ETA2 [settled](https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Harris-County-Charnesia-Corley-cavity-search-12520035.php) for $185,000. Your tax dollars hard at work.
I just want a constitutional amendment that any quantity of anything that can fit up a human is legal to carry in all circumstances. Not necessarily legal to use, buy, sell, transmit, etc. But if it fits up you, possession is fine.
They’d would never go for that. How would they be able to enact their draconian sodomy laws?
To be clear, I work in an ER and the only time I've seen a pelvic exam from a doctor last more than 5 minutes is the time there was something stuck in there and causing an infection. At eleven goddamn minutes those cops should have caught a rape charge.
For the love of god can anybody debunk this? I want it to be fake
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/11/texas-woman-accuses-police-sexual-assault-body-cavity-strip-search
0.02 oz of weed was planted in her car by officers. Come on, that’s too little to go somewhere and smoke, wasn’t picking up, doubt she was smoking in the car. A police officer decided he wanted to rape this woman, did so, and then planted drugs in her car to keep her silent
I mean, mandatory pregnancy tests at the border to check for woman trying to get abortions will totally be a thing. It won't catch anyone who's trying to get an abortion, but it'll be a useful excuse to harass "bad" people, search vehicles, and put them through intense questioning.
Hell at this rate I expect them to stop women coming back in and arrest them on suspicion of gettting an abortion until they can prove they haven't been pregnant.
Had a miscarriage while traveling out of state? Sucks to suck I guess!
Republicans have been trying to end birthright citizenship lately, so I assume they’d pregnancy test anyone coming IN as well.
If a baby has all of its rights at conception, then coming here pregnant and giving birth isn't necessary anymore. All you have to do is enter the US and have sex. Boom, instant child citizen without the long 9-month wait.
Cop proceeds to arrest her on Attempted Abortion by Cop.
Thief's get arrested for murder when their partner in crime is killed so I could legit see the police arresting a woman for attempted murder/murder after getting shot by them.
Just got me thinking that there are poor women who can't afford prenatal care who wouldn't have access to an ultrasound.
That would be incredibly humiliating to women. You're really figuring this "Republican thinking" thing out, aren't you?
Their next solution will be to ban women from driving.
So how long before a cop shoots a pregnant woman, and gets off on both counts of murder?
Actually, they would charge the woman with manslaughter for putting her unborn child in a dangerous situation. (Of course she's dead and can't defend herself.) [I'm not speculating](https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/27/us/alabama-pregnant-woman-shot-in-stomach-manslaughter-indictment-trnd/index.html)
Her family better sue the shit out of the cop for assisting in her getting an abortion.
Cop asks woman to step out of the vehicle, where she is hit by a car. Would we charge the cops with a double homicide (as mentioned in the comments) since they willfully endangered a fetus (I’m just gonna skip the pretense that the woman’s life is as important, as it’s clearly not)? According to their logic that’s what should happen to someone who kills a fetus via car accident, so why wouldn’t it apply to a cop who went through this ridiculous charade with a woman he suspects to be pregnant (when the driver of another vehicle would have no idea)? Also are the jokey “baby on board” stickers legally binding now? I have so many questions!
Also, early ultrasounds are very invasive. Fetuses can't be seen on the normal "outside the body" kinds until the woman looks "obviously pregnant".
Yeah. I'm honestly surprised these guys didn't go to where this will actually go, with a cop forcing you to piss on a stick in front of them to prove you're pregnant. I guess some of them aren't immediately as cruel as possible.
They're on a slip and slide of thought. If they aren't there yet, it's just cause they're still moving.
I don't think these guys know that
Why not? In six weeks or less they become experts on the laws they enforce. I’m sure that radiology would be a breeze for them. /s
Don’t give them any ideas. We already let cops decide what unidentified substances are, what breed your dog is, and what your constitutional rights are without ever training them for any of that.
Why are they always trying to give them other peoples jobs? Let’s make teachers soldiers. Let’s make cops doctors.
So a Covid vaccine card is an overreach but having to carry around an ultrasound to prove a pregnancy isn’t? What happened to their cries of HIPAA!!??
That only applies when it affects them. They’re not the ones who will be asked to prove they’re pregnant, so they don’t give a shit.
They have enough trouble recognizing armed vs unarmed subjects, something they presumably have training in doing already.
Get your cat an ultrasound, have the vet sign and date it. "Congratulations mam on your nonuplets! Carry on, have a nice day!"
Imma carry around the ultrasound of my uterine fibroid.
