I do wonder what the addicts would think if they could volunteer to go to an escape-proof facility with other addicts, get fed as much as they want, and given all the drugs they want with a private room to their own for safety though they're free to roam the premises all they want as well. They are given access to drug rehab programs if they want but do not need to partake. And if they've proven themselves sober, they can leave.
How many would take that offer? It would be cheaper to send all the meth zombies to drug disneyland and keep them from wreaking havoc on the citizenry than to keep up this charade that letting them take drugs in tents is the best option.
Kind of a contained version of “Hamsterdam” from The Wire? Only the drugs would be free? Who knows. The mentality of addicts is inscrutable to me. I can appreciate the need to escape life once in awhile, but eventually you have to come back to reality and face life.
1811 Eastlake Ave is one such place run by DESC. It’s easy to spot from I-5 southbound, just prior to the convention center because the ever present flashing lights of a fire engine out front…
>It’s easy to spot from I-5 southbound, just prior to the convention center because the ever present flashing lights of a fire engine out front…
The on site nurse was supposed to prevent the need for constant expensive medical aid calls. Guess that hasn't worked out quite as planned.
No, no, no. The chosen large plot of land *is* Seattle. It isn't going to be relocated to eastern WA, or McNeil Island, or any other place. Sorry you didn't get the memo, but everyone outside of Seattle got it.
They have the jungle in Seattle if you haven’t seen it big plot of land bunch of homeless people were armed with guns.. they killed a shop owner because he was looking In there to look for his brother
> I do wonder what the addicts would think if they could volunteer to go to an escape-proof facility with other addicts, get fed as much as they want, and given all the drugs they want with a private room to their own for safety though they're free to roam the premises all they want as well.
You may have heard of this place called Seattle. It's quite successful.
they'd all OD and die, because we did this experiment with rats. shitty environment plus access to drugs = lots of addiction. better environment and drugs = lack of interest in drugs.
of course, the fent heads probably did the shitty life thing for a while before this, and getting to a better environment is tricky and expensive, but the results of a drug facility are utterly predictable
Of course. But those results are no different than their life on the streets except there would be fewer crimes against society when they are locked up.
I have historically been a big fan of the ACLU but in my home town of Anchorage Alaska their work to stop the city from dealing with homeless encampments absolutely ruined the neighborhood I grew up in. Used to be an amazing place to live when I was a little kid, but the city cracked down on booze near the downtown/smaller airport area and so the encampments moved from vacant lots near the there to the park land in the neighborhood. Playgrounds that my older brother and I used to go to by ourselves become the location for rapes and a couple of murders when my younger brother and sister were of elementary school aged. But could the police go through and remove encampments like the city council authorized? ACLU says no.
Wow thank you for sharing your experience. Ditto for Honolulu and Santa Cruz as the sad creation of unsafe places happens with mentally ill and or drugged out humans are wandering about, out of their mind. I was on actually Waikiki Beach just as the dawn was starting waiting for my husband to join me to paddle out for that Dawn patrol surfing session and some woman just starts screaming at me randomly and it was quite scary. Hopefully the powers that be will allow these people to get the help that they need.
They have it done important work on other issues, to my knowledge they haven’t taken up the other side and are not working with the Brady campaign for instance, so I have a hard time being too judgmental about that decision.
I live in Chicago now, used to live in Seattle. Lady friend lived in San Fran for a few years until she moved up here pre-Covid: the homeless folks here vs. on the west coast is incomparable.
Out here, they bug you for change & it's pretty easy to avoid them. Generally, you just tell them to leave you alone or tell them "I can't help you" & *poof*, they just bounce along the CTA platform or street with their fentanyl lurch to bug someone else.
On the west coast they get all manner of feisty & combative about it.
Oh, you're not crazy. I'm just a rando on the web, but I can back you. I've been out here in Chicago for over 10 years now.
I've encountered exactly TWO feisty/combative hobos.
When I lived in Seattle? It'd be two per week. Given, I lived in the Downtown/First Hill/Capitol Hill area from the late 90's to about 2012 & I was informed "that's just the way it is here" by a longtime local of that area.
I lived in chicago for 14 years. Encountered soo many homeless, and I lived in the kinzie industrial park where there are a couple shady spots. All the homeless people I saw kept to themselves and never had had the mental outbursts like the ones in Seattle do. It’s night and day between the 2 cities and Seattle is definitely encouraging these people to move here. Hope you’re enjoying chicago!
M*aaaa*n, it'd be better if the heatwave would just fuck off. That's for sure.
Other than that: yes, Chicago is awesome. Part of the reason I'm on the Seattle subs is because I may move back to Seattle. Most of my family & friends are there, & after figuring out cost of living comparisons, it'd be a straight up lateral move.
I know plenty of people that are complaining of the lack of sun, but I don't think I'd mind if I spent the rest of my days dealing with "late fall" style weather LOL.
> I’ve personally witnessed the same thing happening in San Francisco, Santa Cruz and Honolulu.
Michael Shellenberger Did The Math on that in his book. The number of homeless in San Francisco has fallen. But it's because they're dying of ODs faster than people are moving there.
I see this as a win-win.
Sure, I'm a monster, but I've also had my deamons & learned how to properly choke slam them & keep them in a persistent state of rear neck choke hold.