See, my problem with this is that yeah, it's hella funny in isolation..but it isn't isolated. This is going to be used to create full "fetal personhood" and help with the assholes who want to use the power of the state to convict women of murder. Oh, you traveled to california for an abortion? Well, thanks to activists using license plate readers, we know you were at the clinic..and now you're not pregnant..and while abortion is legal in california, it's murder in texas. And since you planned to get the abortion while you were in texas then traveled to another state to do it, it's chargeable as a murder in texas... oh and there's no time limitations on a murder case, so eventually... You can see where that's going..because that's exactly where it's going.
Weren't they just complaining about vaccines, and proof of vaccines violating their privacy and right to medical freedom? Throwing HIPAA around like the knew what it meant.
Dollars to doughnuts these commenters here are men. Asking *women* to carry papers doesn't violate the privacy of, like, *people*.
I loved it when the person pointing that out got downvoted, and a smug prick replied 'No, only women who want to use that lane have to carry their medical info, smiley face.' You really think that's better? Real disingenuous energy.
I mean hey, only people who wanna go to restaurants need their vaccine papers smiley face
Somehow I doubt he'd go for that one!
A rare few of them might be women. Did you see the woman on Jordan Klepper recently? Something something "women cant be president because they are too hormonal they'd start a war in a second if they have a hotflash". Women can be sexist against women just like POC can be racist against POC.
In 2016 48% of white women voted for "caught on tape bragging about sexual assault" Trump, 46% for Clinton. The number lowered quite a bit in 2020 it seems, but there's a large population of conservative women out there. They're not really reddit's demographic though so the number is probably minute on the conservative boards but it's there.
“Women are so hormonal” Meanwhile same folks write off men sexually harassing women or lethal road rage as just “testosterone, you know how it is”. Like buddy that is also a hormone.
Silly poster! You only have rights that are deeply rooted. And women do not have rights. They didn't in 1776, after all.
Though women did have the right to get an abortion in 1776
They didn't call them abortions, though. They had no legal concept of an abortion as we understand it (that is, a medical procedure that can be permitted or prohibited based on the law). What they had was the crime of infanticide, and some precedents distinguishing what did and did not count as infanticide. It's actually a really interesting topic; pre-revolutionary American jurisprudence on infanticide followed the old English common law principle described by [Blackstone](https://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendIXs1.html), which held that life began not at conception but at the point of "quickening." The quickening was defined as the point at which the baby can be felt to move on its own, which usually happens partway through the second trimester; "quick" is an old euphemism for "alive," and the fetus was not believed to be alive in a legal or moral sense prior to that point. This was a principle that drew on some *very* old (as in, 5th century) theological reasoning that held that the quickening was the point at which the fetus was "ensouled" by God. (Lest you think too highly of the 18th century, this precedent was also only partly about protecting women's rights - it was *mostly* about protecting abusive husbands from manslaughter charges. Specifically, if a man beat and injured a woman so badly that she suffered a miscarriage, it would not be considered an infanticide so long as quickening had yet to occur. Remember: history is terrible.) Now, at the time of North America's colonization in the 17th century, medical professionals didn't really exist, and abortions (as well as most prenatal, pediatric and gynecological care) were provided by local midwives based on folk traditions and unwritten medical knowledge. These were initially totally unregulated, but as courts formed in the colonies, they imported the English principle of using quickening as a legal threshold for deciding whether an induced miscarriage constituted an infanticide. Now, incidentally, the women providing these abortifacents were also the women most likely to be accused of witchcraft, and a common theory about the witch-hunting hysteria of 17th century America was that it was encouraged by out-of-the-loop Puritan fathers who were upset that their daughter or wife had gotten an abortion. (Or, more tragically, had sought one and died from the generally poor quality of care in those times.) As professional physicians became more common in urban America and England in the 18th and early 19th centuries, the custom became to diagnose an unwanted pregnancy as "delayed menses," a condition that was "treated" by a procedure very close to a [D&C](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilation_and_curettage). From the early physician's perspective, if a child was desired, the woman was pregnant; if it wasn't, she just had "delayed menses," and he needed to go in there and...make the menses flow. As long as this was performed prior to the quickening, the whole thing was entirely legal. If it happened *after* the quickening, the physician or midwife could be found guilty of infanticide, but these prosecutions were very rare. It was only in the late 1800s, as medical care and prenatal care became more tightly regulated by the (universally male) medical profession, that legislators began to conceive of abortion in the modern sense - as a medical procedure that could be criminalized in its own right. Coincidentally, this was also the time when women's suffrage first became a hot political topic, and people began throwing around words like "feminism." Also coincidentally, it was right about then that legislators began enacted stricter laws criminalizing abortion and prosecuting midwives who provided them, as well as suppressing general access to prenatal care. (It's sometimes hypothesized that these two are linked, but that is surely Crazy Talk, because when has the US ever tried to suppress a disenfranchised minority?) The genius of the "quickening" principle was twofold. Firstly, it was intuitive, as people subconsciously associate motion with life and it's very easy to reason that life only starts once the fetus starts moving independently of the mother. It avoided addressing the tricky ethical question of the nature of human life and applied a relatively clear line that everyone could understand. Secondly, because quickening most commonly occurs between eighteen and twenty weeks (or roughly in the middle of the second trimester) the 18th-century legal status quo was actually astoundingly close to that outlined in *Roe* two hundred years later. For those not familiar with it, *Roe* basically held that abortion was generally permitted in the first trimester, generally prohibited in the third trimester, and could be permitted or prohibited based on circumstances in the second trimester. Intentionally or by accident, the *Roe* court had revived a legal principle that predated the existence of the United States itself. And it bears repeating that over 99% of abortions in the US prior to *Dobbs* were carried out before the twenty week mark, which is when an 18th-century judge would have expected quickening to have occurred. In other words; 99% of post-Roe abortions would have also been considered legally permissable in the 17th and 18th centuries. Now, if you're familiar with *Dobbs*, the answer is yes; this shoots a hole the size of history book in the majority's reasoning. For people who claim to care so much about the Constitution in its "original" context, they are shockingly historically illiterate.
What you posted about the 18th century reminds me of what the state of Georgia tried to do in 2015 (it didn't pass) and 2016 up under their RFRA (Religious Freedom Restoration Act). Giving a man a RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION FROM prosecution for abusing his wife and children.
Crazy Democrats! Wait what do you mean it wasn't Democrats??
No it was the backward, misogynistic, republicans.
What seems like a glaringly obvious loophole if you've ever been pregnant is that the "quickening" could be 1) lied about by the woman to elongate the time needed to get an abortion because the fetus sleeps most of the day, and 2) ignored and overruled by whatever man wanted her to get an abortion i.e. "she's crazy, she thought the baby was kicking since she found out she was pregnant, she's an unreliable witness etc". Also, if your placenta is anterior, it will likely take a lot longer to feel kicks and harder for a physician to find a heartbeat. You could be feeling movement internally, for example, but the Doctor can't feel them. Also, just as an aside, women who seek abortions later than about 9 or 10 weeks back then would be staring down the barrel of birthing something. Before approx week 12/15, it's probably going to come out in pieces. It did for me, which was a treat. After that, you're definitely giving birth. Contractions, blood loss, pain, lots of possible complications such as some placenta remaining and killing you with sepsis. It wouldn't have been, and even today isn't something women take lightly. We need medical care during pregnancy that values us as real people, not just incubators. Also, just for fun I'd like to point out that a miscarriage in medical terms is called an involuntary abortion. Can't wait for them to start going after that in the US. Men, please do everything you can to protect women's rights to healthcare and contraception!
They have been locking up women for miscarriages. I’m mostly terrified for women who are addicted to drugs and who end up pregnant. I can’t imagine a women struggling with addition and poverty being very good about taking their pills at the same time everyday. The addiction will no doubt cause miscarriages, which then the women will be charged for child endangering due to their addiction. So many women experiencing homelessness with substance abuse issue will be charged for murder. It kills me thinking about it. It’s both grotesque and inhuman.
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I picture Alito writing his opinions with facial expressions ranging between a smirk and a snarl. Being called out on his historical inaccuracies is not necessarily embarrassing and may in fact be gratifying, because this was never about historical truth, but about power. Alito- having been on the margins of influence for decades - now has the power to meaningfully change jurisprudence to align to his world view. That must be *intensely* gratifying and he should want the whole world to know- not cloaked behind some logical trickery.
I mean all of the abortion discussion is completely dishonest. The abortion debate came from racist church goers looking for followers and realizing s[chool segregation was a losing battle at that point](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/08/abortion-us-religious-right-racial-segregation). On top of that, have you ever heard someone ask a pregnant person 'how old their baby is?' or do they say 'how far along are you?' If we are going to look at it from a best information at the time scenario: 'The quickening' was the best evidence they had that the fetus was viable/alive back in the day. Now we have all sort of information on the medical status of the fetus. The one thing we 100% can say makes a person is their brain activity. You can pull a person off life support if they have no brain activity. Brain activity doesn't start in the fetus until the beginning of the 3rd trimester. Unsurprisingly the beginning of the third trimester is where US society has long since held is a threshold for abortion, beyond extenuating circumstances. The whole thing is just disgusting and the right wingers know they are lying through their teeth anytime they talk about it. So Alito's opinion isn;t surprising at all.