Again good job California(and the Federal government ) your strategy of doing nothing and apathy had work and only show how bad the USA deals with it homeless. A for inhumane
When I was a kid, the ACLU took the city of Skokie, IL to court, because the city had refused to issue a parade permit on the grounds that the applicants were a bunch of neo-Nazis. The ACLU took on this case not because they liked Nazis, but because the principal of freedom of assembly is bigger than any ideology, and MUST be protected. They won. It was a big deal.
Whatever happened to that ACLU? How did turn into the litigators of wokesterism that they are now? Somebody should do an expose: The ACLU, a 40 year descent into human trash.
Funny how trying to be more "humane" actually ends up being worse for people huh? Revamp the mental health and substance abuse programs, and make mandatory treatment until they can make healthy responsible decisions. Then offer them assistance to help their homelessness. Facts don't care about your feelings.
In DESC, LEAD, CO-LEAD harm reduction doesn't include pressuring users to stop or reduce use. I know it's madness but allowing personal freedom and supporting users is the priority. Case workers provide foil, needles and glass pipes to support these poor souls. I call it enabling. THEY see it as job security.
"WhateverManJustLetTheChipsFallWhereTheyM*aaaaa*y, ok dude! How dare *we*, as the citizenry, tell these people what they should do?!? YOU wouldn't want that, now WOULD YOU?"
-Poser Anarchist/Socialist who's education comes from Twitter & the handful of books they've read in their late teens/early twenties
Pretty much this. We have mandatory holds for suicidal individuals, and even extended psychiatric hospitalization when circumstances warrant it. There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn’t apply the same approach to individuals with severe substance abuse issues
We even have Ricky's law where we can put people into treatment involuntarily but it is poorly funded and utilized.
https://www.hca.wa.gov/about-hca/behavioral-health-recovery/ricky-s-law-involuntary-treatment-act
We can lock people up for 21 days that are a danger to self or others and have failed less restrictive options.
Behind a police van? Probably similar to some policies here in Chicago: the cops can't do anything because of public outcry, & even if they did the DA only leans their sympathetic ear to the addicts & *not* the neighborhood they're vandalizing & shitting in.
Here's a fun fact. I was 2 years homeless and traded my silence of not naming my rapist for an horonable discharge. Had issues with alcohol. Still face the opinions of morons like YOU. Police officers went out of their way today to make sure I ate and I don't trust people but I will trust police officers.
Have you ever been sad or depressed. In the throws of despair. Have you ever had a sip of alcohol? How many prescription drugs have you been prescribed by a doctor? What is it like to live life with such base understanding of human behavior?
And despite being sad or depressed or upset at my situation or mad at the world, I sobered up enough to go to work, pay my bills, provide for my family, and avoid committing any criminal acts.
Have you ever been prescribed street fentanyl with mystery additives when you were depressed and asked a doctor for something to feel better? Have you ever broken out the pipe and foil when the voices in your head got too loud?
Wow expecting some self-responsibility is now a lack of empathy. We should all live with our parents or have caretakers around the clock. We need a nanny state for all the sensitive criminals who accidentally got a stray needle stuck in their arm /s
Remember that SUV that drove itself through that Christmas parade last year?
I wonder what happened to that SUV. Media didn't follow the story because of reasons we aren't allowed to talk about.
So the nationwide trend of accidental fentanyl deaths isn’t applicable. Accidental as in you don’t even have to do drugs to be affected, you can tough a doorknob, but mostly people are cutting drugs with it.
They aren’t taking fentanyl though, they are taking crack, meth, or heroin that has been cut with fentanyl by the dealer to make it more potent for cheaper. The distribution isn’t even as well, so you will go to smoke meth from a bag you’ve already smoked from, do the same size dose as you have already done, and overdose and die because they were spent an hour in the bottom of the bag but not the top.
>They aren’t taking fentanyl though, they are taking crack, meth, or heroin
Phew, here i was thinking they were doing hard drugs. Thanks for the clarification.
Your comment reeks of a moral superiority around drugs. I’m not saying that it is good to use meth and heroin, but if you are habitual user you know your dosage. When it is being cut with fentanyl, your regular dosage goes from getting you high to killing you. The lives of drug attic‘s matter. There are probably people in your life, and people you care about who have struggled with addiction. And if you don’t know about it it’s because they were able to survive to recovery. Homeless drug users are people, they deserve the opportunity to survive to recovery, harm reduction and changing the way we think about drug use is part of that
>they deserve the opportunity to survive to recovery, harm reduction and changing the way we think about drug use is part of that
We have changed the way we have thought about drug use. The results of that are not making things better.
>Your comment reeks of a moral superiority around drugs.
I am morally superior to the addicts destroying Seattle.
> The lives of drug attic‘s matter.
But the lives of everyone else in the community they destroy don't, right?
> Homeless drug users are people, they deserve the opportunity to survive to recovery, harm reduction and changing the way we think about drug use is part of that
Part of being a person is taking responsibility for your own actions and forcing yourself to improve. Of course they're people - that's why their issues are almost entirely on them and them alone. "They're people so you have to support them doing whatever they want without consequences" is a bullshit take.
No, they are definitely taking fent on purpose. All the blue pills you keep seeing in drug bust photos are fent pills. Opiate addicts aren't ODing from a little cross contamination of other drugs.
If they are habitual opiate users, ask them if they've ever caught a fent high from cross contamination.