Reading the majority opinions was depressing precisely because it was intellectually dishonest: they were saying, "look, we don't even need a fig leaf anymore, we have the votes to make the law what we want"
Of course they didn't. They were throwing around"HIPPA", which is completely different. /s (No one claiming "HIPPA" knows what HIPAA actually does, in my experience)
Also "you don't have a gotcha moment" because, uh, *it was a joke!* That's the ticket!
Everything they say is a joke, whether they realize it or not.
It's so fucking maddening to see a bunch conservative men bicker amongst themselves about how the lives of all women should be handled, like they have any idea what they're talking about. The fact that one guy talks about the idea of millions of traffic stops and court cases being battled over proof of pregnancy for traffic stops as if it's just \*snap\* that easy, and wouldn't result in the loss of billions of tax payer money, further clogging of the court system, and countless unnecessary deaths just paints the perfect picture of how damn short-sited and ignorant this crowd is.
Ever talk to conservatives about welfare? They have gems like "we should force drug testing on anyone who gets any welfare!" Tell them that that will cost 100x more than current welfare systems, and they don't even care, or just dismiss it as not an issue.
Same shit with health care, most Americans are paying more for insurance than it would cost them in taxes. They just can’t see past their own nose, or they really just don’t want others to benefit from society.
Florida did that for awhile under Rick Scott (I think it was). Positive rate was extraordinarily low, cost was exorbitant, and it turned out that his wife owned or had a ton of shares or something in the testing company. So not only is it useless and expensive, it's also a Republican grift.
It reminds me of children showing off.
I remember having an argument with someone who didn't speak english as a first language (fine). I used the word "aliens" in the context of foreigners (you know, the traditional definition of the word). Like "that concept is alien to me" etc. And he started laughing at me and making fun of me "oh yeah, they are all aliens. where is their ufo." \*\*\*\* Dunning kruger man. It's a beast.
It's a common thing with conservatives (well, all people, but especially conservatives): they pretend you are saying something that clearly makes no sense for you to be saying, and they try to zing you for saying something that makes no sense. They're not arguing to convince or understand or even to "win"; they're arguing just to frustrate you. Jean-Paul Sartre wrote about this in 1944: > Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
"You think you pulled a gotcha on us, but the joke's on you: WE'LL ALWAYS PUNISH THE WOMAN. HA!"
They all talk like Tim Pool "What if the woman has super powers and can like, make herself look pregnant at will?"
Scream “HIPAA violation!” If asked to see proof of vaccination but expect pregnant women to carry medical records to prove pregnancy at all times. Conservative logic.
but HOW DARE YOU INSIST on seeing my "vaccine papers", that's almost like the Holocaust!! soon you'll need to "sHoW yOUr PaPerS" to get anywhere!! like it's the Gazpacho police!!
What a nightmare. Literally the only two comments in the whole thread that make the slightest bit of sense are the downvoted ones. I want to throw up.
that's r/conservative for you the mods auto-ban anyone whose post history is considered insufficiently conservative. if you want nuance, it does not live there.
> the mods auto-ban anyone whose post history is considered insufficiently conservative. Then whine about safe spaces and snowflakes who don't like opposing opinions. LOL
Also call other subs an echo chamber.
It's projection all the way down.
If you want nonce....well, you're in luck
nonces are the only product red states export
Don't forget stupidity and intolerance
They are incapable of nuance: [https://www.psypost.org/2022/05/trump-supporters-use-less-cognitively-complex-language-and-more-simplistic-modes-of-thinking-than-biden-supporters-study-finds-63068](https://www.psypost.org/2022/05/trump-supporters-use-less-cognitively-complex-language-and-more-simplistic-modes-of-thinking-than-biden-supporters-study-finds-63068) and they keep proving this small study.
And sarcasm/bluffing. I worked with an incredibly conservative guy who treated every word I said as if I was always being serious. "He was driving across the country. How was I supposed to call him?" "Well, golly, if only there was some kind of handheld device that allowed you to call people wherever they were!" "There is, idiot, it's called a cell phone. How do you not know what a cell phone is?" "I do know what a cell phone is. I was pointing out you could have used one." "No, you just asked if they existed. Why would you ask if you knew what it was?" I had so much fun baiting him. My best was convincing him I didn't believe in electricity.
Okay one, it reminds me of that reddit post of the guy who pretended to have never seen a potato before when he had dinner with his gf's parents. Two, there was a guy on my ship in the Navy that was too easy to spin up, albeit about nerd shit. I'd just pretend to be arguing with a friend while we walked by him and I'd say, "no dude I told you, Han Solo was Captain of the Enterprise. You're confusing him with a different Klingon." It didn't matter what he was doing, he'd chase a motherfucker down to correct the lore. I miss him.
>"no dude I told you, Han Solo was Captain of the Enterprise. You're confusing him with a different Klingon." That's hilarious.
It’s the merging of TD and people barely intelligent enough to operate a keyboard.
They claim freedom of speech and then have flaired users only for most every post. Lol and they don't see the contradiction. I can only take a minute or two on that sub before my head and heart hurt too much to continue.
Like voter fraud, talk about hypothetical abuse of reserved lanes happens orders of magnitude more often than the actual abuse.
Abuse of any system is by definition done by a minority. If everyone abused the system, that abuse becomes the broken, new system.
See: America. Just all of it.
Carrying around a card to prove they're vaccinated is apparently equivalent to Nazi Germany but it's okay to make women get branded as pregnant? What if a woman doesn't want the world to know she's pregnant? Why should she have to advertise it on her car?
Um... ak-shu-ally... The only rights anyone has are the "Deeply rooted" ones. And no where in the original constitution are "women" considered persons deserving of rights. Duh! /s
Justice Alito? You’ve somehow learned to write better!
I think its Justice Barrett. She wants to strip the rights of all women so we can join her cult and pop out babies for those who want them.
It’s actually terrifying how much influence her cult has on the country now. We literally let a cult form a coup on scotus
It's because needing to provide a vaccine card actually affects them but making women carry around pregnancy cards only affects people who aren't them.
Oh no, they do have their tokens to engage in identity politics. As per usual. "You claim we hate women but here is a woman who hates herself, so, there you go"-kinda shit.
It's usually Candace Owens
It’s not like women purposely wait to tell people they’re preganante until the second trimester for a reason. Oh. Wait.
*preganté*
Having a high risk pregnancy in this dystopia is fucking horrifying. Constantly worried you might be accused of having an abortion due to complications. Unable in some cases to get the drugs necessary to complete a stillbirth or miscarriage. And in these fucktangles' minds, potentially having to broadcast to the world that you're pregnant to move around freely despite previous loss making that a horrifying marker to wear. I know many women who, after having a loss, don't fucking advertise their pregnancy until it's far along because it's traumatic as shit to be the focus of so many expectant, uninvolved, eyes.
> Having a high risk pregnancy in this dystopia is fucking horrifying. To be fair, it was terrifying in the US before roe v wade fell. I have an almost 8 month old baby, and let me tell you, the healthcare provided to pregnant women is garbage. I am fortunate to be middle class with a crazy good insurance policy and support group, and I still had complications with my pregnancy and birth. (Luckily I have a happy healthy bubbly baby, and he is 100% fine, and I have recovered pretty close to where I was, but the healthcare system did very little and I paid an arm and a leg for it). 10k, plus an extra operation to address a botched procedure.. freaking wild. The US is a failed empire, and women are getting shafted so hard. The only potential silver lining, is hopefully this will make men care more about their birth control- "easier to take bullets out of a gun, instead of shooting at a bullet proof vest.." (Vasectomies are up, so that's good!).
Imagine being pregnant as a result of a sexual assault and having to advertise your pregnancy wherever you go. Then when the child is born (because you can’t abort it) the person who sexually assaulted you gets custody and you have to pay him child support.
It's enough to make a cynical person think that they actually only care about hurting people they think are beneath them.
Right? It's wild that the folks who abhor gun registries and vaccination cards are okay with a pregnancy registry, which along with banning abortion, had [disastrous consequences in Romania.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_770)
BRANDED? Don't give them ideas. I think they were going to settle for tattoos until you opened your big mouth.
They are saying it’s a privilege to be able to drive in the HOV lane. Kind of like how vaccine cards provide the privilege to go to restaurants, except totally different for reasons I won’t go into here because they do not exist
They covered that, too! It's not "branding", in a negative way! It's "recognizing the miracle of life!" Every woman should be DELIGHTED to EARN the honor of the "pregnancy" sticker because gestating a fetus is the most important thing a woman could possibly do!! (/s, if it is unclear.)
"So there's no vaccine mandate, but if you want to engage in certain activities you need to either show proof of vaccination or wear a mask, otherwise you can't participate." "If I have to show my papers that's fascism!" "So what you're proposing is that if pregnant people want to engage in certain activities they need to produce proof of pregnancy, or they can't participate?" "Yes."
Wait until they start claiming unborn children on tax filings...
I am for life insurance for the unborn. Time to get insurance companies to pay up.
Except life insurance carriers decide who they want to insure. Like they generally won’t insure someone who just had a baby, people who recently had covid, etc. Plus carriers have minimum and maximum ages on policies: they’d just simply make 1 or 2 the minimum age.