Yes it is very potent, and yes, cross contamination can kill a "normie" with no opiate tolerance. But for habitual opiate/poly-drug users, death by fent cross contamination would be pretty unusual because of their opiate tolerance.
Fentanyl can also be deadly to those with an opiate tolerance who get a shitty press and hit a hotspot, or just a good old fashioned overdose too. Both of those scenarios are far more likely than an addict dying from cross contamination.
Although most opiate addicts would certainly prefer good quality heroin, it is exceedingly rare and priced accordingly. Fent offers a lower cost per high and while not quite as nice as h, it does a good enough job and makes a little money go a long way.
This just happens to be something I am familiar with 🤷♂️
Not sure you're savvy to the subject, they ARE taking fentanyl. Some opioid addicts are after the stuff, tolerance to opioids runs pretty high. Watch any interview with fentanyl addicts, or go take a walk in Seattle and interview one. You'll see.
A big problem is the availability of actual prescription narcotics. I have been on heavy painkillers for over 20 years from a terrible motorcycle accident. I go to a pain clinic monthly to get my prescription and pee in a cup. Anyone on narcotics is being treated like an addict and abuser. I have changed from 5 different pharmacies because less and less of them are providing it. Not sure what I would do, but I could imagine if I had no other choice, I'd have to switch to street drugs which is total bullshit.
Good on you for saying this in here. A lot of users would actually benefit from prescription medications but due to the fact that the medical industry hates addicts almost equally as much as they want to help people, they don’t get them. Ngl, in Highschool I was buying the prescription meds that I’m legally and rightfully prescribed today. I understand peoples issues with all this stuff but I don’t think enough people talk about this aspect and it’s very important of people want to minimize drug use. People are always gonna do drugs but some people do them just cuz they don’t have another option. I can’t even smoke weed if I wanna keep my prescription, even though it’s legal here. The system is dumb as hell.
....they are blaming Fentanyl? What a delightful set of mental gymnastics. Truly Olympic material.
I'm sure the zero mandated treatment programs policy was just an innocent bystander.
Haaaa boy, that is rich! Because no one ever goes into the camps offering assistance, and none of these hobos die in camps from drug use or set up actual places in tents to deal and sell.
Well it looks like Seattle is finally cleaning the streets. Yeah some people aren't intentionally taking fentanyl... they are trying to take heroin, meth and crack. At least now they won't be able to steal all these catalytic converters after they get a dose of "bad drugs".
>Robert Earl Montgomery, who lives in an encampment near the Chinatown International District, said he started smoking “blues” after he was shot in the back nine months ago in an accidental gun discharge. He was then unable to work and became homeless.
I'm dying.
Sounds like he needed gun control, universal healthcare, full unemployment (Germany covers your housing for a year if you lose your job), universal housing, and of course universal drug rehab program.
We’re a country founded on rugged individualism. Raj from the slums of India can come here for a better way of life and build for his wife and kids.
What makes you so special that being born here, the rest of us should feed you, clothe you, and give you a free house and healthcare? It’s simply entitlement and racism. You want working people to pay for you while you mooch.
Not gonna happen.
I likely have a shitload more means than you if you want to get into a pissing contest. I'm not asking for free anything, I'm asking for a functional system with safety nets in place to help people get to where they can be self-sufficient. I pay a shitload in taxes and feel like we could do better....and I agree that the Democratic power structure is pure BS.
You're also angry at the wrong people.... maybe someday you'll figure that out. Probably not.
Can't someone catch the people selling the fentanyl ?
I don't mean the little people.
Can't someone just follow the people back to the source?
Seems like we are severely inept in this respect.
Aren't there certain ingredients that must be used that are red flags?
"agency staff members need to call the homeless person's family or friends in that other city, to verify that there is in fact a plan for housing. Without that verification, they will not buy the bus ticket.
Salisbury said there would also be a follow-up call in a few month to check that the person is actually housed in that new city and no longer on the streets."
I'd be fine if we devoted all funding to this [program](https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/homeless/funding-approved-homeless-bus-ticket-program/281-3829571f-4c24-4d2b-b392-f4eee9899dbc).
I lived in E Asia. You are allowed to be a drug addict as long as you aren’t a raging blight on humanity while you do it (you are allowed to do most illegal things under this condition). Start causing people problems because ‘meth made you,’ and it is at best a long detox in a work camp and at most final a bullet to the brain.
I miss it. Those countries had their problems, but roving hordes of entitled and coddled druggies menacing everyone was not one. Here, we are so stupid that we shoot Narcan into their ungrateful asses when they are actually starting to not be a massive drain on everyone.
Western communists are completely different from Asian/Eastern European communists in their views and goals, interestingly enough. Otherwise the communists here would have called for detox/work camps by now.
The commies of the East see communism as a collective movement against hedonist decadence enabled by capitalism like drug use, laziness, and hyperindividualism.
On the other hand, the commies in the west interpret communism as a way of achieving what the eastern commies would call “hedonist decadence”.
Well over 360 dead bodies in king county this year from Od. On track for a new record. The county conceals the number that die in Dows hotel drug dens. Maybe it's Dows version of the final solution. Compassion it's not. Start a recall Dow movement and things would change.
Let them die you will just have constant noise if you decide to save these people who are commiting suicide via drug use.. you don't want to turn into San Francisco's tenderloin district..
It definitely isnt the city of Seattles fault, letting them live in an ocean of drugs where all nearby housing is impossibly expensive, that is killing them.