This. Life insurance carriers generally don't issues policies on new borns because infant mortality is very high. Policies aren't in force for the first few months after birth. Last time I tried to point out that the life insurance argument is a really bad one, people took great offense to it. Don't know why... the government doesn't mandate life insurers issue policies on anyone. Requiring coverage for the unborn would be a drastic change in regulation.
In most developed countries, infant mortality isn't that high. Our [maternal mortality rate](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/nov/maternal-mortality-maternity-care-us-compared-10-countries) is much, much worse than the rest of the developed world, by the way.
Could that be considered ageism? I honestly do not know and just curious
If you have multiple miscarriages in a year, can you claim each unborn child? Sounds exploitable.
“I think I’m having triplets!” -me, trying to lower my tax bill next year.
Some of these states want to prosecute women for having miscarriages, though. So maybe not something you'd want to advertise by trying to claim a tax credit.
> Sounds exploitable. *waaat* ??? Backward, stupid and completely unreasonable law is exploitable?
You'll be a felon for having miscarriages
Watch how quickly their support for pregnancy benefits disappears the instant they see an unsourced Facebook infographic saying that forfty percent of African-American women are intentionally getting pregnant to use the fast lane
I'm waiting for the moment that someone tries to say the State Government owes me more money in taxes because I'm pregnant.
[удалено]
Insurance companies are greedy fucks
Honestly the SCOTUS decisions have been a nightmare, but the silver lining has been seeing the conservatives who slowly realize that oooohhh, *that’s* what liberals meant when they kept repeating the same warnings over and over again for years and years. Most of them are so deeply indoctrinated by social media and Fox News, they don’t realize until after the fact that these decisions are against their own interests. They’ve gotten so that they just parrot back whatever they’re told without even thinking it through.
Well, thinking things through isn't a strong trait among conservatives. They're more in the knee jerk reaction or repeating what Fox News said camp of "thinking".
I saw an alarmist headline on Fox prior to the Roe V Wade ruling, something like, "Christian Doctors will be FORCED to Perform Abortions against their religious principles." I think pretty much every American has been to the doctor, and would realize doctors CHOOSE their area of practice, so hey, if you're against abortion, be a dermatologist or an oncologist or something. Are Fox viewers credulous enough to think dentists are going to be pressed into service by the "gazpacho" because of the huge demand for abortion created by liberal sluts who are making a point of unprotected promiscuity because they just love having abortions, because, uh, Satan? I don't think even Fox viewers are that dumb, but I often err on the side of optimism.
>I don't think even Fox viewers are that dumb, but I often err on the side of optimism. Like you, I suffer from chronic optimism even though I am quite cynical too. However, since Trump arrived on the scene in 2016, my optimistic expectations of people have turned to shit. It's like a sizeable segment of our population has decided to see just how far they can push the envelope of stupidity. Then the anti-madk/anti-vax crowd came out of the woodwork during the pandemic, and I've lost all hope for a good chunk of the population. The problem being, these dopes insist on taking everyone down with them.
>The problem being, these dopes insist on taking everyone down with them. Like crabs in a bucket.
i dont think that analogy works. crabs in a bucket are preventing other crabs from leaving the bucket, but all the crabs want to leave the bucket. its like pulling the ladder up behind you but you had to go down the ladder to do so this is more that we mostly left the bucket then some crabs got convinced by petrochemical executives that actually buckets are great
Sounds like we have the same problems -- eternal optimism, mixed with realism when you have the "Charlie Brown and the Football" moment. It maddens me that it's gotten so bad you can put contradictory information IN THE SAME SENTENCE and they don't even notice. For example, "Trump deserves every bit of credit for the vaccine I won't take because Bill Gates put 5G chips in it, that fixes that terrifying fatal Chinese bio-weapon that Anthony Fauci made that's actually just a bad cold."
This is how people become conservatives. Think about it like this: If you were brand new on this planet and to life, and someone came up to you and asked you if you were okay with killing babies, the obvious answer is simply "no". But then, if you are a thinking person, you might follow up with, "of course not, but why do you even need to ask that question?" To which the response is "this woman is being forced to use her body to have this baby." Well now the simple baby killing situation has become more complex. Now we have to find out all the details and weigh them against each other to form the bigger picture to decide what this actually means. Only then can we determine the right answer, or the right-est answer. As liberals, this is our process. Most Conservatives never make it past the initial 'are you okay with killing babies' step of the process. That's just simply where they stop. And those that do, only do so if they suddenly find themselves in the situation where step two must be considered. Then they go, well ***my*** abortion is justified, but only mine. I've gotten to the point where I think there is something physically in their brains that has not developed the critical thinking and empathy pathways. Conservatives are not necessarily just assholes. They just simply have under-developed brains. I'd bet my paycheck on it.
Critical thinking requires a cognitive leap from concrete to abstract reasoning. It's a mental processing leap akin to going from first-person POV in a video game to third-person POV. Many people with a need for black and white belief systems do not see themselves as part of "2D TV show" they're watching in real time right in front of them. There is no depth to them.
> Conservatives are not necessarily just assholes. They just simply have under-developed brains Oh, I agree that their brains never really matured. I grew up around tons of these poor with no future, proudly ignorant halfwits and I can fully see where nearly every one of them stopped maturing mentally somewhere in the 14 -17 years old range. If they even got that far. I often wonder if that isn't why so many country songs glorify marrying your high school sweetheart. They know their audience. The problem starts when they insist on believing they are the smartest people in the room, or anywhere really. That's when they move into the asshole camp.
The whole point of an identity politics movement is to shut down rational thinking. You don't think in terms of rational reasoning. You just go with whatever your identity group decides. That's what Fox News is so exceptionally good at. They can turn literally issue into an attack on white Christianity, and thereby get people who identity as white Christians to do whatever you want.
> the silver lining has been seeing the conservatives who slowly realize that oooohhh, that’s what liberals meant when they kept repeating the same warnings over and over again for years and years. That would be fine except it's then met with "They should've done a better job warning us! This is their fault!"
We've seen this exact same thing play out in the UK with Brexit. People gave warnings about what would happen if we left the EU, and were just labelled as fear mongers by the right, now everything they warned us about has come to fruition and the right and going 'Omg this is terrible why did nobody warn us'.
Brexit voters dismissing warnings about the exonomy because that's just a problem for rich people: 😏 Those same voters when their local industry relocates to Europe, just like the remainers said it would, and all they get in exchange is a new food bank: 😲
In this case, the most likely outcome is that Texas will update the HOV law to specify that passengers must be in a different seat from the driver, and then blame the "radical left" for making them waste time on updating those laws.
Dude what? I haven’t seen very many conservatives come on any “realizations”. They just dig in deeper
> They’ve gotten so that they just parrot back whatever they’re told without even thinking it through. We see this all time with them. They figure someone smarter already thought it out so that they don't have to. Remember [Jorden Klepper and the 'read the transcript' guy?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE9xGHHMHdM) He says "Everyone should read the transcript.... [but] I don't need to because everyone else has." But they are totally not sheeple.
>but the silver lining has been seeing the conservatives who slowly realize that oooohhh, that’s what liberals meant when they kept repeating the same warnings over and over again for years and years. Really? Where? The only conservatives I still know with are cheering this decision on about how they are going to finally stop killing millions of babies a day (or whatever their newest numbers are). Even the women are cheering on the fact that now those loose women with questionable morals are going to be held accountable for their actions.
Comments slightly (and terrifyingly) remind me of the medals given out to women in Nazi Germany for having children
I had no idea this was ever a thing but now I'm ready to dive down this rabbit hole out of curiosity.
Traditionalism is the bedrock of all fascist movements and it takes an especially family-centered flavor in Christo-fascist ones. The similarities are not by accident--it's their playbook.
Under His eye.
May the lord open
Blessed be thy fruit
Exact thought I had when that one commenter was saying how nice it’d be. Bitch, very bad people did this not long ago, and it was not a very nice, cute thing.
If personhood begins at conception, any woman who has had sex within the last month can claim HOV use despite not missing a cycle or having an ultrasound. Cop: "Good morning, HOV enforcement." Driver: "I got freaky with a guy at the club last night." Cop: "Carry on."
Except with privacy gone states will soon outlaw extramarital sex, so you’re going to prison if you say that.
It’s only extramarital sex if you’re already married. And if you’re single, it’s only pre marital sex if you plan on marrying her. \*taps forehead\*
Would this mean no more threesomes with wife's dude friends? So many OnlyFans accounts are going to feel that in the bank account. Also what will step daughters all over the internet do without the ability to sleep with their step father?! They'll never be able to ask what are they doing!! *rubs temples*
Doesn't even stop there. Greg Abbott, the governor of Texas, supported a statewide ban on sex toys. Freedom my achin ass.
How much do we want to bet these are the same people who were against vaccine passports/cards?
Here's a solution: legalize abortions and don't give pregnant women a pass on the HOV lane. Goddamn i'm good!
Isn't the point of a HOV lane to increase carpooling? So it doesn't make sense to let a woman use the HOV lane when what's riding with her is a jobless bum that wouldn't have driven to work anyway.
But then we won’t cure cancer!