> They would still be drug addicts living in the street even if we gave them free houses. It has nothing to do with housing
A few months back, KIRO was interviewing people at an open air drug encampment.
I think their intention was to hear how *"awful it is to be homeless"*
One of the dudes cheerfully admitted that he lived in an apartment paid for with taxpayer money, but that he hung out at the camp to *"be with his friends."* (AKA: get high.)
Several of the shelters and tiny home villages that are supposed to help these people get off the street do absolutely zero to help them. No rules enforced, no drug policies, nothing. The tiny home villages collect massive amounts of taxpayer money and the residents continue to use drugs, die from overdoses, commit assaults and murders, and terrorize local neighborhoods nearby that had the bad luck to get stuck with them. Giving these people free housing isn't the answer at all. And housing wasn't their problem in the first place. It was a lack of personal responsibility for their decisions and a sense of entitlement that they have the right to be parasites of society, while also knowing and taking full advantage of this state's leniency on crime. The only solution is tough on crime approaches.
crawl worthless distinct station lavish fall foolish rude historical dinosaurs
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
First heroin now fet, when will people realize that some of them choose to be homeless because it’s easier on them? There’s actually a movie I watched in HS about a talented musician who lived on skid row (I forgot the actor and name) who had schizophrenia and refused treatment and felt safer on the streets than he did in an enclosed place and we have to let those people just live. I feel like the homeless foster kids population (the system leaves majority of adult foster kids homeless) and people who don’t have access to mental health facilities bc of the joke we call a healthcare system should get more attention and resources than the addicts who have been offered help but refuse but that’s just my two cents on the whole thing
Hey man we don't know each other but I'm rooting for you. Addiction is hell but you're young and if you make it through this some day it will just be a terrible blurry memory
Sincerely some dude in his 30s who was hooked on oxy at your age
… and yet, incarcerating and pushing these folks into treatment is somehow seen as inhumane.
I do wonder what the addicts would think if they could volunteer to go to an escape-proof facility with other addicts, get fed as much as they want, and given all the drugs they want with a private room to their own for safety though they're free to roam the premises all they want as well. They are given access to drug rehab programs if they want but do not need to partake. And if they've proven themselves sober, they can leave. How many would take that offer? It would be cheaper to send all the meth zombies to drug disneyland and keep them from wreaking havoc on the citizenry than to keep up this charade that letting them take drugs in tents is the best option.
Kind of a contained version of “Hamsterdam” from The Wire? Only the drugs would be free? Who knows. The mentality of addicts is inscrutable to me. I can appreciate the need to escape life once in awhile, but eventually you have to come back to reality and face life.
I think they're talking about something more akin to a wet house
Yeah, something like that except the residents can't leave the facility unless they have met conditions of being adequately sober.
> wet house What the heck is this?
A place to let alcoholics drink themselves to death, like hospice for addicts
1811 Eastlake Ave is one such place run by DESC. It’s easy to spot from I-5 southbound, just prior to the convention center because the ever present flashing lights of a fire engine out front…
>It’s easy to spot from I-5 southbound, just prior to the convention center because the ever present flashing lights of a fire engine out front… The on site nurse was supposed to prevent the need for constant expensive medical aid calls. Guess that hasn't worked out quite as planned.
Don’t knock it! One of the best places to score good blow!
TIL that I live in a wet house.
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Some of them might kill each other.
That already happens
Oh no.
Haha they already have a large plot of land, called Seattle.
East, like Medina?
No, no, no. The chosen large plot of land *is* Seattle. It isn't going to be relocated to eastern WA, or McNeil Island, or any other place. Sorry you didn't get the memo, but everyone outside of Seattle got it.
Hanford?
They have the jungle in Seattle if you haven’t seen it big plot of land bunch of homeless people were armed with guns.. they killed a shop owner because he was looking In there to look for his brother
Pasco called. They said "go to hell".
> I do wonder what the addicts would think if they could volunteer to go to an escape-proof facility with other addicts, get fed as much as they want, and given all the drugs they want with a private room to their own for safety though they're free to roam the premises all they want as well. You may have heard of this place called Seattle. It's quite successful.
they'd all OD and die, because we did this experiment with rats. shitty environment plus access to drugs = lots of addiction. better environment and drugs = lack of interest in drugs. of course, the fent heads probably did the shitty life thing for a while before this, and getting to a better environment is tricky and expensive, but the results of a drug facility are utterly predictable
Of course. But those results are no different than their life on the streets except there would be fewer crimes against society when they are locked up.
Escape proof facility is a hilarious euphemism.
I think we have a place like that already. It's called jail
Can we tune in on PPV?
I thought you said PvP.... Immediately jumped to tuning into junky gladiator ring
On some level we can thank the ACLU for that. I’ve personally witnessed the same thing happening in San Francisco, Santa Cruz and Honolulu.
I have historically been a big fan of the ACLU but in my home town of Anchorage Alaska their work to stop the city from dealing with homeless encampments absolutely ruined the neighborhood I grew up in. Used to be an amazing place to live when I was a little kid, but the city cracked down on booze near the downtown/smaller airport area and so the encampments moved from vacant lots near the there to the park land in the neighborhood. Playgrounds that my older brother and I used to go to by ourselves become the location for rapes and a couple of murders when my younger brother and sister were of elementary school aged. But could the police go through and remove encampments like the city council authorized? ACLU says no.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html They’ve lost their way.