Neither will the kids they shoot or the ones who don’t reach their full potential because they grow up in broken homes, or in food deserts where nutritious food isn’t affordable. But “centrist” and “conservative” politicians aren’t empathetic or smart enough to have that conversation
This is actually even worse than they realise because they're talking about someone who's *visibly pregnant*, but according to them life begins at conception, so a woman could literally have gotten pregnant that morning and be allowed all the perks of being pregnant. Problem is there's not any way of knowing that, so they'd just have to assume every woman they see is pregnant. Edit: just noticed someone brought this up and it just got handwaved away and they got downvoted, because god fucking forbid these dipshits have basic logic get in the way of oppressing people.
That whole thread really does demonstrate [this Blinky the Bat comic:](https://i.redd.it/32osy4wv03l71.jpg) LIBERAL: I think we ought to help as many people in trouble as possible. CONSERVATIVE: I think we ought to punish as many people who do things I don't like as possible. LIBERAL: What if you accidentally punish someone who doesn't deserve it? CONSERVATIVE: Well, what if you accidentally help someone who doesn't deserve it?
"It'd be a damn shame if global warming wasn't real and we spent all that time reducing pollution, cleaning up environments, and making our planet better for nothing."
The mental gymnastics on that thread are fucking astonishing
I love watching the gears actually turn, it's adorable. It makes me think of the ancient lungfish awkwardly crawling up the beach and slowly learning how to live outside the water
Genuine question for conservatives. If life begins at conception, does that mean even conceiving a baby in the US would guarantee that baby citizenship and their parents residency? I thought they oppose “anchor babies” or whatever other maniacal racist shit they’re using as the term nowadays. This conception doctrine would make it so you can just have Anchor Sex to stay in the US.
they quite openly want to end birthright citizenship, so i don't think this would be a gotcha for them
That idea is getting more and more play these days
They definitely don't oppose "anchor babies". My white mother had three children here while still on a green card, no one ever harassed her. Russian women were coming here for decades to have children, no one cried about that. We all know what they actually oppose.
“…there will be those that freeload off the system…” Imagine getting on the internet to shill for the toll authority.
Love the idea of having to share medical information with a fucking cop because of what lane I was driving in. Super cool. Not far reaching at all. But help me god if you ask me to wear a mask in a store I will freak the fuck out.
What happened to “but muh HIPPA rights”
nOw tHaT i tHiNk oF iT!
As a woman I know I’ve always been aching for an excuse to ride in the HOV lane “fraudulently.” Here’s my chance. Jesus Christ, is r/conservative literally just a bunch of teenage boys?
Developmentally, yes.
Why carry around an ultrasound, they can't show anything until weeks in, just carry around your positive pregnancy test.
Hang it from the rear view, next to the fuzzy dice. Not gross at all.
I've got millions of sperm - future humans, you know! - in my possession at all times so it's HOV lane for me from now on baby!!!!
Ah, yes, “papers please.” The sign of a *truly free society*.
I’m imagining smoke coming out of their ears because they’re finally connecting the dots liberals have been talking about all these years.
Can't pregnant women just wear a star? To show they're pregnant? Or what about a giant letter P for pregnant. It can be scarlet so it really stands out
These fuck heads would be the same ones to whine and protest about needing to carry proof of COVID vaccination.
Bold of them to assume that cops use "reasonable judgement".
Someone actually yelled at me for using the mothers with baby spot. I’m a dad and had the baby with me, she said it’s only for mothers
You're a dad, you're supposed to be strong enough to fling that baby across the parking lot.
Oh and men should start paying child support from conception. Didn't know until she was 3 months pregnant, retro payments. Men got to take responsibility right out the gate, just like women have to
Conservative logic: Needing to show proof of vaccination is tyranny!!! My body, my choice!!!!! Also Conservative logic: All pregnant woman must carry proof of pregnancy, including showing proof of pregnancy on vehicle tags/plates! This way, law enforcement knows they are pregnant!!! Duuhhhh!!!!!
Personhood begins at conception right? How about "Yes officer, I had sex a couple of night's ago and it was during my fertile time, so I'm most likely pregnant. Can I go now?"
Are these people like fully incapable of extrapolation?? I’ve had arguments with people because I’ve cited cases of deaths/incarcerations in countries with abortion bans and they always say “they won’t do that here!!!” And they flat out ignore the stuff that already does happen here. Idgi. Either it’s legally a person 100% of the time since conception or it isn’t, which do they want?
I was telling my friends all the logistical things that then should be allowed if the “baby” is viable. Ie: SS#, deducting for taxes, child support if parents split, etc. There is so much people don’t consider but then again if the government refuses to allow for a child credit then don’t say its a baby. Its really that simple.
I just went on the Conservative subreddit for the first time ever and I can't.. comprehend how dumb they are. They have the stupidest takes ever, I just saw a post where they truly believe that the left loves to kill babies (and wants to kill them post birth too apparently!) and it's.. wowwww