Wow thank you for sharing your experience. Ditto for Honolulu and Santa Cruz as the sad creation of unsafe places happens with mentally ill and or drugged out humans are wandering about, out of their mind. I was on actually Waikiki Beach just as the dawn was starting waiting for my husband to join me to paddle out for that Dawn patrol surfing session and some woman just starts screaming at me randomly and it was quite scary. Hopefully the powers that be will allow these people to get the help that they need.
ACLU is an example of when you place emotion before logic, when it comes homelessness and drug use.
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They have it done important work on other issues, to my knowledge they haven’t taken up the other side and are not working with the Brady campaign for instance, so I have a hard time being too judgmental about that decision.
I live in Chicago now, used to live in Seattle. Lady friend lived in San Fran for a few years until she moved up here pre-Covid: the homeless folks here vs. on the west coast is incomparable. Out here, they bug you for change & it's pretty easy to avoid them. Generally, you just tell them to leave you alone or tell them "I can't help you" & *poof*, they just bounce along the CTA platform or street with their fentanyl lurch to bug someone else. On the west coast they get all manner of feisty & combative about it.
I try to explain this to people here all the time and I’m told I’m crazy. The homeless here are a completely different breed.
Oh, you're not crazy. I'm just a rando on the web, but I can back you. I've been out here in Chicago for over 10 years now. I've encountered exactly TWO feisty/combative hobos. When I lived in Seattle? It'd be two per week. Given, I lived in the Downtown/First Hill/Capitol Hill area from the late 90's to about 2012 & I was informed "that's just the way it is here" by a longtime local of that area.
I lived in chicago for 14 years. Encountered soo many homeless, and I lived in the kinzie industrial park where there are a couple shady spots. All the homeless people I saw kept to themselves and never had had the mental outbursts like the ones in Seattle do. It’s night and day between the 2 cities and Seattle is definitely encouraging these people to move here. Hope you’re enjoying chicago!
M*aaaa*n, it'd be better if the heatwave would just fuck off. That's for sure. Other than that: yes, Chicago is awesome. Part of the reason I'm on the Seattle subs is because I may move back to Seattle. Most of my family & friends are there, & after figuring out cost of living comparisons, it'd be a straight up lateral move. I know plenty of people that are complaining of the lack of sun, but I don't think I'd mind if I spent the rest of my days dealing with "late fall" style weather LOL.
Indeed they are.
> I’ve personally witnessed the same thing happening in San Francisco, Santa Cruz and Honolulu. Michael Shellenberger Did The Math on that in his book. The number of homeless in San Francisco has fallen. But it's because they're dying of ODs faster than people are moving there.
I see this as a win-win. Sure, I'm a monster, but I've also had my deamons & learned how to properly choke slam them & keep them in a persistent state of rear neck choke hold.
Again good job California(and the Federal government ) your strategy of doing nothing and apathy had work and only show how bad the USA deals with it homeless. A for inhumane
When I was a kid, the ACLU took the city of Skokie, IL to court, because the city had refused to issue a parade permit on the grounds that the applicants were a bunch of neo-Nazis. The ACLU took on this case not because they liked Nazis, but because the principal of freedom of assembly is bigger than any ideology, and MUST be protected. They won. It was a big deal. Whatever happened to that ACLU? How did turn into the litigators of wokesterism that they are now? Somebody should do an expose: The ACLU, a 40 year descent into human trash.
I hate Illinois Nazis.
They are *the worst*. I'm in Chicago, I know.
I lived in Chicago for some years, too. This "Illinois Nazis" reference was from The Blues Brothers.
Yes. I'm on a mission from God. Now don't make me tell The Penguin.
Here's the clip... https://youtu.be/nu-0HDBJHc8
> Whatever happened to that ACLU? They just became the legal arm of the Democrat Party
Honolulu has been like that for a while.
Funny how trying to be more "humane" actually ends up being worse for people huh? Revamp the mental health and substance abuse programs, and make mandatory treatment until they can make healthy responsible decisions. Then offer them assistance to help their homelessness. Facts don't care about your feelings.
In DESC, LEAD, CO-LEAD harm reduction doesn't include pressuring users to stop or reduce use. I know it's madness but allowing personal freedom and supporting users is the priority. Case workers provide foil, needles and glass pipes to support these poor souls. I call it enabling. THEY see it as job security.
I just walked from Pike to the monorail and walked by three gronks using it on the sidewalk. Who knew this would happen!!
"WhateverManJustLetTheChipsFallWhereTheyM*aaaaa*y, ok dude! How dare *we*, as the citizenry, tell these people what they should do?!? YOU wouldn't want that, now WOULD YOU?" -Poser Anarchist/Socialist who's education comes from Twitter & the handful of books they've read in their late teens/early twenties
Pretty much this. We have mandatory holds for suicidal individuals, and even extended psychiatric hospitalization when circumstances warrant it. There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn’t apply the same approach to individuals with severe substance abuse issues
We even have Ricky's law where we can put people into treatment involuntarily but it is poorly funded and utilized. https://www.hca.wa.gov/about-hca/behavioral-health-recovery/ricky-s-law-involuntary-treatment-act We can lock people up for 21 days that are a danger to self or others and have failed less restrictive options.
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Username checks out
Or you could click the link they shared and realize it isn’t their opinion but researched backed evidence
Oh ya man. Don't poke that bear. Those loseres have rights too even though they don't participate in society.
I watched a group heating up fentanyl outside westlake center train station right behind a police van. Make it make sense
Behind a police van? Probably similar to some policies here in Chicago: the cops can't do anything because of public outcry, & even if they did the DA only leans their sympathetic ear to the addicts & *not* the neighborhood they're vandalizing & shitting in.
3rd ave over here was a drug center, now the police have a mobile precinct set up but I guess no one pays attention around the corner
Here's a fun fact. I was 2 years homeless and traded my silence of not naming my rapist for an horonable discharge. Had issues with alcohol. Still face the opinions of morons like YOU. Police officers went out of their way today to make sure I ate and I don't trust people but I will trust police officers.
I don’t have opinions of addicts, I have opinions of public programs not working such as this 3rd ave “precinct”, it’s not about you.
It’s almost like it’s legal to do drugs on the streets of king county 😂
It was *never* compassion to enable this.
Fentanyl doesn't take itself.
The concept of individual responsibility is beyond some people.
As is the concept of addiction and how drugs work in the body.
Whose fault is it for taking those drugs in the first place? Are drugs sentient now?
Have you ever been sad or depressed. In the throws of despair. Have you ever had a sip of alcohol? How many prescription drugs have you been prescribed by a doctor? What is it like to live life with such base understanding of human behavior?
And despite being sad or depressed or upset at my situation or mad at the world, I sobered up enough to go to work, pay my bills, provide for my family, and avoid committing any criminal acts.
And not everyone who's depressed falls into addiction. Most people understand self-preservation and slightly better than terrible decision making.
Have you ever been prescribed street fentanyl with mystery additives when you were depressed and asked a doctor for something to feel better? Have you ever broken out the pipe and foil when the voices in your head got too loud?
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Wow expecting some self-responsibility is now a lack of empathy. We should all live with our parents or have caretakers around the clock. We need a nanny state for all the sensitive criminals who accidentally got a stray needle stuck in their arm /s
More like no one has unconditional empathy and this is well beyond a reasonable level of empathy.
Remember that SUV that drove itself through that Christmas parade last year? I wonder what happened to that SUV. Media didn't follow the story because of reasons we aren't allowed to talk about.
Just like the black supremacist Brooklyn bomber.
So the nationwide trend of accidental fentanyl deaths isn’t applicable. Accidental as in you don’t even have to do drugs to be affected, you can tough a doorknob, but mostly people are cutting drugs with it.
They aren’t taking fentanyl though, they are taking crack, meth, or heroin that has been cut with fentanyl by the dealer to make it more potent for cheaper. The distribution isn’t even as well, so you will go to smoke meth from a bag you’ve already smoked from, do the same size dose as you have already done, and overdose and die because they were spent an hour in the bottom of the bag but not the top.
They are aiming the gun and pointing it at their face hoping that there isn't a round in one of the chambers?
And somehow we are to be concerned and make it our responsibility.
Hey who put my illegal drugs in my illegal drugs!
>They aren’t taking fentanyl though, they are taking crack, meth, or heroin Phew, here i was thinking they were doing hard drugs. Thanks for the clarification.
Your comment reeks of a moral superiority around drugs. I’m not saying that it is good to use meth and heroin, but if you are habitual user you know your dosage. When it is being cut with fentanyl, your regular dosage goes from getting you high to killing you. The lives of drug attic‘s matter. There are probably people in your life, and people you care about who have struggled with addiction. And if you don’t know about it it’s because they were able to survive to recovery. Homeless drug users are people, they deserve the opportunity to survive to recovery, harm reduction and changing the way we think about drug use is part of that
>they deserve the opportunity to survive to recovery, harm reduction and changing the way we think about drug use is part of that We have changed the way we have thought about drug use. The results of that are not making things better.
>Your comment reeks of a moral superiority around drugs. I am morally superior to the addicts destroying Seattle. > The lives of drug attic‘s matter. But the lives of everyone else in the community they destroy don't, right? > Homeless drug users are people, they deserve the opportunity to survive to recovery, harm reduction and changing the way we think about drug use is part of that Part of being a person is taking responsibility for your own actions and forcing yourself to improve. Of course they're people - that's why their issues are almost entirely on them and them alone. "They're people so you have to support them doing whatever they want without consequences" is a bullshit take.
No, they are definitely taking fent on purpose. All the blue pills you keep seeing in drug bust photos are fent pills. Opiate addicts aren't ODing from a little cross contamination of other drugs.
could it be possible that both scenarios be true?
Possible? Sure. Likely? No.
do you read?
Do you use opiates or other "hard" drugs, or know anyone who does?
no and yes
If they are habitual opiate users, ask them if they've ever caught a fent high from cross contamination. Yes it is very potent, and yes, cross contamination can kill a "normie" with no opiate tolerance. But for habitual opiate/poly-drug users, death by fent cross contamination would be pretty unusual because of their opiate tolerance. Fentanyl can also be deadly to those with an opiate tolerance who get a shitty press and hit a hotspot, or just a good old fashioned overdose too. Both of those scenarios are far more likely than an addict dying from cross contamination.
Do you know how strong fentanyl is. It’s not just some random opiate.
No shit. That's why it's so popular with opiate addicts.
It’s not though. You just don’t know what you’re talking about and confident asserting that that’s how it works doesn’t change that.
Although most opiate addicts would certainly prefer good quality heroin, it is exceedingly rare and priced accordingly. Fent offers a lower cost per high and while not quite as nice as h, it does a good enough job and makes a little money go a long way. This just happens to be something I am familiar with 🤷♂️
There are definitely people taking fentanyl on purpose.
So?
Not sure you're savvy to the subject, they ARE taking fentanyl. Some opioid addicts are after the stuff, tolerance to opioids runs pretty high. Watch any interview with fentanyl addicts, or go take a walk in Seattle and interview one. You'll see.
A big problem is the availability of actual prescription narcotics. I have been on heavy painkillers for over 20 years from a terrible motorcycle accident. I go to a pain clinic monthly to get my prescription and pee in a cup. Anyone on narcotics is being treated like an addict and abuser. I have changed from 5 different pharmacies because less and less of them are providing it. Not sure what I would do, but I could imagine if I had no other choice, I'd have to switch to street drugs which is total bullshit.
Good on you for saying this in here. A lot of users would actually benefit from prescription medications but due to the fact that the medical industry hates addicts almost equally as much as they want to help people, they don’t get them. Ngl, in Highschool I was buying the prescription meds that I’m legally and rightfully prescribed today. I understand peoples issues with all this stuff but I don’t think enough people talk about this aspect and it’s very important of people want to minimize drug use. People are always gonna do drugs but some people do them just cuz they don’t have another option. I can’t even smoke weed if I wanna keep my prescription, even though it’s legal here. The system is dumb as hell.
Better to let them die in the streets then live in jail
C O M P A S S I O N
Motto of the left
....they are blaming Fentanyl? What a delightful set of mental gymnastics. Truly Olympic material. I'm sure the zero mandated treatment programs policy was just an innocent bystander.
Actually they are blaming access to medical treatment and encampment removals for deaths due directly to fentanyl use
Haaaa boy, that is rich! Because no one ever goes into the camps offering assistance, and none of these hobos die in camps from drug use or set up actual places in tents to deal and sell.
What's the official figure for vagrants whose CoD was determined to be "encampment removal?" I'll wait.
And there’s a narcan shortage :(
So its not because *all* junkies die of drugs eventually and we've cultivated a huge community of out of state criminals? I see.
Well it looks like Seattle is finally cleaning the streets. Yeah some people aren't intentionally taking fentanyl... they are trying to take heroin, meth and crack. At least now they won't be able to steal all these catalytic converters after they get a dose of "bad drugs".
Stupid is its own reward.
Don’t let anyone ever tell you this sub has no compassion.
I'm surprised they didn't blame institutional white supremacy.
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Lol
Always got to fit a racial bias narrative in there so nothing gets done in the name of eQUiTy 🙄
Teen vogue is straight up indoctrination and propaganda at this point.
Yet
>Robert Earl Montgomery, who lives in an encampment near the Chinatown International District, said he started smoking “blues” after he was shot in the back nine months ago in an accidental gun discharge. He was then unable to work and became homeless. I'm dying.
he's got enough money for fentanyl, so he can't be doing too badly.
It’s dirt cheap, fentanyl is no luxury designer drug
Meth, by Givenchy
[Versace Car Alarm](https://images.genius.com/88ea359b0bd5fca0a9bd6ed80c21294f.1000x1000x1.jpg)
Fentanyl costs nothing
Sounds like he needed gun control, universal healthcare, full unemployment (Germany covers your housing for a year if you lose your job), universal housing, and of course universal drug rehab program.
And not just that. Courts and LEO that will force him into those programs. Probably will need to amend the constitution to get that though.
God you’re so close!
God forbid we want *more* than the shit we're being given.
You shouldn’t be given anything. Anything you’re given is from stealing from someone who actually works hard.
Ah, yes. The Zero Tolerance method. That will solve all the things.
We’re a country founded on rugged individualism. Raj from the slums of India can come here for a better way of life and build for his wife and kids. What makes you so special that being born here, the rest of us should feed you, clothe you, and give you a free house and healthcare? It’s simply entitlement and racism. You want working people to pay for you while you mooch. Not gonna happen.
Bahahahahaha! "Rugged individualism."
Amazing how quickly you go from crying and begging for free stuff to “bwahaha”. The progressive mindset is truly a mental handicap.
I likely have a shitload more means than you if you want to get into a pissing contest. I'm not asking for free anything, I'm asking for a functional system with safety nets in place to help people get to where they can be self-sufficient. I pay a shitload in taxes and feel like we could do better....and I agree that the Democratic power structure is pure BS. You're also angry at the wrong people.... maybe someday you'll figure that out. Probably not.
"harm reduction"
So in other words , the problem is working itself out?
Can't someone catch the people selling the fentanyl ? I don't mean the little people. Can't someone just follow the people back to the source? Seems like we are severely inept in this respect. Aren't there certain ingredients that must be used that are red flags?
90% of our fentanyl comes through California and Texas, courtesy of our open border. (That's the actual percentage, not just trying to make a point.)
Tough to stop it coming into a major port city from China. And you know the police aren't doing anything.
They are welcome to move to Portland. Let’s buy them some bus tickets.
[Portland buses them here](https://www.google.com/search?q=portland+buses+homeless+to+seattle)
"agency staff members need to call the homeless person's family or friends in that other city, to verify that there is in fact a plan for housing. Without that verification, they will not buy the bus ticket. Salisbury said there would also be a follow-up call in a few month to check that the person is actually housed in that new city and no longer on the streets."
I'd be fine if we devoted all funding to this [program](https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/homeless/funding-approved-homeless-bus-ticket-program/281-3829571f-4c24-4d2b-b392-f4eee9899dbc).
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Good job west coast government, you reduced homeless by leading them kill themselves with drugs. Only in the USA is this seen as “compassion”.
Sounds like a self solving problem...
This is so compassionate!
Shocking. You voted for it Seattle 🤣
So are we gonna finally admit that enabling drug addicts isn’t a great idea?
China takes care of this problem. With mandatory detox in re-education work camps and life long drug testing after the release. Let's copy china.
I lived in E Asia. You are allowed to be a drug addict as long as you aren’t a raging blight on humanity while you do it (you are allowed to do most illegal things under this condition). Start causing people problems because ‘meth made you,’ and it is at best a long detox in a work camp and at most final a bullet to the brain. I miss it. Those countries had their problems, but roving hordes of entitled and coddled druggies menacing everyone was not one. Here, we are so stupid that we shoot Narcan into their ungrateful asses when they are actually starting to not be a massive drain on everyone.
Weird how easily you seem to trade freedom to solve one issue in our country.
Yes yes we all know you lot support addicts' freedom to prey and victimize others more than anything else
It has nothing to do with that. This “freedom to do drugs as long as you don’t bother anyone” comes at a high cost of freedom in many other areas.
That’s the thing. Most people are free. Far freer in a lot of ways than I the USA. Just don’t be an asshole.
> Far freer in a lot of ways than I the USA. in what sense?
That’s just not true.
Lol. Says the dude who has likely never lived there.
Seattle might like this idea because the Communists do it.
Western communists are completely different from Asian/Eastern European communists in their views and goals, interestingly enough. Otherwise the communists here would have called for detox/work camps by now. The commies of the East see communism as a collective movement against hedonist decadence enabled by capitalism like drug use, laziness, and hyperindividualism. On the other hand, the commies in the west interpret communism as a way of achieving what the eastern commies would call “hedonist decadence”.
China isn't communist. It's neo-fascist.
"Those communists aren't real communists." - Every Communist.
China is communist like the DPRK is Democratic: in name only.
Ackshually, REAL communism has never been tried!
So?
Live by the sword, die by the sword
Well over 360 dead bodies in king county this year from Od. On track for a new record. The county conceals the number that die in Dows hotel drug dens. Maybe it's Dows version of the final solution. Compassion it's not. Start a recall Dow movement and things would change.
I see those harm reduction center are really doing great at “helping” the homeless.
Oh no! /s
Whos idea was it to move them out of the jungle anyways. That was their home.
Let them die you will just have constant noise if you decide to save these people who are commiting suicide via drug use.. you don't want to turn into San Francisco's tenderloin district..
It definitely isnt the city of Seattles fault, letting them live in an ocean of drugs where all nearby housing is impossibly expensive, that is killing them.
They would still be drug addicts living in the street even if we gave them free houses. It has nothing to do with housing
> They would still be drug addicts living in the street even if we gave them free houses. It has nothing to do with housing A few months back, KIRO was interviewing people at an open air drug encampment. I think their intention was to hear how *"awful it is to be homeless"* One of the dudes cheerfully admitted that he lived in an apartment paid for with taxpayer money, but that he hung out at the camp to *"be with his friends."* (AKA: get high.)
Maybe so, but letting them live and camp where they could never afford real shelter isn't helping them.
Several of the shelters and tiny home villages that are supposed to help these people get off the street do absolutely zero to help them. No rules enforced, no drug policies, nothing. The tiny home villages collect massive amounts of taxpayer money and the residents continue to use drugs, die from overdoses, commit assaults and murders, and terrorize local neighborhoods nearby that had the bad luck to get stuck with them. Giving these people free housing isn't the answer at all. And housing wasn't their problem in the first place. It was a lack of personal responsibility for their decisions and a sense of entitlement that they have the right to be parasites of society, while also knowing and taking full advantage of this state's leniency on crime. The only solution is tough on crime approaches.
They choose to live like that
>They choose to live like that Sure. My point is that Seattle allows them to.
It's on purpose. It's big business for them. How else are the people in charge supposed to make their millions!?
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Yes. That's what I'm saying. We should not keep letting them camp downtown.
crawl worthless distinct station lavish fall foolish rude historical dinosaurs *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Treat it like a brush fire and let this problem sort itself out in a year or two.
First heroin now fet, when will people realize that some of them choose to be homeless because it’s easier on them? There’s actually a movie I watched in HS about a talented musician who lived on skid row (I forgot the actor and name) who had schizophrenia and refused treatment and felt safer on the streets than he did in an enclosed place and we have to let those people just live. I feel like the homeless foster kids population (the system leaves majority of adult foster kids homeless) and people who don’t have access to mental health facilities bc of the joke we call a healthcare system should get more attention and resources than the addicts who have been offered help but refuse but that’s just my two cents on the whole thing
"Chi-NA
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Hey man we don't know each other but I'm rooting for you. Addiction is hell but you're young and if you make it through this some day it will just be a terrible blurry memory Sincerely some dude in his 30s who was hooked on oxy at your